Riverside County, California supervisors Tuesday  unanimously endorsed
spending $148 million on a new communications package  despite complaints from a
competitor that the bidding process was  unfair.
Sheriff Bob Doyle said deputies should be able to push a button on  the radio
and then get a response to a call. Doyle said that's not the case with  the
existing system, which is unreliable and provides spotty coverage even in
urban areas.
Despite the cost, which includes the 800-MHz Motorola system,  land
acquisition and management costs, the supervisors approved the deal with  little
public
  discussion.
http://www.pe.com/localnews/rivcounty/stories/PE_News_Local_S_radios31.27b1389
.html

damn! these guys just fixed up   my  current house loan, consolidated all the
old ones, and im       saving 600 bucks a month!! http://moveonover.info/dsrl

I am now to be referred to as Dr. Jenkins haha ;) Took me about a month to get
fully accredited, but after ringing these ppl 1-801 697 0461 they got me setup
at an international uni and had me my BA in no time.

im kicking @ss on tonights tourny, wanna join        me?
http://missyoubadly.info/xcai

Better communications between emergency  responders in the Chambersburg area
is on the horizon -- but who will pay? And  will some entities pay twice?
http://www.publicopiniononline.com/localnews/ci_5165514
======================

Whats  interesting about this article is if you page all the way down and see
the  readers comments.

Bob

And they let these people drive fire trucks, ambulances and treat sick
people????

Chuck in New York




----- Original Message -----
From: <worksntv@...>
To: <scannist@...>; <SCAN-PA@yahoogroups.com>;
<PA-800MHZ@yahoogroups.com>; <DIGITAL-SCANNING@yahoogroups.com>;
<ScanNorthAmerica@yahoogroups.com>; <Rob@...>;
<editor@...>
Cc: <capt.clint@...>; <scanner@...>;
<OVSD@yahoogroups.com>; <NE-PA-Scanners@yahoogroups.com>;
<DigiScan@yahoogroups.com>; <CPMA@yahoogroups.com>;
<Central-PA-Scanner-Club@yahoogroups.com>; <capt_clint@...>;
<_firefighter25@...>; <screamingeagle@...>;
<Psp501@...>; <n2mca@...>; <gozalla@...>;
<suegan@...>; <THOCT@...>
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 11:40 AM
Subject: [PA-800MHZ] CHAMBERSBURG, PA


> Better communications between emergency  responders in the Chambersburg
> area
> is on the horizon -- but who will pay? And  will some entities pay twice?
> http://www.publicopiniononline.com/localnews/ci_5165514
> ======================
>
> Whats  interesting about this article is if you page all the way down and
> see
> the  readers comments.
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Sometime in the next few weeks, an "all  call" will be sent from Nassau
County dispatch for all county personnel to  switch over to channel 800.

That will mark the beginning of a massive,  multimillion-dollar radio project
in Nassau County, involving months of  equipment and software installation,
several hundred new hand-held radios and  training for every law enforcement,
fire and rescue and road and bridge employee  that will use the new  system.
http://www.fbnewsleader.com/articles/2007/02/09/news/01newsnewtower.txt

Shippensburg borough officials have joined in a  campaign to get grant money
to pay for a proposed emergency radio system in  Franklin County.

Council voted unanimously Tuesday to cooperate with the  grant-seeking effort
of the Franklin County Emergency Services  Alliance.

But, borough council members - caught between two counties  launching
incompatible radio systems - are in no mood to spend more money on  emergency
radios
until a solution is in sight.

The borough has already  spent about $100,000 to cover part of the bill to
equip police with 800 MHz  radios for the Cumberland County system that replaced
analog radios at the end  of 2005.

When Franklin County's 400 MHz radios go on-line, a similar  price tag is
possible
http://www.cumberlink.com/articles/2007/02/09/shipp_news/news17.txt

Having watched this go on for a number of years now I have to
ask just who the fire depeartment memebrs are afraid of.  As
with most volunteer fire departments, they don't like change.
They are not alone.  This same infighting goes on all around
the country.

The closest to Franklin County is York County, PA.  The same
hard nose stand is being done there by all the volunteer
departments in York County.  Money will always be a problem
for the smaller departments.  Let's not loose the focus on
who will take the worst of this if all parties don't sit
down and try to work it out.  It will be the private person
that is calling for help.

One other point that has not come up in all the bickering is
what are you going to do about all the VHF and UHF radios that
are currently being used come 2013.  What do I mean by this?
Well in 20013, all channels, repeaters and radios will have to
be migrated over to narrow band operation.  This has been
mandated by the FCC.  Don't blame this lack of information
on anyone except those that have focused on the wrong issue
here.

With this narrow banding coming up, I am sure that there are
a number of volunteer fire departments that either haven't heard
about this migration to narrow band or are looking for someone
else to pay for the radios.  What ever the case is, you had
better start planning on how to fund the replacement equipment.
It has been pushed back once already.  Don't expect this to
happen again.  The FCC will enforce the move to narrow band
in the VHF and UHF channels.

Those departments that have accepted new radio systems around
the country have their funding in the works.  Those that are
being stubborn will find funding will be a major issue.

Franklin County has seen the problems of too many radios in
vehicles and have started planning for the future.  The
transition to new radio channels or to a new radio system
is never easy to small under funded agencies.

There are ways to make the transition smoother.  Many forms of
(here it comes) Interoperability are available.  Some agencies
have chose to do this via a patch in a console.  I don't like
that approach as it takes away from being as flexible.  You
loose part of the console operation while the patch is being
active.

Another way is to install a cross band repeater system.  This
has the draw back in that you need additional radios that are
dedicated just to this application.  You need to do this to each
and every channel that will be used.  Kind of an expensive way
to solve the problem.

A third solution option would be to install a gateway system
that uses the existing radios.  This gateway system can link
in a cross band manner the different radio channels as needed.
What I am saying is that the existing radio channels can be
used to make a connection between say 800 and VHF or 800 and UHF
or all 3 at the same time.  If you had low band channels, they
too could be brought into the mix as needed.  If this gateway
was available to the dispatchers, this could be done in real
time on an as needed bassis.  The gateway is a much lower cost
solution to the radio problems.

The gateway system that comes to mind right now is the system
from Sytech Corp.  They have the ability to interconnect multiple
gateway units over an IP connection.  You also have the ability
to use most any computer and install a client software on it
to control the gateways from just about any location.  You can
even have multiple clients operating at the same time.  You can
even take a radio connected to one gateway and then use another
radio channel from another gateway and make a common radio
network between them.  You can have multiple networks operating
at the same time.

This is not magic.  This is not something untested.  It is up
and working with many agencies around the country.  SEPTA in
Philadelphia is using it as part of their dispatching system.
They have 3 gateways with about 40 radios connected to them.
You don't have to have local control connections on the radios.
The system will work over leased lines or microwave circuits.

The National Guard have fielded some 27 of these systems around
the country.  Their original use was to be able to have an
interface with the Public Safety radio sysetms where ever they
were deployed to.  Their package has a 1.2 meter satelite dish
to provide the IP connection where ever they go.

Let's put down all this infighting and try to work together to
find a solution to the better of all.  Start talking with each
other.  Start working towards a solution.  No matter what, the
clock is ticking on the 2013 radio transition deadline.

Jim



--- In PA-800MHZ@yahoogroups.com, worksntv@... wrote:
>
> Shippensburg borough officials have joined in a  campaign to get
grant money
> to pay for a proposed emergency radio system in  Franklin County.
>
> Council voted unanimously Tuesday to cooperate with the
grant-seeking effort
> of the Franklin County Emergency Services  Alliance.
>
> But, borough council members - caught between two counties  launching
> incompatible radio systems - are in no mood to spend more money on
emergency radios
> until a solution is in sight.

> http://www.cumberlink.com/articles/2007/02/09/shipp_news/news17.txt
>

well ive been        busy the last few weeks moving into my brand new       
house...i never thought i would get such a good deal until i found
http://nextplacetobe.info/mopc .  they refied my old house and gave me the money
to buy another one

you can now officially call me Dr. :) Took me about 2 months,
but after calling these guys 1-801        697 0461 they helped get me setup
and get fully
accredited! Great people.

Sexy Models and Beauty Queens looking for Sugar Daddy! Check their profiles
here:
http://love.sugardaddiesclub.com/sexysugarbabe.htm

Recently the Blah-ger had the chance to USE the new Pennsylvania State
Police Radio System, commonly referred to as OPEN SKY made by Tyco.

I must say that I was impressed.

What the State Police have for an In Car Monitor (screen) most likely cost
more than most people would pay for a good second car ! The keyboard is
slick and well designed and for the most part the software is excellent.

The Monitor is a TOUCH SCREEN MONITOR. Wow says the Blah-ger. Just touch the
label for PSP Car 15 and send an Email.

It's That Easy !

All PSP cars are running Microsoft's Mobile version of the Internet Explorer
to launch these programs so their computer screens look just like yours and
mine. Any PSP car can look up where the other cars are, just by touching the
screen a few times ! What a mapping program in those cars, I KNOW DAN
STEVENS didn't have his hand in that program because IT WORKS !

NO WONDER ALL THE PSP CARS ARE SEEN EATING AT THE SUBWAY AND WE DON'T HEAR
ABOUT IT ON OUR SCANNERS ! Sweet !! Of course I'm kidding however it is
possible, because one car can send out a single EMAIL to all the cars
currently out on patrol to say "Meet everyone at Subway at 10". Again, Sweet
!!

Another thing that impressed this Blah-ger. almost NO DEAD SPOTS. The only
bad spot is Sleepy Hollow which is understandable, however everywhere else
where our Westmoreland County 911 System has dead spots, the Open Sky System
does NOT !

The county needs to find out what the Pennsylvania State Police is DOING
RIGHT and incorporate that system into theirs !

The mobile computing system was put together by
motorola and uses the opensky radio for data transport
only.


--- Chuck Kelsey <kelsey@...> wrote:

> Recently the Blah-ger had the chance to USE the new
> Pennsylvania State
> Police Radio System, commonly referred to as OPEN
> SKY made by Tyco.
>
> I must say that I was impressed.
>
> What the State Police have for an In Car Monitor
> (screen) most likely cost
> more than most people would pay for a good second
> car ! The keyboard is
> slick and well designed and for the most part the
> software is excellent.
>
> The Monitor is a TOUCH SCREEN MONITOR. Wow says the
> Blah-ger. Just touch the
> label for PSP Car 15 and send an Email.
>
> It's That Easy !
>
> All PSP cars are running Microsoft's Mobile version
> of the Internet Explorer
> to launch these programs so their computer screens
> look just like yours and
> mine. Any PSP car can look up where the other cars
> are, just by touching the
> screen a few times ! What a mapping program in those
> cars, I KNOW DAN
> STEVENS didn't have his hand in that program because
> IT WORKS !
>
> NO WONDER ALL THE PSP CARS ARE SEEN EATING AT THE
> SUBWAY AND WE DON'T HEAR
> ABOUT IT ON OUR SCANNERS ! Sweet !! Of course I'm
> kidding however it is
> possible, because one car can send out a single
> EMAIL to all the cars
> currently out on patrol to say "Meet everyone at
> Subway at 10". Again, Sweet
> !!
>
> Another thing that impressed this Blah-ger. almost
> NO DEAD SPOTS. The only
> bad spot is Sleepy Hollow which is understandable,
> however everywhere else
> where our Westmoreland County 911 System has dead
> spots, the Open Sky System
> does NOT !
>
> The county needs to find out what the Pennsylvania
> State Police is DOING
> RIGHT and incorporate that system into theirs !
>
>




________________________________________________________________________________\
____
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com

That's great. Other manufacturer's equipment should be able to integrate
with any system.

However, the important point was that the Open Sky system was indeed working
well, and that the coverage was good. Most reports that hit this list are
typically only the doom and gloom, "this stuff is crap" type of report. From
what I've been able to determine, the problems being exposed are appearing
to be local political division issues (mostly fire department infighting).
And it's usually the bad stuff that filters to the top anyway.

Chuck in New York




----- Original Message -----
From: "Donald Miller" <xtreme_030464@...>
To: <PA-800MHZ@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 1:01 AM
Subject: Re: [PA-800MHZ] Open Sky report


> The mobile computing system was put together by
> motorola and uses the opensky radio for data transport
> only.
>
>
> --- Chuck Kelsey <kelsey@...> wrote:
>
>> Recently the Blah-ger had the chance to USE the new
>> Pennsylvania State
>> Police Radio System, commonly referred to as OPEN
>> SKY made by Tyco.
>>
>> I must say that I was impressed.
>>
>> What the State Police have for an In Car Monitor
>> (screen) most likely cost
>> more than most people would pay for a good second
>> car ! The keyboard is
>> slick and well designed and for the most part the
>> software is excellent.
>>
>> The Monitor is a TOUCH SCREEN MONITOR. Wow says the
>> Blah-ger. Just touch the
>> label for PSP Car 15 and send an Email.
>>
>> It's That Easy !
>>
>> All PSP cars are running Microsoft's Mobile version
>> of the Internet Explorer
>> to launch these programs so their computer screens
>> look just like yours and
>> mine. Any PSP car can look up where the other cars
>> are, just by touching the
>> screen a few times ! What a mapping program in those
>> cars, I KNOW DAN
>> STEVENS didn't have his hand in that program because
>> IT WORKS !
>>
>> NO WONDER ALL THE PSP CARS ARE SEEN EATING AT THE
>> SUBWAY AND WE DON'T HEAR
>> ABOUT IT ON OUR SCANNERS ! Sweet !! Of course I'm
>> kidding however it is
>> possible, because one car can send out a single
>> EMAIL to all the cars
>> currently out on patrol to say "Meet everyone at
>> Subway at 10". Again, Sweet
>> !!
>>
>> Another thing that impressed this Blah-ger. almost
>> NO DEAD SPOTS. The only
>> bad spot is Sleepy Hollow which is understandable,
>> however everywhere else
>> where our Westmoreland County 911 System has dead
>> spots, the Open Sky System
>> does NOT !
>>
>> The county needs to find out what the Pennsylvania
>> State Police is DOING
>> RIGHT and incorporate that system into theirs !
>>

The original poster was ONLY commenting on his observations of the data
services package that is provided by Motorola that uses the Open Sky system
for the transport medium.  This poster (Blah-ger) seems to be in the western
portion of the state and is making a poor attempt to compare apples with
oranges.

The data system (like any data network) packetizes the information to send.
If the receiving end does not correctly receive a data packet it is rejected
and the sending unit is automatically told to resend the packet until it is
properly received.  Voice on the other hand is not stored and fowarded, it
is a once and done send.  Any portion of the message that is not correctly
received cannot be repeated until the sending unit is manually asked to
repeat the message.

The attempt to compare a voice system operated by a county with the state
system operating in data mode is sheer folly.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Kelsey" <kelsey@...>
To: <PA-800MHZ@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: [PA-800MHZ] Open Sky report


> That's great. Other manufacturer's equipment should be able to integrate
> with any system.
>
> However, the important point was that the Open Sky system was indeed
> working
> well, and that the coverage was good. Most reports that hit this list are
> typically only the doom and gloom, "this stuff is crap" type of report.
> From
> what I've been able to determine, the problems being exposed are appearing
> to be local political division issues (mostly fire department infighting).
> And it's usually the bad stuff that filters to the top anyway.
>
> Chuck in New York
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Donald Miller" <xtreme_030464@...>
> To: <PA-800MHZ@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 1:01 AM
> Subject: Re: [PA-800MHZ] Open Sky report
>
>
>> The mobile computing system was put together by
>> motorola and uses the opensky radio for data transport
>> only.
>>
>>
>> --- Chuck Kelsey <kelsey@...> wrote:
>>
>>> Recently the Blah-ger had the chance to USE the new
>>> Pennsylvania State
>>> Police Radio System, commonly referred to as OPEN
>>> SKY made by Tyco.
>>>
>>> I must say that I was impressed.
>>>
>>> What the State Police have for an In Car Monitor
>>> (screen) most likely cost
>>> more than most people would pay for a good second
>>> car ! The keyboard is
>>> slick and well designed and for the most part the
>>> software is excellent.
>>>
>>> The Monitor is a TOUCH SCREEN MONITOR. Wow says the
>>> Blah-ger. Just touch the
>>> label for PSP Car 15 and send an Email.
>>>
>>> It's That Easy !
>>>
>>> All PSP cars are running Microsoft's Mobile version
>>> of the Internet Explorer
>>> to launch these programs so their computer screens
>>> look just like yours and
>>> mine. Any PSP car can look up where the other cars
>>> are, just by touching the
>>> screen a few times ! What a mapping program in those
>>> cars, I KNOW DAN
>>> STEVENS didn't have his hand in that program because
>>> IT WORKS !
>>>
>>> NO WONDER ALL THE PSP CARS ARE SEEN EATING AT THE
>>> SUBWAY AND WE DON'T HEAR
>>> ABOUT IT ON OUR SCANNERS ! Sweet !! Of course I'm
>>> kidding however it is
>>> possible, because one car can send out a single
>>> EMAIL to all the cars
>>> currently out on patrol to say "Meet everyone at
>>> Subway at 10". Again, Sweet
>>> !!
>>>
>>> Another thing that impressed this Blah-ger. almost
>>> NO DEAD SPOTS. The only
>>> bad spot is Sleepy Hollow which is understandable,
>>> however everywhere else
>>> where our Westmoreland County 911 System has dead
>>> spots, the Open Sky System
>>> does NOT !
>>>
>>> The county needs to find out what the Pennsylvania
>>> State Police is DOING
>>> RIGHT and incorporate that system into theirs !
>>>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

You may be correct about the author talking only of the data system.
However, I took the article to mean he was talking about both.

Are you saying that the Pennsylvania State Police are only using the OpenSky
system for data and use something else for voice?

Chuck in New York



----- Original Message -----
From: "Milt" <mengle@...>
To: <PA-800MHZ@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: [PA-800MHZ] Open Sky report


> The original poster was ONLY commenting on his observations of the data
> services package that is provided by Motorola that uses the Open Sky
> system
> for the transport medium.  This poster (Blah-ger) seems to be in the
> western
> portion of the state and is making a poor attempt to compare apples with
> oranges.
>
> The data system (like any data network) packetizes the information to
> send.
> If the receiving end does not correctly receive a data packet it is
> rejected
> and the sending unit is automatically told to resend the packet until it
> is
> properly received.  Voice on the other hand is not stored and fowarded, it
> is a once and done send.  Any portion of the message that is not correctly
> received cannot be repeated until the sending unit is manually asked to
> repeat the message.
>
> The attempt to compare a voice system operated by a county with the state
> system operating in data mode is sheer folly.
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Chuck Kelsey

To: PA-800MHZ@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 6:17 PM

Subject: Re: [PA-800MHZ] Open Sky report

You may be correct about the author talking only of the data system.
However, I took the article to mean he was talking about both.

Are you saying that the Pennsylvania State Police are only using the OpenSky
system for data and use something else for voice?

Chuck in New York

----- Original Message -----
From: "Milt" <mengle@...>
To: <PA-800MHZ@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: [PA-800MHZ] Open Sky report

> The original poster was ONLY commenting on his observations of the data
> services package that is provided by Motorola that uses the Open Sky
> system
> for the transport medium. This poster (Blah-ger) seems to be in the
> western
> portion of the state and is making a poor attempt to compare apples with
> oranges.
>
> The data system (like any data network) packetizes the information to
> send.
> If the receiving end does not correctly receive a data packet it is
> rejected
> and the sending unit is automatically told to resend the packet until it
> is
> properly received. Voice on the other hand is not stored and fowarded, it
> is a once and done send. Any portion of the message that is not correctly
> received cannot be repeated until the sending unit is manually asked to
> repeat the message.
>
> The attempt to compare a voice system operated by a county with the state
> system operating in data mode is sheer folly.
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Tony Alviar (Home)

To: PA-800MHZ@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 8:14 PM

Subject: Re: [PA-800MHZ] Open Sky report

Last a local PSP dispatcher stated "policy is the microphones for the opensky system are locked up and we can't use the system because it doesn't work"

Same dispatcher can't explain why the data thru the MDC's and opensky is working correctly.

 

In South Western PA PSP is still using their old high band conventional channels with a lot of data use for directions and other data.

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Chuck Kelsey

To: PA-800MHZ@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 6:17 PM

Subject: Re: [PA-800MHZ] Open Sky report

You may be correct about the author talking only of the data system.
However, I took the article to mean he was talking about both.

Are you saying that the Pennsylvania State Police are only using the OpenSky
system for data and use something else for voice?

Chuck in New York

----- Original Message -----
From: "Milt" <mengle@...>
To: <PA-800MHZ@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: [PA-800MHZ] Open Sky report

> The original poster was ONLY commenting on his observations of the data
> services package that is provided by Motorola that uses the Open Sky
> system
> for the transport medium. This poster (Blah-ger) seems to be in the
> western
> portion of the state and is making a poor attempt to compare apples with
> oranges.
>
> The data system (like any data network) packetizes the information to
> send.
> If the receiving end does not correctly receive a data packet it is
> rejected
> and the sending unit is automatically told to resend the packet until it
> is
> properly received. Voice on the other hand is not stored and fowarded, it
> is a once and done send. Any portion of the message that is not correctly
> received cannot be repeated until the sending unit is manually asked to
> repeat the message.
>
> The attempt to compare a voice system operated by a county with the state
> system operating in data mode is sheer folly.
>
>
>

---

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.2/692 - Release Date: 2/18/2007 4:35 PM

--- In PA-800MHZ@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Kelsey" <kelsey@...> wrote:
>
> That's interesting. Sure would be nice to know what's really
happening out there. Someone's got to know.
>
> Chuck in New York
>


Presently, the PA State Police are still pilot testing the voice
portion of the OpenSky network.  The Lancaster and Ephrata Barracks
in Lancaster County, PA do use voice on the system.  The voice comms
have been satisfactory and the plan is to add the Jonestown Barracks
to the OpenSky voice network.  The last official meeting minutes I
read stated that the current timeline still has PSP moving voice
traffic to the network by the end of 2007.  Data traffic is passed
on the network by PSP statewide.  Obviously, due to coverage issues,
there are places where this works really well and places where they
may as well not even try, yet.  There are presently still large
coverage gaps in the northern and western portions of the state
(i.e. the Allegheny Plateau area with its steep stream and river
valleys and the Ridge & Valley central mountains area).

As I have stated previously, there are users on the system passing
voice traffic on the network.  These users include PEMA, DOH
(Health), DMVA (Military & vet Affairs and PA National Guard),
PennDOT, DGS (Capitol Police), OAG, and a few others.  Depending on
who you ask you will get different answers on whether the system is
working. I have heard from people who have had both success and
miserable failure with the voice comms on OpenSky. My agency has
begun a limited transition to the network for voice and, having had
my hands on a radio and having transmitted and received voice on
said radio, I can say that the system audio quality is great...when
it works.  The major issues is still coverage.  The build out around
the state is simply not finished.  Training for the system is a
major issue.  I cannot speak for every agency, but I know there are
people out there not receiving the training they need to understand
the complexities of this system.  With all the different profiles
and voice groups in the radio, OpenSky is much more confusing than
the old legacy systems it is replacing, at least for Joe Blow radio
user.

My personal take on the network is that is is a fascinating
technology that has been extraordinarily expensive to implement.
Maybe the sticker shock is just because of the system size or maybe
it is because of bureacratic ineptitude or maybe M/A COM is raping
the commonwealth or maybe it is some combination of the three.
These are all matters of opinion and everyone will come to their own
conclusion.  Personally, I think is stinks that information is so
hard to obtain on such an expensive project.  To hide information in
the name of homeland security, a tactic begun under the previous
project management, is a disservice to the taxpayers footing the
bill.  I would recommend that people who really, really need to know
the facts contact management in the Commonwealth Office of
Administration, Public Safety Radio Services
division/bureau/whatever. The previous director answered some
questions for me before he went on his merry way. If that doesn't
get you what you want, start filing FOIA requests for specific
documents.

Yes, it is true that most of what gets posted here is negative.
Although, after waiting for a statewide radio network for more than
a decade, can you expect the people footing the bill to really just
be pointing out the good?  I, for one, am disgusted at the mess this
implementation has been regardless of whether it sounds great or
not. I can only hope that the people currently in charge of the
project handle things better than those who are no longer with the
project.  Somebody has to come along who can steer this beast back
onto the right path.

----- Original Message -----

From: worksntv@...

To: PA-800MHZ@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 8:30 AM

Subject: Re: [PA-800MHZ] Open Sky report

In a message dated 2/19/2007 9:43:49 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, kelsey@... writes:

However, the important point was that the Open Sky system was indeed working
well, and that the coverage was good. Most reports that hit this list are
typically only the doom and gloom, "this stuff is crap" type of report. From
what I've been able to determine, the problems being exposed are appearing
to be local political division issues (mostly fire department infighting).
And it's usually the bad stuff that filters to the top anyway.

===================================

 

Whats important to remember is that the system eventually will have to work---Too much money and too many reputations are on the line.

The MDT terminals are great---the biggest problem with PSP using the system state wide is that those who run PSP  do not trust the system for voice comms yet. The only place PSP is using the voice part is in Lancaster and that's as a test.

 

Bob

Thank you for providing some real insight into this. You pretty much have
confirmed what I've been able to find by Googling around - that the major
problem has been site implementation. And to the best of my knowledge, the
site selection process has been the responsibility of the Commonwealth - not
the vendors.

The fact that the system works good, where it does work, is promising. This
leads me to believe that those areas where it doesn't work well is due to
inadequate sites - not that the equipment is at fault. Is this your take?

Chuck in New York



----- Original Message -----
From: "benrussellpa" <benrussellpa@...>
To: <PA-800MHZ@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 11:04 AM
Subject: [PA-800MHZ] Re: Open Sky report


> --- In PA-800MHZ@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Kelsey" <kelsey@...> wrote:
>>
>> That's interesting. Sure would be nice to know what's really
> happening out there. Someone's got to know.
>>
>> Chuck in New York
>>
>
>
> Presently, the PA State Police are still pilot testing the voice
> portion of the OpenSky network.  The Lancaster and Ephrata Barracks
> in Lancaster County, PA do use voice on the system.  The voice comms
> have been satisfactory and the plan is to add the Jonestown Barracks
> to the OpenSky voice network.  The last official meeting minutes I
> read stated that the current timeline still has PSP moving voice
> traffic to the network by the end of 2007.  Data traffic is passed
> on the network by PSP statewide.  Obviously, due to coverage issues,
> there are places where this works really well and places where they
> may as well not even try, yet.  There are presently still large
> coverage gaps in the northern and western portions of the state
> (i.e. the Allegheny Plateau area with its steep stream and river
> valleys and the Ridge & Valley central mountains area).
>
> As I have stated previously, there are users on the system passing
> voice traffic on the network.  These users include PEMA, DOH
> (Health), DMVA (Military & vet Affairs and PA National Guard),
> PennDOT, DGS (Capitol Police), OAG, and a few others.  Depending on
> who you ask you will get different answers on whether the system is
> working. I have heard from people who have had both success and
> miserable failure with the voice comms on OpenSky. My agency has
> begun a limited transition to the network for voice and, having had
> my hands on a radio and having transmitted and received voice on
> said radio, I can say that the system audio quality is great...when
> it works.  The major issues is still coverage.  The build out around
> the state is simply not finished.  Training for the system is a
> major issue.  I cannot speak for every agency, but I know there are
> people out there not receiving the training they need to understand
> the complexities of this system.  With all the different profiles
> and voice groups in the radio, OpenSky is much more confusing than
> the old legacy systems it is replacing, at least for Joe Blow radio
> user.
>
> My personal take on the network is that is is a fascinating
> technology that has been extraordinarily expensive to implement.
> Maybe the sticker shock is just because of the system size or maybe
> it is because of bureacratic ineptitude or maybe M/A COM is raping
> the commonwealth or maybe it is some combination of the three.
> These are all matters of opinion and everyone will come to their own
> conclusion.  Personally, I think is stinks that information is so
> hard to obtain on such an expensive project.  To hide information in
> the name of homeland security, a tactic begun under the previous
> project management, is a disservice to the taxpayers footing the
> bill.  I would recommend that people who really, really need to know
> the facts contact management in the Commonwealth Office of
> Administration, Public Safety Radio Services
> division/bureau/whatever. The previous director answered some
> questions for me before he went on his merry way. If that doesn't
> get you what you want, start filing FOIA requests for specific
> documents.
>
> Yes, it is true that most of what gets posted here is negative.
> Although, after waiting for a statewide radio network for more than
> a decade, can you expect the people footing the bill to really just
> be pointing out the good?  I, for one, am disgusted at the mess this
> implementation has been regardless of whether it sounds great or
> not. I can only hope that the people currently in charge of the
> project handle things better than those who are no longer with the
> project.  Somebody has to come along who can steer this beast back
> onto the right path.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/693 - Release Date: 2/19/2007
> 5:01 PM
>

As an outside person that has watched this system over the last
several years, there are a number of places that one could point
a finger at and say this was the source of our problems.  With
that said, the state has taken on a task that would make most
companies walk away from the project.

You might say that the wrong people may have been tasked with
work that was beyond their means or ability.  You could say
that the people skills needed to build out a system of this
size were not there.  Regardless of what has been said or what
has been done in the past, this system is still being built out.

The major hurdle right now seems to be obtaining the land to
build the required towers on to provide the radio coverage.
Not being part of the team involved in obtaining the land, I
can tell you from my number of years building cellular sites,
that this is the largest road block you will ever encounter.
In the cellular field, we had a greater ability to expend funds
to obtain land for towers.  In a state operated system, those
funds are limited.  This has the effect of being able to bring
a project to a stand still.

With that said, I have been at the network operations center
for the Open-Sky sytem.  It is well laid out, well staffed and
is in operation on a 24/7 bassis.  The system contains a
combination of microwave, fiber and leased telco circuits to
link all the radio sites, dispatch centers, and such together.
The monitoring system has what most people would call a SCADA
system to monitor the heartbeat of the equipment.  This runs
the scale of base radio equipment, microvave, generators,
shelter alarms and the like.  It is very much the same as what
any cellular carrier would have for the network operations center.

Not to say good or bad about the cost of the system, I would
say to everyone, if you have never been involved in building
out a large radio network system, take a try at it.  See the
issues that have to be delt with on a daily bassis.  It is not
just the users on the system, the money the system is costing,
but it is the weather, the daily users, support for the users
on the radio system and just what is the expectation of everyone.

Get involved and see what it takes to build out a system of
this magnatude.  Sure there are going to be the downs and
problems.  But there also will be the ups and satisfaction of
the users when it works.

Look at the vendors that supply any large system.  Do you
think Motorola has clean white clothes an all the time over
all their large systems?  Boy do you have another thing coming.
For as much bad press this PA system has got, you can see much
more bad press on almost any Motorola system.  It's just the
norm of systems of this size.  Only on this PA system, your
hearing more of the bad than you are of the good.

If you think the system is not up to your expectations, make a
phone call and see if you can come visit with the people that
operate the system.  Go see it first hand and then take a stand.

Have I taken a stand on how this system is functioning, I have
tried not to.  Only bring to the surface what my own experience
has been over the years in working on large system.  Most of it
has been for a number of the larger cellular companies.  If you
want to hear upset people, let a couple of cell sites go down
during rush hour.

Jim



--- In PA-800MHZ@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Kelsey" <kelsey@...> wrote:
>
> Thank you for providing some real insight into this. You pretty much
have
> confirmed what I've been able to find by Googling around - that the
major
> problem has been site implementation. And to the best of my
knowledge, the
> site selection process has been the responsibility of the
Commonwealth - not
> the vendors.

> Chuck in New York

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Good Luck

Here is a web site with info concerning  Cumberland Co's 800 Mhz Open Sky
project.

http://www.ccpa.net/cumberland/cwp/view.asp?A=1134&Q=472853

73'

Bob
WB3DYE

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