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Is there a lack of perceived schedule pressure in Kanban?   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #1743 of 6445 |
I'm experienced with Scrum but just learning about Kanban. There is
one aspect of Scrum which I am trying to compare against Kanban, that
is the pressure to produce as experienced by members of the team.

In Scrum development the team makes a commitment (to the product
owners and themselves) to finish a set of stories during each
iteration. Then each day in the daily standup, team members again
make commitments to their peers about which task(s) they plan to
finish that day.

These regular commitments in Scrum result in a perceived pressure for
individual team members to produce. This can result from peer
pressure, integrity (keeping one's word), increased ownership (having
made the commitments themselves, as opposed to having them dictated by
management), or simply fear (of appearing not to be pulling one's
weight relative to the rest of the team). These are all aspects of
the maxim "deadlines get things done".

This sense of pressure is not necessarily positive. While it can
result in increased output by each team member, it can also backfire
and cause some people to cut corners in the short term (declaring
tasks as "done" with poor quality or net positive technical debt), and
to cause others to experience burn-out in the long run.

How is this reflected in Kanban? I know that some units of work
(tasks/stories/CRs/whatever) can have individual deadlines. How does
the lack of other artificial deadlines (created and imposed by other
processes such as Scrum) help or hinder in Kanban?

Thanks,
-- Tim Uttormark




Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:05 pm

timuttormark
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Message #1743 of 6445 |
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I'm experienced with Scrum but just learning about Kanban. There is one aspect of Scrum which I am trying to compare against Kanban, that is the pressure to...
timuttormark
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Jan 30, 2009
9:05 pm

Cycle time is the center of the universe. Control charts and histograms are its messengers. Standard work is the foundation of continuous improvement....
Corey Ladas
corey.ladas
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Jan 30, 2009
9:16 pm

Hi Tim, It's interesting that you bring this up. Neither Deming nor Goldratt believe in the type of deadline setting, commitment based approach your...
David J Anderson
netherby_uk
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Feb 2, 2009
4:28 am

I agree. I hope that any mature agile team would be able to address this sort of dysfunctional behaviour themselves. I don't think process corrects...
Stephen Palmer
stephenrpalmer
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Feb 2, 2009
1:42 pm

Hi All, I'm helping a friend adopt some lean practices at a company that works in an entirely distributed manner. Right now they use "dot project" Gantt...
Clinton Keith
clintonnkeith
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Feb 2, 2009
10:34 pm

Clint, I did not notice any replies to this, so I will tell you my experiences. When we first started using a "kanban" approach, the biggest win for us was to...
Landes Eric (CI/AFR2-...
dcma_eric
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Feb 4, 2009
8:01 pm

Hi Eric, Thanks for the response. This team is distributed however, so the "cards in a visible place" approach won't work for them. Are there any tools or...
Clinton Keith
clintonnkeith
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Feb 4, 2009
9:14 pm

Hi Clint, While doing what we can to co-locate the teams at a particular geographical site, resource constraints concerning 'off-shored' development teams and...
Greg Frazer
cdncanoe
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Feb 5, 2009
2:03 am

Hi Greg, Thanks for the information. I'm shocked at the lack of tools to address this need. I'd love to see the tool you are developing at the conference or...
Clinton Keith
clintonnkeith
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Feb 5, 2009
6:46 pm

I'm always curious about this insistence on tracking and management tools being free. Why? Is this because management with the budget for tools simply doesn't ...
David J Anderson
netherby_uk
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Feb 6, 2009
6:31 pm

David, ... Great question. I had to ask myself this question since that was an important criteria when I was managing projects. ... This is number one. Part...
Clinton Keith
clintonnkeith
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Feb 6, 2009
7:38 pm

Clint, I agree that convincing the folks in the executive suite is key. And those numbers are key also. I have found that when you consistently produce...
Landes Eric (CI/AFR2-...
dcma_eric
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Feb 10, 2009
2:14 pm

I'll add one more nugget: As soon as the price for a tool becomes too high then the process starts to support the tool rather than the tool supporting the ...
Brandon Carlson
bjc0907
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Feb 11, 2009
1:20 am

Great point Brandon. EVERY instance of Rational Clearxxxx that I have seen has warped internal thinking as you suggest. The tool is very expensive so we must...
Robin Dymond
rdymond1
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Feb 11, 2009
8:46 am

Thanks Robin, I'd like to clarify one additional thing. The cost that I refer to is the combination of acquisition cost *and* cost of change. Even if you have...
Brandon Carlson
bjc0907
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Feb 11, 2009
3:30 pm

"The single biggest factor in improving the performance of software teams is fixing bad management."Do others feel this is true? I certainly don't like bad...
Rob Park
rpark68
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Feb 8, 2009
3:28 pm

It's interesting that you list practices as objectives rather than outcomes. David http://www.agilemanagement.net/ ... teams is ... don't like ... aren't ... ...
David J Anderson
netherby_uk
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Feb 8, 2009
6:08 pm

Clint, Our group uses Microsofts Team Foundation Server (TFS) for our Lifecycle stuff. We have customized reports etc. for this. Off the shelf I don't know...
Landes Eric (CI/AFR2-...
dcma_eric
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Feb 6, 2009
2:31 pm

I noticed a clear difference between our Scrum teams and our Kanban ones. While the Scrum teams often accumulated unfinished work until the end of the sprint...
Mattias Skarin
i92matsk
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Feb 4, 2009
7:08 am

I'm conscious of Brian Marick's later comments about providing some specific anecdotal reply to the questions Tim raises. I've been busy traveling and haven't...
David J Anderson
netherby_uk
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Feb 7, 2009
12:34 am

... I am obviously not super well-read on Kanban, but I dare say this aspect could stand to be given more air time. Your post has been very helpful and...
Raoul Duke
theraoulduke
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Feb 7, 2009
12:45 am

Would be nice to hear real experience from someone experimenting a bit with this.. For example: trying Kanban with monthly demos.. After inserting a...
Mattias Skarin
i92matsk
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Mar 23, 2009
7:58 am

Our teams are on a kanban system but we still use iterations and an iteration planning meeting, iteration demo and retrospective. The iteration planning...
Janice Linden-Reed
JLinden
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Mar 24, 2009
11:33 pm

As the fat controller ( Scrum Master, Kanban Sensei whatever ) on the project, one of the things I struggled with was keeping track of the developer's...
chrisjmatts1968
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Mar 25, 2009
9:21 am

How much time do team members typically spend on estimating the time for a task? When you notice a number of missed dates, is there effort put into making...
Troy Tuttle
troy_tuttle
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Mar 26, 2009
1:55 pm

Troy ... Seconds rather than minutes. For each MMF, we have a white board session to identify the tasks. We start from the outputs and work back to the inputs,...
chrisjmatts1968
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Mar 27, 2009
11:05 am

... How long do these whiteboard sessions last? And is the whole team (devs, testers, etc.) included in these session or just a few people? ;ted...
Ted Young
tedyoung
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Mar 28, 2009
7:26 pm

About an hour. Everyone is involved Sent from my iPhone...
Chris
chrisjmatts1968
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Mar 28, 2009
9:46 pm

... Hmm.. this is a bit off the original thread.. We spend 30-40min per week. Each week 1-2 new projects/stories are introduced....
Mattias Skarin
i92matsk
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Mar 28, 2009
5:03 pm

Hi Tim, My 2 cents: I think Scrum is a great tool for teams/organizations that have certain characteristics, specifically because it "forces" people to change...
davenicolette
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Mar 31, 2009
11:41 am
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