Hi Gary,

You gave me a lot to chomp on below.  No more questions for now.  I
seem to be able to generate a negative flow with a simple pulsing gap
circuit but I'm sure it can be vastly improved and will be over the
next few weeks/months.  You information gave me some more information
to think about.

It seems that the avalanche effect is working in the HV low impedance
region and we will get into the Radiant Effect later.  Some quick
measurements before I dismantled my Version 1 tube circuit indicated
the RE event to be positive voltage wise in relationship to the
avalanche.

The splitting the positive I now understand, it has finally clicked!

First, it is basically making a positive charge/potential on the cap
feeding the anode of the spark gap via. the power supply. "The
Positive" part of the split".   When the spark and avalanche occurs
concurrently, there is a bi-directional split of voltage and current
that results in a gain in the charging/current flow loop in the
battery.

To clarify, when the gap fires, and makes an arc, there is a nice
conventional pulse thru the cathode diode via the load limiting
resistor in the positive terminal of the battery, electrons flowing
back through the spark gap, via the discharging cap and back to the
negative terminal, this continues till the voltage drops below the
ability of the gap to continue to conduct.   At the same time because
of the spark that then turns into an arc, on the anode there is also
an excess of electrons from the avalanche and this is the "split" and
additive charge. This biases the diode on across the cap. The added
negative potential provides a current flow through the diode back
into the battery.  There is a summed pulse formed at the negative
terminal of the cap formed by the avalanche and added to the flow
from the cap, hence the term "split the positive".

If a pulse that is high current during the time period of the arc
based on the time constant of the cap. Via the battery is fed into a
low resistance set of coils in an efficient pulse motor, the
rotational energy is a plus in the equation.  The pulse current
thought high in value in the coils is virtually recycled back to the
battery therefore extremely high efficiency may be obtained.   If it
is then used to generate additional power that is an additional
plus.  Obviously there are a lot of little low current pulses in
multiple coils with the total power of the motor being quite high and
the actual real current used being quite low.  Hummmmmmm,  There is a
lot to consider here, a LOT of circuit work to be tried and
considered a lot of theory to be proved to be sure what we think we
have is what we have, what is happening vs. what we think is
happening.

Something else to consider would be using a multi Farad Cap for the
loop with energy added/subtracted as needed to maintain the loop from
an isolated battery, this battery charged by the output of the motor
via an alternator.  This would be more efficient as the battery is an
electrochemical device while the cap would be a totally charge driven
storage unit, hence more efficient in the recycling of the electron
energy.

Thanks for all the info Gary.

Ben


----- Original Message -----
From: Margaret Magratten
To: Ben Thomas
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 7:50 PM
Subject: Sparks and Arcs


Dear Ben,
        " The time crossing of positive ions is of the order of
100 times that of the electrons. For ordinary gaps the time
of crossing of positive ions does not fall very much below
10(-5) seconds for the usual gaps used."
         " For sparks about atmospheric pressure the formative
time lags wee nearly 10(-7) sec. rather than 10(-5)."

         " In his theory, Schade does not define the value which
his current must reach before space charges can cause the
appearance of the spark. He says, however, that it does not
appear until currents of the order of 10(-5) ampere or more are
reached."      L&M

        Once you reach arc, there is a conducting two way plasma
that significantly lowers the resistance to allow for the conduction
of the current. See Plasma and Electric Arcs. I find McGraw Hill's
Scientific Encyclopedia to be very useful.
        Only sparks from pulsed dc give the desired effect of
Avalanche.

        The "driver circuit" for switching is a simple 555 timer
circuit. I think I have a full report on the driver circuit. I can
send it to
you.
        If you can get your hands on an old Radar book, they have
great pulsed dc circuits and driver circuits. Most are tube
but the 'what and how to' is all there. That's where Gray was
trained in the military, radar and electronics.

       Attached is an essay on transient voltages and transient
currents.
I hope will be helpful.

       In the Gray Motor Patent please locate the spark gap on
the circuit schematic. Trace the the current path through the choke
to the secondary of the transformer to ground common
which is the negative terminal of the battery.
When the avalanche process is completed, the burst of
electrons enter the anode of the spark gap. These excess
electrons seek equilibrium in the now open circuit. The high
density pushes the electrons back into the battery.

       The very inetersting thing about Gray's Motor Circuit is that if
you trace the loop it begins with the negative terminal of the
battery and ends with the negetive terminal of the battery. The loop
is
isolated by the transformer. The current from the negative terminal
is "split into an AC wave form" by the primary of the transformer,
then rectified to charge the capacitor. Perhaps this is what is ment
by "splitting the positive" from the wave form to provide a positive
potential to charge the capacitor that originated from straight dc
from
the neg. terminal of the battery!

      Avalanche only occurs between the cathode and anode
tip in the pathway of the spark gap and some surrounding space.
The means by which power is transfered to the two copper
collection plates is by the "Radiant Event".  We can cover that later.

      The step by step development of spark is covered
extensively in L&M's work , too much to properly address
in an email.

       The diode or triode prevents the avalanche from being
absorbed by the cathode once the pulse ceases. A one way path
to the anode for the current.

         Most other researchers all agree that the inductive kick
comes from the capacitor discharge. The initial
high discharge of current at the optimum time. David Waggoneer
has a video of the powerful discharge blowing two
HV electromagnets apart.  Douglas Konzen has good
oscilliscope shoots on his report. See Geof Egel's
"Energy 21 " site.

        I was trying to design a circuit that ran the avalanche through
the electromagnets. Have not had the time to follow through.
I am scheduled out for 6 months to a year.

        Share this with PES. I hope they decide to alot you the
money to build a HV pulsed dc motor and run proper testing.
Avalanche is part of the picture. The whole picture includes
Avalanche, the Radiant Event, Back EMF to recharge the
additional batteries, & The use of an optimum pulse at the optimum
time
from the capacitor.

       Hope this helps.                              GM

Hi all

Yikes! Whoops!  I meant this letter below to be a personal email reply  to
SterlingA, but I screwed up and replied to him from a post of his in my
inbox from this PES group!  duh...sorry about that...now you all know I am
applying for a grant I heard about for $5000 from PES.....sorry again it was
mistake....glad I didnt talk bad about anyone behind their back in it!


Anyways, the other post about the the plywood GRAY motor was meant to go
direct here, (it was copied from my yahoo group EVGRAY) so go ahead and read
that one....


ciaoKonehead




>From: "Douglas L. Konzen" <konehead@...>
>Reply-To: pes_gmeg@yahoogroups.com
>To: pes_gmeg@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [pes_gmeg] Engineering Report Arrives
>Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 12:20:25 -0700
>
>Hi Sterling
>
>
>Now that you are now mentioning taking the $5000 grant machine "to market"
>as a goal,. that changes things...I was thinking what I could do with
>$5000
>put into a dramatic ultimate-Muller machine super demonstrator with monster
>magnets and stainless steel construciton, (Mullers would be proud) But if
>you want something to be produced worldwide, the Muller-based machine might
>be too expensive in the $700 magnet costs, all the precision steel
>machioning,  and eventual manufacture license..
>They only hold patents on solid  black sand cores, (their bklack sand
>source
>secret)  and also their computerized switching system, nothing else that I
>know of.  Neither of these need to be employed in anything I would make
>anyways.
>
>Consider also this motor-generator I have already built (not a Muller
>deisgn) and tested (the motor part of it)
>
>the motor half of it runs on MINUS 20ma: (cant go wrong with that)
>
>http://www.geocities.com/koneheadx/selfrunTF.JPG
>http://www.geocities.com/koneheadx/2selfrunTF.JPG
>http://www.geocities.com/koneheadx/3selfrunTF.JPG
>
>Also I am making a very inexpensive and already testing a large motor-gen
>meant for the  "3rd world"; an easy to make GRAY -type motor, for a group
>in
>Croatia. I can send pictures and info on that too but dont have them handy
>right now...
>
>I also make motors that are of my own design, not Muller, not Adams, not
>GRAY, but the "konehead" motor - I have showed these and conducted
>workshops
>too building them over the years. (Twice for Elswick conferences in Phoenix
>and Sacramento,, once at Keelynet conference and a workshop in Canada where
>25 people made 12 motors too - also this motor design got me flown to
>Malloves lab in NH as it ran on batteries and charged the batteries while
>it
>runs for two days in a video) I have had info on this type motor up on the
>web for about five years.
>
>Anywas my idea is to still keep the inventor himself secret, but the simple
>construciton techniques and performance of the machine 100% public in your
>PES project.
>
>ciaoK
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Sterling D. Allan" <sterlingda@...>
> >Reply-To: pes_gmeg@yahoogroups.com
> >To: "PES Gray Motor Open Sourcing e-group" <pes_gmeg@yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: [pes_gmeg] Engineering Report Arrives
> >Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 12:31:14 -0600
> >
> >
> >Engineering Report Arrives at PES from Gary - contains extensive
> >information
> >about assembly, sketches.  Additional information about test results has
> >been requested.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Hi all

Here are 4 small JPG photos below of an inexpensive low-voltage
Gray/Muller motor I call it....there are no magnets in this motor
design, so that makes it a GRAY motor in my book, but the coils and
cores are arranged "axial" in the manner of a Muller side-saddle type
motor, which would have an even number of Pmagnets N-S in the rotor,
and an odd number of stator coils if it was really a Mullermotor.

This motor however has just two cores (4 coils) mounted in the 12"
wide and 1" thick white cutting-board plastic flywheel/rotor.
All the cores are 1/2" round welding-rod steel....

There are quite thick winds over the cores, about 16GA thick magnetic
wire, and only two layers of winds on the core....the wind is pulled
back to the rear of the core after the first wind, and then wound in
same direction as the first layer along the core for the 2nd layer
("directional")

The idea for the two rotating rotor-cores, is to wind the magnetic
wire around each side of the welding rod ironcores mounted "through"
the flywheel in the same direction; and so the two coils wound on
each side the rotor will imitate the rotor-coils actually being a
large permanet magnet, with N on one end, and S on the other of the
two rotor-cores.

I found that for some reason, the power from this motor (shaftpower
at least) is much stronger in attractive mode than repulsive.
Usually they are about equal in torque/power, and the classic-GRAY
scheme is repulsive coil-coil power, but in this motor the
attractive "implosion" of the three coils and two cores (a single
rotor core and two stator cores on each side) makes for over twice
the shaft-power it seems than the repulsive mode.  Probably at higher
voltage inputs, this might change - I have only tested this motor at
12 and 24V.  It draws a lot of amps, (3 to 5) but I have ways of
reducing this down to 1A or mabye 500ma later on (Pmagnets and short
pulse width)...

The test I want this motor to perform first is to be a high-amperage
sucker of a pulsemotor in a "split-the postive" circuit, where three
batteries in series for 36V run the motor, while three others
inparalell at 12V receive a charge from being in series from the OUT
of the motor to the IN of the NEG side of the 36V stack. Then after
that test, a diode recovery circuit will be run into those charge
batteries, or 3 more charge batteries to see how much  that improves
things compared to having no recovery circuit at all...Rain
jsutposted a circuit here a few days ago that combinse the two I want
to try out...

so this is my testing work coming up - once all that is finished,
then I'll add neomagnets to this design (transforming it into a
GRAY/MULLER/KONEHEAD motor then(!))and the rotational-position of
these added permanent magnets, which will be mounted right next to
the stator coils in each coil bank, and will be right "after" the
coil against coil power stroke (permanent magnet flux bridges I call
them)... So this means 12 magnets will be added later on...but there
will be added magnets only just next to the statorcoils, the rotor
will stay the same. I can also wind pickup winds around these
Pmagnets too, for more electtrical power form it wiht no extra draw
downfall (these winds might be OU just themselves)

I want to compare classic GRAY-power, compared to GRAY power with
permanent magnets added with this motor, and hopefullly it could be
something easily reproduced in any country in the world - it would be
nice if it performs jsut as good without the Pmagnets as with them,
(it wont I;ll bet) then the world wouldnt have to depend on China for
Neobydimium magnets in the future for OU motor stuff......this is
what the split-the-positive circuit will do - "negate" the heavy amps-
draw becasue a charging battery stack always receives the same amsp
into it as the amps drawn into the motor, so more amps-draw for more
shaft power wont really matter since more amps IN means more amps OUT
(and into charge stack).

Anyways here it is below in the links - roller-brush commutators are
not mounted in pictures - in a nutshell, it is a simple design of  2
rotor cores against 6 stator core positions (12 stator cores total)
the motor will be firng only 6 times a revolution...
This is the chassis from the "Croatian 12 vs 11 GRAY motor" that I
posted about a month or so ago here...I made it simpler in design
with only 14 coils to wind instead of 34... and am not doing the odd
rotorcoils vs even statorcoils thing with it now.
Anyone can make one of these for around $50 or $75 in parts from a
hardware store like Home Depot (they have welding rod and even will
sell the plywood coil banks already cut round for $5 or so) - the 12
neo magnets not shown mounted yet would be extra cost later on....

http://www.geocities.com/koneheadx/1plyG.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/koneheadx/2plyG.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/koneheadx/3plyG.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/koneheadx/4plyG.JPG

ciaoK

Hi Sterling


Now that you are now mentioning taking the $5000 grant machine "to market"
as a goal,. that changes things...I was thinking what I could do with  $5000
put into a dramatic ultimate-Muller machine super demonstrator with monster
magnets and stainless steel construciton, (Mullers would be proud) But if
you want something to be produced worldwide, the Muller-based machine might
be too expensive in the $700 magnet costs, all the precision steel
machioning,  and eventual manufacture license..
They only hold patents on solid  black sand cores, (their bklack sand source
secret)  and also their computerized switching system, nothing else that I
know of.  Neither of these need to be employed in anything I would make
anyways.

Consider also this motor-generator I have already built (not a Muller
deisgn) and tested (the motor part of it)

the motor half of it runs on MINUS 20ma: (cant go wrong with that)

http://www.geocities.com/koneheadx/selfrunTF.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/koneheadx/2selfrunTF.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/koneheadx/3selfrunTF.JPG

Also I am making a very inexpensive and already testing a large motor-gen
meant for the  "3rd world"; an easy to make GRAY -type motor, for a group in
Croatia. I can send pictures and info on that too but dont have them handy
right now...

I also make motors that are of my own design, not Muller, not Adams, not
GRAY, but the "konehead" motor - I have showed these and conducted workshops
too building them over the years. (Twice for Elswick conferences in Phoenix
and Sacramento,, once at Keelynet conference and a workshop in Canada where
25 people made 12 motors too - also this motor design got me flown to
Malloves lab in NH as it ran on batteries and charged the batteries while it
runs for two days in a video) I have had info on this type motor up on the
web for about five years.

Anywas my idea is to still keep the inventor himself secret, but the simple
construciton techniques and performance of the machine 100% public in your
PES project.

ciaoK






>From: "Sterling D. Allan" <sterlingda@...>
>Reply-To: pes_gmeg@yahoogroups.com
>To: "PES Gray Motor Open Sourcing e-group" <pes_gmeg@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: [pes_gmeg] Engineering Report Arrives
>Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 12:31:14 -0600
>
>
>Engineering Report Arrives at PES from Gary - contains extensive
>information
>about assembly, sketches.  Additional information about test results has
>been requested.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Engineering Report Arrives at PES from Gary - contains extensive information
about assembly, sketches.  Additional information about test results has
been requested.

Ben,

I didn't comment on your Re:5factor post.
You covered the bases pretty good and I
concur with your line of reasoning.

Where I had hoped to go with this was a
single pulse, as in motor. Control seems
to be a bit of a problem, or complication
however you want to say it, that and finding
high voltage caps at an affordable price.

As we seem to be the only two posting here,
don't hesitate to contact me off list.

Ron


--- In pes_gmeg@yahoogroups.com, k4zep@e... wrote:
> Hi Ron,
>
> Thanks, Version 1 was just an initial whack at it.  Lots of changes
snip
>
> I want to try and get a direct process to work and not have to go
> through the mechanical/generator process.
>
>
> Ben
>

Hi Ron,

Thanks, Version 1 was just an initial whack at it.  Lots of changes
coming in the third version, as I too do not see the avalanche effect
that I was expecting to see in Version 1 or 2 but "think" I know what
the problem/s are.

Lots of things to try to get it to kick into the avalanche mode.
Without that, it's just a lot of popping and cracking with no real
energy output.  My tube is totally wrong, but I wanted to try it
first.  I have also built a second version using the same tube in a
vertical position to get a "stovepipe" effect for airflow but the fat
lady still hasn't sung yet.  Might post Version 2 to photos just for
reference tomorrow.

I want to try and get a direct process to work and not have to go
through the mechanical/generator process.


Ben


--- In pes_gmeg@yahoogroups.com, "iron1of1" <ronee@t...> wrote:
> Hi Ben,
>
> Glad to see some action on the list. I had done some
> preliminary experiments without to much success.
> Works, but not the output I expected. You seem to
> have made a radical change in the circuit.
>
> So I will be waiting to see how this experiment
> progress's.
>
>
> BR, Ron
>
>
> --- In pes_gmeg@yahoogroups.com, k4zep@e... wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Just to show that I am not BS……ing.  In the photo's section you
will
> > find two photos I made today.
> >
> > The first BTGRAY1 is a picture of my first and simplified version
of
> > a Gray tube charging a battery.  In it is a HV electrostatic air
> > cleaner power supply adjusted by a Variac, a GRAY tube,
simplified
> > and most possibly could/can be much improved on.  A large 2uf,
6KV
> > oil cap, and misc. leads for speed of testing.  Much needs to be
done
> snip
> >
> > Ben
> > K4ZEP

Hi Ben,

Glad to see some action on the list. I had done some
preliminary experiments without to much success.
Works, but not the output I expected. You seem to
have made a radical change in the circuit.

So I will be waiting to see how this experiment
progress's.


BR, Ron


--- In pes_gmeg@yahoogroups.com, k4zep@e... wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Just to show that I am not BS……ing.  In the photo's section you will
> find two photos I made today.
>
> The first BTGRAY1 is a picture of my first and simplified version of
> a Gray tube charging a battery.  In it is a HV electrostatic air
> cleaner power supply adjusted by a Variac, a GRAY tube, simplified
> and most possibly could/can be much improved on.  A large 2uf, 6KV
> oil cap, and misc. leads for speed of testing.  Much needs to be done
snip
>
> Ben
> K4ZEP

Hi All,

Just to show that I am not BS……ing.  In the photo's section you will
find two photos I made today.

The first BTGRAY1 is a picture of my first and simplified version of
a Gray tube charging a battery.  In it is a HV electrostatic air
cleaner power supply adjusted by a Variac, a GRAY tube, simplified
and most possibly could/can be much improved on.  A large 2uf, 6KV
oil cap, and misc. leads for speed of testing.  Much needs to be done
but I just wanted to see if my basic rendition worked which it does,
more to come as I get my feet further into this.

BTGRAY2 is the schematic, simplified to show what is going on.  The
BTGRAY1 tube has no holes and only 1 layer of grid.

The Cap C1 in the bottom of the patent circuit has been replaced with
a low current high voltage ramping supply that can supply up to 7KV
DC and can ramp up to this voltage at the rate of about 40hz.  This
allows the 1/8" spark gap at the other end of the tube to fire at
this rate and series feeds the power from the supply PLUS the gain in
the tube into the 2uf 6KV cap. C2.  The output from the secondary
grid goes straight to the battery but/and due to it's electrostatic
nature, also provides a tickler spark across the secondary 3/16"
charging gap at the rate of 40 Hz that triggers this gap at the rate
of about 1-2 Hz.  The secondary spark is explosive in nature and can
be heard all over the HOUSE.

There are lethal voltages and current in this device.  IF YOU DO NOT
KNOW HOW TO work with these currents and voltages DON'T!.  I am a
retired electronic Tec. with experiences working with voltages up to
100KV so this is a simple system for me.  YOU MUST KNOW WHAT YOU ARE
DOING.

No data is available yet.  That will come over time.  Notice that
there are no diodes in this system.  It is more like the original
system but using a tube for the gain and a cap/battery system to
store said gain.

I also believe this is the basic mechanics of how the Testatika
operates, with some modifications.

Ben
K4ZEP

Hi Sterling, Gary,

I disagree most strenuously with the need to limit/legislate
materials, etc. within reason to the "backyard" experimenter.  110VAC
will kill you in a heartbeat or two does that mean we should cut off
the juice to our homes?  There are thousands of things that can kill
you if you are just plain stupid.

What you are suggesting is Free Energy research materials be
restricted and controlled because homegrown FE researchers are too
inept or untrained to work with this stuff.  Sort of like holding a
bartender liable for a guy getting too drunk to drive.  That would
have limited Thomas Edison who only had a limited education to
playing twiddly winks. You would never had the Muller motor, the
Adams Motor, Sheeessssh. The list here could be a mile
long.....Remember you can't legislate stupidity.....Genetics does
that.  There is a real neat site that shows the problems here....

http://www.darwinawards.com/

The Darwin Awards honor those who improve our gene pool... by
removing themselves from it.

Materials that could be used for WMD such as a ton of nitrates,
atomic bomb making materials, etc.  Is reasonable to expect control
in these areas but not basic science materials.

Gary, welcome to the world of BIG magnets.  I have some 2" X 2" X
1/4" NEO 45 magnets that I can NOT separate with my hands.  I believe
you are on a very steep learning curve right now.  Yes I too have had
blood blisters on my hands till I got "smarter".  By your own
admission you were at fault for the accident (long hours, tired,
etc.) and would be the first one that would be on the list of persons
that would be limited in their access to these materials.....I do not
think you would want to be in that catagory.

As with any material a person should head safety warnings, use
protective devices suggested for that material, gloves goggles, etc.
But just because of an accident for all the wrong reasons, this
should not be a reason to immediately think this new medium  should
be controlled!  That is the last thing we need.........

Respectfully,

Ben K4ZEP

--- In pes_gmeg@yahoogroups.com, "Sterling D. Allan"
<sterlingda@p...> wrote:

> Gary,
>
> Our Terms of Service document that we are working on for the Open
Sourcing projects includes a notice that people will hold PES and
associated inventors non-liable for any such accidents they might
have.
>
> We will do our due diligence to post clearly any pertinent warnings.
>
> Speaking of which, may I have permission to post your message below
to the site?
>
> I've played around with 1" dia neos and 1/2" neos, and know how
easy it is to get a good pinch.  I got a black and blue finger within
the first 20 seconds once when inspecting a device that had neos in
it.
>
> Sterling
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: [Gary Magratten]
> To: Sterling D. Allan
> Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 7:56 PM
> Subject: Dangers of R&D
>
>
> Dear Sterling,
>        Today we had our first accident with Neodymium 'Super
Magnets'.
> We are working long hours and probably over-tired. It became
painfully
> obvious the forces we are dealing with. Please see attached file on
magnets.
> There are safety lables - warning of the danger of the magnets but
one does
> not consider what happens when multiple magnets of like polarity
are
> placed together. The effect is cumulative, bone crushing force.
>      The commercially made electromagnets when combined with
neodymium
> magnets are a highly dangerous combination. Small 12 volt dc
electromagnets
> range from 50 to 1700 lbs of holding power. The possibility of
injury by mishandling
> both of these together raises some issues. This is definitely not
research for
> the " Do-It-Yourselfer" free-energy researcher.
>      You should probably experiment with some of the smaller
magnets to
> understand what I am taking about.
>      Somewhere between the HV capacitors and circuits , the
powerful magnets and
> and electromagnets, lasers it may be necessary to restrict the
access to this material
> to qualified researchers. You [ PES] may be opening up yourself to
a law suit if
> someone is injured trying to recreate this work. I would suggest
that you discuss
> this with your legal staff, seeing that this is new territory. That
is why the ER is not for the
> general public. Any device that is powerful is dangerous.
>
>
                          Gary Magratten

Hi All,

I'm new to this list but have been looking at the GRAY circuits for
years and have decided to go out on a limb and build, test the
circuits.

In reading Gary's description of the "5 reasons" that it works, in my
humble opinion the only real reason the GRAY circuits are significant
is basically in the  #1 and #2 descriptions below.  The Avalanche
effect and recovery of that energy by the "Gray" tube.  How the
excess energy is then used is simply application in the form of a HV
Pulsed DC motor which can be done without the tube or recovery in
batteries for later use when the tube is used, which while novel is
not extraordinary.

I will go out on a limb here and also suggest that the Pulsed DC PM
Motor that Gary is working on has nothing to do with a Gray motor
system and is more like a Muller/Adams/Konehead style of motor. This
is neither good nor bad but you must recognize a LV PM pulsed motor
and the differences between the two.

At the power levels here, I suspect that the broad band radiation
effects are not significant due to the simple fact that Mr. Gray and
others worked around his motors/devices for years with no ill effect.

I also suspect that the currents mentioned in the report by Gary
while high are of very short duration based on the ability of the 2uf
cap to maintain the spark or the duration of the commutation if
limited by the series resistance or/and current limiting if a Triode
is used.  I also seriously question some of the
descriptions/directions of current flow from the batteries but will
wait till later after some experimentation to verify my suspicions.
Current can only flow from the/a SOURCE during the SPARK/low
resistance event and when there is a difference in potential.  I
believe there is some question of whether a SPARK or an ARC is what
produces the continuing effects and again MUCH experimentation is
required to verify the mechanics of the Avalanche.

As far a regenerative feedback of the back EMF, and the collapsing
back EMF of the electromagnets, remember it took energy to build that
field so this is simply recovery of some of that energy and the
resulting IR Losses in LV circuits. While it will improve the overall
effenciency of the device, it is not really a new concept to anyone
working with pulse motors.

I have my first version of the CSET tube working on my bench right
now and have a LOT more work to do. As time permits, will upload
pictures, schematics of what I am doing plus result.  I will say that
the most aggravating problem right now is the liberal release of
silicon smoke from diodes when this device is in operation......
Which is a good sign!

I have read Gary's description many times and it has been most
helpful.  Let's just say as I believe he will agree, his version is a
great starting place, but not the ending place.  It would appear that
the Gray Tube/arc is where all the action is and where the most
improvement can be.

The original Pulsed MOTOR with spark gaps, no tubes and obvious OU
shows that the Avalanche effect is indeed real and that no tube is
needed if you can convert the excess energy directly to rotary power
and then drive a conventional alternator to recharge the batteries. I
believe it is safe to say that the "Tube" was a later version to
provide direct recovery to the batteries and eliminate the motor if
that was not what was needed?

I do believe that if the Avalanche effect from a spark is fully
understood it will become clear how many of OU effects occur in many
of the devices such as the Testatika, Muller, Adams, etc.

Please excuse my long initial post, so much to discuss so little
space.

Respectfully

Ben K4ZEP


>
> Dear Sterling,
>       Please post this:
>
>       There are 5 major factors that make the Gray
> Motor Circuit and the Gray Circuit , ' Efficient Power
> Supply Suitable for Inductive Loads' important in
> motor circuit design work.
>
> 1) The 'Radiant Event' which is developed from the
> H.V. steel anode and coupled to the load circuit
> by the copper collection tubes appears to provide
> a large increase in energy. I attribute this to the
> ionization of air molecules in the spark gap. Each
>  bound electron gains a quanta of electromagnetic
> radiation during the ionization process.
> As there is a multiplication of free electrons
> due to avalanche the release of quanta of electromagnetic
> radiation when the free electrons strike the H.V. anode
> is proportional to the increase in free electrons.
> The process by which electrons release EMR on impact to
> the H.V. anode is refered to as the "Inverse Photoelectric Effect"
>
> 2) The increase in 'free electrons' due to avalanche is
> directed back to the primary and secondary batteries.
> See schematic and trace the circuit path back to the neg.
> terminal of the batteries.
>
> 3) The current in the circuit is recycled back to the negative
> terminals of the batteries.
>
> 4) The power pulse delivered to the electromagnet load
> is [ in phase] high voltage, high current for the optimum
> duration at the optimum time.
>
> 5) The collapsing EMF of the electromagnets is utilized to
> recharge the secondary batteries. Not shown in the
> schematic but stated in the Tech. Discussion and
> Patents.
>
>       As I am very busy with bringing this to market, I will not
have
> time to answer questions from those simply curious.
> If someone is actually working on the circuit or working on the
> recreation of the 'Radiant Event' , then I will try to make time.
>
> Does the ER on the power supply have errors? Yes, it does.
> It was my first attempt at the recreation. That is the nature
> of R&D , trial and error. If someone wants to
> actually do work and make constructive contributions, that is very
> welcome. I am sorry that I can not answer all questions for all
> interested but I simply do not have time.
>
> If there is someone who is knowledgeable in this area of physics
> who wants to make a contribution, ie.; avalanche, inverse
photoelectric
> effect, 'Radiant Event' or 'positron / electron annihilation' -
> P.A.M. Dirac Theory  , quantum theory in relation to air molecule
> ionization and 'bound state' to 'free state' and back again,
> then we can talk.
>
Respectfully,
>
>
>
> Gary Magratten
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
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>
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toll free (877)944-6247 or (970)484-7257
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Sterling,

Apologies if I sounded a bit rushed. I am today.

I will be in touch and communicating results with you and the men when I
have something conclusive, repeatable and interesting to show.

I am a noise and vibration engineer, and very thorough with testing and
data.

Hello and best wishes to all in the forum.

Chris.

-----Original Message-----
From: Sterling D. Allan [mailto:sterlingda@...]
Sent: Wednesday, 9 June 2004 1:30 PM
To: PES Gray Motor Open Sourcing e-group
Subject: [pes_gmeg] Ed Gray forum: Meet Chris Culley


Hello Ed Gray guys,

I was on the phone this evening with Chris Culley from Australia.

He has been going back and forth with Gary for some time, and is in
process of building  the "triggering unit" and expects to be done in
about 2 weeks.

Due to a tight budget, he is using parts from old microwaves and radios.
"That is part of the fun of it," he said.  "That way it is more likely
that other people will be able to replicate it."

He is in the middle of a move right now, so he is a bit busy right now.

I mentioned to him that this email list is a forum, and anyone
subscribed to it is free to post to it.

As things are posted, then we can cut and paste that content to a
relevant page on the website in an organized form so that the wisdom
that passes through the list is easier to find by others coming into the
project.

For example, I will be posting pertinent parts of this message here:
http://www.pureenergysystems.com/os/EdGrayMotor/PM_PEM_MG/replications/C
hrisCulley/
or try: http://tinyurl.com/3bnqc
(the tinyurl is to make the urls short so they don't get chopped in
email)

Sterling






Yahoo! Groups Links

Hello Ed Gray guys,

I was on the phone this evening with Chris Culley from Australia.

He has been going back and forth with Gary for some time, and is in process
of building  the "triggering unit" and expects to be done in about 2 weeks.

Due to a tight budget, he is using parts from old microwaves and radios.
"That is part of the fun of it," he said.  "That way it is more likely that
other people will be able to replicate it."

He is in the middle of a move right now, so he is a bit busy right now.

I mentioned to him that this email list is a forum, and anyone subscribed to
it is free to post to it.

As things are posted, then we can cut and paste that content to a relevant
page on the website in an organized form so that the wisdom that passes
through the list is easier to find by others coming into the project.

For example, I will be posting pertinent parts of this message here:
http://www.pureenergysystems.com/os/EdGrayMotor/PM_PEM_MG/replications/ChrisCull\
ey/
or try: http://tinyurl.com/3bnqc
(the tinyurl is to make the urls short so they don't get chopped in email)

Sterling

Hi

I think a "laser diode" is actually just a  light-emitting diode and
laser-diode is really just an incorrect term for this common timing
mechanism like the guy says....

Halleffects willwork too - they have ones now that will respond to just a
magnet - no power supply needed.  Only thing is if the magnetice fields of
the strong magnets will affect them (why you go to light-triggers)

Mechanical commutators will work out to be the best effeciency still I would
bet - and still in electric cars today, brushes on DC motors work out the
best for example....5yrs replacement time, and they are easy to replace.

trick:
Switch at the hi (pos) and the (lo) end of the motor coils simultanaeous and
vary the timing overlap to give yourself best backemf/recoil output (by way
of FWBR over both switches now catching both ways) and also the
timign-overlap can be adjusted to make ulstra small pulse width so resonance
with recoil.back emf  will happen. (big pulse width will muffle any ring)

ciaoKonehead



----- Original Message -----
From: Sterling D. Allan <sterlingda@...>
To: PES Gray Motor Open Sourcing e-group <pes_gmeg@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 7:44 AM
Subject: [pes_gmeg] Q: IR Diode v. Laser for timing


>
> Maybe one of you has some insight on this.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sterling D. Allan" <sterlingda@...>
> To: [G.M.]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 11:59 AM
> Subject: IR Diode v. Laser
>
>
> Hi Gary,
>
> An associate has made the following recommendation:
>
> Rather than use a laser diode for timing, why not use an IR diode.  By IR
> diode he referred to "both pass-through and reflective that are made to
> measure physical displacement, cheap and reliable and use a banal
> IR-emitting LED, not a Laser-Diode."
>
> He also asks, "why use the term laser diode? why not use a banal IR-LED.
> Little components that incorporate both IR-LED and phototransistor are
cheap
> and widely available."  He tends to think you "do not need coherent light
> from a laser."
>
> Comment?
>
> Sterling
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Maybe one of you has some insight on this.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sterling D. Allan" <sterlingda@...>
To: [G.M.]
Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 11:59 AM
Subject: IR Diode v. Laser


Hi Gary,

An associate has made the following recommendation:

Rather than use a laser diode for timing, why not use an IR diode.  By IR
diode he referred to "both pass-through and reflective that are made to
measure physical displacement, cheap and reliable and use a banal
IR-emitting LED, not a Laser-Diode."

He also asks, "why use the term laser diode? why not use a banal IR-LED.
Little components that incorporate both IR-LED and phototransistor are cheap
and widely available."  He tends to think you "do not need coherent light
from a laser."

Comment?

Sterling

new in this evening:

http://www.pureenergysystems.com/os/EdGrayMotor/PM_PEM_MG/plans/PhaseDiagramDesc\
ription.htm
or try http://tinyurl.com/2j7sr

----- Original Message -----

From: Sterling D. Allan

To: PES Gray Motor Open Sourcing e-group

Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 8:23 AM

Subject: [pes_gmeg] Photos of present prototype PM/PEM,MG

hopefully we'll have better luck with this yahoogroup account

Posted here:

http://www.pureenergysystems.com/os/EdGrayMotor/PM_PEM_MG/prototypes/motor/GM2/

or try http://tinyurl.com/2qd82

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: ***

To: Sterling D. Allan

Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 2:45 PM

Subject: Photos of present prototype PM/PEM,MG

Dear Sterling,

     Here are the photos of the present prototype

under construction. PM/PEM,M-G 

The low voltage power switching

using infared laser is now under construction and

run in testing has been performed.

    Perfecting the laser switching will take time,

but it is worth the effort, no drag or parts to wear

out . Mechanical commutation was employed in the

first prototype PEM. 

    See atteached photos, there is plenty more.

   

                                                        GM

posted
http://www.pureenergysystems.com/os/EdGrayMotor/PM_PEM_MG/prototypes/motor/GM2/
or try: http://tinyurl.com/2qd82

From: [G.M.]
To: Sterling D. Allan
Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 8:21 AM
Subject: PM/PEM,M-G Circuits


Dear Sterling,
      The motor is firing nicely and runs. At present I am employing
mechanical pulsing to adjust timing of the attraction and repulsion phases.
The circuit testing will consist of four different circuits, two low voltage
and two high voltage. The laser switch, consisting of a laser and a
photo-detector provide the on-off switching for pulsing the electromagnets.
       Continuous run-in testing will take place this week. The circuit
consist of a pnp bipolar medium power transistor connected to a npn high
current power transistor, in a darlington pair configuration. The laser
switch provides the base current to pnp transistor. The laser and
photo-detector are operating and performing nicely in testing. The
transistor circuit will replace an old pulsed dc circuit I have been using
for testing purposes. I will make the schematics of the circuits available
when they are properly tested.
       The high voltage circuits are dangerous, similar to the Efficient
Power Supply Suitable for Inductive Loads. That is where continued
experimentation with avalanche takes place. Gray circuit prototype # 1
employed avalanche.
       I prefer low voltage circuits because of safety and the potential for
mass marketing, although less powerful.
      After continuous run in testing I plan to have the results inspected by
a licensed electrical engineer and have him stamp the test results to avoid
any confusion or misrepresentation. This will be part of the Preliminary
Report scheduled for July.
      After you receive the 'Technical Discussion' by R. Hackenburger I will
send the working drawings for the motor. Perhaps your mechanical engineer
can review the drawings and build a prototype. It is not expensive, under
$500.
     [...]

GM