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Reputation device   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #6081 of 7047 |
Re: Reputation device

--- In decentralization@y..., Todd Boyle <tboyle@r...> wrote:

> But the key thing is, who the heck do you think owns your
> reputation? Answer: the community, not YOU. People working on
> reputation frameworks surely recognize this fact, on some level,
>
> Todd

As one of those people ... ownership and property rights are both
social contracts. A framework of reputations owned by a
monolithic "community" would be the worst possible combination of a
small town and Orwellian nation-state. The act of observation alters
that being observed. A history of observations inevitably constrains
future actions.

A multiplicity of "communities", decentralized and diverse, is an
acceptable alternative provided that, (a) individuals explicitly
enter into contracts (social and legal) that define their reputation
in each community, (b) there is horizontal audit transparency of
reputation data (i.e. no special rights for community owners,
affiliates or law enforcement), and (c) there is sufficient financial
and cultural separation between communities to incent meaningful
choice (a market) in social contracts.

In this context, "community" = country, state, county, town, company,
audience, market, industry sector, discussion group, search engine,
weblog or other shared-risk ecosystem.

Decentralized = geographical + policy decentralization.

100% transparency does not lead to loss of privacy. 100%
transparency leads to loss of speech. All speech and action becomes
part of a continuous game of posturing, creative writing and mediocre
(not even amateur) performance art.

Community boundaries segment risk, define topology and vary
feedback. They are necessary for evolution, learning and behavior
change (historical role of reputation systems).

Moving faster does not make time less important. It makes distance
more important, as an alternate unit of separation.

Rich


--
http://b8d.net




Fri Sep 6, 2002 10:52 pm

persaur
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Message #6081 of 7047 |
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The individual in society might be viewed as the subject of impressions in the minds of other individuals. All of those impressions are the sovereign province...
Todd Boyle
toddboyle
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Aug 22, 2002
11:09 pm

... As one of those people ... ownership and property rights are both social contracts. A framework of reputations owned by a monolithic "community" would be...
persaur
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Sep 6, 2002
10:52 pm

... I am sympathetic to the concerns you're pursuing; however, how do you propose to prevent a thief from moving from community to community? It seems we may...
Todd Boyle
toddboyle
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Sep 7, 2002
3:48 am

... Hash: SHA1 ... Easy... you don't prevent it. If you want to "move from community to community" you have to create a new nym/identity. When you create a...
burton@...
kevinallenbu...
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Sep 8, 2002
6:15 am

... Any reputation framework that ever tried to coerce anybody to disclose *anything* would have a hard time getting traction these days. The trend is going...
Todd Boyle
toddboyle
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Sep 8, 2002
8:16 pm

There is a great deal of research being done by a Toshio Yamagishi at Hokkaido University. His web page is here ...
jito23
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Sep 8, 2002
9:45 pm

Joi has posted a link to the Toshio Yamagishi paper on his blog, at http://joi.ito.com/archives/2002/06/22/met_toshio_yamagishi.html - Lucas...
Lucas Gonze
lgonze@...
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Sep 9, 2002
1:27 pm

... Ok, let's take a look at this in detail, because it's a good and important point. A system where a Nym (essentially a limited liability identity) can be...
Vinay
vinay_kumar_...
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Sep 13, 2002
3:44 pm

... Per Joi's original post on Yamagishi Toshio's research, a reputation system can only work in some contexts. If the cost of a theft is lower than the cost...
Lucas Gonze
lucas_gonze
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Sep 13, 2002
4:53 pm

Recall, I suggested this requirement... ... Vinay said, among other things, ... Lucas said, among other things, ... That's debatable. At least, in real...
Todd Boyle
toddboyle
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Sep 13, 2002
6:33 pm

... Reputations are not monolithic entities: your reputation is made up of the opinions of the many, many people you've interacted with. They, *individually*...
vinay_kumar_gupta
vinay_kumar_...
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Sep 7, 2002
4:27 am

... To expand a bit: each individual owns a set of opinions about the rest of the world. Opinions about other individuals. Opinions about rival reputation ...
vinay_kumar_gupta
vinay_kumar_...
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Sep 7, 2002
5:22 am

... It's worth noting that this is a fait accompli, because the single, overwhelmingly powerful source is DNA. Furthermore, because the primary key is not an...
Clay Shirky
cshirky
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Sep 8, 2002
3:58 pm

Clay Shirky wrote, ... At best (or worst, depending on how you look at it) this solves the problem locally. But if you wanted to make it work remotely you'd be...
Miles Sabin
milessabin
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Sep 8, 2002
4:30 pm

... UNfortunately, the declining cost of DNA readers is likely to be accompanied by a declining cost to duplicate the source db record carriers :). I would...
chris_smith_canada
chris_smith_...
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Sep 9, 2002
3:44 pm

... Hash: SHA1 Clay Shirky <clay@...> writes: <snip/> ... <snip/> Well.. This scenario doesn't really keep me awake at night. Most reputation systems...
burton@...
kevinallenbu...
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Sep 12, 2002
11:18 pm

... There are three problems with this: 1) decentralized anonymous reputation systems are harder to implement (both technically and financially) than...
Fen Labalme
bcatch
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Sep 13, 2002
1:54 am

... Well, this is like saying "Once there's no problem there will be no problem." True, but not so useful. I used to be a big proponent of anonymity, but I...
Clay Shirky
cshirky
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Sep 16, 2002
10:27 am

... Depends on what they are competing for, dunnit? What if the measure of success is the maximization of "bad" behaviour?...
Tony Kimball
tony_kimball
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Sep 16, 2002
3:28 pm

... Could you be more specific? Don't give us poetry and allegory...:-) I will confess my interests here are pragmatic. I am interested in conducting buying...
Todd Boyle
toddboyle
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Sep 16, 2002
5:22 pm

... Sorry, should have spelled that out. I meant outcompete for GDP growth per capita. I am predicting that systems that maximize bad behavior will be ...
Clay Shirky
cshirky
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Sep 17, 2002
12:05 am

... That is an interesting thing to say, but I am queasy about it until you qualify what you mean by anonymity. Do you mean a lack of nyms, or a lack of civil...
Lucas Gonze
lgonze@...
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Sep 18, 2002
11:03 pm

... I don't mean lack of nyms. I don't know what you mean by civil identity, but if it means 'piercable veil', then that's what I mean. Anonymity in my view is...
Clay Shirky
cshirky
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Sep 19, 2002
1:35 am

... ...been a busy day, sorry to take so long following up. A civil identity is the one on your tax return. What makes me uneasy about your idea is that civil...
Lucas Gonze
lgonze@...
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Sep 19, 2002
10:57 pm

... I didn't understand what a civil identity was, so I don't think thats what I mean. Rethinking this, what I am now arguing is this: the thing that keeps ...
Clay Shirky
cshirky
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Sep 20, 2002
1:06 am

... Your one true Equifax/IRS name. People can argue that others may meet this condition, but the name that your credit rating and tax payment is attached to...
Jim McCoy
mccoy@...
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Sep 20, 2002
3:09 am

... Yes, absolutely. Reading this, I realize that one of my principal discomforts in the debate is the grouping of anyonymity with pseudonymnity. It seems to ...
Clay Shirky
cshirky
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Sep 20, 2002
1:58 pm

Although the symposium doesn't specifically deal with decentralized reputation systems I suspect it will be an important topic. Some of the names seem familiar...
Rikard Linde
rikardlinde2000
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Oct 16, 2002
11:20 am

Clay Shirky wrote, ... Where is the actual _argument_ for that claim? Perhaps iteration is _a_ thing which keeps people honest in PD scenarios, but there could...
Miles Sabin
milessabin
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Sep 20, 2002
6:40 am

... Robert Axelrod has done the most work in this area. The classic work is "The Evolution of Cooperation" (ISBN: 0465021212), in which he demonstrates the now...
Clay Shirky
cshirky
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Sep 20, 2002
12:36 pm
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