Hi folks,

I thought this was interesting enough to many of you to re-post it
from the WebStar list...

FWIW, from reading descriptions on smart tags, I don't believe they
can hijack websites written in flash like the way they can in html.
Text in flash is converted to vector objects in the swf (that's why
any font can be used and rendered correctly even if the user doesn't
have the font on his system.  So, I don't think the STs can read it
in their current design.

ATB,

/wayne

__________________

From: "Sensei" <sapir131@...>
<webstar-talk@...>

Hello everybody,

Some of the posters on my favorite lists use the following quote as their
signature line:

> "The Web is exciting for two reasons.
> One, it's ubiquitous. Two, I don't
> think Microsoft will figure out a way
> to own it."
>
> Steve Jobs

I am quite sorry to inform you all that this is no longer true! Microsoft
HAVE figured out a way to STEAL (as opposed to own) EVERY web site out on
the web regardless of its serving platform.

The technology for this has been integrated in its new OS (still in beta)
called Windows XP, its new browser (also still in beta) called Microsoft
Internet Explorer 6 and its new Office suit (released) called Office XP.

The technology is called "Smart Tags" and the end result is that YOUR web
sites will be defaced with links that you never intended to be there.
Actually they will look like purple squiggly underlines that when clicked on
will display a menu of links to relevant (as deemed relevant by Microsoft
and/or its partners) sites.

Apart from the fact that your web site will be defaced with those multiple
purple squiggly underlines you will have NO editorial control over the
links.

Suppose that you develop a database product called "yourSQL " and you have a
web site promoting it. With this new technology any visitor to your web site
(using MSIE 6) might see every occurrence of the word "SQL" as a smart tag
link to Microsoft's MSSQL product centric sites (including its own web
site), every occurrence of "yourSQL" as a smart tag link to unfavorable
reviews of your product (3 major releases ago) and every occurrence of your
name as a smart tag link to an unflattering personal expose based on high
school rumors and innuendo dated 15 years ago.

Are we getting the picture?!...

This technology will, according to Microsoft, be turned of by default but
the beta that I viewed had it turned on by default...

While it is also true that (at least for now) we can turn the technology off
by adding this:

<meta name="MSSmartTagsPreventParsing" content="TRUE">

However, this entails that we change EACH and EVERY of our hundreds or even
thousands of existing web pages AND we will have to address also ALL the
pages that we create dynamically AND we will have change ALL the templates
that we use for the creation of new pages.

Will anybody compensate us for the enormous amount of work involved in
implementing the fix?! What will prevent Microsoft from changing the above
fix (entailing a further repeat of implementing the fix).Will anybody
guarantee that the fix will work at all in future releases?!

And the court just gave Microsoft more time to get a strangle hold on this
industry...

We HAVE to create a world wide ruckus AND have all US web masters, site
designers and site owners write to their elected representatives. And the
sooner the better.

Sorry if I have spoiled your weekend :-(
Wayne Townsend
Founder, AccessOn

Visit: http://www.PalmSpringsBingo.com
waynet@...
Alt: waynet@...
http://www.accesson.net

Studio: Palm Springs, CA
760.228.2301

Hi,

Are there any POP3 or IMAP X's, for accessing email servers, and downloading
mail listings and content??

Does anybody know how to write such an X??

Is it possible??

Moreover, how would one go about building an email server?? Is there any way
for SC to capture POP/IMAP requests from clients (in a server fashion)...

Thanks

Ad.

PS You might guess, I'm trying to build an integrated email app...

Of course, the downside of that (which works equally well for GIF
text), is that search engines cannot read it either.

Adam Bell

At 11:26 AM -0700 7/1/01, Wayne Townsend wrote:
>Hi folks,
>
>I thought this was interesting enough to many of you to re-post it
>from the WebStar list...
>
>FWIW, from reading descriptions on smart tags, I don't believe they
>can hijack websites written in flash like the way they can in html.
>Text in flash is converted to vector objects in the swf (that's why
>any font can be used and rendered correctly even if the user doesn't
>have the font on his system.  So, I don't think the STs can read it
>in their current design.
>
>ATB,
>

>Of course, the downside of that (which works equally well for GIF
>text), is that search engines cannot read it either.
>
>Adam Bell
>

No Adam, you can set an swf up with search tags.

/w

Wayne Townsend
Founder, AccessOn

Visit: http://www.PalmSpringsBingo.com
waynet@...
Alt: waynet@...
http://www.accesson.net

Studio: Palm Springs, CA
760.228.2301

And a hidden layer (HTML 4) too.

ACB

>  >Of course, the downside of that (which works equally well for GIF
>>text), is that search engines cannot read it either.
>>
>>Adam Bell
>>
>
>No Adam, you can set an swf up with search tags.
>
>/w
>
>Wayne Townsend
>Founder, AccessOn
>
>Visit: http://www.PalmSpringsBingo.com
>waynet@...
>Alt: waynet@...
>http://www.accesson.net
>
>Studio: Palm Springs, CA
>760.228.2301
>
>To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to:
>SuperCard-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Adam observed:
>  >Of course, the downside of that (which works equally well for GIF
>  >text), is that search engines cannot read it either.

To which Wayne Townsend pointed out:
>No Adam, you can set an swf up with search tags.

Hmph. More work though. More importantly for me, you can't select and
drag-drop/copy-paste Flash text. Not unless it is an editable text
field, in which case we might as well go back to HTML 1.0! :-)

Flash is jaw-droppingly stunning for lots of stuff, but it ain't snake oil! ;-)

Anyway, from the latest news it appears that Beelzebub inc. - sorry,
Microsoft - has made an embarrassing climbdown on this front; it will
not, so reports say, now be implemented in either IE 6 or in Windows
XP. You can read the MacUser news story on this at
<http://www.macuser.co.uk/guest/php3/openframe.php3?page=/newnews/newsarticle.ph\
p3?id=1179>

And for those too impatient to click and wait a few seconds, here's
how the article starts:


    "Neither Windows XP nor the accompanying Internet Explorer 6
     will carry the much derided Smart Tags when they are launched
     in the autumn.

    "The details behind this decision have yet to emerge, but a
     Microsoft UK spokesperson has confirmed that Windows XP and
     Internet Explorer 6 would not contain the Smart Tags feature
     when they are launched, 25 October. More official information
     will be forthcoming this afternoon, we have been promised.

    "Microsoft will have thought long and hard before making what
     will be regarded as an embarrassing climb down. After all, the
     company has been busy extolling the functionality of these
     programmable tags for its recently released Office XP suite.

    "It seems pressure from American state bodies, and from within
     the industry itself, may have put Microsoft temporarily on the
     back foot. Critics are alleging that Microsoft has learnt
     nothing from its recent anti-trust case and was again using
     its monopoly-like position to control the behaviour of browsers."


Phew.

k
--

+++++++++++++++++   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
       Keith Martin   Technical Editor, MacUser magazine
                                        http://www.macuser.co.uk/
       MacUser Help   mailto:help@...
               work   mailto:tech_ed@...
           personal > mailto:keith@...
             static   www.vortex.co.uk
         Mac-driven > http://www.vortex.uk.com/
       direct (work)  +44 (0)20 7907 6360
             mobile   0790 954 1365

>
>More importantly for me, you can't select and
>drag-drop/copy-paste Flash text. Not unless it is an editable text
>field, in which case we might as well go back to HTML 1.0! :-)

God forbid!  :)

But you make a good point, Keith.

At any rate, it would seem to me that it is the responsibility of the
web designer to put certain text that the audience may wish to copy
into editable flash text fields, doesn't it?  That's just good web
design.


And yes, the Flash/Flame combo is the greatest thing since sliced
bread, so there!  :)

This latest MS world domination scheme (not to worry, there will be
others) is just another example of why web designers should dump html
for it.  No one, no not one SC developer that I know of who has taken
this advice has regretted their decision.  Guys, you can chime in
here anytime.  ;)

And Keith, don't you think Web Apps built with this Flash/Flame
technology deserve a new story in your mag?  So many developers would
be empowered if they only knew.  If they only knew.  I'm happy to
provide content and technique tips.

Here's a toast to you and hoping,

Thanks for the link to that article,
http://www.macuser.co.uk/guest/php3/openframe.php3?page=/newnews/newsa
rticle.php3?id=1179

And say "howdy & wazzup!" to Jon for me when you see him,

/w

Wayne Townsend
Founder, AccessOn

Visit: http://www.PalmSpringsBingo.com
waynet@...
Alt: waynet@...
http://www.accesson.net

Studio: Palm Springs, CA
760.228.2301

I like the letter..

I was shocked to find a site which has 12 pages of search matches for my
email address...

Even if they have taken the actual pages down, like they claim to have done,
the main search database and site index still contains the address as the
"overviews" of each article.

You might want to add something about the UK Data Privacy Act, of 1984.

They may claim that it is a US list, but it's always worth overwhelming them
with legalese...

If anybody in the US knows about IPR, Data Privacy and Generic Copyrighting,
then it would be worth a few quotes to insert into a letter.

Nice work Keith

Ad.


on 29/6/01 12:09 am, SuperCard@yahoogroups.com at SuperCard@yahoogroups.com
wrote:

> Subject: Privacy complaint
>
> It has come to my attention that you are republishing entire archived
> portions of email discussion mailing lists for free-form searching
> via Web browsers.
>
> One of those mailing lists at least, the SuperCard one, had made it
> very clear to the list provider - and had that decision accepted -
> that the publishing of any list content without masking the senders'
> email addresses was unacceptable.
>
> Your statement that "FAQchest can not be held liable of divulging
> these E-mail addresses as these individuals willfully identify
> themselves when they post their contribution to world wide
> distributed discussion groups, boards or mailing lists" is not a
> valid excuse for your actions. The SuperCard list is a private one
> not ever published on Web sites or Usenet, and none of the members
> wanted their addresses published in any way. The use of a mailing
> list does not imply granting permission to republish email addresses.
>
> Could you please explain where you obtained this email list data, who
> offered you the republishing permission, and when this was given.
>
> Thanks for your cooperation,
>
> Yours,
>
> Keith Martin

July 2, 2001

YENCO.COM is proud to announce the release of iEvents 1.1

iEvents is a powerful client-side tool for quickly creating custom calendar
websites that can then be easily uploaded to any internet server or iDisk. It is
ideal for individuals, schools, user groups, or any organization that wants to
share their calendar of events online. iEvents is compatible with Mac OS 9 and
the Mac OS X Classic Environment.

What's New:
- Auto save process updated to prevent data loss
- Fixed error with Build Site menu item
- Cut, copy and paste enabled in all fields
- Drag & Drop support added to all fields
- Header arrows now appeaar in site output
- Cell icons now appear in site output
- Improved Basic style

For more information please visit:
http://www.yenco.com/iEvents


Mike Yenco
YENCO.COM
http://www.yenco.com

This program was created with SuperCard.

Not so long ago Adthrawn said:

>You might want to add something about the UK Data Privacy Act, of 1984.
>
>They may claim that it is a US list, but it's always worth overwhelming them
>with legalese...
>
>If anybody in the US knows about IPR, Data Privacy and Generic Copyrighting,
>then it would be worth a few quotes to insert into a letter.

Hi Adthrawn - I sent the letter, and got a reply which did appear to
put it in a slightly different light... at least as regards the
intent, if not the actual publishing of addresses. I'll let you all
know if I get any more.

k
--

Okay, here's the way things have gone so far. It looks like it is
shaping up reasonably well. I'll let you know when I hear more.

k



== SENT FRIDAY JUNE 29TH ==========================================

Dear Sirs,

It has come to my attention that FAQchest is republishing entire
archived portions of email discussion mailing lists for free-form
searching via Web browsers.

One of those mailing lists at least, the SuperCard one, had made it
very clear to the list provider - and had that decision accepted -
that the publishing of any list content without masking the senders'
email addresses was unacceptable.

Your statement that "FAQchest can not be held liable of divulging
these E-mail addresses as these individuals willfully identify
themselves when they post their contribution to world wide
distributed discussion groups, boards or mailing lists" is NOT a
valid excuse for your actions. The SuperCard list is a private one
not ever openly published on Web sites or Usenet, and none of the
members wanted their addresses published in any way. The use of a
mailing list does not imply granting permission to republish email
addresses.

The SuperCard list used to be hosted on Allegiant Technologies
servers, but it was as private then as it is now. When IncWell
acquired the SuperCard intellectual property from Allegiant it also
acquired ownership of the SuperCard list. For a short while the list
was hosted by MacRevolution, but it was always owned by IncWell
during that time, and republishing permission would be required
before any part of it, from any period, is made publically available.

I see that initial links to the SuperCard archives have now been
removed. Unfortunately this still leaves the search results intact,
including email addresses. (For your information, it appears that
articles are still available via the 'Cached' links.)

You apparently allow only a few robots to index the archives you
currently store. But this assumes the total cooperation of all
'spiders'. In fact, many of the subscribers to the SuperCard mailing
list could write unstoppable address harvesting software for this
site during a lunch break.

Please understand, the real problem that the vast majority of the
SuperCard list members - both past and present - have with this
service is not with the fact of publishing the list contents as such.
It is the fact that their email addresses have been made publically
available in a manner that had been agreed between them and the list
owners would never happen.

The SuperCard list master (who has been listmaster through the
Allegiant and MacRevolution eras) has indicated that if email
addresses were not made available through your site then he would be
happy to have it available.

Your FAQchest service looks like it will become an extremely useful
resource, once the wrinkles have been ironed out. (And I would then
certainly consider mentioning it when compiling resource information
for MacUser's various features.) Perhaps you could contact the
SuperCard listmaster, Scott Simon, at <Scott@...>
about the email issue, and withdraw the SuperCard archives completely
from search access until you have perfected a method for masking any
email addresses?

Thanks for your cooperation,

Yours,

Keith Martin


+++++++++++++++++   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
       Keith Martin   Technical Editor, MacUser magazine
                                        http://www.macuser.co.uk/
       MacUser Help   mailto:help@...
               work   mailto:tech_ed@...
           personal > mailto:keith@...
             static   www.vortex.co.uk
         Mac-driven > http://www.vortex.uk.com/
       direct (work)  +44 (0)20 7907 6360
             mobile   0790 954 1365




== RECEIVED FRIDAY JUNE 29TH ======================================


Dear sir,

I am extremely concerned by this event and I'm working my best to help
on this matter.

The material has been removed from The FAQchest as of yesterday and the
batches to clean all the links have finished running, too.

I'm stunned to realize that Google has actually kept a cached version of
FAQchest's documents even though each page has a header tag formatted as
per Google's indication to not cache any document. Though pages are
still cached by Google.

I'm trying to get on hold of Google to have their database cleared from
all instances of the said material. I hope they will be responsive.

Beside this, I was currently writing a filter program to remove all
e-mail addresses from the FAQchest body.

If this is not sufficient I'll definitely shut down FAQchest. This was
only an experimental site, used mainly by me for my own researches. I
placed it only believing it might be useful to others ... until It
became way too popular to please everybody.

Please accept my sincere appologize.

Best regards,
Thierry de Villeneuve
thierryv@...
http://www.faqchest.com/




== SENT FRIDAY JUNE 29TH ======================================


Not so long ago Thierry de Villeneuve said:

>I'm trying to get on hold of Google to have their database cleared from
>all instances of the said material. I hope they will be responsive.
>
>Beside this, I was currently writing a filter program to remove all
>e-mail addresses from the FAQchest body.
>
>If this is not sufficient I'll definitely shut down FAQchest. This was
>only an experimental site, used mainly by me for my own researches. I
>placed it only believing it might be useful to others ... until It
>became way too popular to please everybody.

Thierry, please don't think the SuperCard list members want you to
shut FAQchest down. The issue is with the email addresses, not the
archives themselves. (Although you might want to approach the list
moderators of other lists first for future archive hostings.)

If you can remove the email addresses from archived mail (anywhere in
the mail, from header to body to .sigs) your service should be as
well received by the SuperCard list at least as it is badly received
right now! This should also render the Google caching issue
irrelevant - as long as they don't cache the old content with the
intact email addresses.
If you can guarantee this, I know of another technical mailing list
which might really appreciate the service.

So, I think the experiment has proved largely successful, at least
from what I've seen. The problem you hit was a related detail which
does need to be addressed, but we were impressed by the speed of
searches. I think there's potentially a real service you can offer.

BTW, I was perfectly serious about mentioning the service in MacUser
once you've sorted out the various issues. It *does* offer something
useful! :-)

Just one more thing: would you mind if I posted your reply (the one
I'm replying to now) to the SuperCard list? It does explain things
quite clearly, and it might serve to defuse the issue.

Keith



+++++++++++++++++   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
       Keith Martin   Technical Editor, MacUser magazine
                                        http://www.macuser.co.uk/
       MacUser Help   mailto:help@...
               work   mailto:tech_ed@...
           personal > mailto:keith@...
             static   www.vortex.co.uk
         Mac-driven > http://www.vortex.uk.com/
       direct (work)  +44 (0)20 7907 6360
             mobile   0790 954 1365




== RECEIVED MONDAY JULY 2ND ======================================


Subject: Re: Privacy complaint
Sender: Thierry.DE-VILLENEUVE@...
From: Thierry.DE-VILLENEUVE@...
To: keith/internet////////RFC-822/keith@...
Content-Type: multipart/Mixed; boundary="openmail-part-02a702e1-00000002"

Yes go ahead, my reply can be posted on the list. I appreciate a lot
your help.

My intent was to find material on the Hypertalk language. I do a lot of
Metacard development under UNIX. I have complete archives of the
metacard mailing list. I once seeked for material on the original Mac
version of Hypercard therefore added Supercard to my personal
knowledgebase, until the subscription went off by itself. So I'm not
even aware of what's going on with Supercard, and certainly not above
this recent event. I had the intent to contact the owner of Metacard and
look for Supercard but I got carried out in other projects. I feel sad
about it.

Additionally, I have several years of archives of the main Apple mailing
lists. I'm not putting this material online until I get approval for.

You may like to know that if FAQchest is all Linux based. All design and
maintenance has been done on an simple iBook (with Airport): GoLive,
BBEdit and Telnet.

Can you perhaps help me with this delemma, that if fact has held me back
from acting much earlier: Removing the complete e-mail address _or_
transforming it with "dot" and "at" as replacement of "." and "@".
FAQchest if referred for holding archives of messages from Larry Wall
and such others big names. If I remove all addresses the link back to
the originator of an imortant message will be lost for good. GEOcrawler
has decided to remove everything. I think I'll do the same.

Good night and thank you one more time.
Thierry de Villeneuve



== RECEIVED MONDAY JULY 2ND ======================================



Dear sir,

I've found out my Friday reply didn't make it through. I resend it. In
the meanwhile, I took over the week-end the decision to totally remove
all private e-mail addresses from The FAQchest, replacing them with this
"[PRIVACY PROTECTION]" text. Anyways, every knows the e-mail address of
Linus Torvals, Larry Wall and Mad Dog.

I'm adding another 60G drive to my system to make a snapshot of my
archives, in case of disaster during the correction process and I run my
filter program.

Thanks a lot for you - wise - help.

Best regards,
Thierry de Villeneuve
The FAQchest


==============================================================

--

+++++++++++++++++   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
       Keith Martin   Technical Editor, MacUser magazine
                                        http://www.macuser.co.uk/
       MacUser Help   mailto:help@...
               work   mailto:tech_ed@...
           personal > mailto:keith@...
             static   www.vortex.co.uk
         Mac-driven > http://www.vortex.uk.com/
       direct (work)  +44 (0)20 7907 6360
             mobile   0790 954 1365

And Google does indeed have many many pages cached for the SuperCard
list. Search, for example, for vortex + martin from FAQchest's Google
and dozens of hits are found. A good thing to remember about putting
Google's link on your web site - for these, they obviously cache, and
don't update the cache very frequently - says so in the fine print.

Adam

At 6:20 PM +0100 7/2/01, keith martin wrote:
>Okay, here's the way things have gone so far. It looks like it is
>shaping up reasonably well. I'll let you know when I hear more.
>
>k
>
>
>
>== SENT FRIDAY JUNE 29TH ==========================================
>
>Dear Sirs,
>
>It has come to my attention that FAQchest is republishing entire
>archived portions of email discussion mailing lists for free-form
>searching via Web browsers.
>
>One of those mailing lists at least, the SuperCard one, had made it
>very clear to the list provider - and had that decision accepted -
>that the publishing of any list content without masking the senders'
>email addresses was unacceptable.
>
>Your statement that "FAQchest can not be held liable of divulging
>these E-mail addresses as these individuals willfully identify
>themselves when they post their contribution to world wide
>distributed discussion groups, boards or mailing lists" is NOT a
>valid excuse for your actions. The SuperCard list is a private one
>not ever openly published on Web sites or Usenet, and none of the
>members wanted their addresses published in any way. The use of a
>mailing list does not imply granting permission to republish email
>addresses.
>
>The SuperCard list used to be hosted on Allegiant Technologies
>servers, but it was as private then as it is now. When IncWell
>acquired the SuperCard intellectual property from Allegiant it also
>acquired ownership of the SuperCard list. For a short while the list
>was hosted by MacRevolution, but it was always owned by IncWell
>during that time, and republishing permission would be required
>before any part of it, from any period, is made publically available.
>
>I see that initial links to the SuperCard archives have now been
>removed. Unfortunately this still leaves the search results intact,
>including email addresses. (For your information, it appears that
>articles are still available via the 'Cached' links.)
>
>You apparently allow only a few robots to index the archives you
>currently store. But this assumes the total cooperation of all
>'spiders'. In fact, many of the subscribers to the SuperCard mailing
>list could write unstoppable address harvesting software for this
>site during a lunch break.
>
>Please understand, the real problem that the vast majority of the
>SuperCard list members - both past and present - have with this
>service is not with the fact of publishing the list contents as such.
>It is the fact that their email addresses have been made publically
>available in a manner that had been agreed between them and the list
>owners would never happen.
>
>The SuperCard list master (who has been listmaster through the
>Allegiant and MacRevolution eras) has indicated that if email
>addresses were not made available through your site then he would be
>happy to have it available.
>
>Your FAQchest service looks like it will become an extremely useful
>resource, once the wrinkles have been ironed out. (And I would then
>certainly consider mentioning it when compiling resource information
>for MacUser's various features.) Perhaps you could contact the
>SuperCard listmaster, Scott Simon, at <Scott@...>
>about the email issue, and withdraw the SuperCard archives completely
>from search access until you have perfected a method for masking any
>email addresses?
>
>Thanks for your cooperation,
>
>Yours,
>
>Keith Martin
>
>
>+++++++++++++++++   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>       Keith Martin   Technical Editor, MacUser magazine
>                                        http://www.macuser.co.uk/
>       MacUser Help   mailto:help@...
>               work   mailto:tech_ed@...
>           personal > mailto:keith@...
>             static   www.vortex.co.uk
>         Mac-driven > http://www.vortex.uk.com/
>       direct (work)  +44 (0)20 7907 6360
>             mobile   0790 954 1365
>
>
>
>
>== RECEIVED FRIDAY JUNE 29TH ======================================
>
>
>Dear sir,
>
>I am extremely concerned by this event and I'm working my best to help
>on this matter.
>
>The material has been removed from The FAQchest as of yesterday and the
>batches to clean all the links have finished running, too.
>
>I'm stunned to realize that Google has actually kept a cached version of
>FAQchest's documents even though each page has a header tag formatted as
>per Google's indication to not cache any document. Though pages are
>still cached by Google.
>
>I'm trying to get on hold of Google to have their database cleared from
>all instances of the said material. I hope they will be responsive.
>
>Beside this, I was currently writing a filter program to remove all
>e-mail addresses from the FAQchest body.
>
>If this is not sufficient I'll definitely shut down FAQchest. This was
>only an experimental site, used mainly by me for my own researches. I
>placed it only believing it might be useful to others ... until It
>became way too popular to please everybody.
>
>Please accept my sincere appologize.
>
>Best regards,
>Thierry de Villeneuve
>thierryv@...
>http://www.faqchest.com/
>
>
>
>
>== SENT FRIDAY JUNE 29TH ======================================
>
>
>Not so long ago Thierry de Villeneuve said:
>
>>I'm trying to get on hold of Google to have their database cleared from
>>all instances of the said material. I hope they will be responsive.
>>
>>Beside this, I was currently writing a filter program to remove all
>>e-mail addresses from the FAQchest body.
>>
>>If this is not sufficient I'll definitely shut down FAQchest. This was
>>only an experimental site, used mainly by me for my own researches. I
>>placed it only believing it might be useful to others ... until It
>>became way too popular to please everybody.
>
>Thierry, please don't think the SuperCard list members want you to
>shut FAQchest down. The issue is with the email addresses, not the
>archives themselves. (Although you might want to approach the list
>moderators of other lists first for future archive hostings.)
>
>If you can remove the email addresses from archived mail (anywhere in
>the mail, from header to body to .sigs) your service should be as
>well received by the SuperCard list at least as it is badly received
>right now! This should also render the Google caching issue
>irrelevant - as long as they don't cache the old content with the
>intact email addresses.
>If you can guarantee this, I know of another technical mailing list
>which might really appreciate the service.
>
>So, I think the experiment has proved largely successful, at least
>from what I've seen. The problem you hit was a related detail which
>does need to be addressed, but we were impressed by the speed of
>searches. I think there's potentially a real service you can offer.
>
>BTW, I was perfectly serious about mentioning the service in MacUser
>once you've sorted out the various issues. It *does* offer something
>useful! :-)
>
>Just one more thing: would you mind if I posted your reply (the one
>I'm replying to now) to the SuperCard list? It does explain things
>quite clearly, and it might serve to defuse the issue.
>
>Keith
>
>
>
>+++++++++++++++++   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>       Keith Martin   Technical Editor, MacUser magazine
>                                        http://www.macuser.co.uk/
>       MacUser Help   mailto:help@...
>               work   mailto:tech_ed@...
>           personal > mailto:keith@...
>             static   www.vortex.co.uk
>         Mac-driven > http://www.vortex.uk.com/
>       direct (work)  +44 (0)20 7907 6360
>             mobile   0790 954 1365
>
>
>
>
>== RECEIVED MONDAY JULY 2ND ======================================
>
>
>Subject: Re: Privacy complaint
>Sender: Thierry.DE-VILLENEUVE@...
>From: Thierry.DE-VILLENEUVE@...
>To: keith/internet////////RFC-822/keith@...
>Content-Type: multipart/Mixed; boundary="openmail-part-02a702e1-00000002"
>
>Yes go ahead, my reply can be posted on the list. I appreciate a lot
>your help.
>
>My intent was to find material on the Hypertalk language. I do a lot of
>Metacard development under UNIX. I have complete archives of the
>metacard mailing list. I once seeked for material on the original Mac
>version of Hypercard therefore added Supercard to my personal
>knowledgebase, until the subscription went off by itself. So I'm not
>even aware of what's going on with Supercard, and certainly not above
>this recent event. I had the intent to contact the owner of Metacard and
>look for Supercard but I got carried out in other projects. I feel sad
>about it.
>
>Additionally, I have several years of archives of the main Apple mailing
>lists. I'm not putting this material online until I get approval for.
>
>You may like to know that if FAQchest is all Linux based. All design and
>maintenance has been done on an simple iBook (with Airport): GoLive,
>BBEdit and Telnet.
>
>Can you perhaps help me with this delemma, that if fact has held me back
>from acting much earlier: Removing the complete e-mail address _or_
>transforming it with "dot" and "at" as replacement of "." and "@".
>FAQchest if referred for holding archives of messages from Larry Wall
>and such others big names. If I remove all addresses the link back to
>the originator of an imortant message will be lost for good. GEOcrawler
>has decided to remove everything. I think I'll do the same.
>
>Good night and thank you one more time.
>Thierry de Villeneuve
>
>
>
>== RECEIVED MONDAY JULY 2ND ======================================
>
>
>
>Dear sir,
>
>I've found out my Friday reply didn't make it through. I resend it. In
>the meanwhile, I took over the week-end the decision to totally remove
>all private e-mail addresses from The FAQchest, replacing them with this
>"[PRIVACY PROTECTION]" text. Anyways, every knows the e-mail address of
>Linus Torvals, Larry Wall and Mad Dog.
>
>I'm adding another 60G drive to my system to make a snapshot of my
>archives, in case of disaster during the correction process and I run my
>filter program.
>
>Thanks a lot for you - wise - help.
>
>Best regards,
>Thierry de Villeneuve
>The FAQchest
>
>
>==============================================================
>
>--
>
>+++++++++++++++++   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>       Keith Martin   Technical Editor, MacUser magazine
>                                        http://www.macuser.co.uk/
>       MacUser Help   mailto:help@...
>               work   mailto:tech_ed@...
>           personal > mailto:keith@...
>             static   www.vortex.co.uk
>         Mac-driven > http://www.vortex.uk.com/
>       direct (work)  +44 (0)20 7907 6360
>             mobile   0790 954 1365
>
>To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to:
>SuperCard-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

This is to notify the List that a new project/app has been uploaded to the
File section of the List's Yahoo website.

The file (Image Manger) is a very ease-to-use graphic viewer, with a
multitude of exporting and management capabilities. As an application it
supports dropping folders, disks, and a variety of graphic files. I have
uploaded it as a project. If you run it as a project, all features are
supported except, of course, the 'drop' capacity. There are no buttons. All
navigation is by means of the arrow keys or slideshow.

For those of you who wish to convert this project into an application
capable of accepting drops from disks, folders & image files, I have
provided a configuration file for use with Standalone Maker.  Thanks to John
Johnston for the idea to include the configuration file.

As it is currently set, it builds a "Fat"development  application capable of
being edited. There are seven document types, so perhaps you wish to add
another or whatever.

As an application the scripting supports the Message Box, standard
control-key script accessing, and other standard script accessing. (see the
Tech notes if you download the file and wish to build an application.)

You are free, even encouraged, to make whatever changes you wish. The bulk
of the general scripting is in the project & menu scripts. I would
appreciate whatever feedback you have, and would ask to be informed of any
significant improvement you make (shouldn't be too hard).

Regards,

Bob Nagele
bob00@...

I'm running QPQ 2.1.2, Interaction (Terje Norderhaug's Forum, Chat,
CSS & XML preprocessor), and Flamethrower.cgi together to serve a
site built in Freeway 3.1. An all Mac project.

As far as I can tell so far, this mix works quite well, except that
Freeway-generated pages must inevitably contain inserted markup for
the XML or it is treated as text, and edits in Freeway must be
downloaded to Interaction's documents folder. During editing this can
get tedious, but if the Interaction editor is used to change the XML
instead, then Freeway is "unaware" of the changes and cannot be used
to make major changes in the layout without code repairs after the
fact.

Next, I want Flamethrower to pass a script-generated XML document
using entities defined in Interaction to Interaction (replacing dummy
pages in place as placeholders so Interaction knows they exist).
Interaction will serve these with style, entities, and it's internal
site data, methinks.

Has anyone done this, or is this getting entirely out of hand?

Adam

July 3, 2001

YENCO.COM is proud to announce the release of iEvents 1.2!

iEvents is a powerful client-side tool for quickly creating custom calendar
websites that can then be easily uploaded to any internet server or iDisk. It is
ideal for individuals, schools, user groups, or any organization that wants to
share their calendar of events online. iEvents is compatible with Mac OS 9 and
the Mac OS X Classic Environment.

What's New:
- File read/write process fixed to prevent data overwrite.
- Context-aware help system "?" buttons updated.

For more information please visit:
http://www.yenco.com/iEvents


Mike Yenco
YENCO.COM
http://www.yenco.com

This program was created with SuperCard.

So far, I have been entirely unsuccessful in getting a Flamethrower
project working via the Dispatcher. Take the Parameters example:

If I correct the URL in the default.html document supplied to point
at Flamethrower.cgi, and start Flamethrower with the Parameter Log
script it works, filling the supplied window with my data (the
redirect at the end of the Thanks window doesn't, but that's probably
a bad URL in the script document that I haven't caught).

If I then put the Dispatch Startup script and the Dispach folder with
the Parameter_Log script in it into the SC Pouch and restart Ft, the
Dispatcher project registry window shows a number,Parameter_Log (I
added the underscore, wondering if two words were acceptable), and if
I now go to the default.html form and submit it, it doesn't work,
presenting an Error modal dialog:

The attempt to load 'Accessing
URL:http://lap/cgi-bin/Flamethrower.cgi$Parameter_Log' failed.

Wha hoppen?

Adam

I'm having some problems running SC projects under OSX:

soundVolume doesn't work
play audio returns an error message
my standalone's finder icons have been replaced with the standard SC icon.

Are these known issues or am I doing something silly? Most pressing
for me is the need to set/get the soundVolume. If anyone has a work
around I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks in advance.

Jon Adams



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> I'm having some problems running SC projects under OSX:
>
> soundVolume doesn't work
> play audio returns an error message
> my standalone's finder icons have been replaced with the standard SC
icon.
>
> Are these known issues or am I doing something silly? Most pressing
> for me is the need to set/get the soundVolume. If anyone has a work
> around I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks in advance.
>

Sound volume most likely won't work under Classic. Classic apps don't
have access to much under the hood of OSX. As for the play audio
issue, well that's just weird. Is it a big audio file?

The finder icons being replaced with the standard SC icon may be a
corrupt Desktop Database. in Classic you hold down the option+command
keys at startup. No idea if it works in OSX.

-Chilton

Keith,

I'm glad it went in the direction it has...

A useful tool, let down by a few mistakes ;-)

My only concern - and this I think you outlined, is just the IPR/copyright
implications. Sure - who can really "own" a list? But in the end, it's still
courtesy to ask prior publishing them...

Ad.


on 3/7/01 9:27 am, SuperCard@yahoogroups.com at SuperCard@yahoogroups.com
wrote:

> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 18:20:26 +0100
> From: keith martin <keith@...>
> Subject: FAQchest archives - the current situation
>
> Okay, here's the way things have gone so far. It looks like it is
> shaping up reasonably well. I'll let you know when I hear more.
>
> k

> >I'm stunned to realize that Google has actually kept a cached version of
> >FAQchest's documents even though each page has a header tag formatted as
> >per Google's indication to not cache any document. Though pages are
> >still cached by Google.
> >
> >I'm trying to get on hold of Google to have their database cleared from
> >all instances of the said material. I hope they will be responsive.

Spider Repellent
After having my own issues with Google, they supplied the following link to
the robot exclusion standards.

http://www.robotstxt.org/wc/exclusion.html#robotstxt

An ounce of prevention...
DCS

Re:

>Message: 1
>   Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 10:21:52 -0300
>   From: "Adam C. Bell" <abell@...>
>Subject: Flamethrower/Interaction/PGP
>
>Next, I want Flamethrower to pass a script-generated XML document
>using entities defined in Interaction to Interaction (replacing dummy
>pages in place as placeholders so Interaction knows they exist).
>Interaction will serve these with style, entities, and it's internal
>site data, methinks.


Not that this is a direct assistance, of course, but in case anyone is
interested and might find it useful, here's an XML-related item I noticed
this on another list (MACSCRPT ??) back in March, and made note of it.

I have not tried it myself.

(Perhaps it might be possible for these people to extend their support to
from AppleScript, to Supertalk?)

-Joe

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 24 Mar 2001 10:58:53 -0800
From:    Mark Alldritt <alldritt@...>
Subject: ANNOUNCE: XML Tools 2.2


Hi Folks,

We have just released version 2.2 of our free XML Tools AppleScript
scripting addition.  XML Tools provides XML parsing and generation
services
to AppleScript.  Version 2.2 introduces native MacOS X support.

     http://www.latenightsw.com/freeware/XMLTools2/

Cheers
-Mark

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Alldritt                         Late Night Software Ltd.
Phone: 250-380-1725                   333 Moss Street
FAX:   250-383-3204                   Victoria, B.C.
WEB:   http://www.latenightsw.com/    CANADA  V8V-4M9


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Good news?

== RECEIVED 5TH JULY ==========================================

Dear Sirs,

After a couple of nights working on the issue, I can now announce that
as of yesterday no more e-mail addresses of private individuals are
available through The FAQchest mailing lists archiving system.

I have cleaned the complete 710,000 pages of the existing FAQchest
archive body of all addresses that do not match with the following
pattern:


'list|majordomo|almanac|mailman|-admin|-help|-owner|digest|abuse|request|subscri\
be|discuss'

I have reinstated the current SuperCard mailing list archives to its
original place. Google is currently re-indexing The FAQchest. The new
content, now stripped off all personal e-mail addresses, will replace
Google's previous index instance. Google's spider is instructed not to
cache the indexed documents.

I have not re-enabled the original links as they used to be. There will
be a new section on The FAQchest called "HyperTalk". I hope to be
authorized to publish online both the SuperCard and the Metacard
mailing list archive. I'll be working on this ASAP.

I hope this concludes last week's events. Again, I do apologize for
this. I should have worked the project steps in a different order.

I also want to thank all those that have been supportive and have
provided me with valuable advices.

Best regards,
Thierry de Villeneuve
thierryv@...
The FAQchest.

==============================================================

k

On 7/5/01 5:21 AM, "keith martin" <keith@...> wrote:

> Good news?
>
>SNIP
>
> I have reinstated the current SuperCard mailing list archives to its
> original place. Google is currently re-indexing The FAQchest.

Not good news until the re-idexing is done, I think.

I just went to the site and typed in my name. All the results (and there
were a lot) came up with my name followed by the e-mail address. Thankfully
all of them are OLD addresses, I didn't see any with my current address.
Following the links, I discovered that all the email addresses were removed
from the messages themselves.

Joe Koomen
joe@...

>> Random! ...Damn near killed 'em! <<

Hello all,
Well, I know people have wanted to post data from their SC projects for
some time now, and all of the things that did don't work that well
anymore. So What can be done?

Well, since I recently have had to create a Bot that could post to a CGI
I have tried a few solutions, including: Chilton's HTTP 1.7, Rinaldi's
GetHTTP 1.2, AppleScripting Internet Explorer and Apple Scripting URL
Access Scripting.
Here is a breakdown of the results:

Chilton's HTTP 1.7

Works but not repeatedly. I could not get more than 2 successful post in
a row.

GetHTTP 1.2

Well, this use to have a Post feature the new 1.2 version does not. I
guess the problems that where there in the first few versions where just
removed for this version, namely the Post function.

AppleScript IE:

This works very well, but I could not get it to write it out to a file.
Works great to display the results in the browser though.

AppleScript URL Access Scripting:

This is your answer. Use URL Access Scripting to do your Post. Not only
can you get the information, but you can display a progress bar as it
connects and retrieves the information.
Down side is you have to write it out to a file then open that file with
SC. NOTE: you should delete the file from withIn SC when doing this
repeatedly, it just makes it easier.

So what is the Syntax?

tell application "URL Access Scripting"
    activate
    try
    download "[[theURL]]" to file "[[theFileName]]" form data
"[[thePostData]]" with progress
    end try
    quit
end tell

Replace the items inside of the [[ ]]'s including the Brackets with the
important information.

The PostData should follow this format:

ElementName=Some+Value&NextElement=Another+Value

It is much slower then Chilton's HTTP 1.7 External, Approximately 700
ticks slower, but it works quite well.

Enjoy,
Bruce Martin
Illuminator Software
(570) 421-0670
bmartin@...
http://www.illuminatorsoftware.com

Hello,

Just curious. How will historians access full unedited archives?

John F. Richardson

First they will need to dig my Mac out of some dump site. open it up and
plug it in. Since it is a Mac I'm sure it will still run.
Then go through my files to find my sent messages files. Then they can
declare the day as Bruce Martin's Day and give everyone a day off. :)

Basically email addresses have no historical significance, IMHO.


On Thursday, July 5, 2001, at 11:51 AM, John Richardson wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Just curious. How will historians access full unedited archives?
>
> John F. Richardson
>
> To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to:
> SuperCard-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Bruce Martin
Illuminator Software
(570) 421-0670
bmartin@...
http://www.illuminatorsoftware.com

Thanks to Scott Simon, STRW 1.2 is now available at:

http://www.incwell.com/SuperCard/utilities.html

Hope this helps people who had problems with the Yahoo group file area.

--
Best regards

Didier Gross

My deepest apologies to all those on the list who attempted to use Ultimate
Calendar 1.3,

I made one of the most classic blunders of all. I hurried. I was heading for
vacation. Wife was anxious. I quickly made adjustments to handle
international dates as some had requested and in the process sped up some
other facets. But, time was at a premium and not all went fully tested. I
posted the project literally minutes before leaving. DO NOT DO THIS!!!!!!

I came back from vacation to find several notes indicating dissatisfaction.
(No, I don't take my computer on vacation, and no, I don't attempt to access
e-mail while on vacation.)

So, I have spend a couple of days not only adjusting the bloopers that crept
in last time but have also included a third calendar field that operates like
the first but goes beyond the MacOS date limits.

There are no XCmds or Xfncs required. The only requirement is the Font as per
the field style. I note that Stéphane Leys has a wonderful and fully
functioning international DateStrings XFnc and that I did for a time think of
using it. But, I wanted these fields to be able to be used via SuperCard Web
and so I wrote my own similar function in SuperTalk. My apologies to Stéphane
for leaving his unused XFcn in the resource section of the version 1.3. It
should have been removed.

I have also removed the need for the popUpMenu XFcn from the Xtend project.
It makes it a bit slower but again works on SuperCard Web and also implements
the sticky menu of current MacOS models.

The third field, the second in the project, was a script memory hog. As a
result, I implemented some handlers using userProperties. This was a neat
thing that I had not tried before. Maybe it is a new idea to you too. I can
now see another way to do this as well but will save it for another crunchy
time.

Ultimate Calendar 1.4 is now posted to the Yahoo site for all to see, use,
test, and rail at. To those who so kindly posted the earlier version on their
sites, I will send you copies to update ASAP.

Again my apologies

Doug Denby
SuperCard Loyalist

It might be of interest to know that you should not attempt to edit
the properties of a SC project on a remote computer via AppleTalk(IP)
using a local SC Project Editor.

While doing this a few moments ago (inserting cgiRegistry properties
for use with Dispatch in projects already uploaded to a remote
machine), SuperCard crashed, took the system (9.1) with it (back to
the box for a hard-wired restart), and in so doing broke Open
Transport permanently. OT thereafter returned an error (-3xxx) on all
subsequent reboots and I was off the air until I reloaded OT.

Not cool, and since it doesn't take long to download the file, fix
it, and upload it again, I won't try a remote edit again. In the next
version
of SC, however, someone might check into this because it is handy to
edit on the fly if you have a very good connection, and this *might*
not be an isolated incident.

Adam Bell

In order to have an SC ACGI present an XML document for preprocessing
by Interaction and service by PQP, I have to "expire" the old
document in
Interaction's Cache Database, so it will reload the new one. In a recent
exchange with Terje Noderhaug, he said:

	 I remembered wrong: There are no expire command exposed as an apple
	 event. However, it can be activated using a do script command with
	 the expire statement in LISP:

	 tell application "Interaction"
         	 do script "(expire #p\"home:documents;index.html\")"
	 end tell

	 This AppleScript should take care of expiring the home page HTML
	 document so that Interaction updates its cache database. You need
	 to change the path name depending on where the file is of course.

	 You should be able to write a similar script in Supercard/
	 Flamethrower if you are more familiar with their script syntax.

This can be done for XML 'entities' and CSS docs as well.

My painfully obvious question: How do I do this in SuperCard; that is
send a message like the "do script.... to Interaction"?

Adam