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The Fifth Primary Practice of Kanban - Reduce the Kanban Tokens   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #4523 of 6065 |
The optimum (minimum) WIP limit Was Fifth Kanban Principle

Karl

I know its a bit rude for me to reply to my own post but I'd be interested in
your thoughts on a minimum WIP limit above 1. Although in theory we could get to
1, I suspect that in practice it is not possible or desirable and that there is
an optimal WIP limit above one.

It would be interesting to identify those factors that push that optimal above
one, one being fixed costs per resource. Others being.... ?

Chris


--- In kanbandev@yahoogroups.com, "chrismatts1968" <chrismatts1968@...> wrote:
>
> --- In kanbandev@yahoogroups.com, Karl Scotland <kjscotland@> wrote:
> > What if that team of 20 is so highly multi skilled that they were able to
> > swarm on a single MMF (using the term just to wind you up ;-) and get it
> > done immediately. Wouldn't that be a good thing?
> >
> >
> > > What happens when you are below the optimal number?
> >
> >
> > Is the optimal number now, the most optimal for the future? Can't we
> > improve?
>
> Ummmmm. I think there are a number of assumption you are making that need to
be considered.
>
> 1. The stated assumption that a team can swarm around a task without any loss
of performance. More on this later as you are ignoring the "fixed" costs here.
>
> 2. That if we draw a graph of average unit ( developer ) performance ( y axis
) against WIP limit ( x-axis ), that the graph is flat or downward sloping from
high at low WIP to low at high WIP. I suspect that the reality is that it is
humped. Low performance for low AND high WIP with an optimal performance at a
WIP limit just below ( or above ??? ) the number of developers.
>
> Even if we assume perfected swarming, the fixed transaction costs will result
in a degradation of throughput if the WIP limit is too low.
>
> I think an interesting question would be... What is the minimum WIP limit. OR
another way to look at it is.... What is the optimal batch size. ( The maths is
easier )
>
> Another question would be.... What is the optimal WIP limit and is it the same
as the minimum WIP limit?
>





Mon Jul 6, 2009 9:53 am

chrismatts1968
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Message #4523 of 6065 |
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... Ummmmm. I think there are a number of assumption you are making that need to be considered. 1. The stated assumption that a team can swarm around a task...
chrismatts1968
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Jul 3, 2009
3:50 pm

Karl I know its a bit rude for me to reply to my own post but I'd be interested in your thoughts on a minimum WIP limit above 1. Although in theory we could...
chrismatts1968
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Jul 6, 2009
9:53 am

Hello, chrismatts1968. On Monday, July 6, 2009, at 5:53:09 AM, ... Surely the biggest reason to have a WIP limit over 1 is so that stations do not go idle...
Ron Jeffries
ronaldejeffries
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Jul 6, 2009
11:11 am

On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 6:11 AM, Ron ... I think that's the core of it. i also think we end up pulling in a combination of kanban, flow, and theory of...
Derick Bailey
derickbailey...
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Jul 6, 2009
2:37 pm

... Derick Your example is spot on. The point I'm trying to get to is that even if we assume the team can swarm over a problem as Karl suggests, there are...
chrismatts1968
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Jul 7, 2009
1:12 pm

I think there is even more to it than flow mechanics. The cost of delay function under risk has so much uncertainty to it that it isn't reasonable to work on...
David J Anderson
netherby_uk
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Jul 7, 2009
4:31 pm

Hi, Ron, ... You're not missing something. In a deterministic process (i.e. no variability in process time), you'll find that in the long run W=T*r, where W is...
jornolabirkeland
jornolabirke...
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Jul 7, 2009
5:20 pm

Hi Chris 2009/7/6 chrismatts1968 <chrismatts1968@...> ... I'd agree. I'm not really suggesting its achievable to have a single kanban token. I am...
Karl Scotland
kjscotland
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Jul 8, 2009
11:14 pm

Karl Nice So the approach would be. Add the resource and then based on the emergent behaviour of the Kanban system, raise the limits if resources are starved....
chrismatts1968
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Jul 9, 2009
8:39 am

2009/7/9 chrismatts1968 <chrismatts1968@...> ... Did we get to agreement! So the approach would be. Add the resource and then based on the emergent ......
Karl Scotland
kjscotland
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Jul 9, 2009
9:29 pm

Karl and Chris, I really like Chris's reply to himself that begged the question again in order to bring specific clarity. Karl, what you said is what I was...
Jean Tabaka
jeantabaka
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Jul 10, 2009
1:21 am

So, relating this back to eliminating kanban (sorry, forgot to do that...) there needs to be 120 kanban in the original system, where the cars drive 30MPH....
Derick Bailey
derickbailey...
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Jul 2, 2009
7:08 pm
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