Hi Ray

Thanks for the information. Are you going to be at Mendota? I'm planning on
bring a couple of IC jewels with :)))

Cheers
Ted



-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Breyer <rtbsvrr69@...>
To: mstl@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, Nov 16, 2009 5:25 pm
Subject: Re: [mstl] Re: C&NW USRA gondolas




>>>Both the C&NW and the M&StL had USRA drop-bottom
>>>gondolas as did many other railroads.
>>>Some of the M&StL's USRA gondolas survived until
>>>1948 when the last of them were scrapped. The M&StL
>>>bought 125 used former C&NW USRA gondolas (through
>>>Hyman-Michaels, as I recall) in 1942. The last of
>>these used gons lasted until 1953.
>>>I have always wondered why the C&NW gons would
>>>last longer that the M&StL gons.
>>>An article in the Railway Mechanical Engineer
>>>magazine, September, 1937 on pages 412, 413 & 414 gives
>>>a thorough description of the C&NW's program of
>>>rebuilding these gons. Part of the rebuilding involved
>>>replacing the drop-bottom doors with a solid floor.
>>>For anyone detailing the Intermountain USRA gons
>>>numbered 27501 and above, they should not have drop-doors
>>in the bottom.
>>>Gene Green

>Thanks for sharing. Now a modeling question. How would
>you represent that solid floor on the model?
>I ask as I have a M&St.L. gon waiting its turn at
>assembly.
>Ted Richardson

Hi guys,

Not so fast Ted! Leave the floors alone!!!

Since I don't trust the press as far as I can throw it. I decided to check & see
if I had any original source material that corroborated the RME article Gene
quotes.

I don't.

I do have a bunch of original source material that contradicts it, however.

The C&NW's 1951 freight car diagram book lists four number series for these
types of gondolas:
114501-115499 (odd), ACF 1918
115501-116499 (odd), H&B 1918
The diagram book goes on to say that SOME of these cars were rebuilt into solid
bottom gons and renumbered into the 24501-26499 (odd) series.
Two other car series were also listed:
85001-85499 (odd), Pullman 1923 (USRA clones)
90601-92221 (odd), GACC 1923 (USRA clones).
Again, SOME of these cars were rebuilt into solid bottom gons, this time
renumbered to 129501-130615.

Checking the ORERs it looks like just about half of the USRA-type gons were
rebuilt (not all of them!), according to the 1945 ORER quantities for each
number series. By 1951 the car numbers had al plummeted, with only the clone
rebuilds having any sort of large numbers (224 cars).

Next, I checked the M&StL diagram books. The 1959 book still has the diagram
pages for the USRA cars (the book's scanned from Gene's collection). The
secondhand cars are listed as having "drop doors, 8-35 1/2 x 43 1/2". Checking
the 1951 ORER listing, the M&StL describes these cars as "gon, wood side, tight
ends, 8 drop doors, flat bottom, wood floor". Going back to the diagram book,
the builder is listed as ACF 1918, making these cars part of the C&NW's
114501-115499 series of cars, and never extensively rebuilt (if at all).

Finally, why did all of these cars fall off the roster in 1953? Simple: that was
the year that K brakes were banned from interchange. These cars (al least the
M&StL ones) were never upgraded to AB brakes.

So DON'T DO ANYTHING TO THE FLOORS!!!! That is, unless you can find a photo or
two that will make a liar out of me, the C&NW, and the M&StL. :-)

Regards,
Ray Breyer







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks Richard, I really like the architecture.
Clark Propst

--- In mstl@yahoogroups.com, Flyteleder@... wrote:
>
> I've added a new photo (of the Cass Clay creamery in Moorhead, MN) to the
Creameries photo file.
>
>
> Richard Wehr
> Ft. Apache, Arizona Territory
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vernwigfield <vwigfield@...>
> To: mstl@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tue, Nov 10, 2009 6:11 pm
> Subject: [mstl] Re: Depot Photo
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Rex called me a couple of weeks ago requesting some photos, Kilkenny being one
of them.   Have found two of the three he requested, still missing Kikenny.   
Vern Wigfield
>
>
>
> --- In mstl@yahoogroups.com, "Dennis Holmes" <deholmes@> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > I talked to Rex Beach last night and he is looking for one also.
>
> >
>
> > Dennis E
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >   ----- Original Message -----
>
> >   From: vernwigfield
>
> >   To: mstl@yahoogroups.com
>
> >   Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:31 AM
>
> >   Subject: [mstl] Depot Photo
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >   Does anyone on the web site have a photo of the depot at Kilkenny,,MN?
Thanks Vern Wigfield
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the mstl
group.

   File        : /MC layout/DSC00609.JPG
   Uploaded by : rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
   Description : LCL trailer that the Mason City Freighthouse

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mstl/files/MC%20layout/DSC00609.JPG

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/general.htmlfiles

Regards,

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>

Great stuff Gene! Plenty of modeling tidbits included.

I like how he called 545 an engine, as in one.

There are guys with collections that won't share them with the 'unwashed'.
Thanks for not being one of those "It's mine and you can't have it" types.

Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa

The last small remnant of original M&StL track leading into a scrap dealer
in SW Aberdeen has just been torn up and is being replaced with new heavy track.
Almost looks like a small yard being built there to serve the scrap dealer and
maybe the concrete plant just S. of it.  I wonder if BNSF or DME will operate
it?                                     C. Ford                         
Mellette, SD

I've added a new photo (of the Cass Clay creamery in Moorhead, MN) to the
Creameries photo file.


Richard Wehr
Ft. Apache, Arizona Territory


-----Original Message-----
From: vernwigfield <vwigfield@...>
To: mstl@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, Nov 10, 2009 6:11 pm
Subject: [mstl] Re: Depot Photo




































Rex called me a couple of weeks ago requesting some photos, Kilkenny being one
of them.   Have found two of the three he requested, still missing Kikenny.   
Vern Wigfield



--- In mstl@yahoogroups.com, "Dennis Holmes" <deholmes@...> wrote:

>

> I talked to Rex Beach last night and he is looking for one also.

>

> Dennis E

>

>

>

>   ----- Original Message -----

>   From: vernwigfield

>   To: mstl@yahoogroups.com

>   Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:31 AM

>   Subject: [mstl] Depot Photo

>

>

>

>   Does anyone on the web site have a photo of the depot at Kilkenny,,MN?
Thanks Vern Wigfield

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>




































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

John, here's a jpeg of the only 27001 series car I know of.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa
----- Original Message -----
From: "John" <golden1014@...>
To: <mstl@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 3:35 PM
Subject: [mstl] Re: C&NW USRA gondolas


> Brothers,
>
> Are there suitable decals for making an HO-scale model?
>
> Thanks!
> John
>
> John Golden
> Bloomington, IN
>
>
>
> --- In mstl@yahoogroups.com, ICRR9@... wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi Gene
>>
>> Thanks for sharing. Now a modeling question. How would you represent that
>> solid floor on the model?
>>
>> I ask as I have a M&St.L. gon waiting its turn at assembly.
>>
>> Regards
>> Ted Richardson
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Gene <bierglaeser@...>
>> To: mstl@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Sun, Nov 15, 2009 9:40 am
>> Subject: [mstl] C&NW USRA gondolas
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Both the C&NW and the M&StL had USRA drop-bottom gondolas as did many
>> other railroads.
>>
>> Some of the M&StL's USRA gondolas survived until 1948 when the last of
>> them were scrapped. The M&StL bought 125 used former C&NW USRA gondolas
>> (through Hyman-Michaels, as I recall) in 1942. The last of these used
>> gons lasted until 1953.
>>
>> I have always wondered why the C&NW gons would last longer that the M&StL
>> gons. Did the M&StL not take care of their assests? Well, I may have
>> found the answer while thumbing through old magazines.
>>
>> An article in the Railway Mechanical Engineer magazine, September, 1937
>> on pages 412, 413 & 414 gives a thorough description of the C&NW's
>> program of rebuilding these gons. Part of the rebuilding involved
>> replacing the drop-bottom doors with a solid floor.
>>
>> For anyone detailing the Intermountain USRA gons numbered 27501 and
>> above, they should not have drop-doors in the bottom.
>>
>> Gene Green
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> =======================================
> M&StL Community email addresses:
>  Post message: mstl@yahoogroups.com
>  Subscribe:    mstl-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  Unsubscribe:  mstl-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> =========================================
> *Shortcut URL to this page:
>  http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/mstl
>
> __HH__.__ __,----_ ---+ _I_
> |_M&StL_|~|__List_||__|____|<
> oo-  -oo   ooo ooo  oOOOO=o\\Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Here is the other item from my eBay purchase that some might find of interest. 
The whole thing was written as one huge paragraph filling one whole page and
nearly a quarter of a second page so that's how I am presenting it here.

"Albert Lea, Minn. May 6, 1955

"A.H. Reno
"306 May
"Marshalltown Iowa, states:

"I am employed by the M.&St.L. Ry. Co., as a conductor and on May 3, 1955 I was
working as such on train No. 95 out of Marshalltown enroute to Albert  Lea.   It
was on that date at about 9:10 P.M., that our train was involved in a crossing
accident on a grade crossing near mile post 209 or about four miles north of
Steamboat Rock.   The directions used in this statement are geographical.  On
that trip we had engine 545 with 60 cars and the caboose.  Our train was just
coming up Steamboat Rock hill so we were moving at the time at a speed of
approximately 30 miles per hour.  I was seated on the left side of the caboose
looking out and ahead.  I first saw this approaching automobile's headlights
when the caboose was around 25 to 30 car-lengths from the crossing and at the
time I first saw the headlights they came from behind some buildings or a grove
located back around 700 to 800 feet from the crossing.  Our train actually is
moving over this crossing from the southeast towards the northwest and the auto
was moving from the south in a northerly direction.  When I saw the auto I would
estimate that it was traveling at a speed of around 45 to 55 miles per hour and
it appeared to me that the driver had not seen our train and was making no
attempt to stop or slow down.  I had my flash light right there beside me so I
grabbed it, turned it on and held it out through the open window of the caboose
swinging it in a stop sign hoping that I could attract the driver's attention. 
I know that the engine of our train was well over the crossing by then and would
have been out of the driver's view.  I kept waving the flashlight and it did not
appear to me that the auto was slowing down at any time.  I realized the auto
was going to strike the train so I reached for and, pulled the emergency cord at
about the same instant that the auto struck the train.  The caboose was then
about 15 car lengths from the crossing, which was later confirmed when we
located the mark on the side of NP 25502 which was the 15th car ahead of the
caboose.  The brakes went into emergency and we stopped so that the caboose was
just over the bridge west of the road or around 350 to 400 feet over the
crossing.  I went right book and found that the automobile was a 1949 Chrysler
sedan, it was owned and driven by Mr. Harold Kramer Rt 1 Ackley Iowa who was
accompanied by his wife.  Mr. Kramer had a small out on his left hand but his
wife appeared to have sustained a broken ankle, a bruise on her head and was in
pain.  An ambulance and doctor was called.  A doctor did not come with the
ambulance, but they were taken to the hospital at Eldora.  The auto had ran
along side of the train for about 100 feet before it turned off and went through
a wooden fence, breaking the fence down and let the stock out the yard.  The
auto was badly damaged on the right front and right side, but apparently had not
been upset or rolled, it was standing upright in the feed lot.  A thunderstorm
had been developing with severe lightning.  It had not yet started rain when the
accident happened, but in just a minute or so after we stopped it started to
rain very hard, so if there had been any skid marks on the gravel crossing they
would not have been visible.  When the deputy sheriff arrived we backed the
train over the crossing trying to locate the oar of our train which was struck,
we did not find it then, but when we stopped at Ackley Mr. Crowthers, the rear
brakeman and I found the door handle bent and marks on the left side of NP 25502
indicating that was the car.  This was the 15th car ahead of the caboose.  At
the time of the accident there were no other automobiles or vehicles at or near
the crossing.  This is a gravel crossing, it is protected by two standard
sawbuck warning signs, and the crossing is level with no obstructions to the
view.  It was dark at the time, the weather was cloudy with a west wind of about
10 mph.  Right after the accident it started to rain very hard. The markers on
our caboose were lighted and burning at the time.  After I started talking with
Mr. Kramer who had been driving the auto, he told me that he had been driving at
a speed of about 45 miles per hour and just had not seen the train."


Gene Green
Out in the west Texas town of El Paso

John, the cars had no special lettering so almost any decal set would work.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa
----- Original Message -----
From: "John" <golden1014@...>
To: <mstl@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 3:35 PM
Subject: [mstl] Re: C&NW USRA gondolas


> Brothers,
>
> Are there suitable decals for making an HO-scale model?
>
> Thanks!
> John
>
> John Golden
> Bloomington, IN
>
>
>
> --- In mstl@yahoogroups.com, ICRR9@... wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi Gene
>>
>> Thanks for sharing. Now a modeling question. How would you represent that
>> solid floor on the model?
>>
>> I ask as I have a M&St.L. gon waiting its turn at assembly.
>>
>> Regards
>> Ted Richardson
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Gene <bierglaeser@...>
>> To: mstl@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Sun, Nov 15, 2009 9:40 am
>> Subject: [mstl] C&NW USRA gondolas
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Both the C&NW and the M&StL had USRA drop-bottom gondolas as did many
>> other railroads.
>>
>> Some of the M&StL's USRA gondolas survived until 1948 when the last of
>> them were scrapped. The M&StL bought 125 used former C&NW USRA gondolas
>> (through Hyman-Michaels, as I recall) in 1942. The last of these used
>> gons lasted until 1953.
>>
>> I have always wondered why the C&NW gons would last longer that the M&StL
>> gons. Did the M&StL not take care of their assests? Well, I may have
>> found the answer while thumbing through old magazines.
>>
>> An article in the Railway Mechanical Engineer magazine, September, 1937
>> on pages 412, 413 & 414 gives a thorough description of the C&NW's
>> program of rebuilding these gons. Part of the rebuilding involved
>> replacing the drop-bottom doors with a solid floor.
>>
>> For anyone detailing the Intermountain USRA gons numbered 27501 and
>> above, they should not have drop-doors in the bottom.
>>
>> Gene Green
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> =======================================
> M&StL Community email addresses:
>  Post message: mstl@yahoogroups.com
>  Subscribe:    mstl-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  Unsubscribe:  mstl-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> =========================================
> *Shortcut URL to this page:
>  http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/mstl
>
> __HH__.__ __,----_ ---+ _I_
> |_M&StL_|~|__List_||__|____|<
> oo-  -oo   ooo ooo  oOOOO=o\\Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

PeoriaRailsI'm forwarding this message from the Peoria Rails list.

Dennis E

PeoriaRails
Messages In This Digest (2 Messages)


View All Topics | Create New Topic Messages
   1.

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


   Back to top (1)
   2. More UP/CNW/M&SL Track Pulled
   Posted by: "sanders6632" sanders6632@...   sanders6632
   Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:55 pm (PST)


   I was on Stone School Road today (west of Trivoli) and saw the track pulled
and the rail stacked along the bed of the former M&SL. I guess they are removing
it bit by bit as they fight through the brush and weeds. Ed Sanders


   Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
   Messages in this topic (1) Recent Activity
   a..  4 New Members
   b..  3 New Photos
   c..  1 New Files
Visit Your Group
Sell Online
Start selling with

our award-winning

e-commerce tools.

Yahoo! Groups
Dog Group

Connect and share with

dog owners like you

Group Charity
City Year

Young people who

change the world

Need to Reply?
Click one of the "Reply" links to respond to a specific message in the Daily
Digest.
Create New Topic | Visit Your Group on the Web
Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | Calendar
MARKETPLACE
Parenting Zone: Your community resource for family and home

Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Individual | Switch format to
Traditional
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This from a lot of papers I bought on eBay:

"Marshalltown Iowa
"March 1, 1959

"Mr. D. J. Owens
"rainmaster
"Marshalltown, Ia.

	 "With reference to Brakeman Rea missing train #96 at Albert Lea, Minn. February
28, 1959 that was called for 3:45AM.

	 "I arrived at Albert Lea on train #19 at 6:45PM and tied up, Brakeman Rea
being, my rear Brakeman was tied up at the same. time.  I went to bed around 7PM
and at 10:45PM Brakeman Rea was not at his room when I got up, I went. back to
bed and was called at 1:45PM for 3:45AM by the call boy, the call boy could not
get brakeman Rea out of his bed and the call boy asked me to see if I could get
him up, I tried to get him out of bed but he would not get up. As I was leaving
to get something to eat I told him that he was called and had better get up, and
he just stayed in bed.

	 "I arrived at the depot around 2:45AM and Rea was not around and when it came
time to leave I just left without him, and have not seen him since.

"A. H. Reno
"Condr. Marshalltown"

Gene Green
Out in the west Texas town of El Paso

>>>Both the C&NW and the M&StL had USRA drop-bottom
>>>gondolas as did many other railroads.
>>>Some of the M&StL's USRA gondolas survived until
>>>1948 when the last of them were scrapped. The M&StL
>>>bought 125 used former C&NW USRA gondolas (through
>>>Hyman-Michaels, as I recall) in 1942. The last of
>>these used gons lasted until 1953.
>>>I have always wondered why the C&NW gons would
>>>last longer that the M&StL gons.
>>>An article in the Railway Mechanical Engineer
>>>magazine, September, 1937 on pages 412, 413 & 414 gives
>>>a thorough description of the C&NW's program of
>>>rebuilding these gons. Part of the rebuilding involved
>>>replacing the drop-bottom doors with a solid floor.
>>>For anyone detailing the Intermountain USRA gons
>>>numbered 27501 and above, they should not have drop-doors
>>in the bottom.
>>>Gene Green

>Thanks for sharing. Now a modeling question. How would
>you represent that solid floor on the model?
>I ask as I have a M&St.L. gon waiting its turn at
>assembly.
>Ted Richardson



Hi guys,

Not so fast Ted! Leave the floors alone!!!

Since I don't trust the press as far as I can throw it. I decided to check & see
if I had any original source material that corroborated the RME article Gene
quotes.

I don't.

I do have a bunch of original source material that contradicts it, however.

The C&NW's 1951 freight car diagram book lists four number series for these
types of gondolas:
114501-115499 (odd), ACF 1918
115501-116499 (odd), H&B 1918
The diagram book goes on to say that SOME of these cars were rebuilt into solid
bottom gons and renumbered into the 24501-26499 (odd) series.
Two other car series were also listed:
85001-85499 (odd), Pullman 1923 (USRA clones)
90601-92221 (odd), GACC 1923 (USRA clones).
Again, SOME of these cars were rebuilt into solid bottom gons, this time
renumbered to 129501-130615.

Checking the ORERs it looks like just about half of the USRA-type gons were
rebuilt (not all of them!), according to the 1945 ORER quantities for each
number series. By 1951 the car numbers had al plummeted, with only the clone
rebuilds having any sort of large numbers (224 cars).

Next, I checked the M&StL diagram books. The 1959 book still has the diagram
pages for the USRA cars (the book's scanned from Gene's collection). The
secondhand cars are listed as having "drop doors, 8-35 1/2 x 43 1/2". Checking
the 1951 ORER listing, the M&StL describes these cars as "gon, wood side, tight
ends, 8 drop doors, flat bottom, wood floor". Going back to the diagram book,
the builder is listed as ACF 1918, making these cars part of the C&NW's
114501-115499 series of cars, and never extensively rebuilt (if at all).

Finally, why did all of these cars fall off the roster in 1953? Simple: that was
the year that K brakes were banned from interchange. These cars (al least the
M&StL ones) were never upgraded to AB brakes.

So DON'T DO ANYTHING TO THE FLOORS!!!! That is, unless you can find a photo or
two that will make a liar out of me, the C&NW, and the M&StL.  :-)

Regards,
Ray Breyer

Brothers,

Are there suitable decals for making an HO-scale model?

Thanks!
John

John Golden
Bloomington, IN



--- In mstl@yahoogroups.com, ICRR9@... wrote:
>
>
> Hi Gene
>
> Thanks for sharing. Now a modeling question. How would you represent that
solid floor on the model?
>
> I ask as I have a M&St.L. gon waiting its turn at assembly.
>
> Regards
> Ted Richardson
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gene <bierglaeser@...>
> To: mstl@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sun, Nov 15, 2009 9:40 am
> Subject: [mstl] C&NW USRA gondolas
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Both the C&NW and the M&StL had USRA drop-bottom gondolas as did many other
railroads.
>
> Some of the M&StL's USRA gondolas survived until 1948 when the last of them
were scrapped. The M&StL bought 125 used former C&NW USRA gondolas (through
Hyman-Michaels, as I recall) in 1942. The last of these used gons lasted until
1953.
>
> I have always wondered why the C&NW gons would last longer that the M&StL
gons. Did the M&StL not take care of their assests? Well, I may have found the
answer while thumbing through old magazines.
>
> An article in the Railway Mechanical Engineer magazine, September, 1937 on
pages 412, 413 & 414 gives a thorough description of the C&NW's program of
rebuilding these gons. Part of the rebuilding involved replacing the drop-bottom
doors with a solid floor.
>
> For anyone detailing the Intermountain USRA gons numbered 27501 and above,
they should not have drop-doors in the bottom.
>
> Gene Green
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

--- In mstl@yahoogroups.com, "Gene" <bierglaeser@...> wrote:
>
> Both the C&NW and the M&StL had USRA drop-bottom gondolas as did many other
railroads.
>
> Some of the M&StL's USRA gondolas survived until 1948 when the last of them
were scrapped. The M&StL bought 125 used former C&NW USRA gondolas (through
Hyman-Michaels, as I recall) in 1942.  The last of these used gons lasted until
1953.
>
> I have always wondered why the C&NW gons would last longer that the M&StL
gons.  Did the M&StL not take care of their assests?  Well, I may have found the
answer while thumbing through old magazines.
>
> An article in the Railway  Mechanical  Engineer magazine, September, 1937 on
pages 412, 413 & 414 gives a thorough description of the C&NW's program of
rebuilding these gons.  Part of the rebuilding involved replacing the
drop-bottom doors with a solid floor.
>
> For anyone detailing the Intermountain USRA gons numbered 27501 and above,
they should not have drop-doors in the bottom.
>
> Gene Green

In that case I have two Intermountain gon kits with numbers that I can't use
because they would have been gone before the era I'm modeling.
Cat # 41611-11 car #27433
Cat # 41611-12 car #27495
These are black cars, kits are as new.
I'll let the pair go for $35 - price includes postage in the continental U.S.
Contact me ->OFF LIST<- !!!!

Ken Olson
Western Wisconsin

My car is 27381 so I'll just leave it on the display shelf and take it off
my active (usable) car list.

It could be put back on active duty if someone looks up the CNW AFE to see
what they did to replace the original floor.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa

Gons numbered 27501 and up are the former C&NW gons with solid floors. 
Remember, odd numbers only.

M&StL gons were black with white stencilling (as were all hoppers except half of
the last order from ACF.  The 32 from the C&O were some kind of red but no
specifics have been found so far.)

No photographic confirmation has turned up to substantiate the apocryphal rumors
of a green gon with yellow lettering.

Gene Green

--- In mstl@yahoogroups.com, ICRR9@... wrote:
>
>
> Hi Doug, Gene
>
> Would advise me of those numbers, and color? Thanks!
>
> Ted
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Douglas Harding <dharding@...>
> To: mstl@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sun, Nov 15, 2009 11:52 am
> Subject: RE: [mstl] C&NW USRA gondolas
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Gene, great information. Like Ted, I have some IM M&StL gons, but the 12#s
when they were first offered. Now need to check the #'s
> to see if any should have a solid floor.
>
>
> Doug Harding
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

How would I do it?  With planks of the same width as the Intermountain floor
laid lengthwise.  I would weather heavily and distress the planks some to
indicate getting bashed by a clam-shell bucket.
Gene Green

--- In mstl@yahoogroups.com, ICRR9@... wrote:
>
>
> Hi Gene
>
> Thanks for sharing. Now a modeling question. How would you represent that
solid floor on the model?
>
> I ask as I have a M&St.L. gon waiting its turn at assembly.
>
> Regards
> Ted Richardson
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gene <bierglaeser@...>
> To: mstl@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sun, Nov 15, 2009 9:40 am
> Subject: [mstl] C&NW USRA gondolas
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Both the C&NW and the M&StL had USRA drop-bottom gondolas as did many other
railroads.
>
> Some of the M&StL's USRA gondolas survived until 1948 when the last of them
were scrapped. The M&StL bought 125 used former C&NW USRA gondolas (through
Hyman-Michaels, as I recall) in 1942. The last of these used gons lasted until
1953.
>
> I have always wondered why the C&NW gons would last longer that the M&StL
gons. Did the M&StL not take care of their assests? Well, I may have found the
answer while thumbing through old magazines.
>
> An article in the Railway Mechanical Engineer magazine, September, 1937 on
pages 412, 413 & 414 gives a thorough description of the C&NW's program of
rebuilding these gons. Part of the rebuilding involved replacing the drop-bottom
doors with a solid floor.
>
> For anyone detailing the Intermountain USRA gons numbered 27501 and above,
they should not have drop-doors in the bottom.
>
> Gene Green
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hi Doug, Gene

Would advise me of those numbers, and color? Thanks!

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Harding <dharding@...>
To: mstl@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, Nov 15, 2009 11:52 am
Subject: RE: [mstl] C&NW USRA gondolas






Gene, great information. Like Ted, I have some IM M&StL gons, but the 12#s when
they were first offered. Now need to check the #'s
to see if any should have a solid floor.


Doug Harding

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gene, great information. Like Ted, I have some IM M&StL gons, but the 12#s when
they were first offered. Now need to check the #'s
to see if any should have a solid floor.


Doug Harding




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Gene

Thanks for sharing. Now a modeling question. How would you represent that solid
floor on the model?

I ask as I have a M&St.L. gon waiting its turn at assembly.

Regards
Ted Richardson


-----Original Message-----
From: Gene <bierglaeser@...>
To: mstl@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, Nov 15, 2009 9:40 am
Subject: [mstl] C&NW USRA gondolas






Both the C&NW and the M&StL had USRA drop-bottom gondolas as did many other
railroads.

Some of the M&StL's USRA gondolas survived until 1948 when the last of them were
scrapped. The M&StL bought 125 used former C&NW USRA gondolas (through
Hyman-Michaels, as I recall) in 1942. The last of these used gons lasted until
1953.

I have always wondered why the C&NW gons would last longer that the M&StL gons.
Did the M&StL not take care of their assests? Well, I may have found the answer
while thumbing through old magazines.

An article in the Railway Mechanical Engineer magazine, September, 1937 on pages
412, 413 & 414 gives a thorough description of the C&NW's program of rebuilding
these gons. Part of the rebuilding involved replacing the drop-bottom doors with
a solid floor.

For anyone detailing the Intermountain USRA gons numbered 27501 and above, they
should not have drop-doors in the bottom.

Gene Green







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Both the C&NW and the M&StL had USRA drop-bottom gondolas as did many other
railroads.

Some of the M&StL's USRA gondolas survived until 1948 when the last of them were
scrapped. The M&StL bought 125 used former C&NW USRA gondolas (through
Hyman-Michaels, as I recall) in 1942.  The last of these used gons lasted until
1953.

I have always wondered why the C&NW gons would last longer that the M&StL gons. 
Did the M&StL not take care of their assests?  Well, I may have found the answer
while thumbing through old magazines.

An article in the Railway  Mechanical  Engineer magazine, September, 1937 on
pages 412, 413 & 414 gives a thorough description of the C&NW's program of
rebuilding these gons.  Part of the rebuilding involved replacing the
drop-bottom doors with a solid floor.

For anyone detailing the Intermountain USRA gons numbered 27501 and above, they
should not have drop-doors in the bottom.

Gene Green

Thanks
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Gene
   To: mstl@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 9:19 AM
   Subject: [mstl] Re: Leased power



   Unfortunately there are at least two reasons why the AFEs won't answer your
question, intriguing as it is.
   First, the AFEs only go into 1956.
   Second, leasing a locomotive would not change the value of investment so no
AFE would have been generated.
   Gene Green

   --- In mstl@yahoogroups.com, "fddms" <cgw101c@...> wrote:
   >
   > Group
   >
   > This may be a question more for Mr. Green.
   > In your sorting through the M&StL AFE ect, is there any mention of one of
the 1000 hp Alco diesels being leased to the Duluth and Northeastern Railroad in
Cloquet, MN? I found a reference to this in a 1959 "MODEL TRAINS" artical. It
stated that this took place in October 1958. There is no time duration that it
was on the DNE.
   > I think this would be a RS-1. I am interested in the number and what paint
scheme it was in at the time.
   > If it is noted I would like to know the route to and from (the possibilities
are MStL/GN/DNE, MStL/NP/DNE or MStL/Milw/DNE. All would be interchanged in the
Twin Cities and Cloquet, MN)
   >
   > Thanks for your help.
   >
   > Frank Grimm
   > Leland, IL
   > Range Research
   >





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you Doug.

Richard Wehr
Ft. Apache, Arizona Territory

-----Original Message-----
From: ICRR9@...
To: mstl@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, Nov 12, 2009 1:33 pm
Subject: Re: [mstl] Salute!






































Thanks! Semper Fi



Ted



-----Original Message-----

From: Douglas Harding <dharding@...>

To: mstl@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:00 pm

Subject: RE: [mstl] Salute!



A bit off topic, but here is the pray I gave at the service this morning in
Sibley.



Let Us Pray:



Gracious and loving God, our hearts are heavy on this day. Sadden with the
tragic and senseless loss of life at Fort Hood, Texas,

we ask that you continue to be with the families of the victims and all who
responded and provided care. May they feel your

presence and our prayers. May they know comfort and healing.



On this day we come to remember and honor all who wore our country's uniform,
willing to give their life that peace and justice

might prevail. We remember those who died in battle, those who returned and died
at home. We honor those who wore the uniform and

live today. And we salute those who wear the uniform and continue to serve. Lord
it matters not where they served or their

assigned duty. May you be with them.



We ask that you would grant relief to those who continue to experience emotional
or physical agony from their days of combat.

Instill in us a sense of responsibility for their welfare. And comfort those who
mourn for loved ones lost while performing their

duty to our country.



Turn the hearts and minds of our leaders and our enemies to the work of justice
and a harvest of peace.



Let the peace you left us, the peace you gave us, be the peace that sustains,
the peace that saves us.



Amen



Doug Harding



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks! Semper Fi

Ted


-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Harding <dharding@...>
To: mstl@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, Nov 11, 2009 10:00 pm
Subject: RE: [mstl] Salute!






A bit off topic, but here is the pray I gave at the service this morning in
Sibley.

Let Us Pray:

Gracious and loving God, our hearts are heavy on this day. Sadden with the
tragic and senseless loss of life at Fort Hood, Texas,
we ask that you continue to be with the families of the victims and all who
responded and provided care. May they feel your
presence and our prayers. May they know comfort and healing.

On this day we come to remember and honor all who wore our country's uniform,
willing to give their life that peace and justice
might prevail. We remember those who died in battle, those who returned and died
at home. We honor those who wore the uniform and
live today. And we salute those who wear the uniform and continue to serve. Lord
it matters not where they served or their
assigned duty. May you be with them.

We ask that you would grant relief to those who continue to experience emotional
or physical agony from their days of combat.
Instill in us a sense of responsibility for their welfare. And comfort those who
mourn for loved ones lost while performing their
duty to our country.

Turn the hearts and minds of our leaders and our enemies to the work of justice
and a harvest of peace.

Let the peace you left us, the peace you gave us, be the peace that sustains,
the peace that saves us.

Amen

Doug Harding







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Unfortunately there are at least two reasons why the AFEs won't answer your
question, intriguing as it is.
First, the AFEs only go into 1956.
Second, leasing a locomotive would not change the value of investment so no AFE
would have been generated.
Gene Green

--- In mstl@yahoogroups.com, "fddms" <cgw101c@...> wrote:
>
> Group
>
> This may be a question more for Mr. Green.
> In your sorting through the M&StL AFE ect, is there any mention of one of the
1000 hp Alco diesels being leased to the Duluth and Northeastern Railroad in
Cloquet, MN? I found a reference to this in a 1959 "MODEL TRAINS" artical. It
stated that this took place in October 1958. There is no time duration that it
was on the DNE.
> I think this would be a RS-1. I am interested in the number and what paint
scheme it was in at the time.
> If it is noted I would like to know the route to and from (the possibilities
are MStL/GN/DNE, MStL/NP/DNE or MStL/Milw/DNE. All would be interchanged in the
Twin Cities and Cloquet, MN)
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Frank Grimm
> Leland, IL
> Range Research
>

A bit off topic, but here is the pray I gave at the service this morning in
Sibley.

Let Us Pray:

Gracious and loving God, our hearts are heavy on this day. Sadden with the
tragic and senseless loss of life at Fort Hood, Texas,
we ask that you continue to be with the families of the victims and all who
responded and provided care. May they feel your
presence and our prayers. May they know comfort and healing.

On this day we come to remember and honor all who wore our country's uniform,
willing to give their life that peace and justice
might prevail. We remember those who died in battle, those who returned and died
at home. We honor those who wore the uniform and
live today. And we salute those who wear the uniform and continue to serve. Lord
it matters not where they served or their
assigned duty. May you be with them.

We ask that you would grant relief to those who continue to experience emotional
or physical agony from their days of combat.
Instill in us a sense of responsibility for their welfare. And comfort those who
mourn for loved ones lost while performing their
duty to our country.

Turn the hearts and minds of our leaders and our enemies to the work of justice
and a harvest of peace.

Let the peace you left us, the peace you gave us, be the peace that sustains,
the peace that saves us.

Amen



Doug Harding

Here, here. We owe all the vets an enduring debt of gratitude. Louis


-----Original Message-----
From: Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
To: mstl@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, Nov 11, 2009 6:34 pm
Subject: [mstl] Salute!






I salute all us vets!
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I salute all us vets!
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Here is some more shop talk rumors from past issues of the Switch Lamp.

Chan Cooke March 1957:

More Grapevine:  GE-31 is getting seats put in baggage room, similar to the
RDC's, and a vestibule is being cut into the rear of the car.  Looks as though
the M&StL is about through with passenger business.  As I understand it the
three stainless steel coaches are going to the be traded in to the C&NW for
three RDC-1's.  GE 25 that was badly damaged at Gowrie, Iowa, is being worked
into a weed sprayer.  Engine is being moved back several feet to make room up
front for the sprayer operator.  Theis engine was badly damaged.

A peculiar switch is the closing of the M&StL depot at Rippey, Iowa, during the
day and staying open during the night.  This move was instigated by the night
time schedules.

From the Switch Lamp Dec 1956 by Basil Koob:

Tradgedy contines to haunt the M&StL crossing of highway 175 about one mile
south of Gowrie, Iowa.  In the last 86 days there have been three fatal
accidents involving the north south passenger train running between Des oines &
Minneapolis.  In all three accidents the motor vehicles involved have been
completely demolished with extensive damage being done to the rail equipment as
well, on the first and third accidents the rail equipment has been derailed,
although the rail passengers have been only slightly shaken up.  The last
accident involved a semi-trailer stock truck and a road unit diesel, R.P.O, and
baggage plus the unsual passenger coach.  The regular Diesel Electric being
still out of service from the initial accident.  the highway commission is
considering installing flashing warning signals for this crossing as a slight
hill limits visibility from the west.  The highway commission will pay 90% of
the expense involved in this plan.

Dennis E.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group

This may be a question more for Mr. Green.
In your sorting through the M&StL AFE ect, is there any mention of one of the
1000 hp Alco diesels being leased to the Duluth and Northeastern Railroad in
Cloquet, MN? I found a reference to this in a 1959 "MODEL TRAINS" artical. It
stated that this took place in October 1958. There is no time duration that it
was on the DNE.
I think this would be a RS-1. I am interested in the number and what paint
scheme it was in at the time.
If it is noted I would like to know the route to and from (the possibilities are
MStL/GN/DNE, MStL/NP/DNE or MStL/Milw/DNE. All would be interchanged in the Twin
Cities and Cloquet, MN)

Thanks for your help.

Frank Grimm
Leland, IL
Range Research