Hi,

In my opinion, SuperCard is closer to HyperCard than anything else
available. Surely, it has its peculiarities, but Revolution has more.
It has a few bugs, but Revolution has more. Then again, it has lots of
features, but Revolution has more.

I like SuperCard for being simple, reliable and stable. I also like it
because it is very much Mac-like and because there are lots of useful
externals available for free. I have used SuperCard to use several
nice projects for clients of mine and always have lots of fun while
working with it, while I'm always very frustrated about Revolution,
where everything works more or less as expected but not quite. There
are also a few things that are simply impossible with SuperCard, such
as creating cross-platform software, which means that I still use
Revolution for the majority of my projects. Obviously, I don't mean
that everything is possible with Revolution. I believe both have their
advantages and disadvantages and I don't regret having paid for either
of them.

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
Snapper Screen Recorder 2.1 http://snapper.economy-x-talk.com

If you sent me an e-mail before 21 June and haven't got a reply yet,
please send me a reminder.


On 5 jul 2009, at 14:10, Jacob Palme wrote:

> At 00.30 +0200 09-06-09, Daniel Riaño wrote:
>>> Revolution has won me over. If you know HC, you already know this,
>>> too.
>>> There are a few head changes, but not many, and the end result is
>>> a wonderland
>
> I have been using Hypercard at lot and have two stacks I am
> still using. One of them, I tried to convert. First to
> Supercard, which did not work at all. Then to Revolution,
> which worked after about an hour of minor changes to
> scripts.
>
> The other stack is more complex, there are invisible errors
> in it which cause some card to crash. So I guess I will
> never be able to migrate it to a living platform.
>
> The other objection to migrating to Leopard is an old
> program called "Adressbook". My intention is to write a
> replacement program using REALbasic. When that is done,
> everything I have which depends on Classic has been
> migrated to OS X.
>
> I regret the money I paid for buying Supercard, I should
> have tested it more before paying for it.
> --
> Jacob Palme <jpalme@...> (Stockholm University and KTH)
> for more info see URL: http://www.dsv.su.se/jpalme/
>

At 00.30 +0200 09-06-09, Daniel Riaño wrote:
> >Revolution has won me over. If you know HC, you already know this, too.
> >There are a few head changes, but not many, and the end result is a
wonderland

I have been using Hypercard at lot and have two stacks I am
still using. One of them, I tried to convert. First to
Supercard, which did not work at all. Then to Revolution,
which worked after about an hour of minor changes to
scripts.

The other stack is more complex, there are invisible errors
in it which cause some card to crash. So I guess I will
never be able to migrate it to a living platform.

The other objection to migrating to Leopard is an old
program called "Adressbook". My intention is to write a
replacement program using REALbasic. When that is done,
everything I have which depends on Classic has been
migrated to OS X.

I regret the money I paid for buying Supercard, I should
have tested it more before paying for it.
--
Jacob Palme <jpalme@...> (Stockholm University and KTH)
for more info see URL: http://www.dsv.su.se/jpalme/

Hi Alain,
I brought a friend along who's been checking out the jazzfest but lucky me, I
gotta work at this conference which is at the Delta Hotel downtown.
I can meet wherever and whenever you want.
It's just minor invoicing and accounting issues with this HC program that I hope
can be fixed.
Thanks for responding.
Mike

--- On Sat, 7/4/09, Alain Farmer <alain_farmer@...> wrote:

From: Alain Farmer <alain_farmer@...>
Subject: Re: [HC] Any HyperCard users in Montreal, Quebec?
To: HyperCard@yahoogroups.com
Received: Saturday, July 4, 2009, 1:35 PM



















Hi mike monner.



> I'm visiting Montreal this weekend



Welcome to Montreal, Mike!  :-)

Probably for the Jazz Fest, eh!  :-)



> and would like to meet with a user

> who's very knowledgeable in HC

> as I'm having some issues.



I guess that's ME because :



* I live in Montreal;

* I have been using HyperCard since 1987;

* I have been scripting since 1988.

* I have authored MANY complex projects with HC.



On the other hand, I'm not sure just how available I can be, at such late
notice. Sunday afternoon is about the only time I can be available. Get in touch
with me via e-mail ; I read them every day.



> I brought my laptop so I could show

> you the program and maybe you could

> tweak it to make it run better.

> I'll buy you dinner!

> Thanks,

> Mike



I'm looking forward to meeting you,  :)



Alain



____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier.  Optimized for Yahoo!  Get
it Now for Free! at http://downloads. yahoo.com/ ca/internetexplo rer/


























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi mike monner.

> I'm visiting Montreal this weekend

Welcome to Montreal, Mike!  :-)
Probably for the Jazz Fest, eh!  :-)

> and would like to meet with a user
> who's very knowledgeable in HC
> as I'm having some issues.

I guess that's ME because :

* I live in Montreal;
* I have been using HyperCard since 1987;
* I have been scripting since 1988.
* I have authored MANY complex projects with HC.

On the other hand, I'm not sure just how available I can be, at such late
notice. Sunday afternoon is about the only time I can be available. Get in touch
with me via e-mail ; I read them every day.

> I brought my laptop so I could show
> you the program and maybe you could
> tweak it to make it run better.
> I'll buy you dinner!
> Thanks,
> Mike

I'm looking forward to meeting you,  :)

Alain


       __________________________________________________________________
The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier.  Optimized for Yahoo!  Get
it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/

I'm visiting Montreal this weekend and would like to meet with a user who's very
knowledgeable in HC as I'm having some issues. I brought my laptop so I could
show you the program and maybe you could tweak it to make it run better. I'll
buy you dinner!
Thanks,
Mike

David, in the "sorted by..." line, you might want to make it more obvious
that clicking will reveal drop-down menus. Adding downward-pointing
arrowheads would help, or you could use buttons like the ones shown here:

http://www.echoecho.com/htmlforms11.htm

James


**************
Dell Summer Savings: Cool Deals on Popular Laptops –
Shop Now!
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222696924x1201468348/aol?redir=http:%2\
F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2D1)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm glad you like it.  I should have been clear, we don't want to publicize it
yet (want to fix that bug first).  So please don't pass it on.


--- In HyperCard@yahoogroups.com, Mark Schonewille <m.schonewille@...> wrote:
>
> Hi David,
>
> That's fun. I'll be a Noble prize winner... :-D
>
> --
> Best regards,
>
> Mark Schonewille
>
> Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
> http://economy-x-talk.com
> Snapper Screen Recorder 2.1 http://snapper.economy-x-talk.com
>
> If you sent me an e-mail before 21 June and haven't got a reply yet,
> please send me a reminder.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 1 jul 2009, at 20:04, David Karger wrote:
>
> > Thanks for your help.  What I am building is here:
> > http://people.csail.mit.edu/karger/Dido/editme.html
> > (click the help button for an explanation).
> > We are working on fixing an IE bug before releasing it, but since
> > you asked....
> >
>

Hi David,

That's fun. I'll be a Noble prize winner... :-D

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
Snapper Screen Recorder 2.1 http://snapper.economy-x-talk.com

If you sent me an e-mail before 21 June and haven't got a reply yet,
please send me a reminder.






On 1 jul 2009, at 20:04, David Karger wrote:

> Thanks for your help.  What I am building is here:
> http://people.csail.mit.edu/karger/Dido/editme.html
> (click the help button for an explanation).
> We are working on fixing an IE bug before releasing it, but since
> you asked....
>

Thanks for your help.  What I am building is here:
http://people.csail.mit.edu/karger/Dido/editme.html
(click the help button for an explanation).
We are working on fixing an IE bug before releasing it, but since you asked....

--- In HyperCard@yahoogroups.com, Alain Farmer <alain_farmer@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hello David Karger,
>
> > Hi, I'm a researcher who has not used
> > hypercard but has a question about it
> > (I'm building a related tool).
>
> Pray tell : what are you building ? :)  What's your field ?
>
> > I understand that complex behaviors
> > were generally implemented by associating
> > appletalk scripts with buttons.
>
> HyperTalk scripts. AppleTalk is Apple's networking framework. From this we got
AppleEvents which HyperCard / HyperTalk reacted to by trapping the "on
appleEvent" event.
>
> > But what could someone do with no scripting?
> > Was there any mechanism for authoring any
> > complex behaviors _visually_?
>
> It's not what you meant, but FYI there was a "buttonTasks" feature that allows
one to script a button by interacting with a user-friendly form. It's visual,
not textual, you see what I mean.  ;-)
>
> > For example, if I wanted to be able to sort
> > or filter cards by some field, was the only
> > option to write a script to do so and attach
> > it to a button, or was there some "widget"
> > I could stick in a card where I just had to
> > specify which field I wanted to filter on?
>
> Scripting with HyperTalk is SO SO EASY that i guess no one ever bothered to
craft a widget for it. ;-))
>
> Have a nice day,  :)
>
> Alain
>
>
>       __________________________________________________________________
> The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier.  Optimized for Yahoo! 
Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/
>

Hello David Karger,

> Hi, I'm a researcher who has not used
> hypercard but has a question about it
> (I'm building a related tool).

Pray tell : what are you building ? :)  What's your field ?

> I understand that complex behaviors
> were generally implemented by associating
> appletalk scripts with buttons.

HyperTalk scripts. AppleTalk is Apple's networking framework. From this we got
AppleEvents which HyperCard / HyperTalk reacted to by trapping the "on
appleEvent" event.

> But what could someone do with no scripting?
> Was there any mechanism for authoring any
> complex behaviors _visually_?

It's not what you meant, but FYI there was a "buttonTasks" feature that allows
one to script a button by interacting with a user-friendly form. It's visual,
not textual, you see what I mean.  ;-)

> For example, if I wanted to be able to sort
> or filter cards by some field, was the only
> option to write a script to do so and attach
> it to a button, or was there some "widget"
> I could stick in a card where I just had to
> specify which field I wanted to filter on?

Scripting with HyperTalk is SO SO EASY that i guess no one ever bothered to
craft a widget for it. ;-))

Have a nice day,  :)

Alain


       __________________________________________________________________
The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier.  Optimized for Yahoo!  Get
it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/

Hi David,
HyperCard did have the ability to link cards together without any
scripting. You could create a button, open its properties, click the
LinkTo button, navigate to another card or stack, and link the button
to that card or stack. From then on, whenever you clicked the button,
it would navigate to the card it was linked to.
Later versions of HyperCard added a feature called Button Tasks that
expanded on this capability. In addition to navigating to another
card, a button could launch a URL, speak some text, or play a
QuickTime movie, without having to write any scripts. However, there
were never any Button Tasks to do anything more useful like sorting
cards.
HyperCard did come with two stacks, I believe called Button Ideas and
Readymade Fields, that contained a library of buttons and fields with
scripts already written for them that did more useful or interesting
things. These were merely preexisting scripted objects you could copy
and paste into your own stack, though; there was no way to customize
their behavior or create similar objects on your own without writing
scripts.
Although later versions of HyperCard supported AppleScript, the vast
majority of HyperCard scripting was done with its own language,
HyperTalk.

On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 2:52 PM, David Karger<karger@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hi, I'm a researcher who has not used hypercard but has a question about it
> (I'm building a related tool). I understand that complex behaviors were
> generally implemented by associating appletalk scripts with buttons. But
> what could someone do with no scripting? Was there any mechanism for
> authoring any complex behaviors _visually_? For example, if I wanted to be
> able to sort or filter cards by some field, was the only option to write a
> script to do so and attach it to a button, or was there some "widget" I
> could stick in a card where I just had to specify which field I wanted to
> filter on?
>
> Thanks
> David Karger
>
>



--
Hasta la pasta,
Rebecca Bettencourt.
------------------------------------------------------------
I tried the real world once; didn't really care for it.

Hi, I'm a researcher who has not used hypercard but has a question about it (I'm
building a related tool).  I understand that complex behaviors  were generally
implemented by associating appletalk scripts with buttons.  But what could
someone do with no scripting?  Was there any mechanism for authoring any complex
behaviors _visually_?  For example, if I wanted to be able to sort or filter
cards by some field, was the only option to write a script to do so and attach
it to a button, or was there some "widget" I could stick in a card where I just
had to specify which field I wanted to filter on?

Thanks
David Karger

Hi, all.

I received this from Joe Navarro, who came across my HyperCard
webpages, and I thought someone here might be interested in taking
him up on his generous offer:

At 10:59 AM -0700 6/26/2009, Joseph Navarro wrote:
>I wandered onto your site jaedworks.com via google and was wondering
>if you know of anywhere that I could donate all my hypercard
>software , supercard software , books, manuals and all the extras
>that I collected when I did my senior design project for my BS in
>civil engineering. I created a GIS system for a civil engineering
>topic using hypercard and I went overboard on buying software and
>books and manuals so that I could learn and show as much of
>Hypercard's abilities to my instructor. It was a great learning and
>programming experience. But I have not used the software and texts
>for quite sometime and I was loathe to throw them away. I have two
>boxes of books (lots and lots of books) and software related to
>hypercard. I also have the related system 7 software, a working Mac
>SE, and Deskwriter printer that still works, although I did replace
>the hard drive of the Mac SE with an external drive when the
>internal drive crashed. I would also like to donate the system and
>printer as well
>I hope to find them a good home.
>Any ideas?
>I live in Sacramento, CA and I can drive a reasonable distance to
>deliver them for free to a good home.
>
>Let me know if you know of someone who could put them to good use.
>Feel free to pass this email on to someone else who might be able to
>help me find my first mac and hypercard archive a good home
>Thanks
>Joe Navarro
>transactions2006@...

(Please send replies to him at the above email address.)
--
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ jaed@...
http://www.jaedworks.com

On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 12:49 PM, Richard Gaskin <Ambassador@...
> wrote:

> Paul Foraker wrote:

> (As you know) I've been gradually making the switch from HC to
> > Rev. I'm finding the transition pretty painless (minus
> > backgrounds)
>
> Perhaps you meant, "plus groups". :)
>
> With shared groups I can do pretty much anything I could with HC, but being
> able to have any number of groups on a card, and have complete control over
> which ones are shared, opens up a lot of options I've never had before.
>

Yes, Richard! Thanks for the reminder to achieve a positive attitude, by
clarifying the process of the past. It actually took me a long time to
figure out groups, due to strong resistance to change. I was very attached
to HyperCard and all its features. Now, of course, I would fret over having
to go back.

-- Paul


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In HyperCard@yahoogroups.com, Paul Foraker <paul.foraker@...> wrote:
> Rev might be better than where HC was headed when it died.
> HC 3.0 was going to be based on QuickTime, and would have
> included a lot of animation-ability. I think the focus might
> be more interesting with Rev.
>
> (As you know) I've been gradually making the switch from HC to
> Rev. I'm finding the transition pretty painless (minus
> backgrounds)

Perhaps you meant, "plus groups". :)

With shared groups I can do pretty much anything I could with HC, but being able
to have any number of groups on a card, and have complete control over which
ones are shared, opens up a lot of options I've never had before.

On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 7:24 PM, J. Landman Gay <jacque@...>wrote:

>
> I think Rev is what HC would have been if it had kept going for the last
> 10 years. It gives me the same sense of power and accomplishment that HC
> did. It uses all the skills I already had -- only in color.


Rev might be better than where HC was headed when it died. HC 3.0 was going
to be based on QuickTime, and would have included a lot of
animation-ability. I think the focus might be more interesting with Rev.

(As you know) I've been gradually making the switch from HC to Rev. I'm finding
the transition pretty painless (minus backgrounds), and in some cases pretty
exciting (especially the speed).

Almost everything I've done so far has involved converting dozens of legacy
HC stacks to Rev. This one,

   http://www.whitefeather.com/tools/makehtml/

my first shareable standalone, was created from scratch, but uses a lot of
scripts I originally did in HyperCard, but have tweaked to take advantage of
faster, easier features in Transcript. And, it runs on Windows (not my
fault).

-- Paul


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

dannygelder wrote:
> I was the one who asked why you like Revolution

I think Rev is what HC would have been if it had kept going for the last
10 years. It gives me the same sense of power and accomplishment that HC
did. It uses all the skills I already had -- only in color.

> I'm only passingly familiar with it anyway, my impression is that it
> is much more technically capable but much less intuitive.

Possibly, although just about everything that worked in HC will work the
same way in Rev, so a developer can work at any level. There are a few
exceptions, mostly because of cross-platform issues. You do have to
learn a new IDE, unless you want to write your own (which several people
have. It's all just stacks and scripts.)

But since Revolution has more capabilities than HC, it makes sense that
it will be more complex. A person can learn as much or as little as they
want. If they don't want to mess with sockets, arrays, databases,
internet, etc. they don't have to. They can use it pretty much as they
did HC and it will still work.

There's a free 30-day trial if you're curious.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque@...
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

I think you message sums things up precisely. It also seems that the
manufacturers have
lost sight of the intuitive aspect in favour of an escalator to ever more
incredible
tachnical capabilities. This probably means that it is shifting its marketplace.

--- In HyperCard@yahoogroups.com, "dannygelder" <dannygelder@...> wrote:
>
> I was the one who asked why you like Revolution, so I think asking me why I
don't like it before answering is deflection of the question. I'm only passingly
familiar with it anyway, my impression is that it is much more technically
capable but much less intuitive.
>
>
> --- In HyperCard@yahoogroups.com, "J. Landman Gay" <jacque@> wrote:
> >
> > Richmond Mathewson wrote:
> >
> > > However, I do wonder why, you, Danny Gelder, seem to be anti-Runtime
Revolution;
> > > after Jacque's message the boot is now on the other foot.
> >
> > Dan's our resident churl, but we're fond of him anyway. :)
> >
> > --
> > Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque@
> > HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> >
>

I was the one who asked why you like Revolution, so I think asking me why I
don't like it before answering is deflection of the question. I'm only passingly
familiar with it anyway, my impression is that it is much more technically
capable but much less intuitive.


--- In HyperCard@yahoogroups.com, "J. Landman Gay" <jacque@...> wrote:
>
> Richmond Mathewson wrote:
>
> > However, I do wonder why, you, Danny Gelder, seem to be anti-Runtime
Revolution;
> > after Jacque's message the boot is now on the other foot.
>
> Dan's our resident churl, but we're fond of him anyway. :)
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque@...
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>

Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> However, I do wonder why, you, Danny Gelder, seem to be anti-Runtime
Revolution;
> after Jacque's message the boot is now on the other foot.

Dan's our resident churl, but we're fond of him anyway. :)

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque@...
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

--- In HyperCard@yahoogroups.com, Ted Howard <ted@...> wrote:
> I hate to be the guy that only self-promotes, but you should
> take another look at TileStack.com  We're constantly refining
> and improving the experience.  Education is one of the major
> areas we really believe our product can be utilized.  Please
> let me know what you think.

I don't think you need to worry about self-promotion here, not for what you're
offering.  You seem quite earnest about bringing the HyperCard experience into
the 21st century via the web, and everyone here seems very supportive of your
efforts.

There are a few things that I've found keep me from visiting TileStack.com more:

- Demos:  very few right now

- Accounts: very little can be done, or even seen, without an account, and maybe
this has changed (it's been many months since I last tried to log in) but it
seemed the "Retrieve Password" feature was either difficult to find or perhaps
not there.

- Sign up: it seems there was some sort of manual approval process for new
accounts which meant a long lag time between the initial enthusiasm of creating
an account and actually being able to use that account days or even weeks later.

When I got in I was generally pleased with many aspects of the experience, and
see the potential for edu and other uses as the system gets more refined.

But making sign-up smoother and quicker would really help people dive in, and
coming up with more cool publicly-accessible demos would make doing so more
compelling.

In the light the light of Jacque's comments it seems unnecessary to post the
discussion
across to the RunRev Use-List.

However, I do wonder why, you, Danny Gelder, seem to be anti-Runtime Revolution;
after Jacque's message the boot is now on the other foot.

--- In HyperCard@yahoogroups.com, "J. Landman Gay" <jacque@...> wrote:
>
> dannygelder wrote:
> > Thank you.
> >
> > I was trapped in Hypercard for some years...
> >
> > What is most good about Revolution? Especially considering the level
> > of some advanced web-only apps like Facebook, you will have to
> > stretch to answer.
>
> Well, there's the new iRev web page scripting:
> <http://www.runrev.com/newsletter/may/issue71/newsletter2.php>
>
> To be followed next by a Rev browser plugin that will run stacks inside
> a browser window. Pre-release versions of that will be given to
> conference attendees this fall:
> <http://www.runrev.com/newsletter/june/issue72/newsletter2.php>
>
> Rev has had server/web/ftp interaction for years, of course, available
> directly from within a stack. And it's had CGI capabilites since the
> beginning. I'm not sure what type of examples you want though.
>
> The iRev scripting capabilites are what you'd use to build web apps.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque@...
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>

dannygelder wrote:
> Thank you.
>
> I was trapped in Hypercard for some years...
>
> What is most good about Revolution? Especially considering the level
> of some advanced web-only apps like Facebook, you will have to
> stretch to answer.

Well, there's the new iRev web page scripting:
<http://www.runrev.com/newsletter/may/issue71/newsletter2.php>

To be followed next by a Rev browser plugin that will run stacks inside
a browser window. Pre-release versions of that will be given to
conference attendees this fall:
<http://www.runrev.com/newsletter/june/issue72/newsletter2.php>

Rev has had server/web/ftp interaction for years, of course, available
directly from within a stack. And it's had CGI capabilites since the
beginning. I'm not sure what type of examples you want though.

The iRev scripting capabilites are what you'd use to build web apps.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque@...
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

--- In HyperCard@yahoogroups.com, "Richmond Mathewson" <richmond@...> wrote:
>
> I should like to forward your message to the Runtime Revolution Use-List as
there are
> a lot of people there who are better qualified to answer you than I am.
However, I will
> only forward it if you say that is OK.

It is. Can you post a link back here to the discussion over there?

I should like to forward your message to the Runtime Revolution Use-List as
there are
a lot of people there who are better qualified to answer you than I am. However,
I will
only forward it if you say that is OK.

--- In HyperCard@yahoogroups.com, "dannygelder" <dannygelder@...> wrote:
>
> Thank you.
>
> I was trapped in Hypercard for some years...
>
> What is most good about Revolution? Especially considering the level of some
advanced web-only apps like Facebook, you will have to stretch to answer.
>
> Dan
>
> --- In HyperCard@yahoogroups.com, "Richmond Mathewson" <richmond@> wrote:
> >
> > Well; on your website I found something called "SimpleAlertDebug.app" that
featured a
> > sort of red teapot thing on a kitschy background that slowed my G4 dual
processor 2 GB RAM down to a crawl, and another online thing with 4 points that
could be moved around by setting parameters. Personally I much preferred the
second.
> >
> > However, maybe its the fact that its 40 degs C here in Bulgaria plus high
humidity, but I am quite unable to see the connexion of either of your offerings
with some sort of xTalk IDE (such as SERF).
> >
> > I mentioned SERF in an off-hand sort of way in a facetious posting on the
Runtime Revolution use-list, comparing Revolution to a Haggis; this is because I
believe your SERF
> > is a classic example of "unrealised potential". It, if developed further,
could act as a gadfly
> > to some other xTalk products which could be in danger of becoming
over-confident and, as a result, rather slack in some areas.
> >
> > This summer I shall be doing my usual 'nonsense' and teach several 10-12
year olds fundamentals of programming using  the version of Runtime Revolution
(2.2.1) that was
> > released free by Novell for Linux a few years back (on some cranky, old P
III s running Ubuntu). The grotty thing about that is that most of those kids
have access to Windows computers at home, and I can only furnish them with
Metacard 2.5 or Revolution 2.0 at the end of their work; both of which are
crippled to 10 lines of code.
> >
> > Now, were there another IDE that had the capabilities of Revolution 2 / MC
2.5 (later versions are moving away from PC-based applicatons and into
Server-side stuff) that
> > was available for the 3 dominant OSes at a reasonable price (not many
preteens or their Mum's and Dad's are going to shell out $200 or so for that) I
would switch over directly:
> > Although, I hasten to add, only for that purpose as I have heavily invested
a lot of my own money, time and energy in Runtime Revolution.
> >
> > --- In HyperCard@yahoogroups.com, "dannygelder" <dannygelder@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I have a kind of lame-assed technology demo online for those who are still
wondering about the possibility of a Serf 2.
> > >
> > > http://thirdhandapp.com
> > >
> > > Well, enjoy!
> > > Dan
> > >
> >
>

A web page is a little bit smaller than an entire (~500 megabyte) linux
distribution.

Light-weight is the best trait to follow HyperCard with.

--- In HyperCard@yahoogroups.com, Don <nospamformeSVP@...> wrote:
>
> Richmond Mathewson wrote:
>
> >
> > This summer I shall be doing my usual 'nonsense' and teach several
> > 10-12 year olds fundamentals of programming using  the version of
> > Runtime Revolution (2.2.1) that was released free by Novell for Linux
> > a few years back (on some cranky, old P III s running Ubuntu). The
> > grotty thing about that is that most of those kids have access to
> > Windows computers at home, and I can only furnish them with Metacard
> > 2.5 or Revolution 2.0 at the end of their work; both of which are
> > crippled to 10 lines of code.
> >
>
> Have you considered packaging up a VMware virtual appliance for them?
> http://www.vmware.com/appliances/
>
> You could make a Ubuntu VM [*] with that old RR on it and give it to the
> kids.  Any reasonably modern PC will run this VM just fine and all of
> the components are free.
>
> You could probably use this one right out of the box:
> http://www.vmware.com/appliances/directory/1224
>
> Don.
>

Richmond Mathewson wrote:

>
> This summer I shall be doing my usual 'nonsense' and teach several
> 10-12 year olds fundamentals of programming using  the version of
> Runtime Revolution (2.2.1) that was released free by Novell for Linux
> a few years back (on some cranky, old P III s running Ubuntu). The
> grotty thing about that is that most of those kids have access to
> Windows computers at home, and I can only furnish them with Metacard
> 2.5 or Revolution 2.0 at the end of their work; both of which are
> crippled to 10 lines of code.
>

Have you considered packaging up a VMware virtual appliance for them?
http://www.vmware.com/appliances/

You could make a Ubuntu VM [*] with that old RR on it and give it to the
kids.  Any reasonably modern PC will run this VM just fine and all of
the components are free.

You could probably use this one right out of the box:
http://www.vmware.com/appliances/directory/1224

Don.

On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 5:58 AM, Richmond Mathewson
<richmond@...> wrote:
>
>
> Now, were there another IDE that had the capabilities of Revolution 2 / MC 2.5
(later versions are moving away from PC-based applicatons and into Server-side
stuff) that
> was available for the 3 dominant OSes at a reasonable price (not many preteens
or their Mum's and Dad's are going to shell out $200 or so for that) I would
switch over directly:

I hate to be the guy that only self-promotes, but you should take
another look at TileStack.com  We're constantly refining and improving
the experience.  Education is one of the major areas we really believe
our product can be utilized.  Please let me know what you think.

Ted

--
Ted C. Howard
Chief Hacker
TileStack.com - Your Creative Playground

Thank you.

I was trapped in Hypercard for some years...

What is most good about Revolution? Especially considering the level of some
advanced web-only apps like Facebook, you will have to stretch to answer.

Dan

--- In HyperCard@yahoogroups.com, "Richmond Mathewson" <richmond@...> wrote:
>
> Well; on your website I found something called "SimpleAlertDebug.app" that
featured a
> sort of red teapot thing on a kitschy background that slowed my G4 dual
processor 2 GB RAM down to a crawl, and another online thing with 4 points that
could be moved around by setting parameters. Personally I much preferred the
second.
>
> However, maybe its the fact that its 40 degs C here in Bulgaria plus high
humidity, but I am quite unable to see the connexion of either of your offerings
with some sort of xTalk IDE (such as SERF).
>
> I mentioned SERF in an off-hand sort of way in a facetious posting on the
Runtime Revolution use-list, comparing Revolution to a Haggis; this is because I
believe your SERF
> is a classic example of "unrealised potential". It, if developed further,
could act as a gadfly
> to some other xTalk products which could be in danger of becoming
over-confident and, as a result, rather slack in some areas.
>
> This summer I shall be doing my usual 'nonsense' and teach several 10-12 year
olds fundamentals of programming using  the version of Runtime Revolution
(2.2.1) that was
> released free by Novell for Linux a few years back (on some cranky, old P III
s running Ubuntu). The grotty thing about that is that most of those kids have
access to Windows computers at home, and I can only furnish them with Metacard
2.5 or Revolution 2.0 at the end of their work; both of which are crippled to 10
lines of code.
>
> Now, were there another IDE that had the capabilities of Revolution 2 / MC 2.5
(later versions are moving away from PC-based applicatons and into Server-side
stuff) that
> was available for the 3 dominant OSes at a reasonable price (not many preteens
or their Mum's and Dad's are going to shell out $200 or so for that) I would
switch over directly:
> Although, I hasten to add, only for that purpose as I have heavily invested a
lot of my own money, time and energy in Runtime Revolution.
>
> --- In HyperCard@yahoogroups.com, "dannygelder" <dannygelder@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have a kind of lame-assed technology demo online for those who are still
wondering about the possibility of a Serf 2.
> >
> > http://thirdhandapp.com
> >
> > Well, enjoy!
> > Dan
> >
>

Well; on your website I found something called "SimpleAlertDebug.app" that
featured a
sort of red teapot thing on a kitschy background that slowed my G4 dual
processor 2 GB RAM down to a crawl, and another online thing with 4 points that
could be moved around by setting parameters. Personally I much preferred the
second.

However, maybe its the fact that its 40 degs C here in Bulgaria plus high
humidity, but I am quite unable to see the connexion of either of your offerings
with some sort of xTalk IDE (such as SERF).

I mentioned SERF in an off-hand sort of way in a facetious posting on the
Runtime Revolution use-list, comparing Revolution to a Haggis; this is because I
believe your SERF
is a classic example of "unrealised potential". It, if developed further, could
act as a gadfly
to some other xTalk products which could be in danger of becoming over-confident
and, as a result, rather slack in some areas.

This summer I shall be doing my usual 'nonsense' and teach several 10-12 year
olds fundamentals of programming using  the version of Runtime Revolution
(2.2.1) that was
released free by Novell for Linux a few years back (on some cranky, old P III s
running Ubuntu). The grotty thing about that is that most of those kids have
access to Windows computers at home, and I can only furnish them with Metacard
2.5 or Revolution 2.0 at the end of their work; both of which are crippled to 10
lines of code.

Now, were there another IDE that had the capabilities of Revolution 2 / MC 2.5
(later versions are moving away from PC-based applicatons and into Server-side
stuff) that
was available for the 3 dominant OSes at a reasonable price (not many preteens
or their Mum's and Dad's are going to shell out $200 or so for that) I would
switch over directly:
Although, I hasten to add, only for that purpose as I have heavily invested a
lot of my own money, time and energy in Runtime Revolution.

--- In HyperCard@yahoogroups.com, "dannygelder" <dannygelder@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I have a kind of lame-assed technology demo online for those who are still
wondering about the possibility of a Serf 2.
>
> http://thirdhandapp.com
>
> Well, enjoy!
> Dan
>