What about the 45 nm processors ("Wolfdale") now appearing? IIRC, one
example is the E8300...has anyone any experience with undervolting
these puppies? Since they are already very power-efficient for their
performance, I'm wondering what could really be done by serious
quiet-PC folks. However, just now I lack the funds to experiment....

TIA for any info!

David

On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 11:45 PM, John Paterson <duroby@...> wrote:
> There is another reason for reducing the voltage; but it is not usually a user
determined function.
>
> If you are trying to switch a transistor from "on" to "off" or vice versa, the
time taken is finite.  But the rate of change of voltage is constant across most
chips.  In other words they are using the same substance for the substrate, give
or take.  So the lower the voltage change, the faster the switch.  This is why
we have seen a steady reduction in the operating voltage of processors since the
8088.

There is another reason for reducing the voltage; but it is not usually a user
determined function.

If you are trying to switch a transistor from "on" to "off" or vice versa, the
time taken is finite.  But the rate of change of voltage is constant across most
chips.  In other words they are using the same substance for the substrate, give
or take.  So the lower the voltage change, the faster the switch.  This is why
we have seen a steady reduction in the operating voltage of processors since the
8088.

There is, naturally, a problem with lowering the voltage: it is harder for the
circuit to discriminate between the two states.  Worst of all is the use of
Emitter Coupled Logic - it switches across about .5V!  That was used in the old
DEC Alpha RISC processors.  Those technologies were fast, but expensive.  Intel
et al use low voltage TTL... it is cheaper, and as we can see, it does work.

Note that none of this has anything much to do with heat or power per se.  These
are almost side benefits.  They are exploited more for these ends in, for
instance, the Intel Mobile series of processors, and to a lesser extent the AMD
equivalents.

Via C3 series use an additional, different technique to cut power: all the
instructions are run in microcode, like the old 8088-80386.  This reduces the
transistor count inside the processor considerably, but also reduces the
performance for any given clock speed.  The C3 is typically about 1/3rd the
performance of a Intel pentium series processor at the same clock.  But then
they use much less than 1/3 the power and produce less than 1/3 the heat.  The
old Transmeta Crusoe processors were different again... shame that processor has
died really.


As Chris points out, underclocking at the user level tends to walk straight into
the discrimination issue - we are not the manufacturers and so cannot re-work
the dies to correct any problems therein.  Furthermore the results achieved by
one user are only a general guide to the results that anyone else might manage
due to variations in the production process, and indeed the power supplies (both
the main system PS and the low voltage, motherboard, DC-DC processor supply).

Overvoltage is a more complex issue... on one hand the switch time between
states is greater, but we still see that this generates a successful outcome;
probably due to a cleaner switch.  It the voltage is too high though the
transistors that comprise the circuits con no longer cope... and a failure
usually follows.  Of course the power required to run the processor and heat
emitted from it are rising too, hence the need for a low voltage power source
that has good excess power capability, and a wonderful heat sink on the
processor.  All this costs money at some stage.  The same statement about the
reliability of the exact voltage of the power, and the variability of the
processor in your motherboard apply as much at high voltages as low voltages.

I trust that you understand that all this is not exactly a simple process of
adding or subtracting voltage as you change the processor clock in order to
achieve your particular goal?  Yes, you can vary these voltages - within limits
- as the chip manufacturers have to design with a tolerance to allow for
variations experienced in service when using a range of motherboards.  Also that
the ever-faster processors of the future will use ever lower core voltages.  So
will the memory, and North Bridge.

John.


   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Chris Thomson
   To: Silent-PC@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 1:00 PM
   Subject: RE: [Silent-PC] Re: Undervolting Intel Core2 Duo?


   Well, that's backwards.

   CPU (and any other semiconductor) power consumption is linear with the
   formula V*V*F, that is, the square of the voltage times the frequency. So
   undervolting is the best way to reduce power consumption. Of course at some
point the CPU becomes unreliable when the voltage is too low. Core2 CPUs are
designed to be reliable at a reduced clock speed (typically 6x) at 1.05V.
   Many are reliable at full clock speed at this voltage, and some are reliable
   at even lower voltage, but few can be run below 0.9V.

   To answer the original question: the reason to undervolt is to reduce power
   consumption, which in turn reduces cooling requirements, which in turn
   reduces the needed fan speed, which reduces the sound level of the system.

   -----Original Message-----
   From: Silent-PC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Silent-PC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
   Of terramir
   Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 6:59 PM
   To: Silent-PC@yahoogroups.com
   Subject: [Silent-PC] Re: Undervolting Intel Core2 Duo?

   Q:> I only have one question - why undervolting?
   >

   A: Because heat generated is a function of clockspeed and voltage, the
   less voltage you feed a processor the less heat it will generate, so if
   a cpu is stock speed of let's say 1800 Mhz like the core2duo 4300 and
   you run it at let's say 1200 mhz you have a slower computer that gives
   off less heat, however the heat reduction is not linear with clock
   speed, the reduction of watts drawn(heat produced) at the same voltage
   is actually not 66% like that 66% of clock speed but more like a 80 to
   90% of the original heat produced, however on voltage the reductions
   are almost linear, so at the same clockspeed if you can reduce the
   voltage by 25% you'll get like a 20 to 25% reduction in heat generated
   there are some fudge factors there.
   and with less heat generated you need less cooling ergo you generate
   less noise.
   terramir
   BTW the guy with that board at stock speed I doubt you could go below
   1V and the absolut minimum will probably be around 0.85V @ 33% under
   stock speed. lower than that I can't tell you because I can't
   manipulate my board that much.
   However I have run a C2D 4300 @ 2700 Mhz (50% overclock) with about
   1.175V- 1.212V so they are3 good undervolters on prinicipal, but
   becareful if you undervolt you want to make sure that you have disabled
   the power management options or fine tuned them because that's how my
   c2d crapped out a few times when at idle the power mangement options
   could reduce your voltage even further hence putting you under a
   working limit so use a utility where you can specify the voltages
   during power management. (remember if the bios overrides the voltage
   you'll not have true vaules neccesarily in the utilities so go higher
   first and see if it's stable by locking the power mangemnt options and
   toasting it with a burn-in utility.
   terramir

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Why backwards I said frquency does not reduce heat as much and
voltage decreases I forgot the square, but in the real world I have
not seen a square reduction of heat emmitted during a voltage
reduction, this might be because at the same clockspeed while the
current to the processor is reduced during reducting the voltage it
is at times not linear. and heat is actually a function of watts
supplied - whatever is actually used to perform work. watt= voltage
times current and ohms law seems to run into a snag with
micropocessor setup's I dunno why.
terramir

--- In Silent-PC@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Thomson" <cmthomson@...>
wrote:
>
> Well, that's backwards.
>
>
>
> CPU (and any other semiconductor) power consumption is linear with
the
> formula V*V*F, that is, the square of the voltage times the
frequency. So
> undervolting is the best way to reduce power consumption. Of course
at some
> point the CPU becomes unreliable when the voltage is too low. Core2
CPUs are
> designed to be reliable at a reduced clock speed (typically 6x) at
1.05V.
> Many are reliable at full clock speed at this voltage, and some are
reliable
> at even lower voltage, but few can be run below 0.9V.
>
>
>
> To answer the original question: the reason to undervolt is to
reduce power
> consumption, which in turn reduces cooling requirements, which in
turn
> reduces the needed fan speed, which reduces the sound level of the
system.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Silent-PC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Silent-PC@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf
> Of terramir
> Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 6:59 PM
> To: Silent-PC@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Silent-PC] Re: Undervolting Intel Core2 Duo?
>
>
>
> Q:> I only have one question - why undervolting?
> >
>
> A: Because heat generated is a function of clockspeed and voltage,
the
> less voltage you feed a processor the less heat it will generate,
so if
> a cpu is stock speed of let's say 1800 Mhz like the core2duo 4300
and
> you run it at let's say 1200 mhz you have a slower computer that
gives
> off less heat, however the heat reduction is not linear with clock
> speed, the reduction of watts drawn(heat produced) at the same
voltage
> is actually not 66% like that 66% of clock speed but more like a 80
to
> 90% of the original heat produced, however on voltage the
reductions
> are almost linear, so at the same clockspeed if you can reduce the
> voltage by 25% you'll get like a 20 to 25% reduction in heat
generated
> there are some fudge factors there.
> and with less heat generated you need less cooling ergo you
generate
> less noise.
> terramir
> BTW the guy with that board at stock speed I doubt you could go
below
> 1V and the absolut minimum will probably be around 0.85V @ 33%
under
> stock speed. lower than that I can't tell you because I can't
> manipulate my board that much.
> However I have run a C2D 4300 @ 2700 Mhz (50% overclock) with about
> 1.175V- 1.212V so they are3 good undervolters on prinicipal, but
> becareful if you undervolt you want to make sure that you have
disabled
> the power management options or fine tuned them because that's how
my
> c2d crapped out a few times when at idle the power mangement
options
> could reduce your voltage even further hence putting you under a
> working limit so use a utility where you can specify the voltages
> during power management. (remember if the bios overrides the
voltage
> you'll not have true vaules neccesarily in the utilities so go
higher
> first and see if it's stable by locking the power mangemnt options
and
> toasting it with a burn-in utility.
> terramir
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Well, that's backwards.



CPU (and any other semiconductor) power consumption is linear with the
formula V*V*F, that is, the square of the voltage times the frequency. So
undervolting is the best way to reduce power consumption. Of course at some
point the CPU becomes unreliable when the voltage is too low. Core2 CPUs are
designed to be reliable at a reduced clock speed (typically 6x) at 1.05V.
Many are reliable at full clock speed at this voltage, and some are reliable
at even lower voltage, but few can be run below 0.9V.



To answer the original question: the reason to undervolt is to reduce power
consumption, which in turn reduces cooling requirements, which in turn
reduces the needed fan speed, which reduces the sound level of the system.





-----Original Message-----
From: Silent-PC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Silent-PC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of terramir
Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 6:59 PM
To: Silent-PC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Silent-PC] Re: Undervolting Intel Core2 Duo?



Q:> I only have one question - why undervolting?
>

A: Because heat generated is a function of clockspeed and voltage, the
less voltage you feed a processor the less heat it will generate, so if
a cpu is stock speed of let's say 1800 Mhz like the core2duo 4300 and
you run it at let's say 1200 mhz you have a slower computer that gives
off less heat, however the heat reduction is not linear with clock
speed, the reduction of watts drawn(heat produced) at the same voltage
is actually not 66% like that 66% of clock speed but more like a 80 to
90% of the original heat produced, however on voltage the reductions
are almost linear, so at the same clockspeed if you can reduce the
voltage by 25% you'll get like a 20 to 25% reduction in heat generated
there are some fudge factors there.
and with less heat generated you need less cooling ergo you generate
less noise.
terramir
BTW the guy with that board at stock speed I doubt you could go below
1V and the absolut minimum will probably be around 0.85V @ 33% under
stock speed. lower than that I can't tell you because I can't
manipulate my board that much.
However I have run a C2D 4300 @ 2700 Mhz (50% overclock) with about
1.175V- 1.212V so they are3 good undervolters on prinicipal, but
becareful if you undervolt you want to make sure that you have disabled
the power management options or fine tuned them because that's how my
c2d crapped out a few times when at idle the power mangement options
could reduce your voltage even further hence putting you under a
working limit so use a utility where you can specify the voltages
during power management. (remember if the bios overrides the voltage
you'll not have true vaules neccesarily in the utilities so go higher
first and see if it's stable by locking the power mangemnt options and
toasting it with a burn-in utility.
terramir





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Q:> I only have one question - why undervolting?
>

A: Because heat generated is a function of clockspeed and voltage, the
less voltage you feed a processor the less heat it will generate, so if
a cpu is stock speed of let's say 1800 Mhz like the core2duo 4300 and
you run it at let's say 1200 mhz you have a slower computer that gives
off less heat, however the heat reduction is not linear with clock
speed, the reduction of watts drawn(heat produced) at the same voltage
is actually not 66% like that 66% of clock speed but more like a 80 to
90% of the original heat produced, however on voltage the reductions
are almost linear, so at the same clockspeed if you can reduce the
voltage by 25% you'll get like a 20 to 25% reduction in heat generated
there are some fudge factors there.
and with less heat generated you need less cooling ergo you generate
less noise.
terramir
BTW the guy with that board at stock speed I doubt you could go below
1V and the absolut minimum will probably be around 0.85V @ 33% under
stock speed. lower than that I can't tell you because I can't
manipulate my board that much.
However I have run a C2D 4300 @ 2700 Mhz (50% overclock) with about
1.175V- 1.212V so they are3 good undervolters on prinicipal, but
becareful if you undervolt you want to make sure that you have disabled
the power management options or fine tuned them because that's how my
c2d crapped out a few times when at idle the power mangement options
could reduce your voltage even further hence putting you under a
working limit so use a utility where you can specify the voltages
during power management. (remember if the bios overrides the voltage
you'll not have true vaules neccesarily in the utilities so go higher
first and see if it's stable by locking the power mangemnt options and
toasting it with a burn-in utility.
terramir

>
> On Mar 12, 2008, at 9:35 PM, Chris Thomson wrote:
> All Core2 Duo CPUs will run reliably at 1.05V at 6x clock. This is
> the EIST
> voltage/clock setting. Most chips can improve on this. Most ASUS,
> Abit and
> Gigabyte motherboards let you control the clock and voltage manually.
> Depending on the CPU model, you can expect 25-50W.
>

I settled on GIBABYTE EP35-DS4 (rev 2.1)
1) CPU voltage control down to 0.75V (which is what I found on the web
and reason I chose this one)
2) The BIOS controls CPU and one case fan speed
3) Chipsets are cooled passively with copper heatsinks and heatpipes.
4) It claims to have efficient voltage converter for CPU

Right now, I have Core2 Duo E6850 running at 2.67GHz @ 1.075V.
I have not had enough time to find out the lowest CPU voltage yet but
it's working beautifully well.
I'm hoping that it goes below 1.0V, then it can be passively cooled
for sure.

BTW, while I was at a MicroCenter, I bought a SilverStone's  Suscool
121.

http://www.silverstonetek.com/products/p_contents.php?pno=suscool121&area=usa

I've had a few fans but this fan runs beautifully quiet and not so bad
price.

If I get around, I'll take some pictures.
I used rubber band suspension mount  of Seagate 7200.10, silicon
gasket for the CPU power supply.
At the moment, it's not "silent" but it's quieter than my MacBook by a
mile.

--
Naoyuki "Tai" Tai, ntai a t smartfruit d o t com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What I did was use the least expensive 45 nm Core 2 Duo I could get my
hands on. Using these and under voltaging I'm almost tempted to
replace the heat sink to a purely passive unit.

~m

All Core2 Duo CPUs will run reliably at 1.05V at 6x clock. This is the EIST
voltage/clock setting. Most chips can improve on this. Most ASUS, Abit and
Gigabyte motherboards let you control the clock and voltage manually.
Depending on the CPU model, you can expect 25-50W.



-----Original Message-----
From: Silent-PC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Silent-PC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Naoyuki Tai
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 11:47 AM
To: Silent-PC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Silent-PC] Undervolting Intel Core2 Duo?



Hi group,

I'm planning to build a new system, and this time, I'm thinking to use
Core2 Duo.
(Please don't start the CPU debate. I have a specific reason to use
Core2 Duo.)

Now, I have two options. One is to use Socket M/Socket P CPU.
This is expensive, and the motherboard choice is limited.

The other is to use desktop Core2 Duo and undervolting it.
This is economical. I can build the system with half the price of using
mobile CPU, and I probably have a wider selection of motherboard.
But, I have no information about it.

How much can I undervolt the Core2 Duo and which motherboard allows me
to undervolt it?
How much idle/full power consumption can I expect if I can undervold
Core2 Duo?

Do you have any experience with it?

--
Naoyuki "Tai" Tai, ntai a t smartfruit d o t com





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robin :-) a écrit :
> I only have one question - why undervolting?

Undervolting -> less consumption -> less heat -> less fan (in speed or number)
-> less noise -> more silence

I'm interrested in answers too...

Gwenn
--
     ASCII ribbon campaign      ( )
     - against HTML email &      X
proprietary format attachments / \

I only have one question - why undervolting?

Hi group,

I'm planning to build a new system, and this time, I'm thinking to use
Core2 Duo.
(Please don't start the CPU debate. I have a specific reason to use
Core2 Duo.)

Now, I have two options. One is to use Socket M/Socket P CPU.
This is expensive, and the motherboard choice is limited.

The other is to use desktop Core2 Duo and undervolting it.
This is economical. I can build the system with half the price of using
mobile CPU, and I probably have a wider selection of motherboard.
But, I have no information about it.

How much can I undervolt the Core2 Duo and which motherboard allows me
to undervolt it?
How much idle/full power consumption can I expect if I can undervold
Core2 Duo?

Do you have any experience with it?

--
Naoyuki "Tai" Tai, ntai a t smartfruit d o t com

John,

I don't know; maybe not. It looks like a promotional msg...

The original msg from Jonathan Westbay came via a grouply.com email address:
wurlybird9@...

m.

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Paterson" <duroby@...>
To: <Silent-PC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2008 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Silent-PC] Better way to access Yahoo Groups


> Mike Chin.
>
> Is this an authorised send through this group?
>
> I understood it to be exclusively for peer to peer help on creating and
> using Silent PCs?  I know it is hard to police this concept.
>
> John.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Jonathan Westbay
>  To: Silent-PC@yahoogroups.com
>  Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 1:06 AM
>  Subject: [Silent-PC] Better way to access Yahoo Groups
>
>
>  Hi everyone,
>
>  Since we all use Yahoo Groups to receive messages from this group, I
> thought I
>  would let you know about a free service I found called Grouply. It is the
> best
>  way I've discovered to access messages from all my Yahoo Groups. You can
> use
>  this link to sign up: http://www.grouply.com/register.php?r=153135 .
>
>  I am a member of so many groups that I found it very difficult to keep up
> with
>  all of them. Grouply makes it easy. You can search and browse across all
> your
>  groups at once and even view a cross-group event calendar. You can have
> one
>  Smart Digest email (which I love) sent to you at the end of each day that
>  summarizes what's going on across all your groups, highlighting what's
>  interesting to you and hiding what's not.
>
>  I've found Grouply to be a huge time-saver for me and I thought it would
> also be
>  helpful for others. Enjoy!
>
>  Jonathan
>
>  .
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Mike Chin.

Is this an authorised send through this group?

I understood it to be exclusively for peer to peer help on creating and using
Silent PCs?  I know it is hard to police this concept.

John.

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Jonathan Westbay
   To: Silent-PC@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 1:06 AM
   Subject: [Silent-PC] Better way to access Yahoo Groups


   Hi everyone,

   Since we all use Yahoo Groups to receive messages from this group, I thought I
   would let you know about a free service I found called Grouply. It is the best
   way I've discovered to access messages from all my Yahoo Groups. You can use
   this link to sign up: http://www.grouply.com/register.php?r=153135 .

   I am a member of so many groups that I found it very difficult to keep up with
   all of them. Grouply makes it easy. You can search and browse across all your
   groups at once and even view a cross-group event calendar. You can have one
   Smart Digest email (which I love) sent to you at the end of each day that
   summarizes what's going on across all your groups, highlighting what's
   interesting to you and hiding what's not.

   I've found Grouply to be a huge time-saver for me and I thought it would also
be
   helpful for others. Enjoy!

   Jonathan

   .


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You want me to supply my Yahoo! ID and password -- I think not. What's
wrong with just having the group messages forwarded to my Yahoo email?

--- In Silent-PC@yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Westbay <wurlybird9@...> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> Since we all use Yahoo Groups to receive messages from this group, I
thought I
> would let you know about a free service I found called Grouply. It
is the best
> way I've discovered to access messages from all my Yahoo Groups. You
can use
> this link to sign up:  http://www.grouply.com/register.php?r=153135 .
>
> I am a member of so many groups that I found it very difficult to
keep up with
> all of them. Grouply makes it easy. You can search and browse across
all your
> groups at once and even view a cross-group event calendar. You can
have one
> Smart Digest email (which I love) sent to you at the end of each day
that
> summarizes what's going on across all your groups, highlighting what's
> interesting to you and hiding what's not.
>
> I've found Grouply to be a huge time-saver for me and I thought it
would also be
> helpful for others. Enjoy!
>
> Jonathan
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hi everyone,

Since we all use Yahoo Groups to receive messages from this group, I thought I
would let you know about a free service I found called Grouply. It is the best
way I've discovered to access messages from all my Yahoo Groups. You can use
this link to sign up:  http://www.grouply.com/register.php?r=153135 .

I am a member of so many groups that I found it very difficult to keep up with
all of them. Grouply makes it easy. You can search and browse across all your
groups at once and even view a cross-group event calendar. You can have one
Smart Digest email (which I love) sent to you at the end of each day that
summarizes what's going on across all your groups, highlighting what's
interesting to you and hiding what's not.

I've found Grouply to be a huge time-saver for me and I thought it would also be
helpful for others. Enjoy!

Jonathan


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Paterson" <duroby@...>


> ... or just mount cooling rails like the ones recommended by Mike Chin on
> the SilentPCR web site.  By the way, the drive is carried in a metal
> mount, on the Silicone pads.  Not sitting right on the foam.
>
> Mind you, I would not want to accidentally kick that computer when it is
> running.  But that says more about me than the solution.
>
> Mike, I am going to try making some L rails that attach to the drive, but
> curve up and over the drive.  They should still fit into a 3.5" drive bay
> if there is a bit of sideways slack, but they will take up more space
> above/below the drive.
>
> John.

A well-implemented elastic suspension won't have any problem with a bump.

I've never personally used any extra cooling for any suspended HDD. If you
keep the airflow path in the case unimpeded, the exhaust fan will draw
enough air across the HDDs in front to keep them cool. And if not, a tiny
bit of airflow (like a Nexus 80 or 92 fan at 5~7V) is plenty to drop the
drive temp by ~10C. The 2 suspended HDDs in my P150 case (for my main system
these days) typically run under 35C -- without any fan in front, only a
7~800 rpm quiet 120mm fan for case exhaust.

Mike Chin
Editor
www.silentpcreview.com
www.ecopcreview.com

... or just mount cooling rails like the ones recommended by Mike Chin on the
SilentPCR web site.  By the way, the drive is carried in a metal mount, on the
Silicone pads.  Not sitting right on the foam.

Mind you, I would not want to accidentally kick that computer when it is
running.  But that says more about me than the solution.

Mike, I am going to try making some L rails that attach to the drive, but curve
up and over the drive.  They should still fit into a 3.5" drive bay if there is
a bit of sideways slack, but they will take up more space above/below the drive.

John.

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: J
   To: Silent-PC@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 12:23 AM
   Subject: RE: [Silent-PC] Re: Hard drive vibration


   It is good you have the mounting brackets attached. Drives need heatsinks.

   But, the foamy does restrict air flow. Top cause of drive failure is heat.

   So, now, use some wire to hang the drive.

   And, if a fan is not mounted on the front, install a quiet fan, and run it
   at 5 or 7 volts for slow and quieter.

   J

   From: Silent-PC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Silent-PC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
   Of Larry LeVine
   Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 3:51 PM
   To: Silent-PC@yahoogroups.com
   Subject: [Silent-PC] Re: Hard drive vibration

   You want pictures, you got pictures:

   //http://llevine.com/computers.htm

   --- In Silent-PC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Silent-PC%40yahoogroups.com> ,
   Aprazeth <aprazeth@...> wrote:
   >
   > Sounds like a great way to do this in a real DIY-way (which I absolutely
   > love :) )
   >
   > Would you happen to have any photo's online, or would you be able to
   do so?
   > It might help or inspire some of us here :)
   >
   >
   >
   > On 1/17/08, Larry LeVine <clairemontguy@...> wrote:
   > >
   > > I had a problem with vibration being transmitted to the case when my
   > > drive was bolted into the cage. I got a piece of 1/2" thick styrofoam
   > > from some packing material and cut a piece to fit in the bottom of my
   > > case. Next I took an old keyboard palm rest that was made from some
   > > really soft silicone material. I cut a couple of strips and set them
   > > on the styrofoam. I placed the hard drive on the strips. End of noise
   > > problem. The only downside is the the drive is "floating" in the case
   > > so if I'm going to move the computer I would need to secure the drive.
   > >
   > >
   > >
   >
   >
   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
   >


   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It is good you have the mounting brackets attached. Drives need heatsinks.

But, the foamy does restrict air flow. Top cause of drive failure is heat.

So, now,  use some wire to hang the drive.

And, if a fan is not mounted on the front, install a quiet fan, and run it
at 5 or 7 volts for slow and quieter.

J

From: Silent-PC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Silent-PC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Larry LeVine
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 3:51 PM
To: Silent-PC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Silent-PC] Re: Hard drive vibration

You want pictures, you got pictures:

//http://llevine.com/computers.htm

--- In Silent-PC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Silent-PC%40yahoogroups.com> ,
Aprazeth <aprazeth@...> wrote:
>
> Sounds like a great way to do this in a real DIY-way (which I absolutely
> love :) )
>
> Would you happen to have any photo's online, or would you be able to
do so?
> It might help or inspire some of us here :)
>
>
>
> On 1/17/08, Larry LeVine <clairemontguy@...> wrote:
> >
> > I had a problem with vibration being transmitted to the case when my
> > drive was bolted into the cage. I got a piece of 1/2" thick styrofoam
> > from some packing material and cut a piece to fit in the bottom of my
> > case. Next I took an old keyboard palm rest that was made from some
> > really soft silicone material. I cut a couple of strips and set them
> > on the styrofoam. I placed the hard drive on the strips. End of noise
> > problem. The only downside is the the drive is "floating" in the case
> > so if I'm going to move the computer I would need to secure the drive.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You want pictures, you got pictures:

//http://llevine.com/computers.htm

--- In Silent-PC@yahoogroups.com, Aprazeth <aprazeth@...> wrote:
>
> Sounds like a great way to do this in a real DIY-way (which I absolutely
> love :) )
>
> Would you happen to have any photo's online, or would you be able to
do so?
> It might help or inspire some of us here :)
>
>
>
> On 1/17/08, Larry LeVine <clairemontguy@...> wrote:
> >
> > I had a problem with vibration being transmitted to the case when my
> > drive was bolted into the cage. I got a piece of 1/2" thick styrofoam
> > from some packing material and cut a piece to fit in the bottom of my
> > case. Next I took an old keyboard palm rest that was made from some
> > really soft silicone material. I cut a couple of strips and set them
> > on the styrofoam. I placed the hard drive on the strips. End of noise
> > problem. The only downside is the the drive is "floating" in the case
> > so if I'm going to move the computer I would need to secure the drive.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Philip -

I have the Antec P150 with the built-in elastic suspension and subjectively
they do a good job of eliminating the noise via chassis vibrations.  I have
a RAID 0 configuration (it's a gaming system) and the noise of the two
drives is still less than the noise of the CPU fan.

Ken


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Larry LeVine 17/01/2008 06:17:
> I had a problem with vibration being transmitted to the case when my
> drive was bolted into the cage. I got a piece of 1/2" thick styrofoam
> from some packing material and cut a piece to fit in the bottom of my
> case. Next I took an old keyboard palm rest that was made from some
> really soft silicone material. I cut a couple of strips and set them
> on the styrofoam. I placed the hard drive on the strips. End of noise
> problem. The only downside is the the drive is "floating" in the case
> so if I'm going to move the computer I would need to secure the drive.

IIRC, Styrofoam is a thermic insulators, not a phonic insulator, so if
the piece of styrofoam is too wide, you would be keeping the HD
temperature in, which is not a good idea!

--
Frederic Da Vitoria

Sounds like a great way to do this in a real DIY-way (which I absolutely
love :) )

Would you happen to have any photo's online, or would you be able to do so?
It might help or inspire some of us here :)



On 1/17/08, Larry LeVine <clairemontguy@...> wrote:
>
> I had a problem with vibration being transmitted to the case when my
> drive was bolted into the cage. I got a piece of 1/2" thick styrofoam
> from some packing material and cut a piece to fit in the bottom of my
> case. Next I took an old keyboard palm rest that was made from some
> really soft silicone material. I cut a couple of strips and set them
> on the styrofoam. I placed the hard drive on the strips. End of noise
> problem. The only downside is the the drive is "floating" in the case
> so if I'm going to move the computer I would need to secure the drive.
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you Mike... I will be trying to use strings + rails in a P180.

I think that a variation on those aluminium U rails can easily be adapted to
work in all of my cases, not just my P180s.

John.


   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Mike Chin
   To: Silent-PC@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 3:59 PM
   Subject: Re: [Silent-PC] Re: Building a "Silent" Audio PC


   One thing I forgot to add -- HDD vibration & noise reducing methods -
   ranked --
   http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8240

   > Not silly, John.
   >
   > I have very little patience for the bulk of extruded aluminum encasements
   > for HDDs. Generally, they don't reduce noise or vibration -- they are a
   > complete waste of time/money, imo. After examining more than a dozen, I've
   > stopped even looking at them any more.
   >
   > Adding heatsinks to HDDs has been done -- first experiments at SPCR were
   > published back in 2002 --
   > http://www.silentpcreview.com/article22-page1.html
   > The gist of the article is that the extruded or cast aluminum sides of the
   > drive are the best places to attach fins to, and fins, when exposed to
   > just
   > a bit of forced air, help cool the drive a lot more than no fins. The
   > bottom
   > of the drive is also not bad, as the aluminum casting extends down to that
   > area. But the top of the drive is the worst place to clamp any heatsinks
   > because the top is just a flimsy thin cover which does not conduct the
   > heat
   > of the drive like the more solid aluminum areas.
   >
   > The soft silicone rubber grommets in the P180 (and many other Antec cases)
   > are very good, but not as effective as elastic string suspension
   > (including
   > the ones used in the Antec Solo/P150). This difference does not show up
   > with
   > the new WD Green Power drives, which spin at 5400rpm and have much less
   > vibration than any 7200rpm drive.
   >
   > Finally, only a tiny bit of forced airflow (ie very slow fan) effects a
   > very
   > big drop in HDD temperature compared to convection cooling. As little as
   > 5cfm across the HDD will result in as much as a 10C drop, as long as the
   > fan
   > draws air from outside the case. This is because 7200rpm HDDs only draw
   > 7~8W
   > at idle and maybe 12~14W in seek/write -- compared to the much higher
   > power
   > of CPUs & GPUs. The WD green power drive only draws about 4W in idle; it
   > hardly needs a fan. Notebook drives idle typically at 1W or less, peaking
   > at 2-3W.
   >
   > m.
   .


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I had a problem with vibration being transmitted to the case when my
drive was bolted into the cage. I got a piece of 1/2" thick styrofoam
from some packing material and cut a piece to fit in the bottom of my
case. Next I took an old keyboard palm rest that was made from some
really soft silicone material. I cut a couple of strips and set them
on the styrofoam. I placed the hard drive on the strips. End of noise
problem. The only downside is the the drive is "floating" in the case
so if I'm going to move the computer I would need to secure the drive.

One thing I forgot to add -- HDD vibration & noise reducing methods -
ranked --
http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8240


> Not silly, John.
>
> I have very little patience for the bulk of extruded aluminum encasements
> for HDDs. Generally, they don't reduce noise or vibration -- they are a
> complete waste of time/money, imo. After examining more than a dozen, I've
> stopped even looking at them any more.
>
> Adding heatsinks to HDDs has been done -- first experiments at SPCR were
> published back in 2002 --
> http://www.silentpcreview.com/article22-page1.html
> The gist of the article is that the extruded or cast aluminum sides of the
> drive are the best places to attach fins to, and fins, when exposed to
> just
> a bit of forced air, help cool the drive a lot more than no fins. The
> bottom
> of the drive is also not bad, as the aluminum casting extends down to that
> area. But the top of the drive is the worst place to clamp any heatsinks
> because the top is just a flimsy thin cover which does not conduct the
> heat
> of the drive like the more solid aluminum areas.
>
> The soft silicone rubber grommets in the P180 (and many other Antec cases)
> are very good, but not as effective as elastic string suspension
> (including
> the ones used in the Antec Solo/P150). This difference does not show up
> with
> the new WD Green Power drives, which spin at 5400rpm and have much less
> vibration than any 7200rpm drive.
>
> Finally, only a tiny bit of forced airflow (ie very slow fan) effects a
> very
> big drop in HDD temperature compared to convection cooling. As little as
> 5cfm across the HDD will result in as much as a 10C drop, as long as the
> fan
> draws air from outside the case. This is because 7200rpm HDDs only draw
> 7~8W
> at idle and maybe 12~14W in seek/write -- compared to the much higher
> power
> of CPUs & GPUs. The WD green power drive only draws about 4W in idle; it
> hardly needs a fan.  Notebook drives idle typically at 1W or less, peaking
> at 2-3W.
>
> m.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Paterson" <duroby@...>
> To: <Silent-PC@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 8:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [Silent-PC] Re: Building a "Silent" Audio PC
>
>
>> Perhaps a silly question Mike, but pertinent to my current and future
>> needs and save me a fair bit of experimentation; and ignoring for a
>> moment
>> the noise abatement advantages of the "string" suspension:
>>
>>    how do the other drive carriers fair for cooling the drives, ie
>> transferring the drive heat into the rather slow moving air of a quiet
>> computer?
>>    has anyone tried adding some sort of heat sink to string suspension
>> drives?
>>
>> Also, how do the 3.5 inch carriers in the bottom of the Antec P180
>> compare
>> to both the string carriers and the coolers.  They are afterall in a
>> separate air path.  I suspect the Philip might find these answers useful
>> as well.
>>
>> Thank you.
>> John.
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>  From: Mike Chin
>>  To: Silent-PC@yahoogroups.com
>>  Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 7:10 AM
>>  Subject: Re: [Silent-PC] Re: Building a "Silent" Audio PC
>>
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>  From: "Naoyuki Tai" <ntai@...>
>>
>>  > Mike Chin wrote:
>>  > >
>>  > > Most people consider the elastic string suspension a bit
>> fanatical...
>>  >  until they try it themselves. And then, many become instant converts.
>> The
>>  > > reduction in low frequency hum (and sometimes mid-freq buzz) can be
>> very dramatic.
>>  >
>>  > This is why I mentioned SmartDrive.
>>  >
>>  > The suspension is a lot cheaper than SmartDrive, but, if you have
>> money
>>  > to burn for Q6600, SmartDrive is a great way to reduce the vibration
>> and
>>  > noise.
>>  >
>>  > I've done rubberband suspension, SmartDrive, Molex SilentDrive
>>  > (discontinued long ago), HDD Silencer by CCI, and "broken CD drive
>>  > suspension".
>>  > (If you remove the outer casing of CD drive and put a disk on the
>> tray,
>>  > it has a very good bumper.)
>>  > HDD Silencer:
>>  > http://akiba.ascii24.com/akiba/news/2003/01/25/641390-000.html
>>  >
>>  > From my personal experiences, Seagate, Samsung Spinpoint disks are
>>  > shaky and suspension is almost always needed.
>>  > (I should try WD's greenpower next.)
>>
>>  I have a couple of Smart Drive enclosures. They're very good at lowering
>>  direct airborne noise (from a HDD), but do very little to reduce
>> vibration,
>>  which is the far greater source of noise from current HDDs. The Scythe
>> HDD
>>  rubber box is almost as good as the Smart Drive and perhaps a bit better
>> at
>>  vibration reduction. Neither of these match a good homebrew elastic
>> string
>>  suspension for vibration reduction.
>>
>>  Mike Chin
>>  Editor
>>  www.silentpcreview.com
>>  www.ecopcreview.com
>>  .
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Not silly, John.

I have very little patience for the bulk of extruded aluminum encasements
for HDDs. Generally, they don't reduce noise or vibration -- they are a
complete waste of time/money, imo. After examining more than a dozen, I've
stopped even looking at them any more.

Adding heatsinks to HDDs has been done -- first experiments at SPCR were
published back in 2002 -- http://www.silentpcreview.com/article22-page1.html
The gist of the article is that the extruded or cast aluminum sides of the
drive are the best places to attach fins to, and fins, when exposed to just
a bit of forced air, help cool the drive a lot more than no fins. The bottom
of the drive is also not bad, as the aluminum casting extends down to that
area. But the top of the drive is the worst place to clamp any heatsinks
because the top is just a flimsy thin cover which does not conduct the heat
of the drive like the more solid aluminum areas.

The soft silicone rubber grommets in the P180 (and many other Antec cases)
are very good, but not as effective as elastic string suspension (including
the ones used in the Antec Solo/P150). This difference does not show up with
the new WD Green Power drives, which spin at 5400rpm and have much less
vibration than any 7200rpm drive.

Finally, only a tiny bit of forced airflow (ie very slow fan) effects a very
big drop in HDD temperature compared to convection cooling. As little as
5cfm across the HDD will result in as much as a 10C drop, as long as the fan
draws air from outside the case. This is because 7200rpm HDDs only draw 7~8W
at idle and maybe 12~14W in seek/write -- compared to the much higher power
of CPUs & GPUs. The WD green power drive only draws about 4W in idle; it
hardly needs a fan.  Notebook drives idle typically at 1W or less, peaking
at 2-3W.

m.

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Paterson" <duroby@...>
To: <Silent-PC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Silent-PC] Re: Building a "Silent" Audio PC


> Perhaps a silly question Mike, but pertinent to my current and future
> needs and save me a fair bit of experimentation; and ignoring for a moment
> the noise abatement advantages of the "string" suspension:
>
>    how do the other drive carriers fair for cooling the drives, ie
> transferring the drive heat into the rather slow moving air of a quiet
> computer?
>    has anyone tried adding some sort of heat sink to string suspension
> drives?
>
> Also, how do the 3.5 inch carriers in the bottom of the Antec P180 compare
> to both the string carriers and the coolers.  They are afterall in a
> separate air path.  I suspect the Philip might find these answers useful
> as well.
>
> Thank you.
> John.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Mike Chin
>  To: Silent-PC@yahoogroups.com
>  Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 7:10 AM
>  Subject: Re: [Silent-PC] Re: Building a "Silent" Audio PC
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Naoyuki Tai" <ntai@...>
>
>  > Mike Chin wrote:
>  > >
>  > > Most people consider the elastic string suspension a bit fanatical...
>  >  until they try it themselves. And then, many become instant converts.
> The
>  > > reduction in low frequency hum (and sometimes mid-freq buzz) can be
> very dramatic.
>  >
>  > This is why I mentioned SmartDrive.
>  >
>  > The suspension is a lot cheaper than SmartDrive, but, if you have money
>  > to burn for Q6600, SmartDrive is a great way to reduce the vibration
> and
>  > noise.
>  >
>  > I've done rubberband suspension, SmartDrive, Molex SilentDrive
>  > (discontinued long ago), HDD Silencer by CCI, and "broken CD drive
>  > suspension".
>  > (If you remove the outer casing of CD drive and put a disk on the tray,
>  > it has a very good bumper.)
>  > HDD Silencer:
>  > http://akiba.ascii24.com/akiba/news/2003/01/25/641390-000.html
>  >
>  > From my personal experiences, Seagate, Samsung Spinpoint disks are
>  > shaky and suspension is almost always needed.
>  > (I should try WD's greenpower next.)
>
>  I have a couple of Smart Drive enclosures. They're very good at lowering
>  direct airborne noise (from a HDD), but do very little to reduce
> vibration,
>  which is the far greater source of noise from current HDDs. The Scythe
> HDD
>  rubber box is almost as good as the Smart Drive and perhaps a bit better
> at
>  vibration reduction. Neither of these match a good homebrew elastic
> string
>  suspension for vibration reduction.
>
>  Mike Chin
>  Editor
>  www.silentpcreview.com
>  www.ecopcreview.com
>  .
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Perhaps a silly question Mike, but pertinent to my current and future needs and
save me a fair bit of experimentation; and ignoring for a moment the noise
abatement advantages of the "string" suspension:

     how do the other drive carriers fair for cooling the drives, ie transferring
the drive heat into the rather slow moving air of a quiet computer?
     has anyone tried adding some sort of heat sink to string suspension drives?

Also, how do the 3.5 inch carriers in the bottom of the Antec P180 compare to
both the string carriers and the coolers.  They are afterall in a separate air
path.  I suspect the Philip might find these answers useful as well.

Thank you.
John.

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Mike Chin
   To: Silent-PC@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 7:10 AM
   Subject: Re: [Silent-PC] Re: Building a "Silent" Audio PC


   ----- Original Message -----
   From: "Naoyuki Tai" <ntai@...>

   > Mike Chin wrote:
   > >
   > > Most people consider the elastic string suspension a bit fanatical...
   >  until they try it themselves. And then, many become instant converts. The
   > > reduction in low frequency hum (and sometimes mid-freq buzz) can be very
dramatic.
   >
   > This is why I mentioned SmartDrive.
   >
   > The suspension is a lot cheaper than SmartDrive, but, if you have money
   > to burn for Q6600, SmartDrive is a great way to reduce the vibration and
   > noise.
   >
   > I've done rubberband suspension, SmartDrive, Molex SilentDrive
   > (discontinued long ago), HDD Silencer by CCI, and "broken CD drive
   > suspension".
   > (If you remove the outer casing of CD drive and put a disk on the tray,
   > it has a very good bumper.)
   > HDD Silencer:
   > http://akiba.ascii24.com/akiba/news/2003/01/25/641390-000.html
   >
   > From my personal experiences, Seagate, Samsung Spinpoint disks are
   > shaky and suspension is almost always needed.
   > (I should try WD's greenpower next.)

   I have a couple of Smart Drive enclosures. They're very good at lowering
   direct airborne noise (from a HDD), but do very little to reduce vibration,
   which is the far greater source of noise from current HDDs. The Scythe HDD
   rubber box is almost as good as the Smart Drive and perhaps a bit better at
   vibration reduction. Neither of these match a good homebrew elastic string
   suspension for vibration reduction.

   Mike Chin
   Editor
   www.silentpcreview.com
   www.ecopcreview.com
   .


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Naoyuki Tai" <ntai@...>

> Mike Chin wrote:
> >
> > Most people consider the elastic string suspension a bit fanatical...
> . until
> > they try it themselves. And then, many become instant converts. The
> > reduction in low frequency hum (and sometimes mid-freq buzz) can be very
> > dramatic.
>
> This is why I mentioned SmartDrive.
>
> The suspension is a lot cheaper than SmartDrive, but, if you have money
> to burn for Q6600, SmartDrive is a great way to reduce the vibration and
> noise.
>
> I've done rubberband suspension, SmartDrive, Molex SilentDrive
> (discontinued long ago), HDD Silencer by CCI, and "broken CD drive
> suspension".
> (If you remove the outer casing of CD drive and put a disk on the tray,
> it has a very good bumper.)
> HDD Silencer:
> http://akiba.ascii24.com/akiba/news/2003/01/25/641390-000.html
>
> From my personal experiences, Seagate, Samsung Spinpoint disks are
> shaky and suspension is almost always needed.
> (I should try WD's greenpower next.)

I have a couple of Smart Drive enclosures. They're very good at lowering
direct airborne noise (from a HDD), but do very little to reduce vibration,
which is the far greater source of noise from current HDDs. The Scythe HDD
rubber box is almost as good as the Smart Drive and perhaps a bit better at
vibration reduction. Neither of these match a good homebrew elastic string
suspension for vibration reduction.

Mike Chin
Editor
www.silentpcreview.com
www.ecopcreview.com

Mike Chin wrote:
  > ----- Original Message -----
  > From: "Philip Friel" <phil.friel@...>
  >
  > > Dunno about suspending the drive in that elastic hanger thingie,
though.
  > > I was thinking more of one of those cooled, sound-dampening five inch
  > > hard disk enclosures. Still, I'll note the "elastic hanger" down for
  > > future reference.
  > >
  > > Phil
  >
  > Most people consider the elastic string suspension a bit fanatical...
. until
  > they try it themselves. And then, many become instant converts. The
  > reduction in low frequency hum (and sometimes mid-freq buzz) can be very
  > dramatic.

This is why I mentioned SmartDrive.

The suspension is a lot cheaper than SmartDrive, but, if you have money
to burn for Q6600, SmartDrive is a great way to reduce the vibration and
noise.

I've done rubberband suspension, SmartDrive, Molex SilentDrive
(discontinued long ago), HDD Silencer by CCI, and "broken CD drive
suspension".
(If you remove the outer casing of CD drive and put a disk on the tray,
it has a very good bumper.)
HDD Silencer: http://akiba.ascii24.com/akiba/news/2003/01/25/641390-000.html

  From my personal experiences, Seagate, Samsung Spinpoint disks are
shaky and suspension is almost always needed.
(I should try WD's greenpower next.)

P.S.

I just noticed that there are a few more HD cases in Japan.
http://www.ko-soku.co.jp/sales/silent_new.htm

Unfortunately, in States, there aren't that many choices.
Has anyone tried?
http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/std/sku=driveaway_titanium.html

--
Naoyuki "Tai" Tai, ntai a t smartfruit d o t com

Hi David -

Earlier you made the assertion that a quad-core cpu would be overkill for
music production.

To my knowledge, many music production packages (Cubase, for example) take
do advantage of multi-core processing.  Also, I was under the impression
that the use of VST plugins can be rather CPU intensive.  Did you consider
these factors?

Ken


On 1/15/08, David Neeley <dbneeley@...> wrote:
>
>   Phil,
>
> I keep seeing you reply about things you're "keen on" that fly in the
> face of some of your other statements/requirements.
>
> USB connection has considerable overhead, compared to a direct SATA
> connection, which is the lowest-overhead and highest performance disk
> connection currently available AFAIK. Thus, a removable cartridge
> system that uses SATA connection would be by far the fastest way to
> connect your mass storage. As you said once before, I think, firewire
> might be a second choice, again above USB. As you know, quite a few of
> the external drives are available that have USB and Firewire
> connectors...although you might also find one that has external SATA
> connector if you are really, truly interested in performance as you
> say you are. That would give you the best of both worlds.
>
> However, remember that an external enclosure should also provide for
> adequate cooling of the drive, possibly beyond passive cooling from
> the case itself for a drive that will be used for hours at a time in a
> studio that often will have other equipment around it and/or
> inadequate ventilation. That would mean a small fan, which might add
> an element of noise.
>
> However, the only advantage I can see to such an external drive is the
> easy ability to use it with multiple computers. If that is a
> consideration, I'd find an external enclosure that will connect with
> SATA, Firewire, and USB2.
>
> If, though, USB2 is fast enough for your purposes, then again you are
> thinking of a machine far beyond your needs in terms of performance of
> the other components.
>
> In my judgment, it is helpful to look at a system as a chain and to
> examine every link for pros and cons. Simply because you are "keen" on
> something without considering its limitations does not mean that it is
> the best choice...unless you're prepared for the resulting trade offs.
>
> One of the best values in mid-size towers is the P180 series from
> Antec, but from the sound of things you don't need to go nearly that
> far. I'd think a Sonata series (also from Antec) would be more than
> adequate both in capacity and in reasonable quiet performance.
>
> I'm glad that Mike Chin (who consulted with Antec on the P180 design
> originally, by the way) responded to the issue of elastic suspension
> of the hard drives and why you do it if you're interested in quiet and
> cooling at a budget price. I see no advantage whatsoever to more
> elaborate drive mounts--especially considering that should their
> auxiliary fans fail they can overheat the drive before you're aware of
> a problem. Simplicity has much to recommend it!
>
> One thing you might consider if you go with 4GB of RAM is to dedicate
> part of it to a RAM drive. I have a friend who loads a somewhat
> pared-down version of XP on a RAM drive -- and the performance is
> rather awesome...almost as good as Linux for many things! 8:)
>
> Since Linux is an option, one distribution I'd be interested in is
> Dynebolic...intended for audio and video use. It also contains all the
> tools necessary to do a cluster for audio and video...which might also
> be an option for the occasional perceived need for very high
> performance for your purposes. That might mean, for instance, that a
> dedicated a/v machine could be paired with other machines you have
> around (over a 1 MB LAN, for example)--using the power you need when
> you need it, rather than having everything there all the time, thus
> consuming more power and the resulting complexity).
>
> David
>
> On Jan 14, 2008 9:27 PM, Philip Friel
<phil.friel@...<phil.friel%40gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> > Most of your recommendations for the case, power supply, putting
> > heatsinks on the RAM, and the hard drives are pretty much in line with
> > what I'm already considering, although, as I've said, I'm more keen on
> > using external USB hard drives rather than removable disk cartridges.
> > Dunno about suspending the drive in that elastic hanger thingie, though.
> > I was thinking more of one of those cooled, sound-dampening five inch
> > hard disk enclosures. Still, I'll note the "elastic hanger" down for
> > future reference.
>
>


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