--- In CSPRailroad@yahoogroups.com, Russell and JoAnna - Idaho USA
<walruswebtech@...> wrote:
>
> This is one of my favorite photos of all time. Looks like it was taken from
standing on top of a flatcar on a moving train! He must've been good to get the
action without blur with that old ASA 10 color film! Love how the grade changes
after the trestle. Anyone know just where this is on Orofino Creek?
>
> <http://www.wwvrailway.com/images/HankCedarCanyon1.jpg>
>  Russell - Idaho USA

  Russell,

  If the identification of the photo is correct, my bet is bridge 9.
  The ID states Cedar Canyon and bridge 9 is just west of the spur. The bridge
number also appears to be a single digit which would support my guess....

  Jim Morefield

This is one of my favorite photos of all time. Looks like it was taken from
standing on top of a flatcar on a moving train! He must've been good to get the
action without blur with that old ASA 10 color film! Love how the grade changes
after the trestle. Anyone know just where this is on Orofino Creek?

<http://www.wwvrailway.com/images/HankCedarCanyon1.jpg>
  Russell - Idaho USA
Sent from a Mac PowerBook 'Pismo' 400MHz. Long Live Y2K!





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks! That's great!
  Russell - Idaho USA
Sent from a Mac PowerBook 'Pismo' 400MHz. Long Live Y2K!




________________________________
From: gnrmiller <gnrmiller2@...>
To: CSPRailroad@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, November 22, 2009 12:08:59 PM
Subject: [CSPRailroad] Re: Trestle 22-1, 2nd Sub.

Russell,

We have posted a photo of Bridge 22.1 on the Second Sub.

Regards,
Garry & Roz




--- In CSPRailroad@yahoogroups.com, Jim Davis <jimbdavis@...> wrote:
>
> Russell
>
> Have a look at Blair Kooistra's CSP website.  I think that the second
> photo on the homepage is Bridge 23.  While you can't quite see Bridge
> 22.1 in Blair's shots of Halfmoon, you can see where it is.
>
> <http://www.wwvrailway.com/camas.htm>
>
> Jim Davis
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Russell,

We have posted a photo of Bridge 22.1 on the Second Sub.

Regards,
Garry & Roz




--- In CSPRailroad@yahoogroups.com, Jim Davis <jimbdavis@...> wrote:
>
> Russell
>
> Have a look at Blair Kooistra's CSP website.  I think that the second
> photo on the homepage is Bridge 23.  While you can't quite see Bridge
> 22.1 in Blair's shots of Halfmoon, you can see where it is.
>
> <http://www.wwvrailway.com/camas.htm>
>
> Jim Davis
>

Great set of photo's, thanks for sharing.

JJ




________________________________
From: Jim Davis <jimbdavis@...>
To: CSPRailroad List <CSPRailroad@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, November 17, 2009 10:03:45 PM
Subject: [CSPRailroad] A few new photos


Hi Gang,

Some time ago, Dave Dudish forwarded a few photos to me that he had
received from Bill Hooper, along with permission to post them on the site.

<http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/CSPRailroa d/photos/ album/1779396259
/pic/list>

Jim Davis







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Gang,

Some time ago, Dave Dudish forwarded a few photos to me that he had
received from Bill Hooper, along with permission to post them on the site.

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CSPRailroad/photos/album/1779396259/pic/list>

Jim Davis

Russell

Have a look at Blair Kooistra's CSP website.  I think that the second
photo on the homepage is Bridge 23.  While you can't quite see Bridge
22.1 in Blair's shots of Halfmoon, you can see where it is.

<http://www.wwvrailway.com/camas.htm>

Jim Davis

This actually looks like a pretty good start: It looks to be on a bit of a
flatter hillside than big daddy Big Moon and crosses over a small creek like I
want. According to bridge.com it is pretty close to the size I want (I have 60"
- 240 O scale feet, 15 spans; the layout at this point is about 15' long):

MP 22.35Bridge 22-1unknown
17 span open deck framed timber, 5 and 6 posts per bent, timber bulkhead west
end, concrete block bulkhead east end, no walkway.
Length: 263Height: 52curve
Stringers: 4 x 4, 8 per span
Ties: 8 x 8 x 12'
Rail: 100#, 56# guardrail

According to Yahoo, it looks pretty good from the air, with a nice curve to it.:

<http://maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=h&lat=46.327143&lon=-116.575614&zoom=18> Anyone have
a photo or two?  Problem is that it is a big hike up the hill from 95 to it and
most people will be hiking to see Half Moon, not his scrawny little first child
'Dash One'!

I gotta get up there this spring when everything is green and take pictures of
everything that is left. Makes me sick to hear of the rail gone off much of the
2nd Sub. I found a document at itd.idaho.gov called the Idaho State Rail Plan
and mentions the Camas Prairie but it is from 1996!


Russell - Idaho USA
Sent from a Mac PowerBook 'Pismo' 400MHz. Long Live Y2K!



----- Original Message ----
> From: Jim Davis <jimbdavis@...>
> To: CSPRailroad@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 8:23:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [CSPRailroad] The OTHER Trestle 22 Now: Trestle 21, 2nd Sub.
>
> Russell wrote:
>
> > Length: 295' ... Sounds like it would fit my spot.
>
> That's over 6 feet long in O-scale!  That'll be an impressive bridge.
>
> As I recall, Bridge 21 doesn't have much of a curve.  You might want
> take a look at Bridge 22.1.
>
> Jim Davis




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pic 22c sure looks familiar!!!   :)

Matt S.
Ft. Worth, Tejas

--- In CSPRailroad@yahoogroups.com, "gnrmiller" <gnrmiller2@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> We have posted 3 views of the other bridge 22. We always enjoyed this hike!
>
> GnR Miller
>
>
> --- In CSPRailroad@yahoogroups.com, "csphr7" <jmorefield@> wrote:
> >
> > Russell,
> >
> >  The grade varies a lot between Orofino and Summit, anywhere from level at
the Rooney siding to a maximum of 2.2%, and bridge 22 is on one of the maximum
gradients.
> >
> >  Jim Morefield
> >
> > --- In CSPRailroad@yahoogroups.com, Russell and JoAnna - Idaho USA
<walruswebtech@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Great photo! Went right to the desktop!
> > >
> > > Not sure if it will work for my layout, some kind of 'sidehill' trestle
like Half Moon but MUCH smaller is what I would like to emulate. Is that trestle
on much of a grade? My location calls for a 3% grade.
> > >
> > > I think I will check around the CSP sites to see if there are more photos
of 2nd sub trestles too. Thanks again.
> > >  Russell - Idaho USA
> > > Sent from a Mac PowerBook 'Pismo' 400MHz. Long Live Y2K!
> > >
> >
>

Yes I do, (just got back from being in Boise this weekend actually) but the past
few times I have been that way have all been at night.  The last time I saw any
of that area in daylight was the last weekend of July.
Thanks for the info, and corrections!
Matt
Moscow ID

--- In CSPRailroad@yahoogroups.com, Jim Davis <jimbdavis@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Matt,
>

> I take it that you don't use US 95 to travel between Boise and Moscow?
>
> Jim
>

Russell wrote:

> Length: 295' ... Sounds like it would fit my spot.

That's over 6 feet long in O-scale!  That'll be an impressive bridge.

As I recall, Bridge 21 doesn't have much of a curve.  You might want
take a look at Bridge 22.1.

Jim Davis

Gang,

  The track ends just a few feet track direction east of bridge 40.
  This is the first bridge west of Ferdinand that Highway 95 used to pass under.

  As far as standing bridges, all the taller structures still have rail on them,
(bridges 50,48 and 46). The rest have a clear deck. Still switch material and
rails in the Cottonwood yard.

  As a side note, the stored covered hoppers on the first sub have been going
back to the owner and now extend just west of Kooskia. Last Memorial Day weekend
when we had our annual motorcar run, they extended about two miles west of
Kamiah.

  The stored center beams and log flats on the second sub have been cleared off
to just short of milepost 4.

  Jim Morefield

I was able to accurately flag the route using a free software called
UsaPhotomaps
available from www.jdmcox.com but more recently, the downloads  from terraserver
have been terribly slow except at night.

There is a product or service, now, that is done by Microsoft, called "bing" and
in
many instances, I can compare between bing (which does not allow creating
paths) and Google Earth, (which does).

I share this, because my retirement job (retired from CSX in 2001) with a local
signal contractor has me roughing in the GPS coordinates and other data for
control points, in preparation for estimating PTC expense.  Between the three
products mentioned, I am able to resolve situations like thing being hidden in
the trees.

Jerry Sullivan

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Russell and JoAnna - Idaho USA
   To: CSPRailroad@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 7:12 PM
   Subject: Re: [CSPRailroad] The OTHER Trestle 22 Now: Trestle 21, 2nd Sub.



   I was up late last night looking at my track plan and this afternoon I found
my BIG 1976 Idaho map (about 7' tall and still available from USGS for about
$7!) and have been tracing the CSP routes on the map and on Yahoo maps and
thinking about trestles and a name for the layout. On trestles: number 21 on the
2nd sub (fourth trestle before Half Moon) is buried in the trees here, looks
like a good model railroad sized curved trestle:

   <http://maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=h&lat=46.310671&lon=-116.583059&zoom=18>

   According to Bridge.doc:

   MP 21.07 Bridge 21 unknown
   15 span open deck framed timber, 5 & 6 posts per bent, timber bulkheads west
end, concrete block bulkhead east end, no walkway.
   Length: 295' Height: 61' curve
   Stringers: 3 x 3, 6 per span
   Ties: 8 x 8 x 12'
   Rail: 85#, 56# guardrail.

   Sounds like it would fit my spot. Not like I need to model a specific trestle
as I plan on mixing things up between Northern and Southern Idaho and thinking
about the name Cascade, Sweetwater and Panhandle or sonething... But it would be
nice to be able to compare my model to a photo and say 'yep, that's it'. :^)

   Russell - Idaho USA
   Sent from a Mac PowerBook 'Pismo' 400MHz. Long Live Y2K!





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I also offered to see what I could do with it, if he was willing to send
me a copy.

Jerry Sullivan
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Russell and JoAnna - Idaho USA
   To: CSPRailroad@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 6:48 PM
   Subject: Re: [CSPRailroad] CSPR On Microsoft Train Simulator



   Bill,

   Frustrating about those snags, sorry to hear it, but thanks for all your hard
work, maybe it will pay off sometime.

   I was just wondering if using MSTS with bin you could rescue some of your work
from your backups???
   Russell - Idaho USA
   Sent from a Mac PowerBook 'Pismo' 400MHz. Long Live Y2K!

   ----- Original Message ----
   > From: bill_york10 <bill_york10@...>
   > To: CSPRailroad@yahoogroups.com
   > Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 4:20:52 PM
   > Subject: [CSPRailroad] Re: Lapwai Canyon?
   >
   > Gang,
   >
   > I was the one working on the MSTS version of the CSP. Unfortunately I had an
   > issue where the MSTS database got corrupt and I could never restore from any
of
   > my backups so I gave up on the project. I'll second the fact that MSTS was
   > super buggy and the dev tools were a nightmare. I'll have to check out BIN
   > though.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I was up late last night looking at my track plan and this afternoon I found my
BIG 1976 Idaho map (about 7' tall and still available from USGS for about $7!)
and have been tracing the CSP routes on the map and on Yahoo maps and thinking
about trestles and a name for the layout. On trestles: number 21 on the 2nd sub
(fourth trestle before Half Moon) is buried in the trees here, looks like a good
model railroad sized curved trestle:

<http://maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=h&lat=46.310671&lon=-116.583059&zoom=18>

According to Bridge.doc:

MP 21.07   Bridge 21   unknown
15 span open deck framed timber, 5 & 6 posts per bent, timber bulkheads west
end, concrete block bulkhead east end, no walkway.
Length: 295'   Height: 61'   curve
Stringers: 3 x 3, 6 per span
Ties: 8 x 8 x 12'
Rail: 85#, 56# guardrail.

Sounds like it would fit my spot. Not like I need to model a specific trestle as
I plan on mixing things up between Northern and Southern Idaho and thinking
about the name Cascade, Sweetwater and Panhandle or sonething... But it would be
nice to be able to compare my model to a photo and say 'yep, that's it'. :^)


Russell - Idaho USA
Sent from a Mac PowerBook 'Pismo' 400MHz. Long Live Y2K!

Bill,

Frustrating about those snags, sorry to hear it, but thanks for all your hard
work, maybe it will pay off sometime.

I was just wondering if using MSTS with bin you could rescue some of your work
from your backups???
  Russell - Idaho USA
Sent from a Mac PowerBook 'Pismo' 400MHz. Long Live Y2K!



----- Original Message ----
> From: bill_york10 <bill_york10@...>
> To: CSPRailroad@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 4:20:52 PM
> Subject: [CSPRailroad] Re: Lapwai Canyon?
>
> Gang,
>
>   I was the one working on the MSTS version of the CSP.  Unfortunately I had
an
> issue where the MSTS database got corrupt and I could never restore from any
of
> my backups so I gave up on the project.  I'll second the fact that MSTS was
> super buggy and the dev tools were a nightmare.  I'll have to check out BIN
> though.

Gang,

   I was the one working on the MSTS version of the CSP.  Unfortunately I had an
issue where the MSTS database got corrupt and I could never restore from any of
my backups so I gave up on the project.  I'll second the fact that MSTS was
super buggy and the dev tools were a nightmare.  I'll have to check out BIN
though.

   A couple of years ago I started loading DEMs for Trainz 2006 and had track
laid from Orofino to Kamiah but then my daughter was born and it had become a
dusty project on the shelf.  I did buy Trainz 2009 and when I uploaded the route
the seams alongh all of the DEM boundaries had 20-40 high ridge that appeared. 
This effectively killed the interest I had in finishing the route.

   If anyone is interested in what I did for Trainz I can try to upload the file
somewhere.

-Bill.

Jim Davis wrote:

> Considering the number of steel trestles still standing with track

Doh!  That should read "withOUT track..."

Jim Davis

Hi Matt,

You wrote:

> The recent discussions have got me wondering, is the Lapwai Canyon
> trestle still in place?

Do you mean the big steel bridge at *Lawyer's* Canyon?

It's still there.  The scrapping last year pulled the rail from about
Ferdinand to Cottonwood only.  I think that anything that you heard
about scrapping the Lawyer's Canyon trestle was probably speculation.
Considering the number of steel trestles still standing with track in
the PNW, I can guess only that dismantling them is more costly than the
value of the steel.  All of the timber trestles on the Second Sub, with
or without track are also in place.

I take it that you don't use US 95 to travel between Boise and Moscow?

Jim

The photos look great! Sure is a beautiful area.
  Russell - Idaho USA
Sent from a Mac PowerBook 'Pismo' 400MHz. Long Live Y2K!



----- Original Message ----
> From: gnrmiller <gnrmiller2@...>
> To: CSPRailroad@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 10:29:32 AM
> Subject: [CSPRailroad] Re: The OTHER Trestle 22
>
> Hi all,
>
> We have posted 3 views of the other bridge 22. We always enjoyed this hike!
>
> GnR Miller
>
>
> --- In CSPRailroad@yahoogroups.com, "csphr7" wrote:
> >
> > Russell,
> >
> >  The grade varies a lot between Orofino and Summit, anywhere from level at
the
> Rooney siding to a maximum of 2.2%, and bridge 22 is on one of the maximum
> gradients.
> >
> >  Jim Morefield

The recent discussions have got me wondering, is the Lapwai Canyon trestle still
in place?  I had heard that it was supposed to be removed with the scrapping of
the 2nd sub.  Also, how far along has the 2nd sub scrapping come?
Matt
Moscow ID

Hi all,

We have posted 3 views of the other bridge 22. We always enjoyed this hike!

GnR Miller


--- In CSPRailroad@yahoogroups.com, "csphr7" <jmorefield@...> wrote:
>
> Russell,
>
>  The grade varies a lot between Orofino and Summit, anywhere from level at the
Rooney siding to a maximum of 2.2%, and bridge 22 is on one of the maximum
gradients.
>
>  Jim Morefield
>
> --- In CSPRailroad@yahoogroups.com, Russell and JoAnna - Idaho USA
<walruswebtech@> wrote:
> >
> > Great photo! Went right to the desktop!
> >
> > Not sure if it will work for my layout, some kind of 'sidehill' trestle like
Half Moon but MUCH smaller is what I would like to emulate. Is that trestle on
much of a grade? My location calls for a 3% grade.
> >
> > I think I will check around the CSP sites to see if there are more photos of
2nd sub trestles too. Thanks again.
> >  Russell - Idaho USA
> > Sent from a Mac PowerBook 'Pismo' 400MHz. Long Live Y2K!
> >
>

There never was anything other than a version one, although a patch was put
out by MS about a year after initial release.  More recently it has been
reissued
under the Atari distribution label for $10.  I run mine in 1024x768x32 and it
works fine.  Here is my system spec:

Pentium Duo-2 at 2.4GHz and 2G of Ram
Windows XP-Pro (32bit version)
Nvidia Geforce 6200 Turbo
Serial Hard Drives

By current standards this is just an average system.

On very dense situations, this gives me 30-40fps and the image is very fine,
not blocky at all.  At the risk of getting some flack, I'll post a few screen
captures
in the group photos tomorrow.  After a few weeks the moderator can delete
them if space is an issue.  These will be from Milwaukee Rd. routes in Idaho,
especially along the N. Fork of the St.Joe.  I'll also add an image or two from
a route that I obtained from a fellow in Italy that is as exact a simulation of
the
RhB line over Bernina pass as can be made.

Lukas Lussar of Zurich told me that he stopped a train in Poschiavo, a village
on the south slope of the pass and turned the view camera toward a nearby
house.  Then he asked his wife, a Dr., who is from that village where this
house was.  She gave him the street address, whose house it was, and then
criticized the fact that there was a missing railing on a balcony.

The fellow who did the route as the grandson of a former chief engineer M/W
on the line so he access to the nitty gritty details.

Jerry Sullivan
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Russell and JoAnna - Idaho USA
   To: CSPRailroad@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 8:05 PM
   Subject: Re: [CSPRailroad] Lapwai Canyon?



   Great information about the train sims. I actually own MSTS, I think it is a
version 1 or something as it only works in 640x480 and is really blocky. I
quickly tired of it and went back to trackplans on paper as the scenery and
trains are much more realistic from the armchair :^).
   Russell - Idaho USA
   Sent from a Mac PowerBook 'Pismo' 400MHz. Long Live Y2K!

   ----- Original Message ----
   > From: Jerry Sullivan <jhsulliv@...>
   > To: CSPRailroad@yahoogroups.com
   > Sent: Sat, November 14, 2009 6:49:30 AM
   > Subject: Re: [CSPRailroad] Lapwai Canyon?
   >
   > MSTS is pretty buggy, but in recent years, a fellow in Germany came out with
   > a patch (almost a replacement) called "BIN" which you will see mentioned on
   > www.train-sim.com forums. This considerably improved the product and since
   > MSTS had stopped supporting it (never did, really), had dumped a
replacement,
   > (now twice), apparently they did not care.
   > The BIN version works much better and the result is that new routes,
content,
   > etc.
   > are coming out every day and it has better US content than any other
simulator.
   > I did a test route in TRAINZ-2009 and also in RailWorks, but TZ-2009
produces
   > something more like a model railroad, although there are some exceptionally
   > well done routes - Proto-Clinchfield is excellent. RW is the most likely
   > successor
   > in my efforts to MSTS, BUT, the terminated game studio group at Microsoft
   > has formed its own company and we don't know what their first product will
be,
   > but there are hints that it will be a train simulator. We have suggested to
   > them
   > that if it can import MSTS content it would be an instant success, even if
one
   > is
   > required to have the source code for the content. We wait with feverish
   > anticipation.
   > The only real problem is that for one person to do a route, takes
   > the better part of a year, if justice is done well for the subject. CSP is a
   > bit
   > of an exception though because there are no Interstates involved, and not
   > that many roads, and only a couple of bigger towns. I have traced all of the
   > main routes and extracted terrain, so it is just the problem of sitting down
   > and doing it. Lawyers creek trestle is relatively easy to recreate, but the
   > timber trestles are a real bear as they have to be fitted in place, bent by
   > bent, just like the real ones, although we build from the top down.
   >
   > Jerry Sullivan





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Russell,

  The grade varies a lot between Orofino and Summit, anywhere from level at the
Rooney siding to a maximum of 2.2%, and bridge 22 is on one of the maximum
gradients.

  Jim Morefield

--- In CSPRailroad@yahoogroups.com, Russell and JoAnna - Idaho USA
<walruswebtech@...> wrote:
>
> Great photo! Went right to the desktop!
>
> Not sure if it will work for my layout, some kind of 'sidehill' trestle like
Half Moon but MUCH smaller is what I would like to emulate. Is that trestle on
much of a grade? My location calls for a 3% grade.
>
> I think I will check around the CSP sites to see if there are more photos of
2nd sub trestles too. Thanks again.
>  Russell - Idaho USA
> Sent from a Mac PowerBook 'Pismo' 400MHz. Long Live Y2K!
>

Great photo! Went right to the desktop!

Not sure if it will work for my layout, some kind of 'sidehill' trestle like
Half Moon but MUCH smaller is what I would like to emulate. Is that trestle on
much of a grade? My location calls for a 3% grade.

I think I will check around the CSP sites to see if there are more photos of 2nd
sub trestles too. Thanks again.
  Russell - Idaho USA
Sent from a Mac PowerBook 'Pismo' 400MHz. Long Live Y2K!



----- Original Message ----
> From: csphr7 <jmorefield@...>
> To: CSPRailroad@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sat, November 14, 2009 6:16:49 AM
> Subject: [CSPRailroad] Re: The OTHER Trestle 22
>
>
> Jon,
>
> It is bridge 22 and that was the photo I was talking about and was about to
tear
> my hair out because I was unable to find it.
>
> Thanks for saving what little hairline I still have...
>
>
> Jim Morefield
>
>
> --- In CSPRailroad@yahoogroups.com, "Jon" wrote:
> >
> > I just posted a photo taken in 1991 of a trestle on the 4th Sub in the
> "Bridges" section of the "Files" catagory.
> >
> > I don't know if this is #22 or not.
> >
> > Let me know. I have other trestle pictures taken on the 4th Sub.

Great information about the train sims. I actually own MSTS, I think it is a
version 1 or something as it only works in 640x480 and is really blocky. I
quickly tired of it and went back to trackplans on paper as the scenery and
trains are much more realistic from the armchair :^).
  Russell - Idaho USA
Sent from a Mac PowerBook 'Pismo' 400MHz. Long Live Y2K!



----- Original Message ----
> From: Jerry Sullivan <jhsulliv@...>
> To: CSPRailroad@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sat, November 14, 2009 6:49:30 AM
> Subject: Re: [CSPRailroad] Lapwai Canyon?
>
> MSTS is pretty buggy, but in recent years, a fellow in Germany came out with
> a patch (almost a replacement) called "BIN" which you will see mentioned on
> www.train-sim.com forums.  This considerably improved the product and since
> MSTS had stopped supporting it (never did, really), had dumped a replacement,
> (now twice), apparently they did not care.
> The BIN version works much better and the result is that new routes, content,
> etc.
> are coming out every day and it has better US content than any other
simulator.
> I did a test route in TRAINZ-2009 and also in RailWorks, but TZ-2009 produces
> something more like a model railroad, although there are some exceptionally
> well done routes - Proto-Clinchfield is excellent.  RW is the most likely
> successor
> in my efforts to MSTS, BUT, the terminated game studio group at Microsoft
> has formed its own company and we don't know what their first product will be,
> but there are hints that it will be a train simulator.  We have suggested to
> them
> that if it can import MSTS content it would be an instant success, even if one
> is
> required to have the source code for the content.  We wait with feverish
> anticipation.
> The only real problem is that for one person to do a route, takes
> the better part of a year, if justice is done well for the subject.  CSP is a
> bit
> of an exception though because there are no Interstates involved, and not
> that many roads, and only a couple of bigger towns.  I have traced all of the
> main routes and extracted terrain, so it is just the problem of sitting down
> and doing it.  Lawyers creek trestle is relatively easy to recreate, but the
> timber trestles are a real bear as they have to be fitted in place, bent by
> bent, just like the real ones, although we build from the top down.
>
> Jerry Sullivan

MSTS is pretty buggy, but in recent years, a fellow in Germany came out with
a patch (almost a replacement) called "BIN" which you will see mentioned on
www.train-sim.com forums.  This considerably improved the product and since
MSTS had stopped supporting it (never did, really), had dumped a replacement,
(now twice), apparently they did not care.
The BIN version works much better and the result is that new routes, content,
etc.
are coming out every day and it has better US content than any other simulator.
I did a test route in TRAINZ-2009 and also in RailWorks, but TZ-2009 produces
something more like a model railroad, although there are some exceptionally
well done routes - Proto-Clinchfield is excellent.  RW is the most likely
successor
in my efforts to MSTS, BUT, the terminated game studio group at Microsoft
has formed its own company and we don't know what their first product will be,
but there are hints that it will be a train simulator.  We have suggested to
them
that if it can import MSTS content it would be an instant success, even if one
is
required to have the source code for the content.  We wait with feverish
anticipation.
The only real problem is that for one person to do a route, takes
the better part of a year, if justice is done well for the subject.  CSP is a
bit
of an exception though because there are no Interstates involved, and not
that many roads, and only a couple of bigger towns.  I have traced all of the
main routes and extracted terrain, so it is just the problem of sitting down
and doing it.  Lawyers creek trestle is relatively easy to recreate, but the
timber trestles are a real bear as they have to be fitted in place, bent by
bent, just like the real ones, although we build from the top down.

Jerry Sullivan

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Chris Atkins
   To: CSPRailroad@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 10:39 PM
   Subject: Re: [CSPRailroad] Lapwai Canyon?



   Hi JJ,

   It seems like someone else was doing this a few years ago, but I don't
   know how far they got. You might check the archives.

   I played with MSTS when it was new, but I found it very buggy and
   Microsoft stopped supporting it. I haven't looked at it for a long time.

   I also have Trainz sitting around here somewhere.

   Chris Atkins
   Lewisville, TX

   Jerry Sullivan wrote:
   >
   >
   > Depending on your age, it might have just been napping, like mine
   > sometimes does.
   > I am 70. I have the details necessary to do a MSTS simulation of the
   > CSP and I hope
   > to do it, but there are only so many minutes in a day and my
   > preference is L&N lines
   > that I know in intimate detail, especially Louisville to Nashville,
   > and Nashville to
   > Chattanooga. If someone pipes up and just wants me to do the track and
   > roads, I
   > would move it nearer the front burner - for me, track and roads,
   > especially track, is
   > the easy part.
   >
   > Jerry Sullivan
   > ----- Original Message -----
   > From: JJ Schnell
   > To: CSPRailroad@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CSPRailroad%40yahoogroups.com>
   > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 10:05 PM
   > Subject: Re: [CSPRailroad] Lapwai Canyon?
   >
   > Yes, you are correct it is Lapwai Canyon I am talking about. I'm not
   > sure where my mind was at when I typed the original question.
   >
   > JJ
   >
   > ________________________________
   > From: Jerry Sullivan <jhsulliv@...
   > <mailto:jhsulliv%40comcast.net>>
   > To: CSPRailroad@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CSPRailroad%40yahoogroups.com>
   > Sent: Thu, November 12, 2009 5:26:06 PM
   > Subject: Re: [CSPRailroad] Helpers on Lawyers Canyon?
   >
   > I'm not that knowledgible about the CSP but it would seem to me that
   > helpers would have been badly needed on the climb up Lapwai Canyon
   > but Lawyers was crossed on a high steel trestle and these are usually
   > employed both to bridge a canyon or ravine, and keep the grade within
   > reason.
   >
   > Jerry Sullivan
   >
   > ----- Original Message -----
   > From: JJS
   > To: CSPRailroad@ yahoogroups. com
   > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:05 PM
   > Subject: [CSPRailroad] Helpers on Lawyers Canyon?
   >
   > I'm just curious if there were ever helpers required on the Lawyers
   > Canyon grade, either in the steam or diesel era. What is the actual
   > grade % of the climb? I've heard between 2% and 3% which is why I'm
   > curious if extra's were ever needed during the busy years.
   >
   > If so were they cut off at the top and sent back down, or were they
   > left somewhere? I'm trying to be as prototypical as possible in
   > planning for my layout, but n-scale engines just don't pull very much
   > on a steep grade.
   >
   > What was the average number of grain cars a Geep could haul up the
   > grade, both the GP-9's and the later 38 & 40's. Thanks for any insight
   > you guys can give me.
   >
   > JJ
   >





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jon,

  It is bridge 22 and that was the photo I was talking about and was about to
tear my hair out because I was unable to find it.

  Thanks for saving what little hairline I still have...


  Jim Morefield


--- In CSPRailroad@yahoogroups.com, "Jon" <jwaide3@...> wrote:
>
> I just posted a photo taken in 1991 of a trestle on the 4th Sub in the
"Bridges" section of the "Files" catagory.
>
> I don't know if this is #22 or not.
>
> Let me know. I have other trestle pictures taken on the 4th Sub.
>
> JMW
>
> --- In CSPRailroad@yahoogroups.com, Russell and JoAnna - Idaho USA
<walruswebtech@> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for all the great info so quickly! Would love to see some kind of
photo.
> >
> > The Google aerial photos must've been taken in spring, everything is so
beautiful and green!
> >
> >  Russell - Idaho USA
> > Sent from a Mac PowerBook 'Pismo' 400MHz. Long Live Y2K!
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > > From: csphr7 <jmorefield@>
> > > To: CSPRailroad@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Wed, November 11, 2009 11:04:21 PM
> > > Subject: [CSPRailroad] Re: The OTHER Trestle 22
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Russel,
> > >
> > > I will add that the fourth sub bridge 22 is full length untreated cedar
piling
> > > as opposed to the halfmoon being of framed bent construction. This might
make it
> > > a little easier to model.
> > >
> > > One of our group members once sent me a photo taken from the cab of the
> > > locomotive as they approached the bridge, but I don't remember who it was.
With
> > > his permission and if I can find it, I will send it to you.
> > >
> > > Jim Morefield
> > >
> > > --- In CSPRailroad@yahoogroups.com, Jim Davis wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Russell wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Are there any photos of this #22 trestle and its surrounds?
> > > >
> > > > You can see it on Google Earth or Google Maps (with the satellite photo
> > > > option turned on).
> > > >
> > > > It's at Lat. 46°30'5.99"N, Long. 115°52'37.97"W, or just go to Pierce
> > > > ID, follow the highway north to the railroad, and then follow the
> > > > railroad down (to the left) Orofino Creek.  Bridge 22 is the eight
> > > > crossing of Orofino (not counting the highway overpass).
> >
>

I just posted a photo taken in 1991 of a trestle on the 4th Sub in the "Bridges"
section of the "Files" catagory.

I don't know if this is #22 or not.

Let me know. I have other trestle pictures taken on the 4th Sub.

JMW

--- In CSPRailroad@yahoogroups.com, Russell and JoAnna - Idaho USA
<walruswebtech@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks for all the great info so quickly! Would love to see some kind of
photo.
>
> The Google aerial photos must've been taken in spring, everything is so
beautiful and green!
>
>  Russell - Idaho USA
> Sent from a Mac PowerBook 'Pismo' 400MHz. Long Live Y2K!
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> > From: csphr7 <jmorefield@...>
> > To: CSPRailroad@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wed, November 11, 2009 11:04:21 PM
> > Subject: [CSPRailroad] Re: The OTHER Trestle 22
> >
> >
> >
> > Russel,
> >
> > I will add that the fourth sub bridge 22 is full length untreated cedar
piling
> > as opposed to the halfmoon being of framed bent construction. This might
make it
> > a little easier to model.
> >
> > One of our group members once sent me a photo taken from the cab of the
> > locomotive as they approached the bridge, but I don't remember who it was.
With
> > his permission and if I can find it, I will send it to you.
> >
> > Jim Morefield
> >
> > --- In CSPRailroad@yahoogroups.com, Jim Davis wrote:
> > >
> > > Russell wrote:
> > >
> > > > Are there any photos of this #22 trestle and its surrounds?
> > >
> > > You can see it on Google Earth or Google Maps (with the satellite photo
> > > option turned on).
> > >
> > > It's at Lat. 46°30'5.99"N, Long. 115°52'37.97"W, or just go to Pierce
> > > ID, follow the highway north to the railroad, and then follow the
> > > railroad down (to the left) Orofino Creek.  Bridge 22 is the eight
> > > crossing of Orofino (not counting the highway overpass).
>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the CSPRailroad
group.

   File        : /Bridges/csp_4th_sub_cab_4_crop_1991a800.jpg
   Uploaded by : amt510 <jwaide3@...>
   Description : 4th Sub Cab View 1991 - Trestle

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CSPRailroad/files/Bridges/csp_4th_sub_cab_4_crop_1\
991a800.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/general.htmlfiles

Regards,

amt510 <jwaide3@...>