Hello,

   Well I spent the day on CSX around Sand Patch and Mance, and then
   Cumberland. Here are some of the sightings today on CSX.

   1. Q-641-15 (BUCU) CSX AC60CW's 670, and 671, by the looks of things
      this may have been their 1st run, as the both of them were very
      very clean, no dirt at all. Passed Sand Patch around 11:00am.

   2. Sitting in the Helper pocket at Sand Patch was a chop nose GP-7
     in South Central Tennesee paint.

   3. Q-217-16 BNSF C44-9W 4543, and CSX (Ex-CR still in CR paint)
      SD50 86??.

    That was about it for the interesting sightings on CSX. About 9
   trains were seen all day. I never made it to the CSX Cumberland
   shop tour, but I heard that I didn't miss anything that it was a
   big let down. Went over to the Western Maryland Scenic, they had
   the Celebrate the Century express Amtrak U.S. Postal train there,
   and where it was parked you couldn't get any good photos of it.
   Well once it got dark I headed for home. Well when I arrived
   Conemaugh,Pa. where I live PIOI-5A was waiting to see if he would
   get a helper, which he didn't because there weren't any around,
   so he went (Single) meaning without helpers. So here is what the
   PIOI-5A has for power.

   1. PIOI-5A PRR SD60I 6723, Wisconsin Central SD45 7526, and PRR
     SD50 5441.

    Well that's all for now from Conemaugh,Pa.

   Tony K, NS/CRsmurf
   M.P. 273
   NS Pittsburgh Line

train ave in cleveland 's west side.

cleveland line

i will try to find out

Rob Richardson wrote:

> Where is Cloggsville located?  Is there a good spot to watch it from?

	 Fulton Road passes right over Cloggville just west of where the
NKP passed over the Big Four and the Rapid Transit. I have found it
easiest to park on the side street east off of Fulton just north of the
bridge over the tracks and walk out onto the Fulton Road bridge. There
is a cemetary right there too and you can park in there and walk to the
back where the fence has been beaten down and you will be right at the
NS (ex NKP) tracks.

	 Train Avenue (can't beat that name!) parallels the old Big Four
under the south end of the Fulton Avenue bridge.

	 Mark Nilges
	 Gibsonville, NC

Brian,

No need to apologize!  W&LE is definitely on topic!  (Unfortunately, I can't
help with the timetable, though.)

Your friendly neighborhood moderator,
Rob

Rtar,

Where is Cloggsville located?  Is there a good spot to watch it from?

Rob

Do not know if this is correct on this list, but here goes:
I am look for a W&LE Employee timetable.  Please respond off list.  If I have
affended anyone, please accept my apoligies.  Brian

Mark K Nilges wrote:

> From: Mark K Nilges <railfan1@...>
>
> > What is W&LE's line through Bedford?
>
>         A W&LE employee timetable from 1992 lists this as the Cleveland
> Line. In the N&W/NS days it was the Canton District.
>
>         Mark Nilges
>         Gibsonville, NC
>
> > Community email addresses:
>   Post message: clevelandrails@onelist.com
>   Subscribe:    clevelandrails-subscribe@onelist.com
>   Unsubscribe:  clevelandrails-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>   List owner:   clevelandrails-owner@onelist.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>   http://www.onelist.com/community/clevelandrails

Hello,

    As I'am writing this ATPI-4 is sitting in Conemaugh,Pa. (Johnstown)
   with the following locomotives as it's power.

   1. PRR C40-8W 8352
   2. BNSF C44-9W 4877
   3. BNSF C44-9W 4982
   4. SP AC44CW 240
   5. UP AC44CW 7168

   The ATPI-4 made about a 50 car pick up in Conemaugh,Pa. (Woodvale
   yard) he is ready to depart here now, but is having marker
   attention, so it may be a little while yet before he leaves
   Conemaugh,Pa. I'am writing this at 4:00pm.

   Tony K, NS/CRsmurf
   M.P. 273 - Conemaugh,Pa.
   NS Pittsburgh Line

Greetings!

A couple of messages I thought I posted never showed up here.  Has anyone else
been having trouble with lost messages?  Or am I being as idiotically
absent-minded as usual?

Your friendly neighborhood moderator,
Rob

> What is W&LE's line through Bedford?

	 A W&LE employee timetable from 1992 lists this as the Cleveland
Line. In the N&W/NS days it was the Canton District.

	 Mark Nilges
	 Gibsonville, NC

> cloggsville is an interchange point for the flats industrial and NS, and
> W&LE.

	 Is this a recent development? About a year ago a CR crew
working at Linndale Yard told me they interchanged with the Flats
Industrial at Clark Ave.

	 Something I've been wondering about too... has the "new" W&LE
ever used their trackage rights from Wellington to Knob? The "old" W&LE
had these rights as a shortcut to get between Cleveland and Toledo.

	 Mark Nilges
	 Gibsonville, NC

I have read in several places about U23B 2391 (and another
unit?) used by Whitestone Transportation in Twinsburg, Ohio but in the
Oct/Nov/Dec issue of The Railroad Press is a report that leaves me
wondering about it. On page 57 in the Locomotive Notes II section is a
mention of the unit including the statement "...faces West, operates
from Twinsburg to Toledo." I thought the unit was used to switch cars at
the facility in Twinsburg but the above statement makes it seem that it
is used on a road train over NS. Does it in fact travel between
Twinsburg and Toledo and if so, how often?

	 Mark Nilges
	 Gibsonville, NC

Went up to the track to do a little homework tonight around 5:30 PM. I went
to NY MP 352 (Macedon, NY) and I just missed a Westbound Train, and as I was
arriving at the tracks a CSX Eastbound Light engine move passed with about
8-12 units total. Included in the mix was a CR/CSX GP15-1, between 3-6 CSX GE
AC Widecabs and a few other CSX units. If anybody saw this please E-Mail me.
Here's what else I saw;

1.  WB WARO-16          Dead at MP 354                          2:53 PM
     CR/CSX  2797        GP38-2      Ex. CR 8237
     CR/CSX  2793        GP38-2      Ex. CR 8226

2.  WB TV-9                 Track 1 at MP 352                       5:57 PM
     CR/CSX  7477        C32-8       Ex. CR 661?
     CSX     6048        GP40-2
     CSX     7668        C40-8W

3.  EB WALY-14          Track 2 at MP 352                       6:14 PM
     CR/CSX  2742        GP38-2      Ex. CR 8109
     CR/CSX  2794        GP38-2      Ex. CR 8228

4.  WB AMT-281          Track 1 at MP 352                       6:24 PM
     AMTK        714         P32AC-DM

  Thats all, there was another Westbound coming after the Amtrak Train, but
due to the weather, I was forced to leave.

  CSabresXr1@...

cloggsville is an interchange point for the flats industrial and NS, and
W&LE.

yes the cv/rt are one i live by the penny line. by milepost 110. bedford
ohio.and the milepost12,on theW&LE.

today we got out of school at 1200 and i headed for lake ave at 130 pm and
saw 2 trains

csx tv-5 or 7 at 130 pm on track ? i couldnt tell cause i saw the rear of
this hotshot
csx westbound tv-?? with csx 8489,csx 8500,csx 4449,and csx 7575 at 145 pm on
track 1

then my mom had to go back to work so we left
csrockx@...

CSX runs about 65-70 through there and NS about 20-30.

csrockx@...

I believe the four track is now the CSX ex-Conrail lakefront line.  The track
  next to that is probably the NS ex-NKP which I think is the Cleveland District.

Nate

Hello all,

  I live in Maple Hts  also and regularly sit at Rockside, McCracken and
Berea watching the trains. I was recently at Cloggsville and can't believe
all the changes there. What is going on there? All new track and what looks
like a new yard. One construction guy said he thought it was a new yard for
Cuyahoga Valley Industrial RR. Any thoughts? Any ideas where I can get some
detailed track maps of the flats area of Cleveland? Am trying to model the
Cleveland area on BAHN and the only area I don't have alot of detail on is
the flats area. Any help would be appreciated. I already have CR ZTS maps
but they don't have much on the flats area.

Dan Kosko
dak@...

Answer to Q1:

River Terminal


Louis H. Niederlander
Manager, Engineering Technical Services
Electronic Products Group
The North American Mfg. Co.
LouNiederlander@...
216-271-6000 ext368



-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Richardson [mailto:therobs@...]
Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 10:37 PM
To: clevelandrails@onelist.com
Subject: [clevelandrails] What railroads? What lines?


Greetings!

Here are my first two questions to the list:

1.  What railroads operate in the Greater Cleveland area?  I can think of
seven:
NS
CSX
Wheeling & Lake Erie
Newburgh & South Shore
Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad
Cuyahoga Valley Railroad
Flats Industrial Railroad

I know the Cuyahoga Valley Railroad from gondolas marked CUVA, and a
volunteer at the scenic railroad's terminus in Independece told me that the
two operations are different.  The Flats Industrial RR I only know from a
photo in the PD of a switch engine.

Did I leave any out?

2.  What are the official names of the main lines in the Cleveland area?  In
particular, I think the one running through Bedford is NS's Cleveland Line,
right?  What is W&LE's line through Bedford?  Also, I work in Wickliffe,
with six tracks visible through conference room windows.  Apparently, those
are a four-track line that parallels Lake Erie into (through?) downtown
Cleveland, and a two-track line on the south side of the four-track line
that comes in from the southwest.  What are those lines?

Thanks very much!

Your friendly neighborhood moderator,
Rob

> Did I leave any out?

	 Has the River Terminal been officially merged into the Cuyahoga
Valley?

> Also, I work in Wickliffe, with six tracks visible through conference
> room windows.  Apparently, those are a four-track line that parallels
> Lake Erie into (through?) downtown Cleveland, and a two-track line on
> the south side of the four-track line that comes in from the > southwest.
> What are those lines?

	 CSX ex Conrail exx PC exxx NYC on the north and NS ex NKP on the
south.

	 Mark Nilges
	 Gibsonville, NC

> From: SD80Mac411@...
>
> Were is Collinwood Yard.

	 Collinwood is on the east side of Cleveland. Take E152nd St
south off the Shoreway (I90) and it will take you right over the yard
between the diesel house and the main part of the yard. The back shops
which were right along the Shoreway service road and were the main
diesel repair facility for the NYC are long gone however the huge
coaling tower is still standing west of E152nd.

	 Mark Nilges
	 Gibsonville, NC

Were is Collinwood Yard.
I am not from Cleveland but I think It is a COOL Town.....Just below
Pittsburgh On My List...I might add

Greetings!

Here are my first two questions to the list:

1.  What railroads operate in the Greater Cleveland area?  I can think of seven:
NS
CSX
Wheeling & Lake Erie
Newburgh & South Shore
Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad
Cuyahoga Valley Railroad
Flats Industrial Railroad

I know the Cuyahoga Valley Railroad from gondolas marked CUVA, and a volunteer
at the scenic railroad's terminus in Independece told me that the two operations
are different.  The Flats Industrial RR I only know from a photo in the PD of a
switch engine.

Did I leave any out?

2.  What are the official names of the main lines in the Cleveland area?  In
particular, I think the one running through Bedford is NS's Cleveland Line,
right?  What is W&LE's line through Bedford?  Also, I work in Wickliffe, with
six tracks visible through conference room windows.  Apparently, those are a
four-track line that parallels Lake Erie into (through?) downtown Cleveland, and
a two-track line on the south side of the four-track line that comes in from the
southwest.  What are those lines?

Thanks very much!

Your friendly neighborhood moderator,
Rob

nope  the flames stopped just before I clicked the pic. I tried to time it
out so the flames would be in the pic, but it didn't work out. It only
happens with the GE locos, when the turbocharger is gone. The flame is from
the extra fuel that hasen't been burned in the diesel engine. Very rare.
There is a train with flames on Conrail's Hot Spots West made by Pentrex.
I've personally seen it twice. I have shot one on video that was on CR C40-8W
6123, but it was starting from a stop.

  CsabresXr1@...

Greetings!

I am pleased by the response to the creation of the ClevelandRails discussion
group on OneList!  Allow me to introduce myself.  I am Rob Richardson, your
friendly neighborhood moderator.  I live in Bedford, southeast of Cleveland, and
I have been a resident of Maple Heights and Bedford all of my 43 years.  My
interest in trains stemmed from my family's frequent visits to the Willis Rd.
picnic area of Bedford Reservation when I was a boy.  The driveway into that
picnic area runs under NS's Cleveland Line.  Whenever a train came, we'd all run
over and watch it and count the cars.  I loved the railroad names on the boxcars
-- Columbia & Cowlitz, Bangor & Aroostook, and so on.  I am now interested in
railroad operations, signaling, switching, dispatching, and so on, but I know
very little about it, so I created this list to have my very own personal supply
of information!

Please introduce yourselves to the list, so we'll all know each other!

I hope to hear from you soon, and I'm sure I'll meet some of you trackside!

Rob

WOW.....You saw flames.
Ive heard AND Saw from Pics. Just never got to see it in Person.
Do you have any pics???

Sorry for all you that joined CSX-Alb-ServiceLane@onelist.com, something
happened and it was deleted off the server. For all of you who are wondering,
it is now CSXs-Alb-ServiceLane@onelist.com. Sorry about that, and onelist has
assured me that all problems have been corrected

  CSabresXr1@...

Went up this morning (Wayneport, NY / NY MP 356)to see if I could catch the
Lake Shore Limited. I did. After Lunch I decided to head back up again,
here's all the days sightings!

1.  EB AMT-286      Track 2 at MP 356                           10:25 AM
     AMTK        711     P32AC-DM

2.  WB ML-401?      Track 1 at MP 356                           10:37 AM
     CSX     9007    C44-9W  Engine displayed flames out of Exaust stack
     CR/CSX  8838    SD40-2      Ex. CR 6462

3.  EB AMT-48/448       Track 2 at MP 356                           10:43 AM
     AMTK        63      P42-9DC
     AMTK        402     F40PH
     Had 5 Roadrailers

4.  EB ML-268?      Track 2 at MP 356                           1:23 PM
     No Power seen

5.  EB TOMT-9           Track 2 at MP 356                           1:35 PM
     CSX     7703    C40-8W
     CSX     7812    C40-8W

6.  WB AMT-63       Track 1 at MP 356                           1:40 PM
     AMTK        287     F40PH

7.  EB TV-6?            Track 2 at MP 356                           1:50 PM
     CR/CSX  5955    B40-8   Ex. CR 5071
     LMS     701     C40-8W
     CSX     8210    SD40-2

8.  WB ML-433?      Track 1 at MP 356                           2:03 PM
     CSX     7688    C40-8W
     CSX     8556    SD50
     CSX     80?7    SD40-2  Either 8037 or 8067

9.  EB TV-304           Track 2 at MP 356                           2:19 PM
     CSX     618     AC6000CW
     CSX     8205    SD40-2

  Not bad for a sunday!

  CSabresXr1@...