Basically yes,

Silverlink if I remember correctly did a Metro book and a County one.
This Overground timetable is basically the Metro book, with a new
cover, and some pages inside (TfL route maps, a bit about Oyster).  The
timetable pages theirseleves are blue text, exactly as they used to be
with Silverlink.

On a related matter, National Express East Anglia have reissued
timetables, in their new corporate style with 'dog and bones' on the
front.  They are a carbon copy of the 'One' timetable, including all
its failings (no maps etc).  Not at all like the National Express East
Coast timetables (which again are the GNER timetable basically).

Cheers
James

--- In Transport_Timetables@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Forsythe"
<robert@...> wrote:
<SNIP>
It is fascinating if
> this means that the old Silverlink network booklet has survived. Does
> it?
>

>
> However, I noticed on Monday, tucked away by platform 2 (former North
> Woolwich platform) by a glass wall, a rack with orange timetables on.
>
> Inside, it is the Silverlink Metro format, still in blue text inside,
> but in a nice orange cover.
>
> Theres also a leaflet "London's New Train Set" that was with it.
>
It is very useful. I have tried several emails and one visit to obtain
anything with London Overground and got nowhere. It is fascinating if
this means that the old Silverlink network booklet has survived. Does
it?

Hi all,

This email was going to be a question to ask whether TfL actually
produce a paper timetable.... but I have since answered my own question
and found the holy grail.

In the past week, I have boarded/alighted at Highbury, Harringay GL,
Hackney Central, Homerton, Hackney Wick and Stratford and not seen any
timetables.

However, I noticed on Monday, tucked away by platform 2 (former North
Woolwich platform) by a glass wall, a rack with orange timetables on.

Inside, it is the Silverlink Metro format, still in blue text inside,
but in a nice orange cover.

Theres also a leaflet "London's New Train Set" that was with it.

Hope this is useful to some.

Regards


James

Peter,
On 21 Feb 2008, at 11:57, Peter Kazmierczak wrote:
> It might succeed, but how many individuals are going to shell out
> almost £180 a year for it?
>
> The National Rail Timetable used to be supplied free to each of our 12
> libraries. If we had to purchase the monthly Middleton timetable now,
> assuming some discount, one is talking around £1500. No way that could
> be justified.
>

Surely it'll be worth getting it twice a year, for the timetable
change dates.

I suspect the only changes in the meantime will be either for
engineering works (or changes on Sundays caused by engineering work),
or changes to connecting services (such as Yorkshire Coastliner).

--
Anzir Boodoo, PhD Student
The Institute for Transport Studies, The University of Leeds, LEEDS
LS2 9JT

It might succeed, but how many individuals are going to shell out
almost £180 a year for it?

The National Rail Timetable used to be supplied free to each of our 12
libraries. If we had to purchase the monthly Middleton timetable now,
assuming some discount, one is talking around £1500. No way that could
be justified.

We still get the monthly Cook's European Timetable, but just for our
main library.

Regards,
Peter

oh and I have put a picture in the Photos album

To my surprise and pleasure, this group has hardly been running a day
or so and a printed timetable for review dropped through the door.
Thankyou Vic Mitchell at www.middletonpress.co.uk . This the second
issued of this new national timetable, it is the January 2008 issue. A5
format, 1392 pages and 700 grams. Plus points: here is all the
information, browsable, portable (just about in the palm of the hand)
and certainly more useful in the field than the old Network Rail
behemoth. The January issue has 400 updated amendments (and December
had a 1000) so you do get a relatively reliable book. HOWEVER and this
is no discredit to Vic, it is the old Network Rail behemoth but laid
out with a smaller typeface and in two columns landscape format within
the portrait covers. So reading it is an issue for some folk. Vic makes
suggestions and does offer Magnification Sheets. The endpaper maps are
Network Rail's colour coded TOC summary map updated for 2008. The
challenge with this publication really lies with Network Rail. The
classic folding maps which had run for more than 40 years seem to have
been ditched by Network Rail. And although I would love a second
opinion, it seems to me that in the last few years NR were not putting
creative effort into the timetable design as the real network got
busier and busier. This along with the engineering work challenge
ensured the timetable grew and grew. It would be fascinating to know
whether a professional graphic designer working with a timetabler and
given the opportunity to go back to basics could produce the same
information in a lot less printed space. I rather think John Price now
deceased would have said Yes.

My summary: Vic's enterprise deserves the patronage of all habitual
travellers and railway students. It deserves to be well known. But
there are issues to solve and the resolution probably lies more with
Network Rail than Middleton Press. At £14.95, it's a bargain in
relation to the amount of time a traveller is likely to spend with it.

You will all have seen one photo I placed on the homepage to get things
moving.  That timetable is a duplicate and has just been listed
in my ebay auctions. Do folks have interesting timetables they wish to
upload into the photos area? Would folk like me to rotate the picture I
have on the home page. It is no sweat. I have thousands of scans
from all the auction lots and so changing the picture is easy. The
story behind this TfL one is that this was a most worthwhile series
done in the earlier years of this decade on an area by area basis
around London. I think they are defunct. Can anyone confirm that? There
were at least two groups. An A5 series like this and a rather more
vertical but thicker paperback book style. They were all modes and
featured specially prepared journey planner maps. (Forgive my test
posting but my first three versions of this post were rejected by Yahoo
for having virus in them - eh).

test please ignore

Ant,
On 20 Feb 2008, at 05:04, amn140174@... wrote:
> I picked a set up a couple of weeks ago at the TramLink Shop at East
> Croydon.
>
> The only places I know of in the capital that you can just help
> yourself from the display are.
>
> Tramlink Shop at East Croydon.
> East London Travel Shop In Ilford.
> Camden Direct over the road from Kings Cross Station.
> and as Robert said the Greenline Travel Shop at Victoria.
>
> I have also picked the odd leaflet up at various Tube Stations,
> Travel Information Offices and Victoria Coach Station.
>

I've not seen the bus maps at the Green Line office, but I have picked
them up from Travel Centres at Victoria and Euston. I also once picked
one up at a conference venue on Holloway Road.

The local area maps are easier to get hold of than the set of 5.

--
Anzir Boodoo, PhD Student
The Institute for Transport Studies, The University of Leeds, LEEDS
LS2 9JT

Dumfries & Galloway still issue an attractive multi volume timetable
set although the Long Distance and Ferry one has not appeared for a
while. There has been a January issue for the Stewartry and I am
interested to know if the whole series was re-issued then. A county
series that I think has ceased leaving just a few titles like Moors is
North Yorkshire. A matter of 3/4 years ago and I was able to secure a
cased set of A5 paperback timetables from North Yorkshire.

Robert,
On 19 Feb 2008, at 16:09, Robert N Forsythe wrote:
> Seemingly out of the blue TSO (ex HMSO) produced theirs for the
> timetable change. It is to all intents and purposes the old one but no
> loose map.
>
> What has happened to the loose map? Have we completely lost a paper
> British railway map? Is that what has happened? Arguably even worse
> than
> losing the printed timetable?
>
The loose map, and the smaller maps for each table, were very useful.

There are still national network maps... Now I've joined this group,
it might help if I can sort out my map and timetable collection, but
the ones I have are:

Map and guide to using the National Rail Network (ATOC, 2001). I don't
think this is produced any more, but it features the map commonly seen
in stations, a derivative of the old InterCity map. This shows all
routes but not all stations. You can see this one as a PDF at
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/system/galleries/download/print_maps/NationalRailS\
chematicMap.pdf

Rail map for people with reduced mobility (don't know which year). I
can't find this - I should have 2 or 3 copies of this one somewhere.
It's still being produced and is available from most staffed stations,
and in PDF form at
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/passenger_services/disabled_passengers/accessibili\
ty_maps.htm

The old fold out map from the National Timetable is at
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/system/galleries/download/print_maps/uk.pdf
   with the maps from the reverse side (and others) at
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/tocs_maps/maps/network_rail_maps.htm
   . Obviously, if you want to print them out, a large format printer
is better if you can get hold of one.

--
Anzir Boodoo, PhD Student
The Institute for Transport Studies, The University of Leeds, LEEDS
LS2 9JT

--- In Transport_Timetables@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Forsythe"
<robert@...> wrote:
> A very good question and one we would love to know the answer to.
> LT/TfL rather like NS in Holland is quite good at hidding things
> temptingly behind glass. I am glad to hear that these have been re-
> issued. There was a very good Green Line office in London (near
> Victoria?) which I know of by repute from friends who have been in
> saying that everything is on display and readily available.

Not necessarily talking about London bus guides, but the local library
might have a supply of them. I know my library gives out bus timetables
for the operators in our area.

Peter

--- In Transport_Timetables@yahoogroups.com, "James Fairchild"
<jamesfairchild@...> wrote:
>
> I see that new versions of all four (NE, NW, SE, SW) have recently
been
> issued (plus central).
>
> Does anyone know of anywhere that these can be picked up from a
rack?
>
A very good question and one we would love to know the answer to.
LT/TfL rather like NS in Holland is quite good at hidding things
temptingly behind glass. I am glad to hear that these have been re-
issued. There was a very good Green Line office in London (near
Victoria?) which I know of by repute from friends who have been in
saying that everything is on display and readily available.

I see that new versions of all four (NE, NW, SE, SW) have recently been
issued (plus central).

Does anyone know of anywhere that these can be picked up from a rack?
I have seen them (through glass) at both Turnpike Lane and Euston bus
stations, but at the former there was no employee there to give one to,
and at Euston there was a queue and I didn't think my hobby (aka
obsession) was worth potential embarrassment asking for all four.

Robert - many thanks for setting up this group, it promises to be very
interesting.

Regards


James
http://www.typg.org.uk

Leeds & North London

>Nice that IKB got the last word with his bridge over the Tamar at
>Saltash graceing the final cover.
>
>But is it the final version? Don't the HMSO (or whatever it's called
>nowadays) produce a version, as do the Middleton Press.
The position is that Network Rail spent 2006/07 telling everyone that
the summer 07 issue expiring December was the last. Towards the end of
validity it became apparent that Middleton Press would produce a
substitute and that they had bought the old ABC had become OAG rail
guide.

Middleton's is all the content of the old NR timetable but laid out two
columns landscape format. It is therefore very much less bulky but is a
challenge to read.
>
Seemingly out of the blue TSO (ex HMSO) produced theirs for the
timetable change. It is to all intents and purposes the old one but no
loose map.

What has happened to the loose map? Have we completely lost a paper
British railway map? Is that what has happened? Arguably even worse than
losing the printed timetable?

I should love to know who in the TSO took on the timetable and why? I
have done my best to contact them but in the not untypical manner of
21st century Britain my missives have been unanswered.
--
yours sincerely Robert N Forsythe
www.forsythe.demon.co.uk

Nice that IKB got the last word with his bridge over the Tamar at
Saltash graceing the final cover.

But is it the final version? Don't the HMSO (or whatever it's called
nowadays) produce a version, as do the Middleton Press.

Regards,
Peter

In less than a day, 16 members have signed onto Transport Timetables.
Wonderful. Welcome. I have uploaded a couple of files into the files
area to show what sort of thing might be done. One of them is my Open
Questions file for my BR timetable history book. So it might be a bit
opaque but if there is anything in there you think you can throw some
light on do chat. The other is a little piece I would originally have
written for the Paperchase about Great Britain rail timetable covers
and their politicisation? I have many shorts like this that could be
uploaded if people think they would interest.

Another good area for chat would be were do you go to read about
transport timetables? I think one of the sources at present is Buses
magazine which always seems to give the subject far more attention than
the railway magazines. What do folk think?

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the Transport_Timetables
group.

   File        : /TTbookquestions.doc
   Uploaded by : robert_forsytheuk <robert@...>
   Description :

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Transport_Timetables/files/TTbookquestions.doc

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.htmlfiles

Regards,

robert_forsytheuk <robert@...>

If ever I was stuck on the proverbial desert island, the one book I'd
choose would have to be a Bradshaw; probably the one for the summer of
1955.

Regards,
Peter

Hi,

I'm a former Railway Studies student, and still in York.  Interested in
corporate design as pertaining to the railways, and maps and timetables
as marketing tools.  I have a couple of shelves of old NRTs in the
spare room and various emphemera from a recent couple of years spent
travelling round the UK by train/bus/boot on a research project.

Regards,

Andy Bickerstaffe

Just found this group via the Railway-Studies forum.

One of my interests is BR timetables; not necessarily the timetables
themselves, but the interpretation and analysis of the train services.
How they change over time etc; well I find it fascinating anyway!

Regards,
Peter

Just found this group via the Railway-Studies forum.

One of my interests is BR timetables; not necessarily the timetables
themselves, but the interpretation and analysis of the train services.
How they change over time etc; well I find it fascinating anyway!

Regards,
Peter

Folks may be interested on clicking on these:

http://www.railwayprintsociety.org.uk/Newsletter%20sample%20article%20-%
20Time%20%20the%20Timetable.pdf

http://www.york.ac.uk/inst/irs/irshome/papers/ephemera.htm

(our full bio is at
http://www.forsythe.demon.co.uk/bibliography_complete.htm  )

I have a particular interest in Dutch printed transport publicity. A
proportion appears in my book From Tilbury to Tyneside. I am always on
the look out for more and an active traveller in the Netherlands
willing to recover this sort of piece would be welcome. The Dutch
themselves seem a bit cagy about giving this sort of thing away. An
enquiry is often referred to the internet or the email rejected
possibly because the mail servers (Veolia for instance) are set to
reject foreign domains.

Folks: if you did not realise, I deal extensively in duplicate
transport timetables to our collection. We have a large selection. Look
on ebay and www.specialistauctions.com at robertatforsythe . It should
quickly become apparent what we offer.

I have written Are we on time? A history of BR Timetables 1948-1997. It
is 12 chapters, 70,000 words, 410 scans. It looks at the whole rounded
subject but the first two chapters offer a never before published
catalogue of the main BR timetable books, what the public to capture
every passenger train. After 28 tries, I still do not have a publisher.
Thing is, the subject demands good design. It would be laughed at it if
looks for. So if you are a publisher or a patron of these things, make
contact.

Would folk like to confirm what I think/know that both these British
Shire counties have abandoned their one volume productions recently? It
was a year or so back with Northumberland and last year for the very
attractive and useful Cumbria production.

I wonder how many folk realise there is still a one volume printed
timetable issued by Scotrail. It is very good it still exists. The
print run is low and it is free and hard to get. Mine arrived after
pestering on the 18th Feb 08 and it was valid December 08. Internally
the maps are too small on the eye and the type very blocky. Not good
compared either with the old BR easyreader or the current TfL types.
Even a simple matter like using blue instead of black would make easier
reading.