idlewild@... wrote:

>Sure, the server names aren't visible, but popular ones can
>be added quite easily to what is gleanable.

Good point. I'll turn 'em off.

-- Paul

Totals as of 10/2/00 (each bar = $100; $50 or more for the last one):

|||||||||| |||||||||| |||||||||| |||||||||| |||||||||| ||||||||  $5700 needed
|||||||||| |||||||||| |||||||||| |||||||||| |||||||||| ||       $5150
pledged, $550 to go
|||||||||| |||||||||| |||||||||| |||||||||| |                $4050
received, $1650 to go

This message shows the progress toward our minimum goal of $5700, and
serves as a receipt for those who have sent their money. Thanks to
each of you who have sent in your money, pledged or not, to help fund
this exhibit! It will demonstrate the capabilities and
accomplishments of HyperCard to MacWorld attendees, and it will give
information about our mail list and other sources of HyperCard
knowledge and support for years to come.

Whether you have pledged or not, if you haven't sent your money in
yet, please do it now!

We need to receive at least another $550 by October 12, 2000. That
date (less than 2 weeks away), gives me a few days to deposit the
money and send $4600 to MacWorld for the booth rental, which must be
postmarked by October 15th.


# amount date email
1 200 8/26/00 toshikos@...
2 200 9/19/00 brewster1@...
3 200 9/19/00 colin@...
4 200 9/19/00 karlpet@...
5 200 9/20/00 tomrydberg@...
6 400 9/21/00 mdmays@...  ! ! !
7 200 9/21/00 mariaphillips2000@...
8 200 9/22/00 karleen@...
9 200 9/22/00 idlewild@...
10 200 9/23/00 jrorb@...
11 200 9/23/00 acmuzik@...
12 200 9/25/00 rkrivera@...
13 400 9/25/00 dunbarx@...  ! ! !
14 400 9/26/00 anonymous  ! ! !
15 200 9/26/00 songe@...
16 200 9/30/00 J F Sims
17 200 9/30/00 heinrich.arn@...
18   50 9/30/00 antellsw@...
	 ---
total 4050 $1650 more is needed !

Regards,
Bob Stelloh, Treasurer

PS If you see your name instead of your e-mail address above, I
received your money, but I don't know your e-mail address, so please
send me an e-mail. Thanks.
--
Regards,
Bob Stelloh  Hendersonville, North Carolina USA  Zone 7

Now we can view the member list again!

What benefit is that, except to look up a profile?  How many people are
honest in a profile?  Only the adults?

What good is it to scroll through potentially 511 names?  What do you
want?  A mail list or "web" version of AOL?  Whether server names are
visible or not?

And I've already spent more time than I want to trying to get mine to
hide and it won't.

Keep the member list hidden, for moderators eyes only, please.

from Paul's post:
<<In paragraph 12, the "Content" referred to is ... the advertising and
other information supplied by eGroups.  Para 11 ... we own our own
postings, and
are licensing eGroups to distribute it to the members. ...We can archive
our stuff anywhere we want. >>

This is what I saw also, which indicated the possibility that HyperCard
might be useful for stripping any ads out of the messages; manually would
be a joke.  Geoff brought to my attention that the current archiver is
written in HyperCard.  A worthwhile exploration and possibly an
impressive presentation.

<<And, I've made several changes to the parameters for the group.
Attachments are no longer permitted. Anyone can view the messages. The
member list is no longer available for viewing/downloading (this prevents
a SPAMmer from accessing the list).>>

Bravo!  I knew they were modifiable.  Anyone means the public at large,
this makes a more confortable emergency shelter.  I like not being able
to view the member list, similar to what we had before.

I prefer the member list be not visible to anyone, including members.
Anyone from anywhere can "subscribe", do whatever they want, then
unsubscribe, within minutes.   Our previous list did not have that
"feature".  Sure, the server names aren't visible, but popular ones can
be added quite easily to what is gleanable.

Thanks!

R Charles Flickinger
http://homepage.mac.com/idlewild/HCMailListCD.html
Magic is imagination and learning.

Hi,
I have a standalone that children use in school. It features 4 cards
which are navigated to via a menu. The menus are completely customized.
Today one of the children had a card disappear! There is no delete card
menu and no command to domenu delete menu!
The card just went leaving the poor kid on the next card, unable to
navagate back to the card he had been on.
seems weird to me, unfortunatly I binned the app, before I thought to
resedit it back to a stack. Any ideas? Has this ever happend to anyone
else?

cheers

John Johnston

Thanks to Andy Hall and Stewart Macdonald, I passed on your instructions
and they of course worked.

cheers

John johnston

Thanks to everyone involved on keeping the list going, Jacque, Paul,
Jonathan and anyone else I don't kow about.

cheers

John Johnston

Yes. It's good to be home again. Thanks to Paul and Colin I've just
wandered in.

>LOL! And welcome. Now we just have to wait for the others to wander in. :)

G




Have you seen NotationaMan at <http://www.metacard.com/apps3.html>?
Have you visited <http://www.mindspring.com/~note8r/spg3.html>?

As you know, Slide Show is a HC standalone. Just received this bug report:

> I am about to register as I find Slide Show fits my needs well, however
> there is an extention conflict between the app and the Mac extension
> "File Sharing Library v. 8.0.1".
>
> I am running a Mac PowerBook G3 with OS 8.6. I know the conflict is with
> the above extension because I spent about 4 hours slowly shutting
> extensions off until I isolated that one as the problem.
>
> What happens is when you click on the insert image or folder icon in the
> box where you build your show, the application hangs up and you have to
> do a restart.

Ivan
--
OneApp Software
http://www.oneappsoftware.com/

Hi all,

it seems that with 9.04 is appaired a new bug. I have a HyperCard standalone
distribuited as shareware application, it's name is OneApp Slide Show, the
application is very popular and has got very good reviews...
Unfortunately, now a days with the coming of Mac OS 9.x, there is some new
problems... Here are a selection of users feedback related to a new bug, it
appairs a vertical line in each image displayed with QuickTime. The
application uses this command:

     Movie fileToPlay,TYwindowStyle,"card",invisible,nonFloating

Here are the feedback messages:

1)
hi there when i play back a slide show a vertical line appears to the right
of centre on each slide. i'm using a G4 with 256 ram and OS 9.04 thanks

2)
Hi...I'm hoping you might have an idea why I'm having a particular problem
with the slide viewer. When I set up a folder to view, I get a vertical line
thru the approximate middle of the slide. However, when I view the same
image in photoshop or jpgview it does not appear. Any ideas? thanks,

3)
I have just purchased OneApp Slide Show. I am concerned that slides of
photos take by my digital camera (Olympus) have a vertical thin line (gray
to black) to the left of the picture. There are no such lines in the
originals. What could that be? Solution? Thank you

4)
Hello, I just downloaded and installed Slide Show 5.3.3 for Macintosh.
Altough it works fine on my iMac DV (with OS 9.0.4) i have a question about
a nasty (1 pixel width) vertical line wich is visible in every picture. The
line is situated at about 2/3 of the screen width, an goes from the top to
the bottom of the screen. The size of my pictures are 1600x1200 pixels, i
tried all supported screen resolutions and color depth settings without any
result. Other programs with slide show options (like GraphicConverter,
JPEGViewer) do not have these vertical lines with the same pictures, but
these programs cannot show a mix of JPEG and MPEG files wich is a strong
selling point for your program. So if there is a solution (other then just
scaling down the pictures to the screen resolution) please let me know.

Any idea?
Thanks

Ivan Gobbo
--
OneApp Software
http://www.oneappsoftware.com/

--- In HyperCard@egroups.com, "Tony McCoy O'Grady"
<maxiogee@e...> wrote:
> Hi there (everybody?),
>
> When I recently tried to sort a field of text I ran into a
difficulty.
>
> The field I want to sort contains the following (sample) text...
> ---
> t day
> t'day
> t-day
> t:day
> tad
> tád
> tad da
> ted
> ---
>
> Now, when I do a regular "sort text" I get the same result as
when I "sort
> international".

Probably because your list was already somewhat pre-sorted
internationally before you sorted it. Eg. lower cap a sorts before
upper case a internationally but with a plain sort their order is
dependent upon where they appear in the chunk being sorted.
And if that order in the chunk before sorting is the "international"
order then sort and sort international will produce the same
results.

As to your second question, I think you will have to write your own
sort function.

Michael
michael.d.mays@...

Hi there (everybody?),

I sent the following, probably before most people were signed on, so here
goes again....

When I recently tried to sort a field of text I ran into a difficulty.

The field I want to sort contains the following (sample) text...
---
t day
t'day
t-day
t:day
tad
tád
tad da
ted
---

Now, when I do a regular "sort text" I get the same result as when I "sort
international".

What I 'want' to end up with is the entry "tad" to be followed by the entry
"tad da".

"HyperTalk 2.2 The Book"
says of the sort sommand that ... Sort international is "like the 'sort
text' form, except that this form makes sure the ordering of international
(Option-key) characters is correct.

"HyperCard Script Language Guide"
says of the sort command that ... The 'international' sort style assures the
correct sorting of non-English text containing diacritical marks and special
characters, according to the international resources in your System file,
your version of HyperCard, the Home stack, and the current stack.

"The Complete HyperCard 2.0 Handbook"
says of the sort command that ... Sorting with the International parameter
primarily affects the way characters known as ligatures are treated during a
sort. In languages that contain ligatures like ć and ¦ sorting must be
treated differently than using strict ASCII order.

So, what's going on and how do I cure it?

This is only the start of the problem, as I would ideally like my sort to
disregard the punctuation of the hyphen and the comma in "t-day" and "t'day"
and place these entries after "tád" and before "ted".

My preferred final sorting position is
---
t day
tad
tad da
tád
t'day
t-day
t:day
ted
---

Any comments?

Tony McCoy O'Grady
------------------------------------
I grow old ever learning many things
                   Solon 640 - 558 BC

Everyone should send in a dollar each month and we can
rent/own our own server.

On the other hand, gosh, I would have to give up a Coke or two a
month. Gee, I don't know... ;)

Michael
michael.d.mays@...

Can one get posts in digest form on this list?

Thanks,

Jon

>If y'all decide you don't like egroups for whatever reason, I can offer an
>alternative. The name of the server is "sumthin.nu", owned by Rick Myers,
><rik@...>. I learned of him when I was interested in starting up a
>mail list for people that like azaleas. I had joined a list for list moms and
>lurked, and watched them gripe about onelist (now egroups), and praise their
>experiences with sumthin.nu.
>
>He charges nothing, there are no ads, etc. It does not have all the bells and
>whistles that egroups has. It uses the ezmlm program, which is pretty
>flexible and has a lot of options, however, and he is willing to make changes
>within reason. He handles quite a few mail lists, some much larger than the
>HyperCard list.
>
>Anyone who is interested and has specific questions can contact him directly.

Some of other lists that I subscribe to were moved at some point to
eGroups. They have nice features but also some problems. For example,
digests never worked properly, and over the span of several month they
could not fix them. May be they fixed them by now. IU also vaguely recall
some problems with archiving. You can sign up by email but it is better to
do so thru web as there are some options to set. The thing is that after
some time, all lists moved away from eGroups. My point is that this group
should look into alternatives without getting overly ecstatic about
eGroups.

>Although they indicated they would only take 24 hours to process the
>new members, they haven't gotten back to us yet.

In my experience with eGroups, their technical support was never fast and
seldom helpful.

Robert

Stewart Macdonald wrote:

>> The member list is no longer available for viewing/downloading (this
prevents
>> a SPAMmer from accessing the list).
>
>Is it still available for list members to look at? If you look at the member
>list, the email addresses leave out the domain, so a spammer wouldn't be
>able to get our email addresses, unless the member changed their default
>setting "Don't show my details to group members".

Ah... thanks. I'll correct that.

-- Paul

Paul Foraker (paul@...) recycled some electrons by writing:

> The member list is no longer available for viewing/downloading (this prevents
> a SPAMmer from accessing the list).

Is it still available for list members to look at? If you look at the member
list, the email addresses leave out the domain, so a spammer wouldn't be
able to get our email addresses, unless the member changed their default
setting "Don't show my details to group members".


Stewart
--
________________________________________________________________________
| Stewart Macdonald                  |    Cannon Hill Anglican College |
| Computer Guy                       | Brisbane, Queensland, AUSTRALIA |
| <http://homepage.mac.com/tiliqua/> |    <http://www.chac.qld.edu.au> |
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Idlewild wrote:

>I just received an interesting correspondence from the keeper of our mail
>list archives. He indicated that eGroups terms of service will not allow
>him to reproduce messages from our list into our current archive.
>
><http://www.egroups.com/info/tos.html>

Actually, I don't think that's a correct interpretation of the Terms of
Service. In paragraph 12, the "Content" referred to is not our postings,
but rather the advertising and other information supplied by eGroups.
Para 11, for example, is quite explicit that we own our own postings, and
are licensing eGroups to distribute it to the members. So, IMHO, this is
a non-issue. We can archive our stuff anywhere we want.

And, I've made several changes to the parameters for the group.
Attachments are no longer permitted. Anyone can view the messages. The
member list is no longer available for viewing/downloading (this prevents
a SPAMmer from accessing the list).

-- Paul

idlewild@... wrote:

> I'm happy we have a home again.  But maybe we need a house that isn't
> legally controlled by a third party provider.

Yup, I agree. Paul and I see this list as possibly temporary while we set up
something better on a private server. I have a lead on that, so stay tuned.

Also, if we make a move again, it will be under much more controlled
circumstances and notification of all members will be much more immediate (or
probably automatic.) The failure at Best took us all by surprise.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay       |            jacque@...
HyperActive Software         |                  HypActSftw@...
Custom hypermedia solutions  |        http://www.hyperactivesw.com
612.724.1596                 |                  612.724.1562 - fax

Ok all,
	 It seems that Jacque and Paul have their list up and running.  As
promised, I'm going to stop using the HyperCardWorldwide group and move
over to the HyperCard group.
	 So, this will be my last message to this group.  I'll stay
subscribed to it, and if anyone does write here, I'll direct them to the
main group.

Post message:  HyperCard@egroups.com
Subscribe: 	 HyperCard-subscribe@egroups.com
Unsubscribe: 	 HyperCard-unsubscribe@egroups.com
List owner: 	 HyperCard-owner@egroups.com
URL to this page: http://www.egroups.com/group/HyperCard

	 Messy, messy, messy.  But, at least we're all getting back
together!  :)
	 Please, let's start talking about MacWorld again.  We still have a
lot to do.

     /\    /\    /\    /\    /\    /\    /\    /\    /\    /\
******\*****\*****\*****\*****\*****\*****\*****\*****\*****\******
        \/    \/    \/    \/    \/    \/    \/    \/    \/    \/

Do you play Magic: the Gathering?
Try "The Book of Decks" (v2.5.5)  MACINTOSH ONLY

http://user.shikoku.ne.jp/songe/main.html

idlewild@... (idlewild@...) recycled some electrons by writing:

> I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not focusing on legal issues.  But notice that
> our eGroup message "archive" is set for members only.

The owner of this list can change this very easily.

> Another difference is that we are allowed attachments to emails.  With
> the previous service, attachments were doable, but widely discouraged.

I'd like to see attachments disabled. The list owner can also do this very
easily. I'd like to see attachments disabled because it will stop
HTML-formatted messages from getting through. Well, it actually just removes
the HTML, and a plain text version is sent to the list. This means that we
won't get those annoying graphic adverts coming through on the list.



Stewart

CC: Geoff Duncan

I just received an interesting correspondence from the keeper of our mail
list archives.  He indicated that eGroups terms of service will not allow
him to reproduce messages from our list into our current archive.

<http://www.egroups.com/info/tos.html>

I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not focusing on legal issues.  But notice that
our eGroup message "archive" is set for members only.  Our current
(previous) archive is public, anyone in the world can connect to it,
search and find information about how to do something specific with
HyperCard.

Another difference is that we are allowed attachments to emails.  With
the previous service, attachments were doable, but widely discouraged.  I
do not know if changing the "unmoderated" option affects the ability to
attach files to messages sent to the list.  I kinda like unmoderated.
But will allowing uploads here limit our space for messages, and our
archive?  Is there much difference between no backup and the oldest parts
of our archive rolling off the server?

I'm of the impression that Geoff would be able to archive messages posted
here, with the mail list's permission, but the major snafu could be that
he would have to glean eGroups advertisers messages from them before they
were added to the public archive he's maintained.  That's time consuming.
  Perhaps this is a job for HyperCard, it can glean the ads out of the
messages before they are added to the archive?

eGroups reserves the right to limit server space, which would imply they
can limit how far back our message archive goes.  If older messages can
be rolled off the server, how does this benefit new members?  Will we be
answering questions over and over again from time to time because the
answers rolled off when server space was at a premium.  Perhaps we were
doing that on best.com anyway.

Geoff Duncan explained to me that he offered the mail list services long
ago, because of the (lack of) backup issues at best.com, perhaps we
should consider what's going on here.  Geoff has done a fine work with
our current archive.

The message archives here ARE DIFFERENT than the ones we have under
Geoff's care.  His conversation made me think a bit about these issues.
They are real.

I don't want to make mountains out of molehills and vice versa.  Geoff
did indicate our archive with him (18 mos worth?) is in jeopardy; a
public resource of technical information about HyperCard is not going to
continue to grow unless we do something different.  There is an advantage
to having our archives off the main list server.

Yesterday, I was under the impression we could go to Macworld and let
people know there was a searchable archive of HyperCard information,
today I'm not confident we can do that.  The link to
www.quibble.com/hclist on the HyperCard Mail List CD may not work after a
while.  And the purpose of our Macworld exhibit is to let people know
that there will be support for the software over the next several years
through the information resources we create.

I think quite a few years of technical information can be stored on the
10-20 GB hard drives on these new Macs.  And I'll admit OSX is laden with
web server software.  This list has proven it is more than the many lists
on eGroups, it is an organization.  If we can put together funds for
exhibit space, this year and perhaps subsequent years, we can come up
with a fraction of that to support the hardware for our own list server
that would not have to be shared with other mail lists as this one, or
the one we were located at before.

Something to think about.  Perhaps a collaboration between Geoff and
Alain, where the archive is mirrored and the responsibility is shared and
protected by our peers.  Places where we can learn first hand skills
useful in our own careers from their handiwork.  That's my impression of
most professional partnerships.  IMHO this list is a partnership of
professionals when compared to other lists.

I'm happy we have a home again.  But maybe we need a house that isn't
legally controlled by a third party provider.  This really brings home
the question, how serious are we about keeping HyperCard alive and useful
to people that don't want to pull their hair out of their heads to create
a rolodex on their Mac in 2002.

Yours truly

R Charles Flickinger
http://homepage.mac.com/idlewild/HCMailListCD.html
Magic is imagination and learning.

Hi there (everybody?),

When I recently tried to sort a field of text I ran into a difficulty.

The field I want to sort contains the following (sample) text...
---
t day
t'day
t-day
t:day
tad
tád
tad da
ted
---

Now, when I do a regular "sort text" I get the same result as when I "sort
international".

What I 'want' to end up with is the entry "tad" to be followed by the entry
"tad da".

"HyperTalk 2.2 The Book"
says of the sort sommand that ... Sort international is "like the 'sort
text' form, except that this form makes sure the ordering of international
(Option-key) characters is correct.

"HyperCard Script Language Guide"
says of the sort command that ... The 'international' sort style assures the
correct sorting of non-English text containing diacritical marks and special
characters, according to the international resources in your System file,
your version of HyperCard, the Home stack, and the current stack.

"The Complete HyperCard 2.0 Handbook"
says of the sort command that ... Sorting with the International parameter
primarily affects the way characters known as ligatures are treated during a
sort. In languages that contain ligatures like ć and ¦ sorting must be
treated differently than using strict ASCII order.

So, what's going on and how do I cure it?

This is only the start of the problem, as I would ideally like my sort to
disregard the punctuation of the hyphen and the comma in "t-day" and "t'day"
and place these entries after "tád" and before "ted".

My preferred final sorting position is
---
t day
tad
tad da
tád
t'day
t-day
t:day
ted
---

Any comments?

Tony McCoy O'Grady
------------------------------------
I grow old ever learning many things
                   Solon 640 - 558 BC

>> Gee but it's great to be back home!
>
> LOL! And welcome. Now we just have to wait for the others to wander in. :)
>

Wander...meander...wander...meander....Oh there you are!





------------------Seth Willits---------------
Microsoft is to Apple as Honda is to Ferrari
_____ http://freaksoftware.tripod.com/ ______

Tony McCoy O'Grady wrote:
>
> Gee but it's great to be back home!

LOL! And welcome. Now we just have to wait for the others to wander in. :)

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay       |            jacque@...
HyperActive Software         |                  HypActSftw@...
Custom hypermedia solutions  |        http://www.hyperactivesw.com
612.724.1596                 |                  612.724.1562 - fax

Gee but it's great to be back home!

Tony McCoy O'Grady
---------------------------------------------
Citius....... Altius......... Fortius........
Faster sales. Higher profits. Stronger drugs.

Just seeing how I should set my Eudora filters.

testing

Jacqueline Landman Gay wrote:

>testing, sorry

That's OK, dear; it's just you & me so far.

I've sent off the 513 names to eGroups for their inputting (limit is 50
per day, otherwise).

-- Paul

I have posted an announcement at my web site regarding the change in
list status:

  http://www.hyperactivesw.com/maillist.html

In brief: a catastrophic hard drive crash at BEST.com caused the loss
of all email lists on their server. The person who wrote the list
software is no longer working there, and BEST has decided to
discontinue their list service. The HyperCard list has moved to
egroups.com for at least a while until we decide whether this should
be a permanent home for us or not.

This message is also a test to initialize the list.