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The decline of P2P and Decentralisation   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #6900 of 7047 |
Whatever happened to P2P and Decentralisation as a design pattern?

Wordpress and Movable type became Myspace and Facebook.

RSS became Google Reader

Distributed email servers and desktop clients have become Google Mail

Posting a Quicktime file on your site has become YouTube

Running your own shoutcast server has become Last.FM tag radio

IRC has become Twitter

This post was prompted by Twitter and Twitter's success. If you were
going to design this from scratch knowing what they know now, would you
really use a pull architecture, centralised web system and Ruby on
Rails?

Did we all forget about Decentralisation or has the pendulum just swung
out to the opposite end and is due to swing back any time now?

ps. I know those questions are strawmen and the truth is that (almost)
everything that has ever happened is still happening.

--
Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173
Webmaster: http://www.ecademy.com/ T: +44 (0)192 0412 433
Personal WebLog: http://www.voidstar.com/ skype:julian.bond?chat
*** Just Say No To DRM ***
Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:37 pm

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Forward 		Message #6900 of 7047 |
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Whatever happened to P2P and Decentralisation as a design pattern? Wordpress and Movable type became Myspace and Facebook. RSS became Google Reader Distributed... 		Julian Bond
jbond23uk
Offline Send Email 		Apr 23, 2007
8:02 pm

I've been thinking of it like viscosity. So the issue isn't how decentralized the web-based systems are but how long it takes the overal landscape to change...
Lucas Gonze
lucas_gonze
Offline Send Email 		Apr 23, 2007
11:19 pm

Thanks very much for your cooperation the other topic is Portfolio what meaning of portfolio and how much kinds of porfolio Lucas Gonze <lucas@...>...
amir jony
jaan_aame
Offline Send Email 		Apr 24, 2007
3:56 am

Thanks Julian for reminding me this group still exists. I think Decentralisation was great - in theory - in practice most of the apps were unreliable, and so...
Mitra
mitra_earth
Offline Send Email 		Apr 24, 2007
9:22 am

Mitra <mitra.ardron@...> Tue, 24 Apr 2007 19:14:59 ... Shades of grey. There were very very few systems that were ever completely p2p and decentralised....
Julian Bond
jbond23uk
Offline Send Email 		Apr 24, 2007
12:12 pm

I find it interesting that these questions come from the webmaster for the "facebook for sales managers" of ecademy ;) Surely just from your own experience...
Gary Lawrence Murphy
revg
Offline Send Email 		Apr 24, 2007
1:00 am

Oh, I don't know: P2P for communication is doing just fine: look at Skype and the emerging efforts in the IETF to define a P2P version of SIP. There are...
Robert Welbourn
rwelbourn
Offline Send Email 		Apr 24, 2007
12:16 pm

Totally agreed Rob. These systems are never labeled as p2p precisely because they work so well. Without SIP and similar/associated protocols, most VoIP...
Adam Fisk
afisk3
Offline Send Email 		May 2, 2007
4:14 am

Hi Julian Essentially they all were swallowed up and developed after being "corporatised" / made proprietary. Which raises the old chestnut about the inability...
cjenscook
Offline Send Email 		Apr 24, 2007
4:13 pm

... a few thoughts that have been kicking around in the back of my brain for a while: - from an end user perspective, the hosted software is very appealing: ...
Miles Fidelman
mfidelman
Offline Send Email 		Apr 24, 2007
6:08 pm

Decentralized systems are much harder to design. ("costs more in time and money to get to equivalent features") Decentralized systems are much harder to debug....
Johannes Ernst
r_objects
Offline Send Email 		Apr 24, 2007
9:38 pm

... J> ... But putting some of the function out on the edge where it J> took advantage of CPU and bandwidth was a good thing. As was J> letting anyone and...
Gary Lawrence Murphy
revg
Offline Send Email 		Apr 25, 2007
2:12 pm

Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym@...> Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:27:05 ... I wasn't thinking of servers at home. But that anyone with a bit of hosting can run a...
Julian Bond
jbond23uk
Offline Send Email 		Apr 25, 2007
2:50 pm

... That's interesting - is there anything lost if your personal server/agent is hosted outside your physical home (ala Amazon's EC2)? This obviously is a ...
Mike Dierken
mdierken
Offline Send Email 		Apr 26, 2007
2:56 am

Hasn't decentralization become corporatized? I'm thinking of the increasing number of "widget" vendors and platforms. Sure - this isn't P2P, but the ability to...
Nick Lothian
nick_a_l
Offline Send Email 		Apr 25, 2007
11:33 pm

I think that the consensus vision of what decentralization means was a little too literal. People thought that it was always going to be about PC-based...
Lucas Gonze
lucas_gonze
Offline Send Email 		Apr 25, 2007
11:46 pm

Good point. REST definitely is about decentralized control - multiple organizations interacting without arduous up-front coordination. It's an enabling...
Mike Dierken
mdierken
Offline Send Email 		Apr 26, 2007
2:58 am

... Decentralized systems are also much, much harder to "monetize", to exploit the crowd of users to the unique advantage of one company, since nearly by ...
Brian Behlendorf
brian@...
Send Email 		Apr 30, 2007
6:41 am

... I was thinking about Google, in relation to this thread: they're interesting, because they have three separate topologies at work -- in front of the...
Clay Shirky
cshirky
Offline Send Email 		Apr 30, 2007
1:34 pm

Clay Shirky <clay@...> Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:25:55 ... Skype is throwing up some issues here. Because the bulk of the system is decentralised it's very...
Julian Bond
jbond23uk
Offline Send Email 		Apr 30, 2007
3:21 pm

... I'll side with Adam on this one. Funny how everything is happening at the same time: yesterday we were having a San Francisco P2P get-together, and Travis...
Serguei Osokine
osokin_parag...
Offline Send Email 		May 2, 2007
5:27 am

... As the resident Behlendorfian, I'll reply that neither Brian nor I are saying it is "unnecessary.' For my part, I'm saying a) that much of the predicted...
Clay Shirky
cshirky
Offline Send Email 		May 2, 2007
2:32 pm

Clay Shirky <clay@...> Wed, 2 May 2007 10:30:43 ... As always there are shades of grey here. Drupal and phpBB have done wonders for democratising the...
Julian Bond
jbond23uk
Offline Send Email 		May 2, 2007
3:39 pm

... Sure, they are powerful and democratizing, but Drupal and phpBB don't use decentralized topologies. In fact, they're pretty good illustrations of what...
Clay Shirky
cshirky
Offline Send Email 		May 2, 2007
3:53 pm

... Not sure what exactly do you mean by that, but it sounds suspiciously like what CompuServe executive might have said about the Web in the early nineties -...
Serguei Osokine
osokin_parag...
Offline Send Email 		May 2, 2007
4:51 pm

... No, I mean it as a historical observation. It is observably the case that there are fewer P2P apps in wide use than we predicted would be in circulation,...
Clay Shirky
cshirky
Offline Send Email 		May 2, 2007
6:04 pm

Clay Shirky <clay@...> Wed, 2 May 2007 14:03:15 ... Now there's a statement to conjure with and de-construct. From the implied ageism to the influence...
Julian Bond
jbond23uk
Offline Send Email 		May 2, 2007
7:12 pm

... It's not implied ageism -- its just ageism. (And it's certainly not about VCs.) Young people are a different kind of barometer of the possible than older...
Clay Shirky
cshirky
Offline Send Email 		May 2, 2007
7:58 pm

No question you're right, Clay, that people are building far more frequently from the LAMP stack these days than anything else. The decline of p2p doesn't...
Adam Fisk
afisk3
Offline Send Email 		May 2, 2007
10:53 pm
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