Hi

I was on 5126-5127 early this morning at 1:00.  So it must be the other two sets
of cars.

Ross
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: t6h_5307n
   To: transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 6:01 PM
   Subject: <Transit-Toronto> 3possible fleet numbers for Greenwood crash


   i have narrowed the numbers down to 5040-41, 5124,25 and 5126,27

   and this is from my obs at kennedy station over the past 2 days
   so its accurate



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A couple days ago, I was heading up to Scarborough to see some
friends.  Since it was along the way, I decided to get off at
Greenwood station to go check out the train yards.  Anyways, what
really struck me right away was how dead the Danforth was. I had
remembered reading an article about this area but it was completely
different seeing it first hand.  Many stores were vacant and seemed
desperate to either be leased or sold to anyone.  Does anyone know
what plans are in store for this area?  I know this is kinda not a
transit topic but I wouldn't mind doing a research assignment on this
area.

Justin,

Greenwood/Danforth is kind of a dead part of the Danny.  West of Pape Ave.,
the landscape and overall vibe is drastically different.

Close to Greenwood Stn. is the lovely Linsmore Tavern on the NW corner
Strathmore and Danforth.  I have been walking by that place for years,
observing through the greasy windows, the pensioners singing karaoke and
drinking half pints of draught at all times of the day.  There's the
wonderful Roxy Theatre just west of Greenwood, which has been 'desperately'
for sale for years and years.  The most happening feature of that
intersection is the homeless dudes waiting for change outside The Beer
Store.

Anyway, a list of the downtrodden landmarks of the area could go on for
pages.  The area is, however, slowly becoming gentrified.  A lot of older
homes are being sold to younger (couples) with the renovating bug.  This
part of the East end is slowly being redeveloped.  One has only to look a
little farther South, to Queen St., where all kinds of cool shops are
opening up, to see that there is steady growth happening in 'Old Riverdale,'
I'm confident that in time, the entrepreneurial fever will spread up to that
section of the Danforth.

Cheers,

Alex
---

-----Original Message-----
From: Justin Leon [mailto:lil_nyhack@...]
Sent: May 2, 2004 4:22 PM
To: transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: <Transit-Toronto> Greenwood and Danforth

A couple days ago, I was heading up to Scarborough to see some
friends.  Since it was along the way, I decided to get off at
Greenwood station to go check out the train yards.  Anyways, what
really struck me right away was how dead the Danforth was. I had
remembered reading an article about this area but it was completely
different seeing it first hand.  Many stores were vacant and seemed
desperate to either be leased or sold to anyone.  Does anyone know
what plans are in store for this area?  I know this is kinda not a
transit topic but I wouldn't mind doing a research assignment on this
area.




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Yahoo! Groups Links

>
> Greenwood/Danforth is kind of a dead part of the
> Danny.  West of Pape Ave.,
> the landscape and overall vibe is drastically
> different.
>
Is this part of Danforth an area that was "depressed"
by the opening of the Bloor-Danforth subway, and the
removal of surface streetcar transit?  Possibly, and
that could be a research angle, but not likely.

I can never remember in almost 30 years, that part of
Danforth being really lively and happening.  Old
photos of the Bloor streetcars show the south side as
a wasteland of used-car lots in this stretch, and it
even warranted mention in the "Toronto, No Mean City"
book as a desolate and unattractive urban area.  I
think the quote was "there is a cult of ugliness even
in Toronto, especially along streets like Danforth".
The area did have an Italian flavour for many years,
and I remember seeing many older Italian gentlemen
standing on the sidewalks arguing politics or soccer
or something.  They've gone now, along with their
stores (remember "Danforth Italian Gifts"?) and the
area is ready for transition.  This stretch of
Danforth has never been a destination for people,
myself included and I lived five minutes away.  I
often hopped the subway over to Pape, or walked, to
browse and shop.  It's so easy to hop the subway to go
elsewhere (e.g. Chester!), or take the Carlton or
Queen streetcars if you're further south, so the
accessibility to good transit may in fact hamper the
prospects for this part of Danforth.  (There's another
interesting angle you could take).

Even though there are subway stops nearby, they don't
generate enough traffic to liven the street, as the
buses are shorter, more local routes, and there are no
high-density developments nearby to boost the
population.  The ongoing consolidation of business by
banks and other chains hasn't helped either, along
with the demise of Robertson Motors and the Danforth
bus garage.

It will take some time for this stretch to become
gentrified, perhaps as the rents along the western
section increase, business will move over.  Proximity
to transit would work in a favourable way once it
becomes a "destination", as it does at the western end
of Danforth, or even in the stretch east of Main St.

If you're doing a research study, proximity to transit
is certainly one of the factors you would consider,
which can work positively or negatively for a
depressed area such as this one.

Robert Lubinski

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In a message dated 04-05-03 09:15:27 Eastern Daylight Time,
transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com writes:

> Greenwood/Danforth is kind of a dead part of the Danny.  West of Pape Ave.,
> the landscape and overall vibe is drastically different.
>

Yes you know the area is in the skids when the KFC shuts down!  With three
high schools and public housing nearby, you'd think it would've been a goldmine,
but obviously not so.  I too have lived and walked around this area for 13
years and wish it would improve, but positive signs are starting show.  Percy
Waters flowers moved from the Chester/Danforth area about two years and a few
small restaurants have been around for sometime.  Granted it has a long way to
go as there seem to be too many dollar stores popping up.  It's too bad the
Roxy doesn't become part of the Festival Theatre chain.  It might just do very
well.

Ian McCrea
Toronto, ON


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The KFC died because the kid in the schools dont like KFC.  As for
the gentrification, it might happen, but you couldnt pay me to
liveacross from DCTI.

--- In transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com, mccreaia@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 04-05-03 09:15:27 Eastern Daylight Time,
> transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com writes:
>
> > Greenwood/Danforth is kind of a dead part of the Danny.  West of
Pape Ave.,
> > the landscape and overall vibe is drastically different.
> >
>
> Yes you know the area is in the skids when the KFC shuts down!
With three
> high schools and public housing nearby, you'd think it would've
been a goldmine,
> but obviously not so.  I too have lived and walked around this
area for 13
> years and wish it would improve, but positive signs are starting
show.  Percy
> Waters flowers moved from the Chester/Danforth area about two
years and a few
> small restaurants have been around for sometime.  Granted it has a
long way to
> go as there seem to be too many dollar stores popping up.  It's
too bad the
> Roxy doesn't become part of the Festival Theatre chain.  It might
just do very
> well.
>
> Ian McCrea
> Toronto, ON
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I could see this area resembling the Annex with
"trendy" shops and new expensive housing developments
in and around the Danforth.  I'm not saying that
gentrification is a good thing but Greenwood has the
potential to encourage more Toronto residents to use
transit instead of their cars.  What I fear is that
once these changes happen, many working class people
in the area will face stiff rent increases and
landlords who would be eager to get rid of them for
more "desirable" tenants.  This got me thinking about
my area, Queen West, and how all the artists got
booted west of Spadina.  Now, ppl. are talking about
that area being the next "hip" place.  Trust me,
whenever I hear that word it sends shivers down my
spine.  Can't really complain cause I did contribute
in a way to what happened to these artists.  I hope
Greenwood can be planned so that there is a mix of
different social classes and not just upper class individuals.




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Interesting article by Christopher Hume in today's Star, profiling
outgoing Toronto head planner Paul Bedford, who had a number of
strongly pro-transit statements in an address to the Canadian Urban
Institute last week.  Perhaps most interestingly:

"His recommendations included: Removal of environmental assessments
for transit projects, because they're 'dumb' and 'counter-intuitive.'"

Link to full article:

http://tinyurl.com/255ct

Brent

I know you guys may be getting annoyed with all these posts but just
wanted to see what you think about this.  Todays' Toronto Star has an
article in which Mayor Miller states that the feds have abandoned
Canada's major cities and changed the deal to encompass all
"communities".  Miller sees it as a political tactic being pushed just
before the PM calls an election.  I hope Martin comes through with his
word cause if not, I will definitely not vote for them.  Which other
political party do you guys think would actually put an emphasis on an
urban agenda?  Here's the article link: http://www.thestar.
com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?
pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1083578550101&call
_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154

*sigh*  I expected more from Joe.  He must have been subjected to the
anti-ROW lobby.  He makes Spadina sound like a barren wasteland!

http://tinyurl.com/2rhw7

-Chris





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Last night coming home on the subway, filled with Leafs
fans....conductor announces next stop...... few seconds later over
the intercom you hear "Go Philly".  Car is silent because people are
wondering "What did the guy just say?".  Few seconds later "Flyers
all the way" over the intercom.  Everybody in car starts to boo.
Booing stops and nothing on the PA.  Suddenly you hear over the
intercom "What do you expect from a team filled with old, broken down
players?"  Car erupts with booing.  But deep down, everybody wearing
blue and white on that subway knew the guy was speaking the truth.

I was in tears - too funny.

--- Rick <rizzorizzo@...> wrote:
> Last night coming home on the subway, filled with
> Leafs
> fans....conductor announces next stop...... few
> seconds later over
> the intercom you hear "Go Philly".


This was on the TTC subway, I presume.  Not SEPTA :)

Go Lightning!!!


mb.




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"Chris Killam" <chris@k...> wrote: *sigh*

   Joe's column is always very subjective -- that's his angle.

Apparently the City of Toronto canvassed Spadina merchants
and found 14% thought business was worse than before the
LRT, 50% said it was the same, and 36% said it was better.

Some St. Clair merchants don't believe these numbers - the
mistrust of city officials is quite high in a few parts.

A few technical queries (off the record):
  How much did 510 ridership increase over the 77 bus?
  Were the 77 numbers pre-construction?
  Is Spadina at capacity now?

ed d

On Wed, 2004-05-05 at 04:53, Chris Killam wrote:
> *sigh*  I expected more from Joe.  He must have been subjected to the
> anti-ROW lobby.  He makes Spadina sound like a barren wasteland!
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2rhw7

"But it also makes jaywalking easier. It's just three hops across the
street, instead of one long run."

"People jaywalk. Here, here, come to the window. Look at them. You can
see them. They're like fleas, hop, hop."

"People will come to shop on one side of the street in their car but
they won't go to the other side of the street because there's no place
to turn around."

Okay, which is it? Do they cross the street to shop or don't they?



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- eddrass65 <eddrass65@...> wrote:
>  How much did 510 ridership increase over the 77
> bus?
>  Were the 77 numbers pre-construction?

I read on a TTC report a few years back that 510
ridership was 7% over 77 ridership pre-construction on
weekdays, and 15% weekends.

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Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

The number I get from the management types is 20,000 more people a day over
the bus.

Lets not forget as stated in this news group earlier that the northbound
only stop at Dundas
is busier than 11 subway and RT stations.

At 7 pm I leave Dundas with a packed streetcar, when I go north. It is like
that from noon till 8:30 at night.

Patrick (I have to five trips on Dundas this evening) Lavallee

----- Original Message -----
From: "eddrass65" <eddrass65@...>
To: <transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 10:39 AM
Subject: <Transit-Toronto> Re: Joe Fiorito on the St Clair ROW


> "Chris Killam" <chris@k...> wrote: *sigh*
>
>   Joe's column is always very subjective -- that's his angle.
>
> Apparently the City of Toronto canvassed Spadina merchants
> and found 14% thought business was worse than before the
> LRT, 50% said it was the same, and 36% said it was better.
>
> Some St. Clair merchants don't believe these numbers - the
> mistrust of city officials is quite high in a few parts.
>
> A few technical queries (off the record):
>  How much did 510 ridership increase over the 77 bus?
>  Were the 77 numbers pre-construction?
>  Is Spadina at capacity now?
>
> ed d
>
>
>
>
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> Transit Toronto Website:  http://transit.toronto.on.ca
> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank e-mail to:
>   mailto:transit-toronto-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

What threw me off was the fact that every quote mentioned
construction.  Well, construction will have to happen on St. Clair
no matter what.  The street and tracks need to be rebuilt, there's
no way around that.  How about life after construction?

And could someone please explain this whole 'barrier' thing.  I am
still confused over how a 4-inch curb constitutes a barrier.

Christopher

Does anyone know where I can find back issues of
"Canadian Transportation", either as bound volumes or
on microfilm/microfiche?

The Urban Affairs Library at Metro Hall doesn't seem
to have this journal, which I suspect is now defunct,
though they do have some bound volumes of "Coupler"
(TTC/ATU 113 newsletter) going back to 1953.

Mike




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The term "barrier" has been around the St.Clair streetcar debate since the EA
process began.

It is always used by the anti right-of-way people.  Although never defined in
detail, I believe a "barrier" refers to any obstruction (curb, tree, painted
line or overhead sign) that prevents a vehicle from making U turns or left
turns except at designated locations.

Whenever I encounter this term, I ask if the speaker is referring the 6 lanes
of traffic that prevent me from easily walking from one side of the street to
the other.

Jeffrey




Quoting Christopher L <clivett@...>:

> What threw me off was the fact that every quote mentioned
> construction.  Well, construction will have to happen on St. Clair
> no matter what.  The street and tracks need to be rebuilt, there's
> no way around that.  How about life after construction?
>
> And could someone please explain this whole 'barrier' thing.  I am
> still confused over how a 4-inch curb constitutes a barrier.
>
> Christopher
>

Try the main library at Yonge and Bloor.
They have back copies of it when it was still
"Canadian Railway and Marine World".

Patrick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Brooker" <patria1818@...>
To: "Transit Toronto" <transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 9:56 PM
Subject: <Transit-Toronto> Canadian Transportation


> Does anyone know where I can find back issues of
> "Canadian Transportation", either as bound volumes or
> on microfilm/microfiche?
>
> The Urban Affairs Library at Metro Hall doesn't seem
> to have this journal, which I suspect is now defunct,
> though they do have some bound volumes of "Coupler"
> (TTC/ATU 113 newsletter) going back to 1953.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
>
>
> =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
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>   mailto:transit-toronto-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

--- In transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher L"
<clivett@t...> wrote:
> What threw me off was the fact that every quote mentioned
> construction.  Well, construction will have to happen on St. Clair
> no matter what.  The street and tracks need to be rebuilt, there's
> no way around that.  How about life after construction?

That was all I could think of while I read the article too.

One of the better, more insightful comments I heard at the first PIC
back in the fall was something to that effect -- I think it was one
of the councillor candidates.  All the business-owners were
complaining that a ROW would ruin their businesses, and the
candidiate (Maria Minna?) stepped up and said, "No, the ROW itself
won't ruin your businesses; what *may* hurt your business is the
actual construction period, but that's going to happen even if they
tear the streetcar tracks out completely and replace them with
buses.  So it's in your best interest to come to a compromise with
the city -- stop worrying so much about what the eventual corridor
will be, and start negotiating hard on what the city can do for
businesses during construction, and together come up with some sort
of survival strategy."

Unfortunately, I think the comment was probably lost under the
overall louder noise of the anti-ROW crowd.

Brent

Sorry for the last minute plea, but if anyone (including Jeff Stone)
has been following the bus purchase for the York Region Rapid
Transit project, or the upcoming changes to YRT routes -- I'd like
to hear your opinions.
  I'll be working on this until around 6pm Thursday -- can you give
me a call at 416-322-5285?

Please and Thank you...

ed drass

note no transit directions included...   ;^)


>FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>May 6, 2004.

ATTENTION ASSIGNMENT EDITORS
>
>NEWMARKET - The Government of Canada, the Government of
Ontario and the Regional Municipality of York will be making a
significant announcement regarding the future of rapid transit in
York Region.
>
>WHEN: 1 p.m. May 7, 2004.
>
>WHERE: York Region Administrative Centre
> 17250 Yonge Street
> Newmarket, Ontario
> Regional Council Chambers, main floor
>
>KEY SPEAKERS: Federal Minister Responsible for Ontario and
Minister of Human Resources and Skills Development, >the
Honourable Joe Volpe, Federal Veterans Affairs Minister, the
Honourable John McCallum, Ontario Minister of Transportation,
the Honourable Harinder Takhar, York Regional Chair and CEO,
Bill Fisch.
>
>BACKGROUND:   York Region is developing a rapid transit
system to round out a comprehensive family of transit services.
The York Rapid Transit Plan is being implemented in three
phases over a 20-year period, beginning with the "Quick Start"
initiative.
>
>Accredited media will be asked to sign in. Parking will be
available in the front circle of the Administrative Centre.
>

Well, since Calgary is the only Canadina team left,
I'll definately have to say GO FLAMES GO!!!!!

  --- Mike Brooker <patria1818@...> wrote: >

>
>
> This was on the TTC subway, I presume.  Not SEPTA :)
>
> Go Lightning!!!
>
>
> mb.
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
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> Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
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______________________________________________________________________
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Including a parking lot at Downsview


http://www.city.toronto.on.ca/ttc/construction.htm

http://www.city.toronto.on.ca/ttc/servicechanges/index.htm

At 5/7/04 13:27, "eddrass65" <eddrass65@...> wrote:


> >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> >May 6, 2004.
>
> >NEWMARKET - The Government of Canada, the Government of
>Ontario and the Regional Municipality of York will be making a
>significant announcement regarding the future of rapid transit in
>York Region.
>...>
> >BACKGROUND:   York Region is developing a rapid transit
>system to round out a comprehensive family of transit services.
>The York Rapid Transit Plan is being implemented in three
>phases over a 20-year period, beginning with the "Quick Start"
>initiative.
> >


Someone needs to blow the whistle on this.  It is a fraud.  Fancy stations
and information systems, offboard fare collection, queue-jumper lanes, ITS,
and new buses do NOT constitute "rapid transit".

Good, Quality Bus service it clearly is.  Rapid transit, it is not.

Somebody needs to say it:  This Emperor has no clothes.

LH

May 8, 2004. 01:00 AM

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_T\
ype1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1083967809199

KEVIN MCGRAN
TRANSPORTATION REPORTER

Federal politicians, no doubt part of a pre-election
campaign, dropped by local transit authorities
yesterday and signed multi-partner, multi-year
promises that guarantee $1 billion to GO Transit and
$150 million to York Region.

The funding, for expansion programs, will change the
face of public transit.

"This is a transfer of dollars; this is like money in
the bank," said Human Resources Minister Joe Volpe,
the federal cabinet minister responsible for Ontario,
who made both announcements.

By 2010, GO Transit will be able to:

Run all day, half-hourly service along its east and
west Lakeshore lines, thanks to money to add 36
kilometres of rail.

Run trains all day, without worry of freight train
interference, with rail and bridge improvements on
Georgetown, Milton, Bradford and Stouffville lines.

Extend its reach with new rail service to Barrie as
well as bus service to Peterborough, Cambridge,
Niagara Falls, Guelph, Kitchener and Waterloo.

"Anywhere we can add another track to improve our
service is great for GO," said GO chairman Gordon
Chong. "This morning, we had a CN freight train pull
ahead of GO and VIA trains and it caused significant
delay and caused a cancellation. GO is not the master
of its own house. CN and CP own the rail, own the
tracks and whenever they choose to run freight, they
can run freight. We're second-class citizens in that
sense."

By 2005, York will be able to:

Run custom-built buses along Yonge St. and Highway 7,
partly in their own rights of way.

Connect with TTC subway stations at Downsview and Don
Mills, relieving the overcrowding of the Yonge St.
line.

"We're ready to go," said York Region chairman Bill
Fisch. "There are 104 intersections being worked on as
we speak. We're not wasting any time."

York Region has ordered 22 18-metre buses and 55
12-metre buses from Van Hool of Belgium.

Intersections will allow buses to go first, new
terminals will be passenger friendly and the region
will use electronic fare cards instead of tokens or
tickets.

"We're going to make driving a car in York Region a
choice, not a necessity," said Fisch.

Some have been critical of York Region's entrance into
rapid transit, saying it takes scarce public money
away from GO and the TTC, both of which move many more
commuters and have urgent need of capital
improvements.

"In my mind, it's not either/or, it's both," said
Ontario Transportation Minister Harinder Takhar.

"The regions are growing, so we need to start building
public transit otherwise we will never get around to
building public transit. So this is a great start."

Ottawa and Queen's Park are each contributing $385
million to GO with $235 million to come from the
municipalities that GO services. Ottawa, Queen's Park
and York Region are each contributing $50 million to
the region's QuickStart rapid transit program.

Last month, Ottawa, Queen's Park and Toronto agreed to
a $1.05 billion three-way funding agreement for the
TTC.

None of the transit authorities got everything they
wanted. The money announced last month for the TTC is
barely enough to keep it going from year to year, and
it certainly isn't enough to begin subway expansion.

But the agreement was hailed as a step forward because
the money is guaranteed for five years.

GO Transit didn't get any money for its much-hailed
idea to build bus-only highways across Greater
Toronto.

And York Region is still looking for $1.5 billion more
to build bus-only roads and ultimately convert to
light rail transit.

"It's never everything you want, but it's significant
progress," said GO Transit chairman Gordon Chong.

GO's work is in the environmental assessment process,
with construction expected to begin in 2005.

The 12 projects that have funding could be complete by
2008, according to a best-case scenario presented at
GO's last board meeting.

But managing director Gary McNeil expects the work to
take longer.

"We know we're not going to be able to do all the work
on all of the projects at the same time; there's just
not enough manpower for it literally," said McNeil.



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I'm writing to request assistance of avid web surfers to find streetcar right-
of-way pictures.  Please send the web address of photos of existing streetcar
lines that have some elements that can be adopted for the St.Clair line when it
is rebuilt in 2005.  Remember that St.Clair is a busy 6 lane road with an
active commercial strip and many sidestreets and driveways.

Thanks on behalf of SCRIPT
www.script2004.ca

Jeffrey

From the transfer points,  they said that 5004 and 5040 were the
cars hit from the side,  i dont know if the swiches were set wrong
or what,  but they said the g cars wer disabled and being pushed in
by the other 2 g cars so all 4 cars were running.

if they dont rebuild 5004 and 5040,  couple 5005 and 5041 togeather,
i know ther both b units but the could convert one,   just like 5754-
55 set

also the newsleter said the g car sufferned minnor damage