I already sent this to Jim Davis, and now it's time to bore the rest of
you with stories of my trip to Lewiston last week.  My son and I got
down there a little after 7, and watched the crews making up the various
trains.  Before too long, along came Steve Esholm, and two other guys
from Vancouver, WA showed up about 8.  When we heard a conversation
between the switch crew and the "Grangeville Turn", we knew we had a
train to chase.  There was a glimmer of hope that the term "Grangeville
Turn" meant exactly that, but we weren't very optimistic about that and
sure enough, the train did turn at Craigmont.  Once the train left E.
Lewiston, all three cars of railfans made tracks for Spalding and the
shot from the old bridge, then we chased the train up the canyon to
Nucrag.  An earlier radio conversation between the Cragmont Turn and a
maintenance crew at Cragmont indicated that the train crew thought they
would make it to Cragmont by 1pm, but we didn't believe it when the
train ran through Spalding about 9:30.  After the train entered the
tunnel on it's way up the canyon, we all sped up to Reubens and tried to
locate the one road our maps showed crossing the tracks north of town.
That was a fiasco, to say the least, and I'm surprised I didn't get my
mom's car stuck in the mud.  By the time we got out of that mess, it was
too late to get a good shot at Reubens, but we took some shots at the
few spots where the highway (P3) parallels the tracks.  From there we
ran on into Cragmont, which the train reached right on the advertised
time of 1pm!  Turned out later that the train was running that slow on
purpose due to a car of ammonia in its consist.  Not that there would've
been that much difference between the 10 mph at which it ran and the 15
mph at which it would've run otherwise.  Anyway, the Vancouver guys
talked to the engineer, who was running the train alone, and I guess
they were going to ask him about a cab ride when Kevin Spradlin showed
up to play brakeman for the train.  So much for their cab ride!  I
would've liked to have asked Kevin more about the abandonment, but he
looked awfully busy so I left him alone.  The train dropped off most of
the lumber flats in its consist on the siding and went to spot the
ammonia tank and retrieve the empty at the Harvest States elevator (have
you seen their little "critter" that doesn't seem to be running right
now?).  Then it delivered two empty center-beam flats and picked up two
or three loads from US Lumber before heading back down the canyon.  Zach
and I went down the canyon to get shots as it came into view on the high
line.  We got more shots on the bridges across the highway and on the
one trestle that runs alongside the highway before calling off the chase
and heading back to Spokane in time for dinner.  Good trip.  Time wise
it was probably just as well that the train didn't go all the way down
to Grangeville, but I would've liked to get some more shots of the
"Granger" Camas Prairie to go with my shots of the "Gorre and Daphetid"
CSP.  Maybe there'll be an opportunity later, but I'm not counting on
it.

That means the rest of you need to get out there and get your shots now.

Thomas Hillebrant
WIandMRy List Administrator

Hello all,

George W. Jenista wrote:

> What if a forestry industry could be established {or re-established if
> it was there previously}, using some of the new genetically
> engineered, rapid-growth softwood species [seedling-to-harvest in 4
> years]?

Sorry to have taken so long to get back to this topic.

Up through the early 80's, central Idaho had a thriving timber industry.
The high interest rates in the early 80's and subsequent economic
downturn caused many mills to close.  Some reopened, but by the late
80's, the timber supply from national forests was greatly cut back.
Potlatch Corp does have large timberland holdings in Idaho, but most of
the other companies in the area relied on timber from the Nezperce or
the Clearwater Nat'l Forests. Most of the recent mill closures have been
caused by a shortage of logs, not poor markets.  The reduction in timber
sales from federal lands is a response to over cutting during the 60's
and 70's, and from environmental pressures.  Practically all timber
sales are protested/appealed by various environmental groups.  I
recently read that current timber sales are about 20% of what they were
in 1989, and I suspect that sales in 1989 must have been 1/3 of that in
1979.  Anyonee have access to such figures?

Can anyone provide more info on these fast-growing trees?  If you can
really get sawlogs (even small ones) in 4 years, that would be amazing.
Most of the hybrid trees that I'm aware of are grown in the southeastern
US where the growing season is much longer and more moisture is
available than in northern Idaho. The Boise-Cascade Co. does have
irrigated tree plantations in southeastern Washington state. This area
is much lower in elevation than the Camas Prairie and has longer growing
season. Interestingly, BC has encountered some difficulties harvesting
their plantations.  As you would expect in any forest, a large of amount
of wildlife has made the BC planations home.  When the time to start
cutting came, an environmental group protested BC cutting logs in their
own planation (that was grown on what had previously be a desert.) I
don't know the final outcome. To my knowledge, the BC plantations are
hybrids, but not genetically engineered.

> For that matter, what about alternatives to trees, such as
> kenaf, an annual field crop whose fiber is used to manufacture paper?

I don't think kenaf is a viable crop in northern climates.  I believe
that most the productions in Texas. Anybody know more about this crop?
Hemp offers some possibilities as well, but it is not generally accepted
by the paper industry (retooling costs, I think), and is certainly not a
socially accepted either. (That is likely a topic for a different email
list...)

Some Grangeville locals have been working towards a strawboard plant.
This facility would make building materials (similar to particle board
or chip board) from wheat straw left after harvest.  They have
encountered difficulties in attracting capital/financing. A small
strawboard plant has opened farther north near Coeur d' Alene ID. I
believe that is was primarily financed by the Cd'A Indian tribe using
money collected in their casino.

Well, I've rambled on long enough and have strayed a bit from the
railroad...

Jim

JMWaide@... wrote:

> You mention UP #1041, did you mean #1061?

Yes, you caught my typo.  Here's the correct info:

>The UP 1061 was sold to St.Louis Auto Parts for scrap in 87 or 88.


Jim

Jim,

Great info. Thanks for taking the time to research it!

You mention UP #1041, did you mean #1061? I don't recall #1041 working in
Lewiston during the 70's-80's. I know #1061 was a regular.

Thanks again,

Jon Waide

Hello
Here's my latest information on the fate of the CSP regulars from the
70s. Thanks to Ken Ardinger for helping. Note the change on BN 192.
Jim

UP units-
245     wrecked Bosler, WY 6/77, scrapped 12/77
246     sold to Erman Howell in KS 10/82 (scrapper)
247     sold to Fritz Enterprizes, Riverdale,IL 1/85
248     sold to Erman Howell in KS 12/84
249     sold to PNC 2/81; remember this is ex UP 204:1

1041    sold to Peaker Services in Mich 1/80
1822    became SW10 1238 in 8/82,  sold 7/98 to Ferrocarril Mexicana and
         is to become 1203.

NP units-
200 BN1700  ret 9/23/82, traded in to GE on B30-7AB
201 BN1701  ret 10/15/80, sold to Hyman-Michaels 2/3/81 to Peabody
             Coal 603
202 BN1702  BNSF 1600, likely stored at this time as part of BNSF's
              "surge fleet" at Richland WA or Topeka KS.
203 BN1703  reman by MK 12/30/92 as GP28M BN 1528, now BNSF 1528
204 BN1704  sold Helm Leasing 01/86, to Copper Basin Ry 204

114 BN114   (SW7) ret 10/27/83
126 BN186   (SW1200) ret 2/26/91, sold Midwest loco 4/22/91, SOO 6/8/91
133 BN192   (SW1200) still on BNSF roster as 3534

         The Peabody Coal 603 was used at the Randolph, IL preparation
         plant, this was scheduled to close late 1999.

UP C30-7 #2424 made a trip to East Lewiston on June 25, 1982. I
mentioned this event in a previous message but I didn't have the date
at the time - so there it is.

This is the only time I had ever seen UP GE power on the CSP.

Did anyone ever see Alco diesel power in Lewiston from either road? -
predecessors count.

I thought this might be of interest -

Journal entry from August 9, 1980 -

East Lewiston engine facility:

UP Units present:

168, 246, 247, 1061, and 1822

UP Cabooses:

25354, 25707, 25821

BN Units present:

114, 1701, 1702, 1704, 1745, 1786, and 1792

BN Caboose:

10038 - Full NP paint

JMW

thompsonpe@... wrote:

> Greetings,
>
> I managed to obtain a copy of the Hal Riegger book on the Camas Prairie in
> York yesterday.

>snip<

> Apart from this book are thereany other books in which the Camas Prairie is
> featured.

> I would be interested in any information books with good photographs would be
> helpful. I would also be interested in books in which the Camas Prairie had
> only a small amount of
> the total coverage.

While I am not aware of any other books with much photo coverage of the Camas
Prairie,  periodically I find single photos or references in books about UP or
NP.

Here are a couple of other sources of which you may not be aware.  Back in
1977/78 Dave Clemens & Todd Sullivan had a three part series on the Camas
Prairie
published in the December 1977 "Railroad Model Craftsman", December 1977, and
February 1978 "Railfan" magazines (Carstens).   Dave Clemens again published
some
Camas Prairie photos  in the 1998 "Model Railroad Planning"  (Kalmbach).   Matt
Sugerman had an article in July 1998 "CTC Board" which also include good photos
of the Camas Prairie.

Periodically I find single photos or references in the NP historical society
magazines, or the model press.  Find Accurail's search site for more details at
http://www.accurail.com/   try csp.

For video coverage, If you can still find a copy, the railroad had a video named
"Camas Prairie, The Railroad on Stilts" a couple years back, although I believe
it's out-of-print.  Additionally, the movies "Breakheart Pass" and I think
"Wild, Wild West" were filmed on the Camas Prairie.

Any other info, I'd be interested in hearing.

Hope this helps,

Don Mazur

Jim Davis <jbdavis@...> wrote:
> If railroads hauled more of the everyday items of life like they did
> years ago, the line would be much more viable.  Since the Class One
> lines still set the rates and control the car supplies for offline
> shipments, CSP RailNet is caught in the middle to some degree and is
> limited to the sort of traffic that UP and BNSF want.
>
> On the positive side, I think that an agressively managed excursion
> train could be quite lucrative, but this doesn't seem to be forthcoming.
> Also, I believe some online fertilizer traffic could be taken from
> trucks by utilizing part of that fleet of 70-ton covered hoppers that
> came with the line sale and some leased tank cars. This would be short
> haul traffic from Central Ferry to Craigmont and Grangeville.  So while
> the situation is rather bleak, possibilities do exist.

What if a forestry industry could be established {or re-established if it
was there previously}, using some of the new genetically engineered,
rapid-growth softwood species [seedling-to-harvest in 4 years]? For that
matter, what about alternatives to trees, such as kenaf, an annual field
crop whose fiber is used to manufacture paper?

The railroad, obviously, could be in the forefront of leading an effort to
locate industries like that.

Greetings,

I managed to obtain a copy of the Hal Riegger book on the Camas Prairie in
York yesterday. I doubt if there were ever more than half a dozen copies
imported into England and so I was very lucky. Apart from this book are there
any other books in which the Camas Prairie is featured. I would be interested
in any information books with good photographs would be helpful. I would also
be interested in books in which the Camas Prairie had only a small amount of
the total coverage.

Thanks,

Peter E Thompson,
Nottingham.

Can we get the US Railfans site put in the "Links" section?

http://www.btinternet.com/~usrailfans/Railroads/Camas_Prairie/Lewiston

Thanks,

Jon Waide

Jim, thank you for taking the time to address my questions! I was
starting to get a bit frustrated.

When the BN business train was in town there was an article in the
Lewiston Morning Tribune about it. Maybe someone who has access to
the Trib's archives could research it.

As far as the UP six axle GE power in Lewiston question goes, UP C30-
7 #2424 made a trip to Lewiston in June of 1981 or 82. I have some
real nice B&W photos taken of the unit in the East Lewiston engine
facility parked next to #247. I have the exact date written in my
journal at home so I will post that information when I find it. I
spoke to a CSP employee that day and he said it was the first time he
had ever seen GE power in Lewiston. There was some concern that the
unit was too big to be turned on the Lewiston turntable. I have seen
SD40's on the table that had no problem being turned so I would think
the GE would have no problem. I have photos of an SD40 being turned
on the Lewiston turntable BTW.

Does anyone have photos of the RailNet C30-7 making the trip to
Orofino? Did the unit go to Revling on the Logger?

Thanks to Graham for posting the CSP photos!! Looking forward to
seeing more!!!

I finally got a photo scanner. Once I get it hooked up and figure out
how to use it I can start posting photos.


JMW
Phoenix

Okay CSP fans, here's an attempt to answer some of Mr. Waide's
questions.  Please feel free to offer corrections and/or more info. (I
know of another CSP fan, who's been gathering this sort of info, but
he's not joined our ranks yet.  Guess I'll have to give him call...)

> JMWaide@... wrote:
>
> So, when did the geeps finally leave the CSP?

By looking through Hal Riegger's book, I found photos showing GP9s and
the roundhouse taken on Sep 26, 1983 (page 142-143).  I also found a
shot of a train at Spaulding with nothing but GP38-2s taken on March 25,
1984 (page64).  Several other shots from 1983 also show GP9s. So the
GP9s must have gone in late 83 or early 84.

Keep in mind that this book does have several errors in it (which we can
discuss at a later date), but these seem like reasonable dates to me.

> Which geep was the last to go?

I bet several went at once.

> What was the disposition of the UP GP-9 "regulars" (245, 246, 247,
> 248, 249)? Scrapped, rebuilt, preserved, etc.

UP245  wrecked Bosler, WY 6/77, scrapped 12/77
   246  ?
   247  ?
   248  ?
   249  ?
   1041 ?
   1822 ?

Obviously we don't have data for the UP locos yet, but here is some info
on the ex NP GP9s and switchers taken from Bob Del Grosso's BN roster
books and annuals:

200 BN1700  ret 9/23/82, traded in to GE on B30-7AB
201 BN1701  ret 10/15/80, sold to Hyman-Michaels 2/3/81 to Peabody
             Coal 603
202 BN1702  BNSF 1600, likely stored at this time as part of BNSF's
              "surge fleet" at Richland WA or Topeka KS.
203 BN1703  reman by MK 12/30/92 as GP28M BN 1528, now BNSF 1528
204 BN1704  sold Helm Leasing 01/86, to Copper Basin Ry 204
114 BN114   (SW7) ret 10/27/83
126 BN186   (SW1200) ret 2/26/91, sold Midwest loco 4/22/91, SOO 6/8/91
133 BN192   (SW1200) still on BNSF roster (appearently as 3532)

In the late 70s while 1702 was being repaired after taking a swim in the
Clearwater River, and during the early 80s after 1700 and 1701 were
gone, other BN GP9s made appearances on the CSP.  I've seen photos of
the following:

BN 1708, 1761, 1768, 1786, 1787 and 1792

There were undoubtably others.

> Would anyone be interested in putting together a book on the CSP that
> picks up where Hal Rieger left off?

I know of a couple that were planning a "definative book" on the CSP in
1998.  I haven't heard about the status of the project recently.

Jim

I have been to work with the scanner and have pictures up on the US Railfans
website of the F Units and SD40-2s at Lewiston.

Use the following link to get there.

http://www.btinternet.com/~usrailfans/Railroads/Camas_Prairie/Lewiston/lewis
ton.html

I hope you enjoy them and there is plenty more to come!

Graham

Some random thoughts in regards to new traffic on the CSP...

> George W. Jenista wrote:
>
> HOWEVER, the shortline venture is in unique position to go out and
> find NEW online revenue. It's out there to be had...whether reclaiming
> extant freight service from highways, or taking an active role in
> working to locate new online sources.

I hate to be a pessimist (really I do), but much of the area served by
this railroad is pretty far off the beaten path and is ecomically
depressed compared to other parts of Idaho and Washington.  Unemployment
on the Camas Prairie itself (Idaho County) has been over 10% since 1990.
Locals have been trying to attract new businesses for years, but have
had little success.

If railroads hauled more of the everyday items of life like they did
years ago, the line would be much more viable.  Since the Class One
lines still set the rates and control the car supplies for offline
shipments, CSP RailNet is caught in the middle to some degree and is
limited to the sort of traffic that UP and BNSF want.

On the positive side, I think that an agressively managed excursion
train could be quite lucrative, but this doesn't seem to be forthcoming.
Also, I believe some online fertilizer traffic could be taken from
trucks by utilizing part of that fleet of 70-ton covered hoppers that
came with the line sale and some leased tank cars. This would be short
haul traffic from Central Ferry to Craigmont and Grangeville.  So while
the situation is rather bleak, possibilities do exist.

Jim

Hello All,

> JMWaide@... wrote:
>
> Is the current CSP roster data base for current RailNet locomotives?

Yes.

> If so, would anyone be interested in a historical roster listing BN
> (predecessors too) and UP locomotives (steam & diesel) that worked on
> the CSP since it's inception?

Most definately. I'm currently working on one, and will post it when I
get the chance.  (May be a couple of weeks).  It certainly won't be
complete, esp since just about any NP/BN 4-axle unit could have shown up
on the Highball from Spokane.

> Also, I posted some questions in a previous message that have gone
> mostly unanswered. Could everyone please review my questions and help
> me out?

They're on my list; just have to find the time to find the answers.
Hopefully someone can beat me to it.

I think that you can safely assume that no NP/BN six-axle units (GE or
otherwise) ever ran on the CSP. They were pretty strict about keeping
6-axle units off of branchlines.  When the UP train operated to and from
Hinkle (instead of Ayer), a GE U30C or C30-7 could have been used, but I
don't have any evidence for this.  I did see a UP SD40-2 on that train
though, so it is conceived that a UP GE six-axle could have ran to
Lewiston as well.  CSP RailNet leased a C30-7 at startup for the
Downriver, and it did go to Orofino at least once.

As for the business train, you're the only person that I've ever heard
mention it.  I'll ask around a bit, but my guess is that people will
answer, "Hmmm, that was back in the early to mid 90s..."  If you have
access to a photo scanner, please post the pictures.  If not, you could
send dupes to me and I'll scan them.  (I can scan 35 mm slides and negs
and prints up to 5x7.)

Later,

Jim

Back in the early or mid 1990's the BN ran a short business car train
to Lewiston. The train consisted of two or three BN business cars and
the executive F units. Some trips were made from Lewiston to Orofino
(?) for invited guests of the BN/CSP. I believe the F's stayed in
Lewiston and the passenger cars were pulled up river by GP-38/40's
due to the lack of facilities to turn the F's in Orofino. Anyone know?

Can someone please tell me what were the dates of this movement? I
don't recall any photos of this train in any of the popular RR
magazines. I have some halfway decent photos of the train that were
taken by a relative. Any good photos of this train out there either
on the web or in a publication?

Thank you,

JMW

Group,

Having seen this done on another list, I've created a database of the
all-time roster of CSP.  It can be found at
http://www.egroups.com/database/CSPRailroad.

I've set it up so that any memeber of the CSPRailroad list can add or
edit records, and I hope that this can become a place to share CSP
roster information.

Please let me know what you think.

Pete Kovanda

Hi All,

I'm another modeller from outside the US, interested in the Camas
Prairie.  I live in New Zealand and am currently building a double
deck layout with the upper deck being the Blue Mountains and the
lower deck, the second sub-division of the Camas Prairie.  My
interest is the UP so I'm modelling pre-CSP Railnet.

I was lucky enough for Jim Davis to see my add for photos of some of
the areas of the 2nd sub and am now in possession of some great
photos of buildings & landscape etc.  It is difficult to model an
area that you have never visited though I hope to in the future, so
the help received is appreciated.

As someone else has already mentioned, I hope to be able to set up a
web site with my efforts.

Regards

Scott Rose

Hi All-

We're up to 25 folks now! If you've signed up since Sunday, Welcome!  As
I've said earlier, if the mood strikes, please feel free to introduce
yourself and look back at the archives to meet others who already have.

And now a note about shippers:

Rolland Meyers wrote:

> I hope that the grain producers on the prairie realize the built in
> asset they have and start using it to a greater extent.

I don't mean to contradict Rolland, but according to recent stories in
the Lewiston Tribune, the elevator companies claim that they are already
shipping 80% to 100% of their commodities by rail. Are they being
honest?  I think so, but I can't prove it.  Compared to some of the
shippers in the Palouse Region in eastern Washington, the CSP shippers
seem to have been very supportive.  Lewiston Grain Growers spent $1
million on a new loading facility/yard in Craigmont in the early 90's. I
believe that they are committed to shipping by rail (if only to Lewiston
and the barges there), but they don't seem to be interested in owning
the line or "grubstaking" it.  I have even heard rumors saying that at
least one of the shippers was slow in paying its bills.  That certainly
can't help matters.

Well, I've rambled on long enough.

Good Evening,

Jim

Hello to all:
I sent a message when i signed up on 4/16/00 but apparently it did not
reach Grangeville, and maybe stuck somewhere near Ferdinand!!
Glad to be a part of the CMPR group.  I have filmed the road, but am
missing the JayPee (Orofino sub).
The folks that run this railroad (net)  are wonderful folks.  I know from
my visits that they not only treat their workers well, but they also are
more than willing to share information with others as long as common sense
regarding safety rules are observed.

i have filmed the st maries river railroad from every perspective for the
last ten years, done some other things in the northwest, but the most
scenic of all trips is to have your hand on the grab bar on the front of
the GE B-23's headed down the 3% to the bottom.  what a ride.  I hope that
the grain producers on the prairie realize the built in asset they have and
start using it to a greater extent.  There is also the very valid question
of breeching the dams on the Snake that would cause cessation of barge
traffic.  So the growers of the richest producing (per acre) area of grain
in the u.s. might take a second look at protecting their posteriors and
debts and consider using the steel stairway to Lewiston and beyond!!

(end of intro and editorial)
wonderful to have this become a onelist group...long overdue.
regards,
rolland a. meyers

Hi there,

I live in Nottingham, England. I research the railroads of the Pacific
Northwest. I have little on the Camas Prairie to date other than the basic
outline. I look forward to learning a great deal more about this railroad
from the list. I am very interested in traffic and the customer base from any
period. I collect track profiles and timetables and to date have the profiles
as part of NP and UP sets but little on the timetable front.

Regards,

Peter.

Hello all,
   I have always lived in Seattle but would visit my relatives in
Grangeville almost every year.  The last time was before the change
of
ownership.  I had to leave hours before the weekly train arrived.
That makes me think, I don't believe I have ever seen a train on this
line.  But my fascination with this short line is mind boggling.
Even
if I model another railroad I must include some memory of the Camas
Prairie.
   Thanks and I will watch the Posts.

Too All,

Its great to finally get to converse with true CSP fans after all these
years! I've been watching the CSP for over to 25 years now and have found few
fans that had even heard of it.

I grew up in Southern California but spent my summers in Lewiston and/or
Headquarters. My father taught school during the school year in CA and scaled
logs for PFI in the summers with his father and brother. In the mid to late
60's we spent most of our summers in Headquarters and later stayed in and
around Lewiston. I have some good memories of Headquarters if anyone is
interested.

I started paying close attention to the CSP in 1975 and started taking
photographs in the East Lewiston yard and engine facility. My early photos
were taken with my trusty 126 instamatic. In 1978 I graduated to 35mm
photography and was fortunate enough to spend quite a bit of time
photographing the CSP in and around Lewiston (mostly). In 1980 my family and
I moved up to Lewiston to be closer to family members and to get out of the
smog and high prices of Southern California. I did miss my Cajon Summit and
the Loop.

My Grandfather was personal friends with the CSP super at that time so it was
pretty easy getting cab rides to Riparia. Once I got to know one of the
regular UP crews I was able to take two day round trips to Hinkle every so
often. The 859/860 trains ran strictly at night so I missed most of the
scenery. I have some good stories about those runs too for later threads. It
was a good time. While my Lewiston Senior High classmates got drunk and in
trouble (most of the time) I was cruising down river in GP-9's and SD-40's.

In 1983 I enlisted in the military and lost track of the CSP until late 1987.
When I got back the Geeps were gone, replaced by GP-38's/40's. The crew I
rode with was retired and that was that. I didn't get a chance to really
revisit the CSP until the summer or 1991.

In July 1991 I took a cabride on the Logger from Orofino to Revling and in
August rode the Grangeville Local from East Lewiston to Ferdinand. I got some
decent video of those trips that I am willing to share. I sent a copy of my
video to GND a couple months ago. He can comment on how good or bad the
footage is so you will have an idea of what you will see.

Living in Phoenix, AZ now I usually make it up to Lewiston once or twice a
year. My recent visits have limited my CSP watching to East Lewiston and
chasing the Ayer Turn down river in the mornings (sun is never right).

I have quite a few photos (B&W, slides, and prints) of the CSP dating from
1975 to the present. A majority of my work is from 1978 to 1982. I kept
pretty thorough records of locomotives and cabooses that operated on the CSP
during those years. If you want to know if a certain engine ran on the CSP
during those years I most likely can tell you.

That's all for now. Looking forward to exchanging information and sharing
memories with all of you!

Jon Waide
Phoenix

CSP Fans,

I attended Washington State University in Pullman, WA from 1985 to 1989.
While studying there I became intrigued with the BN's Highball and the UP's
Moscow local, usually picking my dorm room carefully so I could watch the
locals do their work in Pullman!  Unfortunately I was at WSU a couple of
years too late.  All I saw of operations on the P&L Branch south of Moscow
was growing weeds.  I did however get a cab ride on the work train charged
with loading ties from the branch from Pullman Jct. to Genesee as it was
being torn up by a contractor.  My girlfriend at the time (now my wife)
lived in Clarkston, so occasional visits were made to the valley.  I was
never very familiar with the CSP until during my sophomore year I purchased
Hal Riegger's book on the CSP.  This gave me the springboard I needed to
start enjoying the CSP and its unique operations.  Since my WSU days I've
followed the activities in SE Washington and central Idaho carefully because
of all the good times I had watching trains in college.

That's all for the intro...I will be traveling to Clarkston for the Easter
holiday and I plan to catch what action I can while in town.  If I see or
hear anything of interest, I'll pass it along next week.

Steve

Hello

My history with the Camas Prairie RR began shortly after I read Mark
Hemphill's excellent article in the May 1987 "CTC Board."  Although I
was just entering highschool at the time, my parents were agreeable
enough to take a weekend drive across the Prairie... and who could
see that line and not want to come back?  When I finally came of the
legal driving age, class 1 branchlines were being sold or abandoned
all around, and I was determined to see all of them I could, so trips
to the CsP were infrequent.  However, after hearing the news that the
UP and BNSF wanted to sell the line, I began making trips on a
virtual weekly basis from my home here in Walla Walla, WA (despite
being a full-time college student!).  Fortunately the Grangeville
local ran on a Fri.-Sat. schedule.

Even though yellow and green 4-motors are no longer based out of
Lewiston, I still enjoy trips to the Camas Prairie, though now I am
more of a scenic observer then a serious railfan of the CsP Railnet.
It will be nice to have a forum dedicated to the Camas Prairie.

Marc Entze

Hi All,

Maybe I am the subscriber furthest from the Camas Prairie.  I live in the
United Kingdom and first read about the Camas Prairie 15 years ago. Last
year I was lucky enough to get the opportunity to visit the line for 2 days.
I saw a bit of action at Lewiston and drove along the Grangeville line (no
train though!).

I am hoping to add a Camas Prairie section to my website with some pictures
by myself and a great collection from JM Waide (I see you have subscribed!!)

I am really interested in hearing what goes on past and present and I will
happily host any material about the Camas Prairie on my website. It would be
really cool if I could get the opportunity to visit again! I am also
planning a model in N scale. I don't have much space but I am sure I can
capture a small slice of the atmosphere.

Regards
Graham

http://www.btinternet.com/~usrailfans

Hello all,

In just two days we've alread got 17 members on the list.  That's great.
If the mood strikes, please feel free to write a short note to introduce
yourself to the others.  Here's mine:

I grew up in Grangeville during the 1970s watching yellow or green GP9s
switch the mills and elevators.  At that time, I longed to see some
other locomotive than those GP9s, but now I surely miss them.  Currently
I live just 30 miles north of Lewiston in Moscow ID, so still can easily
keep an eye on the line.  I'm just beginning a model railroad based on
the CSP, so I'll be able revisit those afternoons spent watching the
geeps.

Regards,

Jim

Garreth and others,

> Would like to know about the January notice of the closing of
> the Spalding to Grangeville, ID division.  If this is accomplished,
> will the remaining three divisions still operate?

That's the plan.  The current word from RailNet is that only the 2nd Sub
(the Grangeville line) is not profitable.  Although if this line is
closed, it will obviously reduce the traffic on the 3rd Sub (Downriver).

I've heard through the grapevine that part of the problem is that CSP
RailNet is not making enough on the G'ville line to make the payments on
it and cover operating expensives, so profits are siphoned from the
other sections to cover that shortfall, which is hard on the whole
operation.  Once the line is abandoned, they'll have to scrap it
immediately to reduce their debt load [I'm speculating a bit]. I believe
that the post from from "Conductor Rick" on yesterday's CSP thread on
Trainorders put things in perspective.

http://cgi.trainorders.com/cz/western/thread.cgi?10236,2

Best regards,

Jim

Welcome CSP fans,

I 'm glad to see some people signed up for the list.

JMWaide@... wrote:

> Have any of you had a chance to take the dinner train operating out
> of Lewiston?

My wife and I rode the dinner train in February, and it was a good trip.
It was a bit slow, taking over 4 hours to make a roundtrip from downtown
Lewiston up the river to Lenore and back.

The scenery was a bit drab, since it was mid-February, but we saw lots
of water fowl - ducks, geese, herons, and a bald eagle.  The interior of
the cars are white, mauve (well pink actually) and green... a bit dated
perhaps. The food was good (not 4-star, but quite edible) and plentiful.
Everyone on board seem to have a great time, and the service was good.

I've only rode a few dinner trains, and the best was the Mt Hood RR
operation.  If it gets a "10", I'd say that the CSP train was a 7 or 8.
Other than the dated interior of the cars, I had only two compliants.
The giant baked potato was not quite done in the center (but it was so
big I got plenty from the outer 2/3s), and the choice of beer was poor.
They had a very extensive wine list, but offered only canned Bud as I
remember.

> The trip was cancelled by the dinner train management due
> to a lack of patrons.

That is very unfortunate.  I hope that is not the trend.  I do suspect
that the local market has been saturated and most patrons will now come
from outside the immediate area.  They'll have to advertise and not
cancel when people do buy tickets.

Jim