I have a few observations about the ongoing token and token-hoarding
debate.

Agreed that smart cards or other "intelligent" fare media is the long term
solution, particularly when coupled with POP-style fare enforcement.
The benefits of decoupling system access from fare collection and
enforcement are obvious but to spell it out briefly, the two big wins are
loading/unloading times on surface vehicles, and relieving the vehicle
operators from the often difficult and unpleasant not to mention
distracting job of fare enforcement.

Having said all that, the TTC fare system, home-grown and unscientific as
it is, operates very well and more importantly very reliably, much like a
lot of the TTC. It is a very self-sufficient operation, aside from not
building their own vehicles, they do a remarkable job of taking care of
business operationally, and that includes fare collection, enforcement
,and other things such as handling rationing of fare media before
increases. It is far too easy to criticise their approach to anti-hoarding
here. Just imagine if the bank of Canada were to announce that in three
months, the loonie would be devalued by 8.25%. Yet the TTC does not have
the luxury of keeping fare increases a secret, they would be criticised
even more if they were to try that approach. So they limit sales, and
adjust accordingly, as they have done. And it is a success. I have not had
any trouble picking up five tokens at any time in the past few weeks,
which is exactly what they are trying to do, cause least inconvenience to
the regular bread and butter riders without allowing the supply to go
dangerously low. I admit I prefer to buy my tokens a roll at a time, but
my last roll just ran out before this announcement. The day the increase
goes in, I will grab a new roll at the new rate, higher but still a
bargain compared to any other way around town.

Milton.



On Sun, 15 Nov 2009, lauwils wrote:

>  
>
> There is nothing illegal or unethical about token 'hoarding'. Given the rate
TTC fares increase at, it is a
> valid investment and those that can afford it are wise to purchase perhaps
hundreds of token in advance.
>
> The problem now is that everyday riders who don't use the system often enough
to justify the high TTC
> multiple for the metropass are getting screwed.
>
> This problem was perfectly foreseeable and should have been a consideration
when the tickets were
> eliminated.
>
> Solution: Smart Cards (aka a fare system that isn't dumb!)
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

There is nothing illegal or unethical about token 'hoarding'. Given the rate TTC
fares increase at, it is a valid investment and those that can afford it are
wise to purchase perhaps hundreds of token in advance.

The problem now is that everyday riders who don't use the system often enough to
justify the high TTC multiple for the metropass are getting screwed.

This problem was perfectly foreseeable and should have been a consideration when
the tickets were eliminated.

Solution: Smart Cards (aka a fare system that isn't dumb!)

Yeah - I was the one who said that.  But like I originally said, I think
there's a spike in purchases because of the rationing, not because of the
fare increase.

Thanks,
Christian.
|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|
Christian Base

"When a train pulls into a great city I am reminded of the closing moments
of an overture." - Graham Greene



On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 12:20, eallen110 <eallen@...> wrote:

> >I doubt the TTC is going to see a rush for tokens at the moment -
> >especially with Christmas approaching us fast, and their focus (and >money)
> are on other things.
> >
>
>
> Except that according to a TTC media release token sales have jumped by 20%
> while ridership has remained constant... so clearly there are people out
> there who are hoarding or "investing in token futures" as someone put it.
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I was up at North York Centre on Friday and noticed that elevators are now fully
operational.

>I doubt the TTC is going to see a rush for tokens at the moment - >especially
with Christmas approaching us fast, and their focus (and >money) are on other
things.
>


Except that according to a TTC media release token sales have jumped by 20%
while ridership has remained constant... so clearly there are people out there
who are hoarding or "investing in token futures" as someone put it.

MEDIA RELEASE: <http://www3.ttc.ca/News/2009/November/13_11_09_News_Release.jsp>


~E

TTC also offers day ($9.00), weekly ($32.25), and GTA weekly ($47.00)
passes, for those who ride often enough in a given day or week to make one
of those worthwhile, but not enough to make a monthly Metropass worthwhile.

Mark Walton
mark.walton@...

-----Original Message-----
From: transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wotan
Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 12:00 AM
To: transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: <Transit-Toronto> Re: No Tokens for Sale

I agree with Christian - seniors, students, and children already have cash
fare discounts, tickets, or passes.  MAny people who use the TTC daily also
have Metropasses.  Al these users reduce the number of tokens the TTC must
have.  Also, as people use their tokens (the people who generally use tokens
will still be using them), then the TTC has those tokens to resell.

I do not ride the TTC everyday, but use tokens when I do take the TTC.  I do
keep ahead in the sense that I purchase more tokens before I use my last
one.  However, I am not going to run out tomorrow (or anytime between now
and January) and "go wild" buying tokens just to avoid any increase.  Unless
people have money to waste, I doubt the TTC is going to see a rush for
tokens at the moment - especially with Christmas approaching us fast, and
their focus (and money) are on other things.

Wotan

--- In transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com, Christian Base <christian.base@...>
wrote:
>
> As I stated further in my message that you snipped,  "I can not believe
that
> a significant proportion of riders have hundreds of dollars sitting around
> that they could afford to sink into 'token futures'"
>
> Thanks,
> Christian.
> |=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|
> Christian Base

I agree with Christian - seniors, students, and children already have cash fare
discounts, tickets, or passes.  MAny people who use the TTC daily also have
Metropasses.  Al these users reduce the number of tokens the TTC must have. 
Also, as people use their tokens (the people who generally use tokens will still
be using them), then the TTC has those tokens to resell.

I do not ride the TTC everyday, but use tokens when I do take the TTC.  I do
keep ahead in the sense that I purchase more tokens before I use my last one. 
However, I am not going to run out tomorrow (or anytime between now and January)
and "go wild" buying tokens just to avoid any increase.  Unless people have
money to waste, I doubt the TTC is going to see a rush for tokens at the moment
- especially with Christmas approaching us fast, and their focus (and money) are
on other things.

Wotan

--- In transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com, Christian Base <christian.base@...>
wrote:
>
> As I stated further in my message that you snipped,  "I can not believe that
> a significant proportion of riders have hundreds of dollars sitting around
> that they could afford to sink into 'token futures'"
>
> Thanks,
> Christian.
> |=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|
> Christian Base
>
> "When a train pulls into a great city I am reminded of the closing moments
> of an overture." - Graham Greene

GO is planning on reopening the tunnel on Dec 1 with completion of the south
side platform by Feb 2010.

The elevators will not be working until sometime in 2010 as they are not being
install at this time.

New stair been built off Main St to the new platform.

The new south side entrance is a real treat to see some nice work by GO for a
change.

Haft of the south side platform could be in service by year end or sooner as it
only needs some final touches.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzVoxsW458Q

Dave

Some of you may recognize Gerald Zeldin's name as the artist who created the
streetcar murals at Eglinton West subway station.  If you're interested in
some of his subsequent works, he is having an exhibition of small works at
Vintage One Wines until December 10/09.  None of the works are transit
related, but provide another type of this artist's works and I thought it
was a neat show and venue.

Vintage one is at 4896-B Dundas St. West, Toronto, Ontario, M9A 1B5,
416-231-6994.  They're open Tue-Fri 10-6, Sat. 10-4, or by appointment.  See
http://www.geraldzeldin.com/ and http://www.vintageonewines.com/events.html.

DISCLOSURE: Gerald Zeldin is a friend of mine.

Thanks,
Christian.
|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|
Christian Base

"When a train pulls into a great city I am reminded of the closing moments
of an overture." - Graham Greene


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

As I stated further in my message that you snipped,  "I can not believe that
a significant proportion of riders have hundreds of dollars sitting around
that they could afford to sink into 'token futures'"

Thanks,
Christian.
|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|
Christian Base

"When a train pulls into a great city I am reminded of the closing moments
of an overture." - Graham Greene



On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 13:12, David Harrison <dwharrison@...> wrote:

> > It seems to me that this whole hoarding situation is a direct result of
> the
> > TTC's rationing actions.  Any time you tell people that you are limiting
> > their purchases of anything, they will try to get more to make sure they
> > don't run out!
>
> And people will NOT hoard tokens to pay for tomorrow's rides at today's
> pricing?
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I've been a pass customer for the last nine years and I don't see that
changing in the foreseeable future, but the token sales limit does
affect me a little bit because I keep a small supply of them on hand.
They're for visiting friends who don't have a pass, in case we need to
go anywhere by TTC.

The problem is, I'm running low. I had five tokens until last night
when I went downtown with a friend for dinner and that knocked me down
to three of which I'll need at least two of those next weekend, so I
need to stock up for occasional travel. Hoarding to temporarily skate
around a fare increase or not, token buying's going to be a lot of fun
until January.

-Robert King



On 2009-11-13, at 1:12 PM, David Harrison <dwharrison@...> wrote:

> > It seems to me that this whole hoarding situation is a direct
> result of the
> > TTC's rationing actions.  Any time you tell people that you are
> limiting
> > their purchases of anything, they will try to get more to make
> sure they
> > don't run out!
>
> And people will NOT hoard tokens to pay for tomorrow's rides at
> today's pricing?
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> It seems to me that this whole hoarding situation is a direct result of the
> TTC's rationing actions.  Any time you tell people that you are limiting
> their purchases of anything, they will try to get more to make sure they
> don't run out!

And people will NOT hoard tokens to pay for tomorrow's rides at today's pricing?

I doubt it.  That building has security measures that trump even the main bank
vaults downtown.
---

Sent on the Tele-Mobile network with BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Moaz Ahmad <moaz.ahmad@...>
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 23:11:27
To: <transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: <Transit-Toronto> Re: No Tokens for Sale

Wonder if there will be a great token robbery one day. Cheers, Moaz

On 11/13/09, Michael Iszak <miszak.mobile@...> wrote:
> You are correct Dan.
>
> A little while back, the TTC had to reinforce the floors at the Paton
> building (part of the TTC's Hillcrest property).  The Paton building is the
> TTC's "bank", housing everything revenue-related (tokens, passes, etc...).
>
> They had to do this with the elimination of tickets due to the increased
> weight of tokens.
>
> A friend of mine that works there told me there's (these are unofficial
> numbers, of course) around 5 million dollars in tokens.  So that's fairly
> close to the 15 million estimate (more exactly, 11.25 million).
> ---
>
> Sent on the Tele-Mobile network with BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dan Garcia <smallspy_g@...>
> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 05:25:11
> To: <transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: <Transit-Toronto> Re: No Tokens for Sale
>
> Contrary to what most might think, there is no shortage of tokens.
>
> The TTC two years ago ordered 20 million tokens, and followed that up in
> short order with a further 20 million.
>
> The problem is that there are about 15 million tokens (as far as anyone can
> figure) that are out of circulation, sitting in a warehouse somewhere. These
> are to replace losses over time.
>
> This self-imposed "shortage" stems from two different problems - people
> hoarding them to try and save money, and the TTC trying to prevent people
> from hoarding them, and loosing money.
>
> Dan
> Toronto, Ont.
>
> --- On Thu, 11/12/09, metisbus@... <metisbus@...> wrote:
>
>> From: metisbus@... <metisbus@...>
>> Subject: Re: <Transit-Toronto> Re: No Tokens for Sale
>> To: "Transit Toronto Email" <transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com>
>> Received: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 6:53 PM
>> Or is it just poor planning.
>>
>> The TTC should have ordered at least one token per person
>> at the current population of Toronto.
>>
>> 300,000 tokens for a population of 2.1 million people.
>>
>> Let's see: shortage of tokens, buses, streetcars, cash.
>> Anything else?
>>
>> Darren
>
>
>       __________________________________________________________________
> Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your
> favourite sites. Download it now
> http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

--
Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It seems to me that this whole hoarding situation is a direct result of the
TTC's rationing actions.  Any time you tell people that you are limiting
their purchases of anything, they will try to get more to make sure they
don't run out!

Imaging if the oil companies said "We're not going to raise prices, but you
can only buy 20L of fuel at a time because the stations might run out."
There would be line-ups everywhere!

The TTC is causing a panic situation and ONLY THE TTC IS TO BLAME.  It's all
asinine.  I can not believe that a significant proportion of riders have
hundreds of dollars sitting around that they could afford to sink into
"token futures."  It would be interesting to see what would happen if they
made the announcement that prices were to go up but didn't limit purchases
until 2 weeks before the hike.  I would guess that overall sales between
initial announcement and actual hike would be statistically similar with and
without long term rationing.

Thanks,
Christian.
|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|
Christian Base

"When a train pulls into a great city I am reminded of the closing moments
of an overture." - Graham Greene



On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 08:25, Dan Garcia <smallspy_g@...> wrote:

> Contrary to what most might think, there is no shortage of tokens.
>
> The TTC two years ago ordered 20 million tokens, and followed that up in
> short order with a further 20 million.
>
> The problem is that there are about 15 million tokens (as far as anyone can
> figure) that are out of circulation, sitting in a warehouse somewhere. These
> are to replace losses over time.
>
> This self-imposed "shortage" stems from two different problems - people
> hoarding them to try and save money, and the TTC trying to prevent people
> from hoarding them, and loosing money.
>
> Dan
> Toronto, Ont.
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Actually, if I remember correctly it was the switch to the bimetallic
tokens rather than the elimination of tickets which led to this move,
although it would likely have been required if those changes had happened
in reverse order. The bimetallic mini-toonie style tokens are apparently
somewhere in the area of twice the weight, and other changes were required
to accommodate them including reducing the number of cases staff were
allowed / expected to carry at once, etc.

Milton.

   On Fri, 13 Nov 2009, Michael Iszak wrote:

>  
>
> You are correct Dan.
>
> A little while back, the TTC had to reinforce the floors at the Paton building
(part of the
> TTC's Hillcrest property). The Paton building is the TTC's "bank", housing
everything
> revenue-related (tokens, passes, etc...).
>
> They had to do this with the elimination of tickets due to the increased
weight of tokens.
>
> A friend of mine that works there told me there's (these are unofficial
numbers, of course)
> around 5 million dollars in tokens. So that's fairly close to the 15 million
estimate (more
> exactly, 11.25 million).
> ---
>
> Sent on the Tele-Mobile network with BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dan Garcia <smallspy_g@...>
> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 05:25:11
> To: <transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: <Transit-Toronto> Re: No Tokens for Sale
>
> Contrary to what most might think, there is no shortage of tokens.
>
> The TTC two years ago ordered 20 million tokens, and followed that up in short
order with a
> further 20 million.
>
> The problem is that there are about 15 million tokens (as far as anyone can
figure) that
> are out of circulation, sitting in a warehouse somewhere. These are to replace
losses over
> time.
>
> This self-imposed "shortage" stems from two different problems - people
hoarding them to
> try and save money, and the TTC trying to prevent people from hoarding them,
and loosing
> money.
>
> Dan
> Toronto, Ont.
>
> --- On Thu, 11/12/09, metisbus@... <metisbus@...> wrote:
>
> > From: metisbus@... <metisbus@...>
> > Subject: Re: <Transit-Toronto> Re: No Tokens for Sale
> > To: "Transit Toronto Email" <transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com>
> > Received: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 6:53 PM
> > Or is it just poor planning.
> >
> > The TTC should have ordered at least one token per person
> > at the current population of Toronto.
> >
> > 300,000 tokens for a population of 2.1 million people.
> >
> > Let's see: shortage of tokens, buses, streetcars, cash.
> > Anything else?
> >
> > Darren
>
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your
favourite sites.
> Download it now
> http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Wonder if there will be a great token robbery one day. Cheers, Moaz

On 11/13/09, Michael Iszak <miszak.mobile@...> wrote:
> You are correct Dan.
>
> A little while back, the TTC had to reinforce the floors at the Paton
> building (part of the TTC's Hillcrest property).  The Paton building is the
> TTC's "bank", housing everything revenue-related (tokens, passes, etc...).
>
> They had to do this with the elimination of tickets due to the increased
> weight of tokens.
>
> A friend of mine that works there told me there's (these are unofficial
> numbers, of course) around 5 million dollars in tokens.  So that's fairly
> close to the 15 million estimate (more exactly, 11.25 million).
> ---
>
> Sent on the Tele-Mobile network with BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dan Garcia <smallspy_g@...>
> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 05:25:11
> To: <transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: <Transit-Toronto> Re: No Tokens for Sale
>
> Contrary to what most might think, there is no shortage of tokens.
>
> The TTC two years ago ordered 20 million tokens, and followed that up in
> short order with a further 20 million.
>
> The problem is that there are about 15 million tokens (as far as anyone can
> figure) that are out of circulation, sitting in a warehouse somewhere. These
> are to replace losses over time.
>
> This self-imposed "shortage" stems from two different problems - people
> hoarding them to try and save money, and the TTC trying to prevent people
> from hoarding them, and loosing money.
>
> Dan
> Toronto, Ont.
>
> --- On Thu, 11/12/09, metisbus@... <metisbus@...> wrote:
>
>> From: metisbus@... <metisbus@...>
>> Subject: Re: <Transit-Toronto> Re: No Tokens for Sale
>> To: "Transit Toronto Email" <transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com>
>> Received: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 6:53 PM
>> Or is it just poor planning.
>>
>> The TTC should have ordered at least one token per person
>> at the current population of Toronto.
>>
>> 300,000 tokens for a population of 2.1 million people.
>>
>> Let's see: shortage of tokens, buses, streetcars, cash.
>> Anything else?
>>
>> Darren
>
>
>       __________________________________________________________________
> Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your
> favourite sites. Download it now
> http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

--
Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com

You are correct Dan.

A little while back, the TTC had to reinforce the floors at the Paton building
(part of the TTC's Hillcrest property).  The Paton building is the TTC's "bank",
housing everything revenue-related (tokens, passes, etc...).

They had to do this with the elimination of tickets due to the increased weight
of tokens.

A friend of mine that works there told me there's (these are unofficial numbers,
of course) around 5 million dollars in tokens.  So that's fairly close to the 15
million estimate (more exactly, 11.25 million).
---

Sent on the Tele-Mobile network with BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Garcia <smallspy_g@...>
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 05:25:11
To: <transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: <Transit-Toronto> Re: No Tokens for Sale

Contrary to what most might think, there is no shortage of tokens.

The TTC two years ago ordered 20 million tokens, and followed that up in short
order with a further 20 million.

The problem is that there are about 15 million tokens (as far as anyone can
figure) that are out of circulation, sitting in a warehouse somewhere. These are
to replace losses over time.

This self-imposed "shortage" stems from two different problems - people hoarding
them to try and save money, and the TTC trying to prevent people from hoarding
them, and loosing money.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

--- On Thu, 11/12/09, metisbus@... <metisbus@...> wrote:

> From: metisbus@... <metisbus@...>
> Subject: Re: <Transit-Toronto> Re: No Tokens for Sale
> To: "Transit Toronto Email" <transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com>
> Received: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 6:53 PM
> Or is it just poor planning.
>
> The TTC should have ordered at least one token per person
> at the current population of Toronto.
>
> 300,000 tokens for a population of 2.1 million people.
>
> Let's see: shortage of tokens, buses, streetcars, cash.
> Anything else?
>
> Darren


       __________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your
favourite sites. Download it now
http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 8:25 AM, Dan Garcia <smallspy_g@...> wrote:

> This self-imposed "shortage" stems from two different problems - people
hoarding them to try and save money, and the TTC trying to prevent people from
hoarding them, and loosing money.

Not so much losing money, as not gaining it by a fare increase.

Ed (economics is a funny thing, full of definitions) Treijs

Contrary to what most might think, there is no shortage of tokens.

The TTC two years ago ordered 20 million tokens, and followed that up in short
order with a further 20 million.

The problem is that there are about 15 million tokens (as far as anyone can
figure) that are out of circulation, sitting in a warehouse somewhere. These are
to replace losses over time.

This self-imposed "shortage" stems from two different problems - people hoarding
them to try and save money, and the TTC trying to prevent people from hoarding
them, and loosing money.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

--- On Thu, 11/12/09, metisbus@... <metisbus@...> wrote:

> From: metisbus@... <metisbus@...>
> Subject: Re: <Transit-Toronto> Re: No Tokens for Sale
> To: "Transit Toronto Email" <transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com>
> Received: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 6:53 PM
> Or is it just poor planning.
>
> The TTC should have ordered at least one token per person
> at the current population of Toronto.
>
> 300,000 tokens for a population of 2.1 million people.
>
> Let's see: shortage of tokens, buses, streetcars, cash.
> Anything else?
>
> Darren


       __________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your
favourite sites. Download it now
http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com.

--- In transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com, Moaz Ahmad <moaz.ahmad@...> wrote:
>
> What about a temporary reduction in the price of the day pass to cope with
> the token shortage?
>
> Cheers, Moaz

According to an editorial in The Star today, the 5 token limit has had an effect
and the TTC now "feels comfortable they won't run out completely".

Last week token sales rose 20% while ridership stayed flat.  Without tickets, is
this mess going to happen whenever there is a fare increase?

Full article here: 
http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorials/article/725142--ttc-fare-hike-is-unavo\
idable

> What about a temporary reduction in the price of the day pass to cope with
> the token shortage?

They are planing a fare increase to make MORE money ... not less ... so I don't
see them doing that ... EVER

What about a temporary reduction in the price of the day pass to cope with
the token shortage?

Cheers, Moaz

On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 8:45 AM, joel31 <joel31@...> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> --- In transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com <transit-toronto%40yahoogroups.com>,
> metisbus@... wrote:
> >
> > Or is it just poor planning.
> >
> > The TTC should have ordered at least one token per person at the current
> population of Toronto.
> >
> > 300,000 tokens for a population of 2.1 million people.
> >
> > Let's see: shortage of tokens, buses, streetcars, cash. Anything else?
> >
> > Darren
> >
> >
> > Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
> >
>
> It does seem to be quite a mess, especially with how much time we have
> before the fare increase actually happens. It's kind of interesting how fast
> this problem has escalated even though the increase has yet to be officially
> passed.
>
> The problem is no longer hoarding, it's people who want to make sure they
> have enough tokens for the week. With all the press this has gotten anybody
> is going to hold onto whatever tokens they can get It's too bad the TTC
> can't print out temporary tickets for a time like this, have them expire a
> week after the fare increase or something.
>
> Anybody who commutes regularly might want to bite the bullet and buy a
> metropass for December ASAP. By this rate cash fare is going to be the only
> option next month. Giambrone has made comments that he thinks the metropass
> increase is too high, lets hope it comes down a bit.
>
> On another note I got an email from the TTC today replying to the problems
> with the 509 I had on Nuit Blanche. They apologized and said it was
> unacceptable, and offered to mail me 2 free day passes to make up for it.
> Seemed like a pretty nice gesture, I was expecting the usual canned "stuff
> happens" response.
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com, metisbus@... wrote:
>
> Or is it just poor planning.
>
> The TTC should have ordered at least one token per person at the current
population of Toronto.
>
> 300,000 tokens for a population of 2.1 million people.
>
> Let's see: shortage of tokens, buses, streetcars, cash. Anything else?
>
> Darren
>
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
>

It does seem to be quite a mess, especially with how much time we have before
the fare increase actually happens.  It's kind of interesting how fast this
problem has escalated even though the increase has yet to be officially passed.

The problem is no longer hoarding, it's people who want to make sure they have
enough tokens for the week.  With all the press this has gotten anybody is going
to hold onto whatever tokens they can get It's too bad the TTC can't print out
temporary tickets for a time like this,  have them expire a week after the fare
increase or something.

Anybody who commutes regularly might want to bite the bullet and buy a metropass
for December ASAP.  By this rate cash fare is going to be the only option next
month.  Giambrone has made comments that he thinks the metropass increase is too
high, lets hope it comes down a bit.


On another note I got an email from the TTC today replying to the problems with
the 509 I had on Nuit Blanche.  They apologized and said it was unacceptable,
and offered to mail me 2 free day passes to make up for it.  Seemed like a
pretty nice gesture,  I was expecting the usual canned "stuff happens" response.

Or is it just poor planning.

The TTC should have ordered at least one token per person at the current
population of Toronto.

300,000 tokens for a population of 2.1 million people.

Let's see: shortage of tokens, buses, streetcars, cash. Anything else?

Darren


Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

Whats going on is that those booths have run out of tokens for the day... In the
good old days (up to the time adult tickets were phased out) the could just
print more tickets which would expire/require extra fare after the increase...
now the number of tokens is finite and if all of them are out of the hands of
the commission ... or a majority of them at least ... there is nothing the TTC
can do as they no longer have the option of producing cheap paper tickets on a
fast order.

--- In transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com, "drum118" <drum118@...> wrote:
>
> Pass through 3 subway stations today where notices are posted at the booth
saying they have no tokens for sale.
>
> First it was 10 for sale and quickly fall to 5 which was no surprise to me as
I saw it happen sooner than later.
>
> Now, none for sale raise a number of question as what is going on.
>
> Dave
>

Pass through 3 subway stations today where notices are posted at the booth
saying they have no tokens for sale.

First it was 10 for sale and quickly fall to 5 which was no surprise to me as I
saw it happen sooner than later.

Now, none for sale raise a number of question as what is going on.

Dave

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8DsUBv00DM

--- In transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com, "drum118" <drum118@...> wrote:
>
> Dufferin Construction today removed all of the existing Townsley Loop as well
Townsley Rd where streetcar once ran to and from. The only thing left standing
was the washroom and the grass.
>
> TTC 127 is on detour by Ford Dr until the loop is rebuilt for buses only as
well rebuilding Old Weston Rd from the loop to St Clair.
>
> Small amount of material still remain for the dump trucks when I left.
>
> Photo's to follow.
>
> Dave
>

Dufferin Construction today removed all of the existing Townsley Loop as well
Townsley Rd where streetcar once ran to and from. The only thing left standing
was the washroom and the grass.

TTC 127 is on detour by Ford Dr until the loop is rebuilt for buses only as well
rebuilding Old Weston Rd from the loop to St Clair.

Small amount of material still remain for the dump trucks when I left.

Photo's to follow.

Dave

Photo's and video's of my Nov 8 visit. My write up is in the comment section.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVk-r_a9FEo eastbound to station
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veA0PHNNx-I westbound from station
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8HicPQ2vNQ view from the top
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvQCq62zkH0 grand tour of the station

Dave

The Nova LFX is a pusher; the Van Hool is a tractor. Not quite a ripoff.

Mark Walton
mark.walton@...

-----Original Message-----
From: transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gmcnewlook
Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 10:16 PM
To: transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: <Transit-Toronto> Re: York Region close to signing deal to buy new
Viva buses

if they are buying the  NOVA LFX, they are pretty similar looking to a
vanhool so they keep  the unique look viva is going for, in fact the first
thing i thought when the  LFX was introduced and i saw the demonstrator
"thats a van hool ripoff"

--- In transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com, "nedcarlson2" <ned.carlson@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com, "Mark W. Walton" <mark.walton@>
wrote:
> >
> > I heard Van Hool is no longer interested in North America - is that
true?
> >
>
>
> No idea if they've said something, but were they ever all that interested?