--- In ibmunion@yahoogroups.com, ignatz713 <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> --- In ibmunion@yahoogroups.com, Paly <pal409@> wrote:
> >
> > OK I'll bite, what s a "first choicer"?
> >
>
> As noted, a First Choicer was an employee within 5 years of
> retirement eligibility in June 1999. A First Choicer was given the
> option to take the CB plan or the old pension plan. In addition,
the
> First Choicers kept the lifetime retiree medical.
>
> Second Choicers were not within 5 years of retirement eligibility
in
> June 1999 and were put on the CB plan and the FHA. After the Senate
> hearings, at which Janet testified, the Second Choicers were given
> the choice of the old pension plan or the CB plan but were only
given
> the FHA.
>
> I cannot remember the cutoff for the No Choicers, but they were
given
> the CB plan and the FHA.
>

The no-choicers had were less than age 40 or had less than 10 years
of service on July 1, 1999.  You are correct that they get the CB
plan (no choice) along with the FHA (maybe).  The catch for them is
they don't get the FHA if they are not an employee until past age
55.  Second choicers can get it at any age after 30 years of service.

--- In ibmunion@yahoogroups.com, Paly <pal409@...> wrote:
>
> OK I'll bite, what s a "first choicer"?
>

As noted, a First Choicer was an employee within 5 years of
retirement eligibility in June 1999. A First Choicer was given the
option to take the CB plan or the old pension plan. In addition, the
First Choicers kept the lifetime retiree medical.

Second Choicers were not within 5 years of retirement eligibility in
June 1999 and were put on the CB plan and the FHA. After the Senate
hearings, at which Janet testified, the Second Choicers were given
the choice of the old pension plan or the CB plan but were only given
the FHA.

I cannot remember the cutoff for the No Choicers, but they were given
the CB plan and the FHA.

> ignatz713 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:                               --- In
ibmunion@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <bobc4012@> wrote:
>  >
>
>  SouthernYankee stated the case about the old IBM, yes he did.
Quite
>  well indeed.
>
>  Then Southern Yankee said:
>
>  'At IBM, there will never be a cut back on quality or
dependability'
>
>  'The company treats its employees with respect'
>
>  SouthernYankee is living in the past. Period. No problem. Good for
>  him.
>
>  Obviously too that he is a First Choicer when it comes to pension
and
>  retiree medical. Good for him.
>
>  And obviously he moved out of New York. Good for him again.
>
>  >
>  > I thought SouthernYankee stated the case quite well. The only
>  > point on which I might quibble to a degree is the "degree of
>  > respect shown to the individual". IBM can be very subtle and,
>  > at times quite blunt, in the way it shows "respect for the
>  > individual". Also, it isn't always the fault of top level
>  > management, as lower and middle management apply their own
>  > spin to the decisions being made. Of course, top level
>  > management should always ensure but doesn't) the appropriate
>  > controls are in place to quickly address "misinterpretations".
>  >
>
>  >Also, it isn't always the fault of top level
>  > management, as lower and middle management apply their own
>  > spin to the decisions being made
>
>  You're joking, right? Are you still working? Are you familiar with
>  first level management?
>
>  > Nobody was ever guaranteed a job in this world. To expect that
>  > guarantee is ludicrous. Granted, workers have a right in this
>  > country to organize and negotiate a better "business deal" with
>  > the company with which they are currently employed, but there
>  > is no guarantee that be given a job IF there is no legally
>  > binding contract stating such. If that contract demand will
>  > not be met, then you either have the option of applying
>  > elsewhere for a job or go on strike (if recognized as a union).
>  >
>  > What concerns me more is what he stated in his post on "Thu
>  > Sep 27, 2007 8:48 am" about IBM eventually pulling out of the
>  > US like so many companies have done. I know GM has just signed
>  > a contract guaranteeing they won't leave, but a few more losing
>  > quarters and then a declaration of bankruptcy and they will
>  > be gone.
>  >
>  > Don't expect government to solve the problem either. What you
>  > would end up with is a communist dictatorship. Socialism has
>  > an extremely high cost as Europe has been finding out. Where
>  > there used to be job guarantees and other guarantees, some
>  > countries are now backing off. While Republicans tend to favor
>  > tax breaks for business, Democrats will tax business to death
>  > (except for the earmarks to the businesses in their own
>  > congressional districts or states). So don't expect real help
>  > from either party.
>  >
>
>  Absolutely not. It's all on us to monitor and control. Good luck
to
>  us all.
>
>  > One difference between many of the Europeans and the Americans,
>  > is that Europeans will still try to buy products made in their
>  > own country (or least Europe), whereas Americans will buy that
>  > cheap crap made in China. My wife and I always check for the
>  > place of manufacture and buy "Made in America", even if it
>  > costs a few dollars more, otherwise we won't buy it (exception
>  > is that rare instance when we have no other choice and
>  > absolutely need it).
>
>  And you FIND stuff 'made in America'? Wow. I have been trying to
do
>  that for years and years, and with very few exceptions, find it
>  impossible.
>
>  And its just not Wal-Mart (a favorite
>  > whipping boy of the Socialists in this country), but every
>  > store. We were in Linens and Things the other day to get some
>  > towels. All the "Made in America" brands were being fazed out
>  > and replaced with "Made in China". We did not buy. I went to
>  > get new tires for my car and was told they were made in Korea.
>  > I checked the tires and found they were made in China, but the
>  > company was a Korean company. Sears, K-Mart, Target, automotive
>  > parts, grocery stores, ad nauseam, are all selling crap made or
>  > grown in China. The American suckers keep gobbling the stuff up.
>  >
>
>  In addition, even if it says 'made in America' there will be parts
>  made overseas.
>
>  We've given this country away.
>
>  > At some point this country will have to pay up, but I guess that
>  > as long as the younger generations still can buy there "made in
>  > China" X-boxes and other "Made in China" electronics and sit
>  > around smoking that "funny weed" and sucking down beer they will
>  > be happy.
>  >
>
>  Bingo. And use their cell phones. And their ipods. And drive their
>  SUVs. And get their interest-only mortgages. And ignore the war
being
>  fought 'over there' so we can be safe 'over here'.
>
>  Give this country another 10-15 and watch the Second Choicers
>  suddenly say on this list:  HEY, what's going on, dude? What the
heck
>  happened when I wasn't looking?
>
>  Mark my words.
>
>  > I apologize for the long ramble, but every now and then I get
>  > set off.
>  >
>
>  And you're mostly right. Thanks for the thoughts.
>
>  > --- In ibmunion@yahoogroups.com, ignatz713 <no_reply@> wrote:
>  > >
>  > >> Interesting article. Looks like SouthernYankee doesn't read
much.
>  > >
>  > > --- In ibmunion@yahoogroups.com, "Frank  Carbone Jr."
>  > > <forthebirds39@> wrote:
>  > > >
>  > > > http://forums.poughkeepsiejournal.com/viewforum.php?f=97
>  > > >
>  >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Building a website is a piece of cake.
> Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I wanted to respond to this comment because I think its important to
point out some interesting things-
The comment was, 'I know GM has just signed
a contract guaranteeing they won't leave, but a few more losing
quarters and then a declaration of bankruptcy and they will
be gone.'
Well, I don't know who they signed a contract with, but consider
this; GM (likewise for FORD) have been laying off workers, closing
plants and at the same time making multi-BILLION dollar commitments
to Comunist China for new manufacturing plants. You can Google that
info and check it out. The net here is folks, that these jobs are
leaving America FOR GOOD for CHEAP LABOR markets in Communist China
and elswhere. ANd just like Mattel Toys, GM can have a 'brand' in
the US and manufacture absolutely NOTHING! Where and how do you
think that American jobs are disappearing to? And BTW, the unions
are not stepping up to this issue. And the former friends of Labor,
the Democratic party is selling out as fast as lobbyist can write
the checks to them! That, my friends, is what is going on.

--- In ibmunion@yahoogroups.com, bboru11 <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> Alliance@IBM CWA Local 1701
> and Global IBM Unions
> to Hold Emergency Meeting
> in Paris June 26- June 28
>
> Endicott, N.Y. -- In response to job cuts, job shifting to low
cost
> countries and declining working conditions at IBM Corp.,
(NYSE:IBM),
> employee representatives, IBM union officials, IBM Works Council
> representatives and members of the International Labor Federations
> will hold an emergency meeting in Paris.
>
> This historic meeting will be attended by IBM employee
> representatives from 12 countries.
> The meeting is being sponsored by
> IBM Workers International Solidarity (IWIS), the CFDT --
> Confederation Francaise Democratique du Travail -- and the CGT --
> Confederation Generale du Travail..
>
> Lee Conrad, National Coordinator of the Alliance@IBM, a local of
the
> Communications Workers of America, AFL-CIO, said, "IBM workers in
> many countries are facing a serious decline in working conditions,
> job security and salary. IBM Corporate management is aggressively
> reshaping the company to the detriment of employees and customers.
> There is also a serious concern for employees with collective
> bargaining agreements that IBM will use job shifting to low cost
> countries as a hammer to demand concessions. If that happens all
> employees suffer."
>
> IWIS Coordinator Jean-Claude Vilespy said, "This meeting is a
unique
> opportunity for IBM unionists to get together to discuss how we
can
> best meet this crisis and develop action plans to protect the
> interests of our members and employees at IBM."
>
> Other issues of concern that will be discussed are:
>
> * Human impact of work overload
> * The LEAN process
> * IBM new salary plan
> * The PBC evaluation system
> * Benefit reductions
> * Professional mobility and other concerns
> * IBM's anti-union philosophy
>

Actually, a first choicer is one who was within 5-years of retirement
eligibility on July 1, 1999.

--- In ibmunion@yahoogroups.com, chz_whiz <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
>
> Fortunate.  Very fortunate.
>
>
>
> --- In ibmunion@yahoogroups.com, Paly <pal409@> wrote:
> >
> > OK I'll bite, what s a "first choicer"?
> >
> > ignatz713 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
> wrote:                               --- In
> ibmunion@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <bobc4012@> wrote:
> >  >
> >
> >  SouthernYankee stated the case about the old IBM, yes he did.
> Quite
> >  well indeed.
> >
> >  Then Southern Yankee said:
> >
> >  'At IBM, there will never be a cut back on quality or
> dependability'
> >
> >  'The company treats its employees with respect'
> >
> >  SouthernYankee is living in the past. Period. No problem. Good
for
> >  him.
> >
> >  Obviously too that he is a First Choicer when it comes to
pension
> and
> >  retiree medical. Good for him.
> >
> >  And obviously he moved out of New York. Good for him again.
> >
> >  >
> >  > I thought SouthernYankee stated the case quite well. The only
> >  > point on which I might quibble to a degree is the "degree of
> >  > respect shown to the individual". IBM can be very subtle and,
> >  > at times quite blunt, in the way it shows "respect for the
> >  > individual". Also, it isn't always the fault of top level
> >  > management, as lower and middle management apply their own
> >  > spin to the decisions being made. Of course, top level
> >  > management should always ensure but doesn't) the appropriate
> >  > controls are in place to quickly
address "misinterpretations".
> >  >
> >
> >  >Also, it isn't always the fault of top level
> >  > management, as lower and middle management apply their own
> >  > spin to the decisions being made
> >
> >  You're joking, right? Are you still working? Are you familiar
with
> >  first level management?
> >
> >  > Nobody was ever guaranteed a job in this world. To expect that
> >  > guarantee is ludicrous. Granted, workers have a right in this
> >  > country to organize and negotiate a better "business deal" with
> >  > the company with which they are currently employed, but there
> >  > is no guarantee that be given a job IF there is no legally
> >  > binding contract stating such. If that contract demand will
> >  > not be met, then you either have the option of applying
> >  > elsewhere for a job or go on strike (if recognized as a
union).
> >  >
> >  > What concerns me more is what he stated in his post on "Thu
> >  > Sep 27, 2007 8:48 am" about IBM eventually pulling out of the
> >  > US like so many companies have done. I know GM has just signed
> >  > a contract guaranteeing they won't leave, but a few more losing
> >  > quarters and then a declaration of bankruptcy and they will
> >  > be gone.
> >  >
> >  > Don't expect government to solve the problem either. What you
> >  > would end up with is a communist dictatorship. Socialism has
> >  > an extremely high cost as Europe has been finding out. Where
> >  > there used to be job guarantees and other guarantees, some
> >  > countries are now backing off. While Republicans tend to favor
> >  > tax breaks for business, Democrats will tax business to death
> >  > (except for the earmarks to the businesses in their own
> >  > congressional districts or states). So don't expect real help
> >  > from either party.
> >  >
> >
> >  Absolutely not. It's all on us to monitor and control. Good luck
> to
> >  us all.
> >
> >  > One difference between many of the Europeans and the
Americans,
> >  > is that Europeans will still try to buy products made in their
> >  > own country (or least Europe), whereas Americans will buy that
> >  > cheap crap made in China. My wife and I always check for the
> >  > place of manufacture and buy "Made in America", even if it
> >  > costs a few dollars more, otherwise we won't buy it (exception
> >  > is that rare instance when we have no other choice and
> >  > absolutely need it).
> >
> >  And you FIND stuff 'made in America'? Wow. I have been trying to
> do
> >  that for years and years, and with very few exceptions, find it
> >  impossible.
> >
> >  And its just not Wal-Mart (a favorite
> >  > whipping boy of the Socialists in this country), but every
> >  > store. We were in Linens and Things the other day to get some
> >  > towels. All the "Made in America" brands were being fazed out
> >  > and replaced with "Made in China". We did not buy. I went to
> >  > get new tires for my car and was told they were made in Korea.
> >  > I checked the tires and found they were made in China, but the
> >  > company was a Korean company. Sears, K-Mart, Target,
automotive
> >  > parts, grocery stores, ad nauseam, are all selling crap made
or
> >  > grown in China. The American suckers keep gobbling the stuff
up.
> >  >
> >
> >  In addition, even if it says 'made in America' there will be
parts
> >  made overseas.
> >
> >  We've given this country away.
> >
> >  > At some point this country will have to pay up, but I guess
that
> >  > as long as the younger generations still can buy there "made in
> >  > China" X-boxes and other "Made in China" electronics and sit
> >  > around smoking that "funny weed" and sucking down beer they
will
> >  > be happy.
> >  >
> >
> >  Bingo. And use their cell phones. And their ipods. And drive
their
> >  SUVs. And get their interest-only mortgages. And ignore the war
> being
> >  fought 'over there' so we can be safe 'over here'.
> >
> >  Give this country another 10-15 and watch the Second Choicers
> >  suddenly say on this list:  HEY, what's going on, dude? What the
> heck
> >  happened when I wasn't looking?
> >
> >  Mark my words.
> >
> >  > I apologize for the long ramble, but every now and then I get
> >  > set off.
> >  >
> >
> >  And you're mostly right. Thanks for the thoughts.
> >
> >  > --- In ibmunion@yahoogroups.com, ignatz713 <no_reply@> wrote:
> >  > >
> >  > >> Interesting article. Looks like SouthernYankee doesn't read
> much.
> >  > >
> >  > > --- In ibmunion@yahoogroups.com, "Frank  Carbone Jr."
> >  > > <forthebirds39@> wrote:
> >  > > >
> >  > > > http://forums.poughkeepsiejournal.com/viewforum.php?f=97
> >  > > >
> >  >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Building a website is a piece of cake.
> > Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

Fortunate.  Very fortunate.



--- In ibmunion@yahoogroups.com, Paly <pal409@...> wrote:
>
> OK I'll bite, what s a "first choicer"?
>
> ignatz713 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:                               --- In
ibmunion@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <bobc4012@> wrote:
>  >
>
>  SouthernYankee stated the case about the old IBM, yes he did.
Quite
>  well indeed.
>
>  Then Southern Yankee said:
>
>  'At IBM, there will never be a cut back on quality or
dependability'
>
>  'The company treats its employees with respect'
>
>  SouthernYankee is living in the past. Period. No problem. Good for
>  him.
>
>  Obviously too that he is a First Choicer when it comes to pension
and
>  retiree medical. Good for him.
>
>  And obviously he moved out of New York. Good for him again.
>
>  >
>  > I thought SouthernYankee stated the case quite well. The only
>  > point on which I might quibble to a degree is the "degree of
>  > respect shown to the individual". IBM can be very subtle and,
>  > at times quite blunt, in the way it shows "respect for the
>  > individual". Also, it isn't always the fault of top level
>  > management, as lower and middle management apply their own
>  > spin to the decisions being made. Of course, top level
>  > management should always ensure but doesn't) the appropriate
>  > controls are in place to quickly address "misinterpretations".
>  >
>
>  >Also, it isn't always the fault of top level
>  > management, as lower and middle management apply their own
>  > spin to the decisions being made
>
>  You're joking, right? Are you still working? Are you familiar with
>  first level management?
>
>  > Nobody was ever guaranteed a job in this world. To expect that
>  > guarantee is ludicrous. Granted, workers have a right in this
>  > country to organize and negotiate a better "business deal" with
>  > the company with which they are currently employed, but there
>  > is no guarantee that be given a job IF there is no legally
>  > binding contract stating such. If that contract demand will
>  > not be met, then you either have the option of applying
>  > elsewhere for a job or go on strike (if recognized as a union).
>  >
>  > What concerns me more is what he stated in his post on "Thu
>  > Sep 27, 2007 8:48 am" about IBM eventually pulling out of the
>  > US like so many companies have done. I know GM has just signed
>  > a contract guaranteeing they won't leave, but a few more losing
>  > quarters and then a declaration of bankruptcy and they will
>  > be gone.
>  >
>  > Don't expect government to solve the problem either. What you
>  > would end up with is a communist dictatorship. Socialism has
>  > an extremely high cost as Europe has been finding out. Where
>  > there used to be job guarantees and other guarantees, some
>  > countries are now backing off. While Republicans tend to favor
>  > tax breaks for business, Democrats will tax business to death
>  > (except for the earmarks to the businesses in their own
>  > congressional districts or states). So don't expect real help
>  > from either party.
>  >
>
>  Absolutely not. It's all on us to monitor and control. Good luck
to
>  us all.
>
>  > One difference between many of the Europeans and the Americans,
>  > is that Europeans will still try to buy products made in their
>  > own country (or least Europe), whereas Americans will buy that
>  > cheap crap made in China. My wife and I always check for the
>  > place of manufacture and buy "Made in America", even if it
>  > costs a few dollars more, otherwise we won't buy it (exception
>  > is that rare instance when we have no other choice and
>  > absolutely need it).
>
>  And you FIND stuff 'made in America'? Wow. I have been trying to
do
>  that for years and years, and with very few exceptions, find it
>  impossible.
>
>  And its just not Wal-Mart (a favorite
>  > whipping boy of the Socialists in this country), but every
>  > store. We were in Linens and Things the other day to get some
>  > towels. All the "Made in America" brands were being fazed out
>  > and replaced with "Made in China". We did not buy. I went to
>  > get new tires for my car and was told they were made in Korea.
>  > I checked the tires and found they were made in China, but the
>  > company was a Korean company. Sears, K-Mart, Target, automotive
>  > parts, grocery stores, ad nauseam, are all selling crap made or
>  > grown in China. The American suckers keep gobbling the stuff up.
>  >
>
>  In addition, even if it says 'made in America' there will be parts
>  made overseas.
>
>  We've given this country away.
>
>  > At some point this country will have to pay up, but I guess that
>  > as long as the younger generations still can buy there "made in
>  > China" X-boxes and other "Made in China" electronics and sit
>  > around smoking that "funny weed" and sucking down beer they will
>  > be happy.
>  >
>
>  Bingo. And use their cell phones. And their ipods. And drive their
>  SUVs. And get their interest-only mortgages. And ignore the war
being
>  fought 'over there' so we can be safe 'over here'.
>
>  Give this country another 10-15 and watch the Second Choicers
>  suddenly say on this list:  HEY, what's going on, dude? What the
heck
>  happened when I wasn't looking?
>
>  Mark my words.
>
>  > I apologize for the long ramble, but every now and then I get
>  > set off.
>  >
>
>  And you're mostly right. Thanks for the thoughts.
>
>  > --- In ibmunion@yahoogroups.com, ignatz713 <no_reply@> wrote:
>  > >
>  > >> Interesting article. Looks like SouthernYankee doesn't read
much.
>  > >
>  > > --- In ibmunion@yahoogroups.com, "Frank  Carbone Jr."
>  > > <forthebirds39@> wrote:
>  > > >
>  > > > http://forums.poughkeepsiejournal.com/viewforum.php?f=97
>  > > >
>  >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Building a website is a piece of cake.
> Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

OK I'll bite, what s a "first choicer"?

ignatz713 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:                               --- In
ibmunion@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <bobc4012@...> wrote:
  >

  SouthernYankee stated the case about the old IBM, yes he did. Quite
  well indeed.

  Then Southern Yankee said:

  'At IBM, there will never be a cut back on quality or dependability'

  'The company treats its employees with respect'

  SouthernYankee is living in the past. Period. No problem. Good for
  him.

  Obviously too that he is a First Choicer when it comes to pension and
  retiree medical. Good for him.

  And obviously he moved out of New York. Good for him again.

  >
  > I thought SouthernYankee stated the case quite well. The only
  > point on which I might quibble to a degree is the "degree of
  > respect shown to the individual". IBM can be very subtle and,
  > at times quite blunt, in the way it shows "respect for the
  > individual". Also, it isn't always the fault of top level
  > management, as lower and middle management apply their own
  > spin to the decisions being made. Of course, top level
  > management should always ensure but doesn't) the appropriate
  > controls are in place to quickly address "misinterpretations".
  >

  >Also, it isn't always the fault of top level
  > management, as lower and middle management apply their own
  > spin to the decisions being made

  You're joking, right? Are you still working? Are you familiar with
  first level management?

  > Nobody was ever guaranteed a job in this world. To expect that
  > guarantee is ludicrous. Granted, workers have a right in this
  > country to organize and negotiate a better "business deal" with
  > the company with which they are currently employed, but there
  > is no guarantee that be given a job IF there is no legally
  > binding contract stating such. If that contract demand will
  > not be met, then you either have the option of applying
  > elsewhere for a job or go on strike (if recognized as a union).
  >
  > What concerns me more is what he stated in his post on "Thu
  > Sep 27, 2007 8:48 am" about IBM eventually pulling out of the
  > US like so many companies have done. I know GM has just signed
  > a contract guaranteeing they won't leave, but a few more losing
  > quarters and then a declaration of bankruptcy and they will
  > be gone.
  >
  > Don't expect government to solve the problem either. What you
  > would end up with is a communist dictatorship. Socialism has
  > an extremely high cost as Europe has been finding out. Where
  > there used to be job guarantees and other guarantees, some
  > countries are now backing off. While Republicans tend to favor
  > tax breaks for business, Democrats will tax business to death
  > (except for the earmarks to the businesses in their own
  > congressional districts or states). So don't expect real help
  > from either party.
  >

  Absolutely not. It's all on us to monitor and control. Good luck to
  us all.

  > One difference between many of the Europeans and the Americans,
  > is that Europeans will still try to buy products made in their
  > own country (or least Europe), whereas Americans will buy that
  > cheap crap made in China. My wife and I always check for the
  > place of manufacture and buy "Made in America", even if it
  > costs a few dollars more, otherwise we won't buy it (exception
  > is that rare instance when we have no other choice and
  > absolutely need it).

  And you FIND stuff 'made in America'? Wow. I have been trying to do
  that for years and years, and with very few exceptions, find it
  impossible.

  And its just not Wal-Mart (a favorite
  > whipping boy of the Socialists in this country), but every
  > store. We were in Linens and Things the other day to get some
  > towels. All the "Made in America" brands were being fazed out
  > and replaced with "Made in China". We did not buy. I went to
  > get new tires for my car and was told they were made in Korea.
  > I checked the tires and found they were made in China, but the
  > company was a Korean company. Sears, K-Mart, Target, automotive
  > parts, grocery stores, ad nauseam, are all selling crap made or
  > grown in China. The American suckers keep gobbling the stuff up.
  >

  In addition, even if it says 'made in America' there will be parts
  made overseas.

  We've given this country away.

  > At some point this country will have to pay up, but I guess that
  > as long as the younger generations still can buy there "made in
  > China" X-boxes and other "Made in China" electronics and sit
  > around smoking that "funny weed" and sucking down beer they will
  > be happy.
  >

  Bingo. And use their cell phones. And their ipods. And drive their
  SUVs. And get their interest-only mortgages. And ignore the war being
  fought 'over there' so we can be safe 'over here'.

  Give this country another 10-15 and watch the Second Choicers
  suddenly say on this list:  HEY, what's going on, dude? What the heck
  happened when I wasn't looking?

  Mark my words.

  > I apologize for the long ramble, but every now and then I get
  > set off.
  >

  And you're mostly right. Thanks for the thoughts.

  > --- In ibmunion@yahoogroups.com, ignatz713 <no_reply@> wrote:
  > >
  > >> Interesting article. Looks like SouthernYankee doesn't read much.
  > >
  > > --- In ibmunion@yahoogroups.com, "Frank  Carbone Jr."
  > > <forthebirds39@> wrote:
  > > >
  > > > http://forums.poughkeepsiejournal.com/viewforum.php?f=97
  > > >
  >






---------------------------------
Building a website is a piece of cake.
Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In ibmunion@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <bobc4012@...> wrote:
>


SouthernYankee stated the case about the old IBM, yes he did. Quite
well indeed.

Then Southern Yankee said:

'At IBM, there will never be a cut back on quality or dependability'

'The company treats its employees with respect'

SouthernYankee is living in the past. Period. No problem. Good for
him.

Obviously too that he is a First Choicer when it comes to pension and
retiree medical. Good for him.

And obviously he moved out of New York. Good for him again.



>
> I thought SouthernYankee stated the case quite well. The only
> point on which I might quibble to a degree is the "degree of
> respect shown to the individual". IBM can be very subtle and,
> at times quite blunt, in the way it shows "respect for the
> individual". Also, it isn't always the fault of top level
> management, as lower and middle management apply their own
> spin to the decisions being made. Of course, top level
> management should always ensure but doesn't) the appropriate
> controls are in place to quickly address "misinterpretations".
>


>Also, it isn't always the fault of top level
> management, as lower and middle management apply their own
> spin to the decisions being made


You're joking, right? Are you still working? Are you familiar with
first level management?


> Nobody was ever guaranteed a job in this world. To expect that
> guarantee is ludicrous. Granted, workers have a right in this
> country to organize and negotiate a better "business deal" with
> the company with which they are currently employed, but there
> is no guarantee that be given a job IF there is no legally
> binding contract stating such. If that contract demand will
> not be met, then you either have the option of applying
> elsewhere for a job or go on strike (if recognized as a union).
>
> What concerns me more is what he stated in his post on "Thu
> Sep 27, 2007 8:48 am" about IBM eventually pulling out of the
> US like so many companies have done. I know GM has just signed
> a contract guaranteeing they won't leave, but a few more losing
> quarters and then a declaration of bankruptcy and they will
> be gone.
>
> Don't expect government to solve the problem either. What you
> would end up with is a communist dictatorship. Socialism has
> an extremely high cost as Europe has been finding out. Where
> there used to be job guarantees and other guarantees, some
> countries are now backing off. While Republicans tend to favor
> tax breaks for business, Democrats will tax business to death
> (except for the earmarks to the businesses in their own
> congressional districts or states). So don't expect real help
> from either party.
>


Absolutely not. It's all on us to monitor and control. Good luck to
us all.




> One difference between many of the Europeans and the Americans,
> is that Europeans will still try to buy products made in their
> own country (or least Europe), whereas Americans will buy that
> cheap crap made in China. My wife and I always check for the
> place of manufacture and buy "Made in America", even if it
> costs a few dollars more, otherwise we won't buy it (exception
> is that rare instance when we have no other choice and
> absolutely need it).


And you FIND stuff 'made in America'? Wow. I have been trying to do
that for years and years, and with very few exceptions, find it
impossible.





And its just not Wal-Mart (a favorite
> whipping boy of the Socialists in this country), but every
> store. We were in Linens and Things the other day to get some
> towels. All the "Made in America" brands were being fazed out
> and replaced with "Made in China". We did not buy. I went to
> get new tires for my car and was told they were made in Korea.
> I checked the tires and found they were made in China, but the
> company was a Korean company. Sears, K-Mart, Target, automotive
> parts, grocery stores, ad nauseam, are all selling crap made or
> grown in China. The American suckers keep gobbling the stuff up.
>


In addition, even if it says 'made in America' there will be parts
made overseas.

We've given this country away.


> At some point this country will have to pay up, but I guess that
> as long as the younger generations still can buy there "made in
> China" X-boxes and other "Made in China" electronics and sit
> around smoking that "funny weed" and sucking down beer they will
> be happy.
>

Bingo. And use their cell phones. And their ipods. And drive their
SUVs. And get their interest-only mortgages. And ignore the war being
fought 'over there' so we can be safe 'over here'.

Give this country another 10-15 and watch the Second Choicers
suddenly say on this list:  HEY, what's going on, dude? What the heck
happened when I wasn't looking?

Mark my words.



> I apologize for the long ramble, but every now and then I get
> set off.
>

And you're mostly right. Thanks for the thoughts.



> --- In ibmunion@yahoogroups.com, ignatz713 <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> >> Interesting article. Looks like SouthernYankee doesn't read much.
> >
> > --- In ibmunion@yahoogroups.com, "Frank  Carbone Jr."
> > <forthebirds39@> wrote:
> > >
> > > http://forums.poughkeepsiejournal.com/viewforum.php?f=97
> > >
>

I thought SouthernYankee stated the case quite well. The only
point on which I might quibble to a degree is the "degree of
respect shown to the individual". IBM can be very subtle and,
at times quite blunt, in the way it shows "respect for the
individual". Also, it isn't always the fault of top level
management, as lower and middle management apply their own
spin to the decisions being made. Of course, top level
management should always ensure but doesn't) the appropriate
controls are in place to quickly address "misinterpretations".

Nobody was ever guaranteed a job in this world. To expect that
guarantee is ludicrous. Granted, workers have a right in this
country to organize and negotiate a better "business deal" with
the company with which they are currently employed, but there
is no guarantee that be given a job IF there is no legally
binding contract stating such. If that contract demand will
not be met, then you either have the option of applying
elsewhere for a job or go on strike (if recognized as a union).

What concerns me more is what he stated in his post on "Thu
Sep 27, 2007 8:48 am" about IBM eventually pulling out of the
US like so many companies have done. I know GM has just signed
a contract guaranteeing they won't leave, but a few more losing
quarters and then a declaration of bankruptcy and they will
be gone.

Don't expect government to solve the problem either. What you
would end up with is a communist dictatorship. Socialism has
an extremely high cost as Europe has been finding out. Where
there used to be job guarantees and other guarantees, some
countries are now backing off. While Republicans tend to favor
tax breaks for business, Democrats will tax business to death
(except for the earmarks to the businesses in their own
congressional districts or states). So don't expect real help
from either party.

One difference between many of the Europeans and the Americans,
is that Europeans will still try to buy products made in their
own country (or least Europe), whereas Americans will buy that
cheap crap made in China. My wife and I always check for the
place of manufacture and buy "Made in America", even if it
costs a few dollars more, otherwise we won't buy it (exception
is that rare instance when we have no other choice and
absolutely need it). And its just not Wal-Mart (a favorite
whipping boy of the Socialists in this country), but every
store. We were in Linens and Things the other day to get some
towels. All the "Made in America" brands were being fazed out
and replaced with "Made in China". We did not buy. I went to
get new tires for my car and was told they were made in Korea.
I checked the tires and found they were made in China, but the
company was a Korean company. Sears, K-Mart, Target, automotive
parts, grocery stores, ad nauseam, are all selling crap made or
grown in China. The American suckers keep gobbling the stuff up.

At some point this country will have to pay up, but I guess that
as long as the younger generations still can buy there "made in
China" X-boxes and other "Made in China" electronics and sit
around smoking that "funny weed" and sucking down beer they will
be happy.

I apologize for the long ramble, but every now and then I get
set off.

--- In ibmunion@yahoogroups.com, ignatz713 <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
>> Interesting article. Looks like SouthernYankee doesn't read much.
>
> --- In ibmunion@yahoogroups.com, "Frank  Carbone Jr."
> <forthebirds39@> wrote:
> >
> > http://forums.poughkeepsiejournal.com/viewforum.php?f=97
> >

--- In ibmunion@yahoogroups.com, "Frank  Carbone Jr."
<forthebirds39@...> wrote:
>
> Group,
> FYI.
> Check the following link (if you already haven't).
> , , , Frank
>
> http://forums.poughkeepsiejournal.com/viewforum.php?f=97
>
>


Interesting article. Looks like SouthernYankee doesn't read much.




>
>
> -"To sin by silence, when they should protest makes cowards of
men." - Abe Lincoln
> -Please visit my website at http://www.outdoorliaisons.com
> -"More than $2.19 billion wasted weekly, with much blood shed - in
the wrong country -
>  & these are just the short term monetary costs." - Frank
> -- "Take the $2.19 billion and use it in the war on the cancer
epidemic." - Frank
> -"It's the poorest people of one country fighting the poorest
people of another
>  country - for the benefit of the wealthiest people." - Unknown
Soldier, USA - 2006
>  -". . . . it's not clear who we're fighting" - A young US Soldier
on a street in Iraq - 10/6/06
> -"I think this speech given last night by this president represents
the most dangerous
>  foreign policy blunder in this country since Vietnam - if it's
carried out." -
>  U.S. Sen. Chuck Hagel, Nebraska (R)  Vietnam Vet - January 2007
> -"Unless you have more wisdom, experience & knowledge than US Sen.
>  Chuck Hagel - I can't agree with your position on Iraq" - Frank
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Labour news from UNI global union -
More than 1'850 -real- people protested behind their computers in
over 30 countries to show solidarity with IBM Italy workers.
The protest took place at 7 IBM locations, and in particular at IBM
Italia and the IBM Business Centre in Second Life.
Many Italian IBM workers joined the event after work, from 7pm to
10pm Rome, Italy time.

It was reported that Second Life was having some technical
difficulties, which is why we believe we could have reached an even
higher number of participants.

IBM have not officially react to the protest so far.
However, they did shut down parts of their Business Centre to
visitors (or really, protesters).
A number of participants managed to crash an IBM staff meeting
during the afternoon - where they were immediately asked to leave
and to "protest outside". Instead, they demanded to speak to
Management. But the staff meeting, which seemed to be about the new
IBM website functionality, was called to an end.

People wanting to protest IBM's anti worker actions but who are not
part of SecondLife, can make a protest at; http://www.union-
network.org/uniindep.nsf/ProtestIBMSL-en?openform

http://www.uniglobalunion.org/secondlife

http://ibmslprotest.blogspot.com/



...
__________________________________________________________________

Details at www.allianceibm.org

anyone used hotcerts.com test engines to pass 000-700 for your exam ...

Group,
FYI.
Check the following link (if you already haven't).
, , , Frank

http://forums.poughkeepsiejournal.com/viewforum.php?f=97




-"To sin by silence, when they should protest makes cowards of men." - Abe
Lincoln
-Please visit my website at http://www.outdoorliaisons.com
-"More than $2.19 billion wasted weekly, with much blood shed - in the wrong
country -
  & these are just the short term monetary costs." - Frank
-- "Take the $2.19 billion and use it in the war on the cancer epidemic." -
Frank
-"It's the poorest people of one country fighting the poorest people of another
  country - for the benefit of the wealthiest people." - Unknown Soldier, USA -
2006
  -". . . . it's not clear who we're fighting" - A young US Soldier on a street
in Iraq - 10/6/06
-"I think this speech given last night by this president represents the most
dangerous
  foreign policy blunder in this country since Vietnam - if it's carried out." -
  U.S. Sen. Chuck Hagel, Nebraska (R)  Vietnam Vet - January 2007
-"Unless you have more wisdom, experience & knowledge than US Sen.
  Chuck Hagel - I can't agree with your position on Iraq" - Frank


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

http://www.geworkersunited.org/2007Contract.pdf

Enterprise Workers' Efforts to Form a Union
by Mike Hall, Jul 14, 2007
Backed by the encouraging words of Massachusetts Sens. Edward
Kennedy and John Kerry, workers at the Enterprise Rent-A-Car's East
Boston airport location who are fighting to a form union were joined
with community supporters at a rally last week as the group launched
a local boycott of the company over its anti-union tactics.

In early June, the workers turned in union authorization cards from
23 of the 30 car-prep employees and drivers and asked Enterprise to
recognize IUE-CWA Local 201 as their union. The company refused.

On June 4, the workers filed for a National Labor Relations Board
(NLRB) election. On June 13, Enterprise told the workers their jobs
were being subcontracted to a Houston staffing company. If the
workers wanted to continue their employment with the rental company,
they were told they would have to apply for jobs at other company
locations.

If the Employee Free Choice Act had been in effect when the
Enterprise workers turned in the cards, they would have had their
union. The act says that when a majority of workers sign union
authorization cards and submit them to the NLRB, their choice to
join a union will be recognized.

Senate Republicans blocked the bill earlier this summer after it
passed the House in March.

Workers at the rally read the statements from Kennedy and Kerry. In
Kennedy's statement, he called on Enterprise to do the right thing—
rehire their workers and recognize the union.

Working people in Massachusetts deserve the right to unionize free
from fear and intimidation.

Kerry's statement said:

It's outrageous that Enterprise fired dedicated employees simply
because they wanted to organize. We shouldn't and we won't allow
union busting in our state.

(See below for the full text of a joint letter of support the two
senators sent to the workers and local labor leaders.)

For nearly one-and-a-half years, the Enterprise workers say they
sought to get management to address their concerns about wages,
safety and job discrimination in work assignments and job
promotions. Their requests were ignored. Says Jonny Arevalo, an
Enterprise shuttle van driver:

All we wanted was a voice at work and a union contract to improve
our wages and working conditions. Instead, management is depriving
us of our rights by making us all apply for new jobs. It's
outrageous.

Some 65 people joined the rally in front of the Enterprise facility
and more than 25 local community and union groups along with a
number of local officials have endorsed the boycott of the
Enterprise operations, says Jeff Crosby president of Local 201 and
the North Shore Labor Council.

Enterprise relies on a good reputation to rent and sell cars in over
30 Boston locations. Unless management reconsiders its actions and
respects it employees, that reputation will suffer. In this era of
internet communications, damaging information of public concern can
spread very quickly and have a lasting impact.

The workers filed an unfair labor practice complaint with the NLRB,
which says Enterprise has retaliated against the workers because of
their attempt to form a union.

Here's the full text of the Kennedy/Kerry letter:

We wish we could be with you in person today to join your call for
justice for the workers at Enterprise Rent-a-Car. We strongly
support your efforts to represent workers at Enterprise's South
Boston airport site, and we're concerned about the company's strong-
arm tactics to defeat your campaign.

It's an outrage that workers who try to form a union can be faced
with mass firing. You have the right to ask Enterprise to recognize
your union, and to be treated with dignity and respect in the
workplace. We've always stood with working Americans throughout our
years in the Senate, and we're proud to stand with you today.

Last month, we fought in the Senate for the Employee Free Choice Act
to allow workers like you to use majority sign-up to choose a union.
Every worker in America deserves the right to join a union, free
from employer retaliation. We're with you in this battle, and we
send our best wishes for your success.

Yours in solidarity,

Edward M. Kennedy and John F. Kerry
July 11, 2007

Employers Abusing H1-B Visa Program - Cheap Labor
January 20, 2006

A new report by an immigration research group supports CWA's stance
that American employers are abusing a temporary visa program to fill
jobs with cheap labor.

"The data suggest that rather than helping employers meet labor
shortages or bring in workers with needed skills, as is often
claimed by program users, the H1-B program is instead more often
used by employers to import cheaper labor," wrote John Miano, author
of the report for the Center for Immigration Studies.

CWA convention delegates are on record as opposing the visa program,
which critics say results in lower wages for American workers while
giving high-tech companies a way to prevent union organizing by
using H1-B workers.

The H1-B program was created 16 years ago to allow U.S. companies to
hire skilled workers to fill shortages when American workers with
the necessary skills aren't available. The visas apply to
occupations that require college degrees or equivalent work
experience but are almost exclusively used by high-tech companies to
fill computing, engineering and scientific jobs.

Federal law requires companies using H1-B workers to pay them the
same as other employees doing the same work or the prevailing wage
for the occupation, but the CIS report - based on Labor Department
data - found that the temporary workers are being paid significantly
less than their American counterparts.

"The wide gap between wages for U.S. workers and H1-B workers helps
explain why industry demand for H-1B workers is so high and why the
annual visa quotas are being exhausted," Miano said.

Rep. Bill Paxcrell, D-N.J., said he has no doubt the CIS report is
accurate. "Corporations are providing a glass ceiling for American
workers in a trap of virtual servitude for low paying, overworked H1-
B employees," he said. "My friends, that is not an exaggeration,
that is not hyperbole, I found this through research to be the
truth."


--- In ibmunion@yahoogroups.com, "ibm_slave" <ibmslave@...> wrote:
>
> I came across the following articel in the July issue of Infoworld.
> Is the CWA actively lobbying against this nonsense?
>
>
>  Indian businesses want action on H-1B visas
> Indian alumni group is hoping to get a separate vote on legislation
> that went down with the immigration reform bill
>
> By Robert Mullins, IDG News Service
> July 09, 2007
>
>
> Alumni of a major Indian university want the U.S. Congress to take
> separate action to pass H-1B visa legislation that went down with
the
> immigration reform bill that failed in Congress last week.
> Free IT resource
>
>     * Security developments delivered to your phone
>     * Sponsored by AT&T
>
> Free IT resource
>
>     * Try Sun servers, workstations and storage products free for
60-days.
>     * Sponsored by Sun Microsystems
>
> Members of the Indian Institute of Technology (IIT) alumni
> association, meeting for a three-day conference in Santa Clara,
> Calif., said Friday that they are hoping to get a separate vote on
an
> immigration bill provision that would increase the number of visas
> granted to highly skilled engineers coming from abroad to work at
U.S.
> technology companies.
>
> "Almost as soon as the bill died, there was talk of piecemeal
moves to
> get parts of that bill passed," said Umang Gupta, chairman and CEO
of
> Keynote Systems, a company that measures the technical performance
of
> Web sites. He's also chairman of the board of PAN IIT, the alumni
> group hosting the conference, which has drawn close to 4,000
people.
>
> The legislation would increase the limit of H-1B visas to be
granted
> every year to 115,000 from 65,000 today. Backers say the extra
visas
> are needed because there aren't enough qualified U.S. engineers to
do
> the work U.S. companies need done. Opponents say the visas just
make
> it possible for U.S. companies to hire foreigners at lower wages
than
> they would have to pay U.S. hires.
>
> The legislation would also continue to allow 20,000 visas per year
to
> applicants who have advanced degrees from U.S. colleges and
universities.
>
> Today, about half of the graduates of U.S. engineering schools are
> non-Americans, many of whom have to return to their home countries
to
> find work when they should be allowed to work here and contribute
to
> U.S. economic growth, said Pradeep Khosla, dean of the Department
of
> Electrical and Computer Engineering at Carnegie Mellon University
in
> Pennsylvania.
>
> "The day this country limits the free flow of skilled immigrants
> coming into this country, that's the day we start going downhill,"
> said Khosla.
>
> Another IIT alum, Yogen Dalal, managing director at Mayfield Fund,
a
> venture capital firm, noted that in the early 1990s, some in
Silicon
> Valley thought they would be overcome by the Japanese. But the
success
> of valley companies such as Google and Apple, which introduced its
> iPhone a week ago, shows it remains a center for innovation.
>
> "Wealth is being created by innovation right here in [Silicon
Valley].
> Economic value is being created here. The work force is just being
> redistributed," Dalal said.
>
> The H1-B discussion is happening against the backdrop of the loss
of
> thousands of jobs in recent years, particularly in Silicon Valley,
as
> companies outsourced work to lower-wage markets in countries such
as
> India. But as more work is done in India, wage inflation has begun
to
> narrow the pay gap between India and the United States. And in some
> cases, Indian companies have begun moving jobs to the United
States,
> said Arjun Malhotra, chairman and CEO of Headstrong, an outsourcing
> consulting firm.
>
> "If you look at the issue today, it's not outsourcing, it's global
> sourcing. You go to wherever the best resources are available to do
> that job," said Malhotra.
>
> The Indian Institute of Technology was created in 1950, three years
> after India gained its independence from Great Britain. It has
about
> 100,000 alumni, 25,000 of whom live and work in the United States.
>

I came across the following articel in the July issue of Infoworld.
Is the CWA actively lobbying against this nonsense?


  Indian businesses want action on H-1B visas
Indian alumni group is hoping to get a separate vote on legislation
that went down with the immigration reform bill

By Robert Mullins, IDG News Service
July 09, 2007


Alumni of a major Indian university want the U.S. Congress to take
separate action to pass H-1B visa legislation that went down with the
immigration reform bill that failed in Congress last week.
Free IT resource

     * Security developments delivered to your phone
     * Sponsored by AT&T

Free IT resource

     * Try Sun servers, workstations and storage products free for 60-days.
     * Sponsored by Sun Microsystems

Members of the Indian Institute of Technology (IIT) alumni
association, meeting for a three-day conference in Santa Clara,
Calif., said Friday that they are hoping to get a separate vote on an
immigration bill provision that would increase the number of visas
granted to highly skilled engineers coming from abroad to work at U.S.
technology companies.

"Almost as soon as the bill died, there was talk of piecemeal moves to
get parts of that bill passed," said Umang Gupta, chairman and CEO of
Keynote Systems, a company that measures the technical performance of
Web sites. He's also chairman of the board of PAN IIT, the alumni
group hosting the conference, which has drawn close to 4,000 people.

The legislation would increase the limit of H-1B visas to be granted
every year to 115,000 from 65,000 today. Backers say the extra visas
are needed because there aren't enough qualified U.S. engineers to do
the work U.S. companies need done. Opponents say the visas just make
it possible for U.S. companies to hire foreigners at lower wages than
they would have to pay U.S. hires.

The legislation would also continue to allow 20,000 visas per year to
applicants who have advanced degrees from U.S. colleges and universities.

Today, about half of the graduates of U.S. engineering schools are
non-Americans, many of whom have to return to their home countries to
find work when they should be allowed to work here and contribute to
U.S. economic growth, said Pradeep Khosla, dean of the Department of
Electrical and Computer Engineering at Carnegie Mellon University in
Pennsylvania.

"The day this country limits the free flow of skilled immigrants
coming into this country, that's the day we start going downhill,"
said Khosla.

Another IIT alum, Yogen Dalal, managing director at Mayfield Fund, a
venture capital firm, noted that in the early 1990s, some in Silicon
Valley thought they would be overcome by the Japanese. But the success
of valley companies such as Google and Apple, which introduced its
iPhone a week ago, shows it remains a center for innovation.

"Wealth is being created by innovation right here in [Silicon Valley].
Economic value is being created here. The work force is just being
redistributed," Dalal said.

The H1-B discussion is happening against the backdrop of the loss of
thousands of jobs in recent years, particularly in Silicon Valley, as
companies outsourced work to lower-wage markets in countries such as
India. But as more work is done in India, wage inflation has begun to
narrow the pay gap between India and the United States. And in some
cases, Indian companies have begun moving jobs to the United States,
said Arjun Malhotra, chairman and CEO of Headstrong, an outsourcing
consulting firm.

"If you look at the issue today, it's not outsourcing, it's global
sourcing. You go to wherever the best resources are available to do
that job," said Malhotra.

The Indian Institute of Technology was created in 1950, three years
after India gained its independence from Great Britain. It has about
100,000 alumni, 25,000 of whom live and work in the United States.

IBM Workers
International Solidarity Conference
June 25 to 28, 2007 Paris, France

55 Union members from IBM, representing 17 unions from 13 countries,
met in Paris between June 25 to 28, 2007 and discussed IBM's
strategy and the situation of IBM employees and the IBM unions in
each of the countries represented.
The following unions contributed to the meeting: Alliance@IBM CWA
Local 1701 (USA), CC.OO (Spain), CePETel-CTA (Argentina), CFDT
(France), Italian National Works Council, CGT (France), ERTO
(Finland), IG Metall (Germany), JMIU (Japan), LBC-NVK (Belgium), CNE
(Belgium), PESYI (Greece), PROSA (Denmark), Sif (Sweden), UNITES
(India).
IBM Workers International Solidarity (IWIS) is the answer to IBM's
strategy of becoming a "globally integrated enterprise": The IBM
Employees need a "globally unionized workforce"!
IWIS declares:
• As IBM tries to apply a strategy of eliminating all local ties and
links and to operate on a global level with no accountability to
national societies, labor regulations and national working
conditions: IWIS is the employees advocate to force IBM in
recognizing a Corporate Social Responsibility as defined in
international standards and to be more respective to its employee
representatives and unions in every country IBM is doing business.
• While IBM formally acknowledges the legal rights of employees, the
facts are IBM in practice does not apply them everywhere. There are
cases where IBM acts against the Labor law, against the interests of
employees and against union rights. Only a strong global network of
union organized people within IBM can counteract this destructive
attitude.
• IWIS requests the support and action of all national unions and
global union federations in order to fight for IBM employees rights.
• All members of IWIS will stand together for this mission. They
will act together along the belief that—an injury to one is an
injury to all!
• IWIS member unions will think globally and act locally to enforce
the legal and legitimate rights of IBM employees and their unions
all over the world. • "LEAN" as redefined by IBM will have a
negative impact on employees and IWIS will oppose any job cuts.
IWIS demands:
• As IBM wants to introduce a "new compensation model" this year,
IWIS demands salary and wage increases for every IBM employee by
collective bargaining agreements in each country where IBM operates.
• If IBM wants to introduce a "LEAN" process, IWIS demands IBM
negotiate with unions (and/or legitimate workers representatives) in
advance to avoid any job cuts.
• IBM should acknowledge the legal rights and laws of employees and
their representatives. IBM should respect the national labor
standards in all countries and recognize their legitimate
representative unions.
IWIS calls:
• For union representation at IBM in every country. • Every IBM
employee to become organized in a union.
• To encourage unionists to support IWIS global actions
• All unions representing IBM employees to join the IWIS network.

Lee Conrad
Newly elected International Coordinator of IBM Workers International
Solidarity

From: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/polishamericanforum/message/9715

On July 3/30, 1619

1619. Account of strike by Polish settlers in Jamestown, Virg.
entered into records of the Virginia Company. The Poles, pitch,
tar and glassmakers, held the win strike for equal rights. It
is considered to be the first labor strike in the New World.
1844. Birth of Rev. John Pitass in Upper Slask, Poland. First
pastor of St. Stanislaus parish, the Mother Church of Buffalo
Polonia.


From: http://expatpol.com/index.php?stsid=27000&kid=38&cktst=1

On July 30, 1619, the Polish settlers staged the first strike in
America to demand full civil rights and inclusion in the political
process.

On 1619 when colonists prepared to hte election to The Virginia
Assemby a new governor announced, that only citizens of England have a
right to vote for representatives!!

This time Poles proclaimed a strike

"If we can't vote, we will not work."

This strike was first action of the workers in history of English
colonies and milestone in future of American labor law and right to
protest in defense civil and workers rights!

This is original text from archives of the Virginia Court about this
strike:

This democratic precedense is noted in Virginia Archives at 21 July
1619 at Virginia Court about strike:

"Upon some dispute of the Polonians in Virginia, it was now
agreed…they shall be enfranchised and made as free as any inhabitans
there whatsoever".

After being denied participation in the first Virginia assembly, they
conducted this first labor walkout, not for higher wages or better
working conditions, but for democratic rights.

The Virginia assembly quickly acknowledged the vital role played by
the Poles in the settlement's well-being and granted them the same
privileges enjoyed by the English.


BTW, I noticed the workers, at the Progress Energy facilities
in North and South Carolina, rejected joining the IBEW union
by more than a 3 to 1 margin - 499 to 157.

The final vote in the US Senate was 51-48. 60 votes were needed to
force consideration for passage of the Employee Free Choice Act (HR
800).

No doubt this bill will be introduced again in 2008 since it passed the
US House solidly in March (241-185) and the vote still has enough
interest and support with Democrats and Independents in the Senate. If
the Senate had approved it with 67 votes it would have probably had
just enough of support to override a certain presidential veto.

We can't hang out heads now! We just need more support. Please continue
to call, write, and e-mail your Senators and Representatives to urge
further support for this important bill.

--- In ibmunion@yahoogroups.com, sby_willie <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> Nice coverage by CSpan today from 5-6:30 EDT on the Senate debate on
> the Employee Free Choice Act.
> If you have not yet contacted your Senator, now is the time to voice
> your support. It is possible the Employee Free Choice Act will come
> to vote real soon.


Here is a great site to tap into for the Employee Free Choice Act.
http://www.aflcio.org/joinaunion/voiceatwork/efca/

Feel free to use their resources at that site to help out.

Nice coverage by CSpan today from 5-6:30 EDT on the Senate debate on
the Employee Free Choice Act. More debate tomorrow is scheduled so if
you get CSpan on cable it's worth your viewing.

The big Republican push to veto is to say that the Employee Free
Choice Act will allow organizing efforts to further bully employees.
I don't get it. No one in an organizing effort is going to force
anyone to sign the card. Why would any nascent union or organizing
effort want to bully or threaten workers and risk alienating the rank
and file which could jeopardize a chance for a certification card
check? But you can bet employers will hold their captive meetings to
try to "educate" their workers to not sign or simply ignore the card.
That sure sounds like intimidation to me though.

BTW: card check was the law of the land from 1941-1966, I believe,
but was repealed to secret ballot for union certification. Reason why
this happened in the first place could have just been the
congressional regime at the time that forced the repeal.

The Republicans appear to say the secret ballot is the right form of
democracy. They say secret ballot makes all votes count. The
assumption of a card check being not a vote is being implied by them.
They also fail to take in the account of increasing difficulties a
fledgling union drive under the current law and enforcement under the
present NLRB and how labor law has been eroding for the employee when
unionized or not. For instance, it is real hard for a union drive
when more and more employees work outside or remote from the office
and plant. The Employee Free Choice Act helps a union make contact
with these employees fairer by a card mailing. The Republicans also
think that a union organizing campaign that the Employee Free Choice
Act would give makes it easier to get at least the 30% to call a
vote. Again, this is naive Republican thinking at work again: what
union organizing drive would be happy to just get to 30% to call a
vote? You need simple majority to get certification so no union
organizing drive would even dream of calling a vote with more than
30% and less than 50% of support by cards signed. For that matter,
the risk of calling a vote and losing means under NLRB law that you
can't call another vote for a few years so most organizing activities
want to get a solid majority first.

If you have not yet contacted your Senator, now is the time to voice
your support. It is possible the Employee Free Choice Act will come
to vote real soon.

Ok. How about UPS strikes. I was on that line. A scab drove right over
one of the picketers.

How about the sheet metal strikes back when I was a member of that
union. It lasted one week. We got five cents an hour for three years.
My pay was $55/wk. So I got @2.00/wk increase but gave up $55 to get
it. Now am I shrewd or what?

But, you do have a point. IBM is not one to negotiate if it has an
edge so I'm all for a strike. SHUT 'EM DOWN!!! Feel better?

BTW, I'm retired but I'll walk a picket line any day the Alliance
calls for one.







--- In ibmunion@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <bobc4012@...> wrote:
>
>
> Well, since they have not achieved a union at IBM, I guess
> the negotiators must not be too swift. How many years now?
>
> LOCKOUT!!! What do you call all the "downsizing"? What about
> all the H-1Bs coming in.
>
> How about citing people who are NOT affiliated with jobs
> dealing with government
>
> Quill - TWU - NYC Transportation Workers strike, 1966
>
> Shanker - UFT - Teacher's strike
>
> Air Controllers
>
> All over 25 years ago. All dealing with the government. The
> government may agree to the worker's right to a union, but
> just not when it comes to striking against the government.
> It doesn't make one bit of difference, which party has the
> power. There is one set of rules when dealing with government
> and another set for dealing with businesses.
>
> Again, if you are serious, the only way to show a company
> like IBM is to strike and hit the bottom line - which MAY
> affect the CEO/Pres./VP stock option and their annual, WAY
> above average pay increases.
>
> Like they say "No guts, no glory", in this case, "no guts,
> STATUS QUO".
>
>
> --- In ibmunion@yahoogroups.com, "abouthadit" <abouthadit@> wrote:
> >
> > Maybe. It is also one reason why they got a bad reputation.
> > I give you the late Mike Quill of NYC Rapid Transit fame,
> > just to mention one example.
> >
> > Albert Shanker also comes to mind, and the grandaddy of all dumb
> > moves, the air traffic controllers strike of 1980's vintage.
> >
> > There are many ways to negotiate. A strike means that negotiations
> > were not effective. It means that good faith was not present.
> >
> > So does a lock-out.
> >
> > It takes a smart union team to negotiate a smart contract. You know.
> > It's the one where employees get their proper cut of the business
> > success while the business continues to be even more successful.
> >
> >
>

They sign cards, not a show of hands. You need to go to the AFL/CIO
web site and study up on this before you make such comments. You
also clearly do not understand that the system has been corrupted by
the corporations, their lawyers and anti-union consultants. you also
do not understand what they put employees through.

--- In ibmunion@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <bobc4012@...> wrote:
>
>
> If this is the bill where they outlaw the "secret ballot",
> and vote by a show of hands whether or not to have a union,
> realize it is a two-edge sword. Those who vote for a union
> will be known by the company and risk retaliation. Those who
> vote against a union, risk retaliation by their co-workers
> favoring a union. Maybe our local, state and national
> elections should be by show of hands (or people walk in
> and just tell a recorder how they want to vote). AND don't
> argue their is a BIG difference. ALL voting of significance
> should be by secret ballot.
>
>
> --- In ibmunion@yahoogroups.com, justa_bean_counter <no_reply@>
wrote:
> >
> >
> > The U.S. Senate will debate and vote on the Employee Free Choice
Act
> > this week.
> >
> > As the vote approaches, working families from across the country
are
> > rallying in support of strengthening the middle class. Let your
> > senators know they should vote "Yes" by joining the virtual
rally for
> > the Employee Free Choice Act.
> >
>

Are you a current employee?

--- In ibmunion@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <bobc4012@...> wrote:
>
>
> Well, since they have not achieved a union at IBM, I guess
> the negotiators must not be too swift. How many years now?
>
> LOCKOUT!!! What do you call all the "downsizing"? What about
> all the H-1Bs coming in.
>
> How about citing people who are NOT affiliated with jobs
> dealing with government
>
> Quill - TWU - NYC Transportation Workers strike, 1966
>
> Shanker - UFT - Teacher's strike
>
> Air Controllers
>
> All over 25 years ago. All dealing with the government. The
> government may agree to the worker's right to a union, but
> just not when it comes to striking against the government.
> It doesn't make one bit of difference, which party has the
> power. There is one set of rules when dealing with government
> and another set for dealing with businesses.
>
> Again, if you are serious, the only way to show a company
> like IBM is to strike and hit the bottom line - which MAY
> affect the CEO/Pres./VP stock option and their annual, WAY
> above average pay increases.
>
> Like they say "No guts, no glory", in this case, "no guts,
> STATUS QUO".
>
>
> --- In ibmunion@yahoogroups.com, "abouthadit" <abouthadit@> wrote:
> >
> > Maybe. It is also one reason why they got a bad reputation.
> > I give you the late Mike Quill of NYC Rapid Transit fame,
> > just to mention one example.
> >
> > Albert Shanker also comes to mind, and the grandaddy of all dumb
> > moves, the air traffic controllers strike of 1980's vintage.
> >
> > There are many ways to negotiate. A strike means that
negotiations
> > were not effective. It means that good faith was not present.
> >
> > So does a lock-out.
> >
> > It takes a smart union team to negotiate a smart contract. You
know.
> > It's the one where employees get their proper cut of the business
> > success while the business continues to be even more successful.
> >
> >
>

If this is the bill where they outlaw the "secret ballot",
and vote by a show of hands whether or not to have a union,
realize it is a two-edge sword. Those who vote for a union
will be known by the company and risk retaliation. Those who
vote against a union, risk retaliation by their co-workers
favoring a union. Maybe our local, state and national
elections should be by show of hands (or people walk in
and just tell a recorder how they want to vote). AND don't
argue their is a BIG difference. ALL voting of significance
should be by secret ballot.


--- In ibmunion@yahoogroups.com, justa_bean_counter <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
>
> The U.S. Senate will debate and vote on the Employee Free Choice Act
> this week.
>
> As the vote approaches, working families from across the country are
> rallying in support of strengthening the middle class. Let your
> senators know they should vote "Yes" by joining the virtual rally for
> the Employee Free Choice Act.
>

Well, since they have not achieved a union at IBM, I guess
the negotiators must not be too swift. How many years now?

LOCKOUT!!! What do you call all the "downsizing"? What about
all the H-1Bs coming in.

How about citing people who are NOT affiliated with jobs
dealing with government

Quill - TWU - NYC Transportation Workers strike, 1966

Shanker - UFT - Teacher's strike

Air Controllers

All over 25 years ago. All dealing with the government. The
government may agree to the worker's right to a union, but
just not when it comes to striking against the government.
It doesn't make one bit of difference, which party has the
power. There is one set of rules when dealing with government
and another set for dealing with businesses.

Again, if you are serious, the only way to show a company
like IBM is to strike and hit the bottom line - which MAY
affect the CEO/Pres./VP stock option and their annual, WAY
above average pay increases.

Like they say "No guts, no glory", in this case, "no guts,
STATUS QUO".


--- In ibmunion@yahoogroups.com, "abouthadit" <abouthadit@...> wrote:
>
> Maybe. It is also one reason why they got a bad reputation.
> I give you the late Mike Quill of NYC Rapid Transit fame,
> just to mention one example.
>
> Albert Shanker also comes to mind, and the grandaddy of all dumb
> moves, the air traffic controllers strike of 1980's vintage.
>
> There are many ways to negotiate. A strike means that negotiations
> were not effective. It means that good faith was not present.
>
> So does a lock-out.
>
> It takes a smart union team to negotiate a smart contract. You know.
> It's the one where employees get their proper cut of the business
> success while the business continues to be even more successful.
>
>

Maybe. It is also one reason why they got a bad reputation. I give you
the late Mike Quill of NYC Rapid Transit fame, just to mention one
example.

Albert Shanker also comes to mind, and the grandaddy of all dumb
moves, the air traffic controllers strike of 1980's vintage.

There are many ways to negotiate. A strike means that negotiations
were not effective. It means that good faith was not present.

So does a lock-out.

It takes a smart union team to negotiate a smart contract. You know.
It's the one where employees get their proper cut of the business
success while the business continues to be even more successful.


--- In ibmunion@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <bobc4012@...> wrote:
>
>
> "They" are you and the other union members (American or not).
> If you want to get management's attention, YOU STRIKE - not
> ignore phone calls for 15 minutes. Sounds like the union is
> ALL MOUTH and NO ACTION. Obviously, that is also the way
> management must think too. ABOUT the only way unions have had
> most of their demands met historically, has been to STRIKE.
>
>
> --- In ibmunion@yahoogroups.com, bboru11 <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> > "Will they get serious" What is with the "they"? When are american
> > IBM workers going to get serious?
> >
> >
> > --- In ibmunion@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <bobc4012@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Will they get serious and go on strike for as long as it takes
> > > or declare another 15 minute work stopage (Noon - 12:15)?
> > >
> >
>

"They" are you and the other union members (American or not).
If you want to get management's attention, YOU STRIKE - not
ignore phone calls for 15 minutes. Sounds like the union is
ALL MOUTH and NO ACTION. Obviously, that is also the way
management must think too. ABOUT the only way unions have had
most of their demands met historically, has been to STRIKE.


--- In ibmunion@yahoogroups.com, bboru11 <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> "Will they get serious" What is with the "they"? When are american
> IBM workers going to get serious?
>
>
> --- In ibmunion@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <bobc4012@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Will they get serious and go on strike for as long as it takes
> > or declare another 15 minute work stopage (Noon - 12:15)?
> >
>

The U.S. Senate will debate and vote on the Employee Free Choice Act
this week.

As the vote approaches, working families from across the country are
rallying in support of strengthening the middle class. Let your
senators know they should vote "Yes" by joining the virtual rally for
the Employee Free Choice Act.

On June 19, thousands of working men and women will rally in more
than 70 cities throughout America—they will be showing their support
for the Employee Free Choice Act. The U.S. Senate is set to vote on
the bill as early as June 20. Join the virtual rally for the Employee
Free Choice Act—your senators will know you're taking part. Help make
the final push we need to get this important law passed.

All the e-mail messages, faxes and calls to senators were all meant
to build to this one moment. With your help, we have reached our goal
of collecting 1,000 signed cards of support for the Employee Free
Choice Act. At the rally at the Senate on June 19, we will deliver
these cards to senators. We wish you could all be there in person.
But you can do the next best thing. Join the virtual rally, and let
your senators know you stand in solidarity with the other working men
and women from across the country in support of the Employee Free
Choice Act.

http://www.unionvoice.org/campaign/EFCA_senate_virtual_rally

The Senate vote on the Employee Free Choice Act is the next step in
strengthening the middle class. Let's keep the momentum going. With
your help, we can pass the most important change to labor law in 70
years.

In solidarity, Working Families e-Activist Network, AFL-CIO
P.S. Learn more about the Employee Free Choice Act and see videos of
workers like Ivo Camilo, Nikkia Parish and Bill Lawhorn at the AFL-
CIO's Employee Free Choice Act website:

http://www.aflcio.org/joinaunion/voiceatwork/efca