If you click on the alphabetic listings, it does, indeed, pull up a listing for
Sir Bruce.

Sincerely,

~~Nancy~~

--- In TBHeritage@yahoogroups.com, "tjcass7880" <tjcass7880@...> wrote:
>
> I checked that http://www.indiarace.com/AllStallions.aspx link but it
> doesn't mention Sir Bruce at all.
>
> ****
>
>
> --- In TBHeritage@yahoogroups.com, "amberflash" <amber@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello everyone
> >
> > I'm new to this list, but a bit of a pedigree geek so I hope to have
> found some likeminded people!
> >
> > I joined mainly because after some research have located what I think
> is the last of the tail male Castrel (1801) line, Castrel being the
> "other" son of Buzzard (1787, by Woodpecker, by Herod) - the more
> well-known son of Buzzard being Selim, whose sire line begat
> Tourbillon/Djebel.
> >
> > Sir Bruce is alive and still currently for stud in India but is very
> old (30!) and has no active sons, although there are some younger ones
> listed that haven't been gelded, the youngest being born in 2001.  His
> sire Everyday apparently was a top sire in India, but I can't find any
> other active sons.
> >
> > He's at Divyug Farms in Gurgaon, just outside of new Delhi.
> > http://www.indiarace.com/AllStallions.aspx
> >
> > I know that Byerley Turk lines are pretty rare now anyway, although
> there are some active ones in England and Australia (my favourite is the
> Melbourne Cup winner Dundaden who is headed to Royal Ascot), but I think
> all are via Selim/Tourbillon/Djebel.  So it seems to be one of the
> rarest lines still (barely) in existence.
> >
> > I wish there was a way to get a mare to him, or to get a hold of one
> of his sons!
> >
>

Hi everyone,
I am new in this community and in the first place I would like to thank to all
"responsible" for the great Thoroughbred Heritage website. I am a passionate
reader on this topic and also a collector of old thoroughbred photos.
I would like to ask - does anyone have a photo of Buccaneer in some good quality
and would be so kind to upload it here so I could print it for my collection,
double please? :)
Also, from curiosity - does anyone know of existence of a photograph of the Bend
Or's sire Doncaster? I have never seen a trace for any but the times of
photography had well matched with the lifetime of this stallion...
Thanks for any answer or reaction, and regards, Jarmila

Try www.sporthorse-data.com
They have a lot of old Thoroughbred pictures on-line.
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=114973 - Buccaneer
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=352062 - Doncaster

Kind Regards,

Ingeborg

Druid's Lodge Cattery
www.druids-lodge.com

"It's what you learn after you think you know it all, that makes a difference"
Richard Shrake, breeder Arabian Horses


   ----- Original Message -----
   From: jarmilamlcouskova
   To: TBHeritage@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 10:28 AM
   Subject: [TBHeritage] Buccaneer photo and Doncaster information


   Hi everyone,
   I am new in this community and in the first place I would like to thank to all
"responsible" for the great Thoroughbred Heritage website. I am a passionate
reader on this topic and also a collector of old thoroughbred photos.
   I would like to ask - does anyone have a photo of Buccaneer in some good
quality and would be so kind to upload it here so I could print it for my
collection, double please? :)
   Also, from curiosity - does anyone know of existence of a photograph of the
Bend Or's sire Doncaster? I have never seen a trace for any but the times of
photography had well matched with the lifetime of this stallion...
   Thanks for any answer or reaction, and regards, Jarmila



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Did you ever find info on this horse?
I am searching for his JC papers and any photos.
If we team up maybe we can find something :)

--- In TBHeritage@yahoogroups.com, "Sean M Labbe" <OFCSEAN@...> wrote:
>
> Looking for info on the following horses. Looking for show or race records if
any. This is the breeding of a Paint filly I am looking at. She is 3/4 TB
>
> Sire: Golden Lou JC # 531,387
> Sire: LIttle Mirado JC #8,607,293 by Malimirado and out of Little Moko
> AmyJo Labbe
> Westminster Stable
> ICQ# 58322339
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Have been asked to provide info on an equine painting titled" Anglesey (1883)".
The Thoroughbred Database lists: Anglesey (H) 1882 by Sterling out of SeaGull,
which appears likely to be the horse. However, have not been able to trace his
race record or any further info. One would think that if he warranted an oil
painting he must have won a good race (although it may be a case of owner's
vanity).  Any info will be appreciated.

There would have been no reason for an oil painting of the Anglesey foaled in
1882.  He ran three times, always unplaced, including a last of four and a last
of three.  He raced in the colours of Robert Peck, who trained Doncaster and
Bend Or (alias Tadcaster) for their Derby wins.  It's hard to imagine such a
notable horseman wanting a painting of a horse who was useless.

Given that the date of the painting is said to be 1883, it is just conceivable,
I suppose, that he looked particularly handsome and promising as a yearling. 
Could the image be that of a yearling?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
>
>
>  NSLM to hold popular
>
>Book Fair on
>
>Saturday, May 26, 2012
>
>from 10-5 p.m.
>
>
>
>The National Sporting Library and Museum will hold its second annual
>
>Book Fair Saturday, May 26, 2012, from 10-5 p.m. The popular event is free
>and open to the public. The Book Fair is a part of the 53rd Hunt Country
>Stable Tour.
>
>
>
>The Book Fair will offer book signings and scheduled brief lectures by
>five authors in the Library's lecture hall, the Founders' Room, and a
>duplicate book sale on the upper level to benefit the NSLM's Book
>Acquisition Fund.
>
>Books on equestrian topics, fly fishing and shooting are in the duplicate
>book sale.
>
>
>
>The authors are as follows:
>
>
>
>
>
>11:00 Kathryn Masson - Hunt Country Style; Stables: Beautiful Paddocks,
>Horse Barns, and Tack Rooms; Historic Houses of Virginia: Great Plantation
>Houses, Mansions, and Country Places.
>
>
>
>12:00 Patrick Smithwick - Flying Change: A Return to Steeplechasing;
>Racing My Father: Growing up with a Riding Legend.
>
>
>
>1:00 Elizabeth Letts with guest Harry de Leyer - The Eighty Dollar
>Champion: Snowman, the Horse that Inspired a Nation, debuted on the New
>York Times Hardcover Non-fiction Bestseller list.
>
>
>
>2:00 Anne Hambleton - Raja: Story of a Racehorse, a book for young readers
>11 & older.
>
>
>
>3:00 F. Turner Reuter, Jr. - Animal & Sporting Artists in America.
>
>
>
> Current NSLM Exhibits:
>
>
>
>Nic Fiddian-Green Still Water
>
>On view through May, Museum
>
>
>
>Scraps: British Sporting Drawings from the Paul Mellon Collection
>
>April 6 - June 30, 2012, Museum
>
>
>
>"Shooting Flying" in Literature and Art
>
>March 16 - June 30, 2012, Library
>
>
>
>Museum Hours:
>Wednesday-Saturday 10 a.m. to 4 p.m. and Sunday noon to 4 p.m.
>
>
>
>Library Hours:
>Tuesday-Friday 10 a.m. to 4 p.m. and Saturday 1 p.m. to 4 p.m
>
>
>The NSLM is closed on federal holidays.
>
>
>
>National Sporting Library and Museum
>
>102 The Plains Road
>Middleburg, Virginia 20117
>540-687-6542


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This column "Turfnotes"
<http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/20329214>   by "Whalebone" from
the Brisbane Queenslander of 25 Oct., 1879, followed British
horse-racing (must have been seriously delayed news.)  He mentions a
horse named

"Beaudesert  by  Stirling  out  of  Sea  Gull  is  the  property  of
Lord  Anglesey  (grandson  of  the  famous  Lord  whose  immortal  leg
lies  sleeping  under  its  stately  monument  on  the  field  of
Waterloo),  after  whose  seat  on  the  edge  of  Can  nock  Chase,  in
Staffordshire,  the  colt  is  christened."

Sea Gull's progeny as listed in Pedigreequery
<http://www.pedigreequery.com/progeny/sea+gull>  shows that Beaudesert
was a full brother of Anglesey, older by five years.  It's not that far
to assume that Lord Anglesey may have bred and raced Anglesey.

Hope this helps.




--- In TBHeritage@yahoogroups.com, "decio_charlie" <kbinney@...> wrote:
>
> Have been asked to provide info on an equine painting titled" Anglesey
(1883)". The Thoroughbred Database lists: Anglesey (H) 1882 by Sterling
out of SeaGull, which appears likely to be the horse. However, have not
been able to trace his race record or any further info. One would think
that if he warranted an oil painting he must have won a good race
(although it may be a case of owner's vanity).  Any info will be
appreciated.
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OK, so in the light of the Tadcaster/Bend Or revelation, I need to
rewrite my horses pedigree! I want to be sure of the parentage of these
horses. My horse has all of these "Bend Or" progeny in his pedigree. Do
I change them all to progeny of Tadcaster and keep the same dams, or is
it so screwed up that I have no hope of untangling the mess!?

Thanks for the help!

Here are the supposed Bend Or progeny:

Rosalys 1894
Laverno 1892
Rapallo 1894
DoReMe 1894
Golden Garter 1888
Martagon 1887
Ethel Agnes 1890
Radium 1903
Bona Vista 1889
Caithness 1888
Fairy Gold 1896
Ormonde 1883
Kendal 1883
Evergreen 1902
Anomaly (1896)

I think you should leave things just as they are.  The horse who won the Derby
and became the notable sire was one and the same.  Might as well keep calling
him Bend Or.  It's his antecedents, not his descendants which need changing, but
that hardly seems worth the bother at this point.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks Tony. However, that would be like identifying my "birth mother"
and leaving my own family tree with an adoptive mothers ancestors as my
own! If Tadcaster and Bend Or were switched as yearlings, and it was
Tadcaster in the breeding shed, not Bend Or, then Clemence may be the
"birth granddam" of the so called Bend Or progeny. If so, then I want
the ancestors of Tadcaster's dam, not the ancestors of Rouge Rose. As a
pedigree researcher and historical genealogist I want the correct
history as well as the pedigree.

It would only make sense to a purist!
Tracey

On 6/2/2012 5:23 PM, Tony Morris wrote:
>
> I think you should leave things just as they are. The horse who won
> the Derby and became the notable sire was one and the same. Might as
> well keep calling him Bend Or. It's his antecedents, not his
> descendants which need changing, but that hardly seems worth the
> bother at this point.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>


--
Our old history ends with the cross; our new history begins with
the resurrection.

        -- Watchman Nee



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If you're inclined to change something, leave these progeny as by Bend Or, as
Tony suggests, and just change Bend Or's dam to Clemence. 

--- On Sat, 6/2/12, hymnsinger@... <hymnsinger@...> wrote:

From: hymnsinger@... <hymnsinger@...>
Subject: Re: [TBHeritage]  Bend Or's (?) progeny
To: TBHeritage@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, June 2, 2012, 6:00 PM
















 









       Thanks Tony. However, that would be like identifying my "birth mother"

and leaving my own family tree with an adoptive mothers ancestors as my

own! If Tadcaster and Bend Or were switched as yearlings, and it was

Tadcaster in the breeding shed, not Bend Or, then Clemence may be the

"birth granddam" of the so called Bend Or progeny. If so, then I want

the ancestors of Tadcaster's dam, not the ancestors of Rouge Rose. As a

pedigree researcher and historical genealogist I want the correct

history as well as the pedigree.



It would only make sense to a purist!

Tracey



On 6/2/2012 5:23 PM, Tony Morris wrote:

>

> I think you should leave things just as they are. The horse who won

> the Derby and became the notable sire was one and the same. Might as

> well keep calling him Bend Or. It's his antecedents, not his

> descendants which need changing, but that hardly seems worth the

> bother at this point.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>



--

Our old history ends with the cross; our new history begins with

the resurrection.



-- Watchman Nee



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi all--

Just a few lines to introduce myself. My name is Patricia Wren and I reside in
far northern California. I don't own any thoroughbreds but have been a fan for
many years, and am a pedigree nut partially from having Arabians (the old
fashioned real horses, not the current show-ring Barbie Dolls) for several
decades, and I also have Saluki hounds. I used to ride slow ex-racers for a
hunter-jumper trainer... and am an avid racing fan. Having recently retired,
sort of, I'll now have more time to devote to pedigrees and breed history.
Looking forward to some interesting chat.

Patricia

Welcome, Patricia!  I usually "lurk," but learn a lot.  Here's hoping you have a
great time here!

Cheers!
Vicky Burnham

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: scimitar_saluki
   To: TBHeritage@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 2:11 PM
   Subject: [TBHeritage] New Member




   Hi all--

   Just a few lines to introduce myself. My name is Patricia Wren and I reside in
far northern California. I don't own any thoroughbreds but have been a fan for
many years, and am a pedigree nut partially from having Arabians (the old
fashioned real horses, not the current show-ring Barbie Dolls) for several
decades, and I also have Saluki hounds. I used to ride slow ex-racers for a
hunter-jumper trainer... and am an avid racing fan. Having recently retired,
sort of, I'll now have more time to devote to pedigrees and breed history.
Looking forward to some interesting chat.

   Patricia





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I too am a lurk and learn person who is generally in awe of the indepth
knowledge of many on the board.

Welcome!

April


I always liked Salukis.



________________________________
From: Vicky Burnham <tbbreeder@...>
To: TBHeritage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 9:09 AM
Subject: Re: [TBHeritage] New Member


 
Welcome, Patricia! I usually "lurk," but learn a lot. Here's hoping you have a
great time here!

Cheers!
Vicky Burnham

----- Original Message -----
From: scimitar_saluki
To: TBHeritage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 2:11 PM
Subject: [TBHeritage] New Member

Hi all--

Just a few lines to introduce myself. My name is Patricia Wren and I reside in
far northern California. I don't own any thoroughbreds but have been a fan for
many years, and am a pedigree nut partially from having Arabians (the old
fashioned real horses, not the current show-ring Barbie Dolls) for several
decades, and I also have Saluki hounds. I used to ride slow ex-racers for a
hunter-jumper trainer... and am an avid racing fan. Having recently retired,
sort of, I'll now have more time to devote to pedigrees and breed history.
Looking forward to some interesting chat.

Patricia

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I am also a sometimes lurker, we can't all have every question or answer!!!
 
Patricia
 
 
 


________________________________
From: Vicky Burnham <tbbreeder@...>
To: TBHeritage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 7:09 AM
Subject: Re: [TBHeritage] New Member


 
Welcome, Patricia! I usually "lurk," but learn a lot. Here's hoping you have a
great time here!

Cheers!
Vicky Burnham

----- Original Message -----
From: scimitar_saluki
To: TBHeritage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 2:11 PM
Subject: [TBHeritage] New Member

Hi all--

Just a few lines to introduce myself. My name is Patricia Wren and I reside in
far northern California. I don't own any thoroughbreds but have been a fan for
many years, and am a pedigree nut partially from having Arabians (the old
fashioned real horses, not the current show-ring Barbie Dolls) for several
decades, and I also have Saluki hounds. I used to ride slow ex-racers for a
hunter-jumper trainer... and am an avid racing fan. Having recently retired,
sort of, I'll now have more time to devote to pedigrees and breed history.
Looking forward to some interesting chat.

Patricia

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"Lurk and learn" is a good description.
 
I am looking forward to going back through the archived posts --- though that
may be a bit daunting. I'll probably want to jump in and answer or ask, and the
later posts will have done that for me!!
 
Salukis--- we show and race and lure course ours, and one has a Rally Novice
title in Obedience and two have Canine Good Citizen certificates... we enjoy
them a lot and y'know, they're a lot cheaper to live with and compete with than
horses!!
 
Yes I still have a small handful of horses, but they are all retirees and
"pasture ornaments" at this point. Not breeding any more though a friend has one
of my mares and is still breeding from her. She'll probably come home soon, as
she is now 20, but she'll stay in production as long as possible... she is a
sort of walking antique for her breed. Her maternal grandsire was foaled in 1944
and sired her dam when he was 30! {lived to 38}  
 
Thanks for your greeting.
 
Patricia
 
 

________________________________
From: april <april_mc@...>
To: "TBHeritage@yahoogroups.com" <TBHeritage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: [TBHeritage] New Member


 


I too am a lurk and learn person who is generally in awe of the indepth
knowledge of many on the board.

Welcome!

April

I always liked Salukis.

________________________________
From: Vicky Burnham <tbbreeder@...>
To: TBHeritage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 9:09 AM
Subject: Re: [TBHeritage] New Member

 
Welcome, Patricia! I usually "lurk," but learn a lot. Here's hoping you have a
great time here!

Cheers!
Vicky Burnham

----- Original Message -----
From: scimitar_saluki
To: TBHeritage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 2:11 PM
Subject: [TBHeritage] New Member

Hi all--

Just a few lines to introduce myself. My name is Patricia Wren and I reside in
far northern California. I don't own any thoroughbreds but have been a fan for
many years, and am a pedigree nut partially from having Arabians (the old
fashioned real horses, not the current show-ring Barbie Dolls) for several
decades, and I also have Saluki hounds. I used to ride slow ex-racers for a
hunter-jumper trainer... and am an avid racing fan. Having recently retired,
sort of, I'll now have more time to devote to pedigrees and breed history.
Looking forward to some interesting chat.

Patricia

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Welcome, Patricia.

You might be interested to know that one of the Marshall imports, the mare
called Slugey, was named after the Saluki breed of dogs. I used to speculate
that her name might be a corruption of the Arabian strain-name of Seglawi (or
however one cares to spell it). While I was on the right track in looking for an
Arabic word, I mistook the phonetics and picked the wrong one.

Sorry I can't recall the source of this information, but I'm sure it was in one
of the old books I have downloaded. If I run across it again, I'll post the
reference.

Sandy

--- In TBHeritage@yahoogroups.com, "scimitar_saluki" <scimitar_saluki@...>
wrote:
>
>
> Hi all--
>
> Just a few lines to introduce myself. My name is Patricia Wren and I reside in
far northern California. I don't own any thoroughbreds but have been a fan for
many years, and am a pedigree nut partially from having Arabians (the old
fashioned real horses, not the current show-ring Barbie Dolls) for several
decades, and I also have Saluki hounds. I used to ride slow ex-racers for a
hunter-jumper trainer... and am an avid racing fan. Having recently retired,
sort of, I'll now have more time to devote to pedigrees and breed history.
Looking forward to some interesting chat.
>
> Patricia
>

Hi Sandy---
 
Thanks for the info. Seems to me I've noted that somewhere in the past... when
dealing with names in other languages than English there can be some phonetic
shifting in spelling and sometimes it can be a great clue, and other times a
frustration!!!
 
Well, here's hoping "Slugey" was as fast as her namesake!
 
Would definitely appreciate the info if you run across it.
 
Patricia
PS Seglawi is how I learned it--- but Saklawi isn't too far off.
 
 

________________________________
From: Sandy <racefansan@...>
To: TBHeritage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 8:54 PM
Subject: [TBHeritage] Re: New Member


 
Welcome, Patricia.

You might be interested to know that one of the Marshall imports, the mare
called Slugey, was named after the Saluki breed of dogs. I used to speculate
that her name might be a corruption of the Arabian strain-name of Seglawi (or
however one cares to spell it). While I was on the right track in looking for an
Arabic word, I mistook the phonetics and picked the wrong one.

Sorry I can't recall the source of this information, but I'm sure it was in one
of the old books I have downloaded. If I run across it again, I'll post the
reference.

Sandy

--- In TBHeritage@yahoogroups.com, "scimitar_saluki" <scimitar_saluki@...>
wrote:
>
>
> Hi all--
>
> Just a few lines to introduce myself. My name is Patricia Wren and I reside in
far northern California. I don't own any thoroughbreds but have been a fan for
many years, and am a pedigree nut partially from having Arabians (the old
fashioned real horses, not the current show-ring Barbie Dolls) for several
decades, and I also have Saluki hounds. I used to ride slow ex-racers for a
hunter-jumper trainer... and am an avid racing fan. Having recently retired,
sort of, I'll now have more time to devote to pedigrees and breed history.
Looking forward to some interesting chat.
>
> Patricia
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I was hoping to obtain a description or definition of some old-fashioned
terms used in describing horses. In many of the old stallion ads the
term 'boney' crops up frequently: this is applied in descriptions of the
body and the head.  I also ran across the following:  "They had a boney
head, with sharp ears, and were close, but /pointed/ horses." What is
meant by 'pointed?'

Thank you for your help,

Betsy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I looked her up last night and noted a couple of interesting things.
 
First is the name of her imported-in-utero foal, Greyhound (a dead giveaway!).
The Saluki is the ancestral greyhound, going back as the same recognizable breed
since his portayal on the tomb of King Tut. The actual Saluki (or sometimes
spelled Saluqi) is a native of the Arabian Peninsula and its very nearby areas,
lapping up into Turkey on the north and of course including Iraq (Persia) and
Egypt. There are a number of "first-cousin" breeds, which are essentially the
product of native breeds crossed with the Saluki for centuries in their nearby
or farther-out localized areas. So we have the Afghan Hound in Afghanistan, the
Tazi in several countries including even up into parts of Russia; and to the
west, in northern Africa, we have the SLOUGHI which is pronounced "Sloo-gey" ---
this hound is typically taller and heavier than the Saluki (which must hunt over
desert sands and rough country; usually gazelles and hares), and the ones I am
most familiar
  with have a more aggressive temperament as well. The English Greyhound (the
familar one to us in North America and Europe) has been a distinct breed for a
long time but is a derivative in part of the Saluki, which was the earliest.
 
This brings in the source location of the mare Slugey, foaled c.1690: "Barbary"
which is the area of Tunisia and nearby North Africa, the part bordering on the
southern Mediterranean. And guess what... that's the home territory of the
Sloughi hound...
 
It's fun to find little pieces of a puzzle and put them together...
 
HRTV is running a little series of breed films and one of the featured breeds is
the Akhal-Teke --- wow, they had to have had some historic influences on the
early Thoroughbred, whatever they [the A-T] were known as back in the day.
 
 
Patricia
 


________________________________
From: Sandy <racefansan@...>
To: TBHeritage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 8:54 PM
Subject: [TBHeritage] Re: New Member


 
Welcome, Patricia.

You might be interested to know that one of the Marshall imports, the mare
called Slugey, was named after the Saluki breed of dogs. I used to speculate
that her name might be a corruption of the Arabian strain-name of Seglawi (or
however one cares to spell it). While I was on the right track in looking for an
Arabic word, I mistook the phonetics and picked the wrong one.

Sorry I can't recall the source of this information, but I'm sure it was in one
of the old books I have downloaded. If I run across it again, I'll post the
reference.

Sandy

--- In mailto:TBHeritage%40yahoogroups.com, "scimitar_saluki"
<scimitar_saluki@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hi all--
>
> Just a few lines to introduce myself. My name is Patricia Wren and I reside in
far northern California. I don't own any thoroughbreds but have been a fan for
many years, and am a pedigree nut partially from having Arabians (the old
fashioned real horses, not the current show-ring Barbie Dolls) for several
decades, and I also have Saluki hounds. I used to ride slow ex-racers for a
hunter-jumper trainer... and am an avid racing fan. Having recently retired,
sort of, I'll now have more time to devote to pedigrees and breed history.
Looking forward to some interesting chat.
>
> Patricia
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 
 
I'd say the "boney" meant the heads were lean and not meaty, perhaps with a
slightly convex profile?
 
Sounds like they meant that the ears were close-set (at the base) but pointed
upward rather than lopping?
 
Just guessing... based on trying to picture in my head what that description
might look like. There are horses in India ---part-Arabs and probably have some
TB as well as other nearby native breeds in them? --- which have very peculiarly
set ears, very high on the skull, close together at the base, and the tips curve
into each other, sometimes look like they touch.
 
Anyone have a better translation? I do this from my office (not fully retired
YET!) and my old reference stuff is mostly in storage at the moment. So I work
off of memory or what I can suss out on the web.
 
 
Patricia
 


________________________________
From: Alan Curler <lilotter@...>
To: tbheritage@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 6:54 AM
Subject: [TBHeritage] terminology


 
I was hoping to obtain a description or definition of some old-fashioned
terms used in describing horses. In many of the old stallion ads the
term 'boney' crops up frequently: this is applied in descriptions of the
body and the head. I also ran across the following: "They had a boney
head, with sharp ears, and were close, but /pointed/ horses." What is
meant by 'pointed?'

Thank you for your help,

Betsy

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"They had a boney
head, with sharp ears, and were close, but /pointed/ horses."

In the Arab horse world today, horses with the desired head refinement are said
to exhibit "dryness."
(as here-
http://www.agriscience.msu.edu/3000/3180/3185/3185C/3185carabguide.pdf)

I would expect boney means the same.

Purely a guess, but I wonder if the ears "pointed horses" meant they pointed
forward (in the direction they were to move). "The ears were close, but pointed
forward"?

And my final offering - a link to a pictures of the amazing ears of Indian
Marwari horses that Patricia references -
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_UR6_hWgyQjQ/SwJadwZifHI/AAAAAAAABA8/-gMZyYgIseY/s1600/\
Marwari_horse.JPG

Erin

Sounds like we are on pretty much the same page.
 
The Arabian judging PDF was interesting, and a lot more horseman-like than what
we see in the Arabian show ring today. There may be hope yet... though it's a
scholarly piece and not adhered to much in the show ring in recent years.
 
I still look at the conformation shots of Thoroughbreds and try to determine
which of them looks most like what I'd want, and since I value structure over
type I really look more critically at the prettier horses, as so often they make
their way by looks rather than structural correctness. But I still love the
pretty 'uns too... they just need to prove themselves a bit more I guess.
 
Yes, it was the Marwari horses I was referring to. Just didn't remember the
name.
 
"Dryness" and "meatiness" are direct opposites. I tend to associate dry heads
with more intelligence and probably more athletic ability, while a meaty-headed
horse I might expect to be more stubborn, and slower in its responses when
ridden. The dryness and meatiness have to do with heredity, not intelligence...
but one accompanies the other, more often than not in my experience and
observation.
 
Patricia
 
 

________________________________
From: Erin Thompson <ivy7496@...>
To: "TBHeritage@yahoogroups.com" <TBHeritage@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 7:26 AM
Subject: [TBHeritage] Re: terminology


 
"They had a boney
head, with sharp ears, and were close, but /pointed/ horses."

In the Arab horse world today, horses with the desired head refinement are said
to exhibit "dryness."
(as here-
http://www.agriscience.msu.edu/3000/3180/3185/3185C/3185carabguide.pdf)

I would expect boney means the same.

Purely a guess, but I wonder if the ears "pointed horses" meant they pointed
forward (in the direction they were to move). "The ears were close, but pointed
forward"?

And my final offering - a link to a pictures of the amazing ears of Indian
Marwari horses that Patricia references -
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_UR6_hWgyQjQ/SwJadwZifHI/AAAAAAAABA8/-gMZyYgIseY/s1600/\
Marwari_horse.JPG

Erin




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks to all of you that have answered my query. I think the word
'pointy'  has to do with some aspect of conformation (of the body), not
the ears. Because the meanings and usage of words can change over time
and this was written in 1847, I was hoping someone here might have seen
these words used "back in the day." Also,  I do not have a background in
racing, so, again, these may be words more familiar to those doing
research in that field.

Betsy
p.s. I am on digest and may have missed something posted today (won't
see it till tomorrow).

 
VALERIE,
 
CAN YOU SHARE MORE ON THE LIVING LEGACY OF YOUR SIRE
"TARQUIN SILK" THANKS FOR YOUR ASSISTANCE!!
 
 
 
 
Valerie wrote:
 
From Valerie in South Australia,

Hi there, I have some Herod bloodlines, and Teddy etc. in my Stallions both are
Thoroughbred Studbook Horses, you should be able to find their bloodlines
easily, one is named "Red Galleon" by Semitime, by Semipalatinsk, his Dams name
was Redlua, by Rough'n'Tumble, by Better Boy, by Djebel etc.
The other Stallions name is "Tarquin Silk" by Steady Eddy, by Go Dancer, by
Native Dancer, Tarquins Dam was "Eureka Girl" by Loving Jim, by Jim French, by
Graustark, by Ribot. these two horses bloodlines are well known.
I have 6 Thoroughbred broodmares also, and a Mare who is by a Stallion named
"Deveraja" who is by Sir Tristam. The mare who is by Deveraja is named "Chiquita
Sunrise" her Dam was Due Respect, by Without Fear etc.


Valerie.


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I was shocked to find this mare NOT listed anywhere in the TB Pedigree Query
site.  I KNEW she existed, so I did some quick searching in my books and found
her vol. 36 part one, page 1047 of the General Stud Book.  Unfortunately, the
GSB doesn't tell me anything about her racing and produce record.  I think she
bred a few good horses, but I cannot cudgel my brains enough to recall who - can
anyone help? Thank you.
  - Julie LaBomascus

I have both parts 1 and I'm going to sell. Part 1 is an original first
edition, part 2 looks like the 1993 reprint. I'm going to sell them in
addition to the rest of my Bloodstock books.Please e-mail me privately
for a list if interested, Greg

I found two fillies listed here:

http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=10072672

I added them to Pedigreequery just now (so they won't show up yet).

Sumiko

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 7:00 PM, Julie <blinkbonny@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> I was shocked to find this mare NOT listed anywhere in the TB Pedigree
> Query site. I KNEW she existed, so I did some quick searching in my books
> and found her vol. 36 part one, page 1047 of the General Stud Book.
> Unfortunately, the GSB doesn't tell me anything about her racing and
> produce record. I think she bred a few good horses, but I cannot cudgel my
> brains enough to recall who - can anyone help? Thank you.
> - Julie LaBomascus
>
>
>


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Keylock's Dams of Winners of Flat Races

NICAWAY Br 1963 by Honeyway ex Dominica IV by Deux Pour Cent.

ARABIAN SEA Ch.g. 1973 by Ardoon 1982   5 races 2 wins     7, 9 furlongs
Sterling 1,712.
                                                        1984  14    "     3  "
8,9,10  "           "         3,773
                                                        1985    7    "     -
12.2     "           "           186  placed 2.

Keith Binney

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