The part is gone - Joe Blenzi claimed it first.

Thanks for playing along.

Joe,
The Twisted Knot Woodshop, "There's never been a classier joint"

Visit The Twisted Knot Woodshop:  http://www.twistedknotwoodshop.com
Visit Sawdusters.org:  http://www.sawdusters.org


--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.8/381 - Release Date: 7/3/2006

I am waiting with baited breath, Tony.  But however this whole thing
works out, I want to thank you for your yeoman's efforts!  and,,
Keith, KJS, et al, too.

Hopefully we will all get out of the long dark tunnel intact....

dave young

the original toaster dummy

--- In oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com, "tschmaling" <tschmaling@...>
wrote:
>
> It is time...
>
> Tomorrow (July 4th) at 3:00pm central time, the Old Woodworking
> Machines group on Yahoo! will be locked down, and we will be moving
> to our new location. Because it will take a little time to move the
> final posts, fuzzy dice and garage door opener over to the new
> system, the universe will be devoid of OWWM discussion for
> approximately 2 hours. At this time, you will be able to navigate
to
> the new site and begin the login process.
>
> "Wait a minute... how do I know where to go, or how to log in??"
> Fair question. All current active members on the Yahoo! group will
be
> notified via email what their login name is and how to get to the
> site, login and set your password.
>
> "Ok, when should I expect this email and where?"
> This email will be auto-generated and delivered to the email
address
> you are registered with on the Yahoo! page. It will arrive sometime
> betwixt now and the time the new site is open.
>
> NOTE: If you do not receive this email before 3:00pm (cst)
tomorrow,
> check your spam filter/junkmail box. If there is still no sign of
the
> email, it probably got lost in the ether. Fear not, grasshopper.
The
> final post on the Yahoo group will have a link to our new address.
Go
> to the new site and post up your problem in the Support forum
> (registration will not be required). Should you not be able to even
> get that far, the final post will also contain an email address to
> contact an admin directly for further assistance.
>
>
> DO NOT RE-REGISTER ON THE NEW FORUM. This will cause you to lose
your
> post counts and original join-date and generally disrupt the
balance
> of the force. Again, should you encounter login problems anywhere
> along the way, you will be able to get help in the Support forum.
>
>
>
> Stay tuned for further updates.
>
> Thanks,
> tony
>

Hi Hugh,

The part about cutting sheet goods is a sticker, sort of..  When working
with plywood, I rather use a straight edge and circular saw.  (I can change
blades easily and don't have to do the "balancing act" with a large sheet.)
So THAT is not really an issue for me.

It's all a matter of paradigm, as you suggest.  ORM (Operational Risk
Management) was drilled into me in the Navy and I know what you are talking
about.  The only thing I would add is that the risk is increased at the
beginning of the learning curve, slowly tapers off with experience, and
drops dramatically after the first mishap.

Happy 4th!

Chip

-----Original Message-----
From: oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of copaltree.home
Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 11:06 AM
To: oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [oldwwmachines] Re: Tilting Tables


--- In oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com, "Chip's Mail" <chip@...> wrote:

Chip:

I have used a Delta-Milwaukee 10 tilting table saw as my only saw
for something approaching 30 years.  Benefit is things like original
cost (about $75 including stand & motor at a time when that was a
lot of money to me) belt driven so no problems with fiting motors,
and for it's size it is rock solid and not stressed by the 2HP RA
when the locks are set.  Simplicity is also a plus; compare the
tilting table mechanism with the mechanism required to swing a motor
and arbor through it's arc and maintain accuracy over years of use.
The obvious drawback for the tilting table is that if you set a
table extension next to it you cannot cut a bevel on anything,
spcifically sheet material.

Dangerous? To some extent my work is risk management.  Something I
learned early on is that people typically perceive things they are
not familiar with as high risk and things they are familiar with as
low risk...no matter the real risk level.  I have used the tilting
table saw all my life and don't see it a presentiing any unusual
risk, I know it looks weird when shown as cranked over to 45
degrees, but I almost never do such a thing, preferring to find
another way to accomplish the task.

Best regards

Hugh Vance
Palm Springs, CA




> Hey Folks,
>
> I've been kinda working myself up to ask this...
>
> Is there any benefit to having a tilting table on a table saw over
a tilting
> arbor?  I have not seen one in action, but on the surface, the
tilting
> tables look kind of dangerous.
>
> Just a question that has been bugging me for some time now...
>
> Cheers!
>
> Chip
>







To access the group's archive without those pesky pop-ups, go to:
http://discussion.oldwwmachines.com

If you'd like to visit our Web page go to:
http://www.owwm.com And as always, stay vigilant...


Yahoo! Groups Links

How do you pick up a 2200 lb jointer with a 2 ton HF hoist??

In pieces.

You really weren't going to clean and paint it as a complete machine were you?

As long as I'm spending someone else's money the really slick way to handle the
lifting question is to turn Bob V's 12' rule  90 degrees.

Install a bridge crane with 12' under the hook, span to suit the building and
put a powered Coffing hoist on it rated for, say, 5 tons. THEN - WE don't need
no stinkin' mobile bases.

You could consider it a mobile base in the sky.

Bob Black in Atlanta

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Alan DuBoff
   To: oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 4:33 PM
   Subject: Re: [oldwwmachines] Re: Cleaning tables, there is always hope


   On Monday 03 July 2006 06:22 am, Kirk Poore wrote:
   > I bought a Horror Freight fold-up engine hoist for $160 about a year
   > ago. In my book, it's paid for itself. I've used it to lift tables
   > from my mortiser, TS, and shaper; unload machines from trailers
   > instead of using ramps (TS, shaper, 18" planer);
   > disassemble/reassemble whole machines (TS and mortiser); and rescue a
   > turned-over metal lathe. It's rated for a max of 2 tons, but other
   > than the lathe nothing has really strained it.

   Ok, this sounds like it might work. I'm not sure that 1700 lbs. is liftable by
   one of these though.

   > > If I need to move it I could hoist the saw and slip the mobile base
   > > under it.
   > I did exactly that last week with my Oliver 399 planer (~1100 lbs).
   > I put a new base under it so I could use my pallet jack.

   Ok, the $64k question is if it will handle 1700 lbs. Even to get the top off
   would be helpful, but ideally to lift the entire saw to slide the mobile base
   under would be the ticket.

   > I'm only using it to maybe 50% of rated weight (varies with arm
   > length). So even if you significantly downrate it, it still can
   > handle the load.

   This is good to know.

   > The engine hoist will be worth it. And the fold-up jobs really don't
   > take up much space.

   That was an attraction to the engine hoist.

   --

   Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration
   GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What saw you've got and what you with that saw are two separate issues.
   Here's a site of a guy that's been using a tilt-table Delta 10" saw
since the late 70's.  Jake still has a matched set of 10 fingers.
If today's hobby woodworking magazine marketing hype were applied, the
ad would attempt to have you infer that UNLESS you have a tilting table
saw, you can't do this level of work :-)
http://www.jakecress.com/picture_gallery.htm


Bob Vaughan
Roanoke VA


On Tuesday, July 4, 2006, at 11:06 AM, copaltree.home wrote:

> --- In oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com, "Chip's Mail" <chip@...> wrote:
>
> Chip:
>
> I have used a Delta-Milwaukee 10 tilting table saw as my only saw
> for something approaching 30 years. Benefit is things like original
> cost (about $75 including stand & motor at a time when that was a
> lot of money to me)  [edit]> Hey Folks,
> >
> > I've been kinda working myself up to ask this...
> >
> > Is there any benefit to having a tilting table on a table saw over
> a tilting
> > arbor? I have not seen one in action, but on the surface, the
> tilting
> > tables look kind of dangerous.
> >
> > Just a question that has been bugging me for some time now...
> >
> > Cheers!
> >
> > Chip
> >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

One hell-uv-a-lot.

Here's how.

Assuming you have a  shop, garage or basement with exposed ceiling joists. If
your joints are covered a 16 oz. framing hammer wielded with a heavy hand will
make the conversion fairly quickly.

First you get 2 lengths of 2x4, cut to joist width plus 4-6".

Drill a 1 1/8" hole, center about 2 1/2" from one end through the flat side of
the 2x4.
This is to poke a 3/4" pipe nipple through. Then cross drill the 3 1/2"
direction to put a 3/8" bolt through the 2x4. This is to prevent the 2x4 from
splitting. Pull the bolt up tight.

Then bolt (not screw) with 2 - 3/8" bolts each to a ceiling joist. Do the same
thing to the adjacent joist. Leave the end with the big hole below the bottom of
the joists by about 1". Then run a 3/4" pipe nipple - 24" long (assuming 16"oc.
joist spacing through the big holes.. Drill bolt holes 1/2" for easy boltup.

Then get 2 - 2x4's or 4x4's if you are not confident of the set up. Cut the
length to a little less that the bottom of joist to top of concrete (or whatever
your floor is.) dimension and then make a pair of long slope wedges for each
2x4.

Then locate a 2x4 under each one of the hoisting joists close to the pickup
point, but out of your way as much as possible., tap the wedges under the bottom
end. Just tap them in enough to take a strain. If you really drive them in you
can lift more of the house than you think possible - look out cracked sheet rock
joints.

Now you have a pair of joists with a stiff leg under them close to the load
point

The hooks on my come-a-longs will not go over the 3/4" pipe. I have to slip the
pipe back through the 2x4 bores and thread the pipe through the hook. That's why
I have sloppy bores for easy pipe sliding.

In the south there is a politically incorrect term for such design engineering

For you skeptics, this isn't something I read in a book. I have done it. The
house is still standing, much to SWMBO's surprise. Skeptic tho she is, the kind
soul helped me take the jointer parts across the yard on my improvised off road
heavy hauler (pallet jack) written about much earlier.

I did get cautious and use a pair of the above described setup on some of the
heavier parts.

A quick glance at an antique edition of Architectural Graphic Standards shows
max load of a 4x4 - 8' column is 10, 200 lbs.

Regards,

Bob Black in Atlanta


   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Alan DuBoff
   To: oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 5:03 PM
   Subject: Re: [oldwwmachines] Re: Cleaning tables, there is always hope


   On Monday 03 July 2006 10:55 am, fustyducker wrote:
   > If I but had the room...but I don't. So I accomplish much the same
   > result using an inexpensive 1-ton chain hoist hung from a large
   > lifting eye bolt secured on top of a joist truss spanning across the
   > center of my 2-car garage/shop.

   I thought about this, but wasn't sure if the rafters would hold 1700 lbs.

   It would suck to bring the roof down on the garage/shop.

   > Less convenient for sure,
   > but gets the job done without investing dollars, or space, in a gantry.

   How much you reckon the average 2 car garage could take?

   --

   Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration
   GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I just uploaded some pix of a tilt top that I've used a lot.  I don't
like to tip it much, too much hassle esp with the first sheet of ply
that I cut, never done that again.  Even making cross cuts could be
problem if I were on the "r" side of the blade and losing track of
where my stock was going-falling.  I've had a few helpers when using
that saw and luckily I still have ten wiggling fingers, some past
helpers I can do without.  Its a good saw when handled-used
correctly, its not a saw I would enjoy teaching on, except what to
stay away from. As shown in the photos, it could really use a
splitter, amongst other things.   Bill

  --- In oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com, "Chip's Mail" <chip@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Hugh,
>
> The part about cutting sheet goods is a sticker, sort of..  When
working
> with plywood, I rather use a straight edge and circular saw.  (I
can change
> blades easily and don't have to do the "balancing act" with a large
sheet.)
> So THAT is not really an issue for me.
>
> It's all a matter of paradigm, as you suggest.  ORM (Operational
Risk
> Management) was drilled into me in the Navy and I know what you are
talking
> about.  The only thing I would add is that the risk is increased at
the
> beginning of the learning curve, slowly tapers off with experience,
and
> drops dramatically after the first mishap.
>
> Happy 4th!
>
> Chip
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of copaltree.home
> Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 11:06 AM
> To: oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [oldwwmachines] Re: Tilting Tables
>
>
> --- In oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com, "Chip's Mail" <chip@> wrote:
>
> Chip:
>
> I have used a Delta-Milwaukee 10 tilting table saw as my only saw
> for something approaching 30 years.  Benefit is things like original
> cost (about $75 including stand & motor at a time when that was a
> lot of money to me) belt driven so no problems with fiting motors,
> and for it's size it is rock solid and not stressed by the 2HP RA
> when the locks are set.  Simplicity is also a plus; compare the
> tilting table mechanism with the mechanism required to swing a motor
> and arbor through it's arc and maintain accuracy over years of use.
> The obvious drawback for the tilting table is that if you set a
> table extension next to it you cannot cut a bevel on anything,
> spcifically sheet material.
>
> Dangerous? To some extent my work is risk management.  Something I
> learned early on is that people typically perceive things they are
> not familiar with as high risk and things they are familiar with as
> low risk...no matter the real risk level.  I have used the tilting
> table saw all my life and don't see it a presentiing any unusual
> risk, I know it looks weird when shown as cranked over to 45
> degrees, but I almost never do such a thing, preferring to find
> another way to accomplish the task.
>
> Best regards
>
> Hugh Vance
> Palm Springs, CA
>
>
>
>
> > Hey Folks,
> >
> > I've been kinda working myself up to ask this...
> >
> > Is there any benefit to having a tilting table on a table saw over
> a tilting
> > arbor?  I have not seen one in action, but on the surface, the
> tilting
> > tables look kind of dangerous.
> >
> > Just a question that has been bugging me for some time now...
> >
> > Cheers!
> >
> > Chip
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To access the group's archive without those pesky pop-ups, go to:
> http://discussion.oldwwmachines.com
>
> If you'd like to visit our Web page go to:
> http://www.owwm.com And as always, stay vigilant...
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>

Fernandez......
> > What area does Walmart carry this Perma Blue?  Walmart's a big
place!

> Look in the firearms / hunting goods section.  RIck
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Try a Gander Mountain store if you have one. Or a gun shop.
"G96" is a good brand of bluing creme.
or for mail order, try Brownell's dot com. Or Cabela's......
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
as noted, this process offers little or no rust protection and I
strongly suggest preparing the surface with 3 or 4 ought steel wool
then a thorough wipe off with acetone. (alcohol/thinners, etc don't
cut it)
P suds
drilling holes for wires for Owwm today :^)
som'eres way west of Delta-plane virginny

Now THAT guy has talent!

Good quality tools give advantage to any woodworker, to be sure...  But it
seems to me that people with this gentleman's talent can make beautiful
items using "stone knives and bear skins" (to borrow a line from my favorite
Star Trek episode...)

Chip

-----Original Message-----
From: oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Robert Vaughan
Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 12:25 PM
To: oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [oldwwmachines] Re: Tilting Tables


What saw you've got and what you with that saw are two separate issues.
   Here's a site of a guy that's been using a tilt-table Delta 10" saw
since the late 70's.  Jake still has a matched set of 10 fingers.
If today's hobby woodworking magazine marketing hype were applied, the
ad would attempt to have you infer that UNLESS you have a tilting table
saw, you can't do this level of work :-)
http://www.jakecress.com/picture_gallery.htm


Bob Vaughan
Roanoke VA


On Tuesday, July 4, 2006, at 11:06 AM, copaltree.home wrote:

> --- In oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com, "Chip's Mail" <chip@...> wrote:
>
> Chip:
>
> I have used a Delta-Milwaukee 10 tilting table saw as my only saw
> for something approaching 30 years. Benefit is things like original
> cost (about $75 including stand & motor at a time when that was a
> lot of money to me)  [edit]> Hey Folks,
> >
> > I've been kinda working myself up to ask this...
> >
> > Is there any benefit to having a tilting table on a table saw over
> a tilting
> > arbor? I have not seen one in action, but on the surface, the
> tilting
> > tables look kind of dangerous.
> >
> > Just a question that has been bugging me for some time now...
> >
> > Cheers!
> >
> > Chip
> >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




To access the group's archive without those pesky pop-ups, go to:
http://discussion.oldwwmachines.com

If you'd like to visit our Web page go to:
http://www.owwm.com And as always, stay vigilant...


Yahoo! Groups Links

ahhh yes, I remember that one. Any movie involving time travel is tops for
me...

Gary

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chip's Mail" <chip@...>
To: <oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 1:20 PM
Subject: RE: [oldwwmachines] Re: Tilting Tables


> Now THAT guy has talent!
>
> Good quality tools give advantage to any woodworker, to be sure...  But it
> seems to me that people with this gentleman's talent can make beautiful
> items using "stone knives and bear skins" (to borrow a line from my
> favorite
> Star Trek episode...)
>
> Chip
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Robert Vaughan
> Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 12:25 PM
> To: oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [oldwwmachines] Re: Tilting Tables
>
>
> What saw you've got and what you with that saw are two separate issues.
>  Here's a site of a guy that's been using a tilt-table Delta 10" saw
> since the late 70's.  Jake still has a matched set of 10 fingers.
> If today's hobby woodworking magazine marketing hype were applied, the
> ad would attempt to have you infer that UNLESS you have a tilting table
> saw, you can't do this level of work :-)
> http://www.jakecress.com/picture_gallery.htm
>
>
> Bob Vaughan
> Roanoke VA
>
>
> On Tuesday, July 4, 2006, at 11:06 AM, copaltree.home wrote:
>
>> --- In oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com, "Chip's Mail" <chip@...> wrote:
>>
>> Chip:
>>
>> I have used a Delta-Milwaukee 10 tilting table saw as my only saw
>> for something approaching 30 years. Benefit is things like original
>> cost (about $75 including stand & motor at a time when that was a
>> lot of money to me)  [edit]> Hey Folks,
>> >
>> > I've been kinda working myself up to ask this...
>> >
>> > Is there any benefit to having a tilting table on a table saw over
>> a tilting
>> > arbor? I have not seen one in action, but on the surface, the
>> tilting
>> > tables look kind of dangerous.
>> >
>> > Just a question that has been bugging me for some time now...
>> >
>> > Cheers!
>> >
>> > Chip
>> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> To access the group's archive without those pesky pop-ups, go to:
> http://discussion.oldwwmachines.com
>
> If you'd like to visit our Web page go to:
> http://www.owwm.com And as always, stay vigilant...
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To access the group's archive without those pesky pop-ups, go to:
> http://discussion.oldwwmachines.com
>
> If you'd like to visit our Web page go to:
> http://www.owwm.com And as always, stay vigilant...
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

Dang, Rick! Ya'll hittin' the sauce a bit heavy for this early in day,
ain't ya? Keep that up and you be seein' stars long before the Rotary
Club actually shoots theirs off! Ina same spirit, with all that extra
potential brought to bear, some more capable hardware may become
necessary, somethin' like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-x-12-House-Screw-Jack-Star-of-David_W0QQitemZ300004033918Q\
QihZ020QQcategoryZ11704QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

--- In oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com, Rick Antrobus <yahoo@...> wrote:
>
> Quoting Alan DuBoff <aland@...>:
> > The thing is that if I lift it from below, I can't get it on the
mobile base.
>
> Not so, Alan!  You can support it by three corners at a time, while
> sliding the mobile base under the fourth corner.  Have your wife sit
> on the corner of the table opposite that with the "missing" block to
> keep that side down.  It can be a tricky, time consuming process, but
> I've done it several times.  Some planning will be required on your
> part when you design the mobile base to ensure that you always have a
> spot to support the saw from while not interfering with the process of
> lowering it onto the base.  Keep your hands out from under the machine
> (easier said than done, sometimes).
>
> > There are a few issues. If I am to use electrolysis on the top, I
will need
> > to flip it, and the safest way is probably to lift it, sit it on
the side,
> > muscle it around with a hand truck, lift it back with bottom up.
>
> I'd do the top vertically.  Built a tall tank with a footprint of 12"
> x 48", and hang the top from cable from a joist overhead or some other
> suitable structure.  That way, you can do all sides of the top in one
> shot.
>
> Rick Antrobus
> Bethlehem, PA
>

"Keith Bohn" wrote:

> Me?  I'm just now waking up on the morning of the day we make the
break from Yahoo.  What do I have to say about that?  YAHOO!!!
>
> Keith Bohn

.... It is time...  !&^*SNIP*^&! (fireworks)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Just offering my humble thanks and attaboys to Keith and Tony and the
rest that helped make the change and worked on it and etc.
Looking forward to it.
Suds

I think it was the only episode that a four letter word was used too.
"Let's get the hell out of here" - the last line of the movie.

ObOWWM: Uh...can't really think of any right now....

-----Original Message-----
From: oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of GHP
Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 1:27 PM
To: oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [oldwwmachines] Re: Tilting Tables


ahhh yes, I remember that one. Any movie involving time travel is tops for
me...

Gary

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chip's Mail" <chip@...>
To: <oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 1:20 PM
Subject: RE: [oldwwmachines] Re: Tilting Tables


> Now THAT guy has talent!
>
> Good quality tools give advantage to any woodworker, to be sure...  But it
> seems to me that people with this gentleman's talent can make beautiful
> items using "stone knives and bear skins" (to borrow a line from my
> favorite
> Star Trek episode...)
>
> Chip
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Robert Vaughan
> Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 12:25 PM
> To: oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [oldwwmachines] Re: Tilting Tables
>
>
> What saw you've got and what you with that saw are two separate issues.
>  Here's a site of a guy that's been using a tilt-table Delta 10" saw
> since the late 70's.  Jake still has a matched set of 10 fingers.
> If today's hobby woodworking magazine marketing hype were applied, the
> ad would attempt to have you infer that UNLESS you have a tilting table
> saw, you can't do this level of work :-)
> http://www.jakecress.com/picture_gallery.htm
>
>
> Bob Vaughan
> Roanoke VA
>
>
> On Tuesday, July 4, 2006, at 11:06 AM, copaltree.home wrote:
>
>> --- In oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com, "Chip's Mail" <chip@...> wrote:
>>
>> Chip:
>>
>> I have used a Delta-Milwaukee 10 tilting table saw as my only saw
>> for something approaching 30 years. Benefit is things like original
>> cost (about $75 including stand & motor at a time when that was a
>> lot of money to me)  [edit]> Hey Folks,
>> >
>> > I've been kinda working myself up to ask this...
>> >
>> > Is there any benefit to having a tilting table on a table saw over
>> a tilting
>> > arbor? I have not seen one in action, but on the surface, the
>> tilting
>> > tables look kind of dangerous.
>> >
>> > Just a question that has been bugging me for some time now...
>> >
>> > Cheers!
>> >
>> > Chip
>> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> To access the group's archive without those pesky pop-ups, go to:
> http://discussion.oldwwmachines.com
>
> If you'd like to visit our Web page go to:
> http://www.owwm.com And as always, stay vigilant...
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To access the group's archive without those pesky pop-ups, go to:
> http://discussion.oldwwmachines.com
>
> If you'd like to visit our Web page go to:
> http://www.owwm.com And as always, stay vigilant...
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>



To access the group's archive without those pesky pop-ups, go to:
http://discussion.oldwwmachines.com

If you'd like to visit our Web page go to:
http://www.owwm.com And as always, stay vigilant...


Yahoo! Groups Links

It is the sporting goods section near the gun cleaning supplies.


--- In oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com, C Fernandez <fernande@...> wrote:
>
> From: "louismorrell" <lmorrell@...>
> > What I did with good results
> > was to bead blast the parts then use Birchwood Casey Perma Blue
from
> > Wal-Mart. It did a very good job.
>
> Louis,
>
> What area does Walmart carry this Perma Blue?  Walmart's a big place!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chad Fernandez
> Michigan, USA
>

On Tuesday 04 July 2006 04:54 am, Keith Bohn wrote:
> Me?  I'm just now waking up on the morning of the day we make the break
> from Yahoo.  What do I have to say about that?  YAHOO!!!

This is a monumental event, IMO, and I certainly understand this centiment.

More than 10 years ago, I was a part of a mailing list which was hosted by a
private company. The company was looking to let one of the members take the
list, who was planning to move it to Yahoo. Several of the folks (me
included) were to moderate the list.

This all took place and over the course of the next several years most of the
list member's lives were miserable. They continued to receive spam, and the
moderators of the list were spam'd even worse.

Everytime we tried to contact yahoo admins, we were greeted with responses of
how they have no control over things, there was really nothing they could do,
yada-yada-yada...

For years people were held hostage in this same situation, literally, hundreds
of them as yahoo offerred free hosting, and as such, many folks flocked there
to host their portals which had mailing lists as well.

Congratualations to the folks that were able to move away from the shackles of
yahoo, most of the list members will never know what they've gone through.

I fully support the admins and folks behind this list in their move off yahoo,
and would just throw out a pitch for the folks that run this list. Toss a few
$$$s if you can to help support the effort of this list, without folks that
took their time and energy to run this list, there would be no list. The
mothership is such a resource of information. Just in helping me research
table saws for my recent acquisition, there's a load of info available on the
mothership like no other place for old woodworking machines. I am quite new
to this list, but I do appreciate the info and knowledge that has been put
together. The mothership is a great place.

Speaking for myself, there couldn't be a more appropriate day to move a list
other than Independence Day! As we celebrate our 230th Independence Day in
America, let us all remember what a great place many of us live in, and I
have truely learned why the good 'ol U.S of A. is so great, and I have
learned the honest way...by living in another country for 5 years of my life.

With that said, I'll be tossin' a cold one for this monumental event, and I'll
be burnin' a hot one also (old habits are hard to break...and not that I want
to;-).

May the arn be with you!

--

Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration
GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE

Folks,

Bob Smalser did a write-up on rustproofing tools, which I think some may find
helpful to this discussion.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=28340

--

Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration
GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE

On Tuesday 04 July 2006 06:30 am, Rick Antrobus wrote:
> Not so, Alan!  You can support it by three corners at a time, while
> sliding the mobile base under the fourth corner.  Have your wife sit
> on the corner of the table opposite that with the "missing" block to
> keep that side down.

My wife is 5'3" and weighs about 110 lbs.

This saw weighs 1700 lbs.

I'll tell you what, I'm with Cliff on this one, I'm not sure I want to be
pivoting any 1700 lb. saw on one leg (not quite sure how you can support it
on 3 legs and lift one, it's cast iron), and especially don't want my wife
anywhere nearby if I was doing that. Call me old fashioned!;-)

I like the idea of lifting this from above I think...but wrapped under the
bottom of the base with some type of sling.

> I'd do the top vertically.  Built a tall tank with a footprint of 12"
> x 48", and hang the top from cable from a joist overhead or some other
> suitable structure.  That way, you can do all sides of the top in one
> shot.

So you would build a taller, narrower tank, rather than a shallow tank to lay
the top in. Any advantage to either way?

--

Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration
GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE

On Tuesday 04 July 2006 09:55 am, Bob Black wrote:
> Here's how.

Wow, thanks for such excellent info. Much appreciated.

One comment.

> A quick glance at an antique edition of Architectural Graphic Standards
> shows max load of a 4x4 - 8' column is 10, 200 lbs.

Seems the 4x4 mortised together would work in this case then. In a sense, to
build one's own gantry crane out of 4x4 seems it would work, no? That was my
original thinking.

--

Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration
GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE

--- In oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com, "Chip's Mail" <chip@...> wrote:

Chip:

I agree with you about the straight edge and circular saw for sheet
stock, that is what I do also.  When I cut anything long on the
table saw I use a helper to catch it... obviously I don't make a
living at this.

And the first mishap is where respect is re-enforced !


Have a safe and enjoyable 4th of July.

Hugh



>
> Hi Hugh,
>
> The part about cutting sheet goods is a sticker, sort of..  When
working
> with plywood, I rather use a straight edge and circular saw.  (I
can change
> blades easily and don't have to do the "balancing act" with a
large sheet.)
> So THAT is not really an issue for me.
>
> It's all a matter of paradigm, as you suggest.  ORM (Operational
Risk
> Management) was drilled into me in the Navy and I know what you
are talking
> about.  The only thing I would add is that the risk is increased
at the
> beginning of the learning curve, slowly tapers off with
experience, and
> drops dramatically after the first mishap.
>
> Happy 4th!
>
> Chip
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of copaltree.home
> Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 11:06 AM
> To: oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [oldwwmachines] Re: Tilting Tables
>
>
> --- In oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com, "Chip's Mail" <chip@> wrote:
>
> Chip:
>
> I have used a Delta-Milwaukee 10 tilting table saw as my only saw
> for something approaching 30 years.  Benefit is things like
original
> cost (about $75 including stand & motor at a time when that was a
> lot of money to me) belt driven so no problems with fiting motors,
> and for it's size it is rock solid and not stressed by the 2HP RA
> when the locks are set.  Simplicity is also a plus; compare the
> tilting table mechanism with the mechanism required to swing a
motor
> and arbor through it's arc and maintain accuracy over years of use.
> The obvious drawback for the tilting table is that if you set a
> table extension next to it you cannot cut a bevel on anything,
> spcifically sheet material.
>
> Dangerous? To some extent my work is risk management.  Something I
> learned early on is that people typically perceive things they are
> not familiar with as high risk and things they are familiar with as
> low risk...no matter the real risk level.  I have used the tilting
> table saw all my life and don't see it a presentiing any unusual
> risk, I know it looks weird when shown as cranked over to 45
> degrees, but I almost never do such a thing, preferring to find
> another way to accomplish the task.
>
> Best regards
>
> Hugh Vance
> Palm Springs, CA
>
>
>
>
> > Hey Folks,
> >
> > I've been kinda working myself up to ask this...
> >
> > Is there any benefit to having a tilting table on a table saw
over
> a tilting
> > arbor?  I have not seen one in action, but on the surface, the
> tilting
> > tables look kind of dangerous.
> >
> > Just a question that has been bugging me for some time now...
> >
> > Cheers!
> >
> > Chip
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To access the group's archive without those pesky pop-ups, go to:
> http://discussion.oldwwmachines.com
>
> If you'd like to visit our Web page go to:
> http://www.owwm.com And as always, stay vigilant...
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>

HI Ala,
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Alan DuBoff
   To: oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 2:00 AM
   Subject: Re: [oldwwmachines] Re: Cleaning tables, there is always hope


   .Alan sed'

   "1) create a sling from webbing at REI, they have some pretty durable webbing
   that I think would handle 1700 lbs.

   2) have a sling fabricated out of cable, with an eye swag'd on.

   3) I've seen some for lifting slings at places like grainger, nothing that
   would work perfectly for me, but a few types. If I had two of these in 20
   foot lengths, I could wrap it under the entire saw and attach the loop ends
   on a chain hoist. Come to think of it a couple lengths of chain would
   probably do."



   Alan,

   I'm pretty much a bottom feeder, but there are some areas you should not cut
corners. Making slings is one of them. Go to McMaster Carr or Enco web site and
buy nylon chokers. Erase the name REI from your memory. We are talking
industrial rigging, said rigging to be lifting a load over your feet; not straps
for color coordinated backpacks. A choker has an eye (loop) in each end. Buy
longer than than you think you need. You can always make another wrap,. but they
are hard to stretch much. Buy them for a rated for a lifting load. Mine are a
pair of 2000 lb. A pair is much handier to work with.

   One thing I learned recently. If you get nylon chokers greasy handling some of
the OT metal machinery you can throw them in the washing machine and they come
out real nice. I dried them on the back porch rail. I took the precaution to do
this when SWMBO was going to be gone a long time. I ran a load of my work
clothes after the chokers to make sure I did'nt leave a blob of grease in the
washing machine.


   The only place I'd consider making a choker is one I have that is an
adjustable length of chain. Go to a decent hardware store. Buy proof chain of a
size and load rating you like. Then buy two grab hooks with a clevis made on the
hook. Simply bolt the grab hooks on the end of the chain (mine is 6') with the
clevis pins. For the non-riggers and non-loggers a grab hook will lock on a link
of chain. Thus you can put two eyes in your chain choker of any lengh you like.
Or you can use one grab hook and make a circle of any size within the limits of
the overall chain length.

   Last rule of rigging to always be observed - NEVER under any conditions get
UNDER the load.

   Bob Black putting away soapbox and going back to work
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

you are right, and it was said by the Captain...

Great episode, one of my favs

Gary
Cumberland, RI but Provincetown, MA right now about to get stormed!


----- Original Message -----
From: "Chip's Mail" <chip@...>
To: <oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 1:43 PM
Subject: RE: [oldwwmachines] Re: Tilting Tables


>I think it was the only episode that a four letter word was used too.
> "Let's get the hell out of here" - the last line of the movie.
>
> ObOWWM: Uh...can't really think of any right now....
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of GHP
> Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 1:27 PM
> To: oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [oldwwmachines] Re: Tilting Tables
>
>
> ahhh yes, I remember that one. Any movie involving time travel is tops for
> me...
>
> Gary
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chip's Mail" <chip@...>
> To: <oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 1:20 PM
> Subject: RE: [oldwwmachines] Re: Tilting Tables
>
>
>> Now THAT guy has talent!
>>
>> Good quality tools give advantage to any woodworker, to be sure...  But
>> it
>> seems to me that people with this gentleman's talent can make beautiful
>> items using "stone knives and bear skins" (to borrow a line from my
>> favorite
>> Star Trek episode...)
>>
>> Chip
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com
>> [mailto:oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Robert Vaughan
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 12:25 PM
>> To: oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [oldwwmachines] Re: Tilting Tables
>>
>>
>> What saw you've got and what you with that saw are two separate issues.
>>  Here's a site of a guy that's been using a tilt-table Delta 10" saw
>> since the late 70's.  Jake still has a matched set of 10 fingers.
>> If today's hobby woodworking magazine marketing hype were applied, the
>> ad would attempt to have you infer that UNLESS you have a tilting table
>> saw, you can't do this level of work :-)
>> http://www.jakecress.com/picture_gallery.htm
>>
>>
>> Bob Vaughan
>> Roanoke VA
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, July 4, 2006, at 11:06 AM, copaltree.home wrote:
>>
>>> --- In oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com, "Chip's Mail" <chip@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> Chip:
>>>
>>> I have used a Delta-Milwaukee 10 tilting table saw as my only saw
>>> for something approaching 30 years. Benefit is things like original
>>> cost (about $75 including stand & motor at a time when that was a
>>> lot of money to me)  [edit]> Hey Folks,
>>> >
>>> > I've been kinda working myself up to ask this...
>>> >
>>> > Is there any benefit to having a tilting table on a table saw over
>>> a tilting
>>> > arbor? I have not seen one in action, but on the surface, the
>>> tilting
>>> > tables look kind of dangerous.
>>> >
>>> > Just a question that has been bugging me for some time now...
>>> >
>>> > Cheers!
>>> >
>>> > Chip
>>> >
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> To access the group's archive without those pesky pop-ups, go to:
>> http://discussion.oldwwmachines.com
>>
>> If you'd like to visit our Web page go to:
>> http://www.owwm.com And as always, stay vigilant...
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> To access the group's archive without those pesky pop-ups, go to:
>> http://discussion.oldwwmachines.com
>>
>> If you'd like to visit our Web page go to:
>> http://www.owwm.com And as always, stay vigilant...
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> To access the group's archive without those pesky pop-ups, go to:
> http://discussion.oldwwmachines.com
>
> If you'd like to visit our Web page go to:
> http://www.owwm.com And as always, stay vigilant...
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To access the group's archive without those pesky pop-ups, go to:
> http://discussion.oldwwmachines.com
>
> If you'd like to visit our Web page go to:
> http://www.owwm.com And as always, stay vigilant...
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

--- In oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com, "copaltree.home"
<copaltree.home@...> wrote:
>
> --- In oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com, "Chip's Mail" <chip@> wrote:
>
> Chip:
>
> I agree with you about the straight edge and circular saw for sheet
> stock, that is what I do also.  When I cut anything long on the
> table saw I use a helper to catch it... obviously I don't make a
> living at this.
>
> And the first mishap is where respect is re-enforced !
>
>
> Have a safe and enjoyable 4th of July.
>
> Hugh
>
That was my trade-off - stick a lot'o arn in the shop, but don't
expect to maneuver sheet stock for ripping.  Involves some planning
ahead if cabinets are going to be built in the winter, but since I am
not a production shop, it tends to work out.  If the weather doesn't
cooperate so I can put the sheets on the picnic table for ripping with
a clamping straitedge and 1947 Model 77 Skil Saw(a hefty one, in its
own right), then I do something fun, like tear apart another machine
(no shortage of those).

Rich
Silver Spring, MD (jest gettin' in a message or two on the ol' Yahoo
before the big event)

Fine for the vertical members - "columns'

To surpport a 10,000 lb evenly distrubuted load on an 8' long horizontal member
would require an 8"x10" section, and a point load compared to evenly distributed
load is even worse.

If you go that route to  a lumber yard and get them to figure glue-lam beams and
be sure to tell them it is a point load. (most housing construction loads are
evenly distributed.)

Bob Black in Atlanta


   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Alan DuBoff
   To: oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 2:15 PM
   Subject: Re: [oldwwmachines] Re: Cleaning tables, there is always hope


   On Tuesday 04 July 2006 09:55 am, Bob Black wrote:
   > Here's how.

   Wow, thanks for such excellent info. Much appreciated.

   One comment.

   > A quick glance at an antique edition of Architectural Graphic Standards
   > shows max load of a 4x4 - 8' column is 10, 200 lbs.

   Seems the 4x4 mortised together would work in this case then. In a sense, to
   build one's own gantry crane out of 4x4 seems it would work, no? That was my
   original thinking.

   --

   Alan DuBoff - Software Orchestration
   GPG: 1024D/B7A9EBEE 5E00 57CD 5336 5E0B 288B 4126 0D49 0D99 B7A9 EBEE




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Six years and five days ago, our ma's brought forth upon the
internet the owwm,

conceived in brotherhood, and dedicated to the proposition that not
all iron was created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great data shift. . . testing whether that
group, or any group so  conceived and so dedicated. . . can long
endure.

We are met in the great cyberspace of that shift.

We have come to dedicate a portion of that space as the final
archive for those who here gave their opinions,
that the owwm group might live.

It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense,
we cannot de-rust. . . we cannot repaint. . .we cannot rucker
these machines.

The brave iron- and wood-heads, living and dead,
who posted here have done so,
and we have used our comments to add and detract.

The world will little note, nor long remember,
what we post here,
but this archive cannot forget what they wrote here.

It is for us the leaving, rather,
to be dedicated here to the unfinished work
which they who wrote here have thus far so nobly advanced.

It is rather for us to be here dedicated
to the great task remaining before us. . .

that from these honored machines we take increased
devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of
devotion. . .

that we here highly resolve that these machines
shall not have rusted in vain. . .

that this website, under God,
shall have a new birth of freedom. . .

and that group. . .
of the arn. . .by the owwm. . .for the people. . .
shall not perish from the internet.

--With apologies to Mr. Lincoln

So long Yahoo, it's been good to know you.  You have done your part in
this great endeavor that is OWWM.  It has come to the point that you
have outlived your usefulness. It is time to move on to bigger and
better things.

Time for a beer. Cheers.  See you in a couple hours over at the new digs.

-Ray Muno, celebrating YID, Yahoo Independence Day.

--- In oldwwmachines@yahoogroups.com, "Keith Bohn" <UnisawA100@...> wrote:
>

> DO NOT RE-REGISTER ON THE NEW FORUM. This will cause you to lose your
> post counts

My "post counts?"

Oh no, don't tell me that all of Lehman's jokes count as posts!

Rich
Silver Spring, MD

Just wanted to see if I could be the last Post

Hope not to offend anyone

The Old Woodworking Machines Group has left the building (Ok, just the
Yahoo! Groups building). We've moved on to greener pastures and larger
barns.

Please join us soon at our new home at http://www.owwm.org

While we make the final transition, please sit back and relax... the
new website should be available in a few hours. Stay tuned for more
instructions/details.


And as always, stay vigilant.

Just to give the concerned an update, there's no need to panic... the
new forum is still on the way. We ran into some last-minute Yahoo!
problems that will likely take a little longer. (Yahoo? Problems?
pfft!!)

Expect to be receiving your invitational email some time this evening.
What time exactly? There's no real way to predict at this moment. Just
realize it's being worked on, and you will be notified ASAP.


Thanks for the patience,
Tony

Come see the new home at:

http://owwm.org


"Hey, I was a member here... how do I log in over there??"
Due to technical difficulties with the mail server, the automagically
delivered emails with login information have not been sent. To get
logged in, click the following link:

http://www.owwm.org/profile.php?mode=sendpassword

When prompted, enter your old Yahoo! username and THIS email address.
If you cannot remember your username, or it plain out does not work,
please post a request in the following forum:

http://www.owwm.org/viewforum.php?f=2

Don't forget to include your name, email address and what you think
your username is!