I've had several people ask for descriptions and pictures of how I
installed the MKII regs and the battery heaters, so I've updated my Web
page with the info:
http://www.casadelgato.com/EV/MySparrow.htm
--
John G. Lussmyer      mailto:Cougar@...
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....  http://www.CasaDelGato.com

I received this message on one of my other groups, and thought some
of you might be interested in this info.

Craig Angard





If you use YAHOO for anything Please read below. I think you have to
opt out
on all your email accounts.


Subject: Yahoo and Your PRIVACY!
>
> Remember when Yahoo screwed us all by redoing our sign ups, and
> allowing
> everyone and their mom to send us spam? Well, they are up to their
> tricks
> again...
>
> Yahoo is now using something called "Web Beacons" to track
> YahooGroups users around the net & see what you are doing, seems
> these beacons work like cookies... Go to this URL:
>
> http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us/pixels/details.html
>
> About halfway down the page (on the right side), in the "Outside the
> Yahoo! Network" section, there is a tiny little "click here" link at
> the end of the paragraph that lets you OPT OUT of their electronic
> snooping.
>
>
> Click on it and it will take you to a second page. Do NOT click the
> link on
> the second page, because this will actually resubscribe you to their
spy list

Exactly which Karmen Ghia brake pads should I put on my Sparrow?

I have an appointment at the brake shop tomorrow and they want specific
pads.

Thanks

Andrew Carver

-----Original Message-----
From: cruisinhummer [mailto:cruisinhummer@...]
Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 3:08 PM
To: sparrow_ev@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sparrow_ev] Re: Brakes


Did you happen to write down the part number or the year of the
Kharman Ghia you used?

Thanks

Duc Nguyen

--- In sparrow_ev@y..., "Tom Bithell" <tbithell@y...> wrote:
> Last night I finally got around to changing my brake pads to
attempt
> to eliminate the incredible squeek/scream/squeel coming from them.
I
> used the Kharman Ghea pads that someone (Jonathan Frieman????)
> recomended in a post long ago as I already had the 'non-squeel'
> willwood pads on mine.
>
> It was so nice to drive to the office today with Christmas carrols
> playing on the CD player, the whine of the electric motor, a small
> hum from the belt drive and no other noise.  The best part was that
> no one in another car clapped their hands over their ears when I
> stopped at a stop light.  Silence is golden.
>
> The switch wasn't hard.  The hardest thing was getting the Sparrow
> jacked up using my Ford Windstar jack.
>
> Tom Bithell, Number 5



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
sparrow_ev-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

1967-1972 VW Karmann-Ghia
MUST be single pin style

Brian Phillips
VIN #206

--- In sparrow_ev@y..., "Andrew Carver" <carver@w...> wrote
> I have an appointment at the brake shop tomorrow and they want specific
> pads.
>
> Andrew Carver

I have been out of the office, and away from the internet, since I
changed the brake pads on my Sparrow, but have driven her faithfully
without a single squeek.  There have been lots of postings about the
anti-brake squeel stuff you put on the back of the pads.  I used
some.  It is bright red and gets everywhere.  After I put on the
first set of pads I got smart and put on surgical gloves to protect
myself.  The pads were for a 72 Karman Ghea (spelling?) and each
brake shop has there own part number so a specific listing won't help
much.  Just describe it to them and they can get them - and get the
one pin pads.  The 2 pin pads won't work.

Tom Bithell, Number 5


> I have an appointment at the brake shop tomorrow and they want
specific
> pads.
>
> Thanks
>
> Andrew Carver
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cruisinhummer [mailto:cruisinhummer@y...]
> Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 3:08 PM
> To: sparrow_ev@y...
> Subject: [sparrow_ev] Re: Brakes
>
>
> Did you happen to write down the part number or the year of the
> Kharman Ghia you used?
>
> Thanks
>
> Duc Nguyen
>

Hi Sparrownauts,

My email has been down today due to computer problems.  They've been fixed and I
should be back up tomorrow.

To Jim Diebly in Singapore, I'll be putting the deposit down on your km speedo
tomorrow morning.

Apologies if I missed anyone or anything.

EVet
CB


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gotta love web based mail systems...

Okay, so I was at Costco in Mountain View tonight and
they've got Optima Blue Tops for sale...$146 ea.

Not the greatest price, but just being at Costco...


Ray

Which model Blue Top did they have?  There are or at
least used to be two models, 34M and D34M.  The D34M
is a Yellow Top with marine terminals added and of course
a blue top.  The 34M is a starting battery like the Red
Top.  Read about these batteries at
http://www.1st-optima-batteries.com/



--- In sparrow_ev@y..., "rcurieljr" <ray@c...> wrote:
>
> Gotta love web based mail systems...
>
> Okay, so I was at Costco in Mountain View tonight and
> they've got Optima Blue Tops for sale...$146 ea.
>
> Not the greatest price, but just being at Costco...
>
>
> Ray

The Costco in San Leandro also has the blue top deep cycles. Optima
uses light gray cases for their deep cycle batteries and dark gray
for the starting batteries. All the red tops have dark gray cases and
all yellow tops have light gray cases. Blue tops (marine) come in
both light (deep cycle) and dark (starting) gray cases.

Brian Phillips
VIN #206 (Blue top "recons" put in last year by Corbin)

--- In sparrow_ev@y..., "tomshay" <tomshay@y...> wrote:
> Which model Blue Top did they have?  There are or at
> least used to be two models, 34M and D34M.  The D34M
> is a Yellow Top with marine terminals added and of course
> a blue top.  The 34M is a starting battery like the Red
> Top.

The weather has turned cold here in Colorado
and the range of my Sparrow is greatly reduced.
I drive ~13 miles most days, recharging only when
I am home for the day.  My voltage sometimes dips
below 140V when drawing 100A before I get home.

There are just over 3000 miles on the Sparrow
which has a blemish/referb pack that was installed
just over year ago at about 300 miles.

Given other people's postings, it is not too
suprising that the batteries are giving out.
Several people have gotten fewer miles out of
their packs.

I charged the pack and then checked the voltages
the next day.  All batteries were within 0.1 volts
of each other.

I drove as far as I could and checked the voltages
again.  This time all were within 0.1 volts except
two which were 0.4V lower than the others.  I
started charging and went out and bought a 12 volt
battery charger.  My thought was that the two low
batteries needed a little extra charge.

Just before the regular charge cycle finished I
checked the voltages again.  My two low voltage
batteries were now 0.4V HIGHER than the rest of
the pack.  I put the new charger back in the box.
It will come in handy eventually, but for now it
is a $50 mistake.

My theory now is that these two batteries have a
lower capacity than the rest.  Each time I cycle
my batteries I damage them.  If the DOD of a cell
is only my usual 25%, the damage is small.  The
DOD of these lower capacity cells may have been
40% at one point, but is now ~100%.  They each
are damaged more per day than the rest of the cells.

It seems like there is a slippery slope here.  If
one or two cells are slightly weaker than the other
78, they will become weaker at a faster rate than the
rest.

I can think of no reason that these bad cells would
hurt any of the other cells in the string.  I am
thinking of replacing just the two batteries in
the pack.

Is this a waste of $300-$400 on two new yellow tops?

Have many people replaced one or two batteries and
had success?

Wade

> It seems like there is a slippery slope here.  If
> one or two cells are slightly weaker than the other
> 78, they will become weaker at a faster rate than the
> rest.

True, but you should be more concerned about the health of the OK batteries.
The one or two weak cells will drain the better ones relative to DOD. Reduce
distance between charging if possible, or as you say -replace the weak ones -
try to get a couple used but good or maybe something off the clearance shelf
at the local Batteries plus.

>
>
> I can think of no reason that these bad cells would
> hurt any of the other cells in the string.  I am
> thinking of replacing just the two batteries in
> the pack.
>
> Is this a waste of $300-$400 on two new yellow tops?
>
> Have many people replaced one or two batteries and
> had success?
>
> Wade
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> sparrow_ev-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Corbin Motors' web site at
http://www.corbinmotors.com/dailynews.html

announced the arrival of new A C controllers for
Sparrows and included pictures of them.

I have decided that the time has come to sell my old friend, given
that I have neither the expertise nor the time to keep her in
running shape myself. (Current issue is a burned out converter and a
couple dead batteries.) If any of you have tips for pricing and/or
selling a Sparrow, or are interested in buying one (another? :)
yourself, please fire me some mail at BEArboga@....

Regretfully,

    Brian Arbogast
    Seattle, WA

UUade@... wrote:
>
> The weather has turned cold here in Colorado
> and the range of my Sparrow is greatly reduced.

Even here in the Bay Area winter is tough on the little birds. You
probably should invest in some battery heating technology.


> I drive ~13 miles most days, recharging only when
> I am home for the day.  My voltage sometimes dips
> below 140V when drawing 100A before I get home.

If we assume that our packs are really good for 45AH, then we ought
not draw more than about 22AH before charging to keep the battery
life up. I would not be even slightly surprised if the winter
performance is something like 15-20AH, so without heaters, 7-10AH is
about all we could expect.


>
> There are just over 3000 miles on the Sparrow
> which has a blemish/referb pack that was installed
> just over year ago at about 300 miles.

So you didn't exactly start with a clean slate ;<
>
>
Z checked the voltages again.  My two low voltage
> batteries were now 0.4V HIGHER than the rest of
> the pack.  I put the new charger back in the box.
> It will come in handy eventually, but for now it
> is a $50 mistake.

Probably not. Let the pack cool overnight and measure again. Or if
you aren't driving for a couple of days let it cool and measure
again. I'll bet that the two are low again. My guess is that they
are heating first (weaker batteries have higher internal resistence,
thus more internal heating) once they are hot, their capacity goes
up and they are temporarily *more* capable than the others. But it's
temporary.

> It seems like there is a slippery slope here.  If
> one or two cells are slightly weaker than the other
> 78, they will become weaker at a faster rate than the
> rest.

worse, they stress the rest of the pack.


>
> I can think of no reason that these bad cells would
> hurt any of the other cells in the string.  I am

Think of the limiting case, they go to just above 0 (at zero, pack
doesn't function) the rest of the cells are being stressed *a lot*.


> thinking of replacing just the two batteries in
> the pack.
>
> Is this a waste of $300-$400 on two new yellow tops?


Better, find another EVer selling some used yellow tops ... like
John in an earlier posting.

Thanks to EdThorpe and Clare, I swapped out about half my batteries
and have gotten an extra 3k miles out of the pack. If my commute
were a few miles shorter, I'd probably be able to get another 3K out
of them. Since my commute isn't, I've asked Clare to sign me up for
a new pack at which point we'll install EdAng's regulators and we'll
see how far I can drive a pack from new ;>


--
Keith H. Bierman    keith.bierman@...|
Sun Microsystems Laboratories            | kbierman@...
15 Network Circle UMPK 15-224            | 650-352-4432 voice+fax
Menlo Park, California  94025            | sun internal 68207
<speaking for myself, not Sun*> Copyright 2002

I found last winter that cold weather drastically reduces range due to
battery chemistry.

            M. Bonnie
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Worthington <chrisdw@...>
To: <sparrow_ev@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 10:25 PM
Subject: Re: [sparrow_ev] Battery death


>
>
>
> > It seems like there is a slippery slope here.  If
> > one or two cells are slightly weaker than the other
> > 78, they will become weaker at a faster rate than the
> > rest.
>
> True, but you should be more concerned about the health of the OK
batteries.
> The one or two weak cells will drain the better ones relative to DOD.
Reduce
> distance between charging if possible, or as you say -replace the weak
ones -
> try to get a couple used but good or maybe something off the clearance
shelf
> at the local Batteries plus.
>
> >
> >
> > I can think of no reason that these bad cells would
> > hurt any of the other cells in the string.  I am
> > thinking of replacing just the two batteries in
> > the pack.
> >
> > Is this a waste of $300-$400 on two new yellow tops?
> >
> > Have many people replaced one or two batteries and
> > had success?
> >
> > Wade
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > sparrow_ev-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> sparrow_ev-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

I got the Phoenix back from Corbin this past Thursday.  After letting
it charge when I got home, I took it out for a spin that night.  It
was great!  Still had stereo problems but I was happy the car was
running great.  I took the car on to Lawrence expressway for a stretch
and got her up to 55mph.  After a few minutes of driving around, I was
impressed and may get another one sometime in the future.

Now for my questions:
1)  Headlight.  Does anyone know what kind of lamp this is (H4, H1,
etc.)?  From searching the archives, I know John L. inquired about an
HID upgrade.  Was this successful, John?  Anyone else try this upgrade
or try to replace the headlamp?

2)  turn/brake/backup/interior lights.  I'd like to do LED upgrades
all  around for these lights.  Does anyone know what kind of bulbs are
in each of these locations?  I'm assuming the brake lights are 1157
(what I can discern from the manual) and the backuip light is a 1156
(?).  How about the front turn signals and dash lights?

3)  aux battery for stereo.  I want to put in a 14th battery to run
the stereo which I'm thinking about upgrading (put in better speakers
and maybe even a "flat" subwoofer out of an Acura TL).  I'm assuming I
can just "clip" the wires from the stereo and run them to the 14th
battery with a new fuse box along the way.  Also, should I put the
lights/windows/etc. on this 14th battery as well?  I was thinking
everything else works fine, why muck around with it....just put the
stereo on the extra battery and all will be well, right?

At any rate, thanks for everyone's help in the past.  I think we're
going to keep the Phoenix for sometime.  Both Ginger (my wife) and I
think it's a great little car.

Tommy

At 08:43 PM 12/6/2002 +0000, khbkhb wrote:
>If we assume that our packs are really good for 45AH, then we ought
>not draw more than about 22AH before charging to keep the battery

By the time you take Peukert into account, I think 35AH is more like it.

--
John G. Lussmyer      mailto:Cougar@...
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....  http://www.CasaDelGato.com

At 08:28 AM 12/7/2002 +0000, Tommy <titaniumtommy@...> wrote:
>Now for my questions:
>1)  Headlight.  Does anyone know what kind of lamp this is (H4, H1,
>etc.)?  From searching the archives, I know John L. inquired about an
>HID upgrade.  Was this successful, John?  Anyone else try this upgrade
>or try to replace the headlamp?

I'm pretty sure it's a sealed beam.  I didn't do the HID upgrade due to 2
things:
A) cost - several hundred $$
B) Engineering.  Since the existing light is a sealed beam, you have to
find a replacement that takes an H1 style insert, and probably modify the
mounts appropriately.

>3)  aux battery for stereo.  I want to put in a 14th battery to run
>the stereo which I'm thinking about upgrading (put in better speakers

The stereo really doesn't draw that much power, so you can probably do what
others have done.  Add a small 12v battery in parallel with the DC-DC
converter.  This way you don't have to worry about separate chargers.

--
John G. Lussmyer      mailto:Cougar@...
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....  http://www.CasaDelGato.com

Well, I thought I got my EVet machine fixed, but it still seems to be locking up
and throwing fatal exception errors. I'm getting emails, but it is a bit of a
fight and is slowing me down considerably.  Everyone who has been trying to
contact me, please bear with the delays. I WILL get back to you.

EVet
CB



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hmmm, I think I'm going to take the headlight to a Kragen or similar
place and see what will fit.  As for the extra battery, I would have
to wire it parallel inbetween the DC/DC and 12V fuse box right?  Would
the Zivan charge it if it's wired this way?

thanks
Tommy

--- In sparrow_ev@yahoogroups.com, "John G. Lussmyer" <Cougar@C...> wrote:
> At 08:28 AM 12/7/2002 +0000, Tommy <titaniumtommy@y...> wrote:
> >Now for my questions:
> >1)  Headlight.  Does anyone know what kind of lamp this is (H4, H1,
> >etc.)?  From searching the archives, I know John L. inquired about an
> >HID upgrade.  Was this successful, John?  Anyone else try this upgrade
> >or try to replace the headlamp?
>
> I'm pretty sure it's a sealed beam.  I didn't do the HID upgrade due
to 2
> things:
> A) cost - several hundred $$
> B) Engineering.  Since the existing light is a sealed beam, you have to
> find a replacement that takes an H1 style insert, and probably
modify the
> mounts appropriately.
>
> >3)  aux battery for stereo.  I want to put in a 14th battery to run
> >the stereo which I'm thinking about upgrading (put in better speakers
>
> The stereo really doesn't draw that much power, so you can probably
do what
> others have done.  Add a small 12v battery in parallel with the DC-DC
> converter.  This way you don't have to worry about separate chargers.
>
> --
> John G. Lussmyer      mailto:Cougar@C...
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com

1) What is the group consensus on phase 3 & 4 of charging?  Should it
be done every time? once a week?  My wife will average about 11-12
miles a day.  I've read through a lot of the archived messages and it
seems like the general advice is to use the pack about 50% then charge
rather than charging every chance we get, is this true?  So here are
the options:

a) charge every day with phase 3 & 4
b) charge every day without phase 3 & 4 (run finishing phase once a
week)
c) charge every other day with phase 3 & 4
d) charge every other day without phase 3 & 4 (run finishing phase
once a week)

Any ideas?  The pack is basically new so I wanna try to take care of
them from the beginning so they have a long life.

2) E-meter.  Today, my wife drove the Sparrow from Santa Clara to
Stanford (about 34 miles roundtrip).  Starting standing voltage when
she set out was 169V.  When she got home, I checked the e-meter and it
was reading 142V but the green bars at the top of the e-meter was
missing only one bar.  I know we're not supposed to drive the Sparrow
when the voltage dips below 135, but how do I interpret this?  On one
hand the battery pack was at 142V and dropping below 135 (under load)
a few times just as we neared home but the green bars at the top of
the e-meter read that the pack was about 50-75% full (one bar gone).
It seemed like we were running out of juice but why was the emeter
showing a lot of green bars?  How do I determine how much juice is
left the pack?  I know it has to do with Amp hours, but I'm not sure
how to interpret these (College EE classes were so long ago :).  What
about the voltage and the green bars?  What do those tell me?

3)  How are powercheqs and regulators different?  Do I need one or the
other (or both)?  What do these cost?

The little bird is growing on us very quickly...but it looks like it's
going to be an expensive road ahead...sigh.

Anyway, thanks for everyone's help in answering questions.
Tommy

At 02:28 AM 12/8/2002 +0000, Tommy <titaniumtommy@...> wrote:
>As for the extra battery, I would have
>to wire it parallel inbetween the DC/DC and 12V fuse box right?  Would
>the Zivan charge it if it's wired this way?

Yes, and Yes.
Just what problem with the Stereo are you trying to solve?  Adding a 12v
system battery isn't usually needed.

--
John G. Lussmyer      mailto:Cougar@...
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....  http://www.CasaDelGato.com

At 09:44 AM 12/8/2002 +0000, Tommy <titaniumtommy@...> wrote:
>1) What is the group consensus on phase 3 & 4 of charging?  Should it
>
>a) charge every day with phase 3 & 4
>b) charge every day without phase 3 & 4 (run finishing phase once a
>week)
>c) charge every other day with phase 3 & 4
>d) charge every other day without phase 3 & 4 (run finishing phase
>once a week)

I'd go with b).  The less you discharge the pack, the longer it lasts.
Hopefully you have the V9 chip in the Zivan (does the charger stay on
forever, and end up holding a constant 172(?) volts?)  It would be even
better if you had the temp probe.

>2) E-meter.  Today, my wife drove the Sparrow from Santa Clara to
>Stanford (about 34 miles roundtrip).  Starting standing voltage when
>she set out was 169V.  When she got home, I checked the e-meter and it
>was reading 142V but the green bars at the top of the e-meter was

Your EMeter may be programmed incorrectly.  There is a page of recommended
settings in the files area of this group.  You should probably check your
settings.
34 miles is near the limit of what a Sparrow can do (depending on terrain
and speed.).

>3)  How are powercheqs and regulators different?  Do I need one or the
>other (or both)?  What do these cost?

PowerCheq's try to keep the batteries in balance by moving power from one
to another at all times.
Regulators (Rudman MKII"s) try to keep the charger from cooking the batteries.
Personally, I prefer the Regulators.  They do seem to be working well for
my pack.  They are available from http://www.manzanitamicro.com . (You
don't need the RegBus modules unless you also plan on replacing the charger
with a PFC 20).  Wiring them in can be a pain - depending on how fancy you
want to be.  I want the extra-complicated route on mine.  Take a look at
http://www.casadelgato.com/EV/MySparrow.htm


--
John G. Lussmyer      mailto:Cougar@...
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....  http://www.CasaDelGato.com

The stereo cuts out or lowers volume when I use the brakes, turn
signals, or roll down the windows.  It usually resets when I roll one
or both of the windows up.

Clare said I should make sure the wires between the DC/DC and the 12 V
fuse box are 12 Gauge, but I haven't checked.  I was thinking of
upgrading the speakers and maybe even the head unit too so I wanted to
make sure there would be enough juice to run a stereo with a little
more power than the stock one.

--- In sparrow_ev@yahoogroups.com, "John G. Lussmyer" <Cougar@C...> wrote:
> At 02:28 AM 12/8/2002 +0000, Tommy <titaniumtommy@y...> wrote:
> >As for the extra battery, I would have
> >to wire it parallel inbetween the DC/DC and 12V fuse box right?  Would
> >the Zivan charge it if it's wired this way?
>
> Yes, and Yes.
> Just what problem with the Stereo are you trying to solve?  Adding a
12v
> system battery isn't usually needed.
>
> --
> John G. Lussmyer      mailto:Cougar@C...
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com

The Zivan has a V9 chip installed.  When I got it home and plugged it
in, the charger went for about 4 hours then shut off.  I drove around
that evening after charging and plugged it in again.  I'm not sure how
long it went but in the morning everything was off.  The Zivan was
flashing green, the fans weren't running, and it was full again.  So
my wife drove the car to Stanford and back and it was almost dead
(emeter read 142V).  I began charging around 5:30pm and at 2:30am it
was still flashing red so I unplugged it.  I'm pretty sure it was
flashing red for so long because the batteries were drained but I
unplugged it anyway.  The e-meter was reading about 185 when I
unplugged and dropped to about 180 while I put the charging cord away.

This morning, I checked and the emeter reads full (green bars) and
169V steady.  I'm assuming the pack is almost fully charged.

Has anyone tried the Zivan Smoother?  Does it do the same (or more or
less) than Powercheqs and Rudman Regulators working in tandem?  The
cost is about the same for the Zivan Smoother as buying Powercheqs &
Rudman Regulators but I like the fact that it has a port to hook up to
a PC for data gathering.  The Rudmans in John's car look ok (I
especially the custom LED display) but I'd like to make sure I'm not
going to spend $1000 only to find out it wasn't the best solution.
I've also emailed Corbin about their "Smart Charger" and the AC drive
system (asked about price and availability).

I'm going to go set the emeter at the groups recommended settings.

--- In sparrow_ev@yahoogroups.com, "John G. Lussmyer" <Cougar@C...>
wrote:
> At 09:44 AM 12/8/2002 +0000, Tommy <titaniumtommy@y...> wrote:
> >1) What is the group consensus on phase 3 & 4 of charging?  Should
it
> >
> >a) charge every day with phase 3 & 4
> >b) charge every day without phase 3 & 4 (run finishing phase once a
> >week)
> >c) charge every other day with phase 3 & 4
> >d) charge every other day without phase 3 & 4 (run finishing phase
> >once a week)
>
> I'd go with b).  The less you discharge the pack, the longer it
lasts.
> Hopefully you have the V9 chip in the Zivan (does the charger stay
on
> forever, and end up holding a constant 172(?) volts?)  It would be
even
> better if you had the temp probe.
>
> >2) E-meter.  Today, my wife drove the Sparrow from Santa Clara to
> >Stanford (about 34 miles roundtrip).  Starting standing voltage
when
> >she set out was 169V.  When she got home, I checked the e-meter
and it
> >was reading 142V but the green bars at the top of the e-meter was
>
> Your EMeter may be programmed incorrectly.  There is a page of
recommended
> settings in the files area of this group.  You should probably check
your
> settings.
> 34 miles is near the limit of what a Sparrow can do (depending on
terrain
> and speed.).
>
> >3)  How are powercheqs and regulators different?  Do I need one or
the
> >other (or both)?  What do these cost?
>
> PowerCheq's try to keep the batteries in balance by moving power
from one
> to another at all times.
> Regulators (Rudman MKII"s) try to keep the charger from cooking the
batteries.
> Personally, I prefer the Regulators.  They do seem to be working
well for
> my pack.  They are available from http://www.manzanitamicro.com .
(You
> don't need the RegBus modules unless you also plan on replacing the
charger
> with a PFC 20).  Wiring them in can be a pain - depending on how
fancy you
> want to be.  I want the extra-complicated route on mine.  Take a
look at
> http://www.casadelgato.com/EV/MySparrow.htm
>
>
> --
> John G. Lussmyer      mailto:Cougar@C...
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com

At 06:11 PM 12/8/2002 +0000, Tommy <titaniumtommy@...> wrote:
>The Zivan has a V9 chip installed.  When I got it home and plugged it
>in, the charger went for about 4 hours then shut off.  I drove around

It shouldn't shut off if you have a V9 chip in it.  The charger should go
to the 4th stage float charge, where it just holds a constant voltage.
(172v, I think, but don't remember for sure right now.)

>that evening after charging and plugged it in again.  I'm not sure how
>long it went but in the morning everything was off.  The Zivan was
>flashing green, the fans weren't running, and it was full again.  So
>my wife drove the car to Stanford and back and it was almost dead
>(emeter read 142V).  I began charging around 5:30pm and at 2:30am it
>was still flashing red so I unplugged it.  I'm pretty sure it was
>flashing red for so long because the batteries were drained but I
>unplugged it anyway.  The e-meter was reading about 185 when I
>unplugged and dropped to about 180 while I put the charging cord away.
>
>This morning, I checked and the emeter reads full (green bars) and
>169V steady.  I'm assuming the pack is almost fully charged.

  From your earlier post, we can tell that your EMeter is NOT programmed
correctly, so it's %remaining display (including the bar graph) are not
displaying correct information.
Your charger may have gotten into a thermal runaway condition - which is
not good.
Next time you charge, PLEASE take note of both the Current (Amps) and
Voltage readings at various times (at least just before you shut it
off).  What you describe doesn't sound like everything is working correctly.

>Has anyone tried the Zivan Smoother?  Does it do the same (or more or
>less) than Powercheqs and Rudman Regulators working in tandem?  The
>cost is about the same for the Zivan Smoother as buying Powercheqs &
>Rudman Regulators but I like the fact that it has a port to hook up to

You generally don't need BOTH powercheqs and regulators.  I'd just go with
the regs, which is only $300.  (Having the LED's in the cabin is VERY
useful.  Lets you know when a battery starts getting weak.)  Adding the
fans to the regs is a good idea, but a lot of work.
(Still gotta get rich to provide a version of the regs with plugs for the
LED's, and the little fan already mounted!)

>a PC for data gathering.  The Rudmans in John's car look ok (I
>especially the custom LED display) but I'd like to make sure I'm not
>going to spend $1000 only to find out it wasn't the best solution.

You could get an upgrade for your EMeter (about $80) so that it has RS232
output.  There is even software available for a Palm device to read/display
the data.  I'm just starting to fiddle with mine now.

>I've also emailed Corbin about their "Smart Charger" and the AC drive
>system (asked about price and availability).

Yeah, right.

--
John G. Lussmyer      mailto:Cougar@...
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....  http://www.CasaDelGato.com

At 10:27 AM 12/8/2002 -0800, John G. Lussmyer wrote:
>You generally don't need BOTH powercheqs and regulators.  I'd just go with
>the regs, which is only $300.  (Having the LED's in the cabin is VERY

Oops, bad hair day.  That should be $390.  sigh.

--
John G. Lussmyer      mailto:Cougar@...
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....  http://www.CasaDelGato.com

How do I know for sure there is a V9 in there or not?  On the label of
the charger, "V9" is written in orange marker.  Can I open it up and
look at some markings on a chip to know that I have a V9?

I just set the emeter to the group's recommendations and took the
Sparrow out for a spin and everything seemed ok...stereo still cuts
out but that's "normal" at this point.  When I got home, the emeter
read 165-166V.  I plugged it in to watch the E-meter while it charges.
  Right after plugging it in, the E-meter read 172 and climbing with a
constant 7.8A.  I'm going to go down and check it every half hour and
then unplug it at 8pm (7 hours after plugging it in)...or should I
unplug sooner?

I really hope everything is ok...I'm probably going to schedule
something with Clare so she can ensure that all is well and install
the regs, powercheq, or whatever I put in there to monitor/help the
batteries.  Maybe in January, Clare?

--- In sparrow_ev@yahoogroups.com, "John G. Lussmyer" <Cougar@C...> wrote:
> At 06:11 PM 12/8/2002 +0000, Tommy <titaniumtommy@y...> wrote:
> >The Zivan has a V9 chip installed.  When I got it home and plugged it
> >in, the charger went for about 4 hours then shut off.  I drove around
>
> It shouldn't shut off if you have a V9 chip in it.  The charger
should go
> to the 4th stage float charge, where it just holds a constant voltage.
> (172v, I think, but don't remember for sure right now.)
>
> >that evening after charging and plugged it in again.  I'm not sure how
> >long it went but in the morning everything was off.  The Zivan was
> >flashing green, the fans weren't running, and it was full again.  So
> >my wife drove the car to Stanford and back and it was almost dead
> >(emeter read 142V).  I began charging around 5:30pm and at 2:30am it
> >was still flashing red so I unplugged it.  I'm pretty sure it was
> >flashing red for so long because the batteries were drained but I
> >unplugged it anyway.  The e-meter was reading about 185 when I
> >unplugged and dropped to about 180 while I put the charging cord away.
> >
> >This morning, I checked and the emeter reads full (green bars) and
> >169V steady.  I'm assuming the pack is almost fully charged.
>
>  From your earlier post, we can tell that your EMeter is NOT programmed
> correctly, so it's %remaining display (including the bar graph) are not
> displaying correct information.
> Your charger may have gotten into a thermal runaway condition -
which is
> not good.
> Next time you charge, PLEASE take note of both the Current (Amps) and
> Voltage readings at various times (at least just before you shut it
> off).  What you describe doesn't sound like everything is working
correctly.
>
> >Has anyone tried the Zivan Smoother?  Does it do the same (or more or
> >less) than Powercheqs and Rudman Regulators working in tandem?  The
> >cost is about the same for the Zivan Smoother as buying Powercheqs &
> >Rudman Regulators but I like the fact that it has a port to hook up to
>
> You generally don't need BOTH powercheqs and regulators.  I'd just
go with
> the regs, which is only $300.  (Having the LED's in the cabin is VERY
> useful.  Lets you know when a battery starts getting weak.)  Adding the
> fans to the regs is a good idea, but a lot of work.
> (Still gotta get rich to provide a version of the regs with plugs
for the
> LED's, and the little fan already mounted!)
>
> >a PC for data gathering.  The Rudmans in John's car look ok (I
> >especially the custom LED display) but I'd like to make sure I'm not
> >going to spend $1000 only to find out it wasn't the best solution.
>
> You could get an upgrade for your EMeter (about $80) so that it has
RS232
> output.  There is even software available for a Palm device to
read/display
> the data.  I'm just starting to fiddle with mine now.
>
> >I've also emailed Corbin about their "Smart Charger" and the AC drive
> >system (asked about price and availability).
>
> Yeah, right.
>
> --
> John G. Lussmyer      mailto:Cougar@C...
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com

30 minutes after initial plug-in, the Zivan is flashing red.  The
e-meter is fluctuating between 191 and 191.5V.  Amps was 2.5A then
slowly dropped to 1.4A (took about 15 minutes to drop).  When does the
yellow and/or green light supposed to come one?  Is it supposed to be
blinking?  I thought after the Zivan gets the batteries up to 191 or
192, that it will wait until the Amps drops to 1.5 to go into the last
phase.  Am I mistaken here?  Also on the E-meter, the last green bar
started blinking when the Amps hit about 1.7.  It's never done that
before...I guess the E-meter really wasn't configured properly.

Anyway, when is green light-dom (phase 3) supposed to kickin?  Is it
supposed to blink?  The two times it has finished charging, the emeter
was off, and the Zivan was blinking green with the fans off.  Maybe I
don't have a V9?  Sigh...

--- In sparrow_ev@yahoogroups.com, "Tommy <titaniumtommy@y...>"
<titaniumtommy@y...> wrote:
> How do I know for sure there is a V9 in there or not?  On the label of
> the charger, "V9" is written in orange marker.  Can I open it up and
> look at some markings on a chip to know that I have a V9?
>
> I just set the emeter to the group's recommendations and took the
> Sparrow out for a spin and everything seemed ok...stereo still cuts
> out but that's "normal" at this point.  When I got home, the emeter
> read 165-166V.  I plugged it in to watch the E-meter while it charges.
>  Right after plugging it in, the E-meter read 172 and climbing with a
> constant 7.8A.  I'm going to go down and check it every half hour and
> then unplug it at 8pm (7 hours after plugging it in)...or should I
> unplug sooner?
>
> I really hope everything is ok...I'm probably going to schedule
> something with Clare so she can ensure that all is well and install
> the regs, powercheq, or whatever I put in there to monitor/help the
> batteries.  Maybe in January, Clare?
>
> --- In sparrow_ev@yahoogroups.com, "John G. Lussmyer" <Cougar@C...>
wrote:
> > At 06:11 PM 12/8/2002 +0000, Tommy <titaniumtommy@y...> wrote:
> > >The Zivan has a V9 chip installed.  When I got it home and plugged it
> > >in, the charger went for about 4 hours then shut off.  I drove around
> >
> > It shouldn't shut off if you have a V9 chip in it.  The charger
> should go
> > to the 4th stage float charge, where it just holds a constant
voltage.
> > (172v, I think, but don't remember for sure right now.)
> >
> > >that evening after charging and plugged it in again.  I'm not
sure how
> > >long it went but in the morning everything was off.  The Zivan was
> > >flashing green, the fans weren't running, and it was full again.  So
> > >my wife drove the car to Stanford and back and it was almost dead
> > >(emeter read 142V).  I began charging around 5:30pm and at 2:30am it
> > >was still flashing red so I unplugged it.  I'm pretty sure it was
> > >flashing red for so long because the batteries were drained but I
> > >unplugged it anyway.  The e-meter was reading about 185 when I
> > >unplugged and dropped to about 180 while I put the charging cord
away.
> > >
> > >This morning, I checked and the emeter reads full (green bars) and
> > >169V steady.  I'm assuming the pack is almost fully charged.
> >
> >  From your earlier post, we can tell that your EMeter is NOT
programmed
> > correctly, so it's %remaining display (including the bar graph)
are not
> > displaying correct information.
> > Your charger may have gotten into a thermal runaway condition -
> which is
> > not good.
> > Next time you charge, PLEASE take note of both the Current (Amps) and
> > Voltage readings at various times (at least just before you shut it
> > off).  What you describe doesn't sound like everything is working
> correctly.
> >
> > >Has anyone tried the Zivan Smoother?  Does it do the same (or more or
> > >less) than Powercheqs and Rudman Regulators working in tandem?  The
> > >cost is about the same for the Zivan Smoother as buying Powercheqs &
> > >Rudman Regulators but I like the fact that it has a port to hook
up to
> >
> > You generally don't need BOTH powercheqs and regulators.  I'd just
> go with
> > the regs, which is only $300.  (Having the LED's in the cabin is VERY
> > useful.  Lets you know when a battery starts getting weak.)
Adding the
> > fans to the regs is a good idea, but a lot of work.
> > (Still gotta get rich to provide a version of the regs with plugs
> for the
> > LED's, and the little fan already mounted!)
> >
> > >a PC for data gathering.  The Rudmans in John's car look ok (I
> > >especially the custom LED display) but I'd like to make sure I'm not
> > >going to spend $1000 only to find out it wasn't the best solution.
> >
> > You could get an upgrade for your EMeter (about $80) so that it has
> RS232
> > output.  There is even software available for a Palm device to
> read/display
> > the data.  I'm just starting to fiddle with mine now.
> >
> > >I've also emailed Corbin about their "Smart Charger" and the AC drive
> > >system (asked about price and availability).
> >
> > Yeah, right.
> >
> > --
> > John G. Lussmyer      mailto:Cougar@C...
> > Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
> http://www.CasaDelGato.com