Henrik,

Thank you for sharing your knowledge with me/us. As I indicated in my previous
e-mail, I am new at this (PM) and your inputs have really got me thinking.

I am in the process of winding up the 2004/2005 (1 April to 31 Mar) PM cycle and
will most certainly inform everybody of my success rate... I am also in the
process of implementing the 2005/2006 cycle.

It is the third year that the Department is using the new method of PM and as
indicated previously we have continuous training sessions. I think the main
problem is that line managers are not interested in PM as they are of the
opinion that it is an HR issue, presumably not important to spend time on. They
most definitely need to change their behavior. I am positive that they don't
understand the benefit of the system.

Kind regards

Carl

>>> Henrik.Andersen@... 2005/02/01 12:12:03 >>>


Hi Carl and the other participants in this discussion string,
I work as a management consultant focusing on corporate performance management.
I obviously agree with Edna's point on the importance of clarifying corporate,
function and unit goals and objectives as a starting point for identifying
personal contributions to the achievement of these. We often see how lack of
clarity in lead impede agreement of relevant performance indicators and targets
for monitoring the degree to which such personal contributions are made. I also
agree with Kim's comments on the behavioural aspect and I believe that is where
you have to look for the course of what is really going on. Yes, you can 'force'
people to do stuff using a combination of sticks and carrots (good appraisal,
bad appraisal, bonus and no bonus) at least when you have ensured that people
are indeed able to control the outcome for which they are being rewarded or
punished, but there is a limit to how much you can bribe/threaten people into
doing. If they don't really see the point of doing the exercise in the first
place, I don't think you will get much out rewarding managers for sending you
the signed forms apart from the fact that you and they will all get your
rewards. Sadly though, the Department/organisation is unlikely to achieve
significantly better results and develop better employees, which I assume is the
overall aim with the appraisal scheme, if participants are just going through
the motions in order to get their bonus. In that case they would be unlikely to
care much about the quality of the system and the effectiveness of the whole
appraisal programme is likely to suffer.  If the managers don't do their
appraisals, they clearly don't find them sufficiently important to spend time
on. You have to find out why that is; e.g. the system is flawed, they don't know
how to use the system, they feel uncomfortable with the whole notion of
face-to-face evaluation or they just don't believe in/understand the potential
benefit of the system.

As an example of why the kind of behaviour you describe could perhaps be
symptoms of a bigger problem let me refer to my wife's situation in a government
department here in Norway. The Department has been using annual appraisals for
some time now, but nobody really cares nor believes in the system. It is of no
practical consequence to people's careers nor salaries anyway. That means, you
see people who clearly fail in delivering  against their performance and/or
personal development targets while others exceed them. When it comes to
promotion and other types of career developments also influencing salary levels,
the underperformers move ahead because they have better social/political
networks than the good performers. That type of culture driven management
behaviour undermines the whole appraisal system and everybody knows it is a
joke, but goes through with it anyway. The losers are the good performers who
get increasingly dissuaded to continue performing well, the Department and
ultimately the Norwegian tax payers. Now the Norwegian Minister for
Modernisation is talking about introducing pay for performance in the Norwegian
public sector, but unless something is done about the 'back slapping buddy
culture' undermining the performance management and appraisal system I fail to
see how pay for performance is going to do more than add to the frustration of
good performers.

This might be starting a new and bigger discussion about cultural barriers to
effective performance management in public sector, which we can take separately,
but my key point is that you need to work out why your fellow managers' fail to
use the system.

Regards,

Henrik V. Andersen
Senior Consultant

2GC Limited
Mobile: +47 45 63 43 90
Phone: +47 66 78 34 18
Web: www.2gc.co.uk
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Henrik V. Andersen
Senior Consultant

2GC Limited
Mobile: +47 45 63 43 90
Phone: +47 66 78 34 18
Web: www.2gc.com.au
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Kim Parks
   To: perfmgt2@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 2:25 AM
   Subject: Re: [perfmgt2] Re: Staff performance management



   Hi Carl,

   While I agree with Edna's comments below, a believe a more fundamental
   behavioural principle must be satisfied before her suggestions will be
   optimally effective (perhaps Edna took this to be a given, but I'll outline
   it anyway).

   People will not change their behaviour unless there is some consequence of
   enough personal value to them to motivate them to change. Your action in
   contacting this group is an example of this basic behavioural principle.
   That is, You are concerned that you will continue to be rated negatively if
   this issue is not addressed (i.e. the potential consequence which is of
   value or importance to you), so you have asked for the group's suggestions
   (i.e. your subsequent behaviour/action to hopefully avoid that potential
   negative consequence). I believe that, if you find out what your line
   managers value (be it avoidance of a negative consequence, or achievement
   of a positive consequence) and link that consequence to the submission of
   PM reports, you will achieve the result you are looking for. Do their own
   performance ratings depend partly on the submission of appraisals of their
   subordinates? Do Line Managers' own performance ratings have an impact on
   their pay (or other desirable conditions of employment)?

   While I find the above principle to be true, it must also be remembered
   that it only works reliably when the person who is subject to the
   consequence has some control over whether they can achieve it or avoid it
   (whichever is the desired outcome). For example, if your performance rating
   depends partly on whether Line Managers submit their Team member's
   appraisals to you, but your employer gives you no power to enforce this
   requirement, you will lose the motivation to address it - obviously because
   there is no way under your control that enables you to do so. Many
   businesses make the mistake of rating their employees on factors out of
   their control, and hence suffer inevitable low morale and turnover.
   Sometimes, as a result of this, such businesses "throw the baby out with
   the bath water", by discarding good practices (like those suggested by
   Edna) because they failed to acknowledge a basic behavioural principle.

   Hope this helps your thinking.

   Regards,

   Kim (Perth, Western Australia).

   At 08:14 AM 31/01/2005 +0200, you wrote:


   >** High Priority **
   >
   >Hi Edna,
   >
   >My name is Carl Marx, (not joking). Thanks for sharing your knowledge with
us.
   >
   >I am employed in the government sector. The issue of performance
   >management has been added to my portfolio only recently. I do have an good
   >understanding of pm.  I work for the Department of Transport and Public
   >Works in the Western Cape province of South Africa, stationed in Cape Town.
   >
   >The Departments job descriptions etc are in place and they are aligned to
   >the departments goals and objectives and they are reviewed annually or
   >when the need arises but definitely every 3 years as prescribed by the
   >Minister.
   >I  manage the pm process for the Department there are plus minus 1600
   >employees in the department reporting to their various
   >supervisors/managers etc. Once the supervisors have held their quarterly
   >review sessions, they need to supply me with proof as well as copies of
   >the staffs Individual Performance development Plans (IPDP) Both parties
   >need to sign the document. This is a control method that was put in place
   >to ensure that they did however hold the review sessions.   I keep a data
   >base of all the IPDP's  received. At the end of a 12 month cycle, staff
   >who performed according to various standards set qualify to receive a
   >performance bonus.  I need proof that all 4 quarterly review sessions were
   >held as well as  a copy of the rating Instrument (a document used to rate
   >each individual) only theater can I payout their performance bonuses.
   >
   >My problem is the reluctance of line managers to submit their required
   >documents as well as to conduct review sessions (4x review session plus an
   >rating instrument) timeoulsy in order for to process them.  What measures
   >can I put in place to ensure that I receive all documents. I send out
   >reminder letters, conduct information sessions throughout the year but
   >still they do not cooperate. I get rated negatively as result of staff not
   >cooperating although I feel that I have done my part by sending out
   >various reminders etc.
   >
   >Please pardon any grammatical errors as English is my second language.
   >Afrikaans is my first language, it is only spoken in South Africa.
   >
   >Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
   >
   >Kind regards
   >
   >Carl
   >
   >
   > >>> ecolon02@... 2005/01/29 01:09:37 >>>
   >
   >İlkay,
   >
   >
   >Nice meeting you. My name is Edna Colon I have been in a leadership role
   >creating, training, coaching and evaluating performance for over 30 years.
   >First, performance measurement methods are unique to the organization's
   >settings. Second, you need to have in placed the company's goals and
   >objectives. These goals and objectives must have cleared direction for the
   >individual and the group. Each individual/group has job responsibilities
   >assigned and he/she is responsible to meet the goals and objectives that
   >would help get to the company's goals and objectives.
   >
   >
   >
   >However, I suggest creating or reviewing job descriptions to determine
   >each job's expectations and responsibilities. Also, make sure that the job
   >descriptions in place are the most current. Since these documents are
   >considered working documents. Please note each job has specific tasks that
   >must be accomplished to be effective and efficient. Now, having provided
   >this information it is important to understand the tasks involve and what
   >is expected to meet the bottom line results.
   >
   >
   >For example, I need to have reports done up to and including the 31 and
   >they need to be on my desk by the second of every month for reviewing and
   >planning new strategies for the following month. If these report get to
   >your desk on the 10th of each month and it takes five days to set-up the
   >new strategy, guess what half of the month is gone.
   >
   >I hope this helps, please feel free to submit questions.
   >
   >Edna
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >ilkay canakkalelioglu <ilkay_firstmoon@...> wrote:
   >
   >Hi to all!
   >
   >I am İlkay Çanakkalelioğlu (I just joined the group). I am working in an
   >information technologies company. Our staff is about 250 people . I am new
   >at these performance management issues and I'd like to learn which method
   >to use, how to choose and implement? If anyone having recommendation
   >either about staff (individual/group) performance measurement methods (for
   >it sector) or any resource to read (especially something free on the
   >internet), I will be appreciated.
   >
   >Best regards,
   >İlkay Çanakkalelioğlu
   >Industrial Engineer
   >TURKEY
   >
   >
   >
   >__________________________________________________
   >Do You Yahoo!?
   >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
   >http://mail.yahoo.com
   >
   >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >Yahoo! Groups Links
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >---------------------------------
   >Do you Yahoo!?
   >  Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
   >
   >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >Yahoo! Groups Links
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >Yahoo! Groups Links
   >
   >
   >
   >


   Kim Parks
   Manager Human Resource Services


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Yahoo! Groups Links

Edna,

Thank you, you're a star.

The group is wonderful I have had a few replies and they all got  me thinking, I
am so excited.

Kind regards


Carl

>>> ecolon02@... 2005/02/01 02:37:12 >>>


Carl,

Give me a couple of days to get back to you I need to look for a sample that can
help you....make it easier and please do not worry about your grammar--I speak
Spanish and I know how hard it is

Edna


Carl Marx <csmarx@...> wrote:


** High Priority **

Hi Edna,

My name is Carl Marx, (not joking). Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.

I am employed in the government sector. The issue of performance management has
been added to my portfolio only recently. I do have an good understanding of pm.
I work for the Department of Transport and Public Works in the Western Cape
province of South Africa, stationed in Cape Town.

The Departments job descriptions etc are in place and they are aligned to the
departments goals and objectives and they are reviewed annually or when the need
arises but definitely every 3 years as prescribed by the Minister.
I manage the pm process for the Department there are plus minus 1600 employees
in the department reporting to their various supervisors/managers etc. Once the
supervisors have held their quarterly review sessions, they need to supply me
with proof as well as copies of the staffs Individual Performance development
Plans (IPDP) Both parties need to sign the document. This is a control method
that was put in place to ensure that they did however hold the review sessions.
I keep a data base of all the IPDP's received. At the end of a 12 month cycle,
staff who performed according to various standards set qualify to receive a
performance bonus. I need proof that all 4 quarterly review sessions were held
as well as a copy of the rating Instrument (a document used to rate each
individual) only theater can I payout their performance bonuses.

My problem is the reluctance of line managers to submit their required documents
as well as to conduct review sessions (4x review session plus an rating
instrument) timeoulsy in order for to process them. What measures can I put in
place to ensure that I receive all documents. I send out reminder letters,
conduct information sessions throughout the year but still they do not
cooperate. I get rated negatively as result of staff not cooperating although I
feel that I have done my part by sending out various reminders etc.

Please pardon any grammatical errors as English is my second language. Afrikaans
is my first language, it is only spoken in South Africa.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Kind regards

Carl


>>> ecolon02@... 2005/01/29 01:09:37 >>>

İlkay,


Nice meeting you. My name is Edna Colon I have been in a leadership role
creating, training, coaching and evaluating performance for over 30 years.
First, performance measurement methods are unique to the organization's
settings. Second, you need to have in placed the company's goals and objectives.
These goals and objectives must have cleared direction for the individual and
the group. Each individual/group has job responsibilities assigned and he/she is
responsible to meet the goals and objectives that would help get to the
company's goals and objectives.



However, I suggest creating or reviewing job descriptions to determine each
job's expectations and responsibilities. Also, make sure that the job
descriptions in place are the most current. Since these documents are considered
working documents. Please note each job has specific tasks that must be
accomplished to be effective and efficient. Now, having provided this
information it is important to understand the tasks involve and what is expected
to meet the bottom line results.


For example, I need to have reports done up to and including the 31 and they
need to be on my desk by the second of every month for reviewing and planning
new strategies for the following month. If these report get to your desk on the
10th of each month and it takes five days to set-up the new strategy, guess what
half of the month is gone.

I hope this helps, please feel free to submit questions.

Edna




ilkay canakkalelioglu wrote:

Hi to all!

I am İlkay Çanakkalelioğlu (I just joined the group). I am working in an
information technologies company. Our staff is about 250 people . I am new at
these performance management issues and I'd like to learn which method to use,
how to choose and implement? If anyone having recommendation either about staff
(individual/group) performance measurement methods (for it sector) or any
resource to read (especially something free on the internet), I will be
appreciated.

Best regards,
İlkay Çanakkalelioğlu
Industrial Engineer
TURKEY



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Groups Links









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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








Yahoo! Groups Links

Hi Carl and the other participants in this discussion string,
I work as a management consultant focusing on corporate performance management.
I obviously agree with Edna's point on the importance of clarifying corporate,
function and unit goals and objectives as a starting point for identifying
personal contributions to the achievement of these. We often see how lack of
clarity in lead impede agreement of relevant performance indicators and targets
for monitoring the degree to which such personal contributions are made. I also
agree with Kim's comments on the behavioural aspect and I believe that is where
you have to look for the course of what is really going on. Yes, you can 'force'
people to do stuff using a combination of sticks and carrots (good appraisal,
bad appraisal, bonus and no bonus) at least when you have ensured that people
are indeed able to control the outcome for which they are being rewarded or
punished, but there is a limit to how much you can bribe/threaten people into
doing. If they don't really see the point of doing the exercise in the first
place, I don't think you will get much out rewarding managers for sending you
the signed forms apart from the fact that you and they will all get your
rewards. Sadly though, the Department/organisation is unlikely to achieve
significantly better results and develop better employees, which I assume is the
overall aim with the appraisal scheme, if participants are just going through
the motions in order to get their bonus. In that case they would be unlikely to
care much about the quality of the system and the effectiveness of the whole
appraisal programme is likely to suffer.  If the managers don't do their
appraisals, they clearly don't find them sufficiently important to spend time
on. You have to find out why that is; e.g. the system is flawed, they don't know
how to use the system, they feel uncomfortable with the whole notion of
face-to-face evaluation or they just don't believe in/understand the potential
benefit of the system.

As an example of why the kind of behaviour you describe could perhaps be
symptoms of a bigger problem let me refer to my wife's situation in a government
department here in Norway. The Department has been using annual appraisals for
some time now, but nobody really cares nor believes in the system. It is of no
practical consequence to people's careers nor salaries anyway. That means, you
see people who clearly fail in delivering  against their performance and/or
personal development targets while others exceed them. When it comes to
promotion and other types of career developments also influencing salary levels,
the underperformers move ahead because they have better social/political
networks than the good performers. That type of culture driven management
behaviour undermines the whole appraisal system and everybody knows it is a
joke, but goes through with it anyway. The losers are the good performers who
get increasingly dissuaded to continue performing well, the Department and
ultimately the Norwegian tax payers. Now the Norwegian Minister for
Modernisation is talking about introducing pay for performance in the Norwegian
public sector, but unless something is done about the 'back slapping buddy
culture' undermining the performance management and appraisal system I fail to
see how pay for performance is going to do more than add to the frustration of
good performers.

This might be starting a new and bigger discussion about cultural barriers to
effective performance management in public sector, which we can take separately,
but my key point is that you need to work out why your fellow managers' fail to
use the system.

Regards,

Henrik V. Andersen
Senior Consultant

2GC Limited
Mobile: +47 45 63 43 90
Phone: +47 66 78 34 18
Web: www.2gc.co.uk
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Henrik V. Andersen
Senior Consultant

2GC Limited
Mobile: +47 45 63 43 90
Phone: +47 66 78 34 18
Web: www.2gc.com.au
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Kim Parks
   To: perfmgt2@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 2:25 AM
   Subject: Re: [perfmgt2] Re: Staff performance management



   Hi Carl,

   While I agree with Edna's comments below, a believe a more fundamental
   behavioural principle must be satisfied before her suggestions will be
   optimally effective (perhaps Edna took this to be a given, but I'll outline
   it anyway).

   People will not change their behaviour unless there is some consequence of
   enough personal value to them to motivate them to change. Your action in
   contacting this group is an example of this basic behavioural principle.
   That is, You are concerned that you will continue to be rated negatively if
   this issue is not addressed (i.e. the potential consequence which is of
   value or importance to you), so you have asked for the group's suggestions
   (i.e. your subsequent behaviour/action to hopefully avoid that potential
   negative consequence). I believe that, if you find out what your line
   managers value (be it avoidance of a negative consequence, or achievement
   of a positive consequence) and link that consequence to the submission of
   PM reports, you will achieve the result you are looking for. Do their own
   performance ratings depend partly on the submission of appraisals of their
   subordinates? Do Line Managers' own performance ratings have an impact on
   their pay (or other desirable conditions of employment)?

   While I find the above principle to be true, it must also be remembered
   that it only works reliably when the person who is subject to the
   consequence has some control over whether they can achieve it or avoid it
   (whichever is the desired outcome). For example, if your performance rating
   depends partly on whether Line Managers submit their Team member's
   appraisals to you, but your employer gives you no power to enforce this
   requirement, you will lose the motivation to address it - obviously because
   there is no way under your control that enables you to do so. Many
   businesses make the mistake of rating their employees on factors out of
   their control, and hence suffer inevitable low morale and turnover.
   Sometimes, as a result of this, such businesses "throw the baby out with
   the bath water", by discarding good practices (like those suggested by
   Edna) because they failed to acknowledge a basic behavioural principle.

   Hope this helps your thinking.

   Regards,

   Kim (Perth, Western Australia).

   At 08:14 AM 31/01/2005 +0200, you wrote:


   >** High Priority **
   >
   >Hi Edna,
   >
   >My name is Carl Marx, (not joking). Thanks for sharing your knowledge with
us.
   >
   >I am employed in the government sector. The issue of performance
   >management has been added to my portfolio only recently. I do have an good
   >understanding of pm.  I work for the Department of Transport and Public
   >Works in the Western Cape province of South Africa, stationed in Cape Town.
   >
   >The Departments job descriptions etc are in place and they are aligned to
   >the departments goals and objectives and they are reviewed annually or
   >when the need arises but definitely every 3 years as prescribed by the
   >Minister.
   >I  manage the pm process for the Department there are plus minus 1600
   >employees in the department reporting to their various
   >supervisors/managers etc. Once the supervisors have held their quarterly
   >review sessions, they need to supply me with proof as well as copies of
   >the staffs Individual Performance development Plans (IPDP) Both parties
   >need to sign the document. This is a control method that was put in place
   >to ensure that they did however hold the review sessions.   I keep a data
   >base of all the IPDP's  received. At the end of a 12 month cycle, staff
   >who performed according to various standards set qualify to receive a
   >performance bonus.  I need proof that all 4 quarterly review sessions were
   >held as well as  a copy of the rating Instrument (a document used to rate
   >each individual) only theater can I payout their performance bonuses.
   >
   >My problem is the reluctance of line managers to submit their required
   >documents as well as to conduct review sessions (4x review session plus an
   >rating instrument) timeoulsy in order for to process them.  What measures
   >can I put in place to ensure that I receive all documents. I send out
   >reminder letters, conduct information sessions throughout the year but
   >still they do not cooperate. I get rated negatively as result of staff not
   >cooperating although I feel that I have done my part by sending out
   >various reminders etc.
   >
   >Please pardon any grammatical errors as English is my second language.
   >Afrikaans is my first language, it is only spoken in South Africa.
   >
   >Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
   >
   >Kind regards
   >
   >Carl
   >
   >
   > >>> ecolon02@... 2005/01/29 01:09:37 >>>
   >
   >İlkay,
   >
   >
   >Nice meeting you. My name is Edna Colon I have been in a leadership role
   >creating, training, coaching and evaluating performance for over 30 years.
   >First, performance measurement methods are unique to the organization's
   >settings. Second, you need to have in placed the company's goals and
   >objectives. These goals and objectives must have cleared direction for the
   >individual and the group. Each individual/group has job responsibilities
   >assigned and he/she is responsible to meet the goals and objectives that
   >would help get to the company's goals and objectives.
   >
   >
   >
   >However, I suggest creating or reviewing job descriptions to determine
   >each job's expectations and responsibilities. Also, make sure that the job
   >descriptions in place are the most current. Since these documents are
   >considered working documents. Please note each job has specific tasks that
   >must be accomplished to be effective and efficient. Now, having provided
   >this information it is important to understand the tasks involve and what
   >is expected to meet the bottom line results.
   >
   >
   >For example, I need to have reports done up to and including the 31 and
   >they need to be on my desk by the second of every month for reviewing and
   >planning new strategies for the following month. If these report get to
   >your desk on the 10th of each month and it takes five days to set-up the
   >new strategy, guess what half of the month is gone.
   >
   >I hope this helps, please feel free to submit questions.
   >
   >Edna
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >ilkay canakkalelioglu <ilkay_firstmoon@...> wrote:
   >
   >Hi to all!
   >
   >I am İlkay Çanakkalelioğlu (I just joined the group). I am working in an
   >information technologies company. Our staff is about 250 people . I am new
   >at these performance management issues and I'd like to learn which method
   >to use, how to choose and implement? If anyone having recommendation
   >either about staff (individual/group) performance measurement methods (for
   >it sector) or any resource to read (especially something free on the
   >internet), I will be appreciated.
   >
   >Best regards,
   >İlkay Çanakkalelioğlu
   >Industrial Engineer
   >TURKEY
   >
   >
   >
   >__________________________________________________
   >Do You Yahoo!?
   >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
   >http://mail.yahoo.com
   >
   >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >Yahoo! Groups Links
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >---------------------------------
   >Do you Yahoo!?
   >  Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
   >
   >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >Yahoo! Groups Links
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >Yahoo! Groups Links
   >
   >
   >
   >


   Kim Parks
   Manager Human Resource Services


   ----------
   Lifeline WA - Where Care Overcomes Time & Distance
   ABN:                    43 517 756 699
   Street Address: 57 Murray Street, Perth WA 6000
   Postal Address: GPO Box K765, Perth WA 6842
   Telephone:              (08) 9261 4461
   Facsimile:              (08) 9421 1247

   Lifeline WA relies on financial support from the community.
   To make a donation please visit www.lifelinewa.org.au or phone 1300 855 556

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Carl,

Give me a couple of days to get back to you I need to look for a sample that can
help you....make it easier and please do not worry about your grammar--I speak
Spanish and I know how hard it is

Edna


Carl Marx <csmarx@...> wrote:


** High Priority **

Hi Edna,

My name is Carl Marx, (not joking). Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.

I am employed in the government sector. The issue of performance management has
been added to my portfolio only recently. I do have an good understanding of pm.
I work for the Department of Transport and Public Works in the Western Cape
province of South Africa, stationed in Cape Town.

The Departments job descriptions etc are in place and they are aligned to the
departments goals and objectives and they are reviewed annually or when the need
arises but definitely every 3 years as prescribed by the Minister.
I manage the pm process for the Department there are plus minus 1600 employees
in the department reporting to their various supervisors/managers etc. Once the
supervisors have held their quarterly review sessions, they need to supply me
with proof as well as copies of the staffs Individual Performance development
Plans (IPDP) Both parties need to sign the document. This is a control method
that was put in place to ensure that they did however hold the review sessions.
I keep a data base of all the IPDP's received. At the end of a 12 month cycle,
staff who performed according to various standards set qualify to receive a
performance bonus. I need proof that all 4 quarterly review sessions were held
as well as a copy of the rating Instrument (a document used to rate each
individual) only theater can I payout their performance bonuses.

My problem is the reluctance of line managers to submit their required documents
as well as to conduct review sessions (4x review session plus an rating
instrument) timeoulsy in order for to process them. What measures can I put in
place to ensure that I receive all documents. I send out reminder letters,
conduct information sessions throughout the year but still they do not
cooperate. I get rated negatively as result of staff not cooperating although I
feel that I have done my part by sending out various reminders etc.

Please pardon any grammatical errors as English is my second language. Afrikaans
is my first language, it is only spoken in South Africa.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Kind regards

Carl


>>> ecolon02@... 2005/01/29 01:09:37 >>>

İlkay,


Nice meeting you. My name is Edna Colon I have been in a leadership role
creating, training, coaching and evaluating performance for over 30 years.
First, performance measurement methods are unique to the organization's
settings. Second, you need to have in placed the company's goals and objectives.
These goals and objectives must have cleared direction for the individual and
the group. Each individual/group has job responsibilities assigned and he/she is
responsible to meet the goals and objectives that would help get to the
company's goals and objectives.



However, I suggest creating or reviewing job descriptions to determine each
job's expectations and responsibilities. Also, make sure that the job
descriptions in place are the most current. Since these documents are considered
working documents. Please note each job has specific tasks that must be
accomplished to be effective and efficient. Now, having provided this
information it is important to understand the tasks involve and what is expected
to meet the bottom line results.


For example, I need to have reports done up to and including the 31 and they
need to be on my desk by the second of every month for reviewing and planning
new strategies for the following month. If these report get to your desk on the
10th of each month and it takes five days to set-up the new strategy, guess what
half of the month is gone.

I hope this helps, please feel free to submit questions.

Edna




ilkay canakkalelioglu wrote:

Hi to all!

I am İlkay Çanakkalelioğlu (I just joined the group). I am working in an
information technologies company. Our staff is about 250 people . I am new at
these performance management issues and I'd like to learn which method to use,
how to choose and implement? If anyone having recommendation either about staff
(individual/group) performance measurement methods (for it sector) or any
resource to read (especially something free on the internet), I will be
appreciated.

Best regards,
İlkay Çanakkalelioğlu
Industrial Engineer
TURKEY



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Group members,

Let me introduce my self before I share my views and experiences regarding PM.

I am Madhavi and have joined the group a few days back. I am in acedemics and
besides teaching I have acquired some experience in training and consulting on
designing and implementing preformance management systems/ 360 degree feedback
etc.

I find Edna's view to be quite valueable and also appreciate Kim's discussion on
the behavioural aspects.

It is quite important to ensure that people exhibit the right kind of behaviour
(in case of PM particularly the one raised by Carl, timely conduct of
performance reviews and return of the review forms).

But the moment we talk about conditioning the behaviour by way of rewards and
punishment or whatever reinforcement one uses, we also need to think about the
position one takes on viewing human behaviour. Wouldn't it be the same as the
classical conditioning. This may sound a little harsh and I know that most
organisations have been doing it in order to get the employees perform, it also
in some way indicates that human beings get motivated to perform by external
rewards. Is there any way of internalising the desirable behaviour?

regards

Madhavi


















Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your life partneronline.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Kim ,

Yip, got me thinking, thanks. I am in the process of arranging yet another PM
training session and will most definitely before the session begins request them
to come up with suggestions as to how I can ensure that adhere to my time frames
and requests.

Will be in touch

Kind regards

Carl

>>> lifelinebelmont@... 2005/02/01 03:25:18 >>>


Hi Carl,

While I agree with Edna's comments below, a believe a more fundamental
behavioural principle must be satisfied before her suggestions will be
optimally effective (perhaps Edna took this to be a given, but I'll outline
it anyway).

People will not change their behaviour unless there is some consequence of
enough personal value to them to motivate them to change. Your action in
contacting this group is an example of this basic behavioural principle.
That is, You are concerned that you will continue to be rated negatively if
this issue is not addressed (i.e. the potential consequence which is of
value or importance to you), so you have asked for the group's suggestions
(i.e. your subsequent behaviour/action to hopefully avoid that potential
negative consequence). I believe that, if you find out what your line
managers value (be it avoidance of a negative consequence, or achievement
of a positive consequence) and link that consequence to the submission of
PM reports, you will achieve the result you are looking for. Do their own
performance ratings depend partly on the submission of appraisals of their
subordinates? Do Line Managers' own performance ratings have an impact on
their pay (or other desirable conditions of employment)?

While I find the above principle to be true, it must also be remembered
that it only works reliably when the person who is subject to the
consequence has some control over whether they can achieve it or avoid it
(whichever is the desired outcome). For example, if your performance rating
depends partly on whether Line Managers submit their Team member's
appraisals to you, but your employer gives you no power to enforce this
requirement, you will lose the motivation to address it - obviously because
there is no way under your control that enables you to do so. Many
businesses make the mistake of rating their employees on factors out of
their control, and hence suffer inevitable low morale and turnover.
Sometimes, as a result of this, such businesses "throw the baby out with
the bath water", by discarding good practices (like those suggested by
Edna) because they failed to acknowledge a basic behavioural principle.

Hope this helps your thinking.

Regards,

Kim (Perth, Western Australia).

At 08:14 AM 31/01/2005 +0200, you wrote:


>** High Priority **
>
>Hi Edna,
>
>My name is Carl Marx, (not joking). Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.
>
>I am employed in the government sector. The issue of performance
>management has been added to my portfolio only recently. I do have an good
>understanding of pm.  I work for the Department of Transport and Public
>Works in the Western Cape province of South Africa, stationed in Cape Town.
>
>The Departments job descriptions etc are in place and they are aligned to
>the departments goals and objectives and they are reviewed annually or
>when the need arises but definitely every 3 years as prescribed by the
>Minister.
>I  manage the pm process for the Department there are plus minus 1600
>employees in the department reporting to their various
>supervisors/managers etc. Once the supervisors have held their quarterly
>review sessions, they need to supply me with proof as well as copies of
>the staffs Individual Performance development Plans (IPDP) Both parties
>need to sign the document. This is a control method that was put in place
>to ensure that they did however hold the review sessions.   I keep a data
>base of all the IPDP's  received. At the end of a 12 month cycle, staff
>who performed according to various standards set qualify to receive a
>performance bonus.  I need proof that all 4 quarterly review sessions were
>held as well as  a copy of the rating Instrument (a document used to rate
>each individual) only theater can I payout their performance bonuses.
>
>My problem is the reluctance of line managers to submit their required
>documents as well as to conduct review sessions (4x review session plus an
>rating instrument) timeoulsy in order for to process them.  What measures
>can I put in place to ensure that I receive all documents. I send out
>reminder letters, conduct information sessions throughout the year but
>still they do not cooperate. I get rated negatively as result of staff not
>cooperating although I feel that I have done my part by sending out
>various reminders etc.
>
>Please pardon any grammatical errors as English is my second language.
>Afrikaans is my first language, it is only spoken in South Africa.
>
>Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
>
>Kind regards
>
>Carl
>
>
> >>> ecolon02@... 2005/01/29 01:09:37 >>>
>
>İlkay,
>
>
>Nice meeting you. My name is Edna Colon I have been in a leadership role
>creating, training, coaching and evaluating performance for over 30 years.
>First, performance measurement methods are unique to the organization's
>settings. Second, you need to have in placed the company's goals and
>objectives. These goals and objectives must have cleared direction for the
>individual and the group. Each individual/group has job responsibilities
>assigned and he/she is responsible to meet the goals and objectives that
>would help get to the company's goals and objectives.
>
>
>
>However, I suggest creating or reviewing job descriptions to determine
>each job's expectations and responsibilities. Also, make sure that the job
>descriptions in place are the most current. Since these documents are
>considered working documents. Please note each job has specific tasks that
>must be accomplished to be effective and efficient. Now, having provided
>this information it is important to understand the tasks involve and what
>is expected to meet the bottom line results.
>
>
>For example, I need to have reports done up to and including the 31 and
>they need to be on my desk by the second of every month for reviewing and
>planning new strategies for the following month. If these report get to
>your desk on the 10th of each month and it takes five days to set-up the
>new strategy, guess what half of the month is gone.
>
>I hope this helps, please feel free to submit questions.
>
>Edna
>
>
>
>
>ilkay canakkalelioglu <ilkay_firstmoon@...> wrote:
>
>Hi to all!
>
>I am İlkay Çanakkalelioğlu (I just joined the group). I am working in an
>information technologies company. Our staff is about 250 people . I am new
>at these performance management issues and I'd like to learn which method
>to use, how to choose and implement? If anyone having recommendation
>either about staff (individual/group) performance measurement methods (for
>it sector) or any resource to read (especially something free on the
>internet), I will be appreciated.
>
>Best regards,
>İlkay Çanakkalelioğlu
>Industrial Engineer
>TURKEY
>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Do you Yahoo!?
>  Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


Kim Parks
Manager Human Resource Services


----------
Lifeline WA - Where Care Overcomes Time & Distance
ABN:                    43 517 756 699
Street Address: 57 Murray Street, Perth WA 6000
Postal Address: GPO Box K765, Perth WA 6842
Telephone:              (08) 9261 4461
Facsimile:              (08) 9421 1247

Lifeline WA relies on financial support from the community.
To make a donation please visit www.lifelinewa.org.au or phone 1300 855 556

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed.
If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager.








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Oh, Yeah. Let's have fun. And look forward to some fun contests and book
giveaways.

Hi Carl,

While I agree with Edna's comments below, a believe a more fundamental
behavioural principle must be satisfied before her suggestions will be
optimally effective (perhaps Edna took this to be a given, but I'll outline
it anyway).

People will not change their behaviour unless there is some consequence of
enough personal value to them to motivate them to change. Your action in
contacting this group is an example of this basic behavioural principle.
That is, You are concerned that you will continue to be rated negatively if
this issue is not addressed (i.e. the potential consequence which is of
value or importance to you), so you have asked for the group's suggestions
(i.e. your subsequent behaviour/action to hopefully avoid that potential
negative consequence). I believe that, if you find out what your line
managers value (be it avoidance of a negative consequence, or achievement
of a positive consequence) and link that consequence to the submission of
PM reports, you will achieve the result you are looking for. Do their own
performance ratings depend partly on the submission of appraisals of their
subordinates? Do Line Managers' own performance ratings have an impact on
their pay (or other desirable conditions of employment)?

While I find the above principle to be true, it must also be remembered
that it only works reliably when the person who is subject to the
consequence has some control over whether they can achieve it or avoid it
(whichever is the desired outcome). For example, if your performance rating
depends partly on whether Line Managers submit their Team member's
appraisals to you, but your employer gives you no power to enforce this
requirement, you will lose the motivation to address it - obviously because
there is no way under your control that enables you to do so. Many
businesses make the mistake of rating their employees on factors out of
their control, and hence suffer inevitable low morale and turnover.
Sometimes, as a result of this, such businesses "throw the baby out with
the bath water", by discarding good practices (like those suggested by
Edna) because they failed to acknowledge a basic behavioural principle.

Hope this helps your thinking.

Regards,

Kim (Perth, Western Australia).

At 08:14 AM 31/01/2005 +0200, you wrote:


>** High Priority **
>
>Hi Edna,
>
>My name is Carl Marx, (not joking). Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.
>
>I am employed in the government sector. The issue of performance
>management has been added to my portfolio only recently. I do have an good
>understanding of pm.  I work for the Department of Transport and Public
>Works in the Western Cape province of South Africa, stationed in Cape Town.
>
>The Departments job descriptions etc are in place and they are aligned to
>the departments goals and objectives and they are reviewed annually or
>when the need arises but definitely every 3 years as prescribed by the
>Minister.
>I  manage the pm process for the Department there are plus minus 1600
>employees in the department reporting to their various
>supervisors/managers etc. Once the supervisors have held their quarterly
>review sessions, they need to supply me with proof as well as copies of
>the staffs Individual Performance development Plans (IPDP) Both parties
>need to sign the document. This is a control method that was put in place
>to ensure that they did however hold the review sessions.   I keep a data
>base of all the IPDP's  received. At the end of a 12 month cycle, staff
>who performed according to various standards set qualify to receive a
>performance bonus.  I need proof that all 4 quarterly review sessions were
>held as well as  a copy of the rating Instrument (a document used to rate
>each individual) only theater can I payout their performance bonuses.
>
>My problem is the reluctance of line managers to submit their required
>documents as well as to conduct review sessions (4x review session plus an
>rating instrument) timeoulsy in order for to process them.  What measures
>can I put in place to ensure that I receive all documents. I send out
>reminder letters, conduct information sessions throughout the year but
>still they do not cooperate. I get rated negatively as result of staff not
>cooperating although I feel that I have done my part by sending out
>various reminders etc.
>
>Please pardon any grammatical errors as English is my second language.
>Afrikaans is my first language, it is only spoken in South Africa.
>
>Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
>
>Kind regards
>
>Carl
>
>
> >>> ecolon02@... 2005/01/29 01:09:37 >>>
>
>İlkay,
>
>
>Nice meeting you. My name is Edna Colon I have been in a leadership role
>creating, training, coaching and evaluating performance for over 30 years.
>First, performance measurement methods are unique to the organization's
>settings. Second, you need to have in placed the company's goals and
>objectives. These goals and objectives must have cleared direction for the
>individual and the group. Each individual/group has job responsibilities
>assigned and he/she is responsible to meet the goals and objectives that
>would help get to the company's goals and objectives.
>
>
>
>However, I suggest creating or reviewing job descriptions to determine
>each job's expectations and responsibilities. Also, make sure that the job
>descriptions in place are the most current. Since these documents are
>considered working documents. Please note each job has specific tasks that
>must be accomplished to be effective and efficient. Now, having provided
>this information it is important to understand the tasks involve and what
>is expected to meet the bottom line results.
>
>
>For example, I need to have reports done up to and including the 31 and
>they need to be on my desk by the second of every month for reviewing and
>planning new strategies for the following month. If these report get to
>your desk on the 10th of each month and it takes five days to set-up the
>new strategy, guess what half of the month is gone.
>
>I hope this helps, please feel free to submit questions.
>
>Edna
>
>
>
>
>ilkay canakkalelioglu <ilkay_firstmoon@...> wrote:
>
>Hi to all!
>
>I am İlkay Çanakkalelioğlu (I just joined the group). I am working in an
>information technologies company. Our staff is about 250 people . I am new
>at these performance management issues and I'd like to learn which method
>to use, how to choose and implement? If anyone having recommendation
>either about staff (individual/group) performance measurement methods (for
>it sector) or any resource to read (especially something free on the
>internet), I will be appreciated.
>
>Best regards,
>İlkay Çanakkalelioğlu
>Industrial Engineer
>TURKEY
>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Do you Yahoo!?
>  Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


Kim Parks
Manager Human Resource Services


----------
Lifeline WA - Where Care Overcomes Time & Distance
ABN:                    43 517 756 699
Street Address: 57 Murray Street, Perth WA 6000
Postal Address: GPO Box K765, Perth WA 6842
Telephone:              (08) 9261 4461
Facsimile:              (08) 9421 1247

Lifeline WA relies on financial support from the community.
To make a donation please visit www.lifelinewa.org.au or phone 1300 855 556

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed.
If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager.

Dear Ilkay,

I am Jayan  also an Industrial Engineer and am consulting in PM.  I am sure
you must have read something on PM already. Well all the PM implementor has
their own way of implemeting things however for IT people it would be more
on the measurable terms.

You start with the Goal setting and Mutual Agreement of the same. After
which, the review takes place. The review should be based on the measuable
attributes...

I will try to locate some detail on measurables for Engineers and IT people.

Jayan Nyachhyon
----- Original Message -----
From: "ilkay canakkalelioglu" <ilkay_firstmoon@...>
To: <perfmgt2@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 9:50 PM
Subject: [perfmgt2] staff performance management in it sector


>
> Hi to all!
>
> I am İlkay Çanakkalelioğlu (I just joined the group). I am working in an
information technologies company. Our staff is about 250 people . I am new
at these performance management issues and I'd like to learn which method to
use, how to choose and implement? If anyone having recommendation either
about staff (individual/group) performance measurement methods (for it
sector) or any resource to read (especially something free on the internet),
I will be appreciated.
>
> Best regards,
> İlkay Çanakkalelioğlu
> Industrial Engineer
> TURKEY
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

** High Priority **

Hi Edna,

My name is Carl Marx, (not joking). Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.

I am employed in the government sector. The issue of performance management has
been added to my portfolio only recently. I do have an good understanding of pm.
I work for the Department of Transport and Public Works in the Western Cape
province of South Africa, stationed in Cape Town.

The Departments job descriptions etc are in place and they are aligned to the
departments goals and objectives and they are reviewed annually or when the need
arises but definitely every 3 years as prescribed by the Minister.
I  manage the pm process for the Department there are plus minus 1600 employees
in the department reporting to their various supervisors/managers etc. Once the
supervisors have held their quarterly review sessions, they need to supply me
with proof as well as copies of the staffs Individual Performance development
Plans (IPDP) Both parties need to sign the document. This is a control method
that was put in place to ensure that they did however hold the review sessions.
I keep a data base of all the IPDP's  received. At the end of a 12 month cycle,
staff who performed according to various standards set qualify to receive a
performance bonus.  I need proof that all 4 quarterly review sessions were held
as well as  a copy of the rating Instrument (a document used to rate each
individual) only theater can I payout their performance bonuses.

My problem is the reluctance of line managers to submit their required documents
as well as to conduct review sessions (4x review session plus an rating
instrument) timeoulsy in order for to process them.  What measures can I put in
place to ensure that I receive all documents. I send out reminder letters,
conduct information sessions throughout the year but still they do not
cooperate. I get rated negatively as result of staff not cooperating although I
feel that I have done my part by sending out various reminders etc.

Please pardon any grammatical errors as English is my second language. Afrikaans
is my first language, it is only spoken in South Africa.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Kind regards

Carl


>>> ecolon02@... 2005/01/29 01:09:37 >>>

İlkay,


Nice meeting you. My name is Edna Colon I have been in a leadership role
creating, training, coaching and evaluating performance for over 30 years.
First, performance measurement methods are unique to the organization's
settings. Second, you need to have in placed the company's goals and objectives.
These goals and objectives must have cleared direction for the individual and
the group. Each individual/group has job responsibilities assigned and he/she is
responsible to meet the goals and objectives that would help get to the
company's goals and objectives.



However, I suggest creating or reviewing job descriptions to determine each
job's expectations and responsibilities. Also, make sure that the job
descriptions in place are the most current. Since these documents are considered
working documents. Please note each job has specific tasks that must be
accomplished to be effective and efficient. Now, having provided this
information it is important to understand the tasks involve and what is expected
to meet the bottom line results.


For example, I need to have reports done up to and including the 31 and they
need to be on my desk by the second of every month for reviewing and planning
new strategies for the following month. If these report get to your desk on the
10th of each month and it takes five days to set-up the new strategy, guess what
half of the month is gone.

I hope this helps, please feel free to submit questions.

Edna




ilkay canakkalelioglu <ilkay_firstmoon@...> wrote:

Hi to all!

I am İlkay Çanakkalelioğlu (I just joined the group). I am working in an
information technologies company. Our staff is about 250 people . I am new at
these performance management issues and I'd like to learn which method to use,
how to choose and implement? If anyone having recommendation either about staff
(individual/group) performance measurement methods (for it sector) or any
resource to read (especially something free on the internet), I will be
appreciated.

Best regards,
İlkay Çanakkalelioğlu
Industrial Engineer
TURKEY



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hi!

Hello! to all,

I am Krishnan & new to this group. Presemtly working as HR-Incharge in an
textile industry having near about 1000 workers in which 150 staffs are
working. At presently we start Quality circle in our factory. so i would
like to know about the modern techniques used for asses the performance of
circle members & leaders. For the maximum performance what are the
trainings should be essential for the members & leaders.If anyone having
idea about this please guide us for the same. It will be highly appreciated.

Krishnan
HR-Incharge
India.


Original Message:
-----------------
From: Edna Colon ecolon02@...
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 03:09:37 -0800 (PST)
To: perfmgt2@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [perfmgt2] staff performance management  in it sector



İlkay,


Nice meeting you. My name is Edna Colon I have been in a leadership role
creating, training, coaching and evaluating performance for over 30 years.
First, performance measurement methods are unique to the organization's
settings. Second, you need to have in placed the company's goals and
objectives. These goals and objectives must have cleared direction for the
individual and the group. Each individual/group has job responsibilities
assigned and he/she is responsible to meet the goals and objectives that
would help get to the company's goals and objectives.



However, I suggest creating or reviewing job descriptions to determine each
job's expectations and responsibilities. Also, make sure that the job
descriptions in place are the most current. Since these documents are
considered working documents. Please note each job has specific tasks that
must be accomplished to be effective and efficient. Now, having provided
this information it is important to understand the tasks involve and what
is expected to meet the bottom line results.


For example, I need to have reports done up to and including the 31 and
they need to be on my desk by the second of every month for reviewing and
planning new strategies for the following month. If these report get to
your desk on the 10th of each month and it takes five days to set-up the
new strategy, guess what half of the month is gone.

I hope this helps, please feel free to submit questions.

Edna




ilkay canakkalelioglu <ilkay_firstmoon@...> wrote:

Hi to all!

I am İlkay Çanakkalelioğlu (I just joined the group). I am working in an
information technologies company. Our staff is about 250 people . I am new
at these performance management issues and I'd like to learn which method
to use, how to choose and implement? If anyone having recommendation either
about staff (individual/group) performance measurement methods (for it
sector) or any resource to read (especially something free on the
internet), I will be appreciated.

Best regards,
İlkay Çanakkalelioğlu
Industrial Engineer
TURKEY



__________________________________________________
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http://mail2web.com/ .

İlkay,


Nice meeting you. My name is Edna Colon I have been in a leadership role
creating, training, coaching and evaluating performance for over 30 years.
First, performance measurement methods are unique to the organization's
settings. Second, you need to have in placed the company's goals and objectives.
These goals and objectives must have cleared direction for the individual and
the group. Each individual/group has job responsibilities assigned and he/she is
responsible to meet the goals and objectives that would help get to the
company's goals and objectives.



However, I suggest creating or reviewing job descriptions to determine each
job's expectations and responsibilities. Also, make sure that the job
descriptions in place are the most current. Since these documents are considered
working documents. Please note each job has specific tasks that must be
accomplished to be effective and efficient. Now, having provided this
information it is important to understand the tasks involve and what is expected
to meet the bottom line results.


For example, I need to have reports done up to and including the 31 and they
need to be on my desk by the second of every month for reviewing and planning
new strategies for the following month. If these report get to your desk on the
10th of each month and it takes five days to set-up the new strategy, guess what
half of the month is gone.

I hope this helps, please feel free to submit questions.

Edna




ilkay canakkalelioglu <ilkay_firstmoon@...> wrote:

Hi to all!

I am İlkay Çanakkalelioğlu (I just joined the group). I am working in an
information technologies company. Our staff is about 250 people . I am new at
these performance management issues and I'd like to learn which method to use,
how to choose and implement? If anyone having recommendation either about staff
(individual/group) performance measurement methods (for it sector) or any
resource to read (especially something free on the internet), I will be
appreciated.

Best regards,
İlkay Çanakkalelioğlu
Industrial Engineer
TURKEY



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





Yahoo! Groups Links









---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
  Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi to all!

I am İlkay Çanakkalelioğlu (I just joined the group). I am working in an
information technologies company. Our staff is about 250 people . I am new at
these performance management issues and I'd like to learn which method to use,
how to choose and implement? If anyone having recommendation either about staff
(individual/group) performance measurement methods (for it sector) or any
resource to read (especially something free on the internet), I will be
appreciated.

Best regards,
İlkay Çanakkalelioğlu
Industrial Engineer
TURKEY



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Enter The Performance Appraisal Worst or Funniest Experiences Contest
Win Free Books and Performance Appraisal and Performance Management
Tools

Do you have a performance appraisal horror story? A great example of
a completely hopeless example of how appraisals should NOT work?
Funny appraisal stories? Now's your chance to share your experiences
with others, and win performance management and appraisal prizes
(performance management books and tools published by Bacal &
Associates). The contest is open as of January 15, 2005 until Feb
28th, 2005. Winners will be announced ON the discussion list in early
March, 2005.

How to Enter

Describe your appraisal horror story in as much detail as possible.
Your submission MUST be a true story. Funny is good. Send (email)
your entry to our performance appraisal discussion list by emailing
it to perfmgt2@yahoogroups.com. You do NOT have to be a registered
member of the list to enter, but you will need to join the list to be
informed of the winners (and whether you've won).

Important: To be considered as an entrant in the contest your must
have the word CONTEST in the title/subject line of your email. That's
to make it easier to identify what is an entry and what is not.

You can join the list by sending an email to perfmgt2-
subscribe@yahoogroups.com and replying to the confirmation you will
be sent, OR, going to http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/perfmgt2/
, OR using the subscription box at the bottom of this page.

You can view the list archives (and hence any other horror stories)
by going to http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/perfmgt2/

Prizes and Winning Criteria

Four (4) winners will be chosen, and will receive prize packages
consisting of at least one of Robert Bacal's performance management
and appraisal books published by McGraw-Hill, and a performance
management helpcard/tool published by Bacal & Associates. Bacal &
Associates will pay all postage to get your prizes to you if you win.

The contest is primarily for fun, so we don't have strong and firm
judging criteria. We'll look for things like unusualness, humor, and
absolutely useless, and hopeless use of performance appraisals. The
more detailed your story, the better your chance of being chosen, so
write a story about the horror story. Decisions are final.

Please Read These Rules

When you submit to the contest, what you write will be available to
the public via the performance management and appraisal list.
Therefore, don't write anything that could cause you trouble, and do
not include real names of others, individuals or companies.

All entries become the property of Bacal & Associates. That means
that by entering, you give permission to Bacal & Associates to
reprint your submission in any format or media (without identifying
you as the source, so you can be anonymous). If you do not agree with
this condition, please do NOT enter the contest.

A copy of these instructions are on the web at http://performance-
appraisals.org/contest.htm

Robert Bacal - New - The Customerservicezone.com at
http://customerservicezone.com
Visit http://workhelp.org for over 2,200 work related articles and
work tools.
http://conflict911.com - Conflict Management Resource Center, and
http://performance-appraisals.org for performance management help,
and our new
flagship site, http://workhelp.org

I've been wanting to have some fun with this list, and on this list,
so I've set up the Performance appraisal horror story contest.
Starting now, we invite you to post your true stories that
demonstrate, insanely stupid, funny, inept, and pointless uses of
performance appraisal and performance management.

Information about the contest is at
http://performance-appraisals.org/contest.htm. Please read before
submitting, and/or check out the next post which contains all the
details.

Also, feel free to comment on any stories that appear on the list so
we can learn from them.Robert Bacal - New - The
Customerservicezone.com at
http://customerservicezone.com
Visit http://workhelp.org for over 2,200 work related articles and
work tools.
http://conflict911.com - Conflict Management Resource Center, and
http://performance-appraisals.org for performance management help,
and our new
flagship site, http://workhelp.org

Performance Management & Appraisal List Information & Rules

This is an automated monthly posting of procedures and rules for this list.

Mandate/ Topicality
Initially intended for the discussion of performance management & appraisal, the
topic list has expanded somewhat, since, of course performance is linked to many
other things. The basic rule of thumb is that topics should pertain to
performance improvement whether on an individual or corporate level.

Subscribe/Unsubscribe
To subscribe to the list send an email to perfmgt2-subscribe@egroups.com. To
leave the list send email to perfmgt2-unsubscribe@egroups.com


Important Pages:
You can change your options about how you want to receive this list at:
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/perfmgt2

You can access the COMPANION RESOURCE SITE at:
http://performance-appraisals.org
to read articles and free stuff on performance management related topics

Moderation
This list is moderated, but at this point mostly to filter out spam or mail that
is not relevant to the group. The moderator's decision is final, but we really
moderate or reject very few posts.

Rules:
1) No flaming or personal attacks. Disagree on the issues (that's fine).
2) No blatant ads.
3) Those who post to the list and help others get some leeway to promote their
websites, if their sites are relevant to this list.
4) Please make an effort to trim the quotes you take from other messages. If you
include entire messages in your reply it destroys the digest option.

Sundry
This list is operated by Robert Bacal, author of Performance Management - A
Briefcase Book, and The CI Guide to Dealing With Difficult Employees and a whole
bunch of other books. It is operated as a public service.

Oh, Yeah. Let's have fun. And look forward to some fun contests and book
giveaways.

Pan,

This is a very interesting subject. I am not aware of any businesses.
Nut I would think that the cost involved in performamnce management
may not at track them.

Edna




--- In perfmgt2@yahoogroups.com, "Pan Salvaridis"
<pan.salvaridis@w...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone have any good experience in delivering performance
management
> and/or improvement services to mid-sized businesses of around 50 -
200
> employees? In my experience this is an 'untapped' market sector
because of
> features and needs that are very much different to larger
corporations or
> small businesses.
> I would be very interested to hear from anyone who has identified
the PM
> needs of such businesses, and more specifically the impact of any
PM program
> on the performance of the organization resulting in the
satisfaction of the
> business owner.
>
> Pan Salvaridis
> PerformanceCC
> Geneva

Does anyone have any good experience in delivering performance management
and/or improvement services to mid-sized businesses of around 50 - 200
employees? In my experience this is an 'untapped' market sector because of
features and needs that are very much different to larger corporations or
small businesses.
I would be very interested to hear from anyone who has identified the PM
needs of such businesses, and more specifically the impact of any PM program
on the performance of the organization resulting in the satisfaction of the
business owner.

Pan Salvaridis
PerformanceCC
Geneva

Hi Telavika,

Thanks.  It is actually eight days of training with the modules if
wanted by the organization, not bad.

Edna




--- In perfmgt2@yahoogroups.com, "Telavika Faite" <FaiteTM@a...>
wrote:
>
> Edna,
>
> There are eight modules in our performance appraisal skill
development
> program. It incorporates all the various issues/topics that were
mentioned
> in R.Bacal's discussion. We've based the development program on the
> understanding that managers do not really care much about theories
but
> rather on what is most practical and workable given their previous
> experience in performance appraisals.
>
> Each module is a day long and each phase is tied to achieving an
immediate
> requirement by the company at the workplace. This ensures that what
is
> learnt is immediately applied at the work place. After the
completion of
> each practical exercises, both participants of these modules and
recipients
> of the appraisal process are then asked for their comments. These
comments
> are then incorporated into the next module for further discussion.
>
> We are still in the early stages of this new approach but results
have been
> positive so far.
>
>
> Telavika
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Edna Colon [mailto:ecolon02@y...]
> Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 11:32 AM
> To: perfmgt2@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [perfmgt2] Re: Performance Appraisal Training Approach
>
>
>
> Telavika  and Team,
>
> I like the idea of module training. How long are the modules and
how long
> are the training sessions, and last, is there a hand on practice?
>
> I would think that the appraisal performance templates and goals
and the
> companies objectives will cut down so of the basics, if the
trainees been on
> the job awhile.
>
> However, I find that we conduct training and the trainees go back
to their
> old methods for their own reasons, such as they are more
comfortable with
> their process, time saver, and no support from the top.
>
> These are excuses but the problems of no follow-up training does
exist.
>
>
> Edna
>
>
>
>
> Telavika Faite <FaiteTM@a...> wrote:
>
>
> More and more I am finding that long training sessions often do not
produce
> the desired results.
>
> Our focus now is on module-type training. I have started with our
> performance appraisal system and it seems to be having the desired
effect at
> the workplace.
>
> Telavika
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ecolon02 [mailto:ecolon02@y...]
> Sent: Thursday, 9 December 2004 9:40 PM
> To: perfmgt2@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [perfmgt2] Re: Performance Appraisal Training Approach
>
>
>
>
> ---
> Robert,
>
> This is interesting. I would think that this org would want to get
it
> right the first time and have the full training. In my opinion I do
> not believe one full day is enough time, less half-a-day to cover
> performamnce and appraisal training, I would go with a minimum of
> five days. Setting goals and objectives and how to measure them can
> take time. Did they have their objectives and how to measure them,
> and did they understand their own goals and objectives?
>
> It would be interesting to see an example of one or two appraisals
to
> determine if they did capture the concept of the performance and
> appraisal process.
>
> Edna
>
>
> In perfmgt2@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Bacal" wrote:
> > Thought this might be of interest to some. I was hired to do some
> > performance appraisal/management training for a large multi-
> national
> > manufacturing company, and while we had initially decided to a
full
> > day, it got cut to four hours (but for two different groups, one
> > a.m., one p.m.
> >
> > Since the time was too short to do real full scale skill
building, I
> > used a more faciliatative approach to get them to build the links
> > between their own management level goals, work unit goals, and the
> > performance management process.
> >
> > We spent the first hours defining what they wanted and expected
from
> > their employees, then moved to defining what the employees needed
to
> > succeed at being desireable employees. THEN we moved to defining a
> > process of performance planning, goal setting, communication, etc
> (in
> > essence performance management).
> >
> > In short the point was to re-define (for those managers), the
> purpose
> > of appraisals and to shift their thinking from spending time on
> > appraisals (a remedial process) to the other parts of performance
> > management (a preventative problem-solving approach).
> >
> > Manufacturing managers tend to be hard-nosed, practical so I
wasn't
> > sure if a facilitated approach would work. I was pleasantly
> surprised
> > about how well it was received, the positive comments and
> > evaluations.
> >
> > We aren't doing any ROI stuff, so I can't speak to outcomes. But I
> > think this approach has potential for training in this area.
> >
> > Robert Bacal - New - The Customerservicezone.com at
> > http://customerservicezone.com
> > Visit http://workhelp.org for over 2,200 work related articles and
> > work tools.
> > http://conflict911.com - Conflict Management Resource Center, and
> > http://performance-appraisals.org for performance management help,
> > and our new
> > flagship site, http://workhelp.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
> This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security
System.
> For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
>
______________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
>  The all-new My Yahoo! – What will yours do?
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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System.
> For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
>
______________________________________________________________________

Edna,

There are eight modules in our performance appraisal skill development
program. It incorporates all the various issues/topics that were mentioned
in R.Bacal's discussion. We've based the development program on the
understanding that managers do not really care much about theories but
rather on what is most practical and workable given their previous
experience in performance appraisals.

Each module is a day long and each phase is tied to achieving an immediate
requirement by the company at the workplace. This ensures that what is
learnt is immediately applied at the work place. After the completion of
each practical exercises, both participants of these modules and recipients
of the appraisal process are then asked for their comments. These comments
are then incorporated into the next module for further discussion.

We are still in the early stages of this new approach but results have been
positive so far.


Telavika

-----Original Message-----
From: Edna Colon [mailto:ecolon02@...]
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 11:32 AM
To: perfmgt2@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [perfmgt2] Re: Performance Appraisal Training Approach



Telavika  and Team,

I like the idea of module training. How long are the modules and how long
are the training sessions, and last, is there a hand on practice?

I would think that the appraisal performance templates and goals and the
companies objectives will cut down so of the basics, if the trainees been on
the job awhile.

However, I find that we conduct training and the trainees go back to their
old methods for their own reasons, such as they are more comfortable with
their process, time saver, and no support from the top.

These are excuses but the problems of no follow-up training does exist.


Edna




Telavika Faite <FaiteTM@...> wrote:


More and more I am finding that long training sessions often do not produce
the desired results.

Our focus now is on module-type training. I have started with our
performance appraisal system and it seems to be having the desired effect at
the workplace.

Telavika
-----Original Message-----
From: ecolon02 [mailto:ecolon02@...]
Sent: Thursday, 9 December 2004 9:40 PM
To: perfmgt2@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [perfmgt2] Re: Performance Appraisal Training Approach




---
Robert,

This is interesting. I would think that this org would want to get it
right the first time and have the full training. In my opinion I do
not believe one full day is enough time, less half-a-day to cover
performamnce and appraisal training, I would go with a minimum of
five days. Setting goals and objectives and how to measure them can
take time. Did they have their objectives and how to measure them,
and did they understand their own goals and objectives?

It would be interesting to see an example of one or two appraisals to
determine if they did capture the concept of the performance and
appraisal process.

Edna


In perfmgt2@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Bacal" wrote:
> Thought this might be of interest to some. I was hired to do some
> performance appraisal/management training for a large multi-
national
> manufacturing company, and while we had initially decided to a full
> day, it got cut to four hours (but for two different groups, one
> a.m., one p.m.
>
> Since the time was too short to do real full scale skill building, I
> used a more faciliatative approach to get them to build the links
> between their own management level goals, work unit goals, and the
> performance management process.
>
> We spent the first hours defining what they wanted and expected from
> their employees, then moved to defining what the employees needed to
> succeed at being desireable employees. THEN we moved to defining a
> process of performance planning, goal setting, communication, etc
(in
> essence performance management).
>
> In short the point was to re-define (for those managers), the
purpose
> of appraisals and to shift their thinking from spending time on
> appraisals (a remedial process) to the other parts of performance
> management (a preventative problem-solving approach).
>
> Manufacturing managers tend to be hard-nosed, practical so I wasn't
> sure if a facilitated approach would work. I was pleasantly
surprised
> about how well it was received, the positive comments and
> evaluations.
>
> We aren't doing any ROI stuff, so I can't speak to outcomes. But I
> think this approach has potential for training in this area.
>
> Robert Bacal - New - The Customerservicezone.com at
> http://customerservicezone.com
> Visit http://workhelp.org for over 2,200 work related articles and
> work tools.
> http://conflict911.com - Conflict Management Resource Center, and
> http://performance-appraisals.org for performance management help,
> and our new
> flagship site, http://workhelp.org







Yahoo! Groups Links








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This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
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______________________________________________________________________

---
Hi Robert,

Hi Robert,

You are right it is not feasible to get the management team out for
training. Is it realistic for a two-year window to get the results in
today's chaotic working environment?

I would think that the high turnover in many of companies today and
it is going to get worse as soon as the younger generations start
joining the workforce.

One suggestion, taking a manager and making them the subject matter
expert (SME) may be more beneficial and cost effective. I am afraid
that the management team can create an "easy to do business with
appraisal process" and get into legal issues.

What do you think?
Edna





In perfmgt2@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Bacal" <ceo@w...> wrote:
>
>
> On 9 Dec 2004 at 11:39, ecolon02 wrote:
>
>
> > This is interesting. I would think that this org would want to
get it
> > right the first time and have the full training.
>
> I agree that what you say makes sense, but on the other hand, I
> REALLY understand the realities of this client's work environment.
> They run multiple shifts in a manufacturing environment, and the
> managers are constantly on the floor, actually working. To pull
them
> away from that environment has real impact on the work, apparently.
>
>
> In my opinion I do
> > not believe one full day is enough time, less half-a-day to cover
> > performamnce and appraisal training, I would go with a minimum of
five
> > days.
>
> Actually that's what I told them -- that a full skill building
> process for performance management could be five days long
(although
> I won't do them like that).
>
> Setting goals and objectives and how to measure them can take
> > time. Did they have their objectives and how to measure them, and
did
> > they understand their own goals and objectives?
> >
> > It would be interesting to see an example of one or two
appraisals to
> > determine if they did capture the concept of the performance and
> > appraisal process.
>
> Yes. Actually, one other thing I mentioned was that it would take 1-
> 2+ years to actually see the really positive results of doing the
> process properly. To know if they are doing them properly, you'd
have
> to actually watch them, rather than see their forms.
>
> Robert Bacal - New - The Customerservicezone.com at
> http://customerservicezone.com
> Visit http://workhelp.org for over 2,200 work related articles and
> work tools.
> http://conflict911.com - Conflict Management Resource Center, and
> http://performance-appraisals.org for performance management help,
> and our new
> flagship site, http://workhelp.org

Telavika  and Team,

I like the idea of module training. How long are the modules and how long are
the training sessions, and last, is there a hand on practice?

I would think that the appraisal performance templates and goals and the
companies objectives will cut down so of the basics, if the trainees been on the
job awhile.

However, I find that we conduct training and the trainees go back to their old
methods for their own reasons, such as they are more comfortable with their
process, time saver, and no support from the top.

These are excuses but the problems of no follow-up training does exist.


Edna




Telavika Faite <FaiteTM@...> wrote:


More and more I am finding that long training sessions often do not produce
the desired results.

Our focus now is on module-type training. I have started with our
performance appraisal system and it seems to be having the desired effect at
the workplace.

Telavika
-----Original Message-----
From: ecolon02 [mailto:ecolon02@...]
Sent: Thursday, 9 December 2004 9:40 PM
To: perfmgt2@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [perfmgt2] Re: Performance Appraisal Training Approach




---
Robert,

This is interesting. I would think that this org would want to get it
right the first time and have the full training. In my opinion I do
not believe one full day is enough time, less half-a-day to cover
performamnce and appraisal training, I would go with a minimum of
five days. Setting goals and objectives and how to measure them can
take time. Did they have their objectives and how to measure them,
and did they understand their own goals and objectives?

It would be interesting to see an example of one or two appraisals to
determine if they did capture the concept of the performance and
appraisal process.

Edna


In perfmgt2@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Bacal" wrote:
> Thought this might be of interest to some. I was hired to do some
> performance appraisal/management training for a large multi-
national
> manufacturing company, and while we had initially decided to a full
> day, it got cut to four hours (but for two different groups, one
> a.m., one p.m.
>
> Since the time was too short to do real full scale skill building, I
> used a more faciliatative approach to get them to build the links
> between their own management level goals, work unit goals, and the
> performance management process.
>
> We spent the first hours defining what they wanted and expected from
> their employees, then moved to defining what the employees needed to
> succeed at being desireable employees. THEN we moved to defining a
> process of performance planning, goal setting, communication, etc
(in
> essence performance management).
>
> In short the point was to re-define (for those managers), the
purpose
> of appraisals and to shift their thinking from spending time on
> appraisals (a remedial process) to the other parts of performance
> management (a preventative problem-solving approach).
>
> Manufacturing managers tend to be hard-nosed, practical so I wasn't
> sure if a facilitated approach would work. I was pleasantly
surprised
> about how well it was received, the positive comments and
> evaluations.
>
> We aren't doing any ROI stuff, so I can't speak to outcomes. But I
> think this approach has potential for training in this area.
>
> Robert Bacal - New - The Customerservicezone.com at
> http://customerservicezone.com
> Visit http://workhelp.org for over 2,200 work related articles and
> work tools.
> http://conflict911.com - Conflict Management Resource Center, and
> http://performance-appraisals.org for performance management help,
> and our new
> flagship site, http://workhelp.org







Yahoo! Groups Links








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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

More and more I am finding that long training sessions often do not produce
the desired results.

Our focus now is on module-type training. I have started with our
performance appraisal system and it seems to be having the desired effect at
the workplace.

Telavika
-----Original Message-----
From: ecolon02 [mailto:ecolon02@...]
Sent: Thursday, 9 December 2004 9:40 PM
To: perfmgt2@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [perfmgt2] Re: Performance Appraisal Training Approach




---
Robert,

This is interesting. I would think that this org would want to get it
right the first time and have the full training. In my opinion I do
not believe one full day is enough time, less half-a-day to cover
performamnce and appraisal training, I would go with a minimum of
five days. Setting goals and objectives and how to measure them can
take time. Did they have their objectives and how to measure them,
and did they understand their own goals and objectives?

It would be interesting to see an example of one or two appraisals to
determine if they did capture the concept of the performance and
appraisal process.

Edna


In perfmgt2@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Bacal" <ceo@w...> wrote:
> Thought this might be of interest to some. I was hired to do some
> performance appraisal/management training for a large multi-
national
> manufacturing company, and while we had initially decided to a full
> day, it got cut to four hours (but for two different groups, one
> a.m., one p.m.
>
> Since the time was too short to do real full scale skill building, I
> used a more faciliatative approach to get them to build the links
> between their own management level goals, work unit goals, and the
> performance management process.
>
> We spent the first hours defining what they wanted and expected from
> their employees, then moved to defining what the employees needed to
> succeed at being desireable employees. THEN we moved to defining a
> process of performance planning, goal setting, communication, etc
(in
> essence performance management).
>
> In short the point was to re-define (for those managers), the
purpose
> of appraisals and to shift their thinking from spending time on
> appraisals (a remedial process) to the other parts of performance
> management (a preventative problem-solving approach).
>
> Manufacturing managers tend to be hard-nosed, practical so I wasn't
> sure if a facilitated approach would work. I was pleasantly
surprised
> about how well it was received, the positive comments and
> evaluations.
>
> We aren't doing any ROI stuff, so I can't speak to outcomes. But I
> think this approach has potential for training in this area.
>
> Robert Bacal - New - The Customerservicezone.com at
> http://customerservicezone.com
> Visit http://workhelp.org for over 2,200 work related articles and
> work tools.
> http://conflict911.com - Conflict Management Resource Center, and
> http://performance-appraisals.org for performance management help,
> and our new
> flagship site, http://workhelp.org







Yahoo! Groups Links








______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
______________________________________________________________________

On 9 Dec 2004 at 11:39, ecolon02 wrote:


> This is interesting. I would think that this org would want to get it
> right the first time and have the full training.

I agree that what you say makes sense, but on the other hand, I
REALLY understand the realities of this client's work environment.
They run multiple shifts in a manufacturing environment, and the
managers are constantly on the floor, actually working. To pull them
away from that environment has real impact on the work, apparently.


In my opinion I do
> not believe one full day is enough time, less half-a-day to cover
> performamnce and appraisal training, I would go with a minimum of five
> days.

Actually that's what I told them -- that a full skill building
process for performance management could be five days long (although
I won't do them like that).

Setting goals and objectives and how to measure them can take
> time. Did they have their objectives and how to measure them, and did
> they understand their own goals and objectives?
>
> It would be interesting to see an example of one or two appraisals to
> determine if they did capture the concept of the performance and
> appraisal process.

Yes. Actually, one other thing I mentioned was that it would take 1-
2+ years to actually see the really positive results of doing the
process properly. To know if they are doing them properly, you'd have
to actually watch them, rather than see their forms.

Robert Bacal - New - The Customerservicezone.com at
http://customerservicezone.com
Visit http://workhelp.org for over 2,200 work related articles and
work tools.
http://conflict911.com - Conflict Management Resource Center, and
http://performance-appraisals.org for performance management help,
and our new
flagship site, http://workhelp.org

---
Robert,

This is interesting. I would think that this org would want to get it
right the first time and have the full training. In my opinion I do
not believe one full day is enough time, less half-a-day to cover
performamnce and appraisal training, I would go with a minimum of
five days. Setting goals and objectives and how to measure them can
take time. Did they have their objectives and how to measure them,
and did they understand their own goals and objectives?

It would be interesting to see an example of one or two appraisals to
determine if they did capture the concept of the performance and
appraisal process.

Edna


In perfmgt2@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Bacal" <ceo@w...> wrote:
> Thought this might be of interest to some. I was hired to do some
> performance appraisal/management training for a large multi-
national
> manufacturing company, and while we had initially decided to a full
> day, it got cut to four hours (but for two different groups, one
> a.m., one p.m.
>
> Since the time was too short to do real full scale skill building, I
> used a more faciliatative approach to get them to build the links
> between their own management level goals, work unit goals, and the
> performance management process.
>
> We spent the first hours defining what they wanted and expected from
> their employees, then moved to defining what the employees needed to
> succeed at being desireable employees. THEN we moved to defining a
> process of performance planning, goal setting, communication, etc
(in
> essence performance management).
>
> In short the point was to re-define (for those managers), the
purpose
> of appraisals and to shift their thinking from spending time on
> appraisals (a remedial process) to the other parts of performance
> management (a preventative problem-solving approach).
>
> Manufacturing managers tend to be hard-nosed, practical so I wasn't
> sure if a facilitated approach would work. I was pleasantly
surprised
> about how well it was received, the positive comments and
> evaluations.
>
> We aren't doing any ROI stuff, so I can't speak to outcomes. But I
> think this approach has potential for training in this area.
>
> Robert Bacal - New - The Customerservicezone.com at
> http://customerservicezone.com
> Visit http://workhelp.org for over 2,200 work related articles and
> work tools.
> http://conflict911.com - Conflict Management Resource Center, and
> http://performance-appraisals.org for performance management help,
> and our new
> flagship site, http://workhelp.org

Thought this might be of interest to some. I was hired to do some
performance appraisal/management training for a large multi-national
manufacturing company, and while we had initially decided to a full
day, it got cut to four hours (but for two different groups, one
a.m., one p.m.

Since the time was too short to do real full scale skill building, I
used a more faciliatative approach to get them to build the links
between their own management level goals, work unit goals, and the
performance management process.

We spent the first hours defining what they wanted and expected from
their employees, then moved to defining what the employees needed to
succeed at being desireable employees. THEN we moved to defining a
process of performance planning, goal setting, communication, etc (in
essence performance management).

In short the point was to re-define (for those managers), the purpose
of appraisals and to shift their thinking from spending time on
appraisals (a remedial process) to the other parts of performance
management (a preventative problem-solving approach).

Manufacturing managers tend to be hard-nosed, practical so I wasn't
sure if a facilitated approach would work. I was pleasantly surprised
about how well it was received, the positive comments and
evaluations.

We aren't doing any ROI stuff, so I can't speak to outcomes. But I
think this approach has potential for training in this area.

Robert Bacal - New - The Customerservicezone.com at
http://customerservicezone.com
Visit http://workhelp.org for over 2,200 work related articles and
work tools.
http://conflict911.com - Conflict Management Resource Center, and
http://performance-appraisals.org for performance management help,
and our new
flagship site, http://workhelp.org

Robert,

Thank you very much for allowing me to be part of this team. I would do my best
to meet expectations.

Edna Colon

perfmgt2@yahoogroups.com wrote:


Performance Management & Appraisal List Information & Rules

This is an automated monthly posting of procedures and rules for this list.

Mandate/ Topicality
Initially intended for the discussion of performance management & appraisal, the
topic list has expanded somewhat, since, of course performance is linked to many
other things. The basic rule of thumb is that topics should pertain to
performance improvement whether on an individual or corporate level.

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Important Pages:
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You can access the COMPANION RESOURCE SITE at:
http://performance-appraisals.org
to read articles and free stuff on performance management related topics

Moderation
This list is moderated, but at this point mostly to filter out spam or mail that
is not relevant to the group. The moderator's decision is final, but we really
moderate or reject very few posts.

Rules:
1) No flaming or personal attacks. Disagree on the issues (that's fine).
2) No blatant ads.
3) Those who post to the list and help others get some leeway to promote their
websites, if their sites are relevant to this list.
4) Please make an effort to trim the quotes you take from other messages. If you
include entire messages in your reply it destroys the digest option.

Sundry
This list is operated by Robert Bacal, author of Performance Management - A
Briefcase Book, and The CI Guide to Dealing With Difficult Employees and a whole
bunch of other books. It is operated as a public service.

Oh, Yeah. Let's have fun. And look forward to some fun contests and book
giveaways.






Yahoo! Groups Links









---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
  Meet the all-new My Yahoo! – Try it today!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Performance Management & Appraisal List Information & Rules

This is an automated monthly posting of procedures and rules for this list.

Mandate/ Topicality
Initially intended for the discussion of performance management & appraisal, the
topic list has expanded somewhat, since, of course performance is linked to many
other things. The basic rule of thumb is that topics should pertain to
performance improvement whether on an individual or corporate level.

Subscribe/Unsubscribe
To subscribe to the list send an email to perfmgt2-subscribe@egroups.com. To
leave the list send email to perfmgt2-unsubscribe@egroups.com


Important Pages:
You can change your options about how you want to receive this list at:
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/perfmgt2

You can access the COMPANION RESOURCE SITE at:
http://performance-appraisals.org
to read articles and free stuff on performance management related topics

Moderation
This list is moderated, but at this point mostly to filter out spam or mail that
is not relevant to the group. The moderator's decision is final, but we really
moderate or reject very few posts.

Rules:
1) No flaming or personal attacks. Disagree on the issues (that's fine).
2) No blatant ads.
3) Those who post to the list and help others get some leeway to promote their
websites, if their sites are relevant to this list.
4) Please make an effort to trim the quotes you take from other messages. If you
include entire messages in your reply it destroys the digest option.

Sundry
This list is operated by Robert Bacal, author of Performance Management - A
Briefcase Book, and The CI Guide to Dealing With Difficult Employees and a whole
bunch of other books. It is operated as a public service.

Oh, Yeah. Let's have fun. And look forward to some fun contests and book
giveaways.

Performance Management & Appraisal List Information & Rules

This is an automated monthly posting of procedures and rules for this list.

Mandate/ Topicality
Initially intended for the discussion of performance management & appraisal, the
topic list has expanded somewhat, since, of course performance is linked to many
other things. The basic rule of thumb is that topics should pertain to
performance improvement whether on an individual or corporate level.

Subscribe/Unsubscribe
To subscribe to the list send an email to perfmgt2-subscribe@egroups.com. To
leave the list send email to perfmgt2-unsubscribe@egroups.com


Important Pages:
You can change your options about how you want to receive this list at:
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/perfmgt2

You can access the COMPANION RESOURCE SITE at:
http://performance-appraisals.org
to read articles and free stuff on performance management related topics

Moderation
This list is moderated, but at this point mostly to filter out spam or mail that
is not relevant to the group. The moderator's decision is final, but we really
moderate or reject very few posts.

Rules:
1) No flaming or personal attacks. Disagree on the issues (that's fine).
2) No blatant ads.
3) Those who post to the list and help others get some leeway to promote their
websites, if their sites are relevant to this list.
4) Please make an effort to trim the quotes you take from other messages. If you
include entire messages in your reply it destroys the digest option.

Sundry
This list is operated by Robert Bacal, author of Performance Management - A
Briefcase Book, and The CI Guide to Dealing With Difficult Employees and a whole
bunch of other books. It is operated as a public service.

Oh, Yeah. Let's have fun. And look forward to some fun contests and book
giveaways.

Just wanted to welcome you and thank you for making the migration
over from the old performance management list. I expect this list
will be fairly quiet so you won't be overwhelmed with a lot of
messages in your mailbox.

One thing I'd like to do with this list is to try to make it a little
more fun to be involved with. These days, discussion lists have lost
a lot of their community feel, and I know a lot of people don't find
it fun to participate anymore.

One thing we're going to be doing is running some fun contests with
performance appraisal/work-related products as prizes. What we'll do
is ask you for, let's say a worst experience, or a funny experience,
or a best experience around some aspect of management/worklife, and
we'll pick one or two as "best", and send out some prizes. The idea
is to have a FUN thing, while also contributing to the field.

I'll also be updating the list with new articles, issues, etc
available on the web and related to our topic, since I am often
researching performance related issues online.

Anyway, no point doing much until membership numbers either increase
or are stable, but I'll let people know.
Robert Bacal - Visit http://workhelp.org for over 2,200 work related
articles and
work tools
http://conflict911.com - Conflict Management Resource Center, and
http://performance-appraisals.org for performance management help.