i seemed to have missed out on this one. (too much of code disassembling
fill u with a strange urge purge ur inboxes without looking in). can some
one throw some bytes on whats IIR about?
- farhan
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Dear Amitabh:

Many thanks for taking the trouble to coordinate with
Samantha Kerry and Dan Kirwin of IIR HK. Samantha had
sent me the draft program and sought my inputs.

It is excellent that Prof Ashok Jhunjhunwala has been
included since the work that he is doing on corDECT is
outstanding and a world leader. As many people as
possible should know about his work.

Ravi Visvesvaraya Prasad
---

amitabh@... wrote:
> i was planning with the organisers, the content for
> the event and Prof.
> Jhunjunwalla, has been given some slot there, on the
> sessions that include
> Wireless as a subject. The organisers would
> definately send an invitation to
> him in due course.
>
> REgds
> Amitabh Singhal


__________________________________________________
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i was planning with the organisers, the content for the event and Prof.
Jhunjunwalla, has been given some slot there, on the sessions that include
Wireless as a subject. The organisers would definately send an invitation to
him in due course.

REgds
Amitabh Singhal

Dear Professor Jhunjhunwala:

I will inform the organizers (Samantha Kerry of
Institute of International Research, Hong Kong,
skerry@...) to have a whole session on corDECT.

Please let me know if I can be of any assistance to
you in publicizing corDECT and other indigeneous
technologies, especially those developed by you.

I had liked your excellent speech on corDECT at the
Wireless Local Loop conference of IBC Asia.

Ravi V Prasad


--- Ashok Jhunjhunwala <ashok@...> wrote:
> Dear Ravi,
>
> I saw this posted. We are very interested in the
> topic. But why so much
> emphasis on IS-95. Are you familiar with corDECT? I
> request you to look at our
> site www.tenet.res.in. We are installing in rural
> areas in a major way.
>
> ashok jhunjhunwala, IIT Madras
>
>
> >
> > >From: Ravi V Prasad <r_v_p@...>
> > >Reply-To: a@...
> > >Subject: IIR India Telecom Conference, Delhi, Oct
> 2001
> > >To: india-gii@...
> > >
> > >Please provide your feedback on the tentative
> agenda
> > >for the conference. What other topics should be
> > >discussed? Any suggestions for speakers?
> > >
> > >I had chaired two of the six sessions in last
> year's
> > >conference.
> > >
> > >Ravi Visvesvaraya Prasad
> > >
> > >======================
> > >
> > >6th International
> > >India Telecoms Summit
> > >
> > >SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST
> > >Staying ahead in an evolving market place
> > >
> > >10-12 October 2001, New Delhi, India
> > >
> > >
> > >Day One: Infrastructure Development
> > >
> > >
> > >Session 1 – Telecom Infrastructure Development
> > >
> > >(1.1)  Chairman’s Opening remarks: Overview of
> > >developments in South East Asian
> telecommunications
> > >with a comparison to developments in India
> > >
> > >(1.2) Opportunities and impact of latest Policy
> and
> > >Regulatory developments for the
> telecommunications
> > >sector in India
> > >Foreseeable direction of India’s network topology
> –
> > >Will a single license system be plausible for all
> > >services?
> > >How and will India’s telecom policy support a
> fast
> > >growing telecom market
> > >Action plan for introduction of convergence in
> India
> > >Encouraging competition in the Telecom sector and
> > >creating a level playing field
> > >Will GSM or CDMA prevail – evaluating latest
> > >government
> > >initiatives and the impact on current mobile
> operators
> > >
> > >Spectrum and bandwidth allocation, availability,
> > >pricing and quality
> > >
> > >(1.3) Examining the impact of the Convergence
> Bill for
> > >IP and telephony on the service providers in
> India
> > >Legal implications
> > >Technical regulations and challenges
> > >International carrier rates
> > >
> > >(1.4)  International Case Study – Experience of
> > >Convergence
> > >
> > >(1.5)  End user round table: Examining the
> requirements
> > >of corporate end users that are planning to
> invest and
> > >or expand operations in India
> > >Challenges and opportunities faced by corporate
> > >consumers investing in communications solutions
> for
> > >their business
> > >Creating an affordable, quality of service,
> system
> > >Possible route to solutions required
> > >
> > >
> > >Session 2 – Regulatory & Policy Framework in
> India
> > >
> > >(2.1)  Examining the impact of recent and likely
> > >future regulatory
> > >changes/challenges with their impact on
> > >telecommunications in India
> > >Including new technology regulations – 3G and
> EDGE
> > >Roll of the regulator and tribunal
> > >Prospect and applications of a Super Regulator
> > >
> > >(2.2)  Case study: International regulator –
> > >challenges and solution of
> > >     regulating converging technologies
> > >- Including role of international agencies in the
> > >converged market
> > >
> > >
> > >Session 3 – Creating an Environment for Foreign
> > >Investment and Development of Infrastructure in
> > >Telecom Services
> > >
> > >(3.1) Round table: Developing strategies for
> > >attracting capital and foreign investment in the
> > >Indian telecoms market
> > >Sourcing the capital for expanding and deploying
> new
> > >services,
> > >Including: debt, security, ACQ financing,
> financing
> > >roadblocks, guidelines – policies and procedures
> > >Availability of finance
> > >Maintaining existing telecom projects
> > >
> > >(3.2)  International Analysis: How do foreign
> investors
> > >value Indian Operators?
> > >
> > >Session 4 – Fixed Line / Basic Services
> > >
> > >(4.1) Opportunities and challenges for Basic
> > >operators:
> > >Impact of recent policy and regulatory changes
> for
> > >Basic operators
> > >Examining the large scale impact of mobility in
> the
> > >Wireless Local Loop
> > >CDMA network challenges – will operators actually
> be
> > >capable of using their new found mobility?
> > >Impact of enormous competition on incumbent
> operators
> > >Future expected roadmap for basic operators –
> survival
> > >of just a few?
> > >
> > >(4.2)  Deploying and developing mobile WLL
> > >applications in a highly competitive environment
> > >       Who is the real consumer?
> > >       Coverage and capacity
> > >       Affordability
> > >       Technology limitations
> > >       Reaching the consumer
> > >
> > >(4.3)  Roundtable: Terminal & handset
> manufacturers
> > >Discussing time to market, affordability,
> > >compatibility and availability of:
> > >CDMA products  GPRS/WAP handsets       Next
> Generation
> > >Handsets
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Session 5 – Domestic Long Distance
> > >
> > >(5.1)  Creating and sustaining National Long
> Distance
> > >Networks in developing countries – case study
> > >Forecasting the future telecommunications roadmap
> -
> > >Potential for long distance and national
> operators to
> > >take over the market place
> > >       Effect of NLD on bottom line profits
> > >       Creating competitive inter-carrier and
> > >interconnection settlement rates
> > >
> > >(5.2)  Consolidation: Mergers & Acquisitions –
> will
> > >regional operators survive the long-term battle?
> > >
> > >(5.3)  Challenges and difficulties for utility
> > >companies moving into telecommunications – case
> study
> > >of an international operator
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
=== message truncated ===> begin:vcard
> n:Jhunjhunwala;Ashok
> tel;fax:+91-44-235 2120
> tel;home:+91-44- 235 3202 / 445 9366
> tel;work:+91-44-235 2120 / 445 8366 / 4909048
> x-mozilla-html:FALSE
> org:IIT Madras;Electrical Engineering Dept.
> version:2.1
> email;internet:ashok@...
> title:Head
> adr;quoted-printable:;;Electrical Engineering
> Dept.=0D=0AIIT Madras=0D=0AChennai 600 036;;;;
> fn:Ashok Jhunjhunwala
> end:vcard
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/

Please watch VK Cherian and me on Jain TV IT News
every night over the next week at 20:15 Indian time on
the cyberporno controversy.

IT News is at 20:15 every night on Jain TV with a
repeat at 00:15 (just after midnight).

Ravi Visvesvaraya Prasad


__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/

I beg to disagree. I think the idea of any regulatory/supervisory body for
media is oxymoron in internet age. The biggest strength of any media is its
credibility. No newspaper/tv channel/website can sustain itself without
credibility and trust of its reader. Since it is not possible for anyone to
fool/cheat/misinform other successfully at all times, I see no reason why
one should be worrying too much about the abuse of media. As many have
suggested, the media should be self-regulated and the editors/publishers
should take care of erring journalists. Yes, the media should be accountable
to what they print/publish and it should be willing to accept penalties
should it is  found dessimenating wrong or unsbustantiated information. I do
support strengthing our legal system to protect honour and privacy of
citizen abused by media. But definetly not for something like Press Council
of India.

BTW, I am not saying that Indian media is full of saints and angels.
Yes, there is always possibility of abuse, but i see still higher
possibility of abuse under Press Council or an similar body. Therefore, I
would err by not having any Press Council.

Sometimes the biased reporting by media is very frustrating, but still it is
lesser evil than controlled media. I still believe in Satyamev Jayata
("Truth always Triumphs") and therfore do not see a need of PCI to protect
the truth. Truth like waters always finds its level.

Sincerely,
Ratnendra Pandey

>From: "Paranjoy Guha Thakurta" <paranjoy@...> (by way of Arun Mehta
><arunmehtain@...>)
>To: India  Gii <india-gii@...>
>CC: paranjoy@...
>Subject: The Press Council
>Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 19:22:00 +0530
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>
>My own $0.02: Increasingly we citizens are realizing the value of
>institutions, and of keeping them vibrant. If democracy is to function,
>powers must have checks. That the media has power, Hitler and Goebbels
>taught us over 60 years ago. Since then it has only grown. But where is the
>check to this power? Who do I go to if a newspaper prints lies about me? In
>this country, we are fortunate that we have a Press Council that I can go
>to, with such a complaint, and seek some sort of justice. I think similar
>checks are needed on other entities with power as well. Now, if we do not
>wish the government to take over the role of watchdog in every case, what
>model is there, other than the Press Council?
>
>My support to all those who wish to make the Press Council a better body.
>
>My thanks to Paranjoy for such an excellent paper on the current status of
>this very important debate on the role of the Press Council per se, and in
>the context of convergence.
>Arun
>_________
>Dated: Thursday 10th May 2001
>There seems to be some problem with the URL. So here goes the full article.
>
>DEBATE
>
>A Pressing Need For Counsel
>
>
>Who's afraid of the Press Council of India? Not the major newspaper groups
>in the country or the large television channels. Nor, for that matter, do
>most of the 20,000-odd small and medium-sized publications in the country
>care very much about the "autonomy" of this once-august body. The Council
>is supposed to haul up journalists who abuse their position. It is also
>meant to punish those who abuse journalists. The unpleasant truth is that
>the Council is somewhat akin to a toothless tiger, a phrase that has often
>been used to describe the Monopolies & Restrictive Trade Practices
>Commission.
>
>Instead of giving it teeth, there is talk of doing away with the Press
>Council altogether. This would be a myopic move because the media, like
>other sections of society, is not exactly squeaky clean and above reproach.
>It needs a watchdog, if not a tiger.
>
>Despite its apparent ineffectiveness, the Press Council of India has been
>the subject of a heated debate that has been on over the last few weeks in
>various publications, including two of the biggest English newspapers, the
>Hindustan Times (HT) and The Times of India (TOI). Should the Council be
>abolished? Should it be strengthened? Is the criticism of the Council aimed
>at the retired judge who is heading it, namely, Justice P B Sawant? Or is
>the issue one that transcends personalities, a bigger issue concerning the
>independence and free functioning of the media in the world's largest
>democracy?
>
>
>
>
>The debate over whether the Indian media is capable of self-regulation has
>been going on for decades
>
>
>Whatever be one's subjective opinion on these questions, what cannot be
>denied is the fact that this debate has reached a high decibel level at a
>time when Union Minister of Information & Broadcasting Sushma Swaraj is
>talking of abolishing the Press Council and replacing it by a new Media
>Council.
>
>The debate over whether or not the Indian media needs an ombudsman-like
>organisation or whether it is capable of self-regulation has been going on
>for decades. The most recent phase of this discourse was kicked off by a
>column written by Dileep Padgaonkar, executive managing editor of the TOI,
>in which he castigated the Press Council for its "self-righteous sermons
>and motivated verdicts". Padgaonkar went on to personally attack the
>Council chairman calling him "misguided and plainly authoritarian" and said
>his thinking was "firmly rooted in the licence-control raj". He added that
>Justice Sawant would "sit in judgement on a host of trivial issues or on
>issues which strained his competence to breaking point" and went on to
>sarcastically claim that the only publication the Council chairman would
>consider "factual" and "objective" would be the telephone directory.
>
>Padgaonkar then went a bit overboard saying there was no need for the
>Council and that readers and advertisers were better judges of the quality
>of journalism practiced by the TOI.
>
>Many of these views were endorsed by the editor of the TOI's arch- rival,
>the HT. Vir Sanghvi categorically stated: "For some years now, I have
>regarded its (the Council's) functioning as detrimental to the interests of
>quality journalism". Describing his personal experiences with the Council,
>Sanghvi wrote that the "overwhelming impression I carried home at the end
>of the day was of a bunch of time-servers and small-timers who knew as much
>about the media as I do about rocket science". He approvingly quoted a
>former HT journalist, Brij Bhardwaj, writing in The Pioneer that the
>Council has become "a relic that had outlived its utility".
>
>The other side to the debate came up with senior journalist Ajit
>Bhattacharjea putting up a spirited defence of the Press Council. He said
>the Council protects journalists and newspaper owners in remote areas
>against retribution for exposing local mal-administration. It discourages
>newspapers, especially small town publications, from misusing their columns
>for blackmail or personal gains and delivers verdicts after hearing both
>sides to a complaint. Bhattacharjea, who was himself an editor of the HT,
>acknowledged that while the Council lacked teeth, it still had the powers
>to summon a district collector or a police officer to appear before it and
>this was good enough protection for a journalist who was being harassed by
>government officials.
>
>Bhattacharjea noted that Padgaonkar's pique against Justice Sawant could
>have been prompted by what took place in February 1999 when the Council
>censured the TOI for misusing the services of H. K. Dua (now the Prime
>Minister's media adviser) for assisting the newspaper's proprietor, the
>late Ashok Kumar Jain, who was facing criminal charges under the Foreign
>Exchange Regulation Act. The TOI was required to publish the gist of the
>69-page judgement that criticised the newspaper's management for eventually
>dispensing with the services of Dua, but it chose not to. The Press Council
>could do precious little about this alleged act of insubordination. For, as
>stated before, the Council lacks legal teeth to punish those who flout its
>orders.
>
>The debate continued with Vinod Mehta, editor of Outlook magazine,
>prefacing his remarks with a quotation from William Dorr of the Columbia
>Journalism Review: "Press freedom is too important to be left to
>journalists". Mehta concluded his article by stating that "... we
>(journalists) need to clean up our own act. Our trade employs altogether
>too many fixers, file-filchers, errand boys, facilitators and party
>loyalists masquerading as journos. The tragedy is that while the charlatans
>prosper, the independent journalists languish". Having worked under Mehta,
>I could not agree with him more.
>
>Two other reactions to the debate merit mention. One is from P. Raman,
>former political editor of two financial dailies, Economic Times and
>Business Standard, who has pointed out that the Press Council is the least
>expensive adjudicating agency and operates much faster than our country's
>courts. He nostalgically lamented the fact that issues for the media had
>changed over the years. The media's role as educator, informer and
>conscience keeper had given way to insensitive rules of consumerism. He
>recalled that till the 1970s, names of private companies were not
>mentioned, that the phrase "criminal assault" was used instead of the word
>"rape" and that till as late as the mid-1980s, the Press Council would
>debate the ethics of printing photographs of corpses.
>
>The other reaction, in a self-critical vein, has come from Prakash Patra, a
>senior journalist with the HT who is also a former member of the Council.
>"If the Press Council of India has not been able to meet the aspirations of
>the media..., it is we - members of the press fraternity - who will have to
>accept the blame," wrote Patra. He pointed out that of the 28 members of
>the Council, as many as 19 members are supposed to be journalists
>representing various organisations. If we journalists are unable to uphold
>our own interests by nominating third-rate individuals to the Council, we
>should not be blaming others. Patra, my former colleague, has hit the nail
>on the head.
>
>His boss, Sanghvi, has argued: "The country with the world's most fearless
>press - the United States - has no Press Council. If we are to have one
>here, then we must at least appoint a Council that can win the respect of
>those it is supposed to serve."
>
>There are a number of differences as well as similarities in the working of
>the media in the world's two largest democracies, but this is not the
>occasion to discuss them here. Still, a few points can be mentioned. In
>America, defamation laws are far more stringent than those in India. The
>judicial system also works much faster. Yet it is also true that a
>journalist like Seymour Hersh has got away describing former Indian Prime
>Minister Morarji Desai as a CIA agent. At least two financial journalists
>in the US have had to spend time behind bars after they were charged with
>insider trading. No journalist in India has been punished for such
>misdemeanours. The American media scrutinises the personal lives of
>politicians, bureaucrats and businesspersons through a microscope. The
>Indian media confines such scrutiny to personalities from the world of
>cinema and sports.
>
>The short point is that until our judicial processes become more efficient
>and effective, there is no substitute for a body like the Press Council. If
>anything, it needs to be empowered. Perhaps it needs to be headed by a
>senior journalist and not a retired judge. These are issues that need to be
>debated. Once upon a time, the TOI had appointed a former chief justice of
>the Supreme Court of India as an ombudsman. Whatever happened to him or
>this institution? If self-regulatory bodies were adequate to check the
>abuses journalists are capable of inflicting on hapless individual members
>of the public, there would have been no need for the TOI to have an
>ombudsman in the first place. If the yet-to-be appointed Lok Pal can
>critically examine the actions of the Prime Minister of India, how can
>journalists believe they belong to a different species of human beings? The
>answer to this question should be evident.
>
>Paranjoy Guha Thakurta is a senior journalist and anchors "India Talks", a
>current-affairs, discussion and interview programme broadcast on the CNBC
>India television channel.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

The government still is very concerned at what you connect with what. Don't
they understand that telecom is all about connectivity, and by placing
these restrictions, you are hampering creativity?
Arun
______
http://www.hindubusinessline.com/stories/14116803.htm
VSAT service licence for 20 years to be granted
Our Bureau
NEW DELHI, May 10
THE Government has decided to award licences to Very Small Aperture
Terminal (VSAT) services for operations in Ku-band to provide data or voice
connectivity in closed user group between various sites across the country.
...
Inter-connection with public switched telephone network (PSTN) is not
permitted. However, inter-connection is permitted between terrestrial data
lines of a public nature such as internet/INET and other media to provide
redundancy.
Also, inter-connection with CUGs, between networks of other VSATs,
terrestrial data lines leased by customers of VSAT, overseas office of CUG
and value added network (VAN) operators would be permitted on case-to-case basis


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

My own $0.02: Increasingly we citizens are realizing the value of
institutions, and of keeping them vibrant. If democracy is to function,
powers must have checks. That the media has power, Hitler and Goebbels
taught us over 60 years ago. Since then it has only grown. But where is the
check to this power? Who do I go to if a newspaper prints lies about me? In
this country, we are fortunate that we have a Press Council that I can go
to, with such a complaint, and seek some sort of justice. I think similar
checks are needed on other entities with power as well. Now, if we do not
wish the government to take over the role of watchdog in every case, what
model is there, other than the Press Council?

My support to all those who wish to make the Press Council a better body.

My thanks to Paranjoy for such an excellent paper on the current status of
this very important debate on the role of the Press Council per se, and in
the context of convergence.
Arun
_________
Dated: Thursday 10th May 2001
There seems to be some problem with the URL. So here goes the full article.

DEBATE

A Pressing Need For Counsel


Who's afraid of the Press Council of India? Not the major newspaper groups
in the country or the large television channels. Nor, for that matter, do
most of the 20,000-odd small and medium-sized publications in the country
care very much about the "autonomy" of this once-august body. The Council
is supposed to haul up journalists who abuse their position. It is also
meant to punish those who abuse journalists. The unpleasant truth is that
the Council is somewhat akin to a toothless tiger, a phrase that has often
been used to describe the Monopolies & Restrictive Trade Practices Commission.

Instead of giving it teeth, there is talk of doing away with the Press
Council altogether. This would be a myopic move because the media, like
other sections of society, is not exactly squeaky clean and above reproach.
It needs a watchdog, if not a tiger.

Despite its apparent ineffectiveness, the Press Council of India has been
the subject of a heated debate that has been on over the last few weeks in
various publications, including two of the biggest English newspapers, the
Hindustan Times (HT) and The Times of India (TOI). Should the Council be
abolished? Should it be strengthened? Is the criticism of the Council aimed
at the retired judge who is heading it, namely, Justice P B Sawant? Or is
the issue one that transcends personalities, a bigger issue concerning the
independence and free functioning of the media in the world's largest
democracy?




The debate over whether the Indian media is capable of self-regulation has
been going on for decades


Whatever be one's subjective opinion on these questions, what cannot be
denied is the fact that this debate has reached a high decibel level at a
time when Union Minister of Information & Broadcasting Sushma Swaraj is
talking of abolishing the Press Council and replacing it by a new Media
Council.

The debate over whether or not the Indian media needs an ombudsman-like
organisation or whether it is capable of self-regulation has been going on
for decades. The most recent phase of this discourse was kicked off by a
column written by Dileep Padgaonkar, executive managing editor of the TOI,
in which he castigated the Press Council for its "self-righteous sermons
and motivated verdicts". Padgaonkar went on to personally attack the
Council chairman calling him "misguided and plainly authoritarian" and said
his thinking was "firmly rooted in the licence-control raj". He added that
Justice Sawant would "sit in judgement on a host of trivial issues or on
issues which strained his competence to breaking point" and went on to
sarcastically claim that the only publication the Council chairman would
consider "factual" and "objective" would be the telephone directory.

Padgaonkar then went a bit overboard saying there was no need for the
Council and that readers and advertisers were better judges of the quality
of journalism practiced by the TOI.

Many of these views were endorsed by the editor of the TOI's arch- rival,
the HT. Vir Sanghvi categorically stated: "For some years now, I have
regarded its (the Council's) functioning as detrimental to the interests of
quality journalism". Describing his personal experiences with the Council,
Sanghvi wrote that the "overwhelming impression I carried home at the end
of the day was of a bunch of time-servers and small-timers who knew as much
about the media as I do about rocket science". He approvingly quoted a
former HT journalist, Brij Bhardwaj, writing in The Pioneer that the
Council has become "a relic that had outlived its utility".

The other side to the debate came up with senior journalist Ajit
Bhattacharjea putting up a spirited defence of the Press Council. He said
the Council protects journalists and newspaper owners in remote areas
against retribution for exposing local mal-administration. It discourages
newspapers, especially small town publications, from misusing their columns
for blackmail or personal gains and delivers verdicts after hearing both
sides to a complaint. Bhattacharjea, who was himself an editor of the HT,
acknowledged that while the Council lacked teeth, it still had the powers
to summon a district collector or a police officer to appear before it and
this was good enough protection for a journalist who was being harassed by
government officials.

Bhattacharjea noted that Padgaonkar's pique against Justice Sawant could
have been prompted by what took place in February 1999 when the Council
censured the TOI for misusing the services of H. K. Dua (now the Prime
Minister's media adviser) for assisting the newspaper's proprietor, the
late Ashok Kumar Jain, who was facing criminal charges under the Foreign
Exchange Regulation Act. The TOI was required to publish the gist of the
69-page judgement that criticised the newspaper's management for eventually
dispensing with the services of Dua, but it chose not to. The Press Council
could do precious little about this alleged act of insubordination. For, as
stated before, the Council lacks legal teeth to punish those who flout its
orders.

The debate continued with Vinod Mehta, editor of Outlook magazine,
prefacing his remarks with a quotation from William Dorr of the Columbia
Journalism Review: "Press freedom is too important to be left to
journalists". Mehta concluded his article by stating that "... we
(journalists) need to clean up our own act. Our trade employs altogether
too many fixers, file-filchers, errand boys, facilitators and party
loyalists masquerading as journos. The tragedy is that while the charlatans
prosper, the independent journalists languish". Having worked under Mehta,
I could not agree with him more.

Two other reactions to the debate merit mention. One is from P. Raman,
former political editor of two financial dailies, Economic Times and
Business Standard, who has pointed out that the Press Council is the least
expensive adjudicating agency and operates much faster than our country's
courts. He nostalgically lamented the fact that issues for the media had
changed over the years. The media's role as educator, informer and
conscience keeper had given way to insensitive rules of consumerism. He
recalled that till the 1970s, names of private companies were not
mentioned, that the phrase "criminal assault" was used instead of the word
"rape" and that till as late as the mid-1980s, the Press Council would
debate the ethics of printing photographs of corpses.

The other reaction, in a self-critical vein, has come from Prakash Patra, a
senior journalist with the HT who is also a former member of the Council.
"If the Press Council of India has not been able to meet the aspirations of
the media..., it is we - members of the press fraternity - who will have to
accept the blame," wrote Patra. He pointed out that of the 28 members of
the Council, as many as 19 members are supposed to be journalists
representing various organisations. If we journalists are unable to uphold
our own interests by nominating third-rate individuals to the Council, we
should not be blaming others. Patra, my former colleague, has hit the nail
on the head.

His boss, Sanghvi, has argued: "The country with the world's most fearless
press - the United States - has no Press Council. If we are to have one
here, then we must at least appoint a Council that can win the respect of
those it is supposed to serve."

There are a number of differences as well as similarities in the working of
the media in the world's two largest democracies, but this is not the
occasion to discuss them here. Still, a few points can be mentioned. In
America, defamation laws are far more stringent than those in India. The
judicial system also works much faster. Yet it is also true that a
journalist like Seymour Hersh has got away describing former Indian Prime
Minister Morarji Desai as a CIA agent. At least two financial journalists
in the US have had to spend time behind bars after they were charged with
insider trading. No journalist in India has been punished for such
misdemeanours. The American media scrutinises the personal lives of
politicians, bureaucrats and businesspersons through a microscope. The
Indian media confines such scrutiny to personalities from the world of
cinema and sports.

The short point is that until our judicial processes become more efficient
and effective, there is no substitute for a body like the Press Council. If
anything, it needs to be empowered. Perhaps it needs to be headed by a
senior journalist and not a retired judge. These are issues that need to be
debated. Once upon a time, the TOI had appointed a former chief justice of
the Supreme Court of India as an ombudsman. Whatever happened to him or
this institution? If self-regulatory bodies were adequate to check the
abuses journalists are capable of inflicting on hapless individual members
of the public, there would have been no need for the TOI to have an
ombudsman in the first place. If the yet-to-be appointed Lok Pal can
critically examine the actions of the Prime Minister of India, how can
journalists believe they belong to a different species of human beings? The
answer to this question should be evident.

Paranjoy Guha Thakurta is a senior journalist and anchors "India Talks", a
current-affairs, discussion and interview programme broadcast on the CNBC
India television channel.






_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Sure Suresh,

I am the secretary of the ISPAI. We  could remain in touch, and would also
like to keep Mr. Deepak Maheshwari, who is the Co-ordinator - Technical Sub
committee in ISPAI, on the issues concerned.

Regards

Please watch VK Cherian and me on Jain TV IT News
tonight at 20:15 Indian time on the cyberporno
controversy.

VK Cherian and I had also appeared yesterday on Jain
IT News on the MEA cracking by GForce Pakistan, as
well as on cyberporno.

IT News is at 20:15 every night on Jain TV.

Ravi Visvesvaraya Prasad

=====
Ravi Visvesvaraya Prasadhttp://rvp.tripod.com/telecom.htmrvp@lycos.com,
rvp@..., rvp@... : {91} [11] 526-6868, 527-638619 Maitri Apts,
A - 3 Paschim Vihar, New Delhi, 110 063, India.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/

Definitely.  Could you put me in touch with ISPAI if possible?

amitabh@... wrote:

> Good idea. Pls o it and keep me in the list, so that i can keep myself
> updated. The discussion could be circulated amongst ISP's thru the ISP
> Association, to generate awareness and for them to take appropriate action as
> may be required.

--
Suresh Ramasubramanian + suresh@...
"There is nothing new under the sun, but there are lots of old things
  we don't know yet."
  -Ambrose Bierce

Good idea. Pls o it and keep me in the list, so that i can keep myself
updated. The discussion could be circulated amongst ISP's thru the ISP
Association, to generate awareness and for them to take appropriate action as
may be required.

Regds

U.S.-Immigration-H1-B

One H1-B victory, but thousands in "slave-like" state

by Sukhjit Purewal, India Abroad News Service

San Francisco, May 5 - Dipen Joshi may have won his case against the
consultancy firm, Compubahn Inc., that tried to hold him to an illegal
contract, but there are thousands of other H1-B employees languishing under
onerous "slave-like conditions."

San Francisco attorney Mukesh Advani, who first advised Joshi and usually
helps consultancy firms, or "body shops," draw up their contracts and other
legal regulations, said most of the contracts he has seen for consultancy
firms contain language that is restrictive and often illegal.

"Slavery was supposed to have been abolished in this country 200 years
ago -- this is like bonded labor in India," Advani told IANS.

Although there is no precise figure as to how many H1-B visa holders work
for such consultancy firms waiting to parceled out for temporary
assignments, a large number are believed to fall into this category. "It is
an unenviable position to be in," Advani said.

Georgetown University demographer B. Lindsay Lowell said in some cases
"temporary" workers earn 46 percent less than those holding permanent "core"
jobs. Lowell said H1-B visa holders who have been in the country for five
years or less, are three times as likely to be in these poor-paying
contingent jobs as compared with five percent of the native population.

That is what makes Joshi's case a potential lightening rod for helping to
improve working conditions for H1-B visa holders working for "body shops."

Joshi successfully sued Compubahn for violation of California's non-compete
clause in January 2000. He was awarded $215,000 in legal fees and other
expenses in late April.

Earlier Joshi's attorney Michael Papuc had said he has advised Joshi not to
speak with the media. "I'm very proud of Joshi, he could have paid these
guys a few thousand dollars and gotten rid of them," Advani said. "But he
didn't, he said, 'I'm going to fight these guys.'"

The case began in 1999 when Compubahn demanded Joshi pay the company $77,085
for damages and a finder's fee when he left to join Oracle before completing
an 18-month contract with Compubahn.

But Joshi refused and instead sued Compubahn for fraud, misrepresentation
and for violation of the state's unfair competition statue.

San Mateo County Superior Court Judge Phrasel Shelton ruled in Joshi's favor
on the unfair competition statute in February of this year and ordered
Compubahn to drop restrictive language in its employee contracts.

"The three clauses that had to be excluded from the contracts were as
follows: employees could not go to work for competitors a year after leaving
Compubahn, employees had to pay a $25,000 finder's fee if they left, and
they had to reimburse Compubahn for immigration and training costs," Joshi's
attorney Michael Papuc said.

Advani said it is one thing for a company to want to recoup the costs it
took to relocate and train an employee. The case affected 38 other Compubahn
contracts.

In most cases, newly arrived H1-B visa holders know nothing about the legal
system of America even though they are highly educated, Advani said. "They
can do nothing but assume it is legal if they are told it is."

--India Abroad News Service


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

At 7:09 pm +0530 8/5/01, Gurpreet Singh wrote:
>Noted .. infact we at DelhiNet, follow the what Suresh suggests.
>
>-- Now Web Space on servers Hosted at EXODUS for Just Rs. 10/- per
>Mb per month
>
>-- E-Commerce enable your web site for as as low as Rs. 8,500 per annum
>
>-- Now, Pay ONLINE for our services from our website, using your CREDIT CARD.
>
>-- Pay for our Services through ICICI Bank Sitting anywhere in India

Now why do I get the feeling we've been had?
--
Vickram

Noted .. infact we at DelhiNet, follow the what Suresh suggests.

Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote:

> Bhavin Turakhia [08/05/01 14:47 +0530]:
>
> > and the fact that most ISPs in India dont even have a compliance dept, or
> > even for that mater an abuse@....
>
> This is one of the first things which has to be addressed
>
> > Some of my clients figure out that their mailboxes are not working, when
> > they stop getting SPAM..... and believe me I am not trying to voice out a
> > positive side here :-D
>
> So, filter it ... just about every mailserver around (even the NT based ones)
> offers quite good filtering and blocking capablities.
>
> > 1. ISPs/dotcoms/webhosts should take stricter actions against spammers. I am
> > not for deleting people accounts or harming them in any way. A large
>
> You are asking for "have the cake and eat it too" situations.
>
> > percentage of spammers are also innocent people who have been swindled into
> > buying an email database (surprisingly large number of people fall for this)
> > and are using it. But a strict warning with a possibility of strict action
>
> In all cases :
>
> 1. Cancel the account / disable the website etc
>
> 2. Demand an explanation from the user
>
> 3. If he (in your opinion) offers a sincere apology, get a written
> undertaking that he will NOT spam again.  If he starts offering lame excuses
> like "opt in lists", quotes (bogus) US spam laws (all of them are bogus - and
> none of them apply in India anyway) and "freedom of speech", do NOT
> restore the account.
>
> 4. If he still spams, remove him permanently from your service - and maybe
> fine him for breaking the undertaking.
>
> > 2. ISPs/webhosts should have someone who takes up this responsibility. I
> > dont say depute someone fulltime on this, but answering 2-3 emails a day and
> > maintaining a general POLICY does not take much effort. In the middle I
>
> My dear sir, I used to work on the abuse team of an American ISP (Juno).
> There, I personally used to answer about 300 spam complaints a day - and my
> six colleagues together handled 300 or so each per day.  Not bad figures,
> considering Juno has around 4 million users.
>
> > believe VSNL did have strict policies and did take ACTION against spammers.
> > Offlate however the lack of action taken by most ISPs/webhosts actually
> > discourages me from filing a complaint - since I hardly believe anything
> > would get done
>
>  VSNL does have good anti-spam policies in place - and they do respond (even
>  though it often takes time for a response).  Some ISPs (like powersurfer,
>  now-india, zeenext, roltanet ..) do not bother to respond at all - even if I
>  cc their whois contacts after postmaster / abuse addresses bounce.
>
> > 3. I wonder what the legal angle on this is. I doubt spamming could be
> > considered a punishable offence under Indian law, however a large percentage
> > of people do not understand that the other aspects probably count far more.
>
>  Forget all that!  Spamming is against the terms of service / acceptable use
>  policy you (and your upstream providers) have.  The user accepts these terms
>  upon joining and using your service.  So this is in the nature of a contract
>  between the user and the ISP.  Contract law says that if any one party
>  acts contrary to the terms of the contract, it is voidable.  That is, you
>  can terminate the spammer as he has broken the terms of a contract with you.
>
> > At best you may escape with a bad impression, at WORST your site could get
> > blacklisted. I believe education in this respect is needed.
>
>  No, Bhavin ... at worst, the local ISP which refuses to take action can get
>  its access cut off when its upstream provider (whom it peers with / where
>  its servers are colocated) decides to take action as per *their* anti-spam
>  policy.
>
>  So, any ISP which does not terminate spammers, and a lot of whose IP space
>  is blacklisted as a result, will take action to terminate the spammers, and
>  maybe even stop peering / providing colocation services for the ISP itself.
>  Yes - this has happened.
>
>  As several Indian ISPs either peer with an ISP (like uunet, cable and
>  wireless, singtel etc) or colocate with an ISP (like exodus, rackspace,
>  colossus) the worst can happen - and has happened once or twice in the past.
>
> > lightly. If however there was some defined set of rules that all ISPs
> > followed as a standard - 3 warnings and then SUSPEND - say for instance. it
> > would then become an industry thumbrule....
>
>  No.  Zero Tolerance policies will do a far better job of deterring spam.
>
> > PS: SURESH, i am on the cyberlaw list .... so dont post me twice :-D
>
>  Sorry about that - the others arent on the list.  I have removed the cc to
>  you anyway
>
>         -suresh

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The information contained in this electronic transmission is intended only for
the
use of the recipient and may be confidential and privileged. Unauthorized use,
disclosure or reproduction is strictly prohibited, and unlawful.  If you have
received this electronic transmission in error, please notify the sender
immediately.

Markandeya, Navinchandra [Mon, May 07, 2001 at 11:48:07AM -0400]:

> mailto:nmark@...

This is not the way at all ...
Just mail to india-gii-unsubscribe-nmark=proxicom.com@... instead.

	 -s
--
Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh@...>

Ratnendra Pandey [Mon, May 07, 2001 at 08:48:01AM -0700]:

> (1) It says that Indian companies hoping to thrive on IT-enabled services
> (or "Telework business", the term used by author(s)  to describe back office
> work) have very little or no marketing presense in the target country (like

Little or no marketing presence?  What such setups usually have is maybe a
couple of staffers (or a couple of close relatives) stateside.  And a computer
with an Internet connection.  So they either spam to get services (yeah, seen
that happen) or do some good old door-to-door salesmanship.

The bigger setups usually have one or more people who have worked with the
outsourcing company stateside, or know someone who works there.

> USA/Europe). I doubt many  subscribers on this list have ever been serious
> about MARKETING aspect of business. I think this is the most important
> message in this article.

Its pretty sleazy - definitely not a very palatable angle.

> (2) Privacy, which has very little value in Indian system, is highly valued
> in West and it could be an deterrent in prolifration of medical
> transcription business in India.

It is a *huge* deterrent. 99.99999% of the "medical transcription" firms I've
seen in Hyderabad (where each new online fashion catches on very fast) are
bogus, fly-by-night outfits.  Such concerns are quite justified.

> (3) Infrastrucutre (Power and Telecommunication). A lot has already been
> written about it.

And the infrastructure angle is a bit overrated.  The situation is far better
right now.  Most of the dual generator backup, imported sound tiles etc seems
to be the "a bit extra" to convince dubious Americans who believe that India's
telephone system is still made of string and tin-cans (or at least, old
fashioned Strowger exchanges).

Strowgers, btw, are named after Almon Strowger, a Kansas City undertaker who
developed the first telephone exchange - after he found that a telephone
operator, the wife of his competitor, was diverting calls meant for him to her
husband.  He also developed the rotary-dial telephone.  So yeah, those babies
are *really* old technology.

> (4) Most of the back office work is excotic for many Indians. Like very few
> indians use check books, plastics, online purchases etc....

Again, the sort of Indians who work in such places (typically, totally
americanized kids fresh from college, bored housewives who find this makes for
extra "kitty party" income ...) *have* heard of and do use all these.  Which is
all these companies need to be concerned about.

> (5) Last but not the Least. Perception is sometimes more important than
> reality. At any time, at any rate, an article written in The Economist has
> more PR value than that written on Yahoo message board or on similar other
> platform. If nothing else this article provides good PR value.

Good PR value to an industry parts of which should be buried without a trace (I
refer to the "americanized accents and names" part).  Otherwise, outsourcing is
a common thing in any industry ... nothing new at all.  The TVS group has been
making radiator caps and other small parts for GM cars since quite some time,
for instance.  Nothing to make a big song-and-dance about, even if it is in
such a "new economy" industry :)

--
Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh@...>

Bhavin Turakhia [08/05/01 14:47 +0530]:

> and the fact that most ISPs in India dont even have a compliance dept, or
> even for that mater an abuse@....

This is one of the first things which has to be addressed

> Some of my clients figure out that their mailboxes are not working, when
> they stop getting SPAM..... and believe me I am not trying to voice out a
> positive side here :-D

So, filter it ... just about every mailserver around (even the NT based ones)
offers quite good filtering and blocking capablities.

> 1. ISPs/dotcoms/webhosts should take stricter actions against spammers. I am
> not for deleting people accounts or harming them in any way. A large

You are asking for "have the cake and eat it too" situations.

> percentage of spammers are also innocent people who have been swindled into
> buying an email database (surprisingly large number of people fall for this)
> and are using it. But a strict warning with a possibility of strict action

In all cases :

1. Cancel the account / disable the website etc

2. Demand an explanation from the user

3. If he (in your opinion) offers a sincere apology, get a written
undertaking that he will NOT spam again.  If he starts offering lame excuses
like "opt in lists", quotes (bogus) US spam laws (all of them are bogus - and
none of them apply in India anyway) and "freedom of speech", do NOT
restore the account.

4. If he still spams, remove him permanently from your service - and maybe
fine him for breaking the undertaking.

> 2. ISPs/webhosts should have someone who takes up this responsibility. I
> dont say depute someone fulltime on this, but answering 2-3 emails a day and
> maintaining a general POLICY does not take much effort. In the middle I

My dear sir, I used to work on the abuse team of an American ISP (Juno).
There, I personally used to answer about 300 spam complaints a day - and my
six colleagues together handled 300 or so each per day.  Not bad figures,
considering Juno has around 4 million users.

> believe VSNL did have strict policies and did take ACTION against spammers.
> Offlate however the lack of action taken by most ISPs/webhosts actually
> discourages me from filing a complaint - since I hardly believe anything
> would get done

  VSNL does have good anti-spam policies in place - and they do respond (even
  though it often takes time for a response).  Some ISPs (like powersurfer,
  now-india, zeenext, roltanet ..) do not bother to respond at all - even if I
  cc their whois contacts after postmaster / abuse addresses bounce.

> 3. I wonder what the legal angle on this is. I doubt spamming could be
> considered a punishable offence under Indian law, however a large percentage
> of people do not understand that the other aspects probably count far more.

  Forget all that!  Spamming is against the terms of service / acceptable use
  policy you (and your upstream providers) have.  The user accepts these terms
  upon joining and using your service.  So this is in the nature of a contract
  between the user and the ISP.  Contract law says that if any one party
  acts contrary to the terms of the contract, it is voidable.  That is, you
  can terminate the spammer as he has broken the terms of a contract with you.

> At best you may escape with a bad impression, at WORST your site could get
> blacklisted. I believe education in this respect is needed.

  No, Bhavin ... at worst, the local ISP which refuses to take action can get
  its access cut off when its upstream provider (whom it peers with / where
  its servers are colocated) decides to take action as per *their* anti-spam
  policy.

  So, any ISP which does not terminate spammers, and a lot of whose IP space
  is blacklisted as a result, will take action to terminate the spammers, and
  maybe even stop peering / providing colocation services for the ISP itself.
  Yes - this has happened.

  As several Indian ISPs either peer with an ISP (like uunet, cable and
  wireless, singtel etc) or colocate with an ISP (like exodus, rackspace,
  colossus) the worst can happen - and has happened once or twice in the past.

> lightly. If however there was some defined set of rules that all ISPs
> followed as a standard - 3 warnings and then SUSPEND - say for instance. it
> would then become an industry thumbrule....

  No.  Zero Tolerance policies will do a far better job of deterring spam.

> PS: SURESH, i am on the cyberlaw list .... so dont post me twice :-D

  Sorry about that - the others arent on the list.  I have removed the cc to
  you anyway

 	 -suresh

If there are members on this list who are interested in venture capital in
India, I invite them to write to me for a free trial copy of the Analyst,
India's first private equity review. This is the first time that anyone has
published authentic, verified information on the venture capital business in
India. The publication is primarily targeted at VCs and investment bankers.

I look forward to hearing from this group.

Venky Hariharan
Editor and CEO
www.venturekatalyst.com
Analyst (India's first private equity review)

These points make this article interesting:

(1) It says that Indian companies hoping to thrive on IT-enabled services
(or "Telework business", the term used by author(s)  to describe back office
work) have very little or no marketing presense in the target country (like
USA/Europe). I doubt many  subscribers on this list have ever been serious
about MARKETING aspect of business. I think this is the most important
message in this article.

(2) Privacy, which has very little value in Indian system, is highly valued
in West and it could be an deterrent in prolifration of medical
transcription business in India.

(3) Infrastrucutre (Power and Telecommunication). A lot has already been
written about it.

(4) Most of the back office work is excotic for many Indians. Like very few
indians use check books, plastics, online purchases etc....

(5) Last but not the Least. Perception is sometimes more important than
reality. At any time, at any rate, an article written in The Economist has
more PR value than that written on Yahoo message board or on similar other
platform. If nothing else this article provides good PR value.


Ratnendra Pandey

>From: Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh@...>
>Reply-To: Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh@...>
>To: india-gii@...
>Subject: Re: Back office to the world
>Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 11:28:34 +0530
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Received: from [204.42.254.228] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id
>MHotMailBCBF85F600784004374ACC2AFEE471400; Sun May 06 23:04:39 2001
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>(8.12.0.Beta7/8.12.0.Beta7/mjollnir-2.4) id f475wYSr014304for
>india-gii@...; Mon, 7 May 2001 11:28:34 +0530
>From india-gii-return-1866-pandey Sun May 06 23:04:51 2001
>Mailing-List: contact india-gii-help@...; run by ezmlm
>Precedence: bulk
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>User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.17i
>In-Reply-To: <F123FXfyY0QUUBPcZi700003dba@...>; from
>pandey@... on Sun, May 06, 2001 at 05:24:03PM -0700
>Organization: OyeIndia Internetworks
>X-OS: Linux mjollnir.rocklines.oyeindia.com 2.4.4
>
>Ratnendra Pandey got onto a soapbox and declaimed:
>
> > http://economist.com/printedition/PrinterFriendly.cfm?Story_ID=610986
> > THE ECONOMIST, MAY 3, 2001
>
>  Seems to be a topic of endless fascination - but again, this has been
>  discussed threadbare on GII before :)
>
>   -s
>--
>Suresh Ramasubramanian + suresh@...
>Friday@... + http://kcircle.com
>The naked truth of it is, I have no shirt.
>  -- William Shakespeare, "Love's Labour's Lost"

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

mailto:nmark@...

It wont reach the lists as they are subscriber-only.
Next monday is okay by me, assuming we can garner support from a large number of
ISPs (or at least get
them to lend us their ears.  We come to bury spam, not to praise it) :)

Devdas Bhagat [Mon, May 07, 2001 at 09:05:12PM +0530]:
> On Mon, 07 May 2001, Suresh Ramasubramanian spewed into the ether:
> (This will probably not make it to the lists, but hopefully it might)
>
> > I would love to do this, if possible.  However, given the fact that
> > distances are a hassle (I'm in Bangalore, some of you are in
> > Bombay / Delhi etc) could something like an IRC session be arranged
> > initially?
> Good idea. Shall we say next Monday for this? To determine the minimal
> agenda for the group.
>
> > At least some ISPs (such as Pravin Mishra of Pugmarks) have
> > already expressed interest in this, so I expect this won't die an
> > ignominous death like a couple of my other ideas have in the past :)
> Add one to that.
>
> > If we can rope in the major ISPs (VSNL, Satyam etc), webhosts and webmail
> > providers (such as rediff and 123india.com) we can get off to a good start.
> This is the important thing.
>
> > Digging deeper, I see that most providers already have some sort of policy -
so
> > the real challenge lies in working out a viable implementation strategy (and
> > not having any qualms about kicking spamming users off the system even if
they
> > are "dotcoms" colocating one or more servers with you)
> And most importantly, ensuring that none of the other providers turn a
> blind eye to this. We need a SDP (Spam Death Penalty) to enforce this,
> perhaps?.
>
> Devdas Bhagat
> --
> If a fool persists in his folly he shall become wise.
> 	 -- William Blake

--
Suresh Ramasubramanian + suresh@...
Friday@... + http://kcircle.com
union, n.:
	 A dues-paying club workers wield to strike management.

It wont reach the lists - susbcriber only...
reposting it

----- Forwarded message from Devdas Bhagat <devdas@...> -----

From: Devdas Bhagat <devdas@...>
Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 21:05:12 +0530
To: Suresh Ramasubramanian <suresh@...>,
    Arun Mehta <arunmehtain@...>
Cc: India-GII <india-gii@...>,
    Cyberlaw-India <cyberlaw-india@yahoogroups.com>,
    CAUCE Comments <comments@...>
Subject: Re: query: Is there any list specifically for Indian ISPs?
Reply-To: devdas@...
Organization: Worldgate Networks
X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.29]

On Mon, 07 May 2001, Suresh Ramasubramanian spewed into the ether:
(This will probably not make it to the lists, but hopefully it might)

> I would love to do this, if possible.  However, given the fact that
> distances are a hassle (I'm in Bangalore, some of you are in
> Bombay / Delhi etc) could something like an IRC session be arranged
> initially?
Good idea. Shall we say next Monday for this? To determine the minimal
agenda for the group.

> At least some ISPs (such as Pravin Mishra of Pugmarks) have
> already expressed interest in this, so I expect this won't die an
> ignominous death like a couple of my other ideas have in the past :)
Add one to that.

> If we can rope in the major ISPs (VSNL, Satyam etc), webhosts and webmail
> providers (such as rediff and 123india.com) we can get off to a good start.
This is the important thing.

> Digging deeper, I see that most providers already have some sort of policy -
so
> the real challenge lies in working out a viable implementation strategy (and
> not having any qualms about kicking spamming users off the system even if they
> are "dotcoms" colocating one or more servers with you)
And most importantly, ensuring that none of the other providers turn a
blind eye to this. We need a SDP (Spam Death Penalty) to enforce this,
perhaps?.

Devdas Bhagat
--
If a fool persists in his folly he shall become wise.
		 -- William Blake

----- End forwarded message -----

--
Suresh Ramasubramanian + suresh@...
Friday@... + http://kcircle.com
union, n.:
	 A dues-paying club workers wield to strike management.

Ravi V Prasad [Mon, May 07, 2001 at 12:24:53PM -0000]:

> Does anyone have more info about the cracking of the Ministry of
> External Affairs by GForce Pakistan? MEA's website is still down. All
> the concerned people of both MEA and NIC are away due to Buddha
> holiday.

As usual.  "Concerned person is not there" - and the concerned person remains
blissfully unconcerned even if he is there.

> I emailed Rattlesnake and heataz of GForce, but have not received any
> reply from them. Attrition has not yet carried it. But MEA's website
> is still down, and there is no one to comment on it.

This will keep happening as long as they dont have enough clue level ...

> By the way, Infosys website was also broken into today afternoon and
> its servers brought down.

And Infy at least should have enough expertise to secure their blasted servers
... but such unimportant details dont exactly occur to them when they are busy
bagging and working on multi-million dollar projects :)

I have bugged a couple of friends at Infy abt this before - but they were not
admins :)

--
Suresh Ramasubramanian + suresh@...
union, n.: A dues-paying club workers wield to strike management.

Arun Mehta [Mon, May 07, 2001 at 07:24:50PM +0530]:

> More power to you, Suresh -- my Inbox wishes you speedy success in your
> efforts to curb spam in a responsible fashion.

A pleasure

> Amitabh, why not get Suresh to talk to your ISPAI members about tightening
> their policies and facilities to cut down spam? Also, if there isn't a
> mailing list of the ISPs, there should be one...

I would love to do this, if possible.  However, given the fact that distances
are a hassle (I'm in Bangalore, some of you are in Bombay / Delhi etc) could
something like an IRC session be arranged initially?

At least some ISPs (such as Pravin Mishra of Pugmarks) have already expressed
interest in this, so I expect this won't die an ignominous death like a couple
of my other ideas have in the past :)

If we can rope in the major ISPs (VSNL, Satyam etc), webhosts and webmail
providers (such as rediff and 123india.com) we can get off to a good start.

Digging deeper, I see that most providers already have some sort of policy - so
the real challenge lies in working out a viable implementation strategy (and
not having any qualms about kicking spamming users off the system even if they
are "dotcoms" colocating one or more servers with you)

	 -suresh

More power to you, Suresh -- my Inbox wishes you speedy success in your
efforts to curb spam in a responsible fashion.

Amitabh, why not get Suresh to talk to your ISPAI members about tightening
their policies and facilities to cut down spam? Also, if there isn't a
mailing list of the ISPs, there should be one...
Arun
At 5/7/2001, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote:
>Thanks to Devdas Bhagat (who is an admin at Worldgatein.com, an ISP in
>Gujarat - and a CAUCE India member) I plan to start a list called isp-india,
>which will bring together admins / executives from ISPs and webhosts around
>India and which will be aimed at addressing:
>
>1. Inter-ISP cooperation / contact re these issues
>
>2. Discussion of anti-spam / cracking policies of ISPs (not exactly govt
>cyberlaws, which would be more within the purview of claw-in or gii)
>
>I'd request those of you who represent ISPs / webhosts / email providers
>here to give some feedback before I set this list up.


_________________________________________________________
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Does anyone have more info about the cracking of the Ministry of
External Affairs by GForce Pakistan? MEA's website is still down. All
the concerned people of both MEA and NIC are away due to Buddha
holiday.

I emailed Rattlesnake and heataz of GForce, but have not received any
reply from them. Attrition has not yet carried it. But MEA's website
is still down, and there is no one to comment on it.

By the way, Infosys website was also broken into today afternoon and
its servers brought down.

Ravi Visvesvaraya Prasad


Hindu, Monday, 07 May 2001
MEA website hacked


By Amit Baruah

SINGAPORE, MAY 6. Pro-Pakistani hackers have defiled the website of
the Ministry of External Affairs posting anti-India messages on the
site. ``We got owned by Number 1 activist force GFORCE,'' one of the
many notes put up on the website read.

``India declared terrorist State. Kashmir soon to be a free land and
Indian atrocities on Kashmir, When will this end?'' are other
messages posted on the website.

The hackers seem to be angry about the repeated references to the ISI
and its destabilising role in India. A final message from the hackers
reads: ``We will be owning major Indian Government sites in the next
few weeks.''

Hi everybody.
For an article I am writing on women's portals, I need some data on NRIs. I
was wondering whether anybody can help with the information or point me to
resources where I can tap it.
(a) The spread of NRIs across different countries and numbers. Gender-wise
numbers would be superb.
(b) An fix on the number of them online. Specifically, number of NRI women
online.
(c) The NRI/PIO traffic onto Indian portals like Rediff, Indiatimes etc. I
have some vague numbers about the traffic on Rediff is about 50:50
(NRI:Resident Indian), but some accurate numbers would help. Again, a
break-up of traffic women vs men would be tremendously useful.

Thanks for your time and apols if this is a bother.

Bests,

Josey Puliyenthuruthel John
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Hi

This is further to a post I made on India-Gii ... and my first post on
Cyberlaw India.

A brief intro: I'm president of CAUCE India <http://www.india.cauce.org>, the
Indian chapter of one of the largest volunteer anti-spam organizations in the
world <http://www.cauce.org>

Right now, re several posts about curbing spam / cracking from Indian
servers, here's a short summary of the major problems:

1. Lack of concrete provisions in an ISP's "terms of service"

2. Lack of standard operating procedures to enforce these terms, even if the
appropriate clauses exist.

3. Absence of regularly monitored postmaster and abuse accounts (these are
required to exist and be monitored, as per several RFCs) - even in the case
of ISPs like VSNL

4. Lack of awareness of spam / cracking related issues among ISP helpdesk
personnel, leading to mishandled complaints.

5. Lack of security consciousness among several Indian ISPs, who run open
relay smtp servers (permitting unauthorized users to relay mail), unpatched
servers which are vulnerable to being cracked, etc.

There are, in fact, several lists where ISP systems administrators
participate (such as the linux lists) and others where ISP management
participates. However, there is no common list right now (such as the lists
hosted on isp-lists.isp-planet.com)

Thanks to Devdas Bhagat (who is an admin at Worldgatein.com, an ISP in
Gujarat - and a CAUCE India member) I plan to start a list called isp-india,
which will bring together admins / executives from ISPs and webhosts around
India and which will be aimed at addressing:

1. Inter-ISP cooperation / contact re these issues

2. Discussion of anti-spam / cracking policies of ISPs (not exactly govt
cyberlaws, which would be more within the purview of claw-in or gii)

I'd request those of you who represent ISPs / webhosts / email providers
here to give some feedback before I set this list up.

regards
--suresh

Ratnendra Pandey got onto a soapbox and declaimed:

> http://economist.com/printedition/PrinterFriendly.cfm?Story_ID=610986
> THE ECONOMIST, MAY 3, 2001

  Seems to be a topic of endless fascination - but again, this has been
  discussed threadbare on GII before :)

 	 -s
--
Suresh Ramasubramanian + suresh@...
Friday@... + http://kcircle.com
The naked truth of it is, I have no shirt.
		 -- William Shakespeare, "Love's Labour's Lost"