http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/appliance/appliance_fans_blowers.htm

These centrifugal blowers are beautifully made and relatively quiet.
They are still effective at low speeds and will push air through greater
resistance than the average fan.   Blocking a fan just causes it to spin
the air around, which causes no impact from the blades to create forward
motion.  With the centrifugal blower, the increased resistance causes
increased pressure.

The curves in the PDF files show that the pressure is higher than the
average propeller-type fan:

  http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/components/pdf/fal5f.pdf
  http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/appliance/pdf/fba08a.pdf



I bought mine at Digikey:

    http://www.digikey.com

The medium sized one:

    http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/components/pdf/fal5f.pdf

costs about USD$30 at Digikey.

     - Robin

Wow -- Thank you for all the ideas!

Here's my quick rundown of the options so far:

The SV24 looks like a good, cheap, flexible option. But I don't want to take
out the power supply fan, since it may well need the cooling. It'll just be
a very quiet -- which could be good enough.

I hadn't realized that anyone made X terminals at competitive prices. But
the Maxterm, IGEL-J, and Eon 4000 all look very interesting. (A web search
on the Maxterm turned up the last two in the list.) The Advantech components
also look nice, but probably not for the lab -- I think it would require
more configuration work than the packaged solutions.

The Sunray is lots more expensive than the others (once you count the
required software), so that one is out. :(

I'll dig around a bit for information on these, and try to summarize for
other people who are looking into quiet terminals.

9:)     Lindsey Dubb

I just got a 20 gig 60GXP IBM drive (ATA100, 7200 RPM) as a replacement
for a failed earlier, but still current, model DTLA 75GXP drive.
Apparently there has been a lot of failures of these DTLA 75GXP series,
due to some glitches with controllers (including common motherboards and
chipsets).   I wrote a note about this at my hard-drive silencing and
cooling box page:

   http://www.firstpr.com.au/sys-admin/Silent-Hard-Drive/


The 60GXP 20 Gig drive IC35L020AVER07 has one platter and two heads:

   http://www.storage.ibm.com/hdd/desk/ds60gxp.htm
   http://www.storage.ibm.com/hdd/prod/ds60gxpdata.htm

I haven't done any direct comparisons or measurements, but I believe it
is very significantly quieter than the 75GXP drive in terms of
bearing/motor noise and in stepping noise.

   - Robin

Although I consider the FV24 motherboard (used in the SV24 package) to be
a welcome "it's about time" product (because of the compact size and the
built-in Enet and 1394), I'm disappointed in the SV24.

I've seen reviews calling it the PC industry's answer to the Mac Cube, but
it is no such thing.  The Cube was specially designed for convection
cooling, with an external power brick and a "chimney" air flow design. In
contrast, the SV24 shows totally uninspired PC vendor thinking, as
evidenced by *two* fans inside.  Even Compaq and Dell have figured out how
to build PCs with only *one* fan inside!  (Like Lindsey, I think most of
us are uncomfortable just unplugging p/s fans!  It's not that fan-free ATX
supplies don't exist, it's just that the PC vendors don't specify them...
Presumably because they don't understand how important it is to reduce
noise load on humans.)  I also think it's a mistake to put the CD drive at
the top of the box if you want to exploit any convection cooling.

So I think an FV24 mobo in a different flex atx case would be more
interesting than an SV24 --but either way, we still need a reliable source
for a fan-free p/s since TKpower decided to abandon low-volume buyers.
Power-Win makes one that would be a great match for an FV24 system (their
PW-110A-06Y), but they have no distribution outside Taiwan.  Oh well...

On a brighter note, I saw a press release from VIA yesterday that I find
very encouraging.  It describes a new "Ultra-Compact Mini-ITX Mainboard
Reference Design":

   http://www.via.com.tw/jsp/en/pr/pr_itx.jsp

What's significant about this is not the size --there are already mobos
this size.  The Shuttle FV24 is *almost* this small, and there is an FV24
clone from FreeTech (using a newer VIA chipset than the FV24 has) that is
exactly the dimensions of an ITX board.  So what is significant to me is
that the ITX spec drops the requirement for -12v power supply.  By
simplifying the p/s requirements, a whole bunch of existing open-frame
convection-cooled supplies could be used.  So let's hope that the other
mobo vendors and system builders get behind this proposal.

-teg

On Thu, 8 Nov 2001, Robin Whittle wrote:

> As mentioned by Tim Handley in the "X terminal replacement" thread, this
> is a small box-like PC with a compact motherboard and small powersupply:
>
>    http://www.spacewalker.com/sv24.htm
>
> This caused my Windows Netscape 4.77 to freeze and refuse to respond in
> all other browser windows.  It is fine with MSIE 6.
>
> There are lots of pictures and a positive review at:
>
>    http://www.tech-report.com/reviews/2001q4/shuttle-sv24/
>
> The discussion at the end links to various things such as discussion of
> future motherboards.
>
>
> Tim wrote:
>
> > We have been testing them with VIA C3 800MHz processors here and
> > Seagate Baracude IV HDDs.  The C3 is passively cooled and we
> > even removed the PSU fan, leaving only the case fan.  The result is an
> > extremely small but versatile system that is pretty quiet and cool.

On Wed, 7 Nov 2001, Lindsey Dubb wrote:

> So we're looking for something which is silent, cheap, and low
> maintenance -- and don't give a darn about how fast it is or how many
> polygons it can shade. Small size would be a plus.

Sunrays...
www.sun.com/products-n-solutions/hardware/infoappliances.html


--
Rune Larsen
Stud.Scient.Dat.Tek
Yamaha TZR250

--- In Silent-PC@y..., "Lindsey Dubb" <ldubb@u...> wrote:
> At school, we're soon going to need to replace a couple old X
terminals.
> That's a terminal which runs X Windows, not OS X or Windows XP. ;)
>
> So we're looking for something which is silent, cheap, and low
> maintenance -- and don't give a darn about how fast it is or how
many
> polygons it can shade. Small size would be a plus.
>
> I'd be grateful for any ideas in this direction. Would anyone know
of places
> which will assemble and ship a slow/silent/small/simple system?
Depends on how slow it may be and what silent is. It should be fairly
easy, to cool a 300Mhz CPU with a modern heatsink and a voltage
reduced low-noise case fan. Just make sure, the heatsink fits to the
socket. You may have to use a low- noise power supply and hdd
silencers too. Then you won´t hear your computer anymore unless
everything else is completely silent. Only be sure, you buy quality
fans, otherwise your silent system will get loud in time. If slow
means 1GHz instead of 1,5, then things are a bit more complicated.
I don´t know of companies, that assemble complete silent systems, and
your chance of being ripped off is very high (People on the web know
several companies, that sell ripoff silent systems). But since you
want several computers assembling by yourself awfully looks like some
work. On the other hand, especially when you buy several computers,
you should be able to choose by yourself, what they assemble for you.
Best would be, to build and test one computer together with them and
letting them make the others just like it.

Thanks Tim, your Silent PC site is great.  A couple things I would
like to see:

Links to places to purchase the systems or components you list.  Such
as:

- The VIA C3 866  -  I have not seen this available anywhere.  The C3
is hard to find (at least in the U.S. it is)

- Silent systems - Where can I buy an "InformationPC"?



My System:  Linux based WWW/E-Mail/File/Firewall server; VIA C3 800,
Seagate Barracuda IV 40GB, Aopen low profile desktop case.  It's very
quiet, and the performance is very good.

--- In Silent-PC@y..., Tim Handley <fristim1@y...> wrote:
> The C3 is not a high performance chip.  It was designed for it's
low power
> consumption and cool operation which makes it ideal for small form
factor
> designs, i.e. low cooling requirement.  Check out this video:
> http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2001nov/bch20011106008711.htm
>
<http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2001nov/bch20011106008711.htm> .
I'd say
> that you could compare the performance to the Celeron, although
with only
> 64KB of L2 cache, the 3D graphics performance is not the greatest.
It does
> perform well enough for the average user, so it is ideal for a home
> entertainment system for DVD, MP3 and casual gaming (even 3D casual
gaming).
> But for the hard core gamer, AMD have proved to be the best I
reckon.  The
> C3 is pin for pin compatible with the PIII and Celeron and is
totally MS
> compatible.  Check it out:
http://www.via.com.tw/jsp/en/products/C3/c3.jsp
> <http://www.via.com.tw/jsp/en/products/C3/c3.jsp> .
>
> We are building a quiet home broadband gateway/server/entertainment
system
> at the moment and will publish an article on how we built it on our
silent
> PC site ( http://www.via.com.tw/jsp/en/products/C3/C3_silent.jsp
> <http://www.via.com.tw/jsp/en/products/C3/C3_silent.jsp> ) in a few
weeks
> time.  I'll let this groupknow when we publish it.
>
> Tim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andy Laurence [mailto:andylaurence@y...]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 7:53 PM
> To: Silent-PC@y...
> Subject: Re: [Silent-PC] Quiet Alpha...
>
>
>
> > So go and buy a C3 system, mine cost £112 (mb with
> > integrated everything, cpu and mem) and runs just fine
> > with no fans in sight. Cheap and quite is good, but
> > the performance is a bit on the sucky side.
>
> I'm intrigued by this chip.  How fast is it compared to say a
PII/PIII?  Can
> it run DivX movies at fullscreen?  Will it do software DVD?  Check
my sig
> for why I'm intrigued.
>
> Andy
> --
> PC-Based Multimedia System
> http://www.andylaurence.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/pcbmms
> <http://www.andylaurence.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/pcbmms>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> <http://mail.yahoo.com>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Silent-PC-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

-----Original Message-----
From: Todd [mailto:todd_i@...]
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 4:08 PM
To: Silent-PC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Silent-PC] Re: Quiet Alpha...

Thanks Tim, your Silent PC site is great.  A couple things I would
like to see:

Links to places to purchase the systems or components you list.  Such
as:

- The VIA C3 866  -  I have not seen this available anywhere.  The C3
is hard to find (at least in the U.S. it is)

- Silent systems - Where can I buy an "InformationPC"?



My System:  Linux based WWW/E-Mail/File/Firewall server; VIA C3 800,
Seagate Barracuda IV 40GB, Aopen low profile desktop case.  It's very
quiet, and the performance is very good.

--- In Silent-PC@y..., Tim Handley <fristim1@y...> wrote:
> The C3 is not a high performance chip.  It was designed for it's
low power
> consumption and cool operation which makes it ideal for small form
factor
> designs, i.e. low cooling requirement.  Check out this video:
> http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2001nov/bch20011106008711.htm
>
<http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2001nov/bch20011106008711.htm> . 
I'd say
> that you could compare the performance to the Celeron, although
with only
> 64KB of L2 cache, the 3D graphics performance is not the greatest. 
It does
> perform well enough for the average user, so it is ideal for a home
> entertainment system for DVD, MP3 and casual gaming (even 3D casual
gaming).
> But for the hard core gamer, AMD have proved to be the best I
reckon.  The
> C3 is pin for pin compatible with the PIII and Celeron and is
totally MS
> compatible.  Check it out:
http://www.via.com.tw/jsp/en/products/C3/c3.jsp
> <http://www.via.com.tw/jsp/en/products/C3/c3.jsp> . 
> 
> We are building a quiet home broadband gateway/server/entertainment
system
> at the moment and will publish an article on how we built it on our
silent
> PC site ( http://www.via.com.tw/jsp/en/products/C3/C3_silent.jsp
> <http://www.via.com.tw/jsp/en/products/C3/C3_silent.jsp> ) in a few
weeks
> time.  I'll let this groupknow when we publish it.
> 
> Tim
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andy Laurence [mailto:andylaurence@y...]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 7:53 PM
> To: Silent-PC@y...
> Subject: Re: [Silent-PC] Quiet Alpha...
>
>
>
> > So go and buy a C3 system, mine cost £112 (mb with
> > integrated everything, cpu and mem) and runs just fine
> > with no fans in sight. Cheap and quite is good, but
> > the performance is a bit on the sucky side.
>
> I'm intrigued by this chip.  How fast is it compared to say a
PII/PIII?  Can
> it run DivX movies at fullscreen?  Will it do software DVD?  Check
my sig
> for why I'm intrigued.
>
> Andy
> --
> PC-Based Multimedia System
> http://www.andylaurence.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/pcbmms
> <http://www.andylaurence.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/pcbmms>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> <http://mail.yahoo.com> 
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Silent-PC-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Silent-PC-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

> Macintosh G4 or Dell 8200 are excellent  computers, but their level of
> noise is pretty high. I have neither the time nor I am inclined
> to tinker with fans or other things to reduce the noise. I have heard that
> European manufacturers pay more attention to the reduction of noise. If
> this is true, could somebody help me by  mentioning  a European computer
> comparable  to the above Macintosh or Dell computers but with a lower
level
> of noise?

I'm sitting in front of a Dell Optiplex GX150.  It's quiet.  The casing is
really well made so sound doesn't travel from it.  Well worth considering.

Andy


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

On Thu, Nov 08, 2001 at 08:47:39AM -0000, Andy Laurence wrote:
> I'm sitting in front of a Dell Optiplex GX150.  It's quiet.  The casing is
> really well made so sound doesn't travel from it.  Well worth considering.

indeed, I also can vouch for the Dell GX150. It impressed me a lot.
However, it's still audible, and you can definitely hear the drive
seeking... Not that that's a _major_ issue, but you _can_ hear it...


rr

--
Richard Russell
Yellow Goanna Pty Ltd
e: richard@...
m: +61 412 827 805
f: +61 8 8462 2362

On Thu, Nov 08, 2001 at 02:21:08PM +1300, Simon Murcott wrote:
> Quoting Lindsey Dubb <ldubb@...>:
>
> > So we're looking for something which is silent, cheap, and low
> > maintenance -- and don't give a darn about how fast it is or how many
> > polygons it can shade. Small size would be a plus.
>
> http://www.sun.com/products/sunray/sunray1/

cheap -- yeah, unless you buy the server software needed to make them
work... unless someone knows of open source replacements?

rr

>
> No fans what-so-ever.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Silent-PC-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

--
Richard Russell
Yellow Goanna Pty Ltd
e: richard@...
m: +61 412 827 805
f: +61 8 8462 2362

> > I'm sitting in front of a Dell Optiplex GX150.  It's quiet.  The casing
is
> > really well made so sound doesn't travel from it.  Well worth
considering.
>
> indeed, I also can vouch for the Dell GX150. It impressed me a lot.
> However, it's still audible, and you can definitely hear the drive
> seeking... Not that that's a _major_ issue, but you _can_ hear it...

It must be quite noisy here then, as I can't hear them (we have 9 in this
room and 4 in another).  I can hear the Dell servers in the server room over
the sound of all 9 of the optiplexes, and the printer is, in comparison,
deafening.  I am by the window though, so there's probably a lot of
background noise I'm unaware of.

Andy


_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

I seem to remember that at least dgym was looking
to quiet the only component that is by default
an arm's lenght away from the user's ears,
the keyboard.

Here's a link to that effect I stumbled upon:

http://store.yahoo.com/pckeyboards/keyboards.html

I am looking to get the Mighty Mouse keyboard as
it includes a trackpoint (IBM one). It's by Unicomp,
the company that manufactures ThinkPad keyboards.
I have a ThinkPad and it is very pleasing to my ears.

http://store.yahoo.com/pckeyboards/migmousblac.html

There's also another silent offering by IBM in the
101 form factor:

http://store.yahoo.com/pckeyboards/ibmps2enquie.html

Big thank you's go to Mad Ad and all you who gave
me private advice on the beastly Tbird issue!

Timo

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Only yesterday I evaluated a Dell GX150 and an HP e-pc for use in quiet
conference rooms.  I found them both too noisy, even though much better
than "average" systems.

"Standards vary" :)

(And it should also be said that there can be substantial noise
differences between samples of the same PC model, due to inconsistent disk
drive manufacturing.  Two "identical" disk drives can have wildly
different noise profiles.)

-teg

On Thu, 8 Nov 2001, Andy Laurence wrote:

> > > I'm sitting in front of a Dell Optiplex GX150.  It's quiet.  The casing
> > > is really well made so sound doesn't travel from it.  Well worth
> > > considering.
> >
> > indeed, I also can vouch for the Dell GX150. It impressed me a lot.
> > However, it's still audible, and you can definitely hear the drive
> > seeking... Not that that's a _major_ issue, but you _can_ hear it...
>
> It must be quite noisy here then, as I can't hear them (we have 9 in this
> room and 4 in another).  I can hear the Dell servers in the server room over
> the sound of all 9 of the optiplexes, and the printer is, in comparison,
> deafening.  I am by the window though, so there's probably a lot of
> background noise I'm unaware of.
>
> Andy

But they still don't show the C3 866, which was the one Todd asked about.

-teg

On Thu, 8 Nov 2001, Tim Handley wrote:

> C3 CPUs are available in the USA from:
> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/Category/category_tlc.asp?id=22
> <http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/Category/category_tlc.asp?id=22> .
>
>
> The Information PC, Set Top Box and Web Pad are only reference designs right
> now.  They will be produced at a later stage, so are not available for sale
> immediately.
>
> Thanks for your ideas, we're working on expanding the site to include other
> useful info, so keep the ideas coming.
>
> Tim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Todd [mailto:todd_i@...]
> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 4:08 PM
> To: Silent-PC@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Silent-PC] Re: Quiet Alpha...
>
>
> Thanks Tim, your Silent PC site is great.  A couple things I would
> like to see:
>
> Links to places to purchase the systems or components you list.  Such
> as:
>
> - The VIA C3 866  -  I have not seen this available anywhere.  The C3
> is hard to find (at least in the U.S. it is)
>
> - Silent systems - Where can I buy an "InformationPC"?
>
>
>
> My System:  Linux based WWW/E-Mail/File/Firewall server; VIA C3 800,
> Seagate Barracuda IV 40GB, Aopen low profile desktop case.  It's very
> quiet, and the performance is very good.
>
> --- In Silent-PC@y..., Tim Handley <fristim1@y...> wrote:
> > The C3 is not a high performance chip.  It was designed for it's
> low power
> > consumption and cool operation which makes it ideal for small form
> factor
> > designs, i.e. low cooling requirement.  Check out this video:
> > http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2001nov/bch20011106008711.htm
> <http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2001nov/bch20011106008711.htm>
> >
> < http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2001nov/bch20011106008711.htm
> <http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2001nov/bch20011106008711.htm> > .
> I'd say
> > that you could compare the performance to the Celeron, although
> with only
> > 64KB of L2 cache, the 3D graphics performance is not the greatest.
> It does
> > perform well enough for the average user, so it is ideal for a home
> > entertainment system for DVD, MP3 and casual gaming (even 3D casual
> gaming).
> > But for the hard core gamer, AMD have proved to be the best I
> reckon.  The
> > C3 is pin for pin compatible with the PIII and Celeron and is
> totally MS
> > compatible.  Check it out:
> http://www.via.com.tw/jsp/en/products/C3/c3.jsp
> <http://www.via.com.tw/jsp/en/products/C3/c3.jsp>
> > < http://www.via.com.tw/jsp/en/products/C3/c3.jsp
> <http://www.via.com.tw/jsp/en/products/C3/c3.jsp> > .
> >
> > We are building a quiet home broadband gateway/server/entertainment
> system
> > at the moment and will publish an article on how we built it on our
> silent
> > PC site ( http://www.via.com.tw/jsp/en/products/C3/C3_silent.jsp
> <http://www.via.com.tw/jsp/en/products/C3/C3_silent.jsp>
> > < http://www.via.com.tw/jsp/en/products/C3/C3_silent.jsp
> <http://www.via.com.tw/jsp/en/products/C3/C3_silent.jsp> > ) in a few
> weeks
> > time.  I'll let this groupknow when we publish it.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Andy Laurence [mailto:andylaurence@y...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 7:53 PM
> > To: Silent-PC@y...
> > Subject: Re: [Silent-PC] Quiet Alpha...
> >
> >
> >
> > > So go and buy a C3 system, mine cost £112 (mb with
> > > integrated everything, cpu and mem) and runs just fine
> > > with no fans in sight. Cheap and quite is good, but
> > > the performance is a bit on the sucky side.
> >
> > I'm intrigued by this chip.  How fast is it compared to say a
> PII/PIII?  Can
> > it run DivX movies at fullscreen?  Will it do software DVD?  Check
> my sig
> > for why I'm intrigued.
> >
> > Andy
> > --
> > PC-Based Multimedia System
> > http://www.andylaurence.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/pcbmms
> <http://www.andylaurence.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/pcbmms>
> > < http://www.andylaurence.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/pcbmms
> <http://www.andylaurence.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/pcbmms> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> <http://mail.yahoo.com>
> > < http://mail.yahoo.com <http://mail.yahoo.com> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Silent-PC-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> > < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >
> .
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Silent-PC-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>
>

--- In Silent-PC@y..., "Mad Ad" <madmail@n...> wrote:
> A quick fix on the case *might* be just tapeing a strip of 2" wide
gaffa
> across the inside middle.  Its a fast and dirty way of reducing the
> resonance in the center of the sidepanel.  Not perfect but cured a
little
> tremble for me.
>
> Ad

What is gaffa?? Some kind of damping tape, I presume? I taped a thin
strip of foam cut from an old pad for sleeping bags so that it was
braced between the vibrating panel and the main PC case. Cut the
noise completely.

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Timo Haanpää" <htimo@h...>
> To: <Silent-PC@y...>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 12:53 PM
> Subject: [Silent-PC] Tbird 1400/Silverado question
>
> > I have a month old Athlon 1400 inside a Lian
> > Li PC60USB, a Silverado on top of the CPU
> > and anonymous "silent" 300W PSU.

This anonymous "silent" 300W PSU -- does it have intake vents at the
back only or also at the bottom (the part that faces the CPU)? If
there is no vent at the bottom, consider cutting a 3-4" diameter hole
in the PSU cover to improve ventilation & cooling. It often results
in 2-5 deg C drops at the CPU -- or lets you run the fans slower
safely.

Also, by "silent", do you mean it isn't? Try replacing the fan with a
quiet Panaflo or slowing down the existing fan by running it at 7V or
adding series resistance -- 20 ohms is probably a good starting
point.

Heck, this
> > is much better than my previous Tbird 900 but
> > still noisy.

What are the primary sources of noise? I have an IBM 60GXP, which
seems fairly quiet to me, although the grinding noise during movement
of the heads seems unavoidable. That doesn't bother me much, its the
high pitched whine or constant hum that bugs me more. I actually
created a noise reduction device for my HDs that you might be
interested in checking out or modifiying for your application...
http://www.overclockers.com/tips454/

The other ADDA front fan is
> > turned off at the time being and as I don't
> > plan on doing any number crunching for now,
> > I downclocked the CPU to 1200. Sandra says
> > I'm running at a constant 49-51 C in ordinary
> > use. I used to get as high as 58-60 C with only
> > the Silverado, PSU and on intake fan running
> > (at 1400 MHz). My mobo's MSI K7T266Pro with
> > two IBM 60GXPs running in a RAID 0 array.

Did you find that RAID 0 operation makes the drives run quieter than
in non-RAID? That was my impression, though now that I no longer run
any RAID config, I'm not so sure anymore...

> >
> > The aluminum case side doors resonate at
> > times, badly, and the constant low hum is
> > getting to me. I've thought about padding
> > the sides with a wad of bubble wrap so they
> > would be pushed against the frame and not
> > moving, but that's as far as my ingenuity goes.
> >
> > I'd like to hear your opinions as to how to
> > quiet this thing down. I have a fanless 24/7
> > Linux box in the works but there's no point
> > in working on that since my main puter is a
> > noisy monster!
> >
> > Cheers from chilly Finland,
> >
> > Timo
> >
> > (and no, I'm not putting my puter out on
> > the yard even though it will be freezing
> > outside for the next five months!)

You may also take old silent 200Mhz computers and use them diskless. You
boot them with a ROM that you put on a floppy, on the ethernet card or on
the bios.
Your workstations download the kernel via tftp and mount the root via nfs
and then start X.
You only need a good server if you chose to run the applications remotely on
the server. (for example a low cost AMD duron 900, depends of how much
workstations) and a 100Mbit network.
Il will also be faster to load applications because once a workstation has
load one, it is already resident in memory for the others.
It is very easy to maintain because there is no disk on the worksations.
Only the server to maintain.

----- Original Message -----
Depends on how slow it may be and what silent is. It should be fairly
easy, to cool a 300Mhz CPU with a modern heatsink and a voltage
reduced low-noise case fan. Just make sure, the heatsink fits to the
socket. You may have to use a low- noise power supply and hdd
silencers too. Then you won´t hear your computer anymore unless
everything else is completely silent. Only be sure, you buy quality
fans, otherwise your silent system will get loud in time. If slow
means 1GHz instead of 1,5, then things are a bit more complicated.
I don´t know of companies, that assemble complete silent systems, and
your chance of being ripped off is very high (People on the web know
several companies, that sell ripoff silent systems). But since you
want several computers assembling by yourself awfully looks like some
work. On the other hand, especially when you buy several computers,
you should be able to choose by yourself, what they assemble for you.
Best would be, to build and test one computer together with them and
letting them make the others just like it.


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Gaffa as in gaffer tape, vinyl tape, mesh tape, duct
tape, jesus tape... guess you know the cure-all. =)
(see http://www.identi-tape.com/ for more info)

My take on this was to make a duct tape cross on the
side panels and stick a baffle of closed-cell superlon
about the size of my palm in the middle. This keeps
the motherboard side panel from vibrating. As to the
other side, I put some three layers of clear vinyl
tape on the rail the panel slides on for a snug fit.
No more bad vibes but still too much noise.

Maybe I should try a baffle box like the one Larry
Mingus describes here
http://www.makeitsimple.com/projects/case_noise/index.shtml

Or mebbe I should just march downtown and buy myself
one of the slower Papst fans, I hear there's a store
downtown that has them on stock. 19€ a pop, though.

Anybody care to offer a comment on air flow noise?

I mean, even if I stuck my case with 100€ worth of
Papst fans there would still be air coming in and
out and that makes noise. As the 1500rpm Papst is
rated at 12 dB and the 2050 one at 19 dB, what would
be a good combination of cooling performance/overall
noise level for Tbird @1400? I've noticed the IBM
60GXPs do not generate much heat as the two are
not spinning constantly and as I toned down the
speed and noise with IBM's Feature Tool.

Timo

--
From: <mikechinvan@...>

>What is gaffa?? Some kind of damping tape, I presume? I taped a thin strip
>of foam cut from an old pad for sleeping bags so that it was braced between
>the vibrating panel and the main PC case. Cut the noise completely.




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Bugger. 'Tseems Yahoogroups don't like the
Euro currency sign. The 19? in there is 19
Euros, in case you didn't guess what I was
coming to. A common problem, btw.

Timo

--From: "Timo HaanpXX" <htimo@...>

>Or mebbe I should just march downtown and buy myself
>one of the slower Papst fans, I hear there's a store
>downtown that has them on stock. 19? a pop, though.


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only 32Mb ram? looks a bit of an old model.

Ad


----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Gray" <gray+silent@...>
To: <Silent-PC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 12:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Silent-PC] X terminal replacement


> Lindsey,
> I know nothing about these folks, or this particular product, but they
> keep coming up in my periodic Google searches for fan-free PCs...
>
>   http://www.maxspeed.com/Products/maxtermut2.html
>
> -teg
>
> On Wed, 7 Nov 2001, Lindsey Dubb wrote:
>
> > At school, we're soon going to need to replace a couple old X terminals.
> > That's a terminal which runs X Windows, not OS X or Windows XP. ;)
> >
> > So we're looking for something which is silent, cheap, and low
> > maintenance -- and don't give a darn about how fast it is or how many
> > polygons it can shade. Small size would be a plus.
> >
> > I'd be grateful for any ideas in this direction. Would anyone know of
places
> > which will assemble and ship a slow/silent/small/simple system?
> >
> > (If it gets too expensive, it'll make more sense to hunt down some old
Mac
> > Cubes.)
> >
> > 9:)     Lindsey Dubb
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > Silent-PC-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Silent-PC-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Timo Haanpää" <htimo@...>
To: <Silent-PC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 5:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Silent-PC] Re: Tbird 1400/Silverado question


> Gaffa as in gaffer tape, vinyl tape, mesh tape, duct
> tape, jesus tape... guess you know the cure-all. =)
> (see http://www.identi-tape.com/ for more info)

Hehehe, yeah, u got the stuff.  Official name is Vinyl Coated PCL Cloth
Tape, 50M on a big roll, comes in silver, blue, green infact every colour u
can get excluding moonlight beige.  AKA (in the UK) gaffa tape, duct tape,
duck tape, frame tape, waterproof tape, cloth tape and a few others ive
forgot - but despite selling the stuff in palletloads one year of my working
life, ive never heard it called jesus tape, lmao!!!! Whys that? Cuz it saves
everything? :)

Ad

>
> My take on this was to make a duct tape cross on the
> side panels and stick a baffle of closed-cell superlon
> about the size of my palm in the middle. This keeps
> the motherboard side panel from vibrating. As to the
> other side, I put some three layers of clear vinyl
> tape on the rail the panel slides on for a snug fit.
> No more bad vibes but still too much noise.
>
> Maybe I should try a baffle box like the one Larry
> Mingus describes here
> http://www.makeitsimple.com/projects/case_noise/index.shtml
>
> Or mebbe I should just march downtown and buy myself
> one of the slower Papst fans, I hear there's a store
> downtown that has them on stock. 19? a pop, though.
>
> Anybody care to offer a comment on air flow noise?
>
> I mean, even if I stuck my case with 100? worth of
> Papst fans there would still be air coming in and
> out and that makes noise. As the 1500rpm Papst is
> rated at 12 dB and the 2050 one at 19 dB, what would
> be a good combination of cooling performance/overall
> noise level for Tbird @1400? I've noticed the IBM
> 60GXPs do not generate much heat as the two are
> not spinning constantly and as I toned down the
> speed and noise with IBM's Feature Tool.
>
> Timo
>
> --
> From: <mikechinvan@...>
>
> >What is gaffa?? Some kind of damping tape, I presume? I taped a thin
strip
> >of foam cut from an old pad for sleeping bags so that it was braced
between
> >the vibrating panel and the main PC case. Cut the noise completely.
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Silent-PC-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

I think you should check out CapTech products in Sweden, they produce
a series of computer models designed to be as quite as possible.

I haven’t got any personal experience with their products but I have
heard rumours that they are really really really quite…
Anyway, check out their website at http://www.captech.se/

          -J


At 21:49 2001-11-07, you wrote:

>Macintosh G4 or Dell 8200 are excellent  computers, but their level of
>noise is pretty high. I have neither the time nor I am inclined
>to tinker with fans or other things to reduce the noise. I have heard that
>European manufacturers pay more attention to the reduction of noise. If
>this is true, could somebody help me by  mentioning  a European computer
>comparable  to the above Macintosh or Dell computers but with a lower level
>of noise?
>
>Sebastian Shaumyan
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Silent-PC-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--- In Silent-PC@y..., "Timo Haanpää" <htimo@h...> wrote:
>
> Maybe I should try a baffle box like the one Larry
> Mingus describes here
> http://www.makeitsimple.com/projects/case_noise/index.shtml

This works somewhat. It reduces the air turbulence noise, and also
changes the frequency balance of the sound -- ie, it cuts higher
frequency noise much more than lower frequency noise, thus causing
the "shhhhhh" of the fan to become more of a "fffooooo". In the end,
I abandoned my "muffler box" because it was not quite effective
enough in my setup.

You might want to try it though.

My "muffler box" was made of 1/4" plywood panels, glued together,
with dual channels & holes cut to fit perfectly over the PSU exhaust
fan outlet and the back panel case fan opening. It was lined with
3/4" foam -- I used silicone glue to help damp the wood panel
resonances (though with the panels being so small, any panel
resonance were probably too high in freq. for the damping material to
have any effect).

The rear case fan opening was being used to draw fresh air directly
to the HSF using a flexible vinyl duct, one end squeezed completely
over the fan, the other clipped tightly against the back panel fan
opening using twist-ties. The intake opening at the bottom of the
muffler box; the PSU outlet closer to the top. Overall dimensions
were 17" high, 4.5" wide, 5" deep. The effective "tunnel" lengths
were about 8" for the PSU outlet and about 10" for the rear fan
intake. Cross section of the tunnels was about the same area as 80mm
fans.

If you'd like I can send you pics.
>
> Or mebbe I should just march downtown and buy myself
> one of the slower Papst fans, I hear there's a store
> downtown that has them on stock. 19€ a pop, though.
>
> Anybody care to offer a comment on air flow noise?
>
> I mean, even if I stuck my case with 100€ worth of
> Papst fans there would still be air coming in and
> out and that makes noise.

Yeah, this is a fundamental problem. It's almost impossible to cool
modern CPUs without a fan -- even at slow rpm, there's always the
noise of air turbulence. Decoupling the fan using various damped
mounting techniques minimizes vibration transmission from the fan,
which can help a lot. This -- http://www.overclockers.com/tips457 --
is my favorite. It's so goofy & simple, but really effective.

Cutting away any "grill" mesh over the fan holes and enlarging them
so that the edge does not block any part of the fan air path
reduces the turbulence noise. When you have reduced other noises,
this can have quite an audible effect.

I am actually working on a computer cabinet designed to silence any
PC (that's already not too noisy):

1) Enclose the PC in a heavy, damped chamber to block noise from
getting out
2) Provide good cooling airflow
3) Damp fan noise using acoustically lined tunnels for both in/out
airflow (adaptation of the muffler box idea)
4) Allow easly access to the PC -- front, sides & back

The ideas for this are similar to what you can find here:

http://www.custom-consoles.com/products.html
http://www.lysator.liu.se/~forsberg/silence_box.html

I am hoping to achieve absolute silence. (Yeah, right!) I'm about
halfway finished building. Will let you know how it works.

One drawback of this cabinet is that it's pretty big. Designed for a
single ATX mid-tower case, the thing is 27"H x 25"D x 11.5"W. It will
just fit under my desk... ;)

BTW, this guy Regis
(http://panda.bg.univ.gda.pl/~regis/g/porady/coolingeng.html) has
succeeded a building a PC (Duron 600 oc'd to 900) that he
says "...works almost in perfect silence. When the room is isolated
from any kind of ambient noise you cant decide whether the PC is on
or off standing just three meters away." Some clever & interesting
techniques there.

As the 1500rpm Papst is
> rated at 12 dB and the 2050 one at 19 dB, what would
> be a good combination of cooling performance/overall
> noise level for Tbird @1400? 12 & 19 are really low, but what's the
cfm, and can it actually
deliver that airflow through whatever resistance there is in your
case? Your question can't really be answered theoretically -- too
many variables. You'll just have to try it.

PS -- Sorry if this post is too long.

> I mean, even if I stuck my case with 100€ worth of
> Papst fans there would still be air coming in and
> out and that makes noise.
Yes, if it comes through tiny holes. I´m thinking of cutting all the
metal out behind the fan and replacing it with a fan cover (or
however that metal thing is called). Only haven´t found the right
tool yet.

On Thu, Nov 08, 2001 at 06:56:30PM -0000, Mad Ad wrote:
> only 32Mb ram? looks a bit of an old model.

or one designed to be cheap and quiet and run as an X Terminal...

rr

--
Richard Russell
Yellow Goanna Pty Ltd
e: richard@...
m: +61 412 827 805
f: +61 8 8462 2362

> You may also take old silent 200Mhz computers and use them diskless. You
> boot them with a ROM that you put on a floppy, on the ethernet card or on
> the bios.

That's a possibility. Can anyone think of some old silent computers to look
for?

9:)     Lindsey Dubb

--- In Silent-PC@y..., steve196@m... wrote:
> > I mean, even if I stuck my case with 100€ worth of
> > Papst fans there would still be air coming in and
> > out and that makes noise.
> Yes, if it comes through tiny holes. I´m thinking of cutting all
the
> metal out behind the fan and replacing it with a fan cover (or
> however that metal thing is called). Only haven´t found the right
> tool yet.

Dremels work wonders for sheet steel.  If you have the tiny size
holes, then replacing them with the wire finger-guards would probably
drop your fan noise about 20% due to the decrease in cavitation.

-Joel

Over here in South Africa a C3 800Mhz CPU is R500 (about US$50) and
the Gigabyte motherboard they recommend for it is R600 (about $60)
(GA6VMM : Via Apollo PLE133, FC-PGA370 AGPset (133MHz FSB) with
graphics & audio on board)

Dont know how much shipping would be, but that a lot less than
than the US$200 case recommended in the recent slashdot.com article
(http://slashdot.org/features/01/10/29/1723228.shtml)

mailto:srolof@...

Someone at 03:46 07/11/2001 -0800, wrote:
>And at what cost? I never found out how much the chips
>are, but I suspect around $1000 for 800Mhz. I suspect
>this because of the relative prices of the
>motherboards. The one pointed out retails for $3700,
>and that is JUST for the motherboard.

> Only yesterday I evaluated a Dell GX150 and an HP e-pc for use in quiet
> conference rooms.  I found them both too noisy, even though much better
> than "average" systems.
>
> "Standards vary" :)
>
> (And it should also be said that there can be substantial noise
> differences between samples of the same PC model, due to inconsistent disk
> drive manufacturing.  Two "identical" disk drives can have wildly
> different noise profiles.)

Indeed.  I suspect we have been very lucky here, and also have more
background noise than the average office.

Andy
--
PC-Based Multimedia System
http://www.andylaurence.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/pcbmms


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> > You may also take old silent 200Mhz computers and use them diskless. You
> > boot them with a ROM that you put on a floppy, on the ethernet card or
on
> > the bios.
>
> That's a possibility. Can anyone think of some old silent computers to
look
> for?

Anything Pentium (not PII, PIII...), and under 233MHz (they all were I
believe) will run fanless.  I have two twin processor P200 servers running
fanless.  It's a pity the old SCSI disks are so loud.

Andy
--
PC-Based Multimedia System
http://www.andylaurence.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/pcbmms


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