My photo set from the meet:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/15530177@N05/sets/72157622857809510/ (i'll add the
meet and my trip to Manassas National Battlefield Park on the blog later in the
week)


--- In northeastroads@yahoogroups.com, Froggie <froggie@...> wrote:
>
> An overall decent weather day yesterday for a gathering, and plenty of
> construction going on in the area.  Thus was the backdrop for the
> D.C./Woodrow Wilson Bridge meet.
>
> 14 of us gathered at a local Chili's in Huntington.  The group included
> DC/Baltimore area regulars (Pete Jenoir, Brian Polidoro, Mike Kotler,
> Oscar Voss, and myself), hobbyists from further south (Scott Kozel,
> Adam Prince, Bob Malme), Brian Powell and two of his friends
> representing West Virginia, Doug Kerr and Steve Alpert came down from
> up north, and even a Michigan visitor in the name of Brian Reynolds.
>
> After lunch, we all crowded into three vehicles (in a town like D.C.,
> its best to use as few vehicles as possible for gatherings like this),
> and headed to our first stop:  the Woodrow Wilson Bridge.  A 2 mile
> hike from the Jones Point Park parking area out to the middle of the
> bridge (via the bike/ped path on the bridge) gave an opportunity to
> view some of the smaller details of both the bridge design, the
> inclusion of a bike/ped path on the bridge and the Washington St bridge
> deck, and a view north towards D.C. proper from the two observation
> decks along the bridge...on a normal day, both the Washington Monument
> and the Capitol building can be easily seen from the bridge.
>
> Next up was a driving tour, heading west on the Beltway towards
> Springfield, noting construction of the future HOV ramp connections at
> the Springfield Interchange (the final, "Phase 8", part of the overall
> interchange project).  After some circling around Springfield proper
> (plus a short detour), we continued south and west to view construction
> of the last phase of the Fairfax County Parkway through the Engineering
> Proving Grounds at Ft. Belvoir, where grading and the bridgework at
> Rolling Rd are both well underway.
>
> Afterwards was a drive back up to the Springfield Interchange and onto
> the Beltway again, this time to see some of the construction associated
> with the Beltway HO/T lane project.  This project is, in a nutshell,
> rebuilding the Beltway from south of Braddock Rd (SR 620) to roughly
> Georgetown Pike (VA 193)...both rebuilding interchanges along the
> corridor and adding 2 HO/T lanes in each direction in the median.  This
> part of the tour also included a stop at the Washington & Old Dominion
> Trail to view some of the construction at the I-66/I-495 interchange
> from outside the car.
>
> Back in the car and east on I-66, a drive across the Key Bridge and
> along the Whitehurst Freeway, our next stop was Foggy Bottom, and the
> traffic circle at Virginia & New Hampshire Aves NW.  This location is
> in front of the Watergate Hotel and directly on top of I-66.  From
> this, we view what is likely the oldest freeway sign within the
> District, just south of the circle on WB I-66 at the exit to E Street
> and what would have been the I-695 West Loop.
>
> A short drive past some of the monuments/memorials, along the SW/SE
> Freeway, and past the Marine Barracks brought us to our final
> location...Barney Circle.  This circle long represented the north end
> of what was constructed of I-295...a situation that has changed over
> the past few months with AASHTO/FHWA approval of routing changes to
> both I-295 and hidden I-695 as part of the soon-to-begin 11th Street
> Bridges project.  In addition, the ramps connecting the 11th Street
> Bridge to Barney Circle were recently demolished.  Another feature just
> south of the circle is another very old overhead guide sign, still
> holding an I-295 shield, for what would have been the southbound
> connection from the East Leg to the 11th Street Bridge.
>
> After Barney Circle, we all returned to the starting point to collect
> our cars and give the official farewell, though that was not it for
> everyone as several of us got together for dinner afterwards.
>
> All in all, a good meet.
>
> Froggie
>

From Mahwah to Rahway

An overall decent weather day yesterday for a gathering, and plenty of
construction going on in the area.  Thus was the backdrop for the
D.C./Woodrow Wilson Bridge meet.

14 of us gathered at a local Chili's in Huntington.  The group included
DC/Baltimore area regulars (Pete Jenoir, Brian Polidoro, Mike Kotler,
Oscar Voss, and myself), hobbyists from further south (Scott Kozel,
Adam Prince, Bob Malme), Brian Powell and two of his friends
representing West Virginia, Doug Kerr and Steve Alpert came down from
up north, and even a Michigan visitor in the name of Brian Reynolds.

After lunch, we all crowded into three vehicles (in a town like D.C.,
its best to use as few vehicles as possible for gatherings like this),
and headed to our first stop:  the Woodrow Wilson Bridge.  A 2 mile
hike from the Jones Point Park parking area out to the middle of the
bridge (via the bike/ped path on the bridge) gave an opportunity to
view some of the smaller details of both the bridge design, the
inclusion of a bike/ped path on the bridge and the Washington St bridge
deck, and a view north towards D.C. proper from the two observation
decks along the bridge...on a normal day, both the Washington Monument
and the Capitol building can be easily seen from the bridge.

Next up was a driving tour, heading west on the Beltway towards
Springfield, noting construction of the future HOV ramp connections at
the Springfield Interchange (the final, "Phase 8", part of the overall
interchange project).  After some circling around Springfield proper
(plus a short detour), we continued south and west to view construction
of the last phase of the Fairfax County Parkway through the Engineering
Proving Grounds at Ft. Belvoir, where grading and the bridgework at
Rolling Rd are both well underway.

Afterwards was a drive back up to the Springfield Interchange and onto
the Beltway again, this time to see some of the construction associated
with the Beltway HO/T lane project.  This project is, in a nutshell,
rebuilding the Beltway from south of Braddock Rd (SR 620) to roughly
Georgetown Pike (VA 193)...both rebuilding interchanges along the
corridor and adding 2 HO/T lanes in each direction in the median.  This
part of the tour also included a stop at the Washington & Old Dominion
Trail to view some of the construction at the I-66/I-495 interchange
from outside the car.

Back in the car and east on I-66, a drive across the Key Bridge and
along the Whitehurst Freeway, our next stop was Foggy Bottom, and the
traffic circle at Virginia & New Hampshire Aves NW.  This location is
in front of the Watergate Hotel and directly on top of I-66.  From
this, we view what is likely the oldest freeway sign within the
District, just south of the circle on WB I-66 at the exit to E Street
and what would have been the I-695 West Loop.

A short drive past some of the monuments/memorials, along the SW/SE
Freeway, and past the Marine Barracks brought us to our final
location...Barney Circle.  This circle long represented the north end
of what was constructed of I-295...a situation that has changed over
the past few months with AASHTO/FHWA approval of routing changes to
both I-295 and hidden I-695 as part of the soon-to-begin 11th Street
Bridges project.  In addition, the ramps connecting the 11th Street
Bridge to Barney Circle were recently demolished.  Another feature just
south of the circle is another very old overhead guide sign, still
holding an I-295 shield, for what would have been the southbound
connection from the East Leg to the 11th Street Bridge.

After Barney Circle, we all returned to the starting point to collect
our cars and give the official farewell, though that was not it for
everyone as several of us got together for dinner afterwards.

All in all, a good meet.

Froggie

See
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704533904574546253036860122.html?m\
od=googlenews_wsj

or http://snipurl.com/tc1ih

Carlyle owns Dunkin Donuts...they'll be part of the team...as will
Subway restaurants.

Richard

--
Richard Cuff / Allentown, PA  USA

End/Begin signs are now up at the new end of PA 60 at I-376/US 22/30 in
Robinson.  Jason Reighard sent some photos over to me today.

http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2009/11/pa-60-officially-truncated.html

Conversion of US 15 to Interstate 99 took another step yesterday when PennDOT
opened the rebuilt southbound lanes on Steam Valley Mountain in Lycoming County.
Work will not be complete on that entire section of US 15 until Fall 2010.

http://tinyurl.com/yez3n4d
http://www.wnep.com/wnep-lyc-route-15--south-improvements-open,0,2641411.story

Jeff Kitsko
Webmaster
Pennsylvania Highways:  http://www.pahighways.com/

----- Original Message -----

From: Steve

To: northeastroads@yahoogroups.com ; roadgeek@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 6:45 PM

Subject: [northeastroads] Re: Coolest Interstate Map Ever?

 

It is not cool to have an image so tiny and that can't be enlarged in any way.  I see he's trying to protect it so that he can sell it later.  I do not respect that at all.  If you are going to post an image, please post it large enough to be readable?

 

Steve A.
http://www.alpsroads.net

From: Christopher R. Merlo <cmerlo441@gmail.com>
To: roadgeek@yahoogroups.com; Northeast Roads <northeastroads@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, November 17, 2009 3:41:25 PM
Subject: [northeastroads] Coolest Interstate Map Ever?

 

Sorry if this is repeated (I have fallen *way* behind in e-mail this semester), but this is the coolest thing I've seen in a long time:  http://www.flickr. com/photos/ senexprime/ 4055072020/
-c

On Tuesday, November 17, 2009, Steve <zoningpermit@...> wrote:

> It is not cool to have an image so tiny and that can't be enlarged in any
way.  I see he's trying to protect it so that he can sell it later.  I do not
respect that at all.  If you are going to post an image, please post it large
enough to be readable?
>  Steve A.
> http://www.alpsroads.net

If you can log into Flickr, you can see the really big version. If you
can't, let me know and I will post the really big version somewhere.
-c

One error with that article:  The feed-in on the Maryland side is 3 lanes each
way, not 4.

Some upd*tes from my area
http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2009/11/southeast-new-york-stuff.html

1 week reminder for the DC/WWB meet:

Notice:  D.C./Woodrow Wilson Bridge Meet Date:  November 21, 2009 Time:
   11:00am Location:  Chili's Grill & Bar Address:  6601 Richmond
Highway, Alexandria, VA  22306 (7 stoplights south of the Beltway on US
1)

Walking tour of the WWB and parts of the I-66 and SE Freeways in D.C.,
and driving tour including Springfield Interchange, Fairfax County Pkwy
construction, and Beltway HO/T lane construction.

A reminder that this will be a very walk-intensive tour.  At least 3.5
miles worth of walking.

RSVP via E-mail.

Froggie

November 10, 2009

ICC project costs stay on course

Responses piece by piece below.

  Steve A.
http://www.alpsroads.net


>
>From: C P Zilliacus <CPZ@...>
>To: northeastroads@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Fri, November 13, 2009 11:25:27 AM
>Subject: [northeastroads] Re: TOLLROADSnews: HNTB provides Maine false &
misleading advice on all-electronic tolling (EDITORIAL)
>
>  >
>>
>
>--- In northeastroads@ yahoogroups. com, Steve <zoningpermit@ ...> wrote:
>
>> The editorial itself is spreading gross  misinformation.
>> It's counting HOT lanes as AET roadways, which is not
>> the definition of AET.  There go the first five paragraphs
>> or so.
>
>That's a matter of interpretation.  The HOT lanes that I
>have seen (along California's Route 91/Riverside Freeway
>and I-15/Escondido Freeway) are, for the purposes of toll
>collection, AET.

Understood, but AET implies the entire roadway.  You can travel CA 91 and I-15
without having to pay a toll.  Can you even use the HOT lanes without the
transponder?  The very concept of AET is that all users, not just transponder
carriers, can use the roadway.
>
>
>> "FACT: at least half the toll facilities in the country
>> are either in course of conversion to AET, doing detailed
>> planning studies, or studying it at the staff level."
>> No.  Conversion to AET?  Are you out of your freakin
>> gourd?  (The editorial writer, not you.)  Most highways
>> are indeed looking at Open Road Tolling, but very very
>> few are looking at AET for an entire roadway.  Again, most
>> of them are HOT lanes.
>
>Ever heard of Maryland's InterCounty Connector (now
>under construction) ?  Or Ontario's Highway 407?

407 was one of the examples given, and not in this country.  The editorial said
"at least half."  ICC is not a toll facility yet, so it can't count in the total
either.
>
>> "HNTB claim: no existing cash-based agency has completed a
>> total conversion to AET and therefore there is little to
>> no available comparable information to assist other
>> agencies with forecasting the applicability of AET for
>> their own roadway.
>>
>> FACT: E470PHA CO
>> completed a total conversion from cash to AET July 4 this year
>> and CTRMA TX in December last year. Moreover there have been
>> several complete conversions to AET in Australia and other
>> countries."
>>
>> Less than a single year of data from two roadways strikes
>> me as "little to no available comparable information. "
>
>Well, Highway 407 was AET from the first day of operation, back
>in 1997.  And the toll collection gantries on Highway 407 are
>little different from those on Ca. 91 and I-15.

Was 407 an existing cash-based agency?  I thought it was specifically created
for the 407.
>
>> "FACT: By adopting Open Road Tolling through the middle of a
>> rebuilt York Toll Plaza the Maine Turnpike will be exposed
>> to this same challenge and risk of non-collection from
>> out-of-state drivers as AET, while also continuing to bear
>> the heavy cost of cash toll collection."  Wrong.  With
>> AET, every driver, even a legitimate one, has to be
>> billed.  You can only charge a small surcharge because
>> the driver has done nothing wrong.  With ORT, the only
>> bills are sent to scofflaws because RIGHT THERE, guess
>> what, are cash lanes.  So you get a nice hefty surcharge
>> to recoup your costs.
>
>I am not going to debate the issue of AET vs. cash toll
>collection, except to say that handing cash in the volumes
>that a busy toll roads generates is expensive.  You have to
>pay the toll collection staff, and even in exact change lanes,
>the machines have to be emptied on a regular basis.  I have
>observed cash being picked up from a few toll plazas in
>Maryland and Virginia, and the dump truck-sized armored
>vehicles that are required, along with the armed guards,
>are not cheap.

The comparison is ORT vs. AET.  He's ignoring the cash booths in that matter,
and so am I in my response.
>
>With all electronic toll collection, there's none of that.
>
>Now the readers and cameras and license plate reader
>equipment is needed, and that's not free either, but it
>seems to me that it has to be much less expensive than
>the old roll-down-the- window-and- pay method.  And
>there's no stop in traffic with electronic toll collection of
>any kind.

I won't deny that AET is probably cheaper in the long run than all-cash tolling
or even ORT.  I will argue that AET and ORT have the "same" risks and
challenges.
>
>> Sorry, let's not let the facts get in the way of a
>> biased editorial.  I wonder if the writer is in the
>> pocket of a rival company?
>
>I know the writer of that editorial quite well - personally,
>and he carefully labels his opinions as such, but more
>importantly, he knows what he's talking about.
>
So do I.  And so far, apparently I know more about it than he does.  Obviously
I'm not going to engage either of you in pointless debate over this, but I will
stand for the truth and make sure my points are clear.

--- In northeastroads@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Merlo <cmerlo441@...> wrote:

> Oh, I misread the subject to mean bridges on NY 110 in Suffolk County, upon
> which I find myself a couple times a month, including last night.  Still not
> good news, though.  The bridges listed in the article are all Capital Region
> only; anyone know where one might find a list of all 110?

https://www.nysdot.gov/main/bridgedata

Scroll to the bottom for listings by county.

http://tinyurl.com/ycwkqz7

I've always been reasonably impressed with the New York Sate Bridge Authority:
The bridges are well-maintained, yet the tolls have stayed within the bounds of
reason.

http://www.wcax.com/global/story.asp?s=11471267

http://www.lcbclosure.org

For those unfamilliar, this is the bridge on NY 185/VT 17, near the
south end of Lake Champlain.  It was closed last year after NYSDOT and
VTrans officials deemed it unsafe.  Today's announcement comes on the
heels of the preliminary report from URS which basically says the
bridge's piers are too far gone for the bridge to be rehabbed.

Will be interesting to see how the bridge replacement gets
fast-tracked, since NYSDOT/VTrans were already planning a $50 million
project in 2013 that would have done major rehab or replacement of the
bridge.

Froggie

PennDOT Secretary Allen Biehler joined with local and state officials today to
announce that Interstate 376 now officially extends from Interstate 80 in Sharon
to I-76/PA Turnpike in Monroeville.  Starting today, PennDOT will install or
uncover new Interstate 376 markers along the now former PA 60 corridor.  PA 60
is now just signed between Robinson and the West End.

http://tinyurl.com/ylhplr4

Jeff Kitsko
Webmaster
Pennsylvania Highways:  http://www.pahighways.com/

----- Original Message -----

From: Jeffrey Klugh

To: Southeast Roads ; Northeast Roads

Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 8:36 AM

Subject: [northeastroads] US 220/US 219 WV/MD making some progress

http://www.times-news.com/archivesearch/local_story_307000111.html

 

Apparently the stimulus has freed up some cash for these 4 lane routes through Maryland and West Virginia.  Leaders from the Potomac Highlands are on their way to DC to make sure more funding gets allocated to these projects.  Also, I am pretty sure that PA has committed to expanding US 219 south of Somerset, right? 
 

Jeffrey Klugh
jeffklugh@...