Exactly.

A NOTE TO ALL THOSE SHARKS OUT THERE WHO SMELL BLOOD IN THE WATER:

Those of us who have been burned by this aren't exactly thrilled
with the prospect of hitching our wagon to another no-name company
that we don't know who promises to solve all of our problems and
make everything better.  We fell for that pitch once before but
never again.

If your company or service is as dependable, affordable, ethical and
financially stable as you say it is, we will find you.

Thank you.

--- In TheAberdeenKid@yahoogroups.com, "scientia_veritas"
<professor_smartypants@y...> wrote:
> Yes,
>
> He didn't even give a toll-free number.
>
> But, in case you missed it, his name is Andrew and he's had 17
years
> in "the business" - which could as easily mean phone sex, for 17
years.
>
> --- In TheAberdeenKid@yahoogroups.com, "devindreadsdavis"
<Colin@s...>
> wrote:
> > Repeating your advertisement over and over again is not going to
> > work, pal.  In fact, it reminds me of the sleazeball salesman
that
> > got us into this mess in the first place.  Please go away.
> >
> >
> > --- In TheAberdeenKid@yahoogroups.com, "almalm99" <almalm@h...>
> > wrote:
> > > Please let your group know that I may be able to help you with
> > your
> > > telecom needs during this crisis.  My name is Andrew.  I'm a
> > telecom
> > > consultant that has been in the business for 17 years.  I can
be
> > > contacted at 212-897-8414 or email me at amarks@n...
> > >
> > > Sincerely,
> > > Andrew
> > >
> > > --- In TheAberdeenKid@yahoogroups.com, "devindreadsdavis"
> > > <Colin@s...> wrote:
> > > > We signed up for the long-distance, cell-phone, T1 service
in
> > > April,
> > > > 2003.  In April, 2004, we upgraded to the full CCS service
where
> > we
> > > > got all the phones, voicemail, incoming 800-numbers, etc.
In
> > June,
> > > > we moved to a new location and had the matrix box and phones
> > moved
> > > > and reinstalled, however the T1 was delayed a month - so
we've
> > had
> > > > to have regular copper phone lines installed and activated,
DSL
> > > > service activated and all of our old numbers (plus the new
800-
> > > > numbers) forwarded to the new local numbers assigned to the
new
> > > > copper lines.  The T1 line has since been installed but no
one
> > from
> > > > Norvergence has been out to connect it to the Matrix box.
> > > >
> > > > Needless-to-say, this whole ordeal has been a complete
mess.  We
> > > > have stopped paying Norvergence for the monthly circuit and
> > other
> > > > charges.  And we have stopped paying our monthly lease
charge to
> > > > Popular Leasing.  I'm planning on converting our cell-
phones,
> > > > local/long-distance and DSL to our name tomorrow.  Has
anyone
> > else
> > > > been able to do this?  Any problems?
> > > >
> > > > I'm glad this group has been started.  I feel completely in
the
> > > dark
> > > > here.

Repeating your advertisement over and over again is not going to
work, pal.  In fact, it reminds me of the sleazeball salesman that
got us into this mess in the first place.  Please go away.


--- In TheAberdeenKid@yahoogroups.com, "almalm99" <almalm@h...>
wrote:
> Please let your group know that I may be able to help you with
your
> telecom needs during this crisis.  My name is Andrew.  I'm a
telecom
> consultant that has been in the business for 17 years.  I can be
> contacted at 212-897-8414 or email me at amarks@n...
>
> Sincerely,
> Andrew
>
> --- In TheAberdeenKid@yahoogroups.com, "devindreadsdavis"
> <Colin@s...> wrote:
> > We signed up for the long-distance, cell-phone, T1 service in
> April,
> > 2003.  In April, 2004, we upgraded to the full CCS service where
we
> > got all the phones, voicemail, incoming 800-numbers, etc.  In
June,
> > we moved to a new location and had the matrix box and phones
moved
> > and reinstalled, however the T1 was delayed a month - so we've
had
> > to have regular copper phone lines installed and activated, DSL
> > service activated and all of our old numbers (plus the new 800-
> > numbers) forwarded to the new local numbers assigned to the new
> > copper lines.  The T1 line has since been installed but no one
from
> > Norvergence has been out to connect it to the Matrix box.
> >
> > Needless-to-say, this whole ordeal has been a complete mess.  We
> > have stopped paying Norvergence for the monthly circuit and
other
> > charges.  And we have stopped paying our monthly lease charge to
> > Popular Leasing.  I'm planning on converting our cell-phones,
> > local/long-distance and DSL to our name tomorrow.  Has anyone
else
> > been able to do this?  Any problems?
> >
> > I'm glad this group has been started.  I feel completely in the
> dark
> > here.

----- Original Message -----

From: ashley chadowitz

To: TheAberdeenKid@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 2:41 PM

Subject: RE: [TheAberdeenKid] NorVergence

Here is what they said today.

 

As I only use Norvergence for cellular and OUTGOING phone service, I am going to hold transferring my long distance until I cannot make any more calls.  I have one line already that is not under norvergence, so I can still make outgoing calls if needed.  My reasoning for doing this is that I will fulfill my part of the contract as long as Norvergence keeps up their end. 

 

Ashley

 

---

From: Sarabeth Sealock DC-98 [mailto:SealockS@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 1:20 PM
To: TheAberdeenKid@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [TheAberdeenKid] NorVergence

 

There is nothing more important that active phone service for your business. If your customer gets a busy signal, chances are they will move on to the next vendor in the phone book. As a manager assuming services of defunct non-LEC accounts, I would suggest contacting the incumbent phone company and obtaining a transfer of services immediately. I would worry about the contracts and banks later. You won't be in business if you don't have phone service and there is no indication on when the plug may be pulled-don't let it come as a surprise because the transfer wait will be a long one. General PUC requirements are 1 month of active service to allow you to change carriers. I would do this with all other services assumed by Norvergence as well.

You can't avoid the collection process and for years you will be hounded as the charges are passed from agency to agency. Keep thorough notes and save them for backup when you dispute your payments-include the dates & the who, what, when, where, why & how's of all verbal & written transactions. The ability to provide service is implied in the contract and no matter what the terms left to fulfill may be, you will have a leg to stand on when confronted by your creditors if you do your due dilligence. Remain steadfast with the collection agencts/lawyers that will come to get what scraps of your $$ they think they can bully out of you.

I would also write a generic letter outlining your plight & file a complaint with the following:
Your state attorney general
The attorney general of NJ
The Secret Service (they have a telecommunication branch)
The Utility commission of your state & the state of NJ
The FTC
The FCC
I would also find out what branch regulates the banking industry in your state & the state of NJ as well as the Federal Reserve.


Not a lawyer but an experienced telecom manager & auditor that has been through this before.

I am curious...is there web banking for any of the banks & do they have a formal statement at their site?
I

Sarabeth Sealock
Telecommunication Manager

                                                                        July 8, 2004

Dear Norvergence Customer:

We are writing to inform you that Norvergence is proactively responding to an
involuntary bankruptcy petition filed against the company under chapter 11 of
the Bankruptcy Code last week.  Provided the company obtains the necessary financing,
the chapter 11 process will allow the company to continue operating in the ordinary
course of business and to continue to operate its telecommunications systems
and service its customers.

To date, we are maintaining service to our customers.  Our operating systems are
intact and key personnel and engineers have been retained.

Norvergence has obtained an agreement in principle to receive up to $2.8 million
in post petition financing.  We have secured this financing from a number of
banks that are working with the company through a steering committee.  This
financing and further financing if secured, will allow the company to maintain
daily operations and continued and uninterrupted service to its customers, which
is our primary concern.

With this is mind, we have initiated an additional service hot-line for any
customer service issues you may experience during the course of the next few
weeks.  In the event you should need to speak to a customer service representative,
please call 888-735-7544.

We look forward to our continuing business relationship.

Respectfully,

Norvergence Client Management Team

There is nothing more important that active phone service for your business. If
your customer gets a busy signal, chances are they will move on to the next
vendor in the phone book. As a manager assuming services of defunct non-LEC
accounts, I would suggest contacting the incumbent phone company and obtaining a
transfer of services immediately. I would worry about the contracts and banks
later. You won't be in business if you don't have phone service and there is no
indication on when the plug may be pulled-don't let it come as a surprise
because the transfer wait will be a long one. General PUC requirements are 1
month of active service to allow you to change carriers. I would do this with
all other services assumed by Norvergence as well.

You can't avoid the collection process and for years you will be hounded as the
charges are passed from agency to agency. Keep thorough notes and save them for
backup when you dispute your payments-include the dates & the who, what, when,
where, why & how's of all verbal & written transactions. The ability to provide
service is implied in the contract and no matter what the terms left to fulfill
may be, you will have a leg to stand on when confronted by your creditors if you
do your due dilligence. Remain steadfast with the collection agencts/lawyers
that will come to get what scraps of your $$ they think they can bully out of
you.

I would also write a generic letter outlining your plight & file a complaint
with the following:
Your state attorney general
The attorney general of NJ
The Secret Service (they have a telecommunication branch)
The Utility commission of your state & the state of NJ
The FTC
The FCC
I would also find out what branch regulates the banking industry in your state &
the state of NJ as well as the Federal Reserve.


Not a lawyer but an experienced telecom manager & auditor that has been through
this before.

I am curious...is there web banking for any of the banks & do they have a formal
statement at their site?
I

Sarabeth Sealock
Telecommunication Manager

I just got off the phone with Sprint. It seems that their customer
service reps have a script to answer NorVergence questions. Anyhow,
they say that there are legalities involved and that they cannot make
any changes to the customers accounts at this time. I asked if that
meant they can't turn off our cell phones and she said yes.

The bad news is that I was told to talk to customer service at Norv.
I called there.  Following the directory instructions to press "0"
for a representative, the service transferred me and that
extension "is not accepting messages."

By the looks of things on the employee board, there are only a few
employees there.

I am like the last post, I don't have the back of the contract and I
never received a copy signed by Norv.  Does that hold up in court?
Doubtful. I am guess our only way out of these leases is to maintain
that the entire process was fraudulent. My advice, gather all of your
documents, phone messages, notes from phone calls, etc to document
the entire scam.

I am in the same boat.  I signed the lease with Norvergence.  My
sales rep never showed me the back of the Norvergence Lease and
never gave me a copy of it- when I asked about it he said there was
none!  Based on this I went with Norvergence because I if
Norvergence went bankrupt, my lease was with Norvergence so I would
not have to pay.  Then CIT sent me a bill.  I called Norvergence
about it and they said CIT was collecting lease payments for
Norvergence!  The first I heard about any problems was a letter I
got from CIT saying that they were assigned the lease and that hey
had all the rights to the lease but none of the obligations as
stated under the assignment section on the back of the agreement I
went ballistic!   This is clearly a scam and CIT and other banks
clearly knew what was going on and condoned it.

We are with Popular Leasing too and my feeling is that they have an
issue with the bankruptcy courts - not with us.  We specifically
asked our slimy salesman the question, "What happens if Norvergence
goes out of business?" and he said something to the effect of "We
are a sister company of Nortel and should something happen to us,
they will pick up the service."  Now we find out that Nortel has
nothing and wants nothing to do with them.

Has anyone's attorney provided any insight as far as getting out of
these leases?

--- In TheAberdeenKid@yahoogroups.com, "b1ueice" <b1ueice@y...>
wrote:
> I recently signed up and have not received service of any sort.  I
> contacted the financial company (Popular leasing) and they said
I'm on
> the hook for the full amount.  Of course I'm not going to pay a
dime,
> and rather give the money to fund a law suit. I should have tested
> their customer service as well as their emergency tech support
before
> signing up.  I will be weary about signing any documents in the
> future.  The sales guy I worked with Robert Allen was a complete
prick
> and should have known he was a slimeball as soon as I shook his
hand.
>
> feel free to email me at b1ueice@y...
>
> Another thought, I was given 5 names as references, if anyone else
had
> requested references, we should contact them all abouth this
message
> board.

I recently signed up and have not received service of any sort.  I
contacted the financial company (Popular leasing) and they said I'm on
the hook for the full amount.  Of course I'm not going to pay a dime,
and rather give the money to fund a law suit. I should have tested
their customer service as well as their emergency tech support before
signing up.  I will be weary about signing any documents in the
future.  The sales guy I worked with Robert Allen was a complete prick
and should have known he was a slimeball as soon as I shook his hand.

feel free to email me at b1ueice@...

Another thought, I was given 5 names as references, if anyone else had
requested references, we should contact them all abouth this message
board.

Just joined your discussion group.
We are a small company in South Florida. We are also victims of this
scam. We are almost "fully connected", have the T1 running and 800
numbers. Also our celulars phones are up with T-Mobile. Fortunately,
Norvergence "forgot" to transfer our telephone lines and we never
got to the point of cancelling our contract with the local telephone
company.

We have paid the Leasing company about 4 months. We called the
Leasing company this afternoon, responding to a letter suggesting we
contact them and "discuss the possibility of identifying alternate
service providers..". I'm still waiting for them to return my call.

I think that going back to prior telephone services and getting new
cell lines is not the problem. The BIG problem is the contract
signed with the Leasing Company.  This is our main concern and I'm
sure what concerns most: the 5 year contract for a lease of
equipment that will not be used. I deem impossible that we cannot
find a way to shield from further damage, both from the
leasing companies and Norvergence.

I believe that this should be our main focus.

I am unable to access the file can you email it to me? to:
val@...

Thanks.


--- In TheAberdeenKid@yahoogroups.com,
TheAberdeenKid@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> This email message is a notification to let you know that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the TheAberdeenKid
> group.
>
>   File        : /qwest_motion.pdf
>   Uploaded by : scientia_veritas <professor_smartypants@y...>
>   Description : Quest Motion
>
> You can access this file at the URL
>
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheAberdeenKid/files/qwest_motion.pdf
>
> To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit
>
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
>
> Regards,
>
> scientia_veritas <professor_smartypants@y...>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the TheAberdeenKid
group.

   File        : /qwest_motion.pdf
   Uploaded by : scientia_veritas <professor_smartypants@...>
   Description : Quest Motion

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheAberdeenKid/files/qwest_motion.pdf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

scientia_veritas <professor_smartypants@...>

I am the owner of a Manhattan based real estate brokerage firm and
have been a Norvergence customer since Feb 03 (If my memory serves
me correctly). My service is still up and running though i fear that
Qwest will pull the plug on the Norvergence lines shortly as they
did mid month in June. I am glad to have found this group and
hopeful that we can share information and possibly get a Law suit
going if service does go out.
Has anyone contacted the attorney general? Maybe someone could force
Qwest to keep the lines up long enough for Norvergence customers to
find alternate solutions so that at least business doesn't get
interrupted. Then we can try and deal with the financing companies.
$704 to GE Capitol in my case...

I'm a small business owner in California and I've been trying to
cancel my contract with Norvergence with no luck yet.  I met with an
attorney this morning but wanted to provide my info to you and am
also interested in seeing how many of us there are.

Todd

todd@...

I'm a small business owner in California and I've been trying to
cancel my contract with Norvergence with no luck yet.  I met with an
attorney this morning but wanted to provide my info to you and am
also interested in seeing how many of us there are.

Todd

todd@...

I'm a small business owner in California and I've been trying to
cancel my contract with Norvergence with no luck yet.  I met with an
attorney this morning but wanted to provide my info to you and am
also interested in seeing how many of us there are.

Todd

todd@...

Has anyone been sending their payments to Norv Capital (it is being
administered by De Lage Landen)?

I have seen all of the other debtors mentioned, this one does not
seem to be part of the debtor group.

I am concerned that they will continue to charge us the "rent".  Of
course, the debtors are the ones to whom the biggest fraud was
committed. They lent money predicated on a lie. Customers will stop
paying in droves. They are left with big expenses in trying to
collect on a worthless box.

I am not a Norvergence customer, but I talked to an attorney this
morning on behalf of one of my cliets who was. The problem for an
attorney in taking a case like this, even a class-action, is that
there may not be (and probably aren't) any assets to go after. There
has to be something in this to make it attractive to an attorney to
motivate such a case.

A Federal agency, like the FBI, or your State's Attorney's Office is
probably going to be the best bet.


--- In TheAberdeenKid@yahoogroups.com, "rberns0111" <RBerns0111@a...>
wrote:
> Gotcha. I looked at the ARCNET website...very impressive company.  I
> too have been lied to by this company. The "employee" thread has
> revealed a lot to me in terms of how this scheme incentivized their
> screening managers, customer support staff etc (imagine CSRs making
> $7k per month) and therefore perpetuating the lies they were being
> told.
>
> Here's hoping you attract a lot of others like us.
>
> --- In TheAberdeenKid@yahoogroups.com, "theaberdeenkid"
> <theaberdeenkid@y...> wrote:
> > I am the IT Manager for a company called ARCNET. We are an A&E
> > Telecommunications firm in New Jersey. We design and build wireless
> > networks for the telecom companies. We have been a NorVergence
> > client for over a year and the number of lies that we were told is
> > astounding. I not as interested in being the lead plaintiff per se
> > in a class action suit as much as I am trying to gather as many ex-
> > customers, ex-employees and correct information together to make it
> > attractive for a lawyer to want to file the action and jail those
> > who perpetrated this fraud.
> >
> >
> > --- In TheAberdeenKid@yahoogroups.com, "rberns0111"
> > <RBerns0111@a...> wrote:
> > > I don't necessarily need your identity. However, if I (or anyone
> > > else) is to hitch our wagon to a class action train, I need to
> > know a
> > > little about who the leader is.
> > >
> > > If you would like, email me directly.

Gotcha. I looked at the ARCNET website...very impressive company.  I
too have been lied to by this company. The "employee" thread has
revealed a lot to me in terms of how this scheme incentivized their
screening managers, customer support staff etc (imagine CSRs making
$7k per month) and therefore perpetuating the lies they were being
told.

Here's hoping you attract a lot of others like us.

--- In TheAberdeenKid@yahoogroups.com, "theaberdeenkid"
<theaberdeenkid@y...> wrote:
> I am the IT Manager for a company called ARCNET. We are an A&E
> Telecommunications firm in New Jersey. We design and build wireless
> networks for the telecom companies. We have been a NorVergence
> client for over a year and the number of lies that we were told is
> astounding. I not as interested in being the lead plaintiff per se
> in a class action suit as much as I am trying to gather as many ex-
> customers, ex-employees and correct information together to make it
> attractive for a lawyer to want to file the action and jail those
> who perpetrated this fraud.
>
>
> --- In TheAberdeenKid@yahoogroups.com, "rberns0111"
> <RBerns0111@a...> wrote:
> > I don't necessarily need your identity. However, if I (or anyone
> > else) is to hitch our wagon to a class action train, I need to
> know a
> > little about who the leader is.
> >
> > If you would like, email me directly.

I am the IT Manager for a company called ARCNET. We are an A&E
Telecommunications firm in New Jersey. We design and build wireless
networks for the telecom companies. We have been a NorVergence
client for over a year and the number of lies that we were told is
astounding. I not as interested in being the lead plaintiff per se
in a class action suit as much as I am trying to gather as many ex-
customers, ex-employees and correct information together to make it
attractive for a lawyer to want to file the action and jail those
who perpetrated this fraud.


--- In TheAberdeenKid@yahoogroups.com, "rberns0111"
<RBerns0111@a...> wrote:
> I don't necessarily need your identity. However, if I (or anyone
> else) is to hitch our wagon to a class action train, I need to
know a
> little about who the leader is.
>
> If you would like, email me directly.

I don't necessarily need your identity. However, if I (or anyone
else) is to hitch our wagon to a class action train, I need to know a
little about who the leader is.

If you would like, email me directly.

I have no problem identifying myself but what is the reason you
would like to know my identity. I am just a customer who is feed up
with this fraud and wants a bit of justice.

--- In TheAberdeenKid@yahoogroups.com, "rberns0111"
<RBerns0111@a...> wrote:
> I too have "leased" a Norvergence system. I questioned many of
> the "too good to be true" concepts. Unfortunately, I did not read
any
> agreements as carefully as I should have.  I am now finding out
way
> more than I want to know. To continue to pay (in our case) $266
per
> month for 54 more months on a box worth $599 or less is crazy.  I
am
> petrified at the legal and financial ramifications to my business.
>
> I have been promised many things by customer service people. I
have
> dates and times of all of my communications.  When I last spoke to
> customer service last week, no one had any recollections of their
> conversations with me, regarless of my documentation.   This is a
> major scam.
>
> Therefore, I am on board with any kind of class action suit, it
would
> be a lot cheaper than taking on lawyers individually.
>
> By the way, Aberdeenkid, can you identify yourself?

I too have "leased" a Norvergence system. I questioned many of
the "too good to be true" concepts. Unfortunately, I did not read any
agreements as carefully as I should have.  I am now finding out way
more than I want to know. To continue to pay (in our case) $266 per
month for 54 more months on a box worth $599 or less is crazy.  I am
petrified at the legal and financial ramifications to my business.

I have been promised many things by customer service people. I have
dates and times of all of my communications.  When I last spoke to
customer service last week, no one had any recollections of their
conversations with me, regarless of my documentation.   This is a
major scam.

Therefore, I am on board with any kind of class action suit, it would
be a lot cheaper than taking on lawyers individually.

By the way, Aberdeenkid, can you identify yourself?

I think if enough customers could band together we could accomplish
something meaningful.

Steve Elliott, President
Medical Billing Resources
478.477.4818 x130 (if it's still working)
steve@...

We signed up for the long-distance, cell-phone, T1 service in April,
2003.  In April, 2004, we upgraded to the full CCS service where we
got all the phones, voicemail, incoming 800-numbers, etc.  In June,
we moved to a new location and had the matrix box and phones moved
and reinstalled, however the T1 was delayed a month - so we've had
to have regular copper phone lines installed and activated, DSL
service activated and all of our old numbers (plus the new 800-
numbers) forwarded to the new local numbers assigned to the new
copper lines.  The T1 line has since been installed but no one from
Norvergence has been out to connect it to the Matrix box.

Needless-to-say, this whole ordeal has been a complete mess.  We
have stopped paying Norvergence for the monthly circuit and other
charges.  And we have stopped paying our monthly lease charge to
Popular Leasing.  I'm planning on converting our cell-phones,
local/long-distance and DSL to our name tomorrow.  Has anyone else
been able to do this?  Any problems?

I'm glad this group has been started.  I feel completely in the dark
here.

We are a screwed customer also.  Please keep me in the loop.

colin@...



--- In TheAberdeenKid@yahoogroups.com, "nycpoet100"
<nycpoet100@y...> wrote:
> We are customers - don't have the info on hand - will be in office
on
> Fri.  We are extremely interested in any suit brought forth by
> consumers that have been "scammed".
>
>
> --- In TheAberdeenKid@yahoogroups.com, "theaberdeenkid"
> <theaberdeenkid@y...> wrote:
> > Well if you have been a NorVergence customer than I need not
> explain
> > the purpose of this board. We hope to create a clearance site of
> > names and information in hope of a class action suit to at least
> > alleviate NorVergence customers of the hardware finance payments
> > that customers are responsible for regardless of whether
> NorVergence
> > can supply the service or not.
> > So please post your business and contact information as well as
> what
> > equipment and services you are currently under contract for.

We are customers - don't have the info on hand - will be in office on
Fri.  We are extremely interested in any suit brought forth by
consumers that have been "scammed".


--- In TheAberdeenKid@yahoogroups.com, "theaberdeenkid"
<theaberdeenkid@y...> wrote:
> Well if you have been a NorVergence customer than I need not
explain
> the purpose of this board. We hope to create a clearance site of
> names and information in hope of a class action suit to at least
> alleviate NorVergence customers of the hardware finance payments
> that customers are responsible for regardless of whether
NorVergence
> can supply the service or not.
> So please post your business and contact information as well as
what
> equipment and services you are currently under contract for.

Well if you have been a NorVergence customer than I need not explain
the purpose of this board. We hope to create a clearance site of
names and information in hope of a class action suit to at least
alleviate NorVergence customers of the hardware finance payments
that customers are responsible for regardless of whether NorVergence
can supply the service or not.
So please post your business and contact information as well as what
equipment and services you are currently under contract for.