Thanks Kripanidhi for opening the conversation to certification again
- at some point the community may actually find enough momentum to do
something with it - let's see what happens with this leg of the journey.

In terms of certification I look first to the consumer and ask "who
are they and why would they care?" Many of the values you mention
answer these questions, but I'll get a bit more specific.

In general I've found these answers:
Who: the person with the certificate
Why: they want to have proof of accomplishment and ability the world
can easily understand, e.g., a college degree, an author, a certified
practitioner

Who: the person doing the hiring
Why: an easy proxy to distinguish one person from another during the
hiring process; an assumption is created that degrees and
certifications equal some level of understanding and mastery - e.g.,
there is a difference between a PhD and a high school diploma.

Who: the general community of certificate holders
Why: if there is only one person with the certificate, the designation
means very little and if there are too many the designation is
diluted; keeping the balance seems interestingly provocative

Given these observations I'll also add that there are two
organizational constructs that seem to go with a good certification
process and you've mentioned both in your writing:

1) the set of criteria upon which an individual is to be judged; this
is the hardest and most compelling thing an organization like APLN or
Agile Alliance could undertake but we seem reluctant to do so.
Without a set of commonly held expectations though, there will be no
agreeable certification process. What would happen if it was this
objective that we allow to percolate from the bottom up? I've got a
set of criteria, others do as well - let's set up a forum in which the
objective is to define/consolidate/and possibly test these criteria -
you should also know the DSDM group has begun this work and probably
also has something to say on the subject.

2) there needs to be an organizational umbrella, under which the
certification exists, especially if we're going to meet the needs of
the second consumer above, i.e., the person or organization doing the
hiring. Without a branded and respected organization like Agile
Alliance, APLN or something like these groups, I'm not sure the
certification process can function well and/or be meaningful to a
significant number of consumers. I'm not sure what to do with this
concern other than raise it and see what others recommend.

Hope this is good enough to keep the conversation going.

Thanks again for stepping up,

David Spann




--- In CCAgilePractioner@yahoogroups.com, "S M Kripanidhi"
<kripanidhi@...> wrote:
>
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>
> In the first message on this group, I am trying to put my raw
> thoughts in what motivated me to start this group and open it for
> discussion:
>
> Need for Certification in Agile :
>
> 1. Motivate good Agile Practitioners around the world
> 2. Recognize good Agile Practitioners around the world
> 3. Enable industry identify good Agile Practitioners in the
> market/industry.
> 4. Harvest the collective potential of good Agile Practitioners
> 5. Provide an opportunity for Agile Practitioners to collaborate,
> share and learn at all levels
> 6. Nurture and Preserve the correct understanding of the true spirit
> of Agile
> 7. Support good Agile Practitioners to Innovate and Grow.
> 8. Bring credibility and a high degree of assurance to the Agile
Community
> 9. Accelerate the ability of the Agile Community to deliver Value to
> the Industry and enable mutual growth and prosperity.
>
> How to Certify ?
>
> Agile is a set of values and principles. Agile is a mindset, a belief
> pattern, a culture, a way of doing good business with customers, a way
> of working with people in teams in the knowledge innovation industry.
> A way of creating and delivering VALUE to all stakeholders, faster,
> cheaper and better.
> How do you certify such things. But we need it for reasons enumerated
> above.
>
> Who can Certify
>
> Who better can certify a good Agile Practitioner than the Stakeholders
> involved. But is it possible. Who will coordinate and who can do it.
>
> Who better knows an Agile Practitioner other than the actual
> stakeholders (manager,customer,team,peers,community) involved with
> him. They are the best judge if the Agile Practitioner is good in
> Agile. However, the community of agile enthusiasts close to him, will
> also know him well. So I thought why not use this opportunity.
>
> Let the local Agile Community Certify that the Agile Practitioner is
> Good. And this decision can be moderated by the senior members of the
> Agile Community.
>
> This way the Local Agile Community can be held accountable for its
> decisions on Certification and this can help them learn and moderate
> their decisions in future evolutionarily. Ture Agile Style.
>
> Current International Agile Community Organization
>
> We have an Agile Alliance at the top. We have national level Agile
> Community Organizations affiliated to Agile Alliance in many
> countries. We also have Region wise local Chapters of Agile
> Evangelists. We also have city-wise Agile User Groups. This is our
> current Agile Community structure. We have informally organized
> ourselves into this structure and grown to what we are today. This is
> how open communities evolve.
>
> Having said this, we can now ask the Community to Certify good Agile
> Practitioners and keep updating their assessments over time.
>
> We can have:
>
> Community Certified Agile Practitioner (CCAP)
> Community Certified Agile Leader (CCAL)
> Community Certified Agile Trainer (CCPT)
> Community Certified Agile Coach (CCPC)
> Community Certified Agile Evangelist (CCAE)
>
> How to Certify
>
> All the above Certifications can have some QRs that the community can
> jointly derive and define that would serve the very purpose for
> certification.
>
> Example:
>
> CCAP : Min 1 yr experience on an Agile Team. (can be assessed based on
> what contribution he made to his team, to his organization, to his
> customers, to the Agile Community and to his own self development in
> this two years)
>
> CCAL : Min 1 yr experience as an Agile Leader
>
> CCAT: Min 1 yr experience as an Agile Trainer (can be assessed based
> on feedback received from CCAPs and CCALs)
>
> CCAC: Min 1 yr experience as an Agile Coach (can be assessed based on
> feedback received from stakeholders like the organization, the team,
> the customers, the community etc)
>
> CCAE: All existing and emerging thought leaders who are contributing
> to the growth of the international Agile Community and Propagating its
> Culture.
>
> All certifications can be valid for a period of one year. (The first
> year it can be called a Certificate on Probation). All certifications
> by the community should be assessed, reevaluated and renewed for the
> next year based on similar criteria.
>
> Example: Renwal of the certification can be based on his contribution
> in this year to the Agile Team, to the Organization he works for, to
> the Customers he was responsible to deliver Value, to the Agile
> Community and to how own Self development and Learning, which can be
> validated based on formal testimonials from each such stakeholders and
> a need to get a minimum satisfaction rating on each of them.
>
> Advantages of Community Certified Agile Practitioner Scheme
>
> 1. National Level Agile Organization, Regional Agile Chapters and
> Local Agile User Groups will be strengthened
> 2. This will motivate and result in imperative collaboration and
> communication in the community at all levels
> 3. Industry will benefit (easy to identify the right Agile resources)
> 4. Industry will get an assurance and will be willing to sponsor
> regional events and activities of the local Agile Associations,
> Chapters and User groups
> 5. It will ensure that the true spirit of the original Agile Values
> and Principles, will not get corrupted.
> 6. No financial implications...the communities can run only on
> donations and sponsors as they are doing now.
> 7 Agile Community can take the accountability for maintaining the
> integrity and validity of the certification and administer it (Self
> Organizing Team)
>
> How to formalize such Certification
>
> 1. Any person can apply for a CCAP, CCAL, CAPT or to a CCAC and
> request for an evaluation and certification.
>
> 2. After submitting all the details meeting the QRs to any active
> person in the Agile Community, his case can be put up to the local
> user group / regional chapter.
>
> 3. Minimum 5 members of the Agile Community with an accredited and/or
> certified status have to scrutinize and recommend the certification
> to the next entity in the organization structure who can formalize it.
>
> 4. Agile Alliance at the top level can maintain a registry of such
> Certified Agile Practitioners etc over the web with a unique
> identification. Probably also allow stakeholders and community
> members post feedback on them (the Community Certified Agile
> Practioners and others ) on an ongoing basis as a measure of
> maintaining the integrity and accountability of such certifications.
>
> 5. On any negative feedback on Community Certified Agile
> Practitioners from the industry or the community, the local body can
> investigate, suspend, cancel or revoke such certifications.
>
>
> Why did this not work with the Certification Scheme offered on Scrum
> by the Scrum Alliance ( CSMs, CSPs, CSTs)
>
> 1. It did not meet any of the "Need for Certification" criteria as
> enumerated first thing on top of this message
> 2. There is no evaluation or QR for certifying Scrum Masters. The
> only requirements is to pay USD 1200 and sit through a class for two
days
> 3. The decision to certify or not to certify, if at all there is one,
> is that of a single trainer who has taken money for the course from
> the participant. (99.99% of people attending the course are certified)
> 4. There are over 15000 CSMs and the industry is wondering what to do
> with them. How to get a good Agile Practitioner is still an
> unresolved need of the industry
> 5. A CSM is never better than a non-CSM practicing Agile. In many
> cases I have seen CSMs know nothing about Agile Values and Principles.
> I have trained and coached over 2500 people on Agile in India and
abroad.
> 6. The whole scheme is run by a few individuals as a commercial
> business. Yes I agree people have minted money doing CSM courses.
> 7. No one takes accountability for the certification of CSMs or if
> CSMs are not found satisfactorily executing an Agile role that they
> are given in an Agile Project
> 8. It has created massive dissatisfaction and is discredited by the
> industry including CSMs themselves
>
>
> I have put my raw ideas here for further discussions. I welcome your
> feedback and responses. I thank you for your patience. Please
> contribute your feedback.
>
> Even if nothing fianlly happens on this idea at a higher level, from
> the Agile Alliance or the international Agile Community, I am going
> to implement this scheme in India starting from Bangalore. This only
> after I get all your feedback and responses on what you all think may
> be the pros and cons of doing this this way.
>
> Kripanidhi
> www.binaryessentials.com
> http://www.scrumtales.blogspot.com
>