There is a new online timetable at
http://www.abkk.com/cn/train/search_station.asp, similar to train.tielu.org,
but faster and with pinyin names. (Note that you will need to disable your
Norton internet security software to follow the individual train links to
open up the timetable for a particular train).

http://www.abkk.com/cn/train/search_train.asp brings up main train numbers
also, very useful. It also shows (complete?) times of each train.

Thanks for info Robin!!!

Hi Phil and everyone,

I agree with Florian: the Quail atlas is the best source of this
information. I find that it takes a bit of practice to identify which
boundary line relates to which bureau, and that Robin Gibbons'
excellent depot list is an invaluable cross reference source.

There seems to be an increasing trend towards cross bureau working
particularly on fast passenger services, but there still appears to
be quite a bit of loco changing around the bureau boundaries.

The area around Xuzhou (itself a sub-bureau of Jinan, and probably
the only place to see ND5s from two different bureaux) would seem to
offer a number of possibilities - as it lies close to the Shanghai
bureau boundary to the south, and not too far from the Zhengzhou
bureau boundary to the west. The boundary with Zhengzhou is shown as
Shangqiu where if I've interpreted Quail correctly, the Jinan, and
Zhengzhou bureaux come together, and the Shanghai bureau boundary is
only a little way to the south at Mulan/Wanglou. There doesn't seem
to be a loco depot at Shangqiu or Mulan/Wanglou  so it may be that
both Xuzhou and Shangqiu see locos from three different bureaux.

I haven't visited this particular part of China, so obviously this is
pure speculation on my part, but it might be worth a look!

One more point about Quail - the most recent publication dates from
1998, and there have been a number of changes since then. The only
change of which I'm aware regarding bureaux relates to Nanchang. This
is now a bureau in its own right and no longer a sub-bureau of
Shanghai.

I hope this is of some help.

Roy.

Dear Phil and others,

A Chinese newsgroup recently showed Beijing`s NY7 hauled passenger trains
(haulage between Kangzhuang and Beijing only):

4433/4(Tangshan-Datong),
K263/4(Beijing - Baotou),
K23/49Beijing - Ulan Batoe) from beijing (east) to  Kangzhuang.

Beijing Depot still has got 6 to 7 working locomotives for these trains.
NY6/7 still are the locos for the government train. 4 locos are kept under
stand-by, always ready for a quick start with this train whenever required
(info from Feb 2004 visit to Beijing depot).

Bureau limits:
Best source is the Quails atlas (see http://railwaysofchina.com/map.htm ).
It is an excellent investment for all rail related activities in China.

Florian

PS: If you like, I may scan the all-China page for you, too.

> No, A ND5 loco will go to Yingkou from Dalian

OK, we thought it reversed at Dashiqiao as it has extra time there in each
direction, but 8 minutes not enough time to run loco around train. Or is
there no need to reverse there?

Thanks

Does anyone have a map of list of boundaries of each "bureau"? I gather loco
changes often take place there.

Thanks

Phil

No, A ND5 loco will go to Yingkou from Dalian


>From: "Philip Wormald" <pwormald@...>
>Reply-To: Diesel_in_China@yahoogroups.com
>To: "China" <Diesel_in_China@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: [Diesel_in_China] Dalian ND5 query
>Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:57:07 +0100
>

_________________________________________________________________
ÓëÁª»úµÄÅóÓѽøÐн»Á÷£¬ÇëʹÓà MSN Messenger:  http://messenger.msn.com/cn

I've added a section on Chinese diesels to my website. There are 29
photos and other information there.

Hope you like them,

Duncan

PS If I've got anything wrong then let me know.

I've added a section on Chinese diesels to my website. There are 29
photos and other information there.

Hope you like them,

Duncan

PS If I've got anything wrong then let me know.

PPS Should have included the URL, it's  :
http://www.railography.co.uk/galleries/chinadiesels/cd_index.htm

New thread on English forum in Railfan.Org:

http://chinacmw.398.cn/ccj/bbs/cgi-bin/topic.cgi?forum=8&topic=103&show=0

Note the picture at Nanjing shed, ALL locos seem to be facing the same way!

The trains K968 and K967 from Dalian - Yingkou look as if they reverse at
Dashiqiao. Are they ND5 on each section please? Or is an electric loco used
out of Dalian?

Thanks
Phil

As well as the one already mentioned:

> China on line timetable EASY link:
> http://www.shike.org.cn/trainInfo/index.asp

These are worth knowing:

In Chinese (OLD timetable), but a click on train number once journey up
shows up ALL stops of any particular train.
http://www.tielu.org/search_train.asp

IN English, VERY useful! Works just like European journey planner, can plan
with "from and to" or with train number. Currently old timetable by looks of
it.
http://www.travelchinaguide.com/china-trains/index.htm

Good example was Shanghai - Nanjing, results were 42 possibilities, and
clicking "GO" gave complete train schedule. EASY STUFF!

(Thanks to Florian for have this info on his site!) VERY useful to the
newcomer!

This looks like the new timetable from 18th April. there are
significant accelerations of some services compared to the current
timetable and some Chifeng trains appear to have returned to Beijing
Bei.

I found it relatively easy to navigate but you need to be able to
recognise the Chinese characters for placenames.

Regards,

Duncan

On 6 Apr 2004, at 12:29, Philip Wormald wrote:

> China on line timetable EASY link:
>
> http://www.shike.org.cn/trainInfo/index.asp
>
> Top left allows train type and train number entry.
>
> Top right brings up map and "info about stations"
>
> Bottom left brings "Info about 2 places" Journey planner?
>
> Bottom right brings up info on main cities
>
> Shame not in English!

China on line timetable EASY link:

http://www.shike.org.cn/trainInfo/index.asp

Top left allows train type and train number entry.

Top right brings up map and "info about stations"

Bottom left brings "Info about 2 places" Journey planner?

Bottom right brings up info on main cities

Shame not in English!

"Shot some photos too. I will scan and post"

Please do, and thanks!

Gary

_________________________________________________________________
Free up your inbox with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! Multiple plans available.
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ct/01/

Hi Phil,

You seem to have had a reply on the website which indicates the
photos were taken between Bengbu and Nanjing (the most recent being a
few weeks ago).

As far as I can see, the locos carry the depot characters for
Shanghai Bureau, Nanjing Dong Depot which would seem to bear this out.

All the best,

Roy.

  --- In Diesel_in_China@yahoogroups.com, "Philip Wormald"
<pwormald@b...> wrote:
> Recent thread on China forum has some great GE photos:
>
> http://www.railwayfan.org/ccj/bbs/non-cgi/usr/3/3_1471_24.jpg
> http://www.railwayfan.org/ccj/bbs/non-cgi/usr/3/3_1471_26.jpg
>
> Complete (4 page) thread is here:
> http://chinacmw.398.cn/ccj/bbs/cgi-bin/topic.cgi?
forum=3&topic=1471&show=25
>
> Anyone know more about this area and how recent these photos are?
>
> Thanks
>
> Phil

Recent thread on China forum has some great GE photos:

http://www.railwayfan.org/ccj/bbs/non-cgi/usr/3/3_1471_24.jpg
http://www.railwayfan.org/ccj/bbs/non-cgi/usr/3/3_1471_26.jpg

Complete (4 page) thread is here:
http://chinacmw.398.cn/ccj/bbs/cgi-bin/topic.cgi?forum=3&topic=1471&show=25

Anyone know more about this area and how recent these photos are?

Thanks

Phil

I have highlighted following details for the smaller Chinese diesels
of the early years. What is mystery to me is the pioneering hydraulic
NY1 built with soviet assistance in 1957. Does anyone have any
details on this type given that this is where the story of diesels in
China begun?


ND1
1958, GANZ-MAVAG [M44]
XVIJV 176/240 (440kW)
Also based on the ND1. The Chinese loco "Jianshe" or The Construction
was fitted with a 16V170.

ND15
1957-1959,1959-1965, Ganz-Mavag
ND15 101-ND15 117,
17 for CNR, 9 for industry

NY1
1957
Built with Soviet assistance

NY14
1973, LEW
RKVD 21A-3 883

NY16
1975, 23rd AUGUST [LDH125]
Sulzer 6LDA28B


Thanks

Mark
UK

There was a photo on Changjiang recently of the sockets on the front
of SS7C 0138, which I have posted on my site temporarily - see
http://www.railwaysofchina.com/images/ss7c_0138_sockets.jpg. I know
that is not a diesel but there appear to be two sockets (on the RHS)
labelled "chonglian chazuo" which I think means roughly "multiple
working sockets", so look out for these.

--- In Diesel_in_China@yahoogroups.com, "huochemi" <rgibbons@n...>
wrote:
> Don't think there are any single units fitted for multiple working
> as standard but DF11G, DF111Z, DF7D, DF4E, DF10 double units are
> (within the double unit).
>
> --- In Diesel_in_China@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Dean"
<mdean187@y...>
> wrote:
> >
> > I'll give the first question a go...
> >
> > Based on a question on another group (World-Diesel-Loco), does
> anyone
> > have any confirmation that no Chinese built diesels for domestic
> use
> > have been fitted with multiple working equipment (control of
> multiple
> > loco from one driver cab)?
> >
> > I am certain classes such as DF, DF4, DF8 do not but question if
> this
> > is true for DF11 and DF4D. These may not be also as 2 x DF11
> > operation does seem to require two crews, one in each cab (at
> least
> > on the photos i have seen). If DF4Ds and DF11s do not have
> multiple
> > working what is the small socket on the front of these cabs used
> for,
> > driver-guard communication perhaps?
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Mark
> > UK

Don't think there are any single units fitted for multiple working
as standard but DF11G, DF111Z, DF7D, DF4E, DF10 double units are
(within the double unit).

--- In Diesel_in_China@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Dean" <mdean187@y...>
wrote:
>
> I'll give the first question a go...
>
> Based on a question on another group (World-Diesel-Loco), does
anyone
> have any confirmation that no Chinese built diesels for domestic
use
> have been fitted with multiple working equipment (control of
multiple
> loco from one driver cab)?
>
> I am certain classes such as DF, DF4, DF8 do not but question if
this
> is true for DF11 and DF4D. These may not be also as 2 x DF11
> operation does seem to require two crews, one in each cab (at
least
> on the photos i have seen). If DF4Ds and DF11s do not have
multiple
> working what is the small socket on the front of these cabs used
for,
> driver-guard communication perhaps?
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Mark
> UK

yes, china plagiates built some loco by the soviets, but I don't
know "ALCO" what is mean???


--- In Diesel_in_China@yahoogroups.com, "joseph wessel"
<wes112@h...> wrote:
> Hi guys
> I was wanting to know if China ever had ALCO built locomotives,
> including anything close to the Plagiates built by the Soviets.
All
> I,ve seen so far are the steam engines and GE,s. So this is a good
> question for a new group
> joe

Joe,

No genuine ALCO diesels or even Soviet copies. The closest were the DF2
which were based on the Soviet TEM-1 which were themselves based on the
ALCO RSD-1. The big difference is that the Chinese used a Fairbanks
Morse derived engine rather than an ALCO copy and as a consequence the
long hood is full height. I don't think there are any still in traffic
on the national system but several did find their way to local railways
and may still be running. I'll try to dig out a picture if I get a
chance.

There were plenty of genuine ALCOs running in China until around 1980
but they were all steam locos.

Duncan

On 19 Mar 2004, at 22:24, joseph wessel wrote:

> Hi guys
> I was wanting to know if China ever had ALCO built locomotives,
> including anything close to the Plagiates built by the Soviets.  All
> I,ve seen so far are the steam engines and GE,s. So this is a good
> question for a new group
> joe
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ---------------------~-->
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> Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US &
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> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> ~->
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Phil,

The NY7 only work between Beijing and Kangzhuang full stop. I haven't
seen one further west for around 10 years. K3/4/23/24 are booked
non-stop to Zhangjiakou but I can't see the NY7 working all the way
through on the rear of the train. There is almost certainly an
unpublished service stop to detach it at Kangzhuang. To the best of my
knowledge, they've never worked east or south of Beijing.

I have seen them on odd trips or short workings around Beijing. For a
time they worked an afternoon local pass from Beijing Nan to Fengtai
but that has been BJ every time I've seen it recently.

As far as reservations are concerned, I can't give you much advice. All
my trips have been for steam photography, not train riding. I always
get a group together and use a Chinese travel company to make all the
arrangements. They provide a guide who sorts all the details out
including the rail tickets. What I do know is that getting train
tickets is a major hassle unless you're prepared to slum it in hard
class or your guide has contacts at the place you're departing from.
There are people who do it all themselves but it looks like hard work
to me. Doing it via a travel company tends to be expensive unless there
are a few of you to spread the cost.

There's no centralised reservation system. The allocation of each class
of accommodation on each train is divided up between different stations
along the route. Many have no allocation at all. There are always some
unreserved hard seat coaches but conditions can be intolerable.

Getting timetables in Beijing is easy. Most of the bookstalls at the
main line stations sell them.

Incidentally, there's a major revamp of rail services scheduled for
April. All the times and workings could change from then.

Duncan


On 20 Mar 2004, at 22:03, Philip Wormald wrote:

> Duncan,
>
> Just like to say a thanks! That's a good start!
>
> When you say NY7 only on first 90 km, do you mean just on trains
> 4431-4 or
> on 3/4, 23/24 and 263/4 also?
>
> Does NY7 come on / off 4431-4 at Beijing or go to / from Tangshan?
>
> Sorry so many questions, never been to China, all new to me.
>
> As you have been what advice can you give me on making some
> reservations
> from England? And how easy to get all line timetable?
>
> Thanks
>
> Phil
>
>
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Duncan Cotterill [mailto:intlgen@...]
>> Sent: 20 March 2004 20:57
>> To: Diesel_in_China@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [Diesel_in_China] ND5 and NY7 query
>>
>>
>> It's a couple of years since I travelled north west from Beijing but I
>> don't think a lot has changed in the meantime. The NY7s are generally
>> used on trains from Beijing (Main Stn) towards Datong and further west
>> via the old main line over Nankou Pass. Most trains now run via the
>> new
>> line to Shacheng which avoids steep gradients.
>>
>> K263 21:20 Beijing - Kangzhuang 23:41 - Baotou 11:10,
>> K264 20:00 Baotou - 07:40 Kangzhuang - Beijing 10:20,
>> 4433/4432 18:08 Tangshan - 23:02 Beijing - Kangzhuang 00:24 - Shuozhou
>> 08:37,
>> 4434/4431 20:43 Shuozhou - 03:41 Kangzhuang - Beijing 07:41 - Tangshan
>> 12:20 look like the best bets for NY7 apart from K3 & K4 to Moscow
>> (and
>> K23 & K24 to Ulan Bator which runs in the same timings).
>>
>> The NY7 used to run through to Datong but now only cover the first 90
>> km or so from Beijing to Kangzhuang. the method of operation is quite
>> unusual. The NY7 hauls the train to Nankou where another loco
>> (probably
>> a DF4 of some description) couples on the back. The pair set off up
>> the
>> 1 in 30 grade of Nankou Pass, reversing the whole train at
>> Qinglongqiao. At Kangzhuang, the NY7 is taken off the back and the DF4
>> continues with the train towards Datong.
>>
>> Sorry, can't help with ND5s.
>>
>> Duncan
>>
>>
>> Quality Railway Photographs on the web at:
>> http://www.railography.co.uk/
>>
>>
>>
>> On 20 Mar 2004, at 19:16, Philip Wormald wrote:
>>
>>> I’m trying to start to get info on some of the diesels and what
>>> passenger
>>> trains they are used on?
>>>
>>> First on my list is the General Electric ND5. Does anyone know of ANY
>>> passenger trains (with train details please!) I know that recently
>>> between
>>> Xuzhou towards Nanjing, 30-40% of the passenger trains were seen with
>>> ND5.
>>> Which trains?
>>>
>>> Also, Henschel type NY7 I am trying to get info for. I know they work
>>> the
>>> Beijing – Moscow train (train 3/4), but where from / to? From
>>> Beijing?
>>> Are
>>> any other passenger trains normally NY7?
>>>
>>> Any other workings for unusual small numbers of experimental or
>>> prototypes
>>> diesels, (or electrics)?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>> ---------------------~-->
>> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
>> Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US &
>> Canada.
>> http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
>> http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/8ZCslB/TM
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ~->
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

It's a couple of years since I travelled north west from Beijing but I
don't think a lot has changed in the meantime. The NY7s are generally
used on trains from Beijing (Main Stn) towards Datong and further west
via the old main line over Nankou Pass. Most trains now run via the new
line to Shacheng which avoids steep gradients.

K263 21:20 Beijing - Kangzhuang 23:41 - Baotou 11:10,
K264 20:00 Baotou - 07:40 Kangzhuang - Beijing 10:20,
4433/4432 18:08 Tangshan - 23:02 Beijing - Kangzhuang 00:24 - Shuozhou
08:37,
4434/4431 20:43 Shuozhou - 03:41 Kangzhuang - Beijing 07:41 - Tangshan
12:20 look like the best bets for NY7 apart from K3 & K4 to Moscow (and
K23 & K24 to Ulan Bator which runs in the same timings).

The NY7 used to run through to Datong but now only cover the first 90
km or so from Beijing to Kangzhuang. the method of operation is quite
unusual. The NY7 hauls the train to Nankou where another loco (probably
a DF4 of some description) couples on the back. The pair set off up the
1 in 30 grade of Nankou Pass, reversing the whole train at
Qinglongqiao. At Kangzhuang, the NY7 is taken off the back and the DF4
continues with the train towards Datong.

Sorry, can't help with ND5s.

Duncan


Quality Railway Photographs on the web at:
http://www.railography.co.uk/



On 20 Mar 2004, at 19:16, Philip Wormald wrote:

> I’m trying to start to get info on some of the diesels and what
> passenger
> trains they are used on?
>
> First on my list is the General Electric ND5. Does anyone know of ANY
> passenger trains (with train details please!) I know that recently
> between
> Xuzhou towards Nanjing, 30-40% of the passenger trains were seen with
> ND5.
> Which trains?
>
> Also, Henschel type NY7 I am trying to get info for. I know they work
> the
> Beijing – Moscow train (train 3/4), but where from / to? From Beijing?
> Are
> any other passenger trains normally NY7?
>
> Any other workings for unusual small numbers of experimental or
> prototypes
> diesels, (or electrics)?
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
>

I’m trying to start to get info on some of the diesels and what passenger
trains they are used on?

First on my list is the General Electric ND5. Does anyone know of ANY
passenger trains (with train details please!) I know that recently between
Xuzhou towards Nanjing, 30-40% of the passenger trains were seen with ND5.
Which trains?

Also, Henschel type NY7 I am trying to get info for. I know they work the
Beijing – Moscow train (train 3/4), but where from / to? From Beijing? Are
any other passenger trains normally NY7?

Any other workings for unusual small numbers of experimental or prototypes
diesels, (or electrics)?

Thanks

Hi guys
I was wanting to know if China ever had ALCO built locomotives,
including anything close to the Plagiates built by the Soviets.  All
I,ve seen so far are the steam engines and GE,s. So this is a good
question for a new group
joe

I'll give the first question a go...

Based on a question on another group (World-Diesel-Loco), does anyone
have any confirmation that no Chinese built diesels for domestic use
have been fitted with multiple working equipment (control of multiple
loco from one driver cab)?

I am certain classes such as DF, DF4, DF8 do not but question if this
is true for DF11 and DF4D. These may not be also as 2 x DF11
operation does seem to require two crews, one in each cab (at least
on the photos i have seen). If DF4Ds and DF11s do not have multiple
working what is the small socket on the front of these cabs used for,
driver-guard communication perhaps?


Thanks

Mark
UK

Just to get the ball rolling, this is the parent page to my notes on
the principal diesel classes.

http://www.railwaysofchina.com/diesel_locos.htm

Further data welcome.