--- In MOPAC@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Tegs <tegsss@...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone have information on the Missouri Pacific's operations in and
around the Pueblo Colorado Terminal in the 1970-1988 era? What trains went east
and west and where to? What if any locals came to and from Pueblo on the MoPac?

Pueblo and the MoPac were hot and heavy until the SP and Rio Grande combined and
through the UP merger, took away the traffic.  The MoPac, later UP local did run
well into the 80s, but I am not sure right now when it ended.  It could have
been after August 87 when I left Colorado.

The local ran to Horace on M-W-F and returned the next day.  Power was more
toward GP-7s and 18s till about 76ish, when we had a short spate of MP-15s. 
After that, GP-38, 38-2, and 15-1s typical.  Mostly GP38-2s.  We even had the
former RI units still in thier blue for a short time.

Road freights were the likes of the KP and SKP (Kansas City and St Louis/Kansas
City to Pueblo) with the PK and PKS IIRC going back.  Extras happen.   FFT and
ARRO during their select times with empties returning East.  N&W power common
then.  Unit coal began in the mid 70s and continued to end of MP and then some. 
See my article in the PROSPECTOR fo the Rio Grande Modeling and Historical
Society.  I don't recall exact issue date.  I recommend reading this article
(Shameless plug).

Robert R Harmen, DDS

Does anyone have information on the Missouri Pacific's operations in and around
the Pueblo Colorado Terminal in the 1970-1988 era? What trains went east and
west and where to? What if any locals came to and from Pueblo on the MoPac?
Thanks
Andy 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I uploaded a few new photos to the Bagnell Branch web site this morning.  The
title page now shows the Olean depot with new wild flowers growing along the
right-of-way.  The flowers are from Scenic Express flower assortment set.  On
the freight car page, I added the new 52' Tangent Wabash gondola with some some
text on how I weathered it.

I got the proofs this past week from MR and the branch will be in the February
2010 Model Railroad Track Planning issue so you can see the track plan.

Charlie
http://mopac51.tripod.com/

I paid about $38 for mine, and Steve signed it for me.



Barry Bennett

Coventry, England



-------Original Message-------



From: joseph beckman

Date: 11/20/09 02:34:08

To: MOPAC@yahoogroups.com

Subject: MOPAC Steam Power book





Bill,



I bet the book you're thinking of is Texas & Pacific - Color Pictorial - by

Steve Allen Goen and published by Four Ways West Publications, Copyright

1997. It is128 pages of mostly, if not all, color photos of the T&P,

including steam, diesel, rolling stock and depots. That's the good news.

The bad is that ii's apparently out-of-print, though Amazon has three Used &

new from $195, and I know I paid nowhere near that for new in '97.



Joe Beckman










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bill,

I bet the book you're thinking of is Texas & Pacific - Color Pictorial - by
Steve Allen Goen and published by Four Ways West Publications, Copyright
1997.  It is128 pages of mostly, if not all, color photos of the T&P,
including steam, diesel, rolling stock and depots.  That's the good news.
The bad is that ii's apparently out-of-print, though Amazon has three Used &
new from $195, and I know I paid nowhere near that for new in '97.

Joe Beckman

I'm pretty sure it wasn't the T&P book mentioned by John Lee.  It was definitely
MoPac steam.  And I don't think it was the PFM book as it was a hard bound copy
with a considerable number of pages.

It was most likely one of the other two.  Either Joe Collias' "Missouri Pacific
in Color" or Jim Boyd's book.  Thanks to everyone who responded.  It gives me a
starting point to look.

Bill DeFoe



--- In MOPAC@yahoogroups.com, "dsshoemaker" <dsshoemaker@...> wrote:
>
> Off the top opf my head, I can think of 3 books that have good chinks about
Texas lines steam power but are not exclusively Texas lines books-
>
> Collias' Missouri Pacific in Color, The first Volume of Jim Boyd's color
Missouri Pacifi books, and the first part of the short book put out by Pacifi
Fast mail on MP P-73 4-6-2's.
>
> I would be very interested to hear of another book about Texas line staem- It
is someowhat difficult to find good information about these engines.
>
> David Shoemaker
>

Off the top opf my head, I can think of 3 books that have good chinks about
Texas lines steam power but are not exclusively Texas lines books-

Collias' Missouri Pacific in Color, The first Volume of Jim Boyd's color
Missouri Pacifi books, and the first part of the short book put out by Pacifi
Fast mail on MP P-73 4-6-2's.

I would be very interested to hear of another book about Texas line staem- It is
someowhat difficult to find good information about these engines.

David Shoemaker

--- In MOPAC@yahoogroups.com, "cindercrusher" <defoe242@...> wrote:
>
> About fifteen years ago I was attending a train meet in Indianapolis, and I
was thumbing through a book that was for sale, but I didn't buy it.  It was a
photo book of MoPac steam and my memory seems to tell me that it was mostly the
Texas lines of the MoPac.
>
> Does anyone know of the book I am remembering as to title and author?  It was
not Joe Collias' "MoPac Power", which I own.  I really believe it was of the
Texas lines unless my senior memory is playing a stupid trick on me.
>
> Bill DeFoe
>

Hi Bill,

Could the book be Texas & Pacific Color Pictorial by Steve Allen Goen, there is
a picture of the book and a review of it by Jerry Michels in the MPHS web site.
Here is a link to the page. http://www.mopac.org/rev.TPColor.Goen.asp  Maybe
seeing the book will jog your memory. BTW I believe this book is now out of
print if this is the one, last time I saw one for sale it was going for big
bucks.

John Lee
St. Louis, MO



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jerry,

I think that might be the one, because I do remember there were color photos. 
Thanks for the information.

Bill DeFoe



--- In MOPAC@yahoogroups.com, asychis@... wrote:
>
> Bill, Joe's book "Missouri Pacific in Color" had a good number of Texas
> Lines steam locomotives because there were a lot photographed in color
> compared  to the other MP lines. Could this be the book?
>
> Jerry Michels

Bill, Joe's book "Missouri Pacific in Color" had a good number of Texas
Lines steam locomotives because there were a lot photographed in color
compared  to the other MP lines. Could this be the book?

Jerry Michels


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

About fifteen years ago I was attending a train meet in Indianapolis, and I was
thumbing through a book that was for sale, but I didn't buy it.  It was a photo
book of MoPac steam and my memory seems to tell me that it was mostly the Texas
lines of the MoPac.

Does anyone know of the book I am remembering as to title and author?  It was
not Joe Collias' "MoPac Power", which I own.  I really believe it was of the
Texas lines unless my senior memory is playing a stupid trick on me.

Bill DeFoe

Charlie,

Well, I getting similar info from another source.  I guess the idea they went
into Mexico was just wishful thinking.  It appears this car mostly went as far
as Ft Worth or maybe to El Paso on the T&P.

Thanks for your research.

Bill Nash

On Nov 18, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Charlie D modeling the Mopac http://mopac51.tripod
wrote:

> Bill - looking in the June 1952 Official Guide the 5 bedroom lounge cars ran
between St. Louis and Ft. Worth on trains No. 1 & 2 (Texas Eagles).  I remember
as a kid seeing the Alamo picture on the rear wall of the Colorado Eagle.  I
would think the Mopac was merely trying to entice the passengers to travel to
different points on the railroad (or Mexico in this case).
>
> I am pretty sure none of the light weight Mopac cars went into Mexico until
they were sold to the NdeM in the late 1960's.  As to Mopac cars that did travel
into Mexico, there were four 8-5 heavyweight Pullmans the Mopac owned (painted
in NdeM colors) that ran on the Aztec Eagle.
>
> Charlie

Bill - looking in the June 1952 Official Guide the 5 bedroom lounge cars ran
between St. Louis and Ft. Worth on trains No. 1 & 2 (Texas Eagles).  I remember
as a kid seeing the Alamo picture on the rear wall of the Colorado Eagle.  I
would think the Mopac was merely trying to entice the passengers to travel to
different points on the railroad (or Mexico in this case).

I am pretty sure none of the light weight Mopac cars went into Mexico until they
were sold to the NdeM in the late 1960's.  As to Mopac cars that did travel into
Mexico, there were four 8-5 heavyweight Pullmans the Mopac owned (painted in
NdeM colors) that ran on the Aztec Eagle.

Charlie

--- In MOPAC@yahoogroups.com, Bill Nash <bill_nash@...> wrote:
>
> When the Eagle Cliff was being restored a number of years ago, two large
transparencies were discovered that depict scenes in Mexico.  This would suggest
that this was one of the cars that went into Mexico on the Aztec Eagle. Does
anyone have any photos or manifests that would support this idea.  I'm trying to
write a short history of the car and would like to be accurate.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill Nash
>

Ron,

I don't have date for the change, but growing up in the 50's around the St.
  Louis area gates were always black and white (with red lanterns or
electric  lights hanging from them) just like stop signs were yellow and black
and
mail  boxes were olive drab green.

Bill Hoss


In a message dated 11/18/2009 5:09:36 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
ron.merrick@... writes:

Another  thing I'm having trouble with is the striping on the crossing arm
- not this  particular one, but in general.  Crossing arms were and are
white, but  the striping -- red or black?  Or, in the fifties, was it common for
it  to be either?  I remember when Scotchlite was first applied to these,
and  it was a LOT more dramatic than the paint striping, for those of us who
had  low excitability threshholds.

Ron  Merrick



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Another thing I'm having trouble with is the striping on the crossing arm - not
this particular one, but in general.  Crossing arms were and are white, but the
striping -- red or black?  Or, in the fifties, was it common for it to be
either?  I remember when Scotchlite was first applied to these, and it was a LOT
more dramatic than the paint striping, for those of us who had low excitability
threshholds.

Ron Merrick


--- In MOPAC@yahoogroups.com, "Charlie D modeling the Mopac
http://mopac51.tripod" <trduck@...> wrote:
>
> > The picture shown at the following link shows the tower in the traditional
colors. <snip>

> The picture shown at the following link shows the tower in the traditional
colors. It was taken a few years later.
>
>
http://www.westernrailimages.com/Mopac-Missouri-Pacific-Railway/Mopac-Missouri-P\
acific-Railway/7189869_rVm4j#461733061_nknUb
>
> Chris Thies

Chris while the brown is traditional the buff color shown here isn't - the Mopac
used Colonial Yellow which is a yellow orche.  I'm thinking the B&B foreman had
fun picking out colors given these shots.  Bill Ray, who took a lot of early
Mopac shots (we used several of Bill's photos in the 2010 MPHS calendar) told me
he'd photographed an I-GN depot painted in Eagle blue and gray but I never saw
the slides (and) I agree with Bill Hoss' comments I'm glad the blue and gray
wasn't made a standard it's interesting but I'd hate to see a whole railroad
depots and structures painted in these colors.

This is the site for a lot of great 50, 60, 70 images, Dan
http://www.westernrailimages.com/
--- In MOPAC@yahoogroups.com, Allan Willcockson <glascow60@...> wrote:
>
>     Wow Dan!
>  
>     Really liked reviewing those pictures.
>  
>    Do you per chance have more pictures of the Mo Pac in Webster Groves?
>  
>    Saw 1 in your collection.
>  
>    Thanks for sharing!
>  
>            Rgds
>                Allan
>

The picture shown at the following link shows the tower in the traditional
colors. It was taken a few years later.

http://www.westernrailimages.com/Mopac-Missouri-Pacific-Railway/Mopac-Missouri-P\
acific-Railway/7189869_rVm4j#461733061_nknUb

Chris Thies

--- In MOPAC@yahoogroups.com, asychis@... wrote:
>
> This is an oddity to be sure.  Most towers were yellow and  brown.  This
> seems to be a acknowledgment of the Eagles.  Would make a  nice model.
>
> Jerry Michels
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

When the Eagle Cliff was being restored a number of years ago, two large
transparencies were discovered that depict scenes in Mexico.  This would suggest
that this was one of the cars that went into Mexico on the Aztec Eagle. Does
anyone have any photos or manifests that would support this idea.  I'm trying to
write a short history of the car and would like to be accurate.

Thanks,

Bill Nash

    Wow Dan!
 
    Really liked reviewing those pictures.
 
   Do you per chance have more pictures of the Mo Pac in Webster Groves?
 
   Saw 1 in your collection.
 
   Thanks for sharing!
 
           Rgds
               Allan

--- On Fri, 11/13/09, Daniel <railmandan@...> wrote:


From: Daniel <railmandan@...>
Subject: MOPAC Re: Missouri Pacific Switch Stand
To: MOPAC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, November 13, 2009, 8:32 PM


 



Two types, main line and side track in mid 1950 at Barrets Station in Kirkwood
from the Western Rail site, Dan

http://www.westernr ailimages. com/Mopac- Missouri- Pacific-Railway/
Mopac-Missouri- Pacific-Railway/ 7189869_rVm4j# 655966261_ NbTkb

http://www.westernr ailimages. com/Mopac- Missouri- Pacific-Railway/
Mopac-Missouri- Pacific-Railway/ 7189869_rVm4j# 461722426_ uM6nz











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This is an oddity to be sure.  Most towers were yellow and  brown.  This
seems to be a acknowledgment of the Eagles.  Would make a  nice model.

Jerry Michels


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The KO&G from Red River to Durant OK was taken up a very long time ago but from
Durant to McAlister OK was taken up after the UP bought the Katy.The TP may have
bought the KO&G  it was part of the MOP before the merger with the UP. The TP
lines through Sherman came from Whitesboro to Texarkana route fondly called the
intercontinental route by the TP.The Jct. North of the Red River was Frisco
-Katy-KO&G. The Frisco got off south of the bridge.The SSW  ran from Commerce
to Sherman
The SP ran out of Dallas to Sherman and looks like it dead ended at Sherman.The
Katy had a line that ran from Dennison to Sherman.
--- On Sun, 11/15/09, Wayne <biggoogoowagner@...> wrote:


From: Wayne <biggoogoowagner@...>
Subject: Re: MOPAC SP SSW TP in Sherman
To: MOPAC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 7:32 PM


 



Thanks Dale

When did the KO&G get pulled out? Up to where? The KO7G was owned by the T&P
isn't it? I believe the T&P buying the KO&G is what got the T&P-MKT joint line
going?

Thanks
Wayne A Wagner

--- In MOPAC@yahoogroups. com, DALE PECAUT <depecaut@.. .> wrote:
>
> I could write it down here but it would be easier to send you a page out of my
1948 railroad atlas. I will tell you the third line north of the bridge was the
K.O.& G
>
> --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Wayne <biggoogoowagner@ ...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Wayne <biggoogoowagner@ ...>
> Subject: MOPAC SP SSW TP in Sherman
> To: MOPAC@yahoogroups. com
> Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 2:29 PM
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> Here is a post that I put on a SP group site. I'm adding it here believing
that some of what I am asking there about track and routes my very well be old
T&P track in the Sherman / Denison area.
>
> thanks
>
> SP and SSW operations in Sherman / Denison TX
>
> I am interested in the operations of the SP and SSW in Sherman and Denison.
>
> Did the SSW have a yard in Sherman, or did they use someone else's? Where did
the main line come from and go to??? Did it go along South First St and out
along Hwy 11 to Commerce??? is that right? There are two north south branches
that run up and down Sherman. One is along Eastin Rd. Was this always just a
branch to reach industries, or was it part of a now ripped out main line? The
second route runs along Branch St. in Sherman and fallows Theresa Rd going in to
Denison and ends around Crawford St. meeting the MKT. Was this route part of the
SP, SSW, or T&P? How much further south did it go?
>
> Now the SP. Were they the original builders of the joint SP-SLSF line from the
junction south of Sherman up to Denison. How far north did they go? Did they
ever build in Oklahoma? Satellite pictures look like there were three separate
routes coming off north of the Red River bridge at one time. What were SP
operations in Sherman and Denison?
>
> Thanks
> Wayne A Wagner
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks Dale

When did the KO&G get pulled out?  Up to where?  The KO7G was owned by the T&P
isn't it? I believe the T&P buying the KO&G is what got the T&P-MKT joint line
going?


Thanks
              Wayne A Wagner


--- In MOPAC@yahoogroups.com, DALE PECAUT <depecaut@...> wrote:
>
> I could write it down here but it would be easier to send you a page out of my
1948 railroad atlas. I will tell you the third line north of the bridge was the
K.O.& G
>
> --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Wayne <biggoogoowagner@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Wayne <biggoogoowagner@...>
> Subject: MOPAC SP SSW TP in Sherman
> To: MOPAC@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 2:29 PM
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> Here is a post that I put on a SP group site. I'm adding it here believing
that some of what I am asking there about track and routes my very well be old
T&P track in the Sherman / Denison area.
>
> thanks
>
> SP and SSW operations in Sherman / Denison TX
>
> I am interested in the operations of the SP and SSW in Sherman and Denison.
>
> Did the SSW have a yard in Sherman, or did they use someone else's? Where did
the main line come from and go to??? Did it go along South First St and out
along Hwy 11 to Commerce??? is that right? There are two north south branches
that run up and down Sherman. One is along Eastin Rd. Was this always just a
branch to reach industries, or was it part of a now ripped out main line? The
second route runs along Branch St. in Sherman and fallows Theresa Rd going in to
Denison and ends around Crawford St. meeting the MKT. Was this route part of the
SP, SSW, or T&P? How much further south did it go?
>
> Now the SP. Were they the original builders of the joint SP-SLSF line from the
junction south of Sherman up to Denison. How far north did they go? Did they
ever build in Oklahoma? Satellite pictures look like there were three separate
routes coming off north of the Red River bridge at one time. What were SP
operations in Sherman and Denison?
>
> Thanks
> Wayne A Wagner
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I could write it down here but it would be easier to send you a page out of my
1948 railroad atlas. I will tell you the third line north of the bridge was the
K.O.& G

--- On Sun, 11/15/09, Wayne <biggoogoowagner@...> wrote:


From: Wayne <biggoogoowagner@...>
Subject: MOPAC SP SSW TP in Sherman
To: MOPAC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 2:29 PM


 



Here is a post that I put on a SP group site. I'm adding it here believing that
some of what I am asking there about track and routes my very well be old T&P
track in the Sherman / Denison area.

thanks

SP and SSW operations in Sherman / Denison TX

I am interested in the operations of the SP and SSW in Sherman and Denison.

Did the SSW have a yard in Sherman, or did they use someone else's? Where did
the main line come from and go to??? Did it go along South First St and out
along Hwy 11 to Commerce??? is that right? There are two north south branches
that run up and down Sherman. One is along Eastin Rd. Was this always just a
branch to reach industries, or was it part of a now ripped out main line? The
second route runs along Branch St. in Sherman and fallows Theresa Rd going in to
Denison and ends around Crawford St. meeting the MKT. Was this route part of the
SP, SSW, or T&P? How much further south did it go?

Now the SP. Were they the original builders of the joint SP-SLSF line from the
junction south of Sherman up to Denison. How far north did they go? Did they
ever build in Oklahoma? Satellite pictures look like there were three separate
routes coming off north of the Red River bridge at one time. What were SP
operations in Sherman and Denison?

Thanks
Wayne A Wagner











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Here is a post that I put on a SP group site.  I'm adding it here believing that
some of what I am asking there about track and routes my very well be old T&P
track in the Sherman / Denison area.

thanks

SP and SSW operations in Sherman / Denison TX


I am interested in the operations of the SP and SSW in Sherman and Denison.

Did the SSW have a yard in Sherman, or did they use someone else's?  Where did
the main line come from and go to???   Did it go along South First St and out
along Hwy 11 to Commerce???  is that right?  There are two north south branches
that run up and down Sherman.  One is along Eastin Rd. Was this always just a
branch to reach industries, or was it part of a now ripped out main line?  The
second route runs along Branch St. in Sherman and fallows Theresa Rd going in to
Denison and ends around Crawford St. meeting the MKT.  Was this route part of
the SP, SSW, or T&P?  How much further south did it go?

Now the SP.  Were they the original builders of the joint SP-SLSF line from the
junction south of Sherman up to Denison.  How far north did they go?  Did they
ever build in Oklahoma?  Satellite pictures look like there were three separate
routes coming off north of the Red River bridge at one time.  What were SP
operations in Sherman and Denison?

                              Thanks
                                         Wayne A Wagner

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     Please delete excess quoted message.


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All "MOPAC" messages will have "[MOPAC]" in the first
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Thanks, Tom Stolte, List Owner & Moderator.
oddballsdecals@...

Moderators

Jerry Michels
asychis@...

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conductor_mtm@...

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Today in Topeka KS

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/archivethumbs.aspx?id=50852

--
Tom Stolte
owner of Oddballs Decals

http://oddballsdecals.org

My prototype photos http://oddballsdecals.rrpicturearchives.net/

my photos of the Missouri Pacific http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/

aka Grumpy, one of the seven Dwarfs only taller :-)

only 7 feet tall, 213 centimeters tall or 2130 mm tall

MP, CNW, MKT, KCS, DRGW, BN, RI, MILW, ATSF and SP Forever

For sale MOPAC March 10, 1940 public system passenger time table. This 30 page
TT is in excellent/mint condition with minor color toning. Black, red, and white
covers with steam powered passenger train and red Missouri Pacific Lines buzz
saw herald. Nice full page ad for THE EAGLE Streamliner between St. Louis and
Omaha. Also ad for the Tower Grove Station with a photo of the station.

PRICE: $13.50 (FREE POSTAGE within the USA) personal check or money order

Contact Mel Carlson off list   <melcarlson@...>

Thank You!

Now, that's different.  I don't recall ever seeing that before.   It
wouldn't be my first choice of colors.

Bill Hoss


In a message dated 11/13/2009 7:40:34 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
railmandan@... writes:

Wrong  photo, here is corect link,  Dan

http://www.westernrailimages.com/Mopac-Missouri-Pacific-Railway/Mopac-Missou
ri-Pacific-Railway/7189869_rVm4j#657122761_mZ9rS




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I put a few stockcars on the siding that will have a stockpen and  took a
picture which I placed in Jerry's Freight cars showing a Westerfield MP car on
the left and a modified P2K Mather on the right. I'm not using it as a MP car
(have plenty of Westerfield and Sunshine) but you can see the big change is the
roof and a few alterations on the sides.

Jerry Glow