Location:
5:00 p.m. - Cocktail Hour and Networking
Americano Bar (Hotel Vitale) - 8 Mission Street, San Francisco CA 94105

7:00 p.m. - Main Event. Sandwiches available on request.
Salesforce.com offices - 1 Market Street - 7th floor Conf. Room - San Francisco.
 
9:00pm - Raffle & wrap up.
We will be raffling software licenses from AccuRev and some books.
 

OPEN SPACE: The Hardest thing about Agile for me is...

We will use Open-Space techniques to take a look what's difficult or challenging about implementing or practicing Agile. We will share and discuss ideas for communicating and improving your situation. Open Space is an engaging experience that affords everyone the opportunity to select their own level of involvement. Host a session about a topic which you are passionate about; move from session to session and listen in; camp out in one location and add your 10 cents. There's something for all at an Open Space.

 
-- David Chilcott
Outformations, Inc.
drc@...
510.655.7122 Voice

Keep Breathing. Tell the Truth. Be Fearless. Choose Love. Embrace the Mystery.

SV Technology, Inc, a Microsoft Gold Certified Partner, is seeking to fill an exciting opportunity within its Technology team for an experienced contract Developer.

Within your role you would:

• Develop new features and functionality for J2EE applications
• Analyze technical problems
• Work closely with developers of varying experience to ensure that the application is a good one

You should have:

• Passion and excitement for good, optimized code that solves end-users’ problems
• Interest and knowledge about web-deployed applications and their role in business
• Experience to tell when to use a short-cut and when to provide a complex solution
• 4 - 6 years of software development experience
• At least 4 years working with J2EE
• Experience with Struts, JSP, JSTL, XML, HTML and Javascript
• Experience with database design and development with SQL Server
• Experience working with source-control (CVS) and development environments (Eclipse)
• Strong collaboration and communication skills


SV Technology, Inc. is a 24 person strong software development and services firm based in San Francisco, focusing on the legal and professional services market. We are a Microsoft Gold Certified Partner (as ISV). We are a young and vibrant company and we seek employees who will take an active part in our team, people you can lead as well as function as part of a small team, people who are not afraid to speak their mind and who are willing to take an interest in all areas of our business and those of our clients. We appreciate and recognize the value of your activities and interests outside work. We are committed to the ongoing training and development of our staff at all levels. We view an ability to appreciate the issues facing our clients - which tend to be the top-tier of law firms worldwide – as being core to our success. Our principal office (at which the role will be based) is in downtown San Francisco close to 2 blocks from Market Street and the Embarcadero with easy access to the MUNI, BART and ferries.

Our principal product is LawPort; a browser deployed portal, content and knowledge management system used by law firms across the US, Canada, UK and their affiliated offices throughout the world. We are always looking for new and innovative ways to communicate LawPort’s data, whether that is via mobile technology, via Office products or the desktop.

You should be available to interview / start as soon as possible.

Please respond to jobs@... addressing your application to “VP Technology”. Please use the subject line “Sr. Software Engineer - JAVA (12/06)” on your application and include a cover letter. In your cover letter please detail, to the extent not covered in your resume, the employment and projects on which you gained your experience and any other information of relevance.

!DSPAM:4588675c279111540572205!

• We use Ubuntu, Gentoo and Redhat distributions, moving to Ubuntu as fast as possible
• Postfix - we are potentially switching over to a postfix based email server this month, use with courier IMAP, amavisd, spamassassin
• Qmail - our current main server, use with vpopmail and ezmlm
• Apache - Apache 1 and 2, virtual hosts, mod_rewrite
• MySQL - operation and tuning, phpmyadmin
• CVS - operation and admin

• Good communication skills, able to communicate with Outformations folk, internal clients and hosting clients
• Familiarity with heterogenous environments
• Network troubleshooting experience
• Production environment operations experience
• Deployment experience
• Support Experience
• Availability for support coverage after hours/weekends
• Basic understanding of firewalls and system security

• Plone -
• PHP - We can cover this but having an extra PHP resource would be good
• Dspam - our current anti-spam tool
• Bacula - backup tool for hosting
  

I just removed and banned a new member for spamming the group. Good
think all new members are moderated to start with.

For those of you living in the San Francisco Bay Area who may be
interested:

Bay Area Rational Users Group presents Scott Ambler on The Enterprise
Unified Process (EUP) – Extending the Rational Unified Process
Thursday March 17 - 6pm - 9pm
The meeting is free but an RSVP is required by building security.
Meeting details can be found at:
http://www.unifiedprocessgroup.com/buildout/NextRUPUserGroupEvent.htm

The Rational Unified Process (RUP) is a rigorous software development
process.  Unfortunately the RUP comes up short in several places – it does
not address cross-system issues such as strategic reuse management,
enterprise business modeling, enterprise architecture, portfolio
management, people  management, enterprise administration, software process
improvement (SPI), system operations & support, or system retirement.   The
Enterprise Unified Process (EUP) extends the RUP to address the real-world
concerns of large organizations.  This presentation overviews the RUP,
discusses its strengths and weaknesses, and then goes on to describe in
detail how the EUP extends the RUP to become a true IT process.

--David Chilcott
drc@...
www.outformations.com
510.655.7122 Voice

Keep Breathing.  Tell the Truth.  Be Fearless.  Choose Love.

Hi David,

That is quite a milestone.  I have two questions:

* Do you have anything that you've published on the
Web about how you guys got together and started
outformations?  Something about its history that might
inspire us?

* It sounds like offshore outsourcing is not
negatively impacting your business to the extent that
we constantly hear about -- the steady downer
drumbeat.
Any comments would be appreciated about how you see
this impacting programmer cooperatives.

Thanks,
Doug

--- drc@... wrote:

>
>
>
>
> Well we broke 1.5 million bucks business this year.
>
> Don't know if that counts as a success story or not
> but it represents a
> whole lot of work and cooperation <grin>.
>
> --David Chilcott
> drc@...
> www.outformations.com
> 510.655.7122 Voice
>
> Keep Breathing.  Tell the Truth.  Be Fearless.
> Choose Love.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>                       "doug07031863"
>
>
>                       <doug07031863@yah        To:
>     programmercoops@yahoogroups.com
>
>                       oo.com>                  cc:
>
>
>
> Subject:  [ProgrammerCoOps] Any Progress?
>
>                       11/10/2004 06:03
>
>
>                       PM
>
>
>                       Please respond to
>
>
>                       programmercoops
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Any success stories or attempts at starting
> businesses?  I haven't
> done anything this year, but am wondering if others
> are still thinking
> about or doing anything related to programmer
> cooperatives.
>
> - Doug
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thank you for using this group. Remember, you can
> read archived messages,
> change your settings, unsubscribe, or whatever by
> visiting the group URL at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/programmercoops or you
> can unsubscribe by
> emailing
> ProgrammerCoOps-UnSubscribe@YahooGroups.com - thank
> you.
>
>
>
>
>                            Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>                                ADVERTISEMENT
>
>            (Embedded image moved to file:
> pic26500.gif)click here
>
>
>
>
>  (Embedded image moved to file: pic19169.gif)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>       To visit your group on the web, go to:
>       http://groups.yahoo.com/group/programmercoops/
>
>       To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
> to:
>       programmercoops-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>       Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> !DSPAM:4192d221323131730242369!

> ATTACHMENT part 2 image/gif name=pic26500.gif


> ATTACHMENT part 3 image/gif name=pic19169.gif





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page.
www.yahoo.com

Well we broke 1.5 million bucks business this year.

Don't know if that counts as a success story or not but it represents a
whole lot of work and cooperation <grin>.

--David Chilcott
drc@...
www.outformations.com
510.655.7122 Voice

Keep Breathing.  Tell the Truth.  Be Fearless.  Choose Love.






                       "doug07031863"
                       <doug07031863@yah        To:      
programmercoops@yahoogroups.com
                       oo.com>                  cc:
                                                Subject:  [ProgrammerCoOps] Any
Progress?
                       11/10/2004 06:03
                       PM
                       Please respond to
                       programmercoops






Any success stories or attempts at starting businesses?  I haven't
done anything this year, but am wondering if others are still thinking
about or doing anything related to programmer cooperatives.

- Doug






Thank you for using this group. Remember, you can read archived messages,
change your settings, unsubscribe, or whatever by visiting the group URL at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/programmercoops or you can unsubscribe by
emailing
ProgrammerCoOps-UnSubscribe@YahooGroups.com - thank you.



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Yahoo! Groups Links
       To visit your group on the web, go to:
       http://groups.yahoo.com/group/programmercoops/

       To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
       programmercoops-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

       Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
!DSPAM:4192d221323131730242369!

Any success stories or attempts at starting businesses?  I haven't
done anything this year, but am wondering if others are still thinking
about or doing anything related to programmer cooperatives.

- Doug

Dear ClassicNet (now Cebridge) ISP, see the message below, I wondered why my
email wasn't getting out, it's because YOU have been blacklisted for spam, so
now ALL of your customers are suffering. I even called your phone service a
few days ago to ask why our mail wasn't getting out and they hadn't a clue. We
are not spammers, in fact we use anti-spam measures which sometimes send
rejection messages to spammers, and we use Norton anti virus and keep it
updated automatically. Find our who your spammers are and get rid of them and
get your ISP unblacklisted so we can use your service again, or else we'll
have to change ISP's again to get reliable service, and it's way too much
hassle to do that.


Robert M. Pritchett - RMP Consulting Partners LLC - member ICCA
Quality means doing it right the first time - http://rmpcp.com

.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 12:03 AM
Subject: Re: **SPAM** Re: [workerownedcoop] Important Info for workerownedcoop
Members


Your email was filtered out by my spam filter because the classicnet SMTP
server is blacklisted by DSBL.

http://dsbl.org/listing?65.83.241.170

Sounds good, we have essentially a consultants' co-op already working (see
http://rmpcp.com and
http://rmpcp.com/rmpcp-for-consultants.html and
http://rmpcp.com/news-2003-03-co-op.html for more info on this) and I think
some of our members have the appropriate skills. I'll cc: our discussion list
and any of them can respond and I can forward questions or whatever.


Robert M. Pritchett - RMP Consulting Partners LLC - member ICCA
Quality means doing it right the first time - http://rmpcp.com
Tired of hearing "W-2 only"? Work the same contract on our 1099 instead!
Email Apply at our web site above for more info. Group benefits pending.
See http://rmpcp.com/need-20-sysadmins.html for urgent opening.
See http://www.keen.com/rmpcp for legal/tax issues facing consultants.
We are not lawyers/accountants and are not giving legal/tax advice.

..
----- Original Message -----
To: <programmercoops@yahoogroups.com>;
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 07:23 PM
Subject: [ProgrammerCoOps] Looking for Web/DB programmers


(The following post is mostly geared towards programmers in
Portland, Oregon, USA.  However, I'd be happy to chat with anyone
who is interested.)


I am an independent technology consultant, mostly working on data-
driven Web application programming projects.  I am looking to meet
fellow programmers who might be interested in sharing some of the
work I have coming down the pipeline.  Before I bid on projects, I'd
like to try to line up a team of good people who can be involved
with me in these projects.

I need you to know ASP, VB/VBScript, HTML, JavaScript, and how to
connect a web app to a SQL Server, MSDE, or Access back-end.  I'm
very slowly getting into the LAMP stack, but don't have time right
now to learn those tools.  I am not in a position to train a novice,
but you don't have to be at my level -- you can be more or less
advanced.  I've been a programmer for about 6 years, working at a
small software company until a few months ago when I decided to
become a consultant.

My preference would be to find those who pride themselves on their
people skills and organization.  Intricate knowledge of the latest
ASP object model is less important in my work than some of the
intangible skills of a good programmer.

Eventually, I would like to create a company to support, improve,
and sell some of the software I/we create, and perhaps provide other
technology services.  This company would be as non-hierarchical as
possible, with a dual focus of being a great place to work AND being
pragmatic about the market and customer needs.  The company would
lean towards working with non-profits, community-based businesses,
and green/sustainable businesses.

If you are not interested in my ideas above about starting a
company, I'd stil be interested in talking to you about sharing the
workload on future projects.





Thank you for using this group. Remember, you can read archived messages, change your settings, unsubscribe, or whatever by visiting the group URL at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/programmercoops or you can unsubscribe by emailing
ProgrammerCoOps-UnSubscribe@YahooGroups.com - thank you.

---

Yahoo! Groups Links

• To visit your group on the web, go to:
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/programmercoops/
   
• To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  programmercoops-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
   
• Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Sounds good, we have essentially a consultants' co-op already working (see
http://rmpcp.com and
http://rmpcp.com/rmpcp-for-consultants.html and
http://rmpcp.com/news-2003-03-co-op.html for more info on this) and I think
some of our members have the appropriate skills. I'll cc: our discussion list
and any of them can respond and I can forward questions or whatever.


Robert M. Pritchett - RMP Consulting Partners LLC - member ICCA
Quality means doing it right the first time - http://rmpcp.com
Tired of hearing "W-2 only"? Work the same contract on our 1099 instead!
Email Apply at our web site above for more info. Group benefits pending.
See http://rmpcp.com/need-20-sysadmins.html for urgent opening.
See http://www.keen.com/rmpcp for legal/tax issues facing consultants.
We are not lawyers/accountants and are not giving legal/tax advice.

.
----- Original Message -----
To: <programmercoops@yahoogroups.com>;
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 07:23 PM
Subject: [ProgrammerCoOps] Looking for Web/DB programmers


(The following post is mostly geared towards programmers in
Portland, Oregon, USA.  However, I'd be happy to chat with anyone
who is interested.)


I am an independent technology consultant, mostly working on data-
driven Web application programming projects.  I am looking to meet
fellow programmers who might be interested in sharing some of the
work I have coming down the pipeline.  Before I bid on projects, I'd
like to try to line up a team of good people who can be involved
with me in these projects.

I need you to know ASP, VB/VBScript, HTML, JavaScript, and how to
connect a web app to a SQL Server, MSDE, or Access back-end.  I'm
very slowly getting into the LAMP stack, but don't have time right
now to learn those tools.  I am not in a position to train a novice,
but you don't have to be at my level -- you can be more or less
advanced.  I've been a programmer for about 6 years, working at a
small software company until a few months ago when I decided to
become a consultant.

My preference would be to find those who pride themselves on their
people skills and organization.  Intricate knowledge of the latest
ASP object model is less important in my work than some of the
intangible skills of a good programmer.

Eventually, I would like to create a company to support, improve,
and sell some of the software I/we create, and perhaps provide other
technology services.  This company would be as non-hierarchical as
possible, with a dual focus of being a great place to work AND being
pragmatic about the market and customer needs.  The company would
lean towards working with non-profits, community-based businesses,
and green/sustainable businesses.

If you are not interested in my ideas above about starting a
company, I'd stil be interested in talking to you about sharing the
workload on future projects.

(The following post is mostly geared towards programmers in
Portland, Oregon, USA.  However, I'd be happy to chat with anyone
who is interested.)


I am an independent technology consultant, mostly working on data-
driven Web application programming projects.  I am looking to meet
fellow programmers who might be interested in sharing some of the
work I have coming down the pipeline.  Before I bid on projects, I'd
like to try to line up a team of good people who can be involved
with me in these projects.

I need you to know ASP, VB/VBScript, HTML, JavaScript, and how to
connect a web app to a SQL Server, MSDE, or Access back-end.  I'm
very slowly getting into the LAMP stack, but don't have time right
now to learn those tools.  I am not in a position to train a novice,
but you don't have to be at my level -- you can be more or less
advanced.  I've been a programmer for about 6 years, working at a
small software company until a few months ago when I decided to
become a consultant.

My preference would be to find those who pride themselves on their
people skills and organization.  Intricate knowledge of the latest
ASP object model is less important in my work than some of the
intangible skills of a good programmer.

Eventually, I would like to create a company to support, improve,
and sell some of the software I/we create, and perhaps provide other
technology services.  This company would be as non-hierarchical as
possible, with a dual focus of being a great place to work AND being
pragmatic about the market and customer needs.  The company would
lean towards working with non-profits, community-based businesses,
and green/sustainable businesses.

If you are not interested in my ideas above about starting a
company, I'd stil be interested in talking to you about sharing the
workload on future projects.

Thanks!
Todd Robinson

toddsrobinson - at - yahoo - dot - com





Thank you for using this group. Remember, you can read archived messages, change your settings, unsubscribe, or whatever by visiting the group URL at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/programmercoops or you can unsubscribe by emailing
ProgrammerCoOps-UnSubscribe@YahooGroups.com - thank you.

---

Yahoo! Groups Links

• To visit your group on the web, go to:
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/programmercoops/
   
• To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  programmercoops-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
   
• Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

(The following post is mostly geared towards programmers in
Portland, Oregon, USA.  However, I'd be happy to chat with anyone
who is interested.)


I am an independent technology consultant, mostly working on data-
driven Web application programming projects.  I am looking to meet
fellow programmers who might be interested in sharing some of the
work I have coming down the pipeline.  Before I bid on projects, I'd
like to try to line up a team of good people who can be involved
with me in these projects.

I need you to know ASP, VB/VBScript, HTML, JavaScript, and how to
connect a web app to a SQL Server, MSDE, or Access back-end.  I'm
very slowly getting into the LAMP stack, but don't have time right
now to learn those tools.  I am not in a position to train a novice,
but you don't have to be at my level -- you can be more or less
advanced.  I've been a programmer for about 6 years, working at a
small software company until a few months ago when I decided to
become a consultant.

My preference would be to find those who pride themselves on their
people skills and organization.  Intricate knowledge of the latest
ASP object model is less important in my work than some of the
intangible skills of a good programmer.

Eventually, I would like to create a company to support, improve,
and sell some of the software I/we create, and perhaps provide other
technology services.  This company would be as non-hierarchical as
possible, with a dual focus of being a great place to work AND being
pragmatic about the market and customer needs.  The company would
lean towards working with non-profits, community-based businesses,
and green/sustainable businesses.

If you are not interested in my ideas above about starting a
company, I'd stil be interested in talking to you about sharing the
workload on future projects.

Thanks!
Todd Robinson

toddsrobinson - at - yahoo - dot - com

I forwarded this to a diverse group, thinking many of each group would be
interested. Those of you who are computer consultants (or similar technical
entrepreneurs) in the Dallas area may be interested in this.


Robert M. Pritchett - RMP Consulting Partners LLC - member ICCA
Quality means doing it right the first time - http://rmpcp.com
Tired of hearing "W-2 only"? Work the same contract on our 1099 instead!
Email Apply at our web site above for more info. Group benefits pending.
See http://www.keen.com/rmpcp for legal/tax issues facing consultants.
We are not lawyers/accountants and are not giving legal/tax advice.

.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 06:04 PM
Subject: [ICCA-DFW] ICCA Meeting Sept.16; Suspect or Prospect? Building Your
Practice


Who:  Independent Computer Consultants Association

           Dallas/Fort Worth Chapter

What: September 2003 Dinner

Speaker : David Neeley

Topic : Suspect or Prospect?
             Building Your Practice in a Down Market.

When:  Tuesday evening -- September 16, 2003

************************************************************************
****Note****

All who plan to attend,  Please send the following information to
dbneeley@...  so he can tailor the presentation to the audience   :

   1) Brief description of services or products your business provides,
   2) Any brochure you use in your business,
   3) your website address,
   4) Any other questions or relevant information.

Please forward the above info as soon as possible to give David time to
review. Anyone that sends information to David, please title the email "ICCA
Meeting" so he knows what it is.

************************************************************************

Time:  6:00 PM

Where: Ninfa's Resturant
        2701 N Stemmons Fwy
        Dallas, TX 75207-2211

        1 block west of Motor St and I35 South

Dallas/Fort Worth Chapter phone # : 214-435-4602

Free parking is available in the restaurant's lot.

*************************************************

The only cost to you is your meal.

*************************************************

Non-members are encouraged to attend.

*************************************************
Please forward this message to your friends
and other persons that may be interested in
ICCA or the programs being offered.

Neither the ICCA, its chapters, members or Board of
Directors will be liable for the acts of individuals
who consume alcohol at any ICCA related event.

Note - this may be considered a political message although it does concern our
industry, so if you don't want to read such messages, please skip this one.
Some of you receiving this message may disagree with it. Some may even be
offended - if so, that's not my intent (a clear analysis of this message and
my position will confirm that) and I apologize for any misunderstanding. I am
not a protectionist and am not prejudiced against any race, religion,
nationality, etc. and I don't think America is for US citizens only. Just
wanted to make that clear.


Those of you who still subscribe to the Talent Economy probably received a
brochure about the upcoming NACCB national conference in Oct. 22-25 with a
special conference on offshoring Oct. 25-26. Since it's here in Dallas, are
any of you interested in organizing a protest? We could issue press releases,
invite Congresspeople, etc. Our Oct. ICCA meeting will be Oct. 21, right
beforehand, so that could be useful.

To be fair, it looks like some of the programs in the conference are about
presenting a good enough value proposition to get around clients' desire to
offshore, and other topics look useful too, and if I had the time, money, and
iron stomach required to join NACCB and attend the conference and learn as
much as possible and try to help reform them from within, I probably would,
but life's too short and I've got a business to run and a wife to take care
of.

See http://rmpcp.com/naccbmem.html and its links (especially
http://rmpcp.com/naccbmem2.html ) to see what happened after I complained
about what possibly looked like Satanic symbols on the NACCB D/FW chapter's
web site (which is apparently no longer there or has been moved), and ask
around about the NACCB if you're not familiar with it - the NACCB and the ITAA
support 1706 and H-1B etc. and were either behind them or at least help keep
them going and benefit from them, even though NACCB claims to have been
founded to defend against 1706. For the most part, these are the organizations
and companies responsible for destroying our industry or at least keeping us
from having a level playing field to compete on. Heck, they should probably be
investigated under RICO.

I'm not saying we can't succeed despite this, of course, but one must
acknowledge that their blatant use of Congress to circumvent the free market
has made things harder for us. I'm not saying that there's no place at all for
some amount of foreign work visas and offshoring, but these activities have
grown way past what the free market would support or require, due to this
interference. Also see the disclaimers on the sites above, there may be some
good NACCB members out there somewhere.

Oh, another angle we can use in our arguments, besides the loss of American
jobs and talent, some of the 9/11 terrorists apparently got here on foreign
work visas and had been lost by the INS, and the private data of American
citizens (SSN's, financial info, etc.) is apparently floating around in
computers in India, China, and who knows where else. I haven't had time but
I've wanted to write some proposed legislation to prohibit any such personal
data (or the software to manipulate it) from going outside the USA.

Anyway, I'd be interested in seeing if anyone wants to help protest this
conference, write press releases, invite Congresspeople, or whatever. We also
need some people who can refute the H-1B abusers' smear tactics of calling us
racist etc. so if any of you want to help that have various minority status it
would be helpful, especially former H-1B workers who once they got their
greencards were replaced by new H-1B's. I don't have the time, energy, or
knowledge to organize this type of thing, despite my Libertarian Party
experience, but I wanted to at least suggest the idea. Thanks.


P.S.: For those of you receiving this message who are not in technical
industries such as computer programming, engineering, etc. and don't see how
the loss of American jobs in these areas can hurt you, what do you think
happens to people who are forced to give up and leave the industry entirely to
find any work at all? Now they're competing with YOUR jobhunt. I read
somewhere that the unemployment rate among American programmers 50 or older is
17% - and it's probably even worse among minorities.


Robert M. Pritchett - RMP Consulting Partners LLC - member ICCA
Quality means doing it right the first time - http://rmpcp.com
Tired of hearing "W-2 only"? Work the same contract on our 1099 instead!
Email Apply at our web site above for more info. Group benefits pending.
See http://www.keen.com/rmpcp for legal/tax issues facing consultants.
We are not lawyers/accountants and are not giving legal/tax advice.

Please excuse any duplicate messages. Our consultants who responded apparently
became unavailable, so we need fresh responses asap.

P.S. - I'm still not taking a marketing commission on this one, even though I
have every right to.

P.S. - No submissions from 3rd parties please unless your firm is a member of
ICCA, RMPCP, or a co-op, or it has no more than 5 people total, or we know
you. US citizens preferred. Work should be done in the US, not offshore.


Robert M. Pritchett - RMP Consulting Partners LLC - member ICCA
Quality means doing it right the first time - http://rmpcp.com


----- Original Message -----
From: Robert M. Pritchett
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2003 02:14 AM
Subject: [RMPCP-Reqs] Sybase and DB2 gurus needed for short project


Our newest RMPCP member has a product needing porting from Oracle to both DB2
and Sybase. My guess is that the skills required would be on the border
between systems programmers, middleware programmers, applications programmers,
and DBA's. This project would be worked
through RMPCP of course as it is in effect an internal RMPCP project (no
broker).


Robert M. Pritchett - RMP Consulting Partners LLC - member ICCA
Quality means doing it right the first time - http://rmpcp.com
Tired of hearing "W-2 only"? Work the same contract on our 1099 instead!
Email Apply at our web site above for more info. Group benefits pending.

.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2003 12:42 AM
Subject: Re: Sybase and DB2 gurus needed for short project

We have a system accounting and chargeback product
that tracks and bills for system time.
There is also a database component (currently implemented for Oracle)
that tracks database usage by attaching a trigger to a session and
capturing session usage (CPU, I/O, memory, connect time) when the
session terminates and before the session object is destructed...

We want to do the same thing with DB2.  If your person can do that,
how long would it would take (and at what rate)?
Basically, I need the session data saved in a database table for
later retrieval and reporting.  I can do the database retrieval
and reporting.  What I need help with is capturing the usage
information, in any way possible (without sampling the database,
but by using triggers on the right objects)...

Thanks

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 12:33 AM
Subject: [RMPCP-Reqs] Sybase and DB2 gurus needed for short project


I need one Sybase and one DB2 guru for a short project.
The person(s) must have good knowledge of the database tables in
order to help extract database usage data...

Please contact me for more details.  This contract can be performed
off-site...

Thanks

For those of you who don't know us, we're sort of a co-op for computer
consultants. A co-op, like a nonprofit org., often has a short or underpaid or
volunteer staff, in order to minimize overhead, at least until it can grow
enough to do better. Members take turns doing administrative and other stuff
to keep it running as needed.

This is of course the opposite of a "typical consulting firm" or "broker"
which charges huge markups to pay for their expensive offices and perqs as
well as big marketing commissions and salaries for their staff. This enables
them to afford better or more dedicated help, but of course it costs a lot
more.

My strategy for growing our firm has involved providing good service (legal
and tax issues, benefits, infrastructure, admin. stuff, etc.) to our
consultants with enough advantages to attract experienced consultants who
usually find their own clients. It has worked fairly well so far but we need
to do more. We also have referral commissions for consultants who find clients
for each other, and some of our members have used this, but not enough. We've
also been trying to find the right marketing/sales partner to do pretty much
the whole marketing and sales thing for us, like a friendly, captive broker,
but still no luck, especially for commission only. We need to grow a bit more
to realize more economies of scale and have more ability to improve our
services in these areas.

So I figure that maybe we should ask for volunteers (at least at first) to do
whatever pieces of the marketing and sales puzzle we can get done; that should
be at least somewhat helpful. If we can get someone to organize, track, and
follow up on leads, consultants, clients, opportunities, etc. (which I don't
have time to do), that should be a big help. Several of you are between
contracts and are already doing this kind of work for yourself anyway, and you
don't get paid for it except that it finally pays off when you find a contract
(or job, as some of you might be looking for or willing to accept). Well, it
should take very little additional effort to do the same for all of us, and it
could be even more rewarding.

Such a volunteer would have access to whatever other resources we have, such
as our consultants (good for brainstorming on ideas too), email groups,
prospects, etc. plus any prospects our consultants may wish to share (which
will earn them referral commissions of course). There would have to be
appropriate confidentiality, non-disclosure, avoiding conflicts of interest,
etc. of course, but within that, it's entirely understandable if your first
priority remains finding work for yourself. What can make that helpful for us
is that the work you find would be performed through us, and also while you're
looking for work for yourself, you also look for work for the rest of us and
follow it up just as seriously.

I haven't taken marketing commissions for all the work I've done promoting
RMPCP, creating our lists and marketing exposure, following up, etc. although
I have every right to; I've been doing it as an unpaid volunteer. I wanted to
keep the overhead low and help us all grow. If you do the legwork and find
work for the rest of us, though, you should certainly get some kind of
referral commission or split or something. So it's volunteer only in that
there's no guarantee of getting paid anything. You could look at the
commissions as a bonus or a secondary incentive and see the volunteer work
itself (especially with our support) as something you'd be doing anyway and
therefore worth while. Or some of you might get so good at this that it could
generate a viable income for you.

You'd need to join RMPCP if you haven't already, and we want to give existing
RMPCP members first shot at this, but ultimately we could probably use several
part time volunteers (especially as you find work and then turn to concentrate
on doing it). In an ideal consulting co-op that doesn't have dedicated support
staff, members would typically work contracts/projects when they have them,
and in between, they'd do administrative stuff, marketing, sales, etc. as
needed to help bring in the next one, so everyone would be taking turns and
rotating as needed. This is sort of what we're looking for.

Some of you have volunteered to help revamp our web site, which we appreciate,
but I still need to do some strategic and marketing planning first. Some of
you have volunteered to create a database and application for us to help with
tracking and matching, but we need someone to do the tracking and matching
etc. Volunteers could help by following up leads, matching reqs with
consultants, calling up all our members to keep in touch and get updated info
and suggestions, processing applications, marketing our consulting services to
clients, and marketing our umbrella services to consultants and companies.
These are part of what I'm doing but we need more of it done than I have time
to do, since I also have to handle all the legal, tax, financial, etc. stuff.

Please feel free to discuss this and brainstorm a bit, then let me know if
you're interested and in doing what. Thanks.


Robert M. Pritchett - RMP Consulting Partners LLC - member ICCA
Quality means doing it right the first time - http://rmpcp.com
Tired of hearing "W-2 only"? Work the same contract on our 1099 instead!
Email Apply at our web site above for more info. Group benefits pending.

Forwarding this message from Yahoo Groups.


Robert M. Pritchett - RMP Consulting Partners LLC - member ICCA
Quality means doing it right the first time - http://rmpcp.com

.
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Subject: Important Update: Yahoo! Groups Service Changes




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Oops - sorry if this message came out sounding like a plug, it wasn't intended
that way. I was writing it to our own RMPCP people to answer a question and
explain the differences and similarities between the various cases, and then I
realized that the W-2 vs. IC part at least would be informative and useful for
others, so I widened the to: list, and I forgot about figuring out the best
way to handle the RMPCP part (maybe link to a web page containing the full
article?). Sorry about that.


Robert M. Pritchett - RMP Consulting Partners LLC - member ICCA
Quality means doing it right the first time - http://rmpcp.com

YOu should consider making your byline to "Real savings are realized when
it's done right the first time"
-C
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert M. Pritchett" <EGroups@...>
To: "Discussion Group" <RMPCP-Member-Discussions@YahooGroups.com>;
"Applicants List" <RMPCP-Applicants@YahooGroups.com>; "ICCA DFW Chapter"
<ICCA-DFW@YahooGroups.com>; "Jims Jobs" <JimsJobs@YahooGroups.com>;
<myjobgenius@YahooGroups.com>; "Benefits Group"
<RMPCP-Benefits@YahooGroups.com>; <ProgrammerCoOps@YahooGroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2003 4:44 PM
Subject: [ProgrammerCoOps] (disc) Understanding Payroll/SS/SE taxes and W-2
vs. 1099/corp. and broker's cuts


> I thought that this article might help explain things to those less
> experienced in these matters. Those of you who are old pros, please excuse
the
> repetition (but it might make a good refresher). This is very simplified
and
> ignores rate caps, benefits and other deductible expenses, unemployment
and
> state taxes, and other complications, and it's approximate; its purpose is
> just to explain the basic concept.
>
>
> The 7.65% Socialist inSecurity tax (FICA/OASDI/MediCare) is paid by both
> employer and employee. Self-employed pay both halves (15.3%). This is why
you
> need to quote a bit higher rate to get the same amount if you're an
> Independent Contractor (whether incorporated or self-employed).
>
> It so happens that 7.65% is very close to 1/13, so here's an
approximation.
>
> If you're an employee, for every $13/hr. of your rate, the employer and
> employee halves of the SS tax are $1/hr. each, so your employer is paying
> $14/hr., and you're really getting $12/hr. But you have to pay income tax
on
> the $13/hr.
>
> If you're 1099 (self-employed), you need to quote $14/hr., because you
have to
> pay both halves = $2/hr., leaving you the same $12/hr. To make it work the
> same way as for employers, you get to deduct the employer half of the
> Self-Employment tax, or $1/hr., so again, you pay income tax on $13/hr.
>
> If you're incorporated, it works like both of the above examples combined.
> Normally you're an employee of your corp., so again, you need to quote
> $14/hr., your corp. as employer will pay $1/hr. out of that leaving you a
> $13/hr. wage as employee, you pay $1/hr. out of that, leaving you the same
> $12/hr. And again, you pay income tax on the same $13/hr.
>
> The next example I mention to complete the comparison, and because some
people
> asked about it and were confused.
>
> If you're working through RMPCP on our 1099, we bill the same $14/hr. and
you
> get the same $12/hr. That's why our 15% "umbrella fee" does not compare
with
> the 3-5% fee charged by other umbrellas, because ours includes that $2/hr.
> you'd have to pay anyway, and other umbrellas' quoted fees do not - apples
vs.
> oranges. Thus, our real fee is 15% - 2/14 = about 0.7%. And because we
handle
> the $2/hr. difference instead of you, you only have to pay income tax on
the
> remaining $12/hr., not $13/hr., so our fee is effectively more like 0.4%.
So
> that's why some people were confused and think we charge more, but
actually we
> charge less.
>
>
> Again, this analysis skips the complications mentioned above, but it
should
> explain the situation clearly enough for a starting point. Now you know
why
> you need to quote about 8% more as an IC to get the same amount, and why
this
> doesn't cost the broker/client any more than they'd pay as an employer (in
> fact, possibly less). That's also why when you're working through RMPCP,
you
> can quote about the same rate you'd normally quote as a 1099/corp. and
still
> get the same amount left; we effectively don't add anything to the cost.
>
>
> Another way to compare this is the general rule of thumb that seems to be
> floating around, that a good broker will take 20% of the bill rate if
you're
> 1099/corp. or 30% if you're W-2. This assumes that the broker found you
the
> client, as usual, so it includes their commission. Again, this is only
> approximate.
>
> If the broker is taking 20% and giving you 80% on 1099 or corp-to-corp,
> they're taking a 20% commission. After you pay your 15% SE tax (or your
corp
> and you split 15% in payroll taxes) of your 80%, that's 15% * 80% = 12%,
thus
> a total of 20% + 12% = 32% taken out, leaving you 68%. We're assuming no
> factoring for 1099/corp as they probably don't pay you until the client
pays
> them. OK, maybe they're doing some invoicing and maybe some factoring,
worth
> about 1%, so their commission is effectively about 19%. So, if you're an
IC
> and the broker takes 20%, you're really getting 68% of the bill rate after
SS
> taxes.
>
> If you're W-2, they're taking 20% + 10%, about 4% of which is their
factoring
> fee for paying you regularly and (hopefully) unconditionally as their
> employee, and about 6% of which is the employer half of FICA etc., leaving
> 70%. Your employee half of about 6% then leaves you with 64%. That's 4%
less
> than the 68% above, the 4% being the factoring fee. Some of the 4% is
probably
> not just for factoring but to compensate the broker for the extra legal
> requirements of being an employer. So as an employee, with the broker
taking
> 30%, you're really getting 64% of the bill rate after SS taxes.
>
> If you're working through RMPCP, there's no commission of course if you
find
> your client yourself, in which case you get 85% of the bill rate -
essentially
> the same 12/14 you'd be left with after paying the SS taxes as in the
first
> analysis above, whether you're W-2, 1099, or corp. If one of our other
> consultants finds the client for you, your fellow consultant (not RMPCP)
gets
> a 10% commission (which declines to 5% after 3 months and 0% after 6 more
> months), so you get 75% (with automatic raises to 85%). If we finally find
and
> hire a good marketing/sales partner which finds the client for you, their
> commission is 10% more (20% declining to 10%), so you get 65% (with
automatic
> raises to 75%). So at worst case, your 65% compares very well with the
64-68%
> above, and then you get automatic raises as our commission declines, while
> typical brokers' commissions hang on forever.
>
> And of course many brokers take far more than the 20%/30% of the bill rate
> above. I had one once that took 35% (instead of 20%) on a 1099, and I've
heard
> even worse.
>
>
> Robert M. Pritchett - RMP Consulting Partners LLC - member ICCA
> Quality means doing it right the first time - http://rmpcp.com
> Tired of hearing "W-2 only"? Work the same contract on our 1099 instead!
> Email Apply at our web site above for more info. Group benefits pending.
> See http://www.keen.com/rmpcp for legal/tax issues facing consultants.
> We are not lawyers/accountants and are not giving legal/tax advice.
>
>
>
>
>
> Thank you for using this group. Remember, you can read archived messages,
change your settings, unsubscribe, or whatever by visiting the group URL at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/programmercoops or you can unsubscribe by
emailing
> ProgrammerCoOps-UnSubscribe@YahooGroups.com - thank you.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

I thought that this article might help explain things to those less
experienced in these matters. Those of you who are old pros, please excuse the
repetition (but it might make a good refresher). This is very simplified and
ignores rate caps, benefits and other deductible expenses, unemployment and
state taxes, and other complications, and it's approximate; its purpose is
just to explain the basic concept.


The 7.65% Socialist inSecurity tax (FICA/OASDI/MediCare) is paid by both
employer and employee. Self-employed pay both halves (15.3%). This is why you
need to quote a bit higher rate to get the same amount if you're an
Independent Contractor (whether incorporated or self-employed).

It so happens that 7.65% is very close to 1/13, so here's an approximation.

If you're an employee, for every $13/hr. of your rate, the employer and
employee halves of the SS tax are $1/hr. each, so your employer is paying
$14/hr., and you're really getting $12/hr. But you have to pay income tax on
the $13/hr.

If you're 1099 (self-employed), you need to quote $14/hr., because you have to
pay both halves = $2/hr., leaving you the same $12/hr. To make it work the
same way as for employers, you get to deduct the employer half of the
Self-Employment tax, or $1/hr., so again, you pay income tax on $13/hr.

If you're incorporated, it works like both of the above examples combined.
Normally you're an employee of your corp., so again, you need to quote
$14/hr., your corp. as employer will pay $1/hr. out of that leaving you a
$13/hr. wage as employee, you pay $1/hr. out of that, leaving you the same
$12/hr. And again, you pay income tax on the same $13/hr.

The next example I mention to complete the comparison, and because some people
asked about it and were confused.

If you're working through RMPCP on our 1099, we bill the same $14/hr. and you
get the same $12/hr. That's why our 15% "umbrella fee" does not compare with
the 3-5% fee charged by other umbrellas, because ours includes that $2/hr.
you'd have to pay anyway, and other umbrellas' quoted fees do not - apples vs.
oranges. Thus, our real fee is 15% - 2/14 = about 0.7%. And because we handle
the $2/hr. difference instead of you, you only have to pay income tax on the
remaining $12/hr., not $13/hr., so our fee is effectively more like 0.4%. So
that's why some people were confused and think we charge more, but actually we
charge less.


Again, this analysis skips the complications mentioned above, but it should
explain the situation clearly enough for a starting point. Now you know why
you need to quote about 8% more as an IC to get the same amount, and why this
doesn't cost the broker/client any more than they'd pay as an employer (in
fact, possibly less). That's also why when you're working through RMPCP, you
can quote about the same rate you'd normally quote as a 1099/corp. and still
get the same amount left; we effectively don't add anything to the cost.


Another way to compare this is the general rule of thumb that seems to be
floating around, that a good broker will take 20% of the bill rate if you're
1099/corp. or 30% if you're W-2. This assumes that the broker found you the
client, as usual, so it includes their commission. Again, this is only
approximate.

If the broker is taking 20% and giving you 80% on 1099 or corp-to-corp,
they're taking a 20% commission. After you pay your 15% SE tax (or your corp
and you split 15% in payroll taxes) of your 80%, that's 15% * 80% = 12%, thus
a total of 20% + 12% = 32% taken out, leaving you 68%. We're assuming no
factoring for 1099/corp as they probably don't pay you until the client pays
them. OK, maybe they're doing some invoicing and maybe some factoring, worth
about 1%, so their commission is effectively about 19%. So, if you're an IC
and the broker takes 20%, you're really getting 68% of the bill rate after SS
taxes.

If you're W-2, they're taking 20% + 10%, about 4% of which is their factoring
fee for paying you regularly and (hopefully) unconditionally as their
employee, and about 6% of which is the employer half of FICA etc., leaving
70%. Your employee half of about 6% then leaves you with 64%. That's 4% less
than the 68% above, the 4% being the factoring fee. Some of the 4% is probably
not just for factoring but to compensate the broker for the extra legal
requirements of being an employer. So as an employee, with the broker taking
30%, you're really getting 64% of the bill rate after SS taxes.

If you're working through RMPCP, there's no commission of course if you find
your client yourself, in which case you get 85% of the bill rate - essentially
the same 12/14 you'd be left with after paying the SS taxes as in the first
analysis above, whether you're W-2, 1099, or corp. If one of our other
consultants finds the client for you, your fellow consultant (not RMPCP) gets
a 10% commission (which declines to 5% after 3 months and 0% after 6 more
months), so you get 75% (with automatic raises to 85%). If we finally find and
hire a good marketing/sales partner which finds the client for you, their
commission is 10% more (20% declining to 10%), so you get 65% (with automatic
raises to 75%). So at worst case, your 65% compares very well with the 64-68%
above, and then you get automatic raises as our commission declines, while
typical brokers' commissions hang on forever.

And of course many brokers take far more than the 20%/30% of the bill rate
above. I had one once that took 35% (instead of 20%) on a 1099, and I've heard
even worse.


Robert M. Pritchett - RMP Consulting Partners LLC - member ICCA
Quality means doing it right the first time - http://rmpcp.com
Tired of hearing "W-2 only"? Work the same contract on our 1099 instead!
Email Apply at our web site above for more info. Group benefits pending.
See http://www.keen.com/rmpcp for legal/tax issues facing consultants.
We are not lawyers/accountants and are not giving legal/tax advice.

Hi Todd,
          I'll carve up your message in reply.

Todd Robinson wrote:
> Gareth,
>
> Thanks for your email.  After reading it, and
> re-reading my initial post, I realized that I
> mis-stated what my goal is for a cooperative.
>
> I wrote: "I want the business to be set up the way I
> want it set up, from the beginning."
>
> What I meant to say is something like this:  "I want
> to be involved in a business from the start, and I
> want the business to be set up and run in a thorough,
> organized, and reasonably process-oriented way.  I
> want important issues to be addressed up front that
> _can_ be put off in the short-term, but that are
> valuable long-term.  I want to help create and sustain
> a culture of excellent communication, proper
> expectation-setting, and explicitly valuing of
> differences of ideas or people."

This is a  reasonable sounding starting point for discussion with other
cooperators.

>
> My initial statement was a little extreme-sounding.
> That comes from trying to transmit information
> concisely but quickly -- Mark Twain once wrote to a
> friend at the end of a very long letter [I'm
> paraphrasing], "I apologize for the extreme length of
> this letter, but I did not have time to write a
> shorter one."

I am glad you mention Mark Twain. It brings a sense of proportion into
another wise sensible discussion. How about that?
Or perhaps <I made some extreme remarks just to make sure you don't
listen.> not so good.

In addition, I have been with a company
> for 5 1/2 years where I started above my boss's
> garage, but we are now at 12 employees and growing at
> 50% a year, and I never felt like things were handled
> in a way that really works for me (although I like a
> respect my co-workers).

That is more like it!

>
> Does that explain my situation better?  Personally, I
> do think it is reasonable and appropriate to
> articulate what kind of an organization one is willing
> to be involved in, and it is important to address
> these issues up front with others who one might work
> with.
>
> In my opinion, my ideal type of organization is very
> cooperative, and I think most people would eventually
> thrive in such an organization, but it has fairly high
> expectations of people and their willingness and
> ability to work together in a positive and open way.
> I guess if I entered into lengthy discussions with
> someone, they might end up feeling that certain
> elements of cooperation are insufficient in the type
> of organization I propose.

May I forward this to Total Coverage of Southampton,England or are you
familiar with their work already? They may be interested in what you
have to say?  They also run coopnet a mail group, many of whose members
are very knowledgeable about Coop formation and ethics, not just in UK.
you may get some replies from others , most of whom know a good deal
more about these aspects below than I do.
Great to hear your enthusiasm.

I can't find the exact subscribe address for the moment but it will get
to you I expect. I think it is Co-opnet-on@...

Best wishes    Gar

>
> Here are some notes I just made today about the
> communication, process, and expectation-setting
> aspects of a cooperative business (or other
> non-hierarchical organization, such as a
> consensus-based non-profit that is not technically a
> cooperative corporation).  I'd love to hear any
> feedback that anyone has:
>
>
>  > Human resources and organizational-process issues
> are extremely important to a successful organization
> that is a pleasure to work for
>
>  > Expectations should be set up front to every member
> about what the organization's mission and practices
> are
>
>  > There should be ongoing communication and evaluation
> in a non-threatening, constructive manner
>
>  > There should be a clear message that everyone is
> learning and growing all the time
>
>  > Differences in employee motivations, values,
> preferences, styles of work, etc. should be discussed,
> established, and appreciated -- the goal is synthesis,
> but everyone should acknowledge when synthesis of
> certain differences doesn't work
>
>  > A limited version of all this should take place with
> customers, as is possible given the relationship with
> the customers
>
>  > There should be a position at the organization
> called "Director, Communication and Processes" (or
> "Administrator, Communication and Processes" or
> something else that is more appropriate for the
> coop/consensus setup); this person is responsible for
> championing the communication/process goals of the
> organization, and for working with all members to
> ensure that the goals permeate the day-to-day workings
> of the organization
>
>  > It is important to acknowledge that there will never
> be enough time to do everything the absolute right
> way, but it should be an ideal that all employees keep
> in mind and strive for
>
>  > As part of the above, processes and communication
> issues should be prioritized; it is critical to find
> time for the core components, whereas non-core but
> important components can be explicitly postponed but
> then worked into the organization when the time is
> right
>
>  > All processes should be documented and referred to
> in a thorough fashion; everyone needs to appreciate
> the value that this brings to the organization
>
>
> Regards,
> Todd
>
>
>
> --- gar <gar@...> wrote:
>  > Hi Todd,
>  >          I can't work out what name I have got on
>  > <<programmercoops>> so
>  > I just go on reading 'em!
>  >
>  >           Possibly in answer to your thoughts below,
>  > there are a good
>  > many sole trader coops about, and I did think of the
>  > same with my
>  > livestock bees until I realised that it is much
>  > better to join an
>  > already existing coop where there are real people
>  > already working
>  > together.
>  >
>  > I am an area coop  elected representative in the UK,
>  > and on the CDA ...
>  > ( coop development association) and I come across a
>  > number of sole
>  > traders who remain just that as coop organisation. I
>  > suppose that it is
>  > the desire to <<start something, make one's mark>>
>  > or something like that.
>  >
>  > Your style of language below, if you will allow me
>  > to say so,
>  > suggests that you only want to do it your own way
>  > anyway.... so there
>  > would not be much point in cooperating?
>  >
>  > Cooperative business is where the sum of the whole
>  > is greater than the
>  > sum of the parts through cooperation; what you seem
>  > to want
>  > is one of the parts to dominate all the others right
>  > from the beginning.
>  > I don't think that is really cooperation.
>  >
>  > Perhaps you are only talking tongue in cheek, and
>  > teasing out a dialogue
>  > with me. Good luck with your coop campaigns... join
>  > in with some others
>  > to do so!!
>  >
>  > Regards,
>  >
>  > Gareth
>  >
>  >
>  > Todd Robinson wrote:
>  > > I have been a developer for 5-6 years, working
>  > with
>  > > mostly Microsoft technologies to produce software
>  > that
>  > > helps manage clinical research.  I recently
>  > decided it
>  > > was time to make a change and start a new
>  > business,
>  > > and I will begin that on 11/1.  I want the
>  > business to
>  > > be set up the way I want it set up, from the
>  > > beginning.  I will begin by myself, seeking
>  > clients in
>  > > clinnical research for custom programming and
>  > database
>  > > projects.  However, I would like to expand beyond
>  > > clinical research and into other IT and business
>  > > services besides programming.  And, most
>  > importantly,
>  > > I would like to find other like-minded individuals
>  > to
>  > > form a cooperative programming, IT, and business
>  > > services company.  Long-term, I'd like my clients
>  > to
>  > > be primarily nonprofits and alternative
>  > businesses;
>  > > short-term, in order to generate sufficient
>  > revenue
>  > > and replace my income, I'm starting with more
>  > > mainstream clients.
>  > >
>  > > Todd Robinson
>  > > Portland, OR
>  > > toddsrobinson@...
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  >
>

Gareth,

Thanks for your email.  After reading it, and
re-reading my initial post, I realized that I
mis-stated what my goal is for a cooperative.

I wrote: "I want the business to be set up the way I
want it set up, from the beginning."

What I meant to say is something like this:  "I want
to be involved in a business from the start, and I
want the business to be set up and run in a thorough,
organized, and reasonably process-oriented way.  I
want important issues to be addressed up front that
_can_ be put off in the short-term, but that are
valuable long-term.  I want to help create and sustain
a culture of excellent communication, proper
expectation-setting, and explicitly valuing of
differences of ideas or people."

My initial statement was a little extreme-sounding.
That comes from trying to transmit information
concisely but quickly -- Mark Twain once wrote to a
friend at the end of a very long letter [I'm
paraphrasing], "I apologize for the extreme length of
this letter, but I did not have time to write a
shorter one."  In addition, I have been with a company
for 5 1/2 years where I started above my boss's
garage, but we are now at 12 employees and growing at
50% a year, and I never felt like things were handled
in a way that really works for me (although I like a
respect my co-workers).

Does that explain my situation better?  Personally, I
do think it is reasonable and appropriate to
articulate what kind of an organization one is willing
to be involved in, and it is important to address
these issues up front with others who one might work
with.

In my opinion, my ideal type of organization is very
cooperative, and I think most people would eventually
thrive in such an organization, but it has fairly high
expectations of people and their willingness and
ability to work together in a positive and open way.
I guess if I entered into lengthy discussions with
someone, they might end up feeling that certain
elements of cooperation are insufficient in the type
of organization I propose.

Here are some notes I just made today about the
communication, process, and expectation-setting
aspects of a cooperative business (or other
non-hierarchical organization, such as a
consensus-based non-profit that is not technically a
cooperative corporation).  I'd love to hear any
feedback that anyone has:


> Human resources and organizational-process issues
are extremely important to a successful organization
that is a pleasure to work for

> Expectations should be set up front to every member
about what the organization's mission and practices
are

> There should be ongoing communication and evaluation
in a non-threatening, constructive manner

> There should be a clear message that everyone is
learning and growing all the time

> Differences in employee motivations, values,
preferences, styles of work, etc. should be discussed,
established, and appreciated -- the goal is synthesis,
but everyone should acknowledge when synthesis of
certain differences doesn't work

> A limited version of all this should take place with
customers, as is possible given the relationship with
the customers

> There should be a position at the organization
called "Director, Communication and Processes" (or
"Administrator, Communication and Processes" or
something else that is more appropriate for the
coop/consensus setup); this person is responsible for
championing the communication/process goals of the
organization, and for working with all members to
ensure that the goals permeate the day-to-day workings
of the organization

> It is important to acknowledge that there will never
be enough time to do everything the absolute right
way, but it should be an ideal that all employees keep
in mind and strive for

> As part of the above, processes and communication
issues should be prioritized; it is critical to find
time for the core components, whereas non-core but
important components can be explicitly postponed but
then worked into the organization when the time is
right

> All processes should be documented and referred to
in a thorough fashion; everyone needs to appreciate
the value that this brings to the organization


Regards,
Todd



--- gar <gar@...> wrote:
> Hi Todd,
>          I can't work out what name I have got on
> <<programmercoops>> so
> I just go on reading 'em!
>
>           Possibly in answer to your thoughts below,
> there are a good
> many sole trader coops about, and I did think of the
> same with my
> livestock bees until I realised that it is much
> better to join an
> already existing coop where there are real people
> already working
> together.
>
> I am an area coop  elected representative in the UK,
> and on the CDA ...
> ( coop development association) and I come across a
> number of sole
> traders who remain just that as coop organisation. I
> suppose that it is
> the desire to <<start something, make one's mark>>
> or something like that.
>
> Your style of language below, if you will allow me
> to say so,
> suggests that you only want to do it your own way
> anyway.... so there
> would not be much point in cooperating?
>
> Cooperative business is where the sum of the whole
> is greater than the
> sum of the parts through cooperation; what you seem
> to want
> is one of the parts to dominate all the others right
> from the beginning.
> I don't think that is really cooperation.
>
> Perhaps you are only talking tongue in cheek, and
> teasing out a dialogue
> with me. Good luck with your coop campaigns... join
> in with some others
> to do so!!
>
> Regards,
>
> Gareth
>
>
> Todd Robinson wrote:
> > I have been a developer for 5-6 years, working
> with
> > mostly Microsoft technologies to produce software
> that
> > helps manage clinical research.  I recently
> decided it
> > was time to make a change and start a new
> business,
> > and I will begin that on 11/1.  I want the
> business to
> > be set up the way I want it set up, from the
> > beginning.  I will begin by myself, seeking
> clients in
> > clinnical research for custom programming and
> database
> > projects.  However, I would like to expand beyond
> > clinical research and into other IT and business
> > services besides programming.  And, most
> importantly,
> > I would like to find other like-minded individuals
> to
> > form a cooperative programming, IT, and business
> > services company.  Long-term, I'd like my clients
> to
> > be primarily nonprofits and alternative
> businesses;
> > short-term, in order to generate sufficient
> revenue
> > and replace my income, I'm starting with more
> > mainstream clients.
> >
> > Todd Robinson
> > Portland, OR
> > toddsrobinson@...
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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