For all who haven't noticed yet, Transit Toronto has been updated with a lot
of new stuff, including pics from preview #2 of the Sheppard Subway (Bayview
is officially my favorite station!!).

Head on over to http://transit.toronto.on.ca and take a look if you haven't
already...

BTW: Expect a URL for some of those pics I took on my vacation. Be
forewarned that I... well... suck at photography, but I do have some great
shots. Once I get all the pics formatted to a decent size (currently
3550x2300 resolution and take up 7 MB each as JPEG), I'll ship them off to
transit toronto, as well as post some elsewhere untill they get posted...

--- In transit-toronto@y..., "Michael Szemeredy" <szem@t...> wrote:
> For all who haven't noticed yet, Transit Toronto has been updated
with a lot
> of new stuff, including pics from preview #2 of the Sheppard
Subway [...]

I am *so* pleased that the TTC has gone back to the "official subway
font", whatever it's called!  (I've noticed it cropping up more
often of late (e.g., the fare tables), but naturally the station
walls are much more permanent than a .pdf file that has to get
updated for fare increases every year or so.)  It has so much more
character than, say, the Helvetica-ish stations -- not to mention
the TTC history.

Brent

Was reading the article in transit.toronto (link:
http://transit.toronto.on.ca/transit.cfm?tt=bus&id=8505 ) -- still a
couple of questions:

a) Are there any routes still with articulated service, or have they
all been retired by now?

b) The above article lists the retirement as being encouraged by
structural problems in the TTC's articulated fleet.  However, as
Mississauga's articulateds seem to have been fairly successful --
enough to have warranted a couple of fairly large orders, starting
with the 97 series -- was there some other policy reason why TTC
chose not to replace them with a newer, more reliable design?  In
addition to the success of the articulated buses in Misssissauga,
TTC has seen the benefits of articulation via the ALRVs, yet that
has not transferred to bus service.

Brent

Was out in the east end on the Queen car on Sunday, and noticed that
there are at least 3 intersections on the route with the new special
transitized traffic lights -- with the extra lens above the red
light, the white vertical bar (the colour is actually officially
called "lunar white", I believe the same as pedestrian "walking man"
signals).  One of the intersections was Queen at Kingston Road.

These signals have been designated in the Canadian Manual of Uniform
Traffic Control Devices (MUTCD -- a sign, signal and pavement
marking catalogue, so to speak) for several years, but these are the
first examples I've seen in the GTA (unfortunately I did not get to
see the special lights in action).  Was wondering if anyone knows of
any other locations where these signals are used, and if anyone can
describe the light sequence (e.g. does it come on right after the
green or right before -- or both -- and how long does it last).  I'd
also be curious as to whether these signals will eventually replace
the separate transit-only signals on Spadina, Queens Quay etc.

Brent

These lunar lights are used as well at the corner of Queen;s Quay and
Bathurst (I think Bathurst anyway...somewhere down there).

It goes on at the same time as the "Walk" signal, I believe.

Anyone have any thoughts?

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "bjhtn" <bjhtn@...>
To: <transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 9:57 PM
Subject: <Transit-Toronto> Transit traffic signals - white vertical bar


> Was out in the east end on the Queen car on Sunday, and noticed that
> there are at least 3 intersections on the route with the new special
> transitized traffic lights -- with the extra lens above the red
> light, the white vertical bar (the colour is actually officially
> called "lunar white", I believe the same as pedestrian "walking man"
> signals).  One of the intersections was Queen at Kingston Road.
>
> These signals have been designated in the Canadian Manual of Uniform
> Traffic Control Devices (MUTCD -- a sign, signal and pavement
> marking catalogue, so to speak) for several years, but these are the
> first examples I've seen in the GTA (unfortunately I did not get to
> see the special lights in action).  Was wondering if anyone knows of
> any other locations where these signals are used, and if anyone can
> describe the light sequence (e.g. does it come on right after the
> green or right before -- or both -- and how long does it last).  I'd
> also be curious as to whether these signals will eventually replace
> the separate transit-only signals on Spadina, Queens Quay etc.
>
> Brent
>
>
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> Transit Toronto Website:  http://transit.toronto.on.ca
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>   mailto:transit-toronto-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

There is one of these busses still in operation on the 53 Steeles East
route.  I think there's only one, because I see it very infrequently,
usually only once a day, at best.  I /THINK/ I've seen one on the Finch East
route as well, but not certain.

Mike


----- Original Message -----
From: "bjhtn" <bjhtn@...>
To: <transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 9:49 PM
Subject: <Transit-Toronto> Articulated buses


> Was reading the article in transit.toronto (link:
> http://transit.toronto.on.ca/transit.cfm?tt=bus&id=8505 ) -- still a
> couple of questions:
>
> a) Are there any routes still with articulated service, or have they
> all been retired by now?
>
> b) The above article lists the retirement as being encouraged by
> structural problems in the TTC's articulated fleet.  However, as
> Mississauga's articulateds seem to have been fairly successful --
> enough to have warranted a couple of fairly large orders, starting
> with the 97 series -- was there some other policy reason why TTC
> chose not to replace them with a newer, more reliable design?  In
> addition to the success of the articulated buses in Misssissauga,
> TTC has seen the benefits of articulation via the ALRVs, yet that
> has not transferred to bus service.
>
> Brent
>
>
> =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
> Transit Toronto Website:  http://transit.toronto.on.ca
> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank e-mail to:
>   mailto:transit-toronto-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

>Was out in the east end on the Queen car on Sunday, and noticed that
>there are at least 3 intersections on the route with the new special
>transitized traffic lights -- with the extra lens above the red
>light, the white vertical bar (the colour is actually officially
>called "lunar white", I believe the same as pedestrian "walking man"
>signals).  One of the intersections was Queen at Kingston Road.

There is one at Queen and Broadview for the 504 streetcars turning east to
north that is not currently in use due to the diversion.  There is one at
Dundas and Broadview for the east to north turn that is usually for the
Dundas cars, but is now benefitting the King ones as well.  These are not
lunar white aspects like Queen and Spadina and King and Adelaide.  They are
green left turn arrows that come up when a streetcar N/As (automatically
opens the switch to turn left).   In both cases the priority green comes up
after the north / south aspects turn to red.
>
>Was wondering if anyone knows of
>any other locations where these signals are used,

Queen and Spadina (south to east and west to north) and Spadina and Adelaide
(S to E) have lunar white bars.  That means the streetcars can turn and all
other aspects are red.  These come up when a streetcar N/A's the appropriate
switch.

There is a green arrow to the right at Fleet and Bathurst to turn E to S
(the regular 509 routing).  This only comes up when a streetcar N/A's to go
right.  It stays up for about 7 seconds and then there are another 7 seconds
when all aspects in the intersection are red to allow the streetcars to
finish the turns.  This same sequence will come up when there is a N/B
streetcar on Bathurst at Fleet / Lakeshore (a w/b 509).  The light will come
up whether the streetcar N/A's to go straight up Bathurst or does not NA to
turn on to Fleet St.

There is a left green arrow to turn from E/B Queens Quay into the QQ and
Spadina loop.  This sends the westbound traffic and pedestrian signals red
and will only come up when a streetcar automatically opens that switch.  The
traffic signal eastbound is green.

There is a green advanced arrow that comes up on St. Clair westbound at
Vaughan Rd.  It comes up when a streetcar N/As to turn on to Vaughan and
comes up with a green for the westbound traffic while the eastbound aspect
is red.

In addition many intersections along the streetcar and select bus routes
have signal priority that allow transit vehicles to hold a green aspect up
to 30 seconds longer than normal.  As soon as the front of the vehicle is
about 3/4 of the way into the intersection, the light will go yellow even if
the 30 seconds are not up.

>describe the light sequence (e.g. does it come on right after the
>green or right before

I believe in all cases it comes up before the green for the direction of
travel.

  -- or both -- and how long does it last).  I'd
>also be curious as to whether these signals will eventually replace
>the separate transit-only signals on Spadina, Queens Quay etc.
>
The signals in question are for turns.  The transit only signals on Queens
Quay work well enough - if only the motorists would pay attention to them!
The ones on Queens Quay can come up before or after a green in the direction
of travel BTW.

Regards,

Rob

T.T.C. has 19 Orion 3 Ikarus Articulated buses left all out of Malvern
Garage. These buses see service in rush hours on 39 Finch East and/or 53
Steeles East. The artics in Mississauga are New Flyer D60 and D60LF. T.T.C.
had an order for New Flyer Artics but the Artics failed the shaker test.


>From: "bjhtn" <bjhtn@...>
>Reply-To: transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com
>To: transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: <Transit-Toronto> Articulated buses
>Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 04:49:54 -0000
>
>Was reading the article in transit.toronto (link:
>http://transit.toronto.on.ca/transit.cfm?tt=bus&id=8505 ) -- still a
>couple of questions:
>
>a) Are there any routes still with articulated service, or have they
>all been retired by now?
>
>b) The above article lists the retirement as being encouraged by
>structural problems in the TTC's articulated fleet.  However, as
>Mississauga's articulateds seem to have been fairly successful --
>enough to have warranted a couple of fairly large orders, starting
>with the 97 series -- was there some other policy reason why TTC
>chose not to replace them with a newer, more reliable design?  In
>addition to the success of the articulated buses in Misssissauga,
>TTC has seen the benefits of articulation via the ALRVs, yet that
>has not transferred to bus service.
>
>Brent
>




_________________________________________________________________
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There are a few reasons why Toronto never really grew fond of artics...

They were sold on a particular model by the Canadian government which had a
chassis designed with an extremely small lifespan. This meant that heavy
maitenance had to be performed quite early during its life. The maitenance
cost of these vehicles was higher during testing phases (but that would have
easily been rectified if the TTC would have invested and created a garage
designed for their maitenance, if and when it decided to acqure a large
number of them). Also, if I remember correctly, the Orion artics had
taraction problems during icy conditions where the back end would slide all
over the place. There are others I don't remember...

Had they purchased GM artics like Missasauga did instead of Orion Icarus
artics, it would probably be a whole different story...

I for one would love seeing D60LFs (New Flyer 60 ft articulated low-floor
buses, which is what Missasauga's newer artics are) rolling around Toronto.
It would eliminate the need for alot of busses, allowing the TTC to free up
some rolling stock for other routes.

Around Ontario, transit systems have used/are using these artics:
OC Transpo:
    New Flyer (D60LF) (?? in service)
    Orion (Ikarus) (?? in service, many Ex TTC)
    GM New Look (TA60-102N) (1 in service Ex HSR, original batch
          was sold to Missasauga Transit)
Missasauga Transit:
    GM Classic (TA60-102N) (retired)
    GM New Look (TA60-102N) (retired)
    New Flyer (D60LF) (65 in service)
Toronto Transit Commission:
    GM New Look (TA60-102N) (sold to Missasauga Transit)
    Orion (Ikarus) (61 originally, 19 rebuilt, ?? in service)
Hamilton Street Railway:
    GM New Look (TA60-102N) (6 in service, 3 of which are Ex OC Transpo)

Ironically, as far as Toronto transit goes, the D60LF and D60HF (high floor)
are also available in an electric trolley configuration as the E60LF and
E60HF (San Francisco uses the latter).
http://www.busexplorer.com/NABus/MidSize/SanFranciscoNewFlyerE60.html
http://web.presby.edu/~jtbell/transit/SanFrancisco/TC/DalyCity.jpg

Hi
I was at the fireworks last night at the Beaches. And just like on Vic Day, the
traffic is so bad that the bus gets stuck in the traffic. It is almost faster to
walk up to Coxwell Station.

My question is. During special events. Why is Coxwell not made a transit zone.
And cars be banned from the street, so that TTC can have free movement.

I am sorry. But when a place like that has a festival, there is no need for
people to have to sit in a car. The TTC serves the area fine.

So anyway I think something should be done.

On a nice note(well I don't know if it is nice)my parents where at another
fireworks and drove. And even with heavy traffic, I got home in approx 45min
from the Beaches, using TTC.

My parents where stuck in a parking lot for one hour. And they where closer to
our house.

So TTC is the better way.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- Sean Nix <transport2000brampton@...> wrote:
> JOIN US ON THE STREETCAR IN JULY
>
> Join Transport 2000 Ontario on a TTC PCC Streetcar
> on
> Saturday, July 20, 2002.
>
> This special event is not only a benefit for the
> association, but a chance for members to meet and
> discuss their local issues.  Members are invited to
> the regular Transport 2000 Ontario Board meeting
> following this excursion.  We expect to meet at the
> Matty Eckler Community Centre at 1:00 p.m., however,
> if the Toronto City strike continues to that date,
> we
> will inform you of a meeting venue change.
>
> We will begin the tour in Downtown Toronto on York
> St.
> at Wellington Ave. at 9:00 a.m. sharp.  Please be
> advised that anybody who arrives late will be left
> behind.  We will end the tour on Gerrard St. at Pape
> Ave. in front of the Matty Eckler Community Centre
> at
> about 12:00 p.m., allowing an hour for lunch before
> the board meeting.  (If in fact we are required to
> change the venue for the board meeting, we will take
> the 506 Carlton Streetcar to the appropriate
> location.
>  I will provide TTC tokens if necessary.)
>
> For those unable to attend the afternoon board
> meeting, an alternate discharge stop will be made at
> College Subway Station.  The Gerrard/Pape stop also
> connects with the 506 Carlton Streetcar, which
> connects with Main Street Subway Station, College
> Subway Station, and Queen's Park Station.  The stop
> also connects with the 75 Pape Bus, which connects
> with Pape Subway Station.
>
> As of press time, the routing will provide a tour of
> Toronto's newest portion of LRT (Queens Quay between
> Bathurst St. and Spadina Ave.), Chinatown via
> Spadina
> Ave., Little Italy via College St., the Polish
> District via Roncesvales Ave., the Beaches via Queen
> St., and Cabbagetown via Parliament St.  (On a
> personal note, you will also get to see my former
> institution of education, St. Michael's Choir
> School,
> and my new institution of education, Ryerson
> University, with the turn of your head.  The schools
> are literally across the street from each other.)
>
> Cost for the morning tour is $25 per rider ($10 per
> child under 12 years of age).  Proceeds will support
> Transport 2000 Ontario.
>
> To reserve, we will require all of the following:
>
> -your name
> -number of people attending
> -address
> -telephone number
> -cheque or money order
>
> Please send these to:
>
> Transport 2000 Ontario
> Box 6418
> Station A
> Toronto, Ontario
> M5W 1X3
>
> Payment and reservation must be received by Monday,
> July 8.  Due to limited seating, and the need for
> advance payment and reservations, it will not be
> possible to accept payments "at the farebox" on the
> day of the event.
>
> If you have any questions about the event, please
> either contact me by e-mail or by telephone at (416)
> 891-7550.  You can also contact Transport 2000
> Ontario
> at (416) 504-3934 .
>
>
> Sean Nix
> Director
> Transport 2000 Ontario
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
>
> Post your ad for free now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
>


______________________________________________________________________
Post your ad for free now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

Yeah but if you close off Coxwell Ave to auto traffic then they will find
another north - south road to take (Woodbine Ave or Greenwood Ave etc) Then
other bus routes will be effected (92 Woodbine South or 31 Greenwood etc)
Why inconvenience other routes for just one bus route?


>From: "Michael Binetti" <mtb.1@...>
>Reply-To: transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com
>To: "Transit-Toronto" <transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: <Transit-Toronto> Transit for fireworks
>Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 08:02:51 -0400
>
>Hi
>I was at the fireworks last night at the Beaches. And just like on Vic Day,
>the traffic is so bad that the bus gets stuck in the traffic. It is almost
>faster to walk up to Coxwell Station.
>
>My question is. During special events. Why is Coxwell not made a transit
>zone. And cars be banned from the street, so that TTC can have free
>movement.
>
>I am sorry. But when a place like that has a festival, there is no need for
>people to have to sit in a car. The TTC serves the area fine.
>
>So anyway I think something should be done.
>
>On a nice note(well I don't know if it is nice)my parents where at another
>fireworks and drove. And even with heavy traffic, I got home in approx
>45min from the Beaches, using TTC.
>
>My parents where stuck in a parking lot for one hour. And they where closer
>to our house.
>
>So TTC is the better way.
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>




_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

Yeah, these cars are almost dead ringers for TTC
vehicles.  One difference between the TTC and ATC (or
whatever they call it) - the Ankara system is not
trying to make do with 81% of revenues from the
farebox.  Such an elaborate subway/rt system could
only have been built with humungous subsidies from the
Turkish government.

Does Istanbul also have subways??


mb.

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Hi,

>Wasn't there a time in the not to distant past that stops were not
>called out at all on Toronto's Subways?

I've lived in Toronto and taken the TTC all my life (I'm 40 now).  I don't
recall *ever* hearing stops announced on the subway until 6 or 7 years ago.
  I recall being quite surprised the first time I heard the announcements.
Of course, this doesn't mean it never happened; just that I don't remember
it happening. :-)

Vern

--- Michael Szemeredy <szem@...> wrote:
> OC Transpo:
>    New Flyer (D60LF) (?? in service)
>    Orion (Ikarus) (?? in service, many Ex TTC)
>    GM New Look (TA60-102N) (1 in service Ex HSR, original
> batch
>          was sold to Missasauga Transit)

Last I heard, there were about 102 D60LFs in service in
Ottawa, fewer than 20 Ikarus artics (no ex-TTCs left, as
they were in awful condition), and that 1 GM artic has been
parked for over a year, and will likely never see service
again.

> Toronto Transit Commission:
>    GM New Look (TA60-102N) (sold to Missasauga Transit)
>    Orion (Ikarus) (61 originally, 19 rebuilt, ?? in
> service)

As Angelo already said, all 19 that were rebuilt are in
service. Another 9 remain on TTC property in dead storage.

> Hamilton Street Railway:
>    GM New Look (TA60-102N) (6 in service, 3 of which are
> Ex OC Transpo)

One of those artics died last fall; there are only 5 left
in Hamilton now, all of which will likely be rebuilt and
kept around for a few more years (one has already been
rebuilt, with the others likely soon to follow).



______________________________________________________________________
Post your ad for free now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

Angelo Huntingwood139 wrote:
> Yeah but if you close off Coxwell Ave to auto traffic then they will
> find another north - south road to take (Woodbine Ave or Greenwood
> Ave etc) Then other bus routes will be effected (92 Woodbine South or
> 31 Greenwood etc) Why inconvenience other routes for just one bus
> route?

It wouldn't hurt to have one route identified, and relied upon, to have an
exclusive ROW.  Coxwell or Greenwood, and not even necessarily both, could
have been restricted to two lanes of vehicular traffic, two lanes dedicated
bus for a couple of hours.  Would do wonders.

I really wish I knew what the barrier to this is. I'm sure people at the TTC
have thought of it - sometimes, as in the case of fleet street during the
Ex, the city closes off a street for the benefit of the TTC.  But who, at
what level, says "no", and how do either polititians or the public exert
influence to change their answer?

Angelo Huntingwood139 wrote:
> Yeah but if you close off Coxwell Ave to auto traffic then they will
> find another north - south road to take (Woodbine Ave or Greenwood
> Ave etc) Then other bus routes will be effected (92 Woodbine South or
> 31 Greenwood etc) Why inconvenience other routes for just one bus
> route?

It wouldn't hurt to have one route identified, and relied upon, to have an
exclusive ROW.  Coxwell or Greenwood, and not even necessarily both, could
have been restricted to two lanes of vehicular traffic, two lanes dedicated
bus for a couple of hours.  Would do wonders.

I really wish I knew what the barrier to this is. I'm sure people at the TTC
have thought of it - sometimes, as in the case of fleet street during the
Ex, the city closes off a street for the benefit of the TTC.  But who, at
what level, says "no", and how do either polititians or the public exert
influence to change their answer?

It's easy to sit here and say make Coxwell or Woodbine a transit priority
street. But where would the resident who live on these streets park? That is
your big problem.
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Stephen van Egmond
   To: transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com
   Cc: rocketriders@...
   Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 2:23 PM
   Subject: Re: <Transit-Toronto> Transit for fireworks


   Angelo Huntingwood139 wrote:
   > Yeah but if you close off Coxwell Ave to auto traffic then they will
   > find another north - south road to take (Woodbine Ave or Greenwood
   > Ave etc) Then other bus routes will be effected (92 Woodbine South or
   > 31 Greenwood etc) Why inconvenience other routes for just one bus
   > route?

   It wouldn't hurt to have one route identified, and relied upon, to have an
   exclusive ROW.  Coxwell or Greenwood, and not even necessarily both, could
   have been restricted to two lanes of vehicular traffic, two lanes dedicated
   bus for a couple of hours.  Would do wonders.

   I really wish I knew what the barrier to this is. I'm sure people at the TTC
   have thought of it - sometimes, as in the case of fleet street during the
   Ex, the city closes off a street for the benefit of the TTC.  But who, at
   what level, says "no", and how do either polititians or the public exert
   influence to change their answer?




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You'll find the white vertical bar light at the following locations:

Kingston Rd. & Queen- south to west- operated by streetcar covering loop in the
road. Streetcar has white bar, autos have a red.

Queen & Broadview - east to north - when streetcar activates the switch, it gets
the white bar and the eastbound autos get a regular green light.

Dundas & Broadview east to north - works for streetcars going east to north
only. If streetcar activates the switch to go south, no white bar.

All intersections where streetcars can turn on Spadina. When streetcar activates
the switch it gets the white bar, all other traffic gets a red.

Bathurst & Fleet & Lakeshore Blvd.
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: bjhtn
   To: transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 12:57 AM
   Subject: <Transit-Toronto> Transit traffic signals - white vertical bar


   Was out in the east end on the Queen car on Sunday, and noticed that
   there are at least 3 intersections on the route with the new special
   transitized traffic lights -- with the extra lens above the red
   light, the white vertical bar (the colour is actually officially
   called "lunar white", I believe the same as pedestrian "walking man"
   signals).  One of the intersections was Queen at Kingston Road.

   These signals have been designated in the Canadian Manual of Uniform
   Traffic Control Devices (MUTCD -- a sign, signal and pavement
   marking catalogue, so to speak) for several years, but these are the
   first examples I've seen in the GTA (unfortunately I did not get to
   see the special lights in action).  Was wondering if anyone knows of
   any other locations where these signals are used, and if anyone can
   describe the light sequence (e.g. does it come on right after the
   green or right before -- or both -- and how long does it last).  I'd
   also be curious as to whether these signals will eventually replace
   the separate transit-only signals on Spadina, Queens Quay etc.

   Brent


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You'll see that at Dundas and Broadview intersection
for the Dundas car to turn north on Broadview.

Arvis.

--- bjhtn <bjhtn@...> wrote:
> Was out in the east end on the Queen car on Sunday,
> and noticed that
> there are at least 3 intersections on the route with
> the new special
> transitized traffic lights -- with the extra lens
> above the red
> light, the white vertical bar (the colour is
> actually officially
> called "lunar white", I believe the same as
> pedestrian "walking man"
> signals).  One of the intersections was Queen at
> Kingston Road.
>
> These signals have been designated in the Canadian
> Manual of Uniform
> Traffic Control Devices (MUTCD -- a sign, signal and
> pavement
> marking catalogue, so to speak) for several years,
> but these are the
> first examples I've seen in the GTA (unfortunately I
> did not get to
> see the special lights in action).  Was wondering if
> anyone knows of
> any other locations where these signals are used,
> and if anyone can
> describe the light sequence (e.g. does it come on
> right after the
> green or right before -- or both -- and how long
> does it last).  I'd
> also be curious as to whether these signals will
> eventually replace
> the separate transit-only signals on Spadina, Queens
> Quay etc.
>
> Brent
>
>


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As for OC Transpo's Orion Ikarus, there should be at least 40 of the best ones
left.

From what I have heard, the GM Artic 8222 and OC's 8501 (the first Orion Ikarus)
have been retired and both buses are part of the historical fleet.
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Richard Hooles
   To: transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 3:17 PM
   Subject: Re: <Transit-Toronto> Articulated buses

   Last I heard, there were about 102 D60LFs in service in
   Ottawa, fewer than 20 Ikarus artics (no ex-TTCs left, as
   they were in awful condition), and that 1 GM artic has been
   parked for over a year, and will likely never see service
   again.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In transit-toronto@y..., Richard Hooles <rhooles@y...> wrote:

> > Hamilton Street Railway:
> >    GM New Look (TA60-102N) (6 in service, 3 of which are
> > Ex OC Transpo)
>
> One of those artics died last fall; there are only 5 left
> in Hamilton now, all of which will likely be rebuilt and
> kept around for a few more years (one has already been
> rebuilt, with the others likely soon to follow).

The Hamilton ones are rarely seen.  As far as I know they're only
being used as school extras on routes like 41 Mohawk and 35 College.
Could be wrong.  HSR has focussed its new vehicle acquisition on its
controversial low-floor buses, which have significantly less capacity
(about 75% of a regular bus) and which struggle to get up the
escarpment (15 km/h going up the James/West 5th hill is not uncommon).

Funny how Mississauga and Ottawa are going full strength on the
artics, but TTC just gave up on them.  Guess it just goes to show
that first impressions really do count.

Thanks, everyone, for the info.

Brent

Thanks, everybody, for the info on this issue.  (Maybe a new topic
for the t-t site: various transit priority signal measures?)

How recent are these signals?  Is it a program that is just getting
started, with many more to come, or are these going to be pretty much
it?

Are there any warrants TTC uses?  It seems like they fall into two
categories: unusual turns, particularly right turns (particularly
beneficial from a safety point of view in the Spadina instances), and
very heavy traffic turns (like the Dundas/Broadview and
Queen/Kingston ones)...

Brent

We all know that Sheppard will be identified on maps with a purple
line...

What about the stations?  (B/D = white, Y/U/S = red, SRT = yellow...
Sheppard = ?)

Brent

Interesting news.  Developers in 905 (and 416) are very commonly
required by municipalities to provide full or partial funding for
roadway modifications, such as turn lanes or new traffic signals.
For some reason transit does not often seem to get similar
treatment.  Good to see it in this instance.

Come to think of it, didn't developers back in the early 20th century
build the streetcar track to serve the neighbourhoods/subdivisions
they were building?  Ah, the good ole days.

Brent
-----------------------

Developer contributes to transit improvements

     TORONTO, June 20 /CNW/ - The TTC and City of Toronto Councillor
David
Miller announce a significant financial contribution from a developer
to
improve transit facilities in west-end Toronto. REON Development
Corporation,
the company building a new residential community on the former
Swansea steel
works at The Queensway and Windermere Avenue, will contribute
$120,000 to
improve transit and pedestrian amenities at the site.
     Councillor Miller, a TTC Commissioner, will accept the $120,000
cheque on
Friday on behalf of the TTC and Swansea residents. "The contribution
from REON
Development Corporation will be used to construct new, bigger, and
more
attractive streetcar passenger platforms at Queensway/Windermere, the
installation of modern passenger-friendly shelters, a new decorative
safety
railing, a pedestrian refuge for people crossing The Queensway, and,
if
possible, some trees and landscaping to make the entire intersection
softer
and more attractive. This is important, both as a means of making the
streets
around the new development more pedestrian-friendly, and in order to
make the
experience of taking transit as pleasant as possible for both current
and new
residents of the area", said Councillor Miller.
     Michael Peterson, President of REON Development Corporation
added, "We
are committed to improving the communities in which we build, and
making the
streets and pedestrian and transit facilities in the Swansea area more
attractive and safe is a fundamental part of that commitment. We are
pleased
to be helping out through this financial contribution".
     Frequent TTC streetcar service has operated along the Queensway
since the
1950s, on tracks, which are separated from other road traffic,
resulting in a
fast ride for passengers. The private investment in platform
improvements
complements recent TTC investments in upgraded track along the route.

Actually, it was the Ontario government, not the federal (Canadian) government,
that sold the TTC on those artics.

Mark Walton
mark.walton@...

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Michael Szemeredy
   To: transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 4:20 AM
   Subject: Re: <Transit-Toronto> Articulated buses


   There are a few reasons why Toronto never really grew fond of artics...

   They were sold on a particular model by the Canadian government which had a
   chassis designed with an extremely small lifespan.

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   Transit Toronto Website:  http://transit.toronto.on.ca
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In Los Angeles it was the streetcar and not the automobile began the
suburban sprawl.  Streetcar lines were built in the early part of the 20th
century, by real estate developers and ran from downtown to their new
development.  The developer made most of their money by selling property and
the streetcars operated at a loss.  Sub divisions without streetcar access
to the city did not sell at the same high prices.

I do not know of any similar story in the Toronto area.  Here the streetcar
companies were corporately tied to the electric companies.

Jeffrey


>From: "bjhtn" <bjhtn@...>
>Reply-To: transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com
>To: transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: <Transit-Toronto> TTC press release: Developer contributes to
>transit improvements
>Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 01:50:50 -0000
>
>Interesting news.  Developers in 905 (and 416) are very commonly
>required by municipalities to provide full or partial funding for
>roadway modifications, such as turn lanes or new traffic signals.
>For some reason transit does not often seem to get similar
>treatment.  Good to see it in this instance.
>
>Come to think of it, didn't developers back in the early 20th century
>build the streetcar track to serve the neighbourhoods/subdivisions
>they were building?  Ah, the good ole days.
>
>Brent
>-----------------------


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Frank Hood (fahood@...) wrote:
> It's easy to sit here and say make Coxwell or Woodbine a transit priority
street. But where would the resident who live on these streets park? That is
your big problem.

As far as I know - I'll have to check the signs - residents don't park
on those streets, since they're cleared from 7-9 or 4-6, depending on
direction, for rush hour.  That's certainly the case on Dundas near
Coxwell.  Residents park on side streets.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen van Egmond" <svanegmond@...>
To: <transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 1:09 AM
Subject: Re: <Transit-Toronto> Transit for fireworks


> Frank Hood (fahood@...) wrote:
> > It's easy to sit here and say make Coxwell or Woodbine a transit
priority street. But where would the resident who live on these streets
park? That is your big problem.
>

Hi
For a time span of 20min till everyone is cleared out. I don't think it is a
big deal to residents. They can still park. As long as the traffic lane is
free for buses, that is all that counts.

As it is, the residents have to contend with stop and go traffic for over an
hour. I am sure they would rather have everything cleared in 30min by a
transit only route.

"Stephen van Egmond" <svanegmond@...> wrote:

>> I really wish I knew what the barrier to this is. I'm sure people at the
TTC
have thought of it - sometimes, as in the case of fleet street during the
Ex, the city closes off a street for the benefit of the TTC.  But who, at
what level, says "no", and how do either polititians or the public exert
influence to change their answer? <<

Usually City of Toronto Transportation staff say "no". Occasionally a city
councillor intervenes to prevent transit priority iniatives, as well.


"bjhtn" <bjhtn@...> wrote, about articulated buses:

>> Funny how Mississauga and Ottawa are going full strength on the
artics, but TTC just gave up on them.  Guess it just goes to show
that first impressions really do count.<<

The TTC has a stated desire to purchase about 155 articulated buses. The
last time a tender was issued, there were no compliant bids (New Flyer was
in financial trouble, and couldn't meet the bid bond requirements; and/or
the D60LF hadn't passed the TTC's structural standards). A purchase of
artics has not been ruled out.


"bjhtn" <bjhtn@...> wrote, about white vertical bar signals:

>> Are there any warrants TTC uses?  It seems like they fall into two
categories: unusual turns, particularly right turns (particularly
beneficial from a safety point of view in the Spadina instances), and
very heavy traffic turns (like the Dundas/Broadview and
Queen/Kingston ones)...<<

The white vertical bar signal was originally approved by the province (after
many delays) in response to a TTC request for a signal which would allow
streetcars to make an advanced east-to-north left turn from Queen to
Broadview at times when the same turn was prohibited for other road traffic.
Thus, a flashing green ball or flashing green arrow couldn't practically be
used, because motorists would interpret that as permission for them to turn.
Internally at the TTC, the decision was made to use the white vertical bar
only for turns, which is why you don't see it at straight through
intersections, on Queens Quay at Rees, for example. Approval for a white
angled and white horizontal bar, which would allow other uses, was
unfortunately not sought at the same time as the white vertical bar.


"bjhtn" <bjhtn@...> wrote, about developer contributes to transit
improvements

>> Interesting news.  Developers in 905 (and 416) are very commonly
required by municipalities to provide full or partial funding for
roadway modifications, such as turn lanes or new traffic signals.
For some reason transit does not often seem to get similar
treatment.  Good to see it in this instance. <<

Transit doesn't get similar treatment because contributions to public
transit by developers are specifically excluded from Section 37 of the
Planning Act, which is the section that gives municipalities the right to
require payments for specified public services from developers. Attempts by
the TTC to get the City of Toronto to lobby the province for changes to the
act have not yet been successful.

Scott Haskill
Toronto, Canada