Hi all.  I'm pretty much completely new to the sound area, but I have been
nominated as the sound techie on a very low budget indie film.  I am curious, as
far as little indies go, which do you all think would be a better sound
recording media in terms of quality and ease of use?  MiniDisc or normal
Analogue Tape?

Thanks Much for the input.

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Hi all.  I'm pretty much completely new to the sound area, but I have been
nominated as the sound techie on a very low budget indie film.  I am curious, as
far as little indies go, which do you all think would be a better sound
recording media in terms of quality and ease of use?  MiniDisc or normal
Analogue Tape?

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Hi Roberto

AMPS was born out of a need to talk!  Previously, here, in the UK, Production
Sound people rarely got a chance to talk to Post Sound people to exchange views
and ideas.  This has been AMPS greatest success as an organisation.  As for
being 'grey' - well, age does that to you!  I am an ageing Production Mixer and
I administer the AMPS WebSite with the help of my son.  We do our best to make
it interesting and informative but we would welcome suggestions (nice ones!) 
There are no rules nor FAQs as yet but I will do my best to answer any
questions.

Sandy MacRae

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At 23:13 10/03/1999 +0000, you wrote:
>As an aside, what level of distinction must one reach in order to join
>AMPS?  The website is a little grey on the matter, but seeing the roll
>of honour there, I would assume fairly distinguished is the answer?

I was asking that myself also.
And, is there a Faq ? Or rules ?


Thanxz

Roberto van Eijden, Amsterdam

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Hello,

I'm sorry but I just wanted to mail Roberto and I made a mistake. I didn't
pay attention to the reply-adress Sorry.

Jef


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Greetings all,

I've just subscribed to the list, and judging by Myles' last posting
it's a little quiet, so I have a question or two to start something off,
probably one for the re-recording (I'll have to get used to that) mixers
& assistants.

I'd like to know people's views on the Soundtracs DPC II in a large
format (64/96 fader) as a desk for mixing high end TV drama.  It's one
of the runners in a group of the usual suspects (SSL Avant, Logic DFC,
Harrison w/ digital engine) for a new console at our place.  Obviously
it's a lot cheaper then the others, and there are some obvious signs of
this, but it does seem like an extraordinarily capable desk for the
money, and if Mags bought two, well, it must be worthy of some
consideration.  Comments on the metering, faders (one cause of concern
for me), routing, monitoring & automation would be most welcome, and
also how the touch screens & "soft" knobs are to work with in real life.
Come to think of it, how do the EQ & dynamics sound? :-) Not asking
much, I know.  I had a brief demo at Soundtracs, but the sound of the
thing was a little difficult to judge on their monitoring in the demo
room.

All views you might hold would be most welcome.

As an aside, what level of distinction must one reach in order to join
AMPS?  The website is a little grey on the matter, but seeing the roll
of honour there, I would assume fairly distinguished is the answer?

Anyhow, I'm looking forward to some fruitful natterings on this list,
hope to hear from you soon.

Jerome O'Donohoe, cunningly hidden in Soho.



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At 14:45 10/03/99 +0100, you wrote:
>
>Hello there.
>
>Just a simple question...
>How many people are actually on this List ?
>
>Roberto van Eijden, Amsterdam.
>

Ikke,


Jef


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As of 10th March, we have 52 members on this list.  It's been steadily
growing since it's inception a couple of months ago.  All we need to do
is start talking :-)

Myles

On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Roberto van Eijden wrote:

>
>Hello there.
>
>Just a simple question...
>How many people are actually on this List ?
>
>Roberto van Eijden, Amsterdam.
>
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---------------
Myles MacRae
Information System Engineering
Imperial College London



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Hello there.

Just a simple question...
How many people are actually on this List ?

Roberto van Eijden, Amsterdam.

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Hello everybody,
Can anyone please send me a schematic diagram for the POWER SUPPLY of
SENNHEISER 416T.
I'm trying to construct one.
Thank you very much.
Emmanuel H. Clemente
Tel.no.: (632)631 97 42 Residence
Fax.no.:(632)725 53 97 ask for tone

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Can you be more specific about your undergrad request? I might be able to help
you myself....I have Quark/Photoshop exp, I am currently preparing to do the
sound for a 16mm film, (my second to date)  have studio experience in Digital
and Analogue recording....+.

let me know.

Rob. Entwistle

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Hello everybody,
Can anyone please send me a schematic diagram for the POWER SUPPLY of
SENNHEISER 416T.
I'm trying to construct one.
Thank you very much.
Emmanuel H. Clemente
Tel.no.: (632)631 97 42 Residence
Fax.no.:(632)725 53 97 ask for tone

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In a message dated 2/14/99 9:43:23 AM, you wrote:

<<I am looking around at the moment to replace my Sennheiser 816 gun mic with

something as directional but lighter and quieter. The options seem to be

Sennheisers K6 + ME67 (Electret) or Beyers MC 837 PV . Has anyone

experienced using these mics or know of >>

Sennheiser MKH 70. I am very happy with mine.


Regards,

Dean

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Hi Judy and Carl,


I used 416 and 816 mics from 1975 onwards.

I tried a MKH70 when they appeared circa 1982.
I struggled and tried in every situation thinking that it would be the
best thing ever and all I heard was ground reflections, athough this
mic sounded better in a studio when you did not use it in a windshield!

I'm working on the basis that a drama mixer like myself listens to so much
dialogue that you realise when you are hearing what you really want.

When I saw in Studio Sound mention of the AKG CK68 I ordered one and
whe it arrived I was working on an American series and spending a lot of
time
on beaches.

I found to my amazement that this mic offered better rejection of sea noise
plus the
detail in the voice quality was better than I had ever heard.

The CK68 was a hybrid electret and the newer CK69 is a true condenser with a
flatter response.

Sure, noise factor is no big deal unless you are in good studio and then you
can hear it,
but these mics despite their lower cost than Sennheiser offer very good
noise figures.

Another backup story:

A good friend who is a very experienced feature post mixer (but not a very
experienced location
person) has great ears and can listen to something and say - yes there is a
peak at 1.5kHz
said to me last year he had bought a CK69 and found it the most accurate
dialogue mic
he had heard!!!  He confirmed my humble opinion!!

It soundd natural, detailed and has no quality that you would otherwise
define as bright, up-front
or whatever. It just sound right to me!!

Thats it for now.

Regards

Mike

www.mikewestgatesound.webnz.co,nz


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Mike Westgate wrote:
>
>  Try the AKG CK69/C480 combination.
>
>  It offers:    1- value for money
>                   2- one of the quietest mics available
>                   3- long or short shotgun modes
>                   4- remarkable sound quality
>
>  I've been using this setup for some years of episodic drama
>  and it takes a lot of beating
>
>  Regards]
>
>  Mike Westgate
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/amps-talk
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Hi Mike:

Your comments on the AKG 69/C460 are much appreciated.  As I am sure you
are aware, there is a wide selection of professional shot gun mikes
available to sound mixers today.

In the past it was the Sen 416 and 418 mikes that were the basic shot
guns used on feature films and other professional productions.  Now we
have AKG, Audio Technica, Sanken, Sony, Neuman and several others.

How do we determine which is best???  Do we make our decision purely on
technical specs, (sensitivity, noise, frequency response, tight pattern
etc.) or are we forced to make A-B tests on the lot?  The A-B tests are
of course, subjective and in my opinion really does not provide a really
worthwhile method.  Oh sure, I've heard mixers comment about this or
that mike sounding "warm" and  "very smooth", but is this something that
the audiance will percieve?  Are we just kidding ourselves?

On location for a feature recently my mike case was stolen.  There was
no time to hold up production until I ordered a rental.  I was able to
purchase an Audio Technicia 635 locally and used it for three days until
I received the Sen rentals.

The AT 635 cost me $250. (brand new). In listening the the dailies when
the sen and the AT were intercut, I could not tell much difference.  OK,
the Sen has a little more output, but other than that, what am I paying
more that a thousand dollars more for???????????

When my boom man and I did an A-B with the two mikes side by side, we
found the two mikes had very similar directionl patterns.  If the Sen
has less noise, it was not obvious.  What's all this crap about noise
anyway?  All the condensesrs are VERY quiet.  Besides, most feature
films have a least 50% music bg and then there are the fx.  It seems
that with ambiance, fx and music any noise is completely covered. If
the audiance dosen't hear mike noise, why are so paranoid about a VERY
low level internal mike noise anyway?

Am I off base on this.  Your comments would be very much appreciated.

Carl Warner
WARNER LOCATION SOUND SERVICES


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Try the AKG CK69/C480 combination.

It offers:    1- value for money
                  2- one of the quietest mics available
                  3- long or short shotgun modes
                  4- remarkable sound quality

I've been using this setup for some years of episodic drama
and it takes a lot of beating

Regards]

Mike Westgate


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Try the Sennheiser MKH-70. It's not cheap but it's the best long shotgun
available. It's a few inches shorter than the 816 and quite a bit lighter.

Charles Tomaras
tomaras@...
Seattle, WA    USA

----- Original Message -----
From: John Taylor <johntaylorsound@...>
To: Amps Discussion Group <amps-talk@egroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 1999 1:41 AM
Subject: [amps-talk] Replacement For My Senn. 816


I am looking around at the moment to replace my Sennheiser 816 gun mic with
something as directional but lighter and quieter. The options seem to be
Sennheisers K6 + ME67 (Electret) or Beyers MC 837 PV . Has anyone
experienced using these mics or know of other alternatives.

John Taylor

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I am looking around at the moment to replace my Sennheiser 816 gun mic with
something as directional but lighter and quieter. The options seem to be
Sennheisers K6 + ME67 (Electret) or Beyers MC 837 PV . Has anyone
experienced using these mics or know of other alternatives.

John Taylor

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hello all,

It seams to have gone a bit quiet around here.  Lets see if everyone is
still awake :-)

I thought I would tell you about my recent visit to BBC R&D at Kingswood
Warren.  It was organised by our Electrical Enginering Society as part
of their industrial liason scheme.

It turned out to be a really interesting afternoon. They had arranged a
whole series of demonstrations on their current research areas.  These
included Virtual Production, Spectrum Management, Metadata,
Plasma screens, MPEG2 and COFDM and finally Digital Text.

As you may have noticed, there was a surprising lack of development on
the audio side of things.  Which lead me to think about where audio is
heading.  It's already become digital, and the methodology seems to have
now spread through all stages of production.  So what is there left to
do?

I notice that James Moorer, Thomas Stockham and Robert Ingebretsen have
won Oscars this year for their developments of audio editing techniques.
But these seem to be improvements rather than completely new innovation.

Any thoughts?

Myles


ps.  Does anyone know any companies in the London/Maidenhead area that
might have need of a 3rd year undergraduate with an intereset in
mulitmedia technology over the coming summer? :-)


---------------
Myles MacRae
Information System Engineering
Imperial College London



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Charles' observations on HHB tape seem to be common in the industry.
Being a new DAT user, I researched tape and was advised by my more experienced
collegues to try Quantegy.  I have now shot a Feature Film using this tape
with no PCM errors showing on my PD4 so I'm happy with that.  However, the
Record Run bug is worrying...

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I own a Fostex PD-2 and have never had a problem searching back and forth on
a tape. As the PD-2 has the capability of giving a continuous block error
rate display while recording I have on many occasions watched this display
with various brands of tape. I found the HHB Dat tapes to show consistently
higher error rates than other brands. I've been very happy with (believe it
or not) Maxell professional tape. I use their 124minute tapes and experience
very low corrected error rates. All the hype would have you believing HHB
tape is good stuff, but the error display on my machine tells me otherwise.


Charles Tomaras
tomaras@...
Seattle, WA    USA

----- Original Message -----
From: E.H. Clemente <wmpp@...>
To: <amps-talk@egroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 1999 10:20 AM
Subject: [amps-talk] precautionary measure


>With reference to Mr. John Taylor's message.
>
>I also own a Portadat 1000TC.
>In my case, I avoid using the Rew/Rev.button for search. Instead,
>I use the ID SEARCH button (I put ID's manually right after I press my
>unpuase). I find this procedure safer.
>Becuase of the very small mechanism of the DAT, it is very suseptible
>to damage or have a tape damage if the REW/REV is used for search.
>
>I think the problem presented by Mr. Taylor is common for any DAT machine -
>be it consumer type or professional type.
>
>Specially in my case (in the Philippines) where the next service station
>for HHB
>are miles away, I pray that no serious deffects happen to my one and only
>Portadat.
>
>Thanks. Emmanuel Clemente
>
>> Has anyone elsehad any such problems with Stock or Machine ?
>>
>>Many Thanks John Taylor
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
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>>
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With reference to Mr. John Taylor's message.

I also own a Portadat 1000TC.
In my case, I avoid using the Rew/Rev.button for search. Instead,
I use the ID SEARCH button (I put ID's manually right after I press my
unpuase). I find this procedure safer.
Becuase of the very small mechanism of the DAT, it is very suseptible
to damage or have a tape damage if the REW/REV is used for search.

I think the problem presented by Mr. Taylor is common for any DAT machine -
be it consumer type or professional type.

Specially in my case (in the Philippines) where the next service station
for HHB
are miles away, I pray that no serious deffects happen to my one and only
Portadat.

Thanks. Emmanuel Clemente

> Has anyone elsehad any such problems with Stock or Machine ?
>
>Many Thanks John Taylor
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
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>
>


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-------------Forwarded Message-----------------

From:   John Taylor,
To:     Amps Discussion Group, INTERNET:amps-talk@egroups.com

Date:   16/01/99 09:51

RE:     Dropouts on DAT

Here is another "has this happened to you?". On a recent film I had my
first problems of large dropouts on DAT. Currently I  am I  using the HHB
PDR1000TC Mastersync.
The Problem occurred on two occasions having pretensioned the tapes (HHB
R95 of the same batch) at the begining of the day. On the first occasions
45 mins into the tape I went to review something from the last take,
listening in REW/Rev I heard holes in the audio whilst going backwards.
Releasing the Rev button confirmed my worste fears the dropout was in 3 or
4 bits within about 1.5 seconds luckily ! not on any dialogue.  Icarry a
2nd Machine for various uses so changed machine and tape, called HHB and
took the machine for in checks the following day. Some microscopic debris
and diagonal scratches were found on the tape, so the machine was serviced,
and new tape guides fitted. Three days and tapes later exactly the same
thing happened. 45 mins into the tape reviwing the tape I heard droppouts
this time worse and longer. Under pressure to do another take I put the
machine into record and it went into a spasm showed error codes and would
not record.   Back to the spare machine with a new tape, back to HHB the
same microscopic debris and marking on the tape. HHB say stock faults can
be excluded as the problem (although they changed the batch of stock with
no quibble) and mechanical faults were the likely cause but no problems
could be found on the machine. Joints on the software components were
resoldered other things changed and the machine is working fine at present.
I have my suspicions that reviewing the tape may have caused the damage and
created the droppouts to the tape after they wer recorded. Has anyone else
had any such problems with Stock or Machine ?
Many Thanks John Taylor

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Hi all!

        Just got back from a location shoot and please to see that my offspring
has got the ball rolling with this new group.  The original AMPS discussion
area was troubled by bugs in MS Frontpage and as a result was difficult to use.
I was a regular subscriber to the Sound News Group set up by David Barr Yaffe
but lost interest when all the commercials appeared...

I note that David Madigan is not a member of AMPS - please join us, David, we
have a number of 'overseas' members - there is some strength in numbers!

Let's hope we can get some lively professional discussion going here.

Question: Has anyone out there experience a Record Run bug with the Fostex PD4
(Version 2.3) where it does not correctly pick up the TC from the previous
take?  This appears as a random error, meaning it does not happen every time
it goes into Record but I have logged it 5 times out of 40 starts on one roll
on my recent film.  I checked it on my Denecke GR1 and it is usually
+ 0.7 frames and 3 bits although I have seen errors of several frames.
Any clues anybody?

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From: E.H. Clemente <wmpp@...>
>About the NAGRA 4sTC. If the production does not use a camera which records
>(imprint tc) on film.I'm just curious why use it for motion picture when at
>playback (during transfer), I think the time code is actually "converted"
>back to sync pulse on playback resolving. So why not use the standard NAGRA
>4s (fm sync pulse) or the 4.2 instead. For picture synch,even using the
>time code in an avid suite, they also synch picture and sound with the
>visual closing of the clapper stick.
>
>I remember that the 4sTC was designed for TV use.


Two reasons to use a 4STC or other timecode recorder,

1) Most mixers own their own recorders and tend to have timecode equipment
so that they can work on wide variety of projects that do and don't require
timecode.   Renting a non timecode machine would be a financial burden on
the mixer and the production would still end up with same quality audio.
2) The last four features that I have recorded that have been cut on film
have had the location timecode stripped on the edge of the thee 16 or 35mm
mag.  After picture editing this timecode has produced an edit decision list
for audio post saving a week or two of manual reconforming of the location
audio.

Cheers

David Madigan
davidm@...


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Hello Everybody!

As Myles said: "talk", so talk (ask) i'll do.

About the NAGRA 4sTC. If the production does not use a camera which records
(imprint tc) on film.I'm just curious why use it for motion picture when at
playback (during transfer), I think the time code is actually "converted"
back to sync pulse on playback resolving. So why not use the standard NAGRA
4s (fm sync pulse) or the 4.2 instead. For picture synch,even using the
time code in an avid suite, they also synch picture and sound with the
visual closing of the clapper stick.

I remember that the 4sTC was designed for TV use.

Thank you everybody, anybody.
Emmanuel H. Clemente

  At 12:29 PM 1/11/99 +0000, you wrote:
>Hello there,
>
>Happy new year to everyone.  I see we now have over 30 subscribers to
>this list now so I hope people will start talking :-)
>
>
>Bye
>
>Myles
>
>---------------
>Myles MacRae
>Information System Engineering
>Imperial College London
>
>
>
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Hello there,

Happy new year to everyone.  I see we now have over 30 subscribers to
this list now so I hope people will start talking :-)


Bye

Myles

---------------
Myles MacRae
Information System Engineering
Imperial College London



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>My name is Myles MacRae.  I'm currently the moderator of this mailing
>list.   I see that we now have 14 members (not bad for 2 days work) so
>could it be time to set the ball rolling?  How about people introducing
>themselves? it's all up to you.
>


Hello all,

I've been a sound recordist for twenty years, the first eight years working
for TV stations in Australia and New Zealand. Since 1986 I've been
freelancing in Auckland, NZ.

The market is small here so I work on anything film or tape, but I usually
get to record a couple of feature length
productions a year.

I'm not a memeber of AMPS and we don't have an equivalent organisation here
in New Zealand.   I have been a member of the New Zealand Film and Video
Technicians Guild for many years and am currently the President.  The Guild
has had a good history of Sound Recordists in executive and chair/presidents
roles.

Currently I'm working on a feature with a director who likes to work two or
three days a week and although we only get paid for the days on the job,its
a refreshing way of filming drama. My kit is a StellaDat, SQN 4SIV,
Stellavox AMI 48, Sennheiser MKH50's and 60's, Ambient booms and
Lectrosonics UHF radio mics. A declared commercial interest, I'm the local
Ambient representative.

Cheers

David Madigan

davidm@...
president@...

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Hello,

My name is Myles MacRae.  I'm currently the moderator of this mailing
list.   I see that we now have 14 members (not bad for 2 days work) so
could it be time to set the ball rolling?  How about people introducing
themselves? it's all up to you.

I'm currently doing a joint degree in computing and electrical
engineering at Imperial College London.  I've been involved with AMPS
ever since my father asked me to help out with the AMPS website a couple
of years ago.

Bye

Myles

---------------
Myles MacRae
Information System Engineering
Imperial College London


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