On 15 Sep 2002 at 18:42, Michael Keller wrote:

> I don't want to disenfranchise anyone, but there's only one vote waiting to
> come in and it can't change the results, so I'll go ahead and announce that,
> with five votes in, the motion to purchase $1,000 worth of shares in APWR at
> or below $7.50 passed unanimously.
>
> Mike Keller

I hope that I was the last individual, if I was, I aplogize, for I thought I
sent it out, I'm FOR
the motion.

I don't want to disenfranchise anyone, but there's only one vote waiting to
come in and it can't change the results, so I'll go ahead and announce that,
with five votes in, the motion to purchase $1,000 worth of shares in APWR at
or below $7.50 passed unanimously.

Mike Keller
http://www.mikekellerphoto.com

"In Genesis, it says that it is not good for a man to be alone; but
sometimes it is a great relief." - John Barrymore

Roger that, I concur... sorry for the delay... :)

Thomas Roy Garner - 4580576 (ICQ)
TRGarner Homepage ( http://home.earthlink.net/~trgarne/ )
SETIPRIME ( http://www.setiprime.com )


-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Hess [mailto:hess@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 6:21 AM
To: goldclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [goldclub] APWR proposal


Hi All,

Based on prior discussion, I propose that the club purchase $1,000 worth of
APWR at a price no higher than $7.50.

                                     - Paul


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I agree with Paul,  I think that would be a fine choice.

Donna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Hess" <hess@...>
To: <goldclub@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 7:20 AM
Subject: [goldclub] APWR proposal


> Hi All,
>
> Based on prior discussion, I propose that the club purchase $1,000 worth
of APWR at a price no higher than $7.50.
>
>                                     - Paul
>
>
> Subscribe: goldclub-subscribe@egroups.com
> Unsubscribe: goldclub-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> Moderator: goldclub-owner@egroups.com
> Web: <http://www.egroups.com/group/goldclub>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Hi All,

Based on prior discussion, I propose that the club purchase $1,000 worth of APWR
at a price no higher than $7.50.

                                     - Paul

This is worth a read.<g>

SUPREME COURT RULES EARNINGS SHOULD BE PROTECTED AS ART


  http://www.satirewire.com/news/june02/worldcom.shtml

Mike Keller
http://www.mikekellerphoto.com

"In Genesis, it says that it is not good for a man to be alone; but
sometimes it is a great relief." - John Barrymore

Hi Lanny

Well, it just dipped again (more than 40%!!!!) in early August due to poor
earnings.  I think the market over-punishes firms right now due to how scared
everyone is.  It's selling at maybe 2x sales now.  In the long run I think sales
should eventually grow and it seems that they already know how to be profitable
at the current sales level so more volume can only be a good thing.

The price is now 1/2 of where I thought it started to be interested, but where I
wasn't sure it was worth the price.  At $8/share I think it's worth us acquiring
some given our long term outlook.


                          - Paul

At 11:46 AM -0400 8/11/02, Lanny Vrooman wrote:
> Or do we want to add something new.  Paul, sometime ago you mentioned APWR
what do you think of this?  At the time you were concerned why it dipped.  Do
you still have the same concern.

August 4, 2002 NY Times
As the Brash Stumble, Viacom Finds Itself Leading the Pack
By MARK LANDLER and GERALDINE FABRIKANT


MEL KARMAZIN says Thomas Middelhoff is an extraordinarily talented chief
executive, as talented as any in the United States.

But Mr. Karmazin, the no-frills New Yorker who is president of the media
conglomerate Viacom, cultivates a very different style from Mr. Middelhoff,
the big-thinking German who until last week ran the media conglomerate
Bertelsmann.

In a commercial he commissioned for German television, Mr. Middelhoff
appeared wearing a "Star Trek" uniform under the slogan, "We pursue big
ideas — no matter where they lead us." Mr. Karmazin showed up for a recent
conference call with institutional investors in a T-shirt that said, "We
will not do anything stupid." He says investors are clamoring for copies of
it.

The differences between Viacom and Bertelsmann run far deeper than slogans
on T-shirts, of course, and they say a lot about why Viacom today is the
world's most valuable media empire, while Bertelsmann jettisoned Mr.
Middelhoff last week and is likely to ditch many of his imperial ambitions.

Viacom is the only global media conglomerate that never succumbed to the
allure of the Internet. It has steadfastly resisted the defining "big idea"
of the 21st-century media business: that the Internet will profoundly
transform the way people consume information and entertainment,
necessitating radical changes in the way companies distribute their movies,
television shows, music and magazines.

It is not that Viacom rejects the importance of the Internet — or even the
notion that it is changing the habits of consumers, particularly young ones,
in ways that will generate exciting new businesses.

But unlike Bertelsmann under Mr. Middelhoff, Vivendi Universal under
Jean-Marie Messier or AOL Time Warner under Gerald M. Levin and Robert W.
Pittman, Viacom did not bet its corporate ranch on convergence — the
marriage of old-line media assets with Internet-age technology.

At Viacom, the Internet functions largely as a brand extension — a vehicle
to enhance the company's existing properties, from Paramount Pictures and
MTV to CBS and Blockbuster.

Mr. Middelhoff, Mr. Messier and Mr. Pittman, the chief operating officer at
AOL Time Warner, were all shown the door within three weeks of one another.
So if career survival is any guide, Viacom's pragmatic approach appears to
have been the right bet.

"Convergence may be the most expensive word in history," said David Geffen,
the prolific entrepreneur who is co-founder of DreamWorks, the movie studio,
with Steven Spielberg and Jeffrey Katzenberg. "It has cost people billions."

Like most media moguls, Mr. Geffen does not dispute the contention that
digital technology is blurring the boundaries between the television, the PC
and the telephone. But a huge number of multimillion-dollar investments has
shown that extracting a profit from this convergence is extraordinarily
difficult, particularly when companies try to meld assets from disparate
industries — say, cellular phones with Hollywood entertainment.


The upheavals at AOL Time Warner, Bertelsmann and Vivendi stemmed in part
from the inability of their top executives to cope with the unwieldy
goliaths they had created. "Nobody has an expertise that runs across every
single medium," Mr. Geffen said.

But, he added: "It is still early. Maybe a generation from now, it will be a
different story."

Viacom is not the only company that has steered a conservative course.
Neither the Walt Disney Company nor Rupert Murdoch's News Corporation made
bets on cyberspace that altered the direction of their companies. But of all
the global players, Viacom has an Internet strategy most firmly rooted in
the here and now.

MTV.com, the Web site for Viacom's ubiquitous music video channel, offers
surfers the chance to listen to music, watch streaming video or buy tickets
for concerts by bands like the Red Hot Chili Peppers. Yet the site, among
the most heavily visited on the Web, is at heart an electronic billboard for
MTV.

"Our strategy is tied into these strong brands, and in having a platform to
cross-promote them," Mr. Karmazin said.

That is the vocabulary of an advertising salesman, which Mr. Karmazin is,
and it is worlds away from the high-flown phrases of Internet evangelists.
Mr. Levin, the former chief executive of AOL Time Warner and architect of
the 2001 merger that created it, once likened the Net to the ancient library
at Alexandria — enormous, democratic and free.

Over the last three years, Mr. Karmazin said, he has read more than 100
business plans for Internet start-ups seeking to be acquired by Viacom. Some
were more than start-ups: Sumner M. Redstone, Viacom's chairman, turned away
Mr. Pittman when he proposed in mid-1999 that Viacom buy America Online.

In almost all cases, neither Mr. Karmazin nor Mr. Redstone was able to
justify the high price of the start-ups, based on their projected long-term
contribution to Viacom's sales and profits.

"These things are de minimus to a company of our size," Mr. Karmazin said.
"They are not transforming. So you sit there and you say to yourself, `Why
in the world would I pay an exorbitant price when the thing is only going to
be a small part of my company in five years?' "

In Mr. Middelhoff's four years atop Bertelsmann, his forays into the
Internet were all about transformation. He fervently believed that the Web
was reinventing the way people buy books and CD's, two of Bertelsmann's core
products. After trying to buy Amazon.com, Mr. Middelhoff poured hundreds of
millions of dollars into online stores like BOL.com and CDNow.com.

The losses piled up, and the ventures were eventually folded into
Bertelsmann's traditional book and music clubs.

Mr. Middelhoff's most prominent Internet crusade — if not the most costly —
was Napster, the online file-sharing service that vowed to revolutionize the
distribution of recorded music. Napster was vilified by the major music
companies as a pirate in pioneer's clothes, but he lent it $85 million and
tried to turn it into a subscriber-based service.

Trouble is, Mr. Middelhoff could not persuade the other major music
companies to withdraw their lawsuits against the service. Even as they were
quietly putting together their own online ventures, AOL Time Warner, Vivendi
and others effectively drove Napster into bankruptcy. Under Bertelsmann's
cautious new bosses, its future looks dim.

Pioneers, the clichι goes, end up with arrows in their backs. Mr.
Middelhoff's defenders said Napster could have leapfrogged ahead of an
Internet wave that threatens to engulf the music business.

"Middelhoff was breathtaking in the leadership roles he took," said Porter
Bibb, the managing director of Technology Partners, an investment advisory
firm in New York. "If he had brought the other music executives with him, he
might have been able to turn the Internet into a viable distribution
medium."

But current and former Bertelsmann executives said that in his fervor, Mr.
Middelhoff misjudged the mood of the music industry, as well as the
perceived threat that Napster posed to its business.

Even at Bertelsmann's music division, BMG, executives debated often and
stridently the wisdom of the Napster investment. Most of the unit's top
executives left soon after the investment was announced, though some say the
exodus was initiated by Mr. Middelhoff as part of an overdue house-cleaning.

"Music is an ideal business to attack through the Internet," one former
senior executive said. "But Napster implants the idea that content doesn't
cost anything, and that is extremely dangerous."

Mr. Middelhoff did not respond to requests for an interview.

If he was a mogul ahead of his time, Mr. Messier and Vivendi, a French water
company founded during the reign of Napoleon III, seemed even more divorced
from reality.

Mr. Middelhoff's Internet ventures, though risky, were driven by the desire
to expand Bertelsmann's existing businesses. Mr. Messier, an investment
banker with no experience in media, used convergence as a rationale to
cobble together businesses with little obvious connection.

"Some of these deals were marriages of convenience, which were justified as
marriages of convergence," said Michael J. Wolf, the head of the media
practice at McKinsey & Company.

Beaming music and video, through a wireless Internet connection, to a
customer's cellular phone was a pet project of Mr. Messier's. He made it the
cornerstone of his pitch for Vivendi's $34 billion acquisition of Seagram
Ltd., which owned the Universal film studio and music company.


The project seemed far-fetched from the start. Vivendi owns 44 percent of
Cegetel, a long-distance provider that, in turn, owns a majority of France's
No. 2 cellular company, SFR. Before Vivendi acquired Seagram, it teamed up
with Vodafone, the British cellular giant, to create an Internet service,
known as Vizzavi, which claimed a potential market of 80 million people.

Mr. Messier's idea — which in these sober times seems almost quaint in its
Dick Tracy futurism — was to transmit clips of Universal's movies and songs
to the cellular phones of these customers.

"The overall vision is really to be the media group and the content group
which gets the best usage of direct customer relationships on a global and
multiplatform basis," Mr. Messier said in an interview last year, during the
brief heyday of his empire-building.

Unfortunately for Mr. Messier, two of his platforms — telecommunications and
the Internet — collapsed as industries. And the Seagram purchase left
Vivendi staggering under $18 billion in debt.

Last month, with Vivendi's stock price cratering and its loan covenants near
default, Vivendi's board replaced Mr. Messier with a retired pharmaceutical
executive, Jean-Renι Fourtou. He is expected to disassemble much of what his
predecessor built, starting with Vizzavi.

Mr. Messier's defenders say he was on the right track in seeing the
potential for wireless Internet access. But even the Japanese cellular
provider NTT DoCoMo, which pioneered multipurpose pocket phones with its
I-mode service, has had trouble selling the third generation of these
gadgets.

Mr. Redstone of Viacom said the mistake that some media companies made was
to overestimate how quickly new technologies — even one as potent as the
Internet — would alter people's habits.

"Behavioral patterns don't change that easily," he said. "Americans are
passive. They will continue to write checks and shop at stores," he added,
referring to the plans of AOL Time Warner for electronic shopping.

Mr. Redstone built one of the country's greatest fortunes on the unchanging
habits of consumers. He continued to own movie theaters long after experts
predicted that they would be put out of business by rented videocassettes.
He bought control of Blockbuster Entertainment at a time when industry
forecasters said the home video market would be wiped out by interactive
television.

Viacom's stock has been hurt by the downturn in advertising revenue, on
which MTV, Nickelodeon, CBS and its other businesses are heavily dependent.
But it has not suffered nearly as much as its rivals.

With a market capitalization of $67.2 billion, Viacom is worth four times as
much as Vivendi, three times as much as the News Corporation and nearly
twice as much as the Walt Disney Company. It is worth one-third more than
AOL Time Warner, though it is more than half the size in revenue.

Analysts attribute much of Viacom's current favor on Wall Street to the fact
that it avoided the costly Internet missteps of other media companies. As
important, it has so far avoided the management upheaval that often
accompanies mergers of old- and new-media companies.

"Viacom does a great job of cross-promotion," Mr. Bibb said. "Karmazin has
got Dan Rather doing spots for `60 Minutes II' on 1010 WINS," one of two
news radio stations in New York owned by Viacom.

Contrast that to AOL Time Warner, where Mr. Pittman was unable to persuade
the company's divisions to cooperate in selling basic advertising packages
to clients. Time Warner always had a tendency toward warring fiefs, but that
tendency was aggravated by resentment on the part of Time Warner executives
toward their new AOL colleagues, whom they viewed as arrogant.

"The fiefdoms at Time Warner are here to stay," said John Tinker, the head
of research at Blaylock & Partners in New York. "That dreaded word `synergy'
is dead for at least a couple of years."


INTERNECINE rivalries also hurt Mr. Middelhoff at Bertelsmann. Founded in
1835 as a publisher of Lutheran hymnals, Bertelsmann, which is privately
owned and based in Guterslφh, Germany, is so decentralized that the pay of
senior executives is tied to the performance of their units, not the overall
company.

Executives at the company said that in tandem with his push into the
Internet, Mr. Middelhoff was trying to centralize control of Bertelsmann in
his hands. When he announced the investment in Napster, for example, he did
it without BMG's management.

Mr. Middelhoff also vowed to take Bertelsmann public by 2005. In the end,
his ambitions collided with Bertelsmann's controlling shareholders, the
family of Reinhard Mohn, who feared that their power would be eroded.

The ouster of Mr. Middelhoff and his counterparts has prompted much talk
that the company will return to an old-media industry. That is misplaced,
however, and some experts say, even a little dangerous.

Convergence — whether defined as the melding of content and distribution or
the fusing of traditional media properties with the Internet — is already
well under way.

Unless companies learn to harness digital technology and the Internet,
experts say, they risk having the underlying economics of their businesses
sabotaged by it. Viacom's go-slow approach might make sense for a film and
TV company that is lubricated by advertising. It makes less sense for
Vivendi and Bertelsmann, with vulnerable music companies.

Barry Diller has stood at the treacherous intersection of old and new media
for a decade. Perhaps that is why he seems unruffled by the latest turmoil
in the boardrooms of big media conglomerates.

"The underlying issue, of course, is executing what you have converged,"
said Mr. Diller, who runs USA Interactive and oversees Universal Pictures
and the other American properties of Vivendi. Doing so "takes time and
patience, and it takes not having the rug pulled out from under you
prematurely," he added.

That is cold comfort for Messrs. Middelhoff, Messier and Pittman, three
prophets of convergence whose words, for now at least, have fallen on deaf
ears.

To Encourage Recovery, Encourage Investors
By MURIEL SIEBERT


The gravity of the crisis in our financial markets cannot be overstated. Not
only have investors lost significant assets, but they have also lost their
faith in the integrity of the system. Solving these problems will take a
commitment by our government and society equal to the severity of the
situation.

Part of the process is already under way. Confidence in the stock market —
which remains volatile — has recovered somewhat since former executives of
Adelphia and WorldCom were led away in handcuffs and strong new legislation
on corporate governance was signed into law by President Bush. Confidence
may be further strengthened as chief executives certify their financial
results, as the Securities and Exchange Commission has required them to do
by Aug. 14.

Unfortunately, restoration of confidence alone will not be enough. Even if
we jail all those responsible for the recent debacle and somehow recover all
the money they misappropriated, it will do little to replace the more than
$7 trillion in wealth that has been lost since March 2000. Many Americans
have seen their nest eggs devastated. For our system to recover, small
investors must see that the government takes their plight seriously and
recognizes the need for relief. We must quickly give individual investors a
chance to rebuild their portfolios and incentives to return to — and thus
preserve — our capital markets.

The most effective way to meet these objectives would be to double for three
to five years the amount that investors can put into their 401(k) plans and
individual retirement accounts. Currently individuals can contribute $3,000
annually to their I.R.A.'s and $11,000 annually to their 401(k) plans. These
limits were increased slightly last year. Doubling them would benefit
individual investors in several ways, providing additional income tax
deductions and replenishing their tax-deferred portfolios.

To encourage participation in the program, investors would be able to reach
the new maximum by placing stocks, bonds and mutual funds in their
retirement accounts as well as cash. With additional assets set aside,
participants will be well positioned to benefit from recovering stock prices
and higher interest rates. The only cost to the government would be the loss
of tax revenues on the additional income diverted into 401(k) plans and
I.R.A.'s. This is a small price to pay to give so many people the chance to
help themselves.

Some might question how willing individual investors will be to put
additional funds in equities, given the current uncertainty in the stock
market. And investors may well decide on a more balanced approach in the
future, dividing their holdings among stocks and bonds. Longer term,
however, history suggests that equities are the better investment: returns
are higher than the alternatives. Whatever decisions investors make, it will
only strengthen the system by which our government and corporations raise
money to pay for expansion.

Aside from the remedial aspects of this plan, there is broader justification
for its implementation. Without such help, the first generation of baby
boomers will likely hit 65 underfunded for retirement, placing more
political pressure to increase benefits in a Social Security system already
facing a difficult future.

This aftershock of the current crisis is one we must move to prevent now,
while we still can. Otherwise we may find ourselves still cursing today's
business scoundrels decades from now.

The trauma has put our capital markets in grave danger. Coupled with stiff
jail terms and disgorgement of ill-gotten gains for those who caused this
crisis, this proposal can help put our markets back on sound footing. It can
also help a generation of Americans feel more confident about their plans
for a secure retirement.

Muriel Siebert, chairwoman and chief executive of Siebert Financial Corp.,
was superintendent of banking for New York State from 1977 to 1982.

Paul, you are so right..I'm expecting it to do the same thing, its just
funny watching so called stock experts saying that the price of stock is
low, don't purchase, wait until the price comes up!  UP?  What on Earth! :)

Have a great weekend everyone!

Thomas Roy Garner - 4580576 (ICQ)
TRGarner Homepage ( http://home.earthlink.net/~trgarne/ )
SETIPRIME ( http://www.setiprime.com )


-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Hess [mailto:hess@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 3:52 AM
To: goldclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [goldclub] Stock Market / News Casters - Chicken Little


I feel the worst is probably over, but I'm expecting it to bounce around
quite a bit for a while.  There are still some nasty hits the market can
take:  inflation, housing bubble burst, interest rates, etc.  Also, when the
dow went *UP* as high as 6500 Greenspan called us irrationally exhuberant
(sp??).

At 8:15 PM -0700 7/19/02, Thomas Roy Garner wrote:
>True, I concur, I guess, I'm just totally amazed at all the news casts,
>living in California, if its not about kidnapping, dead squid (yes...), its
>about the stock.
>
>I do believe that any future purchase needs to be heavily weighed in to,
but
>just keep my "edge" up, does one think the market can actually go lower?  I
>know that there is no way to time the market, but man, what I could do to
>have 1k-5k right now! :)
>
>Can one image five or ten years from now, what the stories are going to be?
>Ok, the old Motley Fool has kicked in, I'm back to reality.  Again, have a
>great weekend everyone!
>
>Thomas Roy Garner - 4580576 (ICQ)
>TRGarner Homepage ( http://home.earthlink.net/~trgarne/ )
>SETIPRIME ( http://www.setiprime.com )
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael Keller [mailto:m.w.keller@...]
>Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 6:55 PM
>To: goldclub@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [goldclub] Stock Market / News Casters - Chicken Little
>
>
>I can't see moving money out of stocks right now. It's a good time to buy.
>But we need to be careful in what we buy, because there is an issue of
TRUST
>that didn't exist a year ago.
>
>
>
>|-----Original Message-----
>|
>
>|
>|Seriously, what is everyone's view on this down turn and the
>|sudden interest
>|in moving money out of stocks into "whatever"?  Am I just not seeing "the
>|big picture"?
>|
>|
>|
>
>
>
>Subscribe: goldclub-subscribe@egroups.com
>Unsubscribe: goldclub-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>Moderator: goldclub-owner@egroups.com
>Web: <http://www.egroups.com/group/goldclub>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
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I feel the worst is probably over, but I'm expecting it to bounce around quite a
bit for a while.  There are still some nasty hits the market can take: 
inflation, housing bubble burst, interest rates, etc.  Also, when the dow went
*UP* as high as 6500 Greenspan called us irrationally exhuberant (sp??).

At 8:15 PM -0700 7/19/02, Thomas Roy Garner wrote:
>True, I concur, I guess, I'm just totally amazed at all the news casts,
>living in California, if its not about kidnapping, dead squid (yes...), its
>about the stock.
>
>I do believe that any future purchase needs to be heavily weighed in to, but
>just keep my "edge" up, does one think the market can actually go lower?  I
>know that there is no way to time the market, but man, what I could do to
>have 1k-5k right now! :)
>
>Can one image five or ten years from now, what the stories are going to be?
>Ok, the old Motley Fool has kicked in, I'm back to reality.  Again, have a
>great weekend everyone!
>
>Thomas Roy Garner - 4580576 (ICQ)
>TRGarner Homepage ( http://home.earthlink.net/~trgarne/ )
>SETIPRIME ( http://www.setiprime.com )
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael Keller [mailto:m.w.keller@...]
>Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 6:55 PM
>To: goldclub@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [goldclub] Stock Market / News Casters - Chicken Little
>
>
>I can't see moving money out of stocks right now. It's a good time to buy.
>But we need to be careful in what we buy, because there is an issue of TRUST
>that didn't exist a year ago.
>
>
>
>|-----Original Message-----
>|
>
>|
>|Seriously, what is everyone's view on this down turn and the
>|sudden interest
>|in moving money out of stocks into "whatever"?  Am I just not seeing "the
>|big picture"?
>|
>|
>|
>
>
>
>Subscribe: goldclub-subscribe@egroups.com
>Unsubscribe: goldclub-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>Moderator: goldclub-owner@egroups.com
>Web: <http://www.egroups.com/group/goldclub>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
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>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

I am with Mike Keller. Let the stocks sit. I say we buy some.

It's a great time of the year for me

Donna

Reality Diva
http://www.reality411.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Roy Garner" <trgarne@...>
To: <goldclub@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 10:15 PM
Subject: RE: [goldclub] Stock Market / News Casters - Chicken Little


> True, I concur, I guess, I'm just totally amazed at all the news casts,
> living in California, if its not about kidnapping, dead squid (yes...),
its
> about the stock.
>
> I do believe that any future purchase needs to be heavily weighed in to,
but
> just keep my "edge" up, does one think the market can actually go lower?
I
> know that there is no way to time the market, but man, what I could do to
> have 1k-5k right now! :)
>
> Can one image five or ten years from now, what the stories are going to
be?
> Ok, the old Motley Fool has kicked in, I'm back to reality.  Again, have a
> great weekend everyone!
>
> Thomas Roy Garner - 4580576 (ICQ)
> TRGarner Homepage ( http://home.earthlink.net/~trgarne/ )
> SETIPRIME ( http://www.setiprime.com )
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Keller [mailto:m.w.keller@...]
> Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 6:55 PM
> To: goldclub@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [goldclub] Stock Market / News Casters - Chicken Little
>
>
> I can't see moving money out of stocks right now. It's a good time to buy.
> But we need to be careful in what we buy, because there is an issue of
TRUST
> that didn't exist a year ago.
>
>
>
> |-----Original Message-----
> |
>
> |
> |Seriously, what is everyone's view on this down turn and the
> |sudden interest
> |in moving money out of stocks into "whatever"?  Am I just not seeing "the
> |big picture"?
> |
> |
> |
>
>
>
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>

I'm off to Hilton Head for a week, you guys have fun, and talk about me
while I'm gone.

Mike Keller
http://www.mikekellerphoto.com

"In Genesis, it says that it is not good for a man to be alone; but
sometimes it is a great relief." - John Barrymore
|

True, I concur, I guess, I'm just totally amazed at all the news casts,
living in California, if its not about kidnapping, dead squid (yes...), its
about the stock.

I do believe that any future purchase needs to be heavily weighed in to, but
just keep my "edge" up, does one think the market can actually go lower?  I
know that there is no way to time the market, but man, what I could do to
have 1k-5k right now! :)

Can one image five or ten years from now, what the stories are going to be?
Ok, the old Motley Fool has kicked in, I'm back to reality.  Again, have a
great weekend everyone!

Thomas Roy Garner - 4580576 (ICQ)
TRGarner Homepage ( http://home.earthlink.net/~trgarne/ )
SETIPRIME ( http://www.setiprime.com )


-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Keller [mailto:m.w.keller@...]
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 6:55 PM
To: goldclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [goldclub] Stock Market / News Casters - Chicken Little


I can't see moving money out of stocks right now. It's a good time to buy.
But we need to be careful in what we buy, because there is an issue of TRUST
that didn't exist a year ago.



|-----Original Message-----
|

|
|Seriously, what is everyone's view on this down turn and the
|sudden interest
|in moving money out of stocks into "whatever"?  Am I just not seeing "the
|big picture"?
|
|
|



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I can't see moving money out of stocks right now. It's a good time to buy.
But we need to be careful in what we buy, because there is an issue of TRUST
that didn't exist a year ago.



|-----Original Message-----
|

|
|Seriously, what is everyone's view on this down turn and the
|sudden interest
|in moving money out of stocks into "whatever"?  Am I just not seeing "the
|big picture"?
|
|
|

Ok,

I've been very very quiet, but enough as enough (and I can't stands no
more).  I am SO SICK of everyone screaming about the market, and the
absolute worst are these so called "stock" people that are saying to pull
money out of stocks, some even suggesting to put money in to a SAVINGS
ACCOUNT to ride out the "turbulence".  Ok, maybe I'm naive or something, but
has any of the Fortune 500 suddenly been removed from Wall Street?

We should be preaching that today, right now, Friday if you bought stocks,
you should get the medal of Freedom, for purchasing and NOT SELLING, today,
is the GOLDEN ERA to purchase stocks, look @ the WONDERFUL, low prices, that
we, can all enjoy.

So to those that have purchased stocks and not moved any money away from
stocks, I salute you (after all I am an Active Duty E5 US Navy Enlisted
Personnel) and say "Job well-done".

Seriously, what is everyone's view on this down turn and the sudden interest
in moving money out of stocks into "whatever"?  Am I just not seeing "the
big picture"?

Thank you for your time and enjoy the weekend everyone, you deserved it!

Thomas Roy Garner - 4580576 (ICQ)
TRGarner Homepage ( http://home.earthlink.net/~trgarne/ )
SETIPRIME ( http://www.setiprime.com )

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Printed out my June statement.. THANKS for the great job, statements look
very professional.  As always great job and thank you for allowing me to be
part of this fine organization.

Thomas Roy Garner - 4580576 (ICQ)
TRGarner Homepage ( http://home.earthlink.net/~trgarne/ )
SETIPRIME ( http://www.setiprime.com )

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Hi All,

I just noticed that APWR has not only dipped below $30, in the past week it's
dropped from $23 to $17.  Based on my old analysis of their growth and prospects
I would say this is a great price, but I have no idea what's going on with this
stock (no public news that I could find).  Given the radical price move for no
apparent reason and the number of companies with scandals that arise I can't in
good conscience recommend it to the group (since we're fairly conservative) but
it will be interesting to watch!

                            - Paul


At 8:01 AM -0400 10/12/01, Paul Hess wrote:
>Also I've been watching APWR (mentioned previously) and was going to recommend
it to the group if it dipped down to $30.  It never dipped that low and now it's
taken off again.  I feel like I missed the boat!   :)
>
>At 7:06 PM -0400 10/11/01, Michael Keller wrote:
>>
>>Two others I was looking at are Paychex and TJX Companies (owns TJ Maxx,
>>Marshalls and other discount stores).

I have no problem w/ the purchase of this software, as long as our esteemed
treasurer thinks it is worthy of use.  Also, when/if you purchase thi
software, why not make a small report about it.  I'm curious to see any
plus/minus on the use...

Of course, ONLY when you have time! :)

Thomas Roy Garner - 4580576 (ICQ)
TRGarner Homepage ( http://home.earthlink.net/~trgarne/index.htm )
SETIPRIME ( http://www.setiprime.com )


-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Hess [mailto:hess@...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 11:05 AM
To: Lanny L. Vrooman; Tom Garner; Richard Scott; m.w.keller@...;
Donna
Cc: goldclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [goldclub] Re: May Statements


Hi Lanny,

I had been meaning to respond to your prior note about the software and
unfortunately never got to it!

I wanted to ask if you have reconsidered bivio as an alternative recently?
I really like the idea of having all of the information accessible by club
members online, the direct link to brokers, and being able to choose in the
future to take advantage of the additional convenience services the offer.It
seems like it would in the end be less overall work once a conversion were
made.  I know that backups were one of your concerns but all the
transactions can be captured and saved off-line in case of a catastrophe.

    <http://www.bivio.com/hm/press.html>

Given the wonderful job you do keeping track of things for us, and the time
and professionalism you put into it, I am going to vote to support the
suggestion that you make in terms of what will be most appropriate for us.
But I wanted to hear your final thoughts on bivio before voting to go with
the NAIC upgrade.

                                           - Paul



At 11:20 AM -0400 6/25/02, Lanny L. Vrooman wrote:
>Hi Goldsters....
> Because of the problem I had this last time I would like to make a
suggestion that we purchase NAIC software.



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Hi Lanny,

I had been meaning to respond to your prior note about the software and
unfortunately never got to it!

I wanted to ask if you have reconsidered bivio as an alternative recently?  I
really like the idea of having all of the information accessible by club members
online, the direct link to brokers, and being able to choose in the future to
take advantage of the additional convenience services the offer.It seems like it
would in the end be less overall work once a conversion were made.  I know that
backups were one of your concerns but all the transactions can be captured and
saved off-line in case of a catastrophe.

    <http://www.bivio.com/hm/press.html>

Given the wonderful job you do keeping track of things for us, and the time and
professionalism you put into it, I am going to vote to support the suggestion
that you make in terms of what will be most appropriate for us.  But I wanted to
hear your final thoughts on bivio before voting to go with the NAIC upgrade.

                                           - Paul



At 11:20 AM -0400 6/25/02, Lanny L. Vrooman wrote:
>Hi Goldsters....
> Because of the problem I had this last time I would like to make a suggestion
that we purchase NAIC software.

Greetings:

Question, has a deposit from me been received anytime recently?  If not; when
was the last
time received?

Also, please change my address (for deposit statements) from @yahoo.com back to
trgarne@..., sorry for the hassle, but I just realized my @yahoo world
is filling up
to much.. I wanted to use it, but alas... :)

Thank you and have a great day!

Is there any way to bring the petition below to the attention of your membership?

If people don't act eventually all "Fee Free" DRIPs will disappear.

http://www.petitiononline.com/pita/petition.html

If you feel the petition has merit please pass it on the people who might benefit.

Thank you,

Bob Gibb

Hi All,

If we wish to sell MOT and then buy it back after 30 days that's OK with me. 
Generally our strategy is to buy & hold and, if we're unlucky, we could miss the
start of the move (although I agree with Lanny that it's not likely to be that
soon).  I think Motorola is underpriced right now and represents a good value
for a good company in an exciting industry (several exciting industries
actually).

In the meantime, I wanted to take this chance to lobby for you all to vote YES
to sell 1/2 of our Viacom stock holdings.  It is running at a fairly high price
now, and we can lock in our gains on that stock while still maintaining a more
diversified set of technology stocks (MOT, Via, and the others).  We have held
it more than 1 year, so these would be long term capital gains which is the most
efficient type of gains to sell (and the gains probably would be offset by some
of our other sales?).

                                              - Paul


At 7:30 PM -0500 3/21/02, Lanny L. Vrooman wrote:
> My reasoning on the stock selection to sell.
>
>1. By selling the stocks I mentioned we would not incur any capital gains.
>2. If we decide we like the stocks well enough we can by it back as long as we
wait 30 days.  Have taken a loss and get it cheaper so when it does go up we
make a profit.  See attached MOT 5 year graph.
>
> I understand Pauls' reasoning, but I think we stand making more on buying back
MOT after the 30 days especially after the note from Paul that MOT expects to
see growth in 2003.
>
> Any other comments before vote deadline Sunday?
>
>Lanny
>
>Attachment converted: Titan HD:Mot.jpg (JPEG/JVWR) (000BDB06)

Hi All ... see below.  Contact Brice directly if you are interested.

At 7:43 AM -0800 3/19/02, Brice Wightman wrote:
>all 42, individual.
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Paul Hess" <hess@...>
>To: <bricew@...>
>Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 7:37 AM
>Subject: Re: MODERATE -- bricew@... posted to goldclub
>
>
>> Hi Brice,
>>
>> I'd be interested, and I'm sure some of the other club members would also.
>How would you work this?  Would it be a single sign-in that club members
>would share, or would you make an offer to the existing members (42
>discussion group participants) to get their own trial memberships?
>>
>>                                     - Paul
>>
>> >The message summary:
>> >--------------------
>> >FROM: bricew@...
>> >DATE: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 06:58:55 -0800
>> >SUBJECT: Re: [goldclub] Motorola Wireless Growth
> > >
> > >Paul- I would like to give the group
> > >a free three-month membership to
>> >http://www.TradingMarkets.com. Please call me and I'll set
>> >you up. Brice
>>
>>

I've had a chance to look at our stocks.  I agree with Lanny's opinion on GTNR
and PIXR, but I'd be interested in selling Viacom rather than Motorola.  The
stock is selling at 3-1/2 times sales which is much higher than it has been
historically.  It's had a good runup in recent months (from $30 to $50) and by
selling we can take advantage of that higher price.  Also, it's currently our
largest holding and by selling 1/2 of it we can raise the targetted amount of
money and still stay more diversified (we have a lot in that type of
telcomm/tech industry so it makes sense to spread those bets).

So my proposal would be to sell:

(ALL) GTNR       $600
(ALL) PIXR       $600
(1/2) VIA.B     $2050


At 8:43 AM -0500 3/13/02, Lanny L. Vrooman wrote:
> ... I would like to suggest that we sell all of:
>
>Symbol  Total Return  Compound Ann. Return Est. Value
>
>MOT  -62% 	 -11% 	 $2200
>GTNR  -23% 	 -14% 	 $ 475
>PIXR  -21% 	 - 6% 	 $ 575
>
>Total 						 $3250

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