Having just joined your group I am interested in any information
about Classes FD, L, LV and SO Steam Locomotives. I have been unable
so far to find technical information about them and their connection
with American practise and the eventual purchase by the Chinese of
1000 FD's.
can anyone help or point me in the right direction?

David Huntbatch

On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 03:31:16PM -0000, David Huntbatch wrote:
> Having just joined your group I am interested in any information
> about Classes FD, L, LV and SO Steam Locomotives. I have been unable
> so far to find technical information about them and their connection
> with American practise and the eventual purchase by the Chinese of
> 1000 FD's.
> can anyone help or point me in the right direction?

Welcome, David.

The parameters of all Russian and Soviet steam locomotives are listed
in the book "Our Steam Locomotives" written by A. Rakov (in
Russian). I could not find those chapters from the book anywhere
on-line, but I have a hardcopy. If you read Russian, I can copy you
the pages of interest.

--
Dmitry Zinoviev, Assistant Professor
Mathematics & Computer Science Department, Suffolk University, Boston
This is an object-oriented system. If we change anything, the users object.

--- In 5feet@yahoogroups.com, Dmitry Zinoviev <dimych@r...> wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 03:31:16PM -0000, David Huntbatch wrote:
> > Having just joined your group I am interested in any information
> > about Classes FD, L, LV and SO Steam Locomotives. I have been
unable
> > so far to find technical information about them and their
connection
> > with American practise and the eventual purchase by the Chinese
of
> > 1000 FD's.
> > can anyone help or point me in the right direction?
>
> Welcome, David.
>
> The parameters of all Russian and Soviet steam locomotives are
listed
> in the book "Our Steam Locomotives" written by A. Rakov (in
> Russian). I could not find those chapters from the book anywhere
> on-line, but I have a hardcopy. If you read Russian, I can copy you
> the pages of interest.
>
> --
> Dmitry Zinoviev, Assistant Professor
> Mathematics & Computer Science Department, Suffolk University,
Boston
> This is an object-oriented system. If we change anything, the
users object.

   I have just brought a book called Paravoz Vol 2 by Keith Chester
which mentions the work of Lomonosov & the P38 project.
  Jeff

What about "Soviet Locomotive types,the union legacy" from Heywood &
Button, Published by Frank Stenvalls Forlag, ISBN 91-7266-132-1


Cheers, Theijs

Many thanks for your help gentlemen,
I am aware of the Rakhov work, but regret I do not read Russian, I can just
about follow the Cyrillic alphabet.
I now have a contact here in the U.K. who has the Rakhov book and he too has
offered to translate the interesting passages. I've arranged lunch with him in
January (first available date)
The Heywood and Button book seems to be available from Amazon, can you advise
if it covers the Classes I'm interested in - L, LV, SO, FD etc?
The Keith Chester trilogy I have and they are very interesting reading. What
they don't cover are the above classes.
Should I buy the H & B book?

David Huntbatch


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

English books about Russian locos
Apart from the excellent,and most recent,"Soviet Loco Types"The Union Legacy by
Heywood and Button,published in Bradford 1994 there also is :-
Soviet Railways To-day by J.N.Westwood,Ian Allen London 1963
Russian Steam Locos by HM LeFleming,David and Charles,Newton Abbot 1972
and from the person who must have wrote the book under undesireable
conditions,in the series of "Studies in Soviet History and Society" we have ,of
course,
J.N.Westwoods"Soviet Loco Technology During Industrialization"by Macmillan
Press/University of Birmingham,1982 and a load of booklets written after WW11
mainly by army personel who had served on such as the Persia/Russia oil
trains,but thats another story, I hope the above helps
Wishes
howard

5feet@yahoogroups.com wrote:

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------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are 4 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Russian Steam Locomotive Classes
From: "David Huntbatch"
2. Re: Russian Steam Locomotive Classes
From: Dmitry Zinoviev
3. Re: Russian Steam Locomotive Classes
From: "jebounds"
4. Re: Russian Steam Locomotive Classes
From: Theijs van Welij


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 15:31:16 -0000
From: "David Huntbatch"
Subject: Russian Steam Locomotive Classes

Having just joined your group I am interested in any information
about Classes FD, L, LV and SO Steam Locomotives. I have been unable
so far to find technical information about them and their connection
with American practise and the eventual purchase by the Chinese of
1000 FD's.
can anyone help or point me in the right direction?

David Huntbatch




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:07:34 -0500
From: Dmitry Zinoviev
Subject: Re: Russian Steam Locomotive Classes

On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 03:31:16PM -0000, David Huntbatch wrote:
> Having just joined your group I am interested in any information
> about Classes FD, L, LV and SO Steam Locomotives. I have been unable
> so far to find technical information about them and their connection
> with American practise and the eventual purchase by the Chinese of
> 1000 FD's.
> can anyone help or point me in the right direction?

Welcome, David.

The parameters of all Russian and Soviet steam locomotives are listed
in the book "Our Steam Locomotives" written by A. Rakov (in
Russian). I could not find those chapters from the book anywhere
on-line, but I have a hardcopy. If you read Russian, I can copy you
the pages of interest.

--
Dmitry Zinoviev, Assistant Professor
Mathematics & Computer Science Department, Suffolk University, Boston
This is an object-oriented system. If we change anything, the users object.


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 11:42:21 -0000
From: "jebounds"
Subject: Re: Russian Steam Locomotive Classes

--- In 5feet@yahoogroups.com, Dmitry Zinoviev wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 03:31:16PM -0000, David Huntbatch wrote:
> > Having just joined your group I am interested in any information
> > about Classes FD, L, LV and SO Steam Locomotives. I have been
unable
> > so far to find technical information about them and their
connection
> > with American practise and the eventual purchase by the Chinese
of
> > 1000 FD's.
> > can anyone help or point me in the right direction?
>
> Welcome, David.
>
> The parameters of all Russian and Soviet steam locomotives are
listed
> in the book "Our Steam Locomotives" written by A. Rakov (in
> Russian). I could not find those chapters from the book anywhere
> on-line, but I have a hardcopy. If you read Russian, I can copy you
> the pages of interest.
>
> --
> Dmitry Zinoviev, Assistant Professor
> Mathematics & Computer Science Department, Suffolk University,
Boston
> This is an object-oriented system. If we change anything, the
users object.

I have just brought a book called Paravoz Vol 2 by Keith Chester
which mentions the work of Lomonosov & the P38 project.
Jeff



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 12:47:28 +0100
From: Theijs van Welij
Subject: Re: Russian Steam Locomotive Classes

What about "Soviet Locomotive types,the union legacy" from Heywood &
Button, Published by Frank Stenvalls Forlag, ISBN 91-7266-132-1


Cheers, Theijs



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



Best Wishes
Howard

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Many thanks Howard I'll try and chase some of these books down.

David Huntbatch


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Aside from the books already referred to, there is a German
translation of the Rakov book ("Russische und sowjetische
Dampflokomotiven"), which may be more accessible to those of us who
take ages to transliterate (let alone translate) cyrillic.

Heywood & Burton contains brief biographical notes for each class of
5-foot gauge locomotive extant at the break up of the USSR.  It may
not go into the detailed anaysis you require, but is highly
recommended as an overview of the SZD fleet.

Gentlemen,
I have found available on the Internet a book by Fleming and Price entitled
Russian Staem Locomotives for $40. Is this a good source of information? Anyway
I hope so because I have ordered it by mail order!

David Huntbatch


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear David,

At 06:08 AM 12/4/2003, you wrote:

>Gentlemen,
>I have found available on the Internet a book by Fleming and Price entitled
>Russian Staem Locomotives for $40. Is this a good source of information?
>Anyway
>I hope so because I have ordered it by mail order!
>
>David Huntbatch

That is a very good book, but it is comparatively somewhat scarce on
technical data.  It profiles many types of steam locomotives, but it is a
product of its era (the 1960's), so it speaks to the history of the
locomotive types and gives what info the authors were able to glean from
their trips and then-available sources (numbers, spotting data, some basic
measurements, etc.).  The book has a more narrative style than most of its
ilk, but there is an interesting selection of black & white photo plates at
the end.  It's certainly a good book, and an enjoyable read, but if you
really want to wallow in the minutiae of technical information, Rakov is
your man.

Even if one doesn't read Russian the Rakov books can be quite useful.  I
soon found that with the help of a dictionary, one can build up a decent
technical vocabulary in a surprisingly short amount of time when properly
motivated.  The numerous photos and schematics in the Rakov books were
sufficient motivation for me. :)

The Heywood, Buttons book "Soviet Locomotive Types: The Union Legacy" is an
excellent book as well, which has some decent data about the various
locomotive types.  I've pretty much worn my copy out.  It does not contain
detail to the point of speaking to comparisons of Soviet and American
locomotive building practices, but it's a handy quick guide to the types
that were active at the end of the Soviet era and it does contain info
about the classes you asked about.

Best regards,

James

Thanks James for a very considered answer to my question. I am greatly
looking forward to reading Fleming and Price which I am sure will add to my
knowledge of Russian Classes. I am hoping to have sight of the Rakhov book in
January
which clearly is the holy grail.
Besides my general interest in any steam locomotives world-wide I am
preparing for a New Year visit to the Ukraine with the Dzherelo train and will
be
making a film to add to my video and DVD portfolio.

David Huntbatch


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject: Estonian news from December 3, 2003

Efficiency price
Bisnes Sreda, December 3, 2003
New Railway Act appeared in November this year would not significantly
impact the competitiveness of AS Eesti Raudtee.
Moreover, EVR specialists are sure that final assessments and forecasts
related to the Act passed by the Riigikogu are subject to detailed analysis.
“Now it’s difficult to say anything. Everything should be analyzed more
elaborately. As for our position in respect of competitiveness, we are
always for competition; we are always for efficiency. Here we have no
problems. Another thing is when it’s a political issue. I personally don’t
believe that administrative methods can make a private owned company more
efficient”, stressed AS Eesti Raudtee Deputy Managing Director Riivo
Sinijärv in his interview for our paper.
Redundancy plan
By the end of this year further reduction of AS Eesti Raudtee staff is
planned. This measure, which was planned and approved by the trade unions,
has, according to the Deputy Managing Director, a specific meaning and a
very important feature.
“This important feature is the fact that specialists who are made redundant,
will be able to receive compensation from Töötuskindlustus Fond
(Unemployment Fund- tr.). It allows them receiving dole after being
registered as an unemployed till the moment they find a new job”, confirmed
Riivo Sinijärv in his interview.
As for Transportation Service, here, the redundancy plan was determined by
EVR privatization agreement – considers Transportation Director Sergei
Fedorenko.
“In the circumstances of hard competition with other Baltic railroads we
reduced the personnel and continue the reduction due to improvement of
technology. Under no circumstances the redundancy will impact the quality of
customer service, traffic safety and the capacity of the railroad, what is
clearly confirmed by the results of our operation. This is a normal process.
Life shows that everything is possible. We are on the way of improving
operation…” stated Sergei Fedorenko
Technological exchange
Russian railroaders started to upgrade own locomotive fleet. This caused a
great interest of specialists to the information about AS Eesti Raudtee
American locomotives’ service on the Russian territory.
“This is very good for us. Now we can openly speak about the fact that
American locomotives, purchased by Estonia, are more powerful. Russia is
upgrading its locomotive fleet and we are very happy about it, as it means
longer trains for us, it’s beneficial for our customers and business”,
admits Riivo Sinijärv.
“Currently we are actively cooperating with St.Petersburg Vitebsk departmnet
of October RR and with the management of October RR in the issues of
efficiency improvement. This is in the first turn, Krasnoshchok Anatoli
Anisimovich, Deputy Director of October RR and Valinski Oleg Sergeyevich,
Head of Vitebsk department of October RR, who personally participate in the
joint planning of train operation,” AS Eesti Raudtee Transportation Director
Sergei Fedorenko is saying.
“Planning the train operation, despite the possessions for track works, this
year we have managed to achieve the record number of trains received and
delivered between Estonian and October railroads, the fact which is
respectful”, added Sergei Fedorenko.
On November 17th- 18th specialists of October RR dispatcher staff visited
Estonia on the invitation of AS Eesti Raudtee. During the meeting issues of
further improvement of quality planning of train operation between Estonian
and October railroads were discussed as well as practical application of
more efficient cooperation technology.
“Such a meeting was organized the first time. We are very pleased that
dispatchers participated in the meeting, because they are namely the people
who directly perform and control the whole transportation process. In the
framework of the stay one meeting was held in Narva border station and one -
in Tallinn, in Pikk street, 36. The participants defined common demands and
possibilities for all major elements of transportation process: border
station operation, on line, in the terminals”, explained S.Fedorenko.
According to him, the main idea of the meeting was for both parties to
understand what is needed for quality operation planning on Estonian and
Russian side. It impacts in the first line the growth of freight volumes.
“Planning of train operation quality impacts the locomotive service
efficiency and thus the capacity of border crossings. We hope that the
meeting was a success…” stressed Fedorenko.
Before December 10th AS Eesti Raudtee is planning to start operation of a
turntable in the major EVR depot in Muuga station. The turntable provides
railroaders with an additional reserve for efficiency improvement.
Earlier railroaders had to use the triangle between Maardu-Ülemiste-Lagedi
to turn a locomotive and now it will be possible in Muuga. Operation of the
turntable will contribute in capacity improvement and saving of fuel, costs
and human resources. “As this railroad section is the busiest one, it’s
difficult to overestimate the importance of this new technology”, stated Mr.
Fedorenko.
Our cooperation with Russian colleges has helped us to achieve good results
in Petseri station too. It should be admitted that this year Petseri station
was recognized as the best border station in Russia. “We hope that there is
also a contribution of our specialists”, said Sergei Fedorenko.
Each train was waiting here for 1,5 hours to be accepted, now it is only 15
minutes. In Narva trains delays used to be about 30 minutes, now trains have
to wait about 10-12 minutes.
“Wagon cycle time is most important. The smaller number of wagons is used
for larger amount of freights, the better is railway operation, or, another
words, our operation results”, reminded Fedorenko.
Additionally, together with AS Turmoil EVR specialists are developing a new
technology for Estonia and Baltic States, according to which trains would
run straight to the terminal without stop in Maardu station. It will allow
us to save from 3 to 5 hours. The speed of consists handling between arrival
and departure will also increase significantly. Let’s take a freight train
consisting of 66 tank wagons, arriving from Kirishi to Maardu. Earlier it
stopped in Maardu and different operations were carried out with it, i.e.
technical, customs and freight services were working. Now, passing Maardu
station a train goes straight to the terminal. After unloading the train
will be formed over there and delivered directly to Narva.
Together with Eurodek, Pakterminal and BTS technology of train operation was
improved and it increased railway capacity and freight handling of Estonian
sea terminals.
Now about the competitiveness of Estonian Railroad – the theme being
actively discussed at most different levels. One example is enough. The
distance between Kirishi and Ivangorod is about 230 km. Approximately the
same distance is between Narva and Muuga. Total 450 km for both sides.
Russians need 2,5 days to make a round trip on their side and in Estonia we
make it within 1,5 days.
AS Eesti Raudtee is continuing to improve its technology for C36-7
locomotives service on the tracks of the Russian station Petseri. We have
accumulated a 6-month experience in this operation and to date no
significant remarks have been made by Russian railway services. It’s
sufficient to remind that at the last meeting with OJSC Russian Railways
where participated the first Vice President Hasyan Zyabirov, representatives
of AS Eesti Raudtee again raised the issue of increasing C-locomotives’
speed on the tracks of Petseri station.
Mutual understanding was achieved in this issue and currently documentation
is being prepared to increase the speed. “Thus, a new step has been made to
improve the capacity of the border station,” affirmed Sergei Fedorenko. We
received a proposal from October RR to consider the options of C36-7
locomotive service in two border stations Ivangorod – Sala. A joint
Estonian-Russian working group was established to find a suitable solution.
AS Eesti Raudtee results for ten months of the current year are better than
the results of 1990, when peak of freight volume was observed on Estonian
railroad.
“Nevertheless we have to admit that at that time we had no state borders,
waiting time for customs and border control; now, having all these
procedures, we show the same results, so, when somebody is saying that we
are standing – it’s not the truth”, clarified Sergei Fedorenko.
Within the last two years a big change has taken place in improvement of
coordinated operation with border stations, terminals, ports; it has allowed
Estonian railroaders to exceed the results of previous years. This is
probably, the basis of AS Eesti Raudtee competitiveness and its successful
operation in the nearest years.
AS Eesti Raudtee one day operation results in November 2003
Wagons loaded-280
incl. oil shale-90
Wagons unloaded-1937
incl. tank wagons-1388
Freight trains received-40
Narva-22
Petseri-14
Valga-4
Freight trains delivered-23
Narva-12
Petseri-10
Valga-1
Freight trains received + delivered-63
Narva-34
Petseri-24
Valga-5
Data provided by AS Eesti Raudtee

Henry Posner III wrote:

>Subject: Estonian news from December 3, 2003
>
>Efficiency price
>Bisnes Sreda, December 3, 2003
>
>Technological exchange
>Russian railroaders started to upgrade own locomotive fleet. This caused a
great interest of specialists to the information about AS Eesti Raudtee
>American locomotives’ service on the Russian territory.
>“This is very good for us. Now we can openly speak about the fact that
>American locomotives, purchased by Estonia, are more powerful. Russia is
>upgrading its locomotive fleet and we are very happy about it, as it means
longer trains for us, it’s beneficial for our customers and business”, admits
Riivo Sinijärv.
>
Twenty years ago I took part in researches of native USSR diesel
locomotives, more powerful in comparison with C36-7i's in Estonia. (4000
hp and 6000 hp), with 25 tons weight per axle. They were in a service in
Pechora depot, Severnaya railroad. IMHO,  the information about
horizontal and vertical dynamic characteristics is needed first of all,
because C36-7i got 30 tons per axle. But Eesti Raudtee still not made
any considerable dynamic researches and not published the results. (The
dynamic property data of Soviet railroad locomotives were published in
technical literature and open for scientists and experts.) Moreover, it
is impossible to find an open statistics of  breakdowns of  C36-7i in
Estonia.
  This non-transparency looks like strangeness, because Lyudinovo and
Bryansk locomotive - building works are also possible to deliver 3600-hp
diesel locomotives for RZD, they have their own projects. Maybe, results
of  tests the C36-7i in Estonia still not give the occasion for euphoria?

Best regards,
Oleg Izmerov, Bryansk, Russia.

With ref to David Huntbach's note
  Russian Steam Locos by LeFleming and Price,this was published in 3 editions
1960,1968 and 1972,I only have 1 copy so do not know what differences there is
between them,locos covered in the book are from A of 1878 to LV of 1952 with a
combi of photos,line drawings and teccie notes vis builders ,outputs,quantities
,etc.the nearest I can see and compare  to a English version of Rakow
etc5feet@yahoogroups.com wrote:

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------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are 2 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Digest Number 508/ English books/Russian locos
From: "Eddie_Barnes"
2. Re: Re: Digest Number 508/ English books/Russian locos
From: DavidHuntbatch@...


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 13:57:23 -0000
From: "Eddie_Barnes"
Subject: Re: Digest Number 508/ English books/Russian locos

Aside from the books already referred to, there is a German
translation of the Rakov book ("Russische und sowjetische
Dampflokomotiven"), which may be more accessible to those of us who
take ages to transliterate (let alone translate) cyrillic.

Heywood & Burton contains brief biographical notes for each class of
5-foot gauge locomotive extant at the break up of the USSR. It may
not go into the detailed anaysis you require, but is highly
recommended as an overview of the SZD fleet.



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:39:52 EST
From: DavidHuntbatch@...
Subject: Re: Re: Digest Number 508/ English books/Russian locos

Gentlemen,
I have found available on the Internet a book by Fleming and Price entitled
Russian Staem Locomotives for $40. Is this a good source of information? Anyway
I hope so because I have ordered it by mail order!

David Huntbatch


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



Best Wishes
Howard

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 16:41 5-12-03, you wrote:
>Subject: Estonian news from December 3, 2003
>Russian railroaders started to upgrade own locomotive fleet.

about which loco's we are talking here?

Are their actually still diesel & electricloco's built in Russia nowadays
beside the EP 1?(25 Kv)
Is the EP 200 already in production? (25Kv)
How many EP 10 have been manufactured yet? (3&25KV)
And besides the dual voltage EP 10, single  3KV elocs?

Greetings, Theijs

Howard Hookham  wrote: "Russian Steam Locos by LeFleming and Price ...
was published in 3 editions 1960,1968 and 1972, I only have 1 copy so do
not know what differences there is between them..."

I am fortunate to own both the 1960 and the 1972 Editions.  As far as I
can make out the only substantive differences between the two are that
(as stated in the 1972 'Note to this Edition') "the main text has been
updated to mid-1971, but the historical and technical data ... have been
repeated in substantially their original form".  Both have exactly the
same 77 photographic plates and both run to 112 pages of text.

If anybody is really serious about acquiring either the 1960 or the 1972
Editions (but not both from me), I see that I paid CAD$55 for each.  So
the (Orthodox) Christmas offer is CAD$55-00 / US$42-00 / Euro 35-00 /
GBP£25-00 / Roubles RUR 1,245-00 + postage (airmail recommended) for
either, but not both. Suitable HO scale Russian or Soviet Bloc railway
models or lineside structures would also be acceptable in full or part
exchange.

Mike South
Calgary, Alberta, Canada

I have now received my copy of Fleming & Price's Book bought mail order over
the Internet from Pensylvannia - it seems to be the issue from 1971 and has
given me a certain amount more information about the steam classes. Clearly the
book is based upon observations from the 1950's and so the class information
is far from complete. It seems Rakhov is the bible when it comes to
technicalities. Nevertheless I am proud to own the Fleming & Price book.
Many thanks to all of you who have responded with help and advice on this
matter.

David Huntbatch


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Oleg, to respond to your message below,
1. The comparison between the C36-7 and native USSR locos may not be fair if
the USSR locos referenced are 2 or 3 sections. Results in Estonia are that a
single C36-7 pulls more than the 2-section 2TE116s that they replaced.
2. Eesti Raudtee has studied the affect of the heavier locos and found no
significant problems based on both theoretical analysis by consultants and
operating experience with the C36-7s since their introduction in the middle
of 2002. (In some case such as bridges, speed restrictions have been put in
place until bridges have been strengthened, per the original plan).
3. Please forgive Eesti Raudtee for a bit of euphoria but results are: more
traffic handled with fewer locos; an improved safety performance; and
improved profitability despite operating in a highly competitive environment
(Estonian ports, and therefore Estonian Railways, compete with Russian,
Latvian, Lithuanian & Finnish ports).

  and Message: 1
    Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2003 13:56:35 +0300
    From: press <press@...>
Subject: Re: Estonian news from December 3, 2003
Twenty years ago I took part in researches of native USSR diesel
locomotives, more powerful in comparison with C36-7i's in Estonia. (4000
hp and 6000 hp), with 25 tons weight per axle. They were in a service in
Pechora depot, Severnaya railroad. IMHO,  the information about
horizontal and vertical dynamic characteristics is needed first of all,
because C36-7i got 30 tons per axle. But Eesti Raudtee still not made
any considerable dynamic researches and not published the results. (The
dynamic property data of Soviet railroad locomotives were published in
technical literature and open for scientists and experts.) Moreover, it
is impossible to find an open statistics of  breakdowns of  C36-7i in
Estonia.
  This non-transparency looks like strangeness, because Lyudinovo and
Bryansk locomotive - building works are also possible to deliver 3600-hp
diesel locomotives for RZD, they have their own projects. Maybe, results
of  tests the C36-7i in Estonia still not give the occasion for euphoria?

Best regards,
Oleg Izmerov, Bryansk, Russia.

Henry Posner III wrote:

>Subject: Estonian news from December 3, 2003
>
>Efficiency price
>Bisnes Sreda, December 3, 2003
>
>Technological exchange
>Russian railroaders started to upgrade own locomotive fleet. This caused a
great interest of specialists to the information about AS Eesti Raudtee
>American locomotives' service on the Russian territory.
>"This is very good for us. Now we can openly speak about the fact that
>American locomotives, purchased by Estonia, are more powerful. Russia is
>upgrading its locomotive fleet and we are very happy about it, as it means
longer trains for us, it's beneficial for our customers and business",
admits Riivo Sinijärv.
>

Hello Henry,
Henry Posner III wrote:

>1. The comparison between the C36-7 and native USSR locos may not be fair if
the USSR locos referenced are 2 or 3 sections.
>
But I wrote not about the old 2TE116 (2TE10) with 3000-hp in a section.
I wrote abour 2TE121, with total power  8000 hp in two section , or
4000-hp per each section, and about TE136, with 6000-hp engine in one
section. They were not like 2TE116, they were radically new (for 1980)
locomotives. 2TE116  looked very, very modesty in comparison with 2TE121.

>2. Eesti Raudtee has studied the affect of the heavier locos and found no
>significant problems based on both theoretical analysis by consultants and
operating experience with the C36-7s since their introduction in the middle of
2002.
>
In former USSR there was a  rule, to study this before the commercial
operations. The theoretical analysis is quite insufficient for this
problem, and the measurements of the efforts and  tensions are needed
first.  They  could to say nothing  without tensometers. I worked in
Dynamic Research Dpt. in VNITI, and this department made such
researching, too. The theory and the operation experience without the
measuremetnts is can't to give us the whole knowledge.

>3. Please forgive Eesti Raudtee for a bit of euphoria but results are: more
traffic handled with fewer locos; an improved safety performance;
>
It's not a problem, with electric traction. The electric locos are
possible to give us more traffic in comparison with diesel one, and the
Europe and Russia turned to electric traction.  The diesel traction
will serve the railroads with small traffic in Russia.

Best regards
Oleg Izmerov, Bryansk.

I apologise for the short notice, I have only just come across this book
about the Moscow Metro on e-Bay (usual disclaimers of any commercial
interest in this sale, I just thought that it might interest members of
this group)

http://cgi.netscape.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3571378413&category=\
12567&rd=1

Mike South
Calgary, Alberta, Canada

http://www.eng.mps.ru/agency/news_text.html?he_id=20&news_id=415

05.12.2003      19.10

Regular traffic through Severo-Muysky tunnel on Baykal-Amur
Railroad began on December 5.

On December 5, the head of the Russian Railways public corporation Gennady
Fadeev, the Deputy Chairman of the Government of the Russian Federation
Vladimir Yakovlev, and the President of Republic Buryatia Leonid Potapov
took part in the ceremony of grand opening of railway traffic through
Severo-Muysky tunnel on Baykal-Amur Railroad. The State Commission signed an
act of approval of the tunnel for
the operation on November 30.
Up to 6 million ton of cargo is planned to be switched from TransSib
Railroad to Baykal-Amur Railroad already in the next year. The Severo-Muysky
tunnel is the longest one in Russia (15.343 km) and is the fifth longest in
the world, while it is unique in its tunneling construction complexity
(permafrost, abundance of underwater, sloughs, collapses, and tectonic
raptures).
The opening of the Severo-Muysky tunnel is finishing the construction of
Baykal-Amur Railroad and bringing it to its full capacity. The opening of
Severo-Muysky tunnel will provide the shortest route for trains through
Baykal-Amur Railroad that will allow for considerable saving of time. The
time trains spend to arrive to their destination will reduce 6 times.
In addition, traffic through Severo-Muysky tunnel allows avoiding the use of
double hauling by switching trains from mountain detour road to main route.
The number of locomotives needed will be decreased, time of freight and
passenger shipping will be shortened significantly, and the level of traffic
safety will be raised. Next year, it is expected to switch up to 6 million
tons of freight from TransSib Railroad to Baykal-Amur Railroad.



Helmut Uttenthaler,
Graz

Hello everyone,
please welcome me to this group.
Just reading some Russian language sources, in the past few months a
local train service has started between Aldan and Tommot on the line
being constructed now between Tynda and Yakutsk. It seems that the
Nerynugri-Aldan section of this line should be fit for passenger
service by some time next year. Does anyone know of whether
construction is continuing from Tommot towards Yakutsk or not?

Regards,

John Tanini

HAPPY CHRISTMAS AND MERRY NEW YEAR!

PHOTO: FPA4 ALCO Grand Canyon Christmas train 12 December 2003

Best Wishes.

Philip

Hallo,

Merry Chrismas and a happy new year
Frohe Weihnachten und ein gutes Neujahr

Ernst van Gulden

Die Karte steht unter / The Card is found:
http://www.vangulden.nl/2003-4/Kerstwens_2003.jpg

You too!

-----Original Message-----
From: Ernst van Gulden [mailto:gulden@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2003 6:02 AM
To: 5feet; @Bahnen_In_Tschechien; Europeanrail
Subject: [5feet] Chrismas/Weihnachten


Hallo,

Merry Chrismas and a happy new year
Frohe Weihnachten und ein gutes Neujahr

Ernst van Gulden

Die Karte steht unter / The Card is found:
http://www.vangulden.nl/2003-4/Kerstwens_2003.jpg

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello,

The "Great Migration" of the "Steam Engine IS Picture Gallery", which
started is almost exactly a year ago, is finished. Altogether, more
than 3000 pics were moved from the old Gallery into the New one, so
currently there are 4031 photographs in the collection. The new
Gallery allows to search for a photograph in a certain category, with
certain keywords, taken in a certain place, on a given date, or by a
given author. In particular, it is possible to look at all the
photographs taken by one author. In a dynamically updated statistical
table, the most "productive" authors, the most "covered" regions are
listed, and the summary on years and months of the photographs and on
the months of publication is also given.

The address of the new Gallery is:

http://www.parovoz.com/newgallery/?LNG=EN

The Gallery is fully bilingual (English/Russian). Welcome to the new
Gallery!

--
Dmitry Zinoviev, Assistant Professor
Mathematics & Computer Science Department, Suffolk University, Boston
This is an object-oriented system. If we change anything, the users object.

Thank you very much for improving a website that was already very
informative. I check 5feet once a week or so and read all the messages I get.

Over two years ago I asked for, and you gave, your permission to print the
supermap section by section. I still look at it and sometimes recheck the online
maps for updates. I'm also following any comments I see on 5feet about line
extensions, particularly to Yakutsk and the progress of that.

My desire to learn the Russian language has been put aside by outside work.
Rather than enjoy a retired life, the lousy US economy has forced me into part
time work at stores last.year; but now I am involved with some former
colleagues at Conrail in a software product that helps North American railroad
shippers understand traffic flows and the railroad costs that affect their
shipping
rates. I help check routing, mileage, equipment and cost issues. That, plus
college children and an aged mother leave little time to pursue Russian railway
knowledge.

But I'm still interested and enjoy your website very much. If and when you
need a subscription fee to help maintain it; I will participate as long as it is
within the price range of annual magazine subscriptions.

Thank You Dmitry!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Does anyone know which trains are running in addition to the regular
trains over the New Year's and Christmas period in Belarus and
Ukraine and the das of operation? These trains are running "on
special order" or "facultatively".
Regards from Slovenia and a happy New Year to all.
Peter

--- In 5feet@yahoogroups.com, Ernst van Gulden <gulden@p...> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Just a simple question. Where is it possible
> to buy the tickets for the HC-electric train
> in the Ukraine.
> Suburb-Kassa or normal Kassa. Who knows more
> or has experience?

You need to ask in Suburb-Kassa if they selling tickets for the HC-
electric train, if not they will tell you where you can buy it.
Normally it's in Suburb-Kassa but not everywhere.

> An example is pointed here:
> http://railways.dp.ua/en/train/1172/
>
> Greetings,
>
> Ernst van Gulden

http://parovoz.com/gallery/20040109_Tallin_train_311203.jpg
http://parovoz.com/gallery/20040111_moskva.jpg


Why are cars of the "Rossija" (Moskva - Vladivostok) used for the train
Moskva - Tallinn???



Helmut Uttenthaler,
Graz