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The decline of P2P and Decentralisation   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #6902 of 7047 |
Re: [decentralization] The decline of P2P and Decentralisation

I find it interesting that these questions come from the webmaster for
the "facebook for sales managers" of ecademy ;) Surely just from your
own experience with that massive monolithic structure of centralized
control you must be in a great position to answer your own questions! :)

And whereas I'm not in any position, I will tell you what I was sent
two days ago, from Nokia -- I no longer own a nokia phone, but I did
and I still wish I had waited for the N95 instead of jumping on the
RIM bandwagon (talk about central control! And what goes wrong when it
fails!) -- anyway, in that little developers' newsletter they were
announcing the N95 and just let it slip that the dev-kit for that
phone will include "web2.0 extensions" to enable cellphone apps that
can use "ajax" like micro-services.

If you ask me, I'd say all your observations are because the Internet
as we knew it is largely dead, and /real/ communications have moved
into the portable pocket-computing space, a space that is very sadly
locked in to a hand-ful of vendors, but nonetheless, I think that is
where the next generation of P2P will happen. yeah, it may be in a
gmail/gtalk framework, but that's just the transport: the _components_
of the messages can and do come from /anywhere/

--
Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym at teledyn.com> =============================
www.teledyn.com - blog.teledyn.com - justus.teledyn.com - sbp.teledyn.com
======================= The present moment is a powerful goddess (Goethe)



Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:59 am

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Mitra <mitra.ardron@...> Tue, 24 Apr 2007 19:14:59 ... Shades of grey. There were very very few systems that were ever completely p2p and decentralised....
Julian Bond
jbond23uk
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Apr 24, 2007
12:12 pm

I find it interesting that these questions come from the webmaster for the "facebook for sales managers" of ecademy ;) Surely just from your own experience...
Gary Lawrence Murphy
revg
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Apr 24, 2007
1:00 am

Oh, I don't know: P2P for communication is doing just fine: look at Skype and the emerging efforts in the IETF to define a P2P version of SIP. There are...
Robert Welbourn
rwelbourn
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Apr 24, 2007
12:16 pm

Totally agreed Rob. These systems are never labeled as p2p precisely because they work so well. Without SIP and similar/associated protocols, most VoIP...
Adam Fisk
afisk3
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May 2, 2007
4:14 am

Hi Julian Essentially they all were swallowed up and developed after being "corporatised" / made proprietary. Which raises the old chestnut about the inability...
cjenscook
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Apr 24, 2007
4:13 pm

... a few thoughts that have been kicking around in the back of my brain for a while: - from an end user perspective, the hosted software is very appealing: ...
Miles Fidelman
mfidelman
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Apr 24, 2007
6:08 pm

Decentralized systems are much harder to design. ("costs more in time and money to get to equivalent features") Decentralized systems are much harder to debug....
Johannes Ernst
r_objects
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Apr 24, 2007
9:38 pm

... J> ... But putting some of the function out on the edge where it J> took advantage of CPU and bandwidth was a good thing. As was J> letting anyone and...
Gary Lawrence Murphy
revg
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Apr 25, 2007
2:12 pm

Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym@...> Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:27:05 ... I wasn't thinking of servers at home. But that anyone with a bit of hosting can run a...
Julian Bond
jbond23uk
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Apr 25, 2007
2:50 pm

... That's interesting - is there anything lost if your personal server/agent is hosted outside your physical home (ala Amazon's EC2)? This obviously is a ...
Mike Dierken
mdierken
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Apr 26, 2007
2:56 am

Hasn't decentralization become corporatized? I'm thinking of the increasing number of "widget" vendors and platforms. Sure - this isn't P2P, but the ability to...
Nick Lothian
nick_a_l
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Apr 25, 2007
11:33 pm

I think that the consensus vision of what decentralization means was a little too literal. People thought that it was always going to be about PC-based...
Lucas Gonze
lucas_gonze
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Apr 25, 2007
11:46 pm

Good point. REST definitely is about decentralized control - multiple organizations interacting without arduous up-front coordination. It's an enabling...
Mike Dierken
mdierken
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Apr 26, 2007
2:58 am

... Decentralized systems are also much, much harder to "monetize", to exploit the crowd of users to the unique advantage of one company, since nearly by ...
Brian Behlendorf
brian@...
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Apr 30, 2007
6:41 am

... I was thinking about Google, in relation to this thread: they're interesting, because they have three separate topologies at work -- in front of the...
Clay Shirky
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Apr 30, 2007
1:34 pm

Clay Shirky <clay@...> Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:25:55 ... Skype is throwing up some issues here. Because the bulk of the system is decentralised it's very...
Julian Bond
jbond23uk
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Apr 30, 2007
3:21 pm

... I'll side with Adam on this one. Funny how everything is happening at the same time: yesterday we were having a San Francisco P2P get-together, and Travis...
Serguei Osokine
osokin_parag...
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May 2, 2007
5:27 am

... As the resident Behlendorfian, I'll reply that neither Brian nor I are saying it is "unnecessary.' For my part, I'm saying a) that much of the predicted...
Clay Shirky
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May 2, 2007
2:32 pm

Clay Shirky <clay@...> Wed, 2 May 2007 10:30:43 ... As always there are shades of grey here. Drupal and phpBB have done wonders for democratising the...
Julian Bond
jbond23uk
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May 2, 2007
3:39 pm

... Sure, they are powerful and democratizing, but Drupal and phpBB don't use decentralized topologies. In fact, they're pretty good illustrations of what...
Clay Shirky
cshirky
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May 2, 2007
3:53 pm

... Not sure what exactly do you mean by that, but it sounds suspiciously like what CompuServe executive might have said about the Web in the early nineties -...
Serguei Osokine
osokin_parag...
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May 2, 2007
4:51 pm

... No, I mean it as a historical observation. It is observably the case that there are fewer P2P apps in wide use than we predicted would be in circulation,...
Clay Shirky
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May 2, 2007
6:04 pm

Clay Shirky <clay@...> Wed, 2 May 2007 14:03:15 ... Now there's a statement to conjure with and de-construct. From the implied ageism to the influence...
Julian Bond
jbond23uk
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May 2, 2007
7:12 pm

... It's not implied ageism -- its just ageism. (And it's certainly not about VCs.) Young people are a different kind of barometer of the possible than older...
Clay Shirky
cshirky
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May 2, 2007
7:58 pm

No question you're right, Clay, that people are building far more frequently from the LAMP stack these days than anything else. The decline of p2p doesn't...
Adam Fisk
afisk3
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May 2, 2007
10:53 pm

... Well, just to present a counterpoint... there are an awful lot of things that have been done successfully in the computer field, promptly forgotten, and...
Miles Fidelman
mfidelman
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May 2, 2007
10:58 pm

... Sure -- the batch pattern comes and goes, the time-sharing pattern comes and goes, and so on. To quote Donald Barthelme "The future may be different. It...
Clay Shirky
cshirky
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May 3, 2007
4:06 pm

... I guess I wasn't clear enough - I was pointing out that much of the "new" technology in today's desktop systems - things like pre-emptive multiprocessing...
Miles Fidelman
mfidelman
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May 3, 2007
5:46 pm

... grid is part of the list i gave (e.g.g the bio sequencing), but uucp/ nntp/email aren't new, so they don't much factor into the change between 2000 and...
Clay Shirky
cshirky
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May 3, 2007
10:43 pm

... Sure, though we'd need to find a reasonable way to frame and scope things, given that huge impact of starting conditions: - if I build a mashup using APIs...
Miles Fidelman
mfidelman
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May 3, 2007
11:13 pm
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