I've made a couple of errors with messages sent to the wrong folks tonight.
I guess all those years at altitude have done me in.  At least the joint
pains aren't too bad.  I hope all the messages get sorted out.  I think once
I get a scorecard I'll be able to tell who the players are.


John and Debbie Hettish
Middle Tennessee Two-way Inc.
http://www.mt2w.com

Len,

     I'll quite calling you Ken eventually, I wonder if you've actually
talked directly to the NWS guy to find out what he expects of your company?
I find the direct approach to be the best.  They usually roll over in the
face of logic especially if that logic is comming from someone who can cause
him trouble later.  From what I'm reading it seems that you've had other
folks talking to this guy.  I think its time you talked to him.  If someone
said my company wasn't qualified I'd be on the phone to him in a heart beat.
In fact I have done just that at times.  The conversation which I dread
initiating always goes much smoother and friendlier than I expected.  Of
course while there might be nice conversation the guy still might not do the
right thing.  At least you've talked to him.  If I presume too much I
apologize.

     I like the other guys on the list quite a bit but they're not tower
workers and cannot appreciate some of the topics we like to discuss.  I
often stop when I see tower crew working and engage them in conversation.
At first they are rather reluctant to talk to me until they determine I know
What I'm talking about.  Then we have a great conversation.  We in the tower
business are rather isolated from one another and its good to get together.

     How does my capstan mount look?  Does it look like it will ever bend?

John Hettish
Middle Tennessee Two-way Inc.
http://www.mt2w.com

Good points, Len.
I just have to get a little bigger, as we only work with 3 men, and 2
part-timers.
They were picked for common sense and thoroughness.
I like the dropped tools scenario, too.
Got to start doing that, too.
Ken

Quizzes are not out of line if you’re the boss.  The boss shouldn’t have
to be running up with a wrench they forgot or to untangle the line that
was not rigged correctly.  Take the time to train even those guys who
claim to have built 100s of towers.  Stacking steel is a bit different
than hanging lines brackets, and antennas.  We have a policy for those
who drop tools too…They either buy supper or the case of beer.  We
strictly enforce it too.  It is not too hard to know where your tools
are.

I think my worst problems seem to be finding people who have a driver’s
license or are not wanted by the law for one reason or another.  I have
a heart and will try to help anyone who has not committed felony type
things.  We have one fellow now who does not have a driver’s license
only because he has been caught driving without one too many times and
has to forfeit days off when we are not going his way to the job.  It
has inspired him to clean up his act and is almost ready to get his
license back.  We cut him no slack.  For those with drug problems or
drinking problems, they are shown the door.

Finding people has always been a problem, wish I had the people I’ve
seen walk away due to the boss being too harsh or expect more from the
employee than he is capable of delivering.  With a little additional
training they could be excellent workers.

We work with other crews on a time-share agreement and almost every crew
we have worked with I always hear later that the guys want to work with
my crew.  This year we are doing some training of greenhorns from
another company who has no training available to them.  We get them on
our crew for 60-days.  If they don’t make the grade, they are down the
road.

NATE is simply another organization for the LARGE company.  Small
companies should organize too but an affordable membership and be a
resource for employees, safety equipment, techniques, real issues facing
the small companies.



Len Kreyer

SKYWAVE AERIAL SERVICE

Arlington, Wisconsin

(Hopefully, everyone will steal, or , at least, borrow it....)

John Hettish
Middle Tennessee Two-way Inc.
http://www.mt2w.com

BTW: I think I said, "every move is a thought" Joe.  Of course I stole it
from someone else.

Help me out with NWS....?
Ken

some food for thought

Speech by
                 Charlton Heston at Harvard University


------------------------------------------------------------------------

         Charlton Heston addressed the topic 'Winning the Cultural War'
at the
         Harvard Law School Forum, February 16, 1999. Here is the text of
that
         speech:


------------------------------------------------------------------------

         By Charlton Heston
         (c) 1999

         I remember my son when he was 5, explaining to his kindergarten
class
         what his father did for a living. "My Daddy," he said, "pretends
to be
         people." There have been quite a few of them. Prophets from the
Old and
         New Testaments, a couple of Christian saints, generals of
various
         nationalities and different centuries, several kings, three
American
         presidents, a French cardinal and two geniuses, including
Michelangelo. If
         you want the ceiling re-painted I'll do my best. There always
seem to be a
         lot of different fellows up here. I'm never sure which one of
them gets to
         talk. Right now, I guess I'm the guy.

         As I pondered our visit tonight it struck me: if my Creator gave
me the gift
         to connect you with the hearts and minds of those great men,
then I want to
         use that same gift now to re-connect you with your own sense of
liberty ...
         your own freedom of thought ... your own compass for what is
right.
         Dedicating the memorial at Gettysburg, Abraham Lincoln said of
America,
         "We are now engaged in a great Civil War, testing whether this
nation or
         any nation so conceived and so dedicated can long endure." Those
words
         are true again. I believe that we are again engaged in a great
civil war, a
         cultural war that's about to hijack your birthright to think and
say what
         resides in your heart. I fear you no longer trust the pulsing
lifeblood of
         liberty inside you ... the stuff that made this country rise
from wilderness
         into the miracle that it is. Let me back up. About a year ago I
became
         president of the National Rifle Association, which protects the
right to keep
         and bear arms. I ran for office, I was elected, and now I serve
... I serve as
         a moving target for the media who've called me everything from
         "ridiculous" and "duped" to a "brain-injured, senile, crazy old
man." I know
         ... I'm pretty old ... but I sure thank the Lord ain't senile.
As I have stood in
         the crosshairs of those who target Second Amendment freedoms,
I've
         realized that firearms are not the only issue. No, it's much,
much bigger than
         that. I've come to understand that a cultural war is raging
across our land, in
         which, with Orwellian fervor, certain acceptable thoughts and
speech are
         mandated. For example, I marched for civil rights with Dr. King
in 1963 --
         long before Hollywood found it fashionable. But when I told an
audience
         last year that white pride is just as valid as black pride or
red pride or
         anyone else's pride, they called me a racist.

         I've worked with brilliantly talented homosexuals all my life.
But when I
         told an audience that gay rights should extend no further than
your rights or
         my rights, I was called a homophobe.
         I served in World War II against the Axis powers. But during a
speech,
         when I drew an analogy between singling out innocent Jews and
singling out
         innocent gun owners, I was called an anti-Semite. Everyone I
know knows I
         would never raise a closed fist against my country. But when I
asked an
         audience to oppose this cultural persecution, I was compared to
Timothy
         McVeigh.

         >From Time magazine to friends and colleagues, they're
essentially saying,
         "Chuck, how dare you speak your mind. You are using language not
         authorized for public consumption!"

         But I am not afraid. If Americans believed in political
correctness, we'd
         still be King George's boys-subjects bound to the British crown.
In his
         book, "The End of Sanity," Martin Gross writes that "blatantly
irrational
         behavior is rapidly being established as the norm in almost
every area of
         human endeavor. There seem to be new customs, new rules, new
         anti-intellectual theories regularly foisted on us from every
direction.
         Underneath, the nation is roiling. Americans know something,
without a
         name is undermining the nation, turning the mind mushy when it
comes to
         separating truth from falsehood and right from wrong. And they
don't like
         it."

         Let me read a few examples. At Antioch college in Ohio, young
men
         seeking intimacy with a coed must get verbal permission at each
step of the
         process from kissing to petting to final copulation ... all
clearly spelled out
         in a printed college directive.

         In New Jersey, despite the death of several patients nationwide
who had
         been infected by dentists who had concealed their AIDS --- the
state
         commissioner announced that health providers who are
HIV-positive need
         not. .. need not .. tell their patients that they are infected.
         At William and Mary, students tried to change the name of the
school team
         "The Tribe" because it was supposedly insulting to local
Indians, only to
         learn that authentic Virginia chiefs truly like the name. In San
Francisco,
         city fathers passed an ordinance protecting the rights of
transvestites to
         cross-dress on the job, and for transsexuals to have separate
toilet facilities
         while undergoing sex change surgery. In New York City, kids who
don't
         speak a word of Spanish have been placed in bilingual classes to
learn their
         three R's in Spanish solely because their last names sound
Hispanic.

         At the University of Pennsylvania, in a state where thousands
died at
         Gettysburg opposing slavery, the president of that college
officially set up
         segregated dormitory space for black students. Yeah, I know ...
that's out of
         bounds now. Dr. King said "Negroes." Jimmy Baldwin and most of
us on
         the March said "black." But it's a no-no now.

         Finally, just last month ... David Howard, head of the
Washington D.C.
         Office of Public Advocate, used the word "niggardly" while
talking to
         colleagues about budgetary matters. Of course, 'niggardly' means
stingy or
         scanty. But within days Howard was forced to publicly apologize
and
         resign. As columnist Tony Snow wrote: "David Howard got fired
because
         some people in public employ were morons who (a) didn't know the
         meaning of 'niggardly,' (b) didn't know how to use a dictionary
to discover
         the meaning, and (c) actually demanded that he apologize for
their
         ignorance." What does all of this mean? It means that telling us
what to think
         has evolved into telling us what to say, so telling us what to
do can't be far
         behind. Before you claim to be a champion of free thought, tell
me: Why did
         political correctness originate on America's campuses? And why
do you
         continue to tolerate it? Why do you, who're supposed to debate
ideas,
         surrender to their suppression?

         Let's be honest. Who here thinks your professors can say what
they really
         believe? It scares me to death, and should scare you too, that
the
         superstition of political correctness rules the halls of reason.
You are the
         best and the brightest. You, here in the fertile cradle of
American academia,
         here in the castle of learning on the Charles River, you are the
cream. But I
         submit that you, and your counterparts across the land, are the
most socially
         conformed and politically silenced generation since Concord
Bridge.

         And as long as you validate that ... and abide it ... you are-by
your
         grandfathers' standards-cowards. Here's another example. Right
now at
         more than one major university, Second Amendment scholars and
         researchers are being told to shut up about their findings or
they'll lose their
         jobs. Why? Because their research findings would undermine
big-city
         mayor's pending lawsuits that seek to extort hundreds of
millions of dollars
         from firearm manufacturers.
         I don't care what you think about guns. But if you are not
shocked at that, I
         am shocked at you. Who will guard the raw material of unfettered
ideas, if
         not you? Who will defend the core value of academia, if you
supposed
         soldiers of free thought and expression lay down your arms and
plead,
         "Don't shoot me."

         If you talk about race, it does not make you a racist. If you
see distinctions
         between the genders, it does not make you a sexist. If you think
critically
         about a denomination, it does not make you anti-religion. If you
accept but
         don't celebrate homosexuality, it does not make you a homophobe.

         Don't let America's universities continue to serve as incubators
for this
         rampant epidemic of new McCarthyism. But what can you do? How
can
         anyone prevail against such pervasive social subjugation? The
answer's
         been here all along. I learned it 36 years ago, on the steps of
the Lincoln
         Memorial in Washington D.C., standing with Dr. Martin Luther
King and
         two hundred thousand people.

         You simply ... disobey. Peaceably, yes. Respectfully, of course.
         Nonviolently, absolutely. But when told how to think or what to
say or how
         to behave, we don't. We disobey social protocol that stifles and
stigmatizes
         personal freedom.

         I learned the awesome power of disobedience from Dr. King ...
who
         learned it from Gandhi, and Thoreau and Jesus and every other
great man
         who led those in the right against those with the might.

         Disobedience is in our DNA. We feel innate kinship with that
Disobedient
         spirit that tossed tea into Boston Harbor, that sent Thoreau to
jail, that
         refused to sit in the back of the bus, that protested a war in
Vietnam. In that
         same spirit, I am asking you to disavow cultural correctness
with massive
         disobedience of rogue authority, social directives and onerous
law that
         weaken personal freedom.

         But be careful ... it hurts. Disobedience demands that you put
yourself at
         risk. Dr. King stood on lots of balconies. You must be willing
to be
         humiliated ... to endure the modern-day equivalent of the police
dogs at
         Montgomery and the water Cannons at Selma. You must be willing
to
         experience discomfort. I'm not Complaining, but my own decades
of social
         activism have taken their toll on me. Let me tell you a story.

         A few years back I heard about a rapper named Ice-T who was
selling a
         CD called "Cop Killer" celebrating ambushing and murdering
police
         officers. It was being marketed by none other than Time/Warner,
the biggest
         entertainment conglomerate in the world. Police across the
country were
         outraged. Rightfully so-at least one had been murdered. But
Time/Warner
         was stonewalling because the CD was a cash cow for them, and the
media
         were tiptoeing around it because the rapper was black. I heard
         Time/Warner had a stockholders meeting scheduled in Beverly
Hills. I
         owned some shares at the time, so I decided to attend.

         What I did there was against the advice of my family and
colleagues. I
         asked for the floor. To a hushed room of a thousand average
American
         stockholders, I simply read the full lyrics of "Cop
Killer"-every vicious,
         vulgar, instructional word.
         "I GOT MY 12 GAUGE SAWED OFF
         I GOT MY HEADLIGHTS TURNED OFF
         I'm ABOUT TO BUST SOME SHOTS OFF
         I'm ABOUT TO DUST SOME COPS OFF..."

         It got worse, a lot worse. I won't read the rest of it to you.
But trust me, the
         room was a sea of shocked, frozen, blanched faces. The
Time/Warner
         executives squirmed in their chairs and stared at their shoes.
They hated me
         for that. Then I delivered another volley of sick lyric brimming
with racist
         filth, where Ice-T fantasizes about sodomizing two 12-year old
nieces of Al
         and Tipper Gore. "SHE PUSHED HER BUTT AGAINST MY ...." Well, I
         won't do to you here what I did to them. Let's just say I left
the room in
         echoing silence. When I read the lyrics to the waiting press
corps, one of
         them said "We can't print that." "I know," I replied, "but
Time/Warner is
         selling it."

         Two months later, Time/Warner terminated Ice-T's contract. I'll
never be
         offered another film by Warners, or get a good review from Time
magazine.
         But disobedience means you must be willing to act, not just
talk. When a
         mugger sues his elderly victim for defending herself ... jam the
switchboard
         of the district attorney's office. When your university is
pressured to lower
         standards until 80 percent of the students graduate with honors
... choke the
         halls of the board of regents. When an 8-year-old boy pecks a
girl's cheek
         on the playground and gets hauled into court for sexual
harassment ... march
         on that school and block its doorways. When someone you elected
is
         seduced by political power and betrays you ... petition them,
oust them,
         banish them. When Time magazine's cover portrays millennium nuts
as
         deranged, crazy Christians holding a cross as it did last month
... boycott
         their magazine and the products it advertises. So that this
nation may long
         endure, I urge you to follow in the hallowed footsteps of the
great
         disobediences of history that freed exiles, founded religions,
defeated
         tyrants, and yes, in the hands of an aroused rabble in arms and
a few great
         men, by God's grace, built this country. If Dr. King were here,
I think he
         would agree.

         Thank you.

         Charlton Heston

I'm fifty-four and still climb 70 percent of the time, especially on the
very tall towers.  I have long had teh feeling however that if two guys are
equally competent aloft, then the more experienced guy needs to be on the
ground.  Only those who have been told to "hang on a minute" (truly a tower
crew bit of inside humor) while the inexperienced ground guy suddenly
remembers that he hasn't installed the connector or ground kits on the cable
he's about to send you wastes another thirty minutes getting that done.  He
then proceeds to tie several granny knots in the hauling line which you have
to figure out how to untie without dropping the cable. Argh!

My business partner has always been a pretty good ground guy but refuses to
learn knots.  Fortunately I have other guys I've trained to tie knots and
that is working out pretty well.

I think NATE  is a great organization but too expensive.  They needed a
large influx of cash to begin their lobbying efforts but I really believe
that if they created another category of membership, lets say non-voting
industry members, and charge $500 annually instead of $1000 and up they
would do much better in their avowed quest to make everyone safer.  It has
been mentioned in the various columns of the "Tower Times" that the lack of
"old hands" has caused a lack of training for the newbies and brought OSHA
into the fray.  I'd send them $500 but not $1500 as I need that for my
insurance.  Of course NATE might want only the nationwide companies and
could care less about us.  Each month however I do see where some apparently
small company has joined, presumably for the $1000 membership fee for five
or less employees.  I have nine employees and therefore would have to cough
up $1500 per year.  Its like anything else, if some company decides I need
to be a NATE member and will guarantee me a certain amount of business I'll
join.

I think Ken needs to call the NWS guy and get him to spell out what
qualification entails.  That usually works for me, the direct approach.

John Hettish
Middle Tennessee Two-way Inc.
http://www.mt2w.com

BTW: I think I said, "every move is a thought" Joe.  Of course I stole it
from someone else.

Kinda makes you feel good, when you can do the work smoother, faster, and
safer than the young guy, thats cockier on the ground.....
Until he changes his pants, at the end of the day!
Every move is DEFINITELY a thought.
Very good frame of mind.
Ken.

I've never quite figured out where to go to get qualified, and certified,
and all that, except to the insurance company, either.
NATE would seem to be a good place to join, but the membership seems a
little steep to me, being a very small company.
Any suggestions appreciated, but theres still no substitute for
white-knuckled experience!
Ken' Antenna Services
Anybody with a huge job needing extra men, give a shout.

Hi, All.
Name here is Ken, not Len, of Ken's Antenna Services.<G>
I'm doing business in Mi., and am running into the same fun with Motorola, as
the rest of you guys.
One of the real interesting joys of dealing with them is the pay policy they
force on me.
If someone owes them money, its due within 30 days, no exceptions, but if they
owe me, the its 60-90 days....... maybe.
We did a series of jobs on some 500+ towers for them, and brought all jobs in
well before the requested completion date.
Think we could get paid quicker? Dream on!
That tab came in at 63 days, after raising hell.
Which, of course doesnt make for brownie points either.
I've always been the main climber, as its easier to trust myself, than a less
experienced person, but reality struck recently, when a ground crew couldn't
figure out how to rig a simple pick, without destroying a 1500' pc. of 1/2" pull
line.
Looks like I won't be getting quite the exercise as before.
Good ground crew is hard to find. (like whats a knot, man?)
Anyways, enough grousin', enjoy the warm weather!
Ken.

Hello to All,

I am a Systems Tech for PageNet, was a tech for MetroCall and also SNET
Cellular.  All my work has been in the Connecticut, Western Mass and Rhode
Island area.

What I am noticing lately (been doing this since 1985) is many new and
young faces on the tower crews.  What I am also noticing is the lack of
proper training, by some of the companies, for the new crew members.  It
almost appears that the abundance of wireless work in the Northeast has
caused the hiring of tower crew personnel right off the street, and has not
left the proper time to train them.

In one case, a new crew member came in the shelter to shoot the breeze with
me as I was programming up the station.  After almost 1/2 hour I suggested
that he might want to look after the well being of the guy up the tower.  I
guess the though never crossed his mind.

I would appreciate your opinions of what a safe tower crew is.  An old time
climber told me that "every move on a tower is a thought".  I always
remembered that.

BTW, one of the guys I hire for small jobs, like replacing antennas, is
well over 80 years old and still climbing to well over 300 feet.  So there
is a future for old tower climbers.... ;-)

Joe

Ipve been having problems with my Internet Service Provider.  I've tried to
answer several messages on Saturday March 27 th but was unable to.  At least
now I believe its been taken care of.

John Hettish
Middle Tennessee Two-way Inc.
http://www.mt2w.com

Ok, You asked for it.

My incidents in 27 years of doing this sort of thing are as follows:

1  The firsst tower of any size that I ran the crew and erected was a
massive (150') Rohn 25 with about six guy levels.  When I finished the tower
it was time to install the DB224 on top.  I had recently devised a method of
standing up straight on the top section , balancing the 224 (all 19 feet and
30 pounds of it) and dropping it directly in to the clamps.  I didn't have
any "personal" safety equipment at the time and was wearing a leather
lineman's belt (1973).  My boss was a bit , shall we say, wider than me (a
lot wider).  When I stood up straight and began the balancing act the belt I
was wearing which now had no lanyard tension fell all the way to my ankles.
I lllked down at it and thought , "verrrry interesting", and completed my
antenna mount.

2.  About five years ago we were removing a 180 foot SSV tower from the back
of a hospital which was about to embark on a big construction project.  We
had the crane all ready to go and I had sent a guy up the tower to strip
cable.  I was on a ten foot ladder on that part known as the "Not-a-step"
leaning out and resting on the coax where it ran into the building when my
guy on the tower cut the key cable tie.  If it hadn't been for my business
partner standing on the pavement below me who reached up and touched my hand
long enough for me to regain my balance I would have fallen to the pavement
ten feet below maybe injuring myself, maybe not.

3.  Similiar to your microwave dish story we were lowering a six footer
(fibreglass and steel about 250 lbs) at night.  I was rigged with a two part
tackle to reduce the weight but was running out of rope.  I was using a 14
mil PMI kermantel rope to which I hastily rigged a prussik made of one inch
tubular nylon and attached the other end to a piece of 3/4 sisal.  We only
had about forty feet to go in our lowering of the dish.  A hard and fast
rule about prussik knots is that the medium with which you tie the prussik
must be smaller than that to which you are attaching it.  As soon as I put
tension on the line I heard a sound like zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzip POW!
The prussik had slipped and had run all the way to within six inches of the
end of the PMI before a bend in the rope stopped it.  No, I hadn't tied a
stopper know in the PMI.  Anyway it did stop and we finished lowering the
dish to the ground.  We know have a 1200 footer to do that kind of work.
Had the two lines parted we would have probably wiped out a piece of the
fence and "soiled our trousers" but probably nothing more.  Needless to say
I'll never make a rank amateur mistake like that one again.

Twenty seven years and that's it so far.  Of course I did wipe out my second
96 blazer in 8 months on my way to a tower job.  Youre statement about
driving to the site is right on the mark.

John Hettish
Middle Tennessee Two-way Inc.
http://www.mt2w.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Bomboy <rlee@...>
To: Tower-pro@onelist.com <Tower-pro@onelist.com>
Date: Saturday, March 27, 1999 1:57 PM
Subject: [Tower-pro] Re: Motorola Network Services (Wisconsin/Illinois Area)


>
>Would those be the ones who put concrete in tower legs by chance?
>


Ehhhhh, could be.



>At 01:01 PM 3/27/99 -0600, you wrote:
>>From: John Hettish <jhettish@...>
>>
>>
>>Hi Ken,

First off Len did I call you Ken to begin with? Second, I was commenting on a
post sometime ago on the LMR which was my understanding most ppl on here were
users there of. The was a running thread on there of a company in NJ who filled
SS tower legs with concrete to give it more "stability" There followed a lot of
disscussion on the subject as you might imagne. As a result someone said they
were gonna start a remailer for tower talk and I misteakenly assumed this was
it. Sorry, I will unsubcribe right away.



At 05:55 PM 3/27/99 -0600, you wrote:

>
> Whoever wrote the question below, makes no sense and surely not enough data
> to understand what subject he is talking about.  In order to have a good
> discussion it would be nice to explain a little what you are talking about.
> As a new subscriber, I can t find anything in archive to show your position
> in this discussion.
>
> &and the name is Len, not Ken.
>
>
>
>
>
> >>>>>>Would those be the ones who put concrete in tower legs by chance?<<<<<
>
> ­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­
> ­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­
>
> At 01:01 PM 3/27/99 -0600, you wrote:
>
> >From: John Hettish <jhettish@...>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >Hi Ken,
>
> >
>
> >    I'm sure glad you showed up on the list.  Actually the list has only
>
> >been active for a week or so and we have about thirty subscribers.  The idea
>
> >was so that we who make our living at this sort of thing could bounce ideas
>
> >off one another.  This list is an off-shoot of the LMR list.  I proposed my
>
> >desire to start a list for tower professionals and solicited ideas for a
>
> >proper name.  I think (and I could easily be wrong) that Rik Rasmussen came
>
> >up with "Towr-pro".  There is another list on the internet called
>
> >"Tower-talk" but it is related heavily to ham radio operators.  There are
>
> >also a bunch of folks on there who know absolutely everything there is to
>
> >know about towers and have no trouble letting those of us less gifted what
>
> >they know ;(
>
>
> Dick WA3USH



Dick WA3USH
"It happens, just deal with it"
The people will not understand the importance of the Second Amendment
until it is too late." -- Thomas Jefferson
*** WARNING TO UNSOLICITED SPAMMERS***
Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II,"Any and all
nonsolicited E-mail (SPAM) sent to this address is subject to a
download and archival fee of $500.00 US" !!!
E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms.

Then I’m going to take a different approach on the subject.

I only have had 2 incidents that I can remember.  One was when our crew
was hoisting up a 17’ gin pole to mount a couple of silos on a sidearm.
The Karabiner that attached to the lifting loop on the pole was not
locked and the pole took a 200’ plunge with no injuries to life or
property, but hurt our pride most of all.  The other was when we took
down a 6’ dish that was being replaced with a 10ghz. dish.  Somehow
during the trolley down off a 20 story building the line got caught on
something topside and the tagging crew pulled a bit too hard and folded
up the dish into a clamshell looking thing.  We got it down safe but it
didn’t look too good.  Lucky the dish was junk anyhow, but the sweat was
dripping just the same with thoughts of buying another dish to replace
it.

Sure let me hear of your gigs.  Helps us all learn how NOT to carry out
a task.  All other things that have happen to me were truck or driving
things that are not worth mentioning.  Mostly employee stupidity.

I did have one thing that was interesting for some.  I sent 2 pickup
trucks to a job site to do a job and pick up some dead spools to bring
back to the shop.  Since I am an amateur radio operator also, I had
amateur plates on both trucks…the same plate of course.

The State Patrol pulled the crew over to explain how both trucks could
have the same plate.  That took a while, our State Troopers aren’t too
smart.  When we got our new truck last year I put different plates on it
so that problem is over.



Len Kreyer

SKYWAVE AERIAL SERVICE

Arlington, Wisconsin



THE MOST DANGEROUS PART OF OUR JOB IS DRIVING TO AND FROM THE SITE

************************************************************************
********************

At 01:01 PM 3/27/99 -0600, you wrote:

>From: John Hettish <jhettish@...>

>

>

>Hi Ken,

>

>    I'm sure glad you showed up on the list.  Actually the list has
only

>been active for a week or so and we have about thirty subscribers.  The
idea

>was so that we who make our living at this sort of thing could bounce
ideas

>off one another.  This list is an off-shoot of the LMR list.  I
proposed my

>desire to start a list for tower professionals and solicited ideas for
a

>proper name.  I think (and I could easily be wrong) that Rik Rasmussen
came

>up with "Towr-pro".  There is another list on the internet called

>"Tower-talk" but it is related heavily to ham radio operators.  There
are

>also a bunch of folks on there who know absolutely everything there is
to

>know about towers and have no trouble letting those of us less gifted
what

>they know ;(


Dick WA3USH

Would those be the ones who put concrete in tower legs by chance?

At 01:01 PM 3/27/99 -0600, you wrote:
>From: John Hettish <jhettish@...>
>
>
>Hi Ken,
>
>    I'm sure glad you showed up on the list.  Actually the list has only
>been active for a week or so and we have about thirty subscribers.  The idea
>was so that we who make our living at this sort of thing could bounce ideas
>off one another.  This list is an off-shoot of the LMR list.  I proposed my
>desire to start a list for tower professionals and solicited ideas for a
>proper name.  I think (and I could easily be wrong) that Rik Rasmussen came
>up with "Towr-pro".  There is another list on the internet called
>"Tower-talk" but it is related heavily to ham radio operators.  There are
>also a bunch of folks on there who know absolutely everything there is to
>know about towers and have no trouble letting those of us less gifted what
>they know ;(

Dick WA3USH
"It happens, just deal with it"
The people will not understand the importance of the Second Amendment
until it is too late." -- Thomas Jefferson
*** WARNING TO UNSOLICITED SPAMMERS***
Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II,"Any and all
nonsolicited E-mail (SPAM) sent to this address is subject to a
download and archival fee of $500.00 US" !!!
E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms.

Hi Ken,

     I'm sure glad you showed up on the list.  Actually the list has only
been active for a week or so and we have about thirty subscribers.  The idea
was so that we who make our living at this sort of thing could bounce ideas
off one another.  This list is an off-shoot of the LMR list.  I proposed my
desire to start a list for tower professionals and solicited ideas for a
proper name.  I think (and I could easily be wrong) that Rik Rasmussen came
up with "Towr-pro".  There is another list on the internet called
"Tower-talk" but it is related heavily to ham radio operators.  There are
also a bunch of folks on there who know absolutely everything there is to
know about towers and have no trouble letting those of us less gifted what
they know ;(

     Motorola is rife with managers who do what they want to do based on
politics.  The guy could be getting something under the table but I'm naive
to think its a buddy-buddy thing.  Thats what I run into in Tennessee.  Its
only natural to deal with your friends but with tower management companies
the only thing that should matter should be getting the customer in the
building and on the tower.  It sould be nice if your customer would tell the
NWS guy where to get off but perhaps they need the location badly to put up
with his crap.

     What I find interesting however is the "your not qualified" crap he's
spouting.  What does it take to get qualified?  Every time I run into some
sort of a stumbing block of a requirement I do whatever I have to do, such
as the incredible crap of buying full body harnesses. (I prefer rock
climbing harnesses with center attachment points).  A customer tells me I
need $5meg worth of insurance instead of the measly $2meg I already have I
go ahead and get the $5meg.  As I have had only three minor incidents that
resulted in nothing and are more funny than they were dangerous in 27 years
I fully agree with your "Scam" analysis.  Most tower owners are afraid (or
have been conditioned by their lawyers to be afraid) of the tower climbers
family suing in case of an accident.  If a person who makes his living
climbing upon structures where death or serious injury could possibly occur,
and then falls to his death or dismemberment due to his own negligence, it
seems to me the family would be just like the guy who went into the hospital
for an amputation and due to a snafu  had the wrong leg amputated.  Of
course they had to go in later and amputate the leg originally scheduled.
When he tried to sue the judge through the case out of court since "He
didn't have a leg to stand on."      I wonder if the NWS guy is talking
about NATE membership, or wants copies of safety plans or whatever.  "Youre
not qualified" is a red flag to the bull in me and most people who know me
realize that I'm full of bull.  Usually all a tower manager wants to know is
if you're insured.

     I manage a couple of towers and own a couple.  I don't care who installs
antennas on my towers as long as they are experienced, insured and do a neat
job.  I want the income.  There are plenty of tower jobs for us to do; we
don't need to install every stick on our towers.  There's a management
company in Memphis who subleases on our towers.  I found out recently that a
potential client for one of my towers was not signed up by him because they
wanted to use someone else.  I would have rather had the income.

     With 27 years of experience I'm sure you're qualified.  Of course I know
nothing of your work or of any accidents you might have had.  If you get
along with other NWS managers in other areas I'd get their input. After that
find out who their and his boss is and contact him following the "what's
this I'm not qualified crap" line and see what he says.  Motorola is a
bureacracy and this particular NWS manager is a bureaucrat.  The best way to
mess up a bureaucrat is to embarass him.  I have sort of a non-relationship
with the local guy but that seems to be improving.  All he's ever worried
about is getting the client on his tower.

John Hettish
Middle Tennessee Two-way Inc.
www.mt2w.com

BTW: Do you want to hear about my three incidences in 27 years?

As an example, last year we did a job for a major paging company in
Eastern Wisconsin and was on a private tower.  There was another job on
a MNS tower being done the same day only about 30 miles away…both at the
same height, same antenna, same kind of tower, same transmission line,
same everything.  Our final bill to the customer was $1,576.00 less than
that of the other site installation on the MNS tower. Hmmmm, gets me
wondering to say the least.



On another note:  John the fellow who is looking for insurance a bit
cheaper….try Scottsdale Insurance Company, we have been with them for
the past 4 years and are happy with everything so far.



Remember, Insurance is a scam for us who have safety on our minds
24-hours.



GETTING TO AND FROM YOUR JOB SITE IS MORE DANGEROUS THAN THE WORK WE
DO!!



Len Kreyer

SKYWAVE AERIAL SERVICE

Arlington, Wisconsin

Does anyone know of a company ready and able to paint an 1100 foot
communications tower in Jackson Mississippi?

John Hettish
Middle Tennessee Two-way
http://www.mt2w.com

Soap away, for awhile, John.
Then we'll know what the reflector's all about!
I had an interesting little job, with Motorola.
Turns out that the field-rep, or someone, either ordered, or shipped , the
wrong verticals for a repeater project.
They were installed without even looking at the freq. tags, no questions
asked, then everyone wonders why the reflected power is so high!
What was comical, was that the antennas were calibrated for 142-150 Mhz,
instead of 150-158.
Wonder if there's a market, in the business world, for ham gear!
Also, would be nice if they could have been left up, for amateur use, but we
replaced them all with the correct stuff, and they play great.
By the time the last antenna was replaced, the crew had their times down to
1 1/2 hrs flat at 200', from driving in, to driving out.
I don't think thats bad, at all.
Any Motorola snafus would be interesting to hearabout.
Seems like they're getting more common.
Ken.

We are up to 22 members as of tonight.  Unfortunately no one is posting.  I
just got home from a two day trip to Memphis where I am installing less than
state of the art tower light monitors.  It gets pretty disgusting when the
things are shipped "pre-configured" and without the where-with-all to repair
programming errors to have them not work.  Today I arrived at my furthermost
site which is about three miles from the Mississippi river in North-western
Tennessee at 12 noon.  By 12:45 I was finished with installation and wiring.
The alarm would not answer the telephone.  I got out another board, swapped,
still no answer.  I tried another; still no answer.  Finallly I got one that
worked.  I left that site at 2:45 after all the replacing and repacking.
Between bad alarm pannels (probably mis-programmed) and out of service
telephone lines this is becomming pretty frustrating work.

Did climb 150 feet and replace some bulbs.  Ahhhh, the fresh air.


John Hettish
Middle Tennessee Two-way Inc.
http://www.mt2w.com

BTW: When and if folks start posting here I'll fade into the background.
This list is not intended to be my soapbox.

Hello,

     Onelist will be down for repairs.  Instead of me getting it wrong, the
text of their message is below.


The ONElist system will be down for scheduled maintenance this evening,
Monday March 22, 1999. We will be off-line from 8pm to 10pm Pacific Time
while we upgrade the system.

There, I didn't get it wrong.



John Hettish
Middle Tennessee Two-way Inc.
http://www.mt2w.com

I"ve just been told by my biggest national customer that my $2meg umbrella
liability isn't enough and I need to go to $5meg.  I've already priced it
and it looks like its going to cost an extra $1200 per year.  My insurance
carrier is State Farm who has my vehicle and Work Comp as well.  I'm not
quite sure what I'm paying annualy now as I don't pay the bill.  Does anyone
out there have any recommendations for insurers who might be a little less
costly.  I realize I haven't told you my annual costs but I will if this
thread expands.

John Hettish
Middle Tennessee Two-way Inc.
http://www.mt2w.com

At 06:47 AM 3/22/99 -0600, you wrote:
>From: John Hettish <jhettish@...>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: joecheck@... <joecheck@...>
>To: Tower-pro@onelist.com <Tower-pro@onelist.com>
>Date: Monday, March 22, 1999 6:10 AM
>Subject: [Tower-pro] Building Permits for Antenna Installations
>>don't know but will claim it is until someone tells us differently.
>I can recommend subscribing to the NATE magazine, Tower Times, or save the
>$65 annual fee and read it on line at NATE's web site.  They have a monthly
>column called "Doing Business in XXXXXX" which lists a different state every
>month.  The magazine is on line with the exception of advertisments and
>pictures at their WEB site which I can't remember the URL for but is easy to
>find with any internet search engine.

<http://www.natehome.com/>http://www.natehome.com/

try there  ^^^
Dick WA3USH
"It happens, just deal with it"

-----Original Message-----
From: joecheck@... <joecheck@...>
To: Tower-pro@onelist.com <Tower-pro@onelist.com>
Date: Monday, March 22, 1999 6:10 AM
Subject: [Tower-pro] Building Permits for Antenna Installations


>From: joecheck@...
>
>Hello to All,
>
>I  work for a major paging company who routinely hires tower crews to do
>antenna installations.  As a corporate mandate, I am now required to have a
>building permit pulled on any work done, even a simple antenna install to
>the side of an existing tower.  BTW, I work in the state of Connecticut.
>


I ran into a similiar requirement several years ago and while it was a
nuissance for me it was very costly for another company.  I erected a used
60 foot aluminum (no ginpole required) tower on a rural plot that belonged
to the customer that was going to use it commercially.  All went fine until
I tried to get electricity.  Since I hadn't applied for a building permit I
couldn't get electricity.  Those guys talk to each other.  It turns out that
in my county (Rutherfore, TN) any tower over 35 feet in heigth requires a
zoning variance.  This of course implies applying, the zoning commission
sending out the notices to the neighbors, and one or two (every 30 days)
meetings of the board before approval.

Another company erected a 1200 foot tower in Rutherford County without
building permit.  They lighted the tower with a generator for about five
months if memory serves correctly.  They finally got the permit problem
straightened out.

I've recently heard of a new requirement in Tennessee that anyone doing work
such as installing satellite antennas and the like were required to get a
contractors license.  One recent Motorola (factory) inspired bid for a local
government of a rather small county required that all bidders have a
contractors license.  We didn't bid that one; probably Motorola's intention
from the beginning.  What kind of contractors license?  It wasn't specified.
We have a state electrical contractor's license.  Is that adequate?  We
don't know but will claim it is until someone tells us differently.

I can recommend subscribing to the NATE magazine, Tower Times, or save the
$65 annual fee and read it on line at NATE's web site.  They have a monthly
column called "Doing Business in XXXXXX" which lists a different state every
month.  The magazine is on line with the exception of advertisments and
pictures at their WEB site which I can't remember the URL for but is easy to
find with any internet search engine.

Me, I'll continue to be confused by the new regulations every month.

John Hettish
Middle Tennessee Two-way Inc

BTW: One city in Colorado requires a building permit to install a new
antenna on a Building!

Hello to All,

I  work for a major paging company who routinely hires tower crews to do
antenna installations.  As a corporate mandate, I am now required to have a
building permit pulled on any work done, even a simple antenna install to
the side of an existing tower.  BTW, I work in the state of Connecticut.

The State of Connecticut has come up with a new policy for building
permits.  In order to stop the illegal activity of unlicensed and uninsured
contractors doing work in Connecticut, the State requires the town issuing
the building permit to get the trade license number and workman's
compensation information from the contractor.  So, no license, no building
permit.  Also, the contractor who pulls the permit has the liability of the
entire project if work is subcontracted out.  That contractor is also
responsible to see that subs are licensed in the trade that they are doing.
  Really confusing, I hope you all follow this.

Anyway, this all began 1-1-99 of this year.  On my first install, I went to
the town hall and asked what license is required to do antenna work.  The
building inspector did not know, so he called the Connecticut Consumer
Protection Agency. (Yes, they issue the trade licenses).  The answer was at
least a V-7 trade license, which covers CATV antenna systems, etc.  This
was the closest match, as nothing specified commercial radio antenna
systems.  I asked about an exemption, but they do not apply to building
permits.

So, now I'm stuck.  I have a major project to do, but only one tower
company licensed to do the job.  (And they are up to their ears in work,
they had the foresight to license one person to pull the permits).  And, my
company is adamant that I MUST pull a permit to do the job.

Anyone else run into the dilemma.

Joe

I try to visit with tower crews I see working as I do my 3000 miles a month.
Usually they are a little guarded when I approach but when they finally
figure I'm not just blowing smoke they loosen up and its old home week.  We
who work on communications towers rarely get to talk to one another.  With a
minimum membership fee of $1000 (it would be $1500 for my company) I don't
feel I can aford to be one of the good old boys who are members of NATE
  the National Association of Tower Erectors).

There are a lot of changes going on in the tower industry.  Small operations
such as mine are accused of having all the accidents but I don't think that
is necessarily true.  What is going on out there? I only know what I and my
several climbers and helpers are doing and that of the various tower crews I
interrupt at their work.  I know companies still using leather linemens
belts and no helmets.  Though I most often wear a Yates full body rigger's
harness I prefer my Petzl Navaho.  My unapproved helmets are also by Petzl.
they're unapproved but how many approved hard hats are there with chin
straps?

This is not my soap box, its yours let everyone know whose doing what.  At
the moment ( Sunday March 21, 7:45pm CST) there are about ten of us on the
list.  Feel free to say whats on your mind.


John Hettish
Middle Tennessee Two-way Inc.
http://www.mt2w.com

I see that several folks have already subscribed to the list.  The list will
not be moderated so its up to you to let fly.  I have quite a bit to say
about tower issues and in particular safety.  I like NATE and am impressed
by the way they've come up with proposed (and temporarily accepted)
variances which would once again make "Riding the ball" and free-climbing
practices acceptable in the eyes of OSHA but am chagrined at the fact that
they seem to universally accept the full body harness.  The FBH is fine for
working horizontal surfaces but what about vertical ones.  How does one
self-rescue while suspended a thousand feet up by the shoulder blades.  I
have some answers to that but not now.  So lets see some discussion.

John Hettish
Middle Tennessee Two-way Inc.
http://www.mt2w.com