The only sense I could put to the 416 alignment was not as a
long-distance route but for commuter traffic from the Barrhaven,
Kemptville, Spencerville direction.

I had thought that a line that went due south from the 417 and 7
interchange would be a start to an alignment.  It would have a
southern terminus fairly close to 137 and I-81.  It would have made
sense to basically extend I-81 as a 415 north to Ottawa.

Andrew in Renfrew

PS.  While about 30km longer, 17/417 to 416 to 401 to 137 is a faster
route than 17 to \29/ to 15 to \29/ to 401 to 137 in getting from
Renfrew to the Thousand Island Bridge.

On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 6:58 PM, stumack1 <stumack@...> wrote:
> On the contrary, I think studies for a "415" long predate the idea of the 416
as it was ultimately built.  When I worked for MTO (then MTC) in 1986, there
were a number of "415" alignment proposals posted in the front lobby of the
Eastern Region office in Kingston.
>
> While 16 was far easier to twin than 15 would have been, its southeasterly
direction and terminus at the relatively lightly travelled Prescott-Ogdensburg
bridge did little to address Toronto-Ottawa (or Kingston-Ottawa for that matter)
travel demand.  Witness the continued use of 7-37 as a preferred route. 416 has
never made much sense to me and IMO it wasn't needed.
>
> --- In ontroads@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew D. Taylor" <adt.cga@...> wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 7:30 PM, Chris <cbeach40@...> wrote:
>> > From what I've heard from MTO the currect speculation is that there is more
demand on the 15 corridor than on 7. There's more travel demand, and a lot of
work needs to be done to 15 anyway (bypasses and reconstruction). As such a
Carleton Place to Kingston freeway sounds a lot more likely than anything west
of Carleton Place along 7.
>> >
>> > That being said, that's just speculation and no studies have been done on
it. The speculation on that is well beyond any sort of real transportation
demand projections they're making at this time.
>>
>> Perhaps a 415 designation down that highway would be multiplexed up
>> freeway 7 between Carleton Place and 417, like 15 did in the past.
>> Such a route would become the preferred route from Ottawa to Toronto
>> as it would head south-west rather than the 416's south-east
>> direction.
>>
>> Andrew in Renfrew
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Thanks for participating in this group.  Check out the files section at
http://www.yahoogroups.com/groups/ontroads_files for new photos and documents
being uploaded by members regularly.Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Sorry, to clarify, no official plans have been announced or as far as I've been
told, recent studies done regarding building a new 15 alignment freeway. There
are so many factors that could be for or against that plan that haven't even
developed yet. So what happens will remain to be seen.

Those would certainly be some interesting plans, in a number of ways I wished
they'd built that.

--- In ontroads@yahoogroups.com, "stumack1" <stumack@...> wrote:
>
> On the contrary, I think studies for a "415" long predate the idea of the 416
as it was ultimately built.  When I worked for MTO (then MTC) in 1986, there
were a number of "415" alignment proposals posted in the front lobby of the
Eastern Region office in Kingston.
>

On the contrary, I think studies for a "415" long predate the idea of the 416 as
it was ultimately built.  When I worked for MTO (then MTC) in 1986, there were a
number of "415" alignment proposals posted in the front lobby of the Eastern
Region office in Kingston.

While 16 was far easier to twin than 15 would have been, its southeasterly
direction and terminus at the relatively lightly travelled Prescott-Ogdensburg
bridge did little to address Toronto-Ottawa (or Kingston-Ottawa for that matter)
travel demand.  Witness the continued use of 7-37 as a preferred route. 416 has
never made much sense to me and IMO it wasn't needed.

--- In ontroads@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew D. Taylor" <adt.cga@...> wrote:
>
> On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 7:30 PM, Chris <cbeach40@...> wrote:
> > From what I've heard from MTO the currect speculation is that there is more
demand on the 15 corridor than on 7. There's more travel demand, and a lot of
work needs to be done to 15 anyway (bypasses and reconstruction). As such a
Carleton Place to Kingston freeway sounds a lot more likely than anything west
of Carleton Place along 7.
> >
> > That being said, that's just speculation and no studies have been done on
it. The speculation on that is well beyond any sort of real transportation
demand projections they're making at this time.
>
> Perhaps a 415 designation down that highway would be multiplexed up
> freeway 7 between Carleton Place and 417, like 15 did in the past.
> Such a route would become the preferred route from Ottawa to Toronto
> as it would head south-west rather than the 416's south-east
> direction.
>
> Andrew in Renfrew
>

--- In ontroads@yahoogroups.com, "captainbeowulf" <beowulfr@...> wrote:
>
> Highway 7 is a strange one.

That's an understatement. I'm not going to go through the numbers
specifically (as that'll take too long), but that's spot-on.

> Sometimes it has extremely heavy traffic volumes when you wouldn't
expect it, and other times it has light traffic volumes when you would
expect it to be heavy.  I think it really gets a lot of recreational
traffic in the summer season - between the Victoria Day Weekend in May
and Canadian Thanksgiving in October.  AADT is probably not that high,
but SADT could be for certain stretches (especially Peterborough to
Havelock and Ottawa to Perth).
>
> I've also heard from some Ottawa people that 7 to 37 and 37 to 401 is
the preferred route to Toronto, rather than 15.  I know that, driving 7
over the years, a lot of traffic turns south down 37 as you drive west.
>

That's not surprising. Given the mess that is trying to get through
Smiths Falls I can see a fair number of drivers opting to go another
way.

Looking at the traffic data on those routes definitely seem accurate.
There isn't quite the same spikes you see on 15 as you do on 7- 15's
pretty consistent, while 7 sees spikes of nearly 50% between the winter
low and the summer high. Nor are the volumes particularly impressive on
15 itself. I think between the need to bypass Smiths Falls, geometric
improvements being needed on a lot of locations on 15 and the life cycle
of the roadway the opportunity is better to upgrade 15. So if anything,
the higher quality of 7, partially spurred by its higher traffic, may be
working against it now.

> If Norwood/Havelock/Marmora were bypassed, and the
Peterborough-Havelock section was made a 5 lane arterial, all to deal
with summer recreational traffic, it might unexpectedly cause more
through traffic to switch from 37 to 7.  This might then generate
further demand for improvements.
>

I think things will change a lot more once the 7 Ottawa freeway and 407
extension go in. We'll see what happens at that point but I think it's
going to change demands in ways that aren't really available to us right
now. Personally, I think there's no way there won't be a number of major
improvements to both the 7 and 15 corridors in the long term.

Chris

--- In ontroads@yahoogroups.com, i42 <interchange42@...> wrote:
>
> Captain: I agree with your analysis of the 407/115 situation.
>
> Further to a freeway extending from Peterborough to Ottawa... I drove
> 7 from Ottawa to Peterborough midday on the first Saturday of October.
> It was very, very quiet, in every way

Highway 7 is a strange one.  Sometimes it has extremely heavy traffic volumes
when you wouldn't expect it, and other times it has light traffic volumes when
you would expect it to be heavy.  I think it really gets a lot of recreational
traffic in the summer season - between the Victoria Day Weekend in May and
Canadian Thanksgiving in October.  AADT is probably not that high, but SADT
could be for certain stretches (especially Peterborough to Havelock and Ottawa
to Perth).

I've also heard from some Ottawa people that 7 to 37 and 37 to 401 is the
preferred route to Toronto, rather than 15.  I know that, driving 7 over the
years, a lot of traffic turns south down 37 as you drive west.

If Norwood/Havelock/Marmora were bypassed, and the Peterborough-Havelock section
was made a 5 lane arterial, all to deal with summer recreational traffic, it
might unexpectedly cause more through traffic to switch from 37 to 7.  This
might then generate further demand for improvements.

On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 7:30 PM, Chris <cbeach40@...> wrote:
> From what I've heard from MTO the currect speculation is that there is more
demand on the 15 corridor than on 7. There's more travel demand, and a lot of
work needs to be done to 15 anyway (bypasses and reconstruction). As such a
Carleton Place to Kingston freeway sounds a lot more likely than anything west
of Carleton Place along 7.
>
> That being said, that's just speculation and no studies have been done on it.
The speculation on that is well beyond any sort of real transportation demand
projections they're making at this time.

Perhaps a 415 designation down that highway would be multiplexed up
freeway 7 between Carleton Place and 417, like 15 did in the past.
Such a route would become the preferred route from Ottawa to Toronto
as it would head south-west rather than the 416's south-east
direction.

Andrew in Renfrew

From what I've heard from MTO the currect speculation is that there is more
demand on the 15 corridor than on 7. There's more travel demand, and a lot of
work needs to be done to 15 anyway (bypasses and reconstruction). As such a
Carleton Place to Kingston freeway sounds a lot more likely than anything west
of Carleton Place along 7.

That being said, that's just speculation and no studies have been done on it.
The speculation on that is well beyond any sort of real transportation demand
projections they're making at this time.


--- In ontroads@yahoogroups.com, "dunc1ca" <droutled@...> wrote:
>
> Today I noticed that km markers have been installed on Hwy 35/115 from km 0
(Hwy 401) up to the end of the concrete median at km 19.5 a few hundred metres
north of the Hwy 35 exit.  The markers are at 500 metre intervals.  It is still
missing km 4.5, 5.0, 5.5, and 16.0 because there is fencing on the median.
>


That sounds like a similar situation to when they put the markers on 403 a few
years ago. In that case the markers only went up to the SW-Central Region
boundary. In this case it's the Central-Eastern Region Boundary. I foresee
Eastern Region may be waiting to see what they'll do with the 407 before they
proceed on this.

Chris


--- In ontroads@yahoogroups.com, i42 <interchange42@...> wrote:
>
> Captain: I agree with your analysis of the 407/115 situation.
>
> Further to a freeway extending from Peterborough to Ottawa... I drove
> 7 from Ottawa to Peterborough midday on the first Saturday of October.
> It was very, very quiet, in every way, and therefore I would be very
> surprised if any of us are alive to see that reconstructed as a
> freeway as, yes, a 6 lane 401 to the 416 will be sufficient for years
> in terms of capacity (although sections through Kingston might warrant
> an 8 lane section at some point for example). One could really only
> argue that a Peterborough to Ottawa freeway could be justified in
> terms of creating network redundancy to handle traffic in case of a
> 401 emergency shutdown, and Ontario doesn't really do redundancy as
> there just aren't enough funds in the kitty.
>
> After this stretch of freeway 7 is completed from Kanata to Carleton
> Place, maybe we will eventually see some improvements as far as Perth,
> but even that I will consider an unexpected surprise: this province,
> as you said, has many more projects far higher in priority than an
> Ottawa - Peterborough freeway.
>
> i42
>
> On 21-Nov-09, at 3:04 PM, captainbeowulf wrote:
>
> > --- In ontroads@yahoogroups.com, "dunc1ca" <droutled@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Today I noticed that km markers have been installed on Hwy 35/115
> > from km 0 (Hwy 401) up to the end of the concrete median at km 19.5
> > a few hundred metres north of the Hwy 35 exit. The markers are at
> > 500 metre intervals. It is still missing km 4.5, 5.0, 5.5, and 16.0
> > because there is fencing on the median.
> > >
> > > I wonder if there are plans to continue the numbering to the end
> > of the 115 or if there are plans to number the exits along Hwy 115
> > like Hwy 403 was numbered a few years ago. Also, will the eventual
> > construction of Hwy 407 (completion 2013 last I heard) change
> > anything. I had always hoped that one day the 115 would be
> > renumbered 407 and extended along the Hwy 7 corridor to Ottawa.
> > >
> >
> > 407 was supposed to tie into 115 either at the current 35/115
> > interchange, which would have been rebuilt - likely into some sort
> > of cloverstack interchange - or later on (to avoid the Oak Ridges
> > Moraine) it would have hit 115 a few km's south of that interchange.
> > At that point, the plan was to rebuild that section of 115 from a
> > RIRO to a full freeway, which would have involved the removal of a
> > few gas stations and IIRC some sort of a trailer sales lot, plus
> > realignment (vertical and horizontal) within the existing corridor
> > and replacement of a couple of bridges (including at the 35
> > interchange).
> >
> > I believe you can still find the second iteration in the Technically
> > Preferred Route pdf from PICs 3 and 4 on the 407 East EA website.
> >
> > Since the government last year definitely decided that 407 East
> > would be a toll road, this has changed further. The eastern tail end
> > of 407 has been realigned further to meet 35/115 in a high-speed
> > trumpet. 407 East EA says this was done to avoid property impacts
> > and because of "constructibility" issues with the thorough rebuild
> > of 35/115 (maintaining traffic while tearing apart the whole road).
> > I would also suggest that it has to do with the tolling. Remember
> > the whole mess with the Freeman interchange in Burlington when "407
> > West" first opened? People from Hamilton and Burlington were
> > complaining that they were unintentionally end up on the 407, as
> > getting onto the QEW was like taking an exit. Extra lanes had to be
> > added onto the ramps to QEW/403, but 407 still exits from the left,
> > as if it was the mainline. Doubtless people from Peterborough would
> > be making the same complaint if the 407 was made the mainline route
> > from 115. So, the access to the toll highway will obviously be an
> > exit, not the mainline.
> >
> > This means that the 115 designation will be with us for the
> > indefinite future and the 407 designation will not head up the 115
> > to Peterborough. This might change one day if 407 becomes a non-toll
> > road, but for the time-being it won't. The situation looks awkward
> > to roadgeeks, but the constant confusion surrounding 407 and the ad
> > hoc series of decisions leading to it being a toll road have
> > disrupted the planned highway system elsewhere too. Obviously, the
> > western 24km of the highway was supposed to be 403, not 407. Not we
> > have a very awkward 403-QEW multiplex.
> >
> > I also believe that a highway (40)7 freeway from Peterborough to
> > Ottawa would be warranted, but given budget constraints and other
> > priorities, it's not likely to happen anytime soon. Twinning of
> > highways 11, 69, 17, and projects like the mid-peninsula highway,
> > gta west corridor, Kitchener-Guelph freeway, Windsor-Essex Parkway,
> > 404 extension, 427 extension, reconstruction/widening of 400 between
> > Toronto and Barrie, etc. etc. all seem to be higher on MTO's
> > priority list. That's enough work to absorb all the highway capital
> > budgets for the next decade at least.
> >
> > Also, widening 401 to 6 lanes continously through to the 416 should
> > be sufficient in the near/mid term. In the long term a 6-lane 401
> > plus a 4 lane highway 7 freeway may be needed, though.
> >
> >
> >
>

--- In ontroads@yahoogroups.com, "dunc1ca" <droutled@...> wrote:
>
> Today I noticed that km markers have been installed on Hwy 35/115 from km 0
(Hwy 401) up to the end of the concrete median at km 19.5 a few hundred metres
north of the Hwy 35 exit.  The markers are at 500 metre intervals.  It is still
missing km 4.5, 5.0, 5.5, and 16.0 because there is fencing on the median.
>
> I wonder if there are plans to continue the numbering to the end of the 115 or
if there are plans to number the exits along Hwy 115 like Hwy 403 was numbered a
few years ago.  Also, will the eventual construction of Hwy 407 (completion 2013
last I heard) change anything.  I had always hoped that one day the 115 would be
renumbered 407 and extended along the Hwy 7 corridor to Ottawa.
>

407 was supposed to tie into 115 either at the current 35/115 interchange, which
would have been rebuilt - likely into some sort of cloverstack interchange - or
later on (to avoid the Oak Ridges Moraine) it would have hit 115 a few km's
south of that interchange.  At that point, the plan was to rebuild that section
of 115 from a RIRO to a full freeway, which would have involved the removal of a
few gas stations and IIRC some sort of a trailer sales lot, plus realignment
(vertical and horizontal) within the existing corridor and replacement of a
couple of bridges (including at the 35 interchange).

I believe you can still find the second iteration in the Technically Preferred
Route pdf from PICs 3 and 4 on the 407 East EA website.

Since the government last year definitely decided that 407 East would be a toll
road, this has changed further.  The eastern tail end of 407 has been realigned
further to meet 35/115 in a high-speed trumpet.  407 East EA says this was done
to avoid property impacts and because of "constructibility" issues with the
thorough rebuild of 35/115 (maintaining traffic while tearing apart the whole
road).  I would also suggest that it has to do with the tolling.  Remember the
whole mess with the Freeman interchange in Burlington when "407 West" first
opened?  People from Hamilton and Burlington were complaining that they were
unintentionally end up on the 407, as getting onto the QEW was like taking an
exit.  Extra lanes had to be added onto the ramps to QEW/403, but 407 still
exits from the left, as if it was the mainline.  Doubtless people from
Peterborough would be making the same complaint if the 407 was made the mainline
route from 115.  So, the access to the toll highway will obviously be an exit,
not the mainline.

This means that the 115 designation will be with us for the indefinite future
and the 407 designation will not head up the 115 to Peterborough.  This might
change one day if 407 becomes a non-toll road, but for the time-being it won't. 
The situation looks awkward to roadgeeks, but the constant confusion surrounding
407 and the ad hoc series of decisions leading to it being a toll road have
disrupted the planned highway system elsewhere too.  Obviously, the western 24km
of the highway was supposed to be 403, not 407.  Not we have a very awkward
403-QEW multiplex.

I also believe that a highway (40)7 freeway from Peterborough to Ottawa would be
warranted, but given budget constraints and other priorities, it's not likely to
happen anytime soon.  Twinning of highways 11, 69, 17, and projects like the
mid-peninsula highway, gta west corridor, Kitchener-Guelph freeway,
Windsor-Essex Parkway, 404 extension, 427 extension, reconstruction/widening of
400 between Toronto and Barrie, etc. etc. all seem to be higher on MTO's
priority list.  That's enough work to absorb all the highway capital budgets for
the next decade at least.

Also, widening 401 to 6 lanes continously through to the 416 should be
sufficient in the near/mid term.  In the long term a 6-lane 401 plus a 4 lane
highway 7 freeway may be needed, though.

Today I noticed that km markers have been installed on Hwy 35/115 from km 0 (Hwy
401) up to the end of the concrete median at km 19.5 a few hundred metres north
of the Hwy 35 exit.  The markers are at 500 metre intervals.  It is still
missing km 4.5, 5.0, 5.5, and 16.0 because there is fencing on the median.

I wonder if there are plans to continue the numbering to the end of the 115 or
if there are plans to number the exits along Hwy 115 like Hwy 403 was numbered a
few years ago.  Also, will the eventual construction of Hwy 407 (completion 2013
last I heard) change anything.  I had always hoped that one day the 115 would be
renumbered 407 and extended along the Hwy 7 corridor to Ottawa.

--- In ontroads@yahoogroups.com, Steven Kohler <skohler1968@...> wrote:
>
> I'm disappointed at the improvements to traffic flow. I normally take the
> 407 from the 403 to Brock road each night to get home. I avoid the 403/410
> combo the the 407 due to the traffic backups. Wednesday night, I took the
> 403/410 combo to the 407 and the 410 was backed up to the 401. I would have
> figured that the extension would have atleast moved the traffic jam by a
> couple of miles.
>
> Steve
>

I don't drive into Brampton very often, but when I've been there my impression
has been that most of the traffic on the 410 is getting off south of Bovaird.  I
actually never hit a really bad jam at the old transition to Heart Lake road.  I
think 410 needs to be expanded to an ultimate 8 lanes + 2 HOV lanes south of
Bovaird to deal with this - the northern extension just handles future
development and bypasses the traffic lights on Hurontario in northern Brampton.

--- In ontroads@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <cbeach40@...> wrote:
>
>
> --- In ontroads@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Gurudata <guru@> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > I'm rather disappointed, frankly, at the way the 410 has been
> terminated.
>
> > This is going to be a mess to reconfigure when the next northward
>
> > extension happens, unless the exactly current Highway 10 alignment is
>
> > used.
>
> >
>
>
>
> I think it's practically guaranteed they'll do that. It's a
> pretty decent road as is and would require relatively little work to
> upgrade it to a RIRO or (more likely) a full freeway like highway 6
> running north from Hamilton. In any event, using the exiting
> right-of-way would likely be easier to accomplish politically than
> building a new route. Really, a local bypass of Caledon Village would
> pretty well be the only major thing you'd require as service roads
> or outright expropriation would be easily done along the rest of the
> route between the top of Brampton and Orangeville.
>
>

I'm surprised that the current widening went through Caledon village.  It really
would have been cheaper and less disruptive in the long run to design and build
a bypass from the start.  I guess that the project was ignored for a long time
though, and so MTO had to do something and didn't have the several years needed
to do the EA and acquire the ROW for a bypass in the near term.

I'm disappointed at the improvements to traffic flow. I normally take the 407 from the 403 to Brock road each night to get home. I avoid the 403/410 combo the the 407 due to the traffic backups. Wednesday night, I took the 403/410 combo to the 407 and the 410 was backed up to the 401. I would have figured that the extension would have atleast moved the traffic jam by a couple of miles.

Steve

On Nov 19, 2009 3:49 PM, "Chris" <cbeach40@...> wrote:

 

--- In ontroads@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Gurudata <guru@...> wrote: > > I'm rather disappointed, ...

I think it's practically guaranteed they'll do that. It's a pretty decent road as is and would require relatively little work to upgrade it to a RIRO or (more likely) a full freeway like highway 6 running north from Hamilton. In any event, using the exiting right-of-way would likely be easier to accomplish politically than building a new route. Really, a local bypass of Caledon Village would pretty well be the only major thing you'd require as service roads or outright expropriation would be easily done along the rest of the route between the top of Brampton and Orangeville.

  > > On Nov 16, 2009, brandonthegreatii was heard to say: >

> > Signage they use there is quite unusual in a way, the two end signs are gone from before obviously, you know the laughable ENDS/FINS sign, as it was originally. It has been replaced by a Mayfield Road advance sign, and exit only sign. But it is quite unusual that they label Valleywood Boulevard as the next exit. You think they would use something like Highway 10/Valleywood Boulevard or something. Because you drive further, and you get this, Highway 10 North or Valleywood Boulevard. There is NO SIGNAGE FOR AN IMPENDING TERMINUS, not even a Highway 410 Ends shield, which I haven't seen.

> >

 

Hopefully they'll get that fixed soon, but I think there doesn't need to be any real reference to 10 until you get to a 410 ENDS/10 NORTH assembly north of Valleywood. Directional signage really needs to be simple- you have a 1-2 second window to relay the information to the drivers, so only telling them what they really need to know is the best practice.

    > > Also unusual, that the speed limit through this area is 90km/h, both directions, the tur...

If the speed limit is 90 then I'd presume one of two things- either it's a transition between the 100 and 80 limits of 410 and 10 respectively (though that's unlikely, unnecessary and against standard MTO practices), but more so it probably is geometrically at a design speed of only 100 km/h. 100 would still be very forgiving, especially in a passenger car.

Chris

--- In ontroads@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Gurudata <guru@...> wrote:

>

> I'm rather disappointed, frankly, at the way the 410 has been terminated.

> This is going to be a mess to reconfigure when the next northward

> extension happens, unless the exactly current Highway 10 alignment is

> used.

>

I think it's practically guaranteed they'll do that. It's a pretty decent road as is and would require relatively little work to upgrade it to a RIRO or (more likely) a full freeway like highway 6 running north from Hamilton. In any event, using the exiting right-of-way would likely be easier to accomplish politically than building a new route. Really, a local bypass of Caledon Village would pretty well be the only major thing you'd require as service roads or outright expropriation would be easily done along the rest of the route between the top of Brampton and Orangeville.

>

> On Nov 16, 2009, brandonthegreatii was heard to say:

>

> > Signage they use there is quite unusual in a way, the two end signs are gone from before obviously, you know the laughable ENDS/FINS sign, as it was originally. It has been replaced by a Mayfield Road advance sign, and exit only sign. But it is quite unusual that they label Valleywood Boulevard as the next exit. You think they would use something like Highway 10/Valleywood Boulevard or something. Because you drive further, and you get this, Highway 10 North or Valleywood Boulevard. There is NO SIGNAGE FOR AN IMPENDING TERMINUS, not even a Highway 410 Ends shield, which I haven't seen.

> >

Hopefully they'll get that fixed soon, but I think there doesn't need to be any real reference to 10 until you get to a 410 ENDS/10 NORTH assembly north of Valleywood. Directional signage really needs to be simple- you have a 1-2 second window to relay the information to the drivers, so only telling them what they really need to know is the best practice.

> > Also unusual, that the speed limit through this area is 90km/h, both directions, the turns there are safe and nothing strong.

> >

If the speed limit is 90 then I'd presume one of two things- either it's a transition between the 100 and 80 limits of 410 and 10 respectively (though that's unlikely, unnecessary and against standard MTO practices), but more so it probably is geometrically at a design speed of only 100 km/h. 100 would still be very forgiving, especially in a passenger car.

Chris

--- In ontroads@yahoogroups.com, Greg Fox <gregmfox@...> wrote:
>
>
> So, you're saying the 4-lane section of 427 between Finch and Derry is
> a good idea or were you referring to the road surface? =)
>
> Greg

Yeah, the north end needs to be expanded.  But I was referring to surface,
signage, barriers, etc. - capacity issues aside, it's in good shape.

I think when the extension north to Major Mackenzie gets built we will see 6
regular lanes and 2 HOV lanes from the airport up to 407.

Hiho,

I took a drive on the new 410 extension on Monday night. The most striking
change is the way that Hurontario Street and Highway 10 are now severed
from each other. Hurontario becomes Valleywood, Highway 10 becomes the
410, and to get from one to the other in either direction requires the use
of ramps. I suspect that the Hurontario-to-10 ramp is going to see a LOT
of use...

I'm rather disappointed, frankly, at the way the 410 has been terminated.
This is going to be a mess to reconfigure when the next northward
extension happens, unless the exactly current Highway 10 alignment is
used.

I also have to assume that the signage and signals have not been completed
yet. Turning from Valleywood onto the 410 is a suicide turn, imo, without
a traffic light or at least a stop sign.

CU,
Andrew


On Nov 16, 2009, brandonthegreatii was heard to say:

> Yup, as of today, Highway 410 now goes from beyond Mayfield Road to directly
swing onto Highway 10. What about Highway 10 south of there you ask? Well it
turns into Valleywood Boulevard, where you must use a loop ramp to access
Highway 10 North.
>
> Signage they use there is quite unusual in a way, the two end signs are gone
from before obviously, you know the laughable ENDS/FINS sign, as it was
originally. It has been replaced by a Mayfield Road advance sign, and exit only
sign. But it is quite unusual that they label Valleywood Boulevard as the next
exit. You think they would use something like Highway 10/Valleywood Boulevard or
something. Because you drive further, and you get this, Highway 10 North or
Valleywood Boulevard. There is NO SIGNAGE FOR AN IMPENDING TERMINUS, not even a
Highway 410 Ends shield, which I haven't seen.
>
> Also unusual, that the speed limit through this area is 90km/h, both
directions, the turns there are safe and nothing strong. Also, as of yet, all
high mast lighting has not been erected but you can see easily that it is
planned to go up. So what next, RIRO of Hwy 10 maybe? Time will only tell the
future.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Thanks for participating in this group.  Check out the files section at
http://www.yahoogroups.com/groups/ontroads_files for new photos and documents
being uploaded by members regularly.Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 1:23 AM, captainbeowulf <beowulfr@...> wrote:
> You know, 427 is in pretty good shape now.  Just drove southbound on it
yesterday and a lot of the surface and tall wall/jersey barriers are finished
and all-new.  Pretty big change from the late 90s/early 2000s beaten up 427, and
the perpetually under construction 427 of the last few years.  Not sure how the
northbound lanes are...

So, you're saying the 4-lane section of 427 between Finch and Derry is
a good idea or were you referring to the road surface? =)

Greg

--- In ontroads@yahoogroups.com, Luke Usher <mad_dog333@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> In other news, the Gardiner WB ramp to the NB 427 Express has finally
reopened. The temporary ramp they were using to the 427 north collector lanes
has been cut off, and all traffic is being routed onto the old ramp.
>

You know, 427 is in pretty good shape now.  Just drove southbound on it
yesterday and a lot of the surface and tall wall/jersey barriers are finished
and all-new.  Pretty big change from the late 90s/early 2000s beaten up 427, and
the perpetually under construction 427 of the last few years.  Not sure how the
northbound lanes are...

> Speaking of designations, before the days of Highway 410, was Hwy 7 routed
along Brampton's Queen St and cosigned with Hwy 10/Hurontario up to Bovaird? I'm
really curious on that as it does make the most sense.
>

I believe this is correct.  It's a long time ago, and I was pretty little, but
I'm pretty sure that you can confirm it with some old maps.  IIRC Perly's GTA
map book used to have an info box recommending that you take Kennedy road to
Bovaird instead of the 10/7 multiplex on Hurontario.  I believe Perly's even had
this box in the early 90s, as they always seemed to be horribly out of date in
showing new highways like the 410, while MapArt always had the new highways
shown.

--- In ontroads@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew D. Taylor" <adt.cga@...> wrote:

> If you count 407-ETR, which is debatable, then there are five.
>
> Andrew in Renfrew

You're right, I forgot about that, I was counting the 407. I forgot the 403
earlier, so yah, Hurontario has the distinction of having FIVE exits on five
different freeways.

Speaking of designations, before the days of Highway 410, was Hwy 7 routed along
Brampton's Queen St and cosigned with Hwy 10/Hurontario up to Bovaird? I'm
really curious on that as it does make the most sense.

I was expecting to see a sign stating this when I passed Mayfield on the new
410. Perhaps one may show up. We can only hope.

Caledon

POPULATION XX XXX

1 INTERCHANGE

Lastly, I think we can guess, eventually someday, Rutherford/16th
Avenue/Bovaird, whatever you wanna call it, it's the same throughfare, will be
the next street to have FOUR exits from four different freeways....427 someday.

On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 6:37 PM, brandonthegreatii <bmpenney@...> wrote:
> You know as for curiosities, this would be the 400 series highway in Caledon,
yes, it may be half in brampton close to Hwy 10, but after it passes Mayfield it
is in Caledon.
>
> Another thing, Hurontario becomes the second street in the GTA to have FOUR
EXITS on FOUR DIFFERENT 400 SERIES HIGHWAYS. Only Highway 7 had that distinction
before, I think. We all like this kind of trivia on here.

If you count 407-ETR, which is debatable, then there are five.

Andrew in Renfrew

You know as for curiosities, this would be the 400 series highway in Caledon,
yes, it may be half in brampton close to Hwy 10, but after it passes Mayfield it
is in Caledon.

Another thing, Hurontario becomes the second street in the GTA to have FOUR
EXITS on FOUR DIFFERENT 400 SERIES HIGHWAYS. Only Highway 7 had that distinction
before, I think. We all like this kind of trivia on here.

Yup, as of today, Highway 410 now goes from beyond Mayfield Road to directly
swing onto Highway 10. What about Highway 10 south of there you ask? Well it
turns into Valleywood Boulevard, where you must use a loop ramp to access
Highway 10 North.

Signage they use there is quite unusual in a way, the two end signs are gone
from before obviously, you know the laughable ENDS/FINS sign, as it was
originally. It has been replaced by a Mayfield Road advance sign, and exit only
sign. But it is quite unusual that they label Valleywood Boulevard as the next
exit. You think they would use something like Highway 10/Valleywood Boulevard or
something. Because you drive further, and you get this, Highway 10 North or
Valleywood Boulevard. There is NO SIGNAGE FOR AN IMPENDING TERMINUS, not even a
Highway 410 Ends shield, which I haven't seen.

Also unusual, that the speed limit through this area is 90km/h, both directions,
the turns there are safe and nothing strong. Also, as of yet, all high mast
lighting has not been erected but you can see easily that it is planned to go
up. So what next, RIRO of Hwy 10 maybe? Time will only tell the future.

Nice to see more HOV lanes in the province. As well as more work done on the
widening of highway 7 outside of Carleton Place. This is one of those projects
that is long overdue and will be a nice to have once its done. Going back to Hwy
7, only if the MTO can get the "new" 7 between KW-Guelph underway and we can be
all set. Well almost as there is still a lot of projects badly needed in
Ontario. But since there is too many I wont bother listing them apart from the
404, 407, 410 (past Hwy 10), 427 extensions

Mark

PS...do you have any pictures of this segment of 7 from Carleton place to
Hazeldean Rd. As I just want to compare some from 2008 to see the differences :)

--- In ontroads@yahoogroups.com, "zygomaticos" <yahoo@...> wrote:
>
> The new HOV lanes on highway 417 between Eagleson/March and highway 416 opened
this morning.  I saw no vehicles using them:  they seem pretty useless in the
current configuration.  I imaging they will become more useful after the next
contract (extending them to the ScotiaBank Place exits at Terry Fox and
Colliseum).
>
> In other news, work is progressing well on the highway 7 twinning in western
Ottawa and eastern Lanark County.  The new structures at Dwyer Hill look kinda
retro, with rounded corners and impressed lines like the ones I remember from
the 1960s.  Upper Dwyer Hill road has been clsed for 2 weeks so the access ramps
could be constructed, and is scheduled to open tomorrow (November 14) at which
time all traffic on highway 7 will be rerouted onto the brand-spanking-new
eastbound carriageway on a new ROW.  Traffic from Upper Dwyer Hill and Dwyer
Hill roads will be rerouted via the south service road ("Golf Club Way") and the
WB-NB offramp through a temporary signalized intersection east of the original,
and traffic on Ashton Station road will be rerouted via Overpass road and a new
South Service Road to a new temporary signalized intersection at Overpass road. 
The current highway 7 WB carriageway and existing highway will be closed for
realignment and replacement of the former CPR overpass near Ashton Station. 
Ashton Station Road between Ashton and Ashton Station will be closed for
construction of the new approach roads.
>
> The new North and South Service Roads east of Carleton Place openend last week
and private entrace accesses to highway 7 have been severed.
>

The new HOV lanes on highway 417 between Eagleson/March and highway 416 opened
this morning.  I saw no vehicles using them:  they seem pretty useless in the
current configuration.  I imaging they will become more useful after the next
contract (extending them to the ScotiaBank Place exits at Terry Fox and
Colliseum).

In other news, work is progressing well on the highway 7 twinning in western
Ottawa and eastern Lanark County.  The new structures at Dwyer Hill look kinda
retro, with rounded corners and impressed lines like the ones I remember from
the 1960s.  Upper Dwyer Hill road has been clsed for 2 weeks so the access ramps
could be constructed, and is scheduled to open tomorrow (November 14) at which
time all traffic on highway 7 will be rerouted onto the brand-spanking-new
eastbound carriageway on a new ROW.  Traffic from Upper Dwyer Hill and Dwyer
Hill roads will be rerouted via the south service road ("Golf Club Way") and the
WB-NB offramp through a temporary signalized intersection east of the original,
and traffic on Ashton Station road will be rerouted via Overpass road and a new
South Service Road to a new temporary signalized intersection at Overpass road. 
The current highway 7 WB carriageway and existing highway will be closed for
realignment and replacement of the former CPR overpass near Ashton Station. 
Ashton Station Road between Ashton and Ashton Station will be closed for
construction of the new approach roads.

The new North and South Service Roads east of Carleton Place openend last week
and private entrace accesses to highway 7 have been severed.

Here's some more information, including a bit more detail on the timeline for
the centres between Windsor and London.
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2009/11/10/11693216-sun.html

Also, it makes sense but until reading that I never realized how much of an
impact those places have in terms of employment.

--- In ontroads@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Gurudata <guru@...> wrote:
>
> Hiho,
>
> On Nov 8, 2009, Stephane Dumas was heard to say:
> > But there some
> > plans to add additionnal services center at some Quebec autoroutes 
> >
http://www.mtq.gouv.qc.ca/portal/page/portal/grand_public/vehicules_promenade/re\
seau_routier/haltes/aires
> > here a rendered pic of how the planned service center at Rigaud will look
> >
http://www.mtq.gouv.qc.ca/portal/page/portal/Librairie/Images/Fr/reseau_routier/\
haltes/aires/rigaud_900.jpg
>
> St Hubert at rest stops? Mmmmmm... Lucky Quebec drivers. :)
>
> CU,
> Andrew
>

Hiho,

On Nov 8, 2009, Stephane Dumas was heard to say:
> But there some
> plans to add additionnal services center at some Quebec autoroutes 
>
http://www.mtq.gouv.qc.ca/portal/page/portal/grand_public/vehicules_promenade/re\
seau_routier/haltes/aires
> here a rendered pic of how the planned service center at Rigaud will look
>
http://www.mtq.gouv.qc.ca/portal/page/portal/Librairie/Images/Fr/reseau_routier/\
haltes/aires/rigaud_900.jpg

St Hubert at rest stops? Mmmmmm... Lucky Quebec drivers. :)

CU,
Andrew