... Interestingly, steps 1-3 work now, and generate revenue in the hundreds of millions of dollars annually for the pornography industry. "If you want access...
761
Clay Shirky
clay@...
Dec 1, 2000 4:37 pm
... No. Plainly not. Furthermore, the fact that this is not true is so woven into the fabric of your day that you don't even see it. I don't know how old you...
762
Rahul Dave
rahul@...
Dec 1, 2000 5:09 pm
... Oh I aint 30 yet, so I never saw the mainframe days... ... agreed.. ... But my precise claim is that this model is all wrong. And I fear that at the first...
763
Lucas Gonze
lucas@...
Dec 1, 2000 5:59 pm
... Can you elaborate on this? How are they brittle? How does noise stop this from occurring? - Lucas...
764
Lucas Gonze
lucas@...
Dec 1, 2000 6:01 pm
There are an endless number of ways to simplify the process for the user. It's incremental development like any other. The user pays a flat fee, sure. ...
765
Clay Shirky
clay@...
Dec 1, 2000 6:38 pm
... Its hard because running real time markets is always hard. Why bother aggregating the resources as micropayments in the first place? What gain does that...
766
Justin Chapweske
orasis@...
Dec 1, 2000 7:36 pm
Clay, your negativity is tiresome. I think we can all agree that MojoNation is progress and will provide some interesting possibilities for P2P networks. It...
767
Lucas Gonze
lucas@...
Dec 1, 2000 9:25 pm
... You are right that automating market transactions is hard. The agents part of this is unsolved, IMHO. Hey Jim, how does MN deal with intelligent...
768
Clay Shirky
clay@...
Dec 1, 2000 11:20 pm
... Yes, and in many (though not all) P2P systems, the users and providers are the same people. ... Ah, but there's competition. The question isn't whether the...
769
Lucas Gonze
lucas@...
Dec 1, 2000 11:36 pm
... Endusers can have flat rates with micropayments. You can wrapper the guts of the system so that they don't have to see them. This is the same as other ...
770
Wesley M. Felter
wesf@...
Dec 1, 2000 11:43 pm
... Either it's flat-rate or it's usage-based. You can aggregate micropayments as much as you want but they're still usage based. Maybe I'm missing your point,...
771
Clay Shirky
clay@...
Dec 1, 2000 11:48 pm
... Absolutely, but metering != micropayment. My gas is measured by the BTU, but my bill is paid monthly. Something MN could be is a kind of P2P version of the...
772
Lucas Gonze
lucas@...
Dec 2, 2000 12:07 am
What I am thinking of is that users pay a flat fee to an aggregator. The aggregator runs the micropayment infrastructure and balances under-users against ...
773
Wesley M. Felter
wesf@...
Dec 2, 2000 12:25 am
... No, but it's not guaranteed to work, either. It doesn't seem obvious to me that this would improve P2P networks (which is what were are talking about,...
774
Clay Shirky
clay@...
Dec 2, 2000 1:16 am
... No, no reason this can't work. The futures market for bandwidth works this way. If I have 1000 minutes between New York and London tomorrow that I'm not...
775
Lucas Gonze
lucas@...
Dec 2, 2000 2:17 am
Here is my train of reasoning: * An incentivized system like MojoNation needs micropayments. * Users need flat fees, low-maintenance, and credit cards. * Third...
776
Clay Shirky
clay@...
Dec 2, 2000 4:35 pm
Lucas and I were hanging out in my office the other day, and we both said we were convinced that in P2P systems in general, if users were given the right...
777
Dave Winer
dave@...
Dec 2, 2000 4:48 pm
Clay, very interesting. I think the challenge is to make taxicabs deploy as easily as umbrellas. Dave...
778
Justin Chapweske
orasis@...
Dec 2, 2000 7:51 pm
That line makes a lot of sense. In the short term though, I think the market is needed to fully take advantage of the alrady available resources. Basically...
779
Joshua Allen
allenjs@...
Dec 2, 2000 8:03 pm
... Just IMO, the agents part is more a mental exercise than anything going to be practical anytime soon. Even with Stonebraker's "Agoric" ...
780
Joshua Allen
allenjs@...
Dec 2, 2000 8:19 pm
... You can kick people out of your taxicab to pick up a higher-paying passenger, though :-) If I'm following this thread right, the discussion is about how...
781
Rahul Dave
rahul@...
Dec 2, 2000 10:51 pm
... Somehow I get this feeling that the cycle stealing apps likely to persist for a long time are those that people feel something about, in the sense that...
782
Joshua Allen
allenjs@...
Dec 2, 2000 11:28 pm
... economic gain ... (directed spidering) ... community ... That's a really good list; clearly there are going to be plenty of non-economic incentives for...
783
Clay Shirky
clay@...
Dec 3, 2000 3:41 am
... Yes! Except you mispelled '5 years'. As usual, the game people are way ahead of the rest of us, with game servers dealing with distributed state in one for...
784
Clay Shirky
clay@...
Dec 3, 2000 3:48 am
... Yes, absolutely. Popular Power and Parabon are currently running 'Help cure cancer/the flu' programs to create just this sort of incentive. They will run...
785
Clay Shirky
clay@...
Dec 3, 2000 3:58 am
... That would be ideal, but there are all those truck rolls to consider. Napster is umbrella central headquarters, of course. If I determine at 2:17 am in the...
786
paradigm
paradigm@...
Dec 3, 2000 4:27 am
... Short time listener, first time poster -- Plese excuse me if I veer off-topic for this list. [now to the post] This concept is not a new one per se, but...
787
Joshua Allen
allenjs@...
Dec 3, 2000 6:26 am
Just FYI, the "alphaworld" world at www.activeworlds.com *does* allow you to create persistent objects, leave mail for people when their avatar is not online,...
788
Clay Shirky
clay@...
Dec 3, 2000 2:17 pm
... But we *have* a market. Here's how the current market works. I buy a computer. I am now the owner of 100% of its resources. They are mine to do with as I...
789
Dave Winer
dave@...
Dec 3, 2000 3:52 pm
I guess I'm still missing the big picture. I have no juice for this distributed CPU power harnessing app. SETI is great. This isn't why I bought a PC though,...
