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Hello friends,

I have two questions:

1. Has DMRC started repaying the loan to JBIC? Also, can someone share
financial information in addition to numbers cited in the following
article?

Delhi Metro plans for new smart cards (ET)
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Delhi_Metro_plans_for_new_smart_cards/articl\
eshow/2095197.cms

2. Here's an article in TOI which cites a study from CRRI and
quantifies savings in fuel, and auto maintenance etc.

Metro brings down pollution levels' (TOI)
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Metro_brings_down_pollution_levels/articlesho\
w/2098333.cms

It says, "Delhi has already made savings to the tune of Rs 1,167.36
crore because of Metro." I believe some of this data may be supplied by
DMRC. Is it really this simple to quantify such savings?

Regards,
Ashish

A lot depends on what were the previous modes of
transport for the Metro users. The saving would be
significant if Metro users are predominantly erstwhile
car users.

My hunch is that most of them were on public transport
anyways.

Regards, Ankur




__________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new
http://in.answers.yahoo.com/

While that is perhaps true for the  majority (>50%) of the users, I would be
surprised if there were not a significant number of private vehicle (Car &
Bike) users who have switched over.  If someone could dig up the CRRI
report, it should have those numbers.

----Original Message Follows----
From: Ankur Bhatnagar <ankur_sahab@...>
Reply-To: delhimetro@yahoogroups.com
To: delhimetro@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [delhimetro] Metro savings?
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 07:28:42 +0100 (BST)

A lot depends on what were the previous modes of
transport for the Metro users. The saving would be
significant if Metro users are predominantly erstwhile
car users.

My hunch is that most of them were on public transport
anyways.

Regards, Ankur




__________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new
http://in.answers.yahoo.com/


On the web:
http://www.irfca.org/users/delhimetro/
Yahoo! Groups Links



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These numbers are a pure fiction. There is no way such quantities could
be computed and put a number to.
Eg-- Increased accessibility  means people are making trips that they
would not have made otherwise. How many such trips are made?.
Also is DMRC offsetting pollution produced with generating electricity
for Metro?.

Ashish,

It is possible, and indeed common, to compute numbers of this kind
although they are fraught with all the uncertainties that have been
pointed out here. It does sound spuriously accurate but the idea should
be for the numbers to give a rough order of magnitude rather than
precision. There are all sorts of methodological questions and, given
the motivations of the people commissioning and writing the report, we
need to be slightly skeptical of what is being presented.

As we've been discussing, I find the lack of financial transparency
from DMRC really frustrating. The revenues, on the basis of this
article would be of the order of Rs.250-275 crores per year. That may
just about break even on an operating basis, although I would doubt
that. However, there is no way that it breaks even on a fully loaded
cost basis, which is what they seem to be trying to project.

Shashi

--- In delhimetro@yahoogroups.com, Vishal Mehra <vmehra@...> wrote:
>
> These numbers are a pure fiction. There is no way such quantities
could
> be computed and put a number to.
> Eg-- Increased accessibility  means people are making trips that they
> would not have made otherwise. How many such trips are made?.
> Also is DMRC offsetting pollution produced with generating
electricity
> for Metro?.
>

Hello all,

   Talking of computing numbers....do you have any idea what the Delhi Metro
thinks is the average cost of one tree...and the cost of all the services
provided by one tree!?

   Rs.700/- !!!

   Thats even less than a family dinner at an average restaurant.

   This and more gaps in the Environmental Impact Assessment (EIA) report have
been pointed out here, please give a read and let me know what you think.

  
http://delhigreens.wordpress.com/2007/05/30/gap-analysis-of-the-delhi-metros-eia\
-report/

   Regards
   Govind Singh
   http://delhigreens.wordpress.com

   M.Sc.(Sem-IV) Environmental Studies
   School of Environmental Studies
   University of Delhi
Delhi - 110 007


Shashi Verma <shashi_verma@...> wrote:
           Ashish,

It is possible, and indeed common, to compute numbers of this kind
although they are fraught with all the uncertainties that have been
pointed out here. It does sound spuriously accurate but the idea should
be for the numbers to give a rough order of magnitude rather than
precision. There are all sorts of methodological questions and, given
the motivations of the people commissioning and writing the report, we
need to be slightly skeptical of what is being presented.

As we've been discussing, I find the lack of financial transparency
from DMRC really frustrating. The revenues, on the basis of this
article would be of the order of Rs.250-275 crores per year. That may
just about break even on an operating basis, although I would doubt
that. However, there is no way that it breaks even on a fully loaded
cost basis, which is what they seem to be trying to project.

Shashi

--- In delhimetro@yahoogroups.com, Vishal Mehra <vmehra@...> wrote:
>
> These numbers are a pure fiction. There is no way such quantities
could
> be computed and put a number to.
> Eg-- Increased accessibility means people are making trips that they
> would not have made otherwise. How many such trips are made?.
> Also is DMRC offsetting pollution produced with generating
electricity
> for Metro?.
>






---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Govind,
   You have raised a very pertinent point on the EIA report of the DMRC.
   1. Perhaps you could also provide a more relaible account of the
costs/benefits that a tree contributes to the environment. This is something
construction engineers like Sreedharan do not understand.

   2. Unfortunately, the Delhi Metro Forum on the Yahoo Groups is not the right
place for you voice your concern, as your opinion will be restricted to only a
few "good men" who really have neither ability or capacity or reach to do
anything about it. I suggest you take this matter to the press/media who can
voice it more effectively and also ensure that the points raised by you reach
the powers that be and  the larger public in general.

   best regards



---------------------------------
  Looking for people who are YOUR TYPE?  Find them here!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ee grenpeac wale yahan bhi shuroo ho gaye....

Pahle apne ghar ke AC band karen. Pahle jo 15by10foot ke gaadi mein ek akele
baith ke chalte hain usko band karen. Phir Dilli metro ke peechhe padna. Kuchh
kaam dhaam nahin hai bas baith ke baal ki khaal nikalne ko de do... Taj mahal se
ek km ki dooree se highway nikla jayega to wo dhah jayega...LOL... dilli metro
ne galat figure project kiye hain issse dilli wasiyon ko aksigen ki kami mahsoos
hogi...700 rupaya ped ki keemat galat lagayee hai....aur jo office mein baith ke
hajaro pedon ke barabar paper ki batti banate hain uska kya. Wo bhi band karo...
Jo akhbar subah baith ke chaantte ho usko bhi band karo...
ek chhoti see baat in mand buddhiyon ke mastishk mein nahin ghustee hai, ki jo
power production ka by product - pollution engines ke dwar dilli mein fail raha
hai use kuchh had tak dille se door janglon ki sink mein shift kar diya gaya
hai. aur iske alawa agar 1unit shakti ke liye .85 unit pollution ho raha tha to
agar yahi shakti ek bade sanyantra mein banayee jaye to .5 se .6 unit hi shakti
watawaran ko pradushit karti hai. par andhon ke aage roye apne naina khoye wali
baat hai.
Saala jo thoda bahut kaam ho raha hi des mein jisme mana ki kuchh khamiya jarror
hongi, uski bakhiya udhedo bas.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A rather interesting take on a simple point but one that is not in
keeping with the decorum of this forum.

You may want to keep in mind that there is a huge gap between being
a "greenpeace wala" as you've labelled and raising a simple and valid
point. The EIAs from the DMRC, or indeed for other rail projects in
India, are shambolic. There is no other word to describe it. There is
next to no public input or consultation on the impact of the Metro,
close to no description of the detailed local impact and no
explanation for why the routes and technologies chosen balance the
needs for efficiency with the environment.

I say all of this despite being someone who is building not one but
two railways right now. And, just so that we are clear, I have
neither any affiliation nor any sympathy for Greenpeace.

Shashi



--- In delhimetro@yahoogroups.com, "RAJEEV TIVARI - MPL"
<RTIVARI@...> wrote:
>
> Ee grenpeac wale yahan bhi shuroo ho gaye....
>
> Pahle apne ghar ke AC band karen. Pahle jo 15by10foot ke gaadi mein
ek akele baith ke chalte hain usko band karen. Phir Dilli metro ke
peechhe padna. Kuchh kaam dhaam nahin hai bas baith ke baal ki khaal
nikalne ko de do... Taj mahal se ek km ki dooree se highway nikla
jayega to wo dhah jayega...LOL... dilli metro ne galat figure project
kiye hain issse dilli wasiyon ko aksigen ki kami mahsoos hogi...700
rupaya ped ki keemat galat lagayee hai....aur jo office mein baith ke
hajaro pedon ke barabar paper ki batti banate hain uska kya. Wo bhi
band karo... Jo akhbar subah baith ke chaantte ho usko bhi band
karo...
> ek chhoti see baat in mand buddhiyon ke mastishk mein nahin ghustee
hai, ki jo power production ka by product - pollution engines ke dwar
dilli mein fail raha hai use kuchh had tak dille se door janglon ki
sink mein shift kar diya gaya hai. aur iske alawa agar 1unit shakti
ke liye .85 unit pollution ho raha tha to agar yahi shakti ek bade
sanyantra mein banayee jaye to .5 se .6 unit hi shakti watawaran ko
pradushit karti hai. par andhon ke aage roye apne naina khoye wali
baat hai.
> Saala jo thoda bahut kaam ho raha hi des mein jisme mana ki kuchh
khamiya jarror hongi, uski bakhiya udhedo bas.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Is Rajeev on the Payrolls of DMRCJ.
   The greenpeace wala and other derogatory statements made by him refer to a
post-graduate of Environmental Studies from Delhi University (a preimier Univ of
the country) and not a chaltha-firtha engineering graduate from some regional
engineering college in Jhumrithalia like himself. While the points raised by
Govind (in his draft posted on delhigreens) maybe emotionally charged at some
places but they are essentially correct, mostly critical, analytical and
credible.

   Development is very important and nobody is questioning it. But if this could
be done in a clean way what is wrong. If the residents of Defence colony want
the metro to go underground, it is a perfectly justified request. The same
applies to the ridge. Where some NGO ("grean peace walas") objected to the
massive tree felling. Sreedharan has made it a habit to take refuge behind the
commonwealth games for everything. He does not understand that a infrastructure
project that is going to be around for 150 years cannot be rushed up and messed
up because of an event of 15 days. So what if an underground line takes a couple
of years more to construct, it is going to be more aesthetic and not make the
skyline an eyesore.

   Engineers like Rajeev (who are dime a dozen) are incapable of seeing anything
beyond bricks, cement and steel. As Rajeev would say “Bhains ke aage  been baja
ne se koi faida nahin hain”

   People like Rajeev should understand that people like Govind are qualified and
know what they are talking about. He (Rajeev) is not the lone crusader for
development and well being of this country.

   This talk of AC chalana, paper use karna, 15 by 10 car etc is useless rubbish
primarily aimed as a personal attack on a person who does not share his views.

   BHEL where he works is not counted among the best public sector in the world
and it is because it employs people who have a very narrow scope of view, on the
other hand DU from where Govind is trained is counted among the top univ of the
world. This in itself conveys a lot.




---------------------------------
  Looking for people who are YOUR TYPE?  Find them here!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mr. Shukla, are you n..s?
You have invested some time researching on me . Better use it in developing some
common sense. Good that you told public about BHEL and its credentials. Now they
will know your bent of mind. Because everyone knows BHEL and its actual
credentials and contribution to the country's development.
In any case, I am ignoring whatever you said. You can again try from another
rooftop.
Do you you want me to go public on you?


-----Original Message-----
From: delhimetro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:delhimetro@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Mohit Shukla
Sent: 08 June 2007 14:23
To: delhimetro@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [delhimetro] Gap analysis



Is Rajeev on the Payrolls of DMRCJ.
The greenpeace wala and other derogatory statements made by him refer to a
post-graduate of Environmental Studies from Delhi University (a preimier Univ of
the country) and not a chaltha-firtha engineering graduate from some regional
engineering college in Jhumrithalia like himself. While the points raised by
Govind (in his draft posted on delhigreens) maybe emotionally charged at some
places but they are essentially correct, mostly critical, analytical and
credible.

Development is very important and nobody is questioning it. But if this could be
done in a clean way what is wrong. If the residents of Defence colony want the
metro to go underground, it is a perfectly justified request. The same applies
to the ridge. Where some NGO ("grean peace walas") objected to the massive tree
felling. Sreedharan has made it a habit to take refuge behind the commonwealth
games for everything. He does not understand that a infrastructure project that
is going to be around for 150 years cannot be rushed up and messed up because of
an event of 15 days. So what if an underground line takes a couple of years more
to construct, it is going to be more aesthetic and not make the skyline an
eyesore.

Engineers like Rajeev (who are dime a dozen) are incapable of seeing anything
beyond bricks, cement and steel. As Rajeev would say "Bhains ke aage been baja
ne se koi faida nahin hain"

People like Rajeev should understand that people like Govind are qualified and
know what they are talking about. He (Rajeev) is not the lone crusader for
development and well being of this country.

This talk of AC chalana, paper use karna, 15 by 10 car etc is useless rubbish
primarily aimed as a personal attack on a person who does not share his views.

BHEL where he works is not counted among the best public sector in the world and
it is because it employs people who have a very narrow scope of view, on the
other hand DU from where Govind is trained is counted among the top univ of the
world. This in itself conveys a lot.



---------------------------------
Looking for people who are YOUR TYPE? Find them here!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







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Information contained and transmitted by this electronic communication together
with any attachments, may be legally privileged or confidential and is intended
only for the exclusive use of the individual(s) or entity to which it is
addressed. Opinions expressed are those of the sender and not necessarily that
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Shashi,

The forum has become banal. I just wanted to add a little spice. We all have our
viewpoints. I know about your job. I have not gone through the repot to be
honest. But this forum should be renamed to DMCritical, as i seldom get to read
anything heartwrmign or positive about the Metro. Analysising things crtically
is one thing and ever remaining critcal is another.

To me I have no doubt that Delhi Metro is going to change the City of Delhi and
would become a kind of lifeline, the way the Mumbai Suburban is to Mumbai. Those
who have seen the Central park at Cannaught Place, vouch for the environment and
aesthetic friendlieness of DMRC.

There is nothign in this world as absolute correctness.

Say for an instance, lets assume that all the data of environmental saving in
EIA are hot gas. Now, is there any alternative? If the report says that it has
added to pollution levels of a distant area where power is being generated, are
we going to advocate a halt on all the metro rail work across the country?
Moreover, is metro increasing fares on the pretetx that it has doen so much
saving towards environment cost. No.

THen why does it matter that the figures are inflated. Those who are really
keen, can go for the RTI route and get all the info they want. Let them move
some muscles other than finger ligaments.

Regards
Rajeev


-----Original Message-----
From: delhimetro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:delhimetro@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Shashi Verma
Sent: 08 June 2007 14:18
To: delhimetro@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [delhimetro] Re: Gap Analysis: Delhi Metro's Environmental Impact
Assessment Report



A rather interesting take on a simple point but one that is not in
keeping with the decorum of this forum.

You may want to keep in mind that there is a huge gap between being
a "greenpeace wala" as you've labelled and raising a simple and valid
point. The EIAs from the DMRC, or indeed for other rail projects in
India, are shambolic. There is no other word to describe it. There is
next to no public input or consultation on the impact of the Metro,
close to no description of the detailed local impact and no
explanation for why the routes and technologies chosen balance the
needs for efficiency with the environment.

I say all of this despite being someone who is building not one but
two railways right now. And, just so that we are clear, I have
neither any affiliation nor any sympathy for Greenpeace.

Shashi

--- In delhimetro@yahoogro <mailto:delhimetro%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com,
"RAJEEV TIVARI - MPL"
<RTIVARI@...> wrote:
>
> Ee grenpeac wale yahan bhi shuroo ho gaye....
>
> Pahle apne ghar ke AC band karen. Pahle jo 15by10foot ke gaadi mein
ek akele baith ke chalte hain usko band karen. Phir Dilli metro ke
peechhe padna. Kuchh kaam dhaam nahin hai bas baith ke baal ki khaal
nikalne ko de do... Taj mahal se ek km ki dooree se highway nikla
jayega to wo dhah jayega...LOL... dilli metro ne galat figure project
kiye hain issse dilli wasiyon ko aksigen ki kami mahsoos hogi...700
rupaya ped ki keemat galat lagayee hai....aur jo office mein baith ke
hajaro pedon ke barabar paper ki batti banate hain uska kya. Wo bhi
band karo... Jo akhbar subah baith ke chaantte ho usko bhi band
karo...
> ek chhoti see baat in mand buddhiyon ke mastishk mein nahin ghustee
hai, ki jo power production ka by product - pollution engines ke dwar
dilli mein fail raha hai use kuchh had tak dille se door janglon ki
sink mein shift kar diya gaya hai. aur iske alawa agar 1unit shakti
ke liye .85 unit pollution ho raha tha to agar yahi shakti ek bade
sanyantra mein banayee jaye to .5 se .6 unit hi shakti watawaran ko
pradushit karti hai. par andhon ke aage roye apne naina khoye wali
baat hai.
> Saala jo thoda bahut kaam ho raha hi des mein jisme mana ki kuchh
khamiya jarror hongi, uski bakhiya udhedo bas.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>







DISCLAIMER
********************************************************************************




Information contained and transmitted by this electronic communication together
with any attachments, may be legally privileged or confidential and is intended
only for the exclusive use of the individual(s) or entity to which it is
addressed. Opinions expressed are those of the sender and not necessarily that
of BHEL-PEM. If you are not the intended recipient or an agent of the intended
recipient or a person responsible for delivering the information to the named
recipient, you are notified that any use, copying, distribution, transmission,
printing, dissemination, of this message is strictly prohibited.
If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately at
emailadmin@... and delete the message.




While BHEL-PEM is using the latest antiviral tools, we do not accept any
responsibility for problems caused by viruses or other destructive mechanisms,
which may get attached to electronic communication. Please scan this email and
its attachment, if any, to ensure that the message is safe for use on your
system.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Even if there is a significant point in what you are saying - how you are
saying it is surely in bad taste. The purpose of having the discussion forum
is to have an informed discussion. I think that this purpose is getting
served. Delhi Metro has done commendable work no doubt - but it should not
be treated as a holy cow! If there are mistakes, we need to learn from them
- not condemn the person who points out the mistakes.

While we keep marvelling the Metro, and will keep doing so, small things get
missed out..........like:-

On the Patel Nagar stretch, each station has been made in sch a way, that
there are 'constrictions' at regular intervals. So on the busy
thouroughfare, traffic keeps slowing down as soon as a station comes, as
each station is a bottleneck. So while on one hand the Metro is saving fuel
- and everyone talks about it, has anyone calculated the fuel that keeps
getting wasted by the vehicles with this 'stop and go' effect that the metro
stations are causing? I am sure that this wastage is significant! ( I am
basing my comment on studies that were done to show that merely by idling at
a traffic intersection loses enough fuel which costs the same (over a year)
to build a flyover at the same intersection. Also the stations are built in
such a way that the road can not be widened even by a foot - ever. Maybe if
a community Psychologist was part of the team doing the planning, s/he would
have told the team that blueline buses (which will live with us till the
next ice age) would stop under each of the stations and lead to more traffic
jams than ever before! Maybe the stations would then have been designed
differently/accordingly.

Another point, though not environmental in nature-  anyone who changes
trains at Kashmere Gate station from the elevated to the underground and
vice versa, finds doing so very cumbersome. I know hordes of people who are
not taking the metro and would much rather travel by bus / autos just
because of the change over process. Who so ever planned that interchange
station, did not have give much thought to the convenience factor of
changing trains at that station. So it is a 'big' but commuter unfriendly
station.

Another example of 'mistakes' that we need to learn from - is the ticketing
system. Its 'modern' yet gives no reciepts of the travel cost incurred! So
if I want to claim my fare from office, it is not easy. Metro boasts that it
is the 'most modern system' in the world. Why is it that even the developed
countries have shied away from it? Also the system is expensive yet
inefficient. Have you seen how easily the system breaks down if there is a
heavy rush? It is slow ( the time taken per person to issue a token is much
more than any other system used in mass transits). If there is a queue of
merely 20 people, you can forego 10-15 minutes of your time. However,
scaringly long queues take much lesser time in front of a Mumbai local
ticket counter. Could not the same kind of a system be adapted - with
similar tickets coated with magnetic material to be 'read' at the gates be
used in Delhi Metro? This way, we would also get the 'ticket' in
hand. AFAIK, a similar system is used in most mass transits, including New
York. Delhi Metro in a sense 'acknowledges' the low speed of its ticket
dispensing mechanism and is telling people to buy smartcards to avoid 'long'
queues!

The list can go on and on.......................

But we must keep up the discussion and that too in the right spirit man!

(another) Rajeev.



On 6/8/07, RAJEEV TIVARI - MPL <RTIVARI@...> wrote:
>
>   Ee grenpeac wale yahan bhi shuroo ho gaye....
>
> Pahle apne ghar ke AC band karen. Pahle jo 15by10foot ke gaadi mein ek
> akele baith ke chalte hain usko band karen. Phir Dilli metro ke peechhe
> padna. Kuchh kaam dhaam nahin hai bas baith ke baal ki khaal nikalne ko de
> do... Taj mahal se ek km ki dooree se highway nikla jayega to wo dhah
> jayega...LOL... dilli metro ne galat figure project kiye hain issse dilli
> wasiyon ko aksigen ki kami mahsoos hogi...700 rupaya ped ki keemat galat
> lagayee hai....aur jo office mein baith ke hajaro pedon ke barabar paper ki
> batti banate hain uska kya. Wo bhi band karo... Jo akhbar subah baith ke
> chaantte ho usko bhi band karo...
> ek chhoti see baat in mand buddhiyon ke mastishk mein nahin ghustee hai,
> ki jo power production ka by product - pollution engines ke dwar dilli mein
> fail raha hai use kuchh had tak dille se door janglon ki sink mein shift kar
> diya gaya hai. aur iske alawa agar 1unit shakti ke liye .85 unit pollution
> ho raha tha to agar yahi shakti ek bade sanyantra mein banayee jaye to .5 se
> .6 unit hi shakti watawaran ko pradushit karti hai. par andhon ke aage roye
> apne naina khoye wali baat hai.
> Saala jo thoda bahut kaam ho raha hi des mein jisme mana ki kuchh khamiya
> jarror hongi, uski bakhiya udhedo bas.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Rajeev,
If we keep sending such feedback to the agency concerned, I am sure there is
bound to be some improvement. Mistakes/oversights are part of the game. But
timely feedback from all perspectives can prevent the repetition, at least. The
DM itself has so many examples of improvments based on user feedbacks.
As I said erlier, that having an eye for scope of improvement is one thing and
approaching with a prejudiced perspective another.

Most perfect of the systems of the world-hardware or software - are known to
have very silly bugs in them but those were improved over a period of time. in
absence of inetrnal review, External user feedback goes a long way. But muck
racking must be a strict nono.
Regards
Rajeev

-----Original Message-----
From: delhimetro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:delhimetro@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Rajeev Singh
Sent: 08 June 2007 15:03
To: delhimetro@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [delhimetro] Gap Analysis: Delhi Metro's Environmental Impact
Assessment Report



Even if there is a significant point in what you are saying - how you are
saying it is surely in bad taste. The purpose of having the discussion forum
is to have an informed discussion. I think that this purpose is getting
served. Delhi Metro has done commendable work no doubt - but it should not
be treated as a holy cow! If there are mistakes, we need to learn from them
- not condemn the person who points out the mistakes.

While we keep marvelling the Metro, and will keep doing so, small things get
missed out..........like:-

On the Patel Nagar stretch, each station has been made in sch a way, that
there are 'constrictions' at regular intervals. So on the busy
thouroughfare, traffic keeps slowing down as soon as a station comes, as
each station is a bottleneck. So while on one hand the Metro is saving fuel
- and everyone talks about it, has anyone calculated the fuel that keeps
getting wasted by the vehicles with this 'stop and go' effect that the metro
stations are causing? I am sure that this wastage is significant! ( I am
basing my comment on studies that were done to show that merely by idling at
a traffic intersection loses enough fuel which costs the same (over a year)
to build a flyover at the same intersection. Also the stations are built in
such a way that the road can not be widened even by a foot - ever. Maybe if
a community Psychologist was part of the team doing the planning, s/he would
have told the team that blueline buses (which will live with us till the
next ice age) would stop under each of the stations and lead to more traffic
jams than ever before! Maybe the stations would then have been designed
differently/accordingly.

Another point, though not environmental in nature- anyone who changes
trains at Kashmere Gate station from the elevated to the underground and
vice versa, finds doing so very cumbersome. I know hordes of people who are
not taking the metro and would much rather travel by bus / autos just
because of the change over process. Who so ever planned that interchange
station, did not have give much thought to the convenience factor of
changing trains at that station. So it is a 'big' but commuter unfriendly
station.

Another example of 'mistakes' that we need to learn from - is the ticketing
system. Its 'modern' yet gives no reciepts of the travel cost incurred! So
if I want to claim my fare from office, it is not easy. Metro boasts that it
is the 'most modern system' in the world. Why is it that even the developed
countries have shied away from it? Also the system is expensive yet
inefficient. Have you seen how easily the system breaks down if there is a
heavy rush? It is slow ( the time taken per person to issue a token is much
more than any other system used in mass transits). If there is a queue of
merely 20 people, you can forego 10-15 minutes of your time. However,
scaringly long queues take much lesser time in front of a Mumbai local
ticket counter. Could not the same kind of a system be adapted - with
similar tickets coated with magnetic material to be 'read' at the gates be
used in Delhi Metro? This way, we would also get the 'ticket' in
hand. AFAIK, a similar system is used in most mass transits, including New
York. Delhi Metro in a sense 'acknowledges' the low speed of its ticket
dispensing mechanism and is telling people to buy smartcards to avoid 'long'
queues!

The list can go on and on.......................

But we must keep up the discussion and that too in the right spirit man!

(another) Rajeev.

On 6/8/07, RAJEEV TIVARI - MPL < RTIVARI@bhelpem.
<mailto:RTIVARI%40bhelpem.co.in> co.in> wrote:
>
> Ee grenpeac wale yahan bhi shuroo ho gaye....
>
> Pahle apne ghar ke AC band karen. Pahle jo 15by10foot ke gaadi mein ek
> akele baith ke chalte hain usko band karen. Phir Dilli metro ke peechhe
> padna. Kuchh kaam dhaam nahin hai bas baith ke baal ki khaal nikalne ko de
> do... Taj mahal se ek km ki dooree se highway nikla jayega to wo dhah
> jayega...LOL... dilli metro ne galat figure project kiye hain issse dilli
> wasiyon ko aksigen ki kami mahsoos hogi...700 rupaya ped ki keemat galat
> lagayee hai....aur jo office mein baith ke hajaro pedon ke barabar paper ki
> batti banate hain uska kya. Wo bhi band karo... Jo akhbar subah baith ke
> chaantte ho usko bhi band karo...
> ek chhoti see baat in mand buddhiyon ke mastishk mein nahin ghustee hai,
> ki jo power production ka by product - pollution engines ke dwar dilli mein
> fail raha hai use kuchh had tak dille se door janglon ki sink mein shift kar
> diya gaya hai. aur iske alawa agar 1unit shakti ke liye .85 unit pollution
> ho raha tha to agar yahi shakti ek bade sanyantra mein banayee jaye to .5 se
> .6 unit hi shakti watawaran ko pradushit karti hai. par andhon ke aage roye
> apne naina khoye wali baat hai.
> Saala jo thoda bahut kaam ho raha hi des mein jisme mana ki kuchh khamiya
> jarror hongi, uski bakhiya udhedo bas.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







DISCLAIMER
********************************************************************************




Information contained and transmitted by this electronic communication together
with any attachments, may be legally privileged or confidential and is intended
only for the exclusive use of the individual(s) or entity to which it is
addressed. Opinions expressed are those of the sender and not necessarily that
of BHEL-PEM. If you are not the intended recipient or an agent of the intended
recipient or a person responsible for delivering the information to the named
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If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately at
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Good to see that my point is appreciated by the well meaning and scient members.
I feel the way of expressing was to blunt and not in keeping with the standard
of this forum. i also would like to clarify that I did not intend to target any
individual rather the mindset. I would like to withdraw the subject post and
request the moderators to please delete that post from the group.

I would also request all the memebers to refrain from personal insuniations in
their messages.
Debate is on.
Regards
Rajeev

-----Original Message-----
From: delhimetro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:delhimetro@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Shashi Verma
Sent: 08 June 2007 14:18
To: delhimetro@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [delhimetro] Re: Gap Analysis: Delhi Metro's Environmental Impact
Assessment Report



A rather interesting take on a simple point but one that is not in
keeping with the decorum of this forum.

You may want to keep in mind that there is a huge gap between being
a "greenpeace wala" as you've labelled and raising a simple and valid
point. The EIAs from the DMRC, or indeed for other rail projects in
India, are shambolic. There is no other word to describe it. There is
next to no public input or consultation on the impact of the Metro,
close to no description of the detailed local impact and no
explanation for why the routes and technologies chosen balance the
needs for efficiency with the environment.

I say all of this despite being someone who is building not one but
two railways right now. And, just so that we are clear, I have
neither any affiliation nor any sympathy for Greenpeace.

Shashi

--- In delhimetro@yahoogro <mailto:delhimetro%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com,
"RAJEEV TIVARI - MPL"
<RTIVARI@...> wrote:
>
> Ee grenpeac wale yahan bhi shuroo ho gaye....
>
> Pahle apne ghar ke AC band karen. Pahle jo 15by10foot ke gaadi mein
ek akele baith ke chalte hain usko band karen. Phir Dilli metro ke
peechhe padna. Kuchh kaam dhaam nahin hai bas baith ke baal ki khaal
nikalne ko de do... Taj mahal se ek km ki dooree se highway nikla
jayega to wo dhah jayega...LOL... dilli metro ne galat figure project
kiye hain issse dilli wasiyon ko aksigen ki kami mahsoos hogi...700
rupaya ped ki keemat galat lagayee hai....aur jo office mein baith ke
hajaro pedon ke barabar paper ki batti banate hain uska kya. Wo bhi
band karo... Jo akhbar subah baith ke chaantte ho usko bhi band
karo...
> ek chhoti see baat in mand buddhiyon ke mastishk mein nahin ghustee
hai, ki jo power production ka by product - pollution engines ke dwar
dilli mein fail raha hai use kuchh had tak dille se door janglon ki
sink mein shift kar diya gaya hai. aur iske alawa agar 1unit shakti
ke liye .85 unit pollution ho raha tha to agar yahi shakti ek bade
sanyantra mein banayee jaye to .5 se .6 unit hi shakti watawaran ko
pradushit karti hai. par andhon ke aage roye apne naina khoye wali
baat hai.
> Saala jo thoda bahut kaam ho raha hi des mein jisme mana ki kuchh
khamiya jarror hongi, uski bakhiya udhedo bas.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>







DISCLAIMER
********************************************************************************




Information contained and transmitted by this electronic communication together
with any attachments, may be legally privileged or confidential and is intended
only for the exclusive use of the individual(s) or entity to which it is
addressed. Opinions expressed are those of the sender and not necessarily that
of BHEL-PEM. If you are not the intended recipient or an agent of the intended
recipient or a person responsible for delivering the information to the named
recipient, you are notified that any use, copying, distribution, transmission,
printing, dissemination, of this message is strictly prohibited.
If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately at
emailadmin@... and delete the message.




While BHEL-PEM is using the latest antiviral tools, we do not accept any
responsibility for problems caused by viruses or other destructive mechanisms,
which may get attached to electronic communication. Please scan this email and
its attachment, if any, to ensure that the message is safe for use on your
system.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Are these maps out yet? Really curious about them.

Arun

Dear All,

Thank you for your worthy comments. I would have liked it if they
would have been made on the blog, so they could be noted by this HT
journalist who's working on this story.

I would still request you if you guys can, if its not too much of a
pain, copy/paste your comments there.

Even though I have a presentation tomorrow, I'd still take out time
to personally answer you...here only.

First, am not from GreenPeace or any other organisation for that
matter...except DelhiGreens - the blog that I want to take places. I
havestarted the blog as an initiative to ensure that whatever
development takes place in Delhi (Commonwealth or otherwise) is
sustainable and on the lines of environmental equity.

@Mohit Shukla: I did want to work on contingent valuation of the
trees, to give some approximation of the actual cost of one tree.
However, my dissertation viva is slated to happen tomorrow, and the
Prof. (at the Institute of Economic Growth) under whom I wanted to
work this is unavailable for two weeks. So, will do as soon as the
conditions become conducive.

This issue is already being worked upon by a reporter from HT, the
same guy who picked up the news of 1000 trees being cut at the
University, from the blog.

@RAJEEV TIVARI - MPL: Hello. Your words made a lot of sense to me. I
am myself trying to propogate the idea of simple/nature living -
something the father of out Nation pointed decaded ago. I have
recently made an NRI friend who is working on permaculture
(unfortunately not taught in any Indian University...do Google it up,
its an interesting read on Wikipedia). I would like to collaborate
with her and introduce this concept in urban India..and then also
Indianize it and take it to the West..who have a considrably LARGER
Ecological Footprint than us.

At the same time, Taj Mahal se 1 km dur highway banane se Taj Mahal
may not fall, par the elevated pollution levels, the noise and the
sight of cars and heavy vehicles will definitely bring down its
market value (tourism et al)!!

Aur dilli se door jin jangalon mein pollution sink shift kar diya
hai...wahan bhi log rehte hain (remember the population of this
country!) So, what right do we have to sacrifice their environment
for our benifits? Wo log to city life ka benifit bhi nahi utha
rahe...fir unhe ham kyon pradushit karein?

Delhi Metro has lot of benifits...but a) it should make a proper EIA
report (or not make it at all) and b) public ko galat information
nahi deni chayiey, it does not speak good for the Metro's credibility.

Also please do leave a reply at the Blog, so people can come to know
thr r criticisms of the report as well, thanks.

Rajeev,

Let me humour you for a second. "Greenpeace wallas" may or may not
have anything against Delhi metro, but you certainly have clearly
expressed your viewpoints about Greenpeace.

Your assertion that questioning DMRC's lack of transparency is somehow
hurting the project is moot. Infact that is exactly the kind of lack
of oversight and scrutiny that has caused most projects to fail in
India in the past. So in a sense we should rejoice that we are we are
able to question, and discuss, every step the Metro is taking.

Regards,
Ashish

Arun,

I am eager to find out as well. Has anyone on the forum seen these
maps?  I certainly couldn't find anything on the DTC website.

Regards,
Ashish

--- In delhimetro@yahoogroups.com, "Arun" <arunganesh03@...> wrote:
>
> Are these maps out yet? Really curious about them.
>
> Arun
>

Mr Rajeev:
   So its quite "OK" if you go on a ballistic on someone but nobody should do the
same for you. You seem to have one set of rules for yourself and another for
others. The reason I showed you the mirror was that some decorum is needed to be
maintained. You cannot go on a ballistic attacking someone just because they
have a view different from you. As for your ignoring what I said, it does not
really matter. My first reaction also was to ignore the rubbish you posted but
then that would have made you feel that you can go on attacking people.
Therefore I felt, I must post in same language that you did for Govind. Anyways
Govind also has given you a appropriate reply.

   BHEL may contributed to the country, but whta have you done? In contrast
Govind and his friends have been spreading a lot of envt. awareness in the city
and his efforts have been on the papers. If you want to attack people like him
than first make some contributions yourself.


---------------------------------
  Did you know? You can CHAT without downloading messenger.  Know how!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Govind:
   look forward to hearing about your work on the valuation of trees. I hope your
efforts will make the authorities more aware about their responsibility towards
the environment and health of people. And Goodluck for your dissertation viva.

   Best Regards


---------------------------------
  Download prohibited? No problem! CHAT from any browser, without download.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

*CIVIC Bangalore *

> has great pleasure in inviting you to an "Open House" on
>
> * *
>
> *          Bangalore Metro: *
>
> *       Its Socio-Economic & Environmental Impacts *
>
>
>
>                    Sri Michael F Saldhana ***
>
>                             Retd. Justice of Karnataka High Court
>
>
>
will preside

>
>
Chief Guests
Sri V. Madhu, IAS
                                    Managing Director, BMRC

Sri C. Jayaram
Environmental Officer, BMRCL

Sri Yellapa Reddy
  Chairman, Environment monitoring committee, BMRCL

>
>
> *CASUMM and Environment Support Group (ESG) will respond *
>
>
>
> *Date: Friday 15th June, 2007*
>
> *Time: 2.30PM to 6PM*
>  Venue: Senate Hall, Central College
>
> *Dr. Ambedkar Veedhi, Bangalore 560001*
>

                                    ALL ARE WELCOME

>                                   * Awaiting confirmation
>




>                                     *Programme Schedule ***
>
> * *
>
>  2.30 PM: Tea and registrations
>
> 3 PM:      Welcome and objectives
>
> 3.10 PM: Presentation on Metro by Sri V. Madhu
>
>                 &   Sri C. Jayaram
>
> 3.30 PM: Clarifications
>
> 3.35 PM: Presentation by Sri Yellappa Reddy
>
> 3.55 PM: Clarifications
>
> 4 PM:      Presentation by CASUMM
>
> 4.20 PM: Clarifications
>
> 4.25 PM: Presentation by ESG
>
> 4.45 PM: Clarifications
>
> 4.50 PM: Open house
>
> 5. 45 PM: President's remarks
>
> 5.55 PM: Vote of thanks
>
> *
CIVIC Bangalore *

> *(Citizens' Voluntary Initiative for the City)*
>
> # 6, Kasturi Apartments, 35/23 Langford Road Cross, Shanthinagar
>
> Bangalore 560025, Ph: 22110584 / 41144126 / 9880397401
>
*website:  www.civicspace.in / e-mail:  * civicblore@...



>


--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Citizens' Action Forum" group.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hey Govind,
It was a sheer coincidence for me that your blog also has 'green' in its title.
I would definitely go through it.
The urban lifestyle is so environment un-friendly. The consumer wants production
of all commmodities to come thick and fast. The milch and otherwise animals are
drugged so that they can meet the supply of milk, the farmland is being poisoned
so that consumer gets produce. we use ACs for cooling where as in delhi climate
dessert cooling(air washing) can give more comfortable cooling at a fraction of
cost environmental and economic. We use 25l of Ganga water just to flush away
100 gms of s....we find car pooling a low life practice(I have been practicing
it for last 6 years), we delightfully cary the fancy shopping bags made of the
earth-suffocating polythene. one can go on endlessly on how envirnment burdening
urban life is. We take our fact of being consumer with so much pride, ignoring
that consumerism is also a derivative of this term and that the latter can never
go hand in hand with green-ness. Metro is just another western import. It cannot
be a panacea of ridding the city of all the envirnmental burden. Then are we not
being naive in expecting that it would indeed have done that. that said, the
fact that such measures where 'energy production' has been shifted to a large
scale plant would definitely result in better environmental and economical cost
of the energy per unit. This is as far as operations are concerned. Comign to
erection of metro facilty, yes you can not expect that delhi can get the entire
network underground. We are a developing country and the comparartive costs of
UG are prohibitive. Had metro proposed all UG,  another group or may be same
group of people would have come with banners protesting against the extar burden
to exchequer that this step would put. After all they are the tax payers. Then
if you are to erect overground, you will have to locally sacrifice some trees.
But mind it that for every felled tree metro is planting and maintaining 15 or
so in delhi. So ultimately green cover remains. Now comigm to metro should not b
e visible from my nbalcony kind of protests. The lesser said the better about
those. People want development, hassle free rides but their view should not be
metroed. This is another thing that Some people would give their limb to have it
pass by their houses. Some want that there should be link to airport from their
drawing rooms. They find it a hassle to interchange from a nearby location. On
the other hand some are jubilant that it is going to touch their area by a
distance of 2-3kms. I woukld like to question the set of people who are againt a
sight of the metro near Qutubmeenar, or their defence colony bunglaws, that is
the metro really such an eyesore? metro criss crosses skylines of cities across
the world. Flyovers are their latest monuments, and one of the most beautiful
sights. Mausoleums are alright but these new monuments are in themesleves a
sight. I strongly feel a ladscape of Qutub in background and Metro passing would
have added value.

So on cannot isolate Metro and demand absolute environmental egalitarianism from
it. It is catering to the consumers after all.

And about the jungle as sinks, remember the forests ARE the sinks.
Rajeev


-----Original Message-----
From: delhimetro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:delhimetro@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Govind
Sent: 08 June 2007 15:58
To: delhimetro@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [delhimetro] Regarding Delhi Metro's Gap Analysis

Dear All,

Thank you for your worthy comments. I would have liked it if they
would have been made on the blog, so they could be noted by this HT
journalist who's working on this story.

I would still request you if you guys can, if its not too much of a
pain, copy/paste your comments there.

Even though I have a presentation tomorrow, I'd still take out time
to personally answer you...here only.

First, am not from GreenPeace or any other organisation for that
matter...except DelhiGreens - the blog that I want to take places. I
havestarted the blog as an initiative to ensure that whatever
development takes place in Delhi (Commonwealth or otherwise) is
sustainable and on the lines of environmental equity.

@Mohit Shukla: I did want to work on contingent valuation of the
trees, to give some approximation of the actual cost of one tree.
However, my dissertation viva is slated to happen tomorrow, and the
Prof. (at the Institute of Economic Growth) under whom I wanted to
work this is unavailable for two weeks. So, will do as soon as the
conditions become conducive.

This issue is already being worked upon by a reporter from HT, the
same guy who picked up the news of 1000 trees being cut at the
University, from the blog.

@RAJEEV TIVARI - MPL: Hello. Your words made a lot of sense to me. I
am myself trying to propogate the idea of simple/nature living -
something the father of out Nation pointed decaded ago. I have
recently made an NRI friend who is working on permaculture
(unfortunately not taught in any Indian University...do Google it up,
its an interesting read on Wikipedia). I would like to collaborate
with her and introduce this concept in urban India..and then also
Indianize it and take it to the West..who have a considrably LARGER
Ecological Footprint than us.

At the same time, Taj Mahal se 1 km dur highway banane se Taj Mahal
may not fall, par the elevated pollution levels, the noise and the
sight of cars and heavy vehicles will definitely bring down its
market value (tourism et al)!!

Aur dilli se door jin jangalon mein pollution sink shift kar diya
hai...wahan bhi log rehte hain (remember the population of this
country!) So, what right do we have to sacrifice their environment
for our benifits? Wo log to city life ka benifit bhi nahi utha
rahe...fir unhe ham kyon pradushit karein?

Delhi Metro has lot of benifits...but a) it should make a proper EIA
report (or not make it at all) and b) public ko galat information
nahi deni chayiey, it does not speak good for the Metro's credibility.

Also please do leave a reply at the Blog, so people can come to know
thr r criticisms of the report as well, thanks.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Isnt it strange that in the case of Greater Hyd'bad and Bruhat Bengaluru
also the UMTA has been set up all after the Mtro and Mono were chosen and
also BRT etc of course the UMTA was formed and notrified in April in
Karnataka and May in Hydbad but nominations have been made there and all
this was to be done for the NUTP what about cycling paths under JNNURM and
NUTP promoting non - motorised transport
Vinay

================================================================================\
============

  With so many new acronyms added to the city everyday, get used to this new
one because this one is designed to make our travel in the city easier,
HUMTA

The concept of HUMTA had great relevance for the twin cities and suggested
that it should also integrate various modes of traffic like rail, bus and
other systems.
The much-hyped Hyderabad Unified Metropolitan Transportation Authority
(HUMTA), aimed at improving the traffic and transportation system in the
twin cities, is yet to see the light of the day.

To be headed by a Chief Secretary, HUMTA was the main recommendation of A
Raghottam Rao Committee (Rao is presently Chief Commissioner for Land
Administration) on the Action Plan for Traffic and Transportation Management
in Hyderabad Metropolitan Area.

The other members of HUMTA include Secretary for Municipal Administration,
Commissioners of GHMC and Transport, vicechairmen of APSRTC and HUDA and
police commissioners of Hyderabad and Cyberabad.

Officials of the MCH, HUDA and traffic wings of Hyderabad and Cyberabad
commissionerates held a meeting in December last year, examined the Delhi
and Mumbai models of UMTAs and decided to constitute HUMTA under Section 58
of the Andhra Pradesh Urban Areas (Development) Act to oversee the
implementation of various traffic and transportation measures by various
agencies in the Hyderabad Metropolitan Area.

The officials felt that the concept of HUMTA had great relevance for the
twin cities and suggested that it should also integrate various modes of
traffic like rail, bus and other systems in a compatible manner and prepare
a road map for the implementation of the comprehensive transportation plan.

"Even rules were framed for constituting HUMTA, but nothing moved in that
direction later," official sources told.

The authority was to have overriding powers on subjects relating to
transportation and in decision making and allocation of budget regarding all
aspects relating to traffic and transport, resulting in greater coordination
among different departments, efficient use of resources and improvement of
transport system in the metropolitan area.

Even the National Transport Policy, finalised by the Union Urban Development
Ministry last year, has recommended the setting up of UMTAs in all cities
having a population of above one million to facilitate coordinated planning
and implementation of urban transport programmes. At present, only Delhi and
Mumbai metropolis have UMTAs.

According to official sources, Hyderabad Metropolitan Area witnessed a
phenomenal growth during the last two decades resulting in increased demand
for better transportation infrastructure due to spurt in personal vehicles,
frequent congestion along all major roads and high pollution levels.

"While various departments are striving to mitigate these problems, there
has been lack of coordination and integrated efforts among them resulting in
ever increasing traffic and transportation problems," sources said.

HUMTA was supposed to give directions to different agencies involved in the
implementation of traffic and transportation policies, process funds for
implementation of proposals, integrate various routes of public transport,
issues of combined ticketing and feeder services among others.

"The decision making process in clearing bottlenecks would have been
expedited if HUMTA had been in place by this time," a senior official of
Cyberabad Police Commissionerate said.

*Source: The New Indian Express*


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You are asking for it.

Are you the moderator? or the leader? If you are not satisfied with the decorum,
you can just go drink some cold water. Or better turnoff your PC.You are always
ballistic when anything good about the metro is said. May be you grudge it
because the airport link was connected to CP and not to your Drawing room in
Dwarka. Try to keep a neutral perspective.

Whe have you joined this group? People here are connected with this group right
from the inception days of the metro. They have visited stations, met metro
managers. We celebrate metro. Your only agenda has been here to somehow try to
scuttle the Metro link of CP Airport and get Airport caonnected with Dwaraka.
Now that all your efforts went in vain, you are trying to find a crusade agenda
and allies for the same.
I ams still not takign cognizance of any of your comments on me. Your attacks on
me and BHEL are throwing light on your charecter. You found a godsend opprtunity
to go ballistic on me which you had been waiting since the discussions on
CP-Airport link.

About making contributions, you do not know. And not every effort for better
environment is done on streets. All improvements start from your own
backyard-the kind those no jounalist cares to cover. Now  that you have
retracted your badmouth about BHEL hope better sense prevails soon about persons
also.
Best
Rajeev



-----Original Message-----
From: delhimetro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:delhimetro@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Mohit Shukla
Sent: 09 June 2007 10:17
To: delhimetro@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [delhimetro] Gap analysis



Mr Rajeev:
So its quite "OK" if you go on a ballistic on someone but nobody should do the
same for you. You seem to have one set of rules for yourself and another for
others. The reason I showed you the mirror was that some decorum is needed to be
maintained. You cannot go on a ballistic attacking someone just because they
have a view different from you. As for your ignoring what I said, it does not
really matter. My first reaction also was to ignore the rubbish you posted but
then that would have made you feel that you can go on attacking people.
Therefore I felt, I must post in same language that you did for Govind. Anyways
Govind also has given you a appropriate reply.

BHEL may contributed to the country, but whta have you done? In contrast Govind
and his friends have been spreading a lot of envt. awareness in the city and his
efforts have been on the papers. If you want to attack people like him than
first make some contributions yourself.

---------------------------------
Did you know? You can CHAT without downloading messenger. Know how!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ashish,
This Green world seems to have created a stirr. I was not aware that it is
Govind's blogs title.
Yes true, it can definitely be argued. This group is a kind of soundboard.  But
I chose to side with DMRC for now, in case people with strong prejudice against
it take part. We should not forget that the DMRC projects are probably the only
on-schedule ones in this country. We must give some credit to theri
capabilities. If ES goes for a partcular gauge, there must be some strong logic
for the benefit of the country. Such people like ES, NRNM, APJAK are like modern
saints. While we can discuss, let them do their job. Cause probably they know it
better than most of us here.
Regards
Rajeev

-----Original Message-----
From: delhimetro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:delhimetro@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
cnc_square
Sent: 09 June 2007 08:20
To: delhimetro@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [delhimetro] Re: Gap Analysis: Delhi Metro's Environmental Impact
Assessment Report



Rajeev,

Let me humour you for a second. "Greenpeace wallas" may or may not
have anything against Delhi metro, but you certainly have clearly
expressed your viewpoints about Greenpeace.

Your assertion that questioning DMRC's lack of transparency is somehow
hurting the project is moot. Infact that is exactly the kind of lack
of oversight and scrutiny that has caused most projects to fail in
India in the past. So in a sense we should rejoice that we are we are
able to question, and discuss, every step the Metro is taking.

Regards,
Ashish







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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well Mr Rajeev
   Are you the moderator or the leader, or only you have a monopoly on being
ballistic? Maybe you should also drink some cold water and switch off the PC.

   And if you are connected with the inception of this group right from the
beginning do you have greater rights to attack people?  And about my agenda to
have metro from airport to Dwarka, to the best of my memory my posts on the
airport link were primarily with regard to the guage and flat fare and not on
its destination. And If I remember right you also felt that DMRC should have
opted for BG and not SG. All this talk of me having an agenda seems more to be a
desparate attempt on your part to somehow take the focus away from the rubbish
you posted against Govind and grab the moral high ground.

   Secondly, for your information the airport is not very far from my drawing
room in Dwarka it is just 5-6 Km and is connected by some very good quality
roads. And any regular metro user will vouch that for such short distances the
metro is expensive. Perhaps you are not a delhiwala and therefore think that
Dwarka is light years away from the Airport.

   Maybe my “attacks” on you throw light on my character but your tirade on
Govind a few posts back and your reaction to a counter tirade on you sheds
floodlights on your character and tolerance levels.

   I never bad mouthed BHEL, I said it is not among the best public sectors in
the world and that still holds. Anyway good sense seems to have prevailed on you
that you have asked the moderator to withdraw the post and likewise I hope good
sense also prevails on you also about persons.

   And for the record I have no personal agenda against you. Infact I actually
used to appreciate how articulate and analytical your posts usually used to be.
I was actually quite surprised on reading the thorougly distasteful tirade you
launched against Govinds post. You can go on a volley of attacks again but I
dont think I am going to waste anymore time responding to your attacks.

   Best wishes and have a nice day:)



---------------------------------
  Here’s a new way to find what you're looking for - Yahoo! Answers

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I appreciate your writing skills. I did not mind the content, still. You can
still carry on attacking me in your polished lingo.... until..
I am sure Govind is not your alter ego. There is hell lot of difference in
both's approach.
I would use the direct mail for further communication to you as the group
decorum may not allow that and even would consult my lawyer friends if you go on
with your spree. This is the last warning. Before that I would also request the
moderators to intervene.


  -----Original Message-----
From: delhimetro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:delhimetro@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Mohit Shukla
Sent: 09 June 2007 12:57
To: delhimetro@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [delhimetro] Gap analysis



Well Mr Rajeev
Are you the moderator or the leader, or only you have a monopoly on being
ballistic? Maybe you should also drink some cold water and switch off the PC.

And if you are connected with the inception of this group right from the
beginning do you have greater rights to attack people? And about my agenda to
have metro from airport to Dwarka, to the best of my memory my posts on the
airport link were primarily with regard to the guage and flat fare and not on
its destination. And If I remember right you also felt that DMRC should have
opted for BG and not SG. All this talk of me having an agenda seems more to be a
desparate attempt on your part to somehow take the focus away from the rubbish
you posted against Govind and grab the moral high ground.

Secondly, for your information the airport is not very far from my drawing room
in Dwarka it is just 5-6 Km and is connected by some very good quality roads.
And any regular metro user will vouch that for such short distances the metro is
expensive. Perhaps you are not a delhiwala and therefore think that Dwarka is
light years away from the Airport.

Maybe my "attacks" on you throw light on my character but your tirade on Govind
a few posts back and your reaction to a counter tirade on you sheds floodlights
on your character and tolerance levels.

I never bad mouthed BHEL, I said it is not among the best public sectors in the
world and that still holds. Anyway good sense seems to have prevailed on you
that you have asked the moderator to withdraw the post and likewise I hope good
sense also prevails on you also about persons.

And for the record I have no personal agenda against you. Infact I actually used
to appreciate how articulate and analytical your posts usually used to be. I was
actually quite surprised on reading the thorougly distasteful tirade you
launched against Govinds post. You can go on a volley of attacks again but I
dont think I am going to waste anymore time responding to your attacks.

Best wishes and have a nice day:)



---------------------------------
Here's a new way to find what you're looking for - Yahoo! Answers

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







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********************************************************************************




Information contained and transmitted by this electronic communication together
with any attachments, may be legally privileged or confidential and is intended
only for the exclusive use of the individual(s) or entity to which it is
addressed. Opinions expressed are those of the sender and not necessarily that
of BHEL-PEM. If you are not the intended recipient or an agent of the intended
recipient or a person responsible for delivering the information to the named
recipient, you are notified that any use, copying, distribution, transmission,
printing, dissemination, of this message is strictly prohibited.
If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately at
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While BHEL-PEM is using the latest antiviral tools, we do not accept any
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

All right,

The personal attacks need to stop, right now! Let me remind everyone of
the purpose of the group:

"The posts focus on the Delhi Metro and similar rail based mass transit
projects in Indian cities such as Mumbai, Kolkata, Hyderabad, Chennai
and Bangalore. Alternatives such as Light Rail, Sky Bus, Electric
Trolley Bus, Monorail, Tram, High Capacity Bus, and related public
transportation issues are also discussed."

Anything, or anyone outside this purview will be removed from the
forum.

Ashish
Moderator

--- RAJEEV TIVARI - MPL <RTIVARI@...> wrote:

> I appreciate your writing skills. I did not mind the content, still.
> You can still carry on attacking me in your polished lingo....
> until..
> I am sure Govind is not your alter ego. There is hell lot of
> difference in both's approach.
> I would use the direct mail for further communication to you as the
> group decorum may not allow that and even would consult my lawyer
> friends if you go on with your spree. This is the last warning.
> Before that I would also request the moderators to intervene.
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
> From: delhimetro@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:delhimetro@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Mohit Shukla
> Sent: 09 June 2007 12:57
> To: delhimetro@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [delhimetro] Gap analysis
>
>
>
> Well Mr Rajeev
> Are you the moderator or the leader, or only you have a monopoly on
> being ballistic? Maybe you should also drink some cold water and
> switch off the PC.
>
> And if you are connected with the inception of this group right from
> the beginning do you have greater rights to attack people? And about
> my agenda to have metro from airport to Dwarka, to the best of my
> memory my posts on the airport link were primarily with regard to the
> guage and flat fare and not on its destination. And If I remember
> right you also felt that DMRC should have opted for BG and not SG.
> All this talk of me having an agenda seems more to be a desparate
> attempt on your part to somehow take the focus away from the rubbish
> you posted against Govind and grab the moral high ground.
>
> Secondly, for your information the airport is not very far from my
> drawing room in Dwarka it is just 5-6 Km and is connected by some
> very good quality roads. And any regular metro user will vouch that
> for such short distances the metro is expensive. Perhaps you are not
> a delhiwala and therefore think that Dwarka is light years away from
> the Airport.
>
> Maybe my "attacks" on you throw light on my character but your tirade
> on Govind a few posts back and your reaction to a counter tirade on
> you sheds floodlights on your character and tolerance levels.
>
> I never bad mouthed BHEL, I said it is not among the best public
> sectors in the world and that still holds. Anyway good sense seems to
> have prevailed on you that you have asked the moderator to withdraw
> the post and likewise I hope good sense also prevails on you also
> about persons.
>
> And for the record I have no personal agenda against you. Infact I
> actually used to appreciate how articulate and analytical your posts
> usually used to be. I was actually quite surprised on reading the
> thorougly distasteful tirade you launched against Govinds post. You
> can go on a volley of attacks again but I dont think I am going to
> waste anymore time responding to your attacks.
>
> Best wishes and have a nice day:)
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Here's a new way to find what you're looking for - Yahoo! Answers
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> DISCLAIMER
>
********************************************************************************
>
>
>
>
>
> Information contained and transmitted by this electronic
> communication together with any attachments, may be legally
> privileged or confidential and is intended only for the exclusive use
> of the individual(s) or entity to which it is addressed. Opinions
> expressed are those of the sender and not necessarily that of
> BHEL-PEM. If you are not the intended recipient or an agent of the
> intended recipient or a person responsible for delivering the
> information to the named recipient, you are notified that any use,
> copying, distribution, transmission, printing, dissemination, of this
> message is strictly prohibited.
> If you have received this message in error, please notify us
> immediately at emailadmin@... and delete the message.
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>
>
>
> While BHEL-PEM is using the latest antiviral tools, we do not accept
> any responsibility for problems caused by viruses or other
> destructive mechanisms, which may get attached to electronic
> communication. Please scan this email and its attachment, if any, to
> ensure that the message is safe for use on your system.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> On the web:
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>