If you close the street and say buses only and residents of the area. You then
have to pay someone to man the road block.
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Michael Binetti
   To: transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 1:17 AM
   Subject: Re: <Transit-Toronto> Transit for fireworks



   ----- Original Message -----
   From: "Stephen van Egmond" <svanegmond@...>
   To: <transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com>
   Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 1:09 AM
   Subject: Re: <Transit-Toronto> Transit for fireworks


   > Frank Hood (fahood@...) wrote:
   > > It's easy to sit here and say make Coxwell or Woodbine a transit
   priority street. But where would the resident who live on these streets
   park? That is your big problem.
   >

   Hi
   For a time span of 20min till everyone is cleared out. I don't think it is a
   big deal to residents. They can still park. As long as the traffic lane is
   free for buses, that is all that counts.

   As it is, the residents have to contend with stop and go traffic for over an
   hour. I am sure they would rather have everything cleared in 30min by a
   transit only route.




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Interesting read...

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,53591,00.html

Choo-Choo Trains on Energy Crunch
By Erik Baard
  Print this  .  E-mail it
2:00 a.m. July 3, 2002 PDT

Sierra Railroad thinks it can (It knows it can! It knows it can!) make
electricity to meet California's peak summer demands. The short-touring and
freight line, based in Oakdale, has 48 diesel locomotive engines in a rail
yard waiting to produce 100 megawatts of electricity for use on the power
grid.

Moreover, the company is going to fuel them with 100-percent biodiesel, a
cleaner-burning vegetable oil equivalent of the familiar petroleum product.

The California Consumer Power and Conservation Financing Authority has
signed on to buy the locomotive project's electrical output for five years
as part of the agency's plan to buy 250 megawatts of environmentally benign,
or "green," electricity per year.

"A typical modern locomotive is just a rolling generator," said Sierra
Railroad chief executive Mike Hart, whose company is the oldest independent
railroad in California, perhaps best known to steampunk aficionados for
providing the time traveling 19th century locomotive to the movie, Back to
the Future III.
In the 1982 GE diesel engines central to Sierra Railroad's PowerTrainUSA
project, electricity produced by the engine is normally sent to wheel motors
and converted into 3,000 horsepower of mechanical strength. But these
locomotives will run in place, instead pumping 2.1 megawatts each onto the
grid for 1,000 hours per year when electricity demand is exceptionally high.
The total output will be enough to supply 100,000 homes, though it will be
spread thinly among all users of the grid.

For the moment, however, PowerTrainUSA sits idle in all senses.
While regulators have approved most aspects of Hart's plan, California
currently has a short-term energy glut due to recent power plant building to
compensate for shortages and blackouts in summers past. "We've been standing
by since last August last year, month by month, ready to go. We're just
waiting for the governor's approval," Hart says.

PowerTrainUSA does have one key advantage: mobility. Being a cluster of
locomotives, after all, this power plant can chug over to where it's needed.
Often the biggest hurdle electrical system operators face isn't just making
enough electricity, but moving it from producers to users. Localized demand
spikes, power-plant failures and downed transmission lines can create
bottlenecks on the grid.

PowerTrainUSA has ABB solid-state inverters (to turn direct current into
marketable 60-Hz alternating current) loaded onto 12 former Long Island
Railroad commuter coaches. When PowerTrainUSA arrives at its destination,
all it needs is to hook up to a transformer to match the grid's voltage
specifications. In some ways, the concept isn't new -- as an island city,
New York does much the same with generator barges.

Another goal of PowerTrainUSA is to demonstrate that locomotive engines can
operate well using alternative fuels like biodiesel, which is derived mostly
from soy oil in the United States, but can also be made from other vegetable
oils, animal fat and discarded cooking grease.

PowerTrainUSA is buying its fuel from World Energy Alternatives, a
Massachusetts company that's the nation's largest biodiesel manufacturer.

Producing biodiesel is a relatively simple process. The triglyceride oil
molecule that is the basis of biodiesel is shaped like a trident. Its base
is glycerin and the three prongs are long chains of fatty acids, which can
be broken away by a chemical reaction with alcohols like methanol or
ethanol. Those fatty acids -- primarily 16 to 18 carbon atoms strung in a
line -- have a viscosity and power density similar to petrodiesel but with
greater lubricity.

Biodiesel burns cleaner because it contains oxygen (petroleum products must
be oxygenated artificially) and is also more biodegradable; and it is safer
to handle and transport because it is less likely to ignite than other
fuels.

Biodiesel reduces particulate matter by 40 percent, and the remaining
particulate matter that shows up in emissions tests is primarily nontoxic
and biodegradable unburned fuel. Carbon monoxide is down 44 percent compared
with petroleum diesel and unburned hydrocarbons are cut 68 percent.

Most importantly for the PowerTrainUSA effort, as a no-sulfur fuel,
biodiesel meets the Environmental Protection Agency's 2006 fuel requirements
and won't clog up equipment to remove smog causing nitrogen oxide. Carbon
dioxide is also reduced 80 percent compared with conventional petroleum. It
also happens to smell like French fries when combusted.

"We've been very satisfied with biodiesel. There's been no negative side at
all," Hart says. But biodiesel is pricey, Hart says. "It can cost us $3 a
gallon. Then again, we were working for a number of years on a concept to
reduce pollution by using natural gas, but gas prices spiked and spooked us
off." Hart is also exploring buying biodiesel made from canola oil, which
might be a more suitable crop for California farmers.

Because the locomotives burning biodiesel will be operating in place but at
maximum capacity with output read by sensitive electrical meters, Sierra
Railroad says, engineers will have ideal conditions under which to study
emissions, power production, engine wear and other issues of concern with a
new fuel.

The Orion 7 is back in service.  I saw it myself this morning (and nearly
rode on it) at Eglinton West station on 32B as was usual for it previously.

Time to get out the Kodak MAX, kids!

-Robert King

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What time and direction? Did you see the run number?

>From: "Robert King" <robaking@...>
>Reply-To: transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com
>To: transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: <Transit-Toronto> 1043
>Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 18:53:23 -0400
>
>The Orion 7 is back in service.  I saw it myself this morning (and nearly
>rode on it) at Eglinton West station on 32B as was usual for it previously.
>
>Time to get out the Kodak MAX, kids!
>
>-Robert King
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
>http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
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_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

The run number was obscured and it was short turning to head back westbound
at about 8:50 ish this morning.

-Robert King

>
>What time and direction? Did you see the run number?
>
> >From: "Robert King" <robaking@...>
> >Reply-To: transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com
> >To: transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: <Transit-Toronto> 1043
> >Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 18:53:23 -0400
> >
> >The Orion 7 is back in service.  I saw it myself this morning (and nearly
> >rode on it) at Eglinton West station on 32B as was usual for it
>previously.
> >
> >Time to get out the Kodak MAX, kids!
> >
> >-Robert King
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> >http://www.hotmail.com
> >
> >
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> >Transit Toronto Website:  http://transit.toronto.on.ca
> >To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank e-mail to:
> >   mailto:transit-toronto-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
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>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
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>
>
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_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

That should have been 7:50 ish this morning.

>
>The run number was obscured and it was short turning to head back westbound
>at about 8:50 ish this morning.
>
>-Robert King
>
> >
> >What time and direction? Did you see the run number?
> >
> > >From: "Robert King" <robaking@...>
> > >Reply-To: transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: <Transit-Toronto> 1043
> > >Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 18:53:23 -0400
> > >
> > >The Orion 7 is back in service.  I saw it myself this morning (and
>nearly
> > >rode on it) at Eglinton West station on 32B as was usual for it
> >previously.
> > >
> > >Time to get out the Kodak MAX, kids!
> > >
> > >-Robert King
> > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________
> > >Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> > >http://www.hotmail.com
> > >
> > >
> > >=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
> > >Transit Toronto Website:  http://transit.toronto.on.ca
> > >To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank e-mail to:
> > >   mailto:transit-toronto-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
> >
> >
> >=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
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> >To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank e-mail to:
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> >
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>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
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>




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For those who have no idea what the Orion 7 is, it's another half low-floor
half high-floor bus available in two flavors: CNG and Electric Hybrid.

Here are some pics and info about the Orion 7 TTC demonstrator, as well as
other demonstrators:

http://gtabus.natransit.com/misc/misc.html

About TTC's Hybrid Orion 7 test bus (from the link above):

The hybrid test bus runs out of Queensway with fleet number #1043. The bus
gained more labels than few days ago (above pictures), "hybrid electric bus"
on the sides as well as "BAE Systems" on the back. #1043 is usually to be
seen on 32B Eglinton West and 44 Kipling South. Her spectacular "Orion VII"
livery is very attractive to riders and other road users. The traction motor
provides very sufficient power to the bus. Lack of a side dest. sign, dim
"next stop" light and the absent of the bell cords (although there are
clearly labelled yellow stop request tapes between every window) are
problems during the operation. The bus is tested to see if the hybrid
technology is something for the TTC to consider in future bus procurement.

Now that this bus is around again, perhaps it's possible to try for a
charter again.



-----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: <Transit-Toronto> 1043


For those who have no idea what the Orion 7 is, it's another half low-floor
half high-floor bus available in two flavors: CNG and Electric Hybrid.

Here are some pics and info about the Orion 7 TTC demonstrator, as well as
other demonstrators:

http://gtabus.natransit.com/misc/misc.html

About TTC's Hybrid Orion 7 test bus (from the link above):

The hybrid test bus runs out of Queensway with fleet number #1043. The bus
gained more labels than few days ago (above pictures), "hybrid electric bus"
on the sides as well as "BAE Systems" on the back. #1043 is usually to be
seen on 32B Eglinton West and 44 Kipling South. Her spectacular "Orion VII"
livery is very attractive to riders and other road users. The traction motor
provides very sufficient power to the bus. Lack of a side dest. sign, dim
"next stop" light and the absent of the bell cords (although there are
clearly labelled yellow stop request tapes between every window) are
problems during the operation. The bus is tested to see if the hybrid
technology is something for the TTC to consider in future bus procurement.




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To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank e-mail to:
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This is not the first time locomotives have been used to provide stationary
power. During the 1998 ice storm, a CN M-420 was brought into Boucherville,
Quebec, near Montreal, to provide power. The fuel is certainly a novelty,
though.

Mark Walton
mark.walton@...

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Michael Szemeredy
   To: transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 5:52 PM
   Subject: <Transit-Toronto> Choo-Choo Trains on Energy Crunch


   Interesting read...

   http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,53591,00.html

   Choo-Choo Trains on Energy Crunch
   By Erik Baard
   Print this  .  E-mail it
   2:00 a.m. July 3, 2002 PDT

   Sierra Railroad thinks it can (It knows it can! It knows it can!) make
   electricity to meet California's peak summer demands. The short-touring and
   freight line, based in Oakdale, has 48 diesel locomotive engines in a rail
   yard waiting to produce 100 megawatts of electricity for use on the power
   grid.

   Moreover, the company is going to fuel them with 100-percent biodiesel, a
   cleaner-burning vegetable oil equivalent of the familiar petroleum product.

   The California Consumer Power and Conservation Financing Authority has
   signed on to buy the locomotive project's electrical output for five years
   as part of the agency's plan to buy 250 megawatts of environmentally benign,
   or "green," electricity per year.

   "A typical modern locomotive is just a rolling generator," said Sierra
   Railroad chief executive Mike Hart, whose company is the oldest independent
   railroad in California, perhaps best known to steampunk aficionados for
   providing the time traveling 19th century locomotive to the movie, Back to
   the Future III.
   In the 1982 GE diesel engines central to Sierra Railroad's PowerTrainUSA
   project, electricity produced by the engine is normally sent to wheel motors
   and converted into 3,000 horsepower of mechanical strength. But these
   locomotives will run in place, instead pumping 2.1 megawatts each onto the
   grid for 1,000 hours per year when electricity demand is exceptionally high.
   The total output will be enough to supply 100,000 homes, though it will be
   spread thinly among all users of the grid.

   For the moment, however, PowerTrainUSA sits idle in all senses.
   While regulators have approved most aspects of Hart's plan, California
   currently has a short-term energy glut due to recent power plant building to
   compensate for shortages and blackouts in summers past. "We've been standing
   by since last August last year, month by month, ready to go. We're just
   waiting for the governor's approval," Hart says.

   PowerTrainUSA does have one key advantage: mobility. Being a cluster of
   locomotives, after all, this power plant can chug over to where it's needed.
   Often the biggest hurdle electrical system operators face isn't just making
   enough electricity, but moving it from producers to users. Localized demand
   spikes, power-plant failures and downed transmission lines can create
   bottlenecks on the grid.

   PowerTrainUSA has ABB solid-state inverters (to turn direct current into
   marketable 60-Hz alternating current) loaded onto 12 former Long Island
   Railroad commuter coaches. When PowerTrainUSA arrives at its destination,
   all it needs is to hook up to a transformer to match the grid's voltage
   specifications. In some ways, the concept isn't new -- as an island city,
   New York does much the same with generator barges.

   Another goal of PowerTrainUSA is to demonstrate that locomotive engines can
   operate well using alternative fuels like biodiesel, which is derived mostly
   from soy oil in the United States, but can also be made from other vegetable
   oils, animal fat and discarded cooking grease.

   PowerTrainUSA is buying its fuel from World Energy Alternatives, a
   Massachusetts company that's the nation's largest biodiesel manufacturer.

   Producing biodiesel is a relatively simple process. The triglyceride oil
   molecule that is the basis of biodiesel is shaped like a trident. Its base
   is glycerin and the three prongs are long chains of fatty acids, which can
   be broken away by a chemical reaction with alcohols like methanol or
   ethanol. Those fatty acids -- primarily 16 to 18 carbon atoms strung in a
   line -- have a viscosity and power density similar to petrodiesel but with
   greater lubricity.

   Biodiesel burns cleaner because it contains oxygen (petroleum products must
   be oxygenated artificially) and is also more biodegradable; and it is safer
   to handle and transport because it is less likely to ignite than other
   fuels.

   Biodiesel reduces particulate matter by 40 percent, and the remaining
   particulate matter that shows up in emissions tests is primarily nontoxic
   and biodegradable unburned fuel. Carbon monoxide is down 44 percent compared
   with petroleum diesel and unburned hydrocarbons are cut 68 percent.

   Most importantly for the PowerTrainUSA effort, as a no-sulfur fuel,
   biodiesel meets the Environmental Protection Agency's 2006 fuel requirements
   and won't clog up equipment to remove smog causing nitrogen oxide. Carbon
   dioxide is also reduced 80 percent compared with conventional petroleum. It
   also happens to smell like French fries when combusted.

   "We've been very satisfied with biodiesel. There's been no negative side at
   all," Hart says. But biodiesel is pricey, Hart says. "It can cost us $3 a
   gallon. Then again, we were working for a number of years on a concept to
   reduce pollution by using natural gas, but gas prices spiked and spooked us
   off." Hart is also exploring buying biodiesel made from canola oil, which
   might be a more suitable crop for California farmers.

   Because the locomotives burning biodiesel will be operating in place but at
   maximum capacity with output read by sensitive electrical meters, Sierra
   Railroad says, engineers will have ideal conditions under which to study
   emissions, power production, engine wear and other issues of concern with a
   new fuel.



         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Wednesday July 3 at about 5:30pm I was stuck for about 10 -20
minutes on parliament street while riding the king streetcar. Does
anyone know what was going on as there was a line up of about 10
streetcars?


Also why do they take subways out of service at stations in the middle
of the line?

From what I heard, you were probably behind a disabled streetcar (no power)
at Parliament and Dundas.  They pushed it out of the way eventually.  Things
were complicated by a disabled subway at Woodbine at the same time which
caused a bit of a delay in getting the coupled up streetcars going as they
wanted a radio channel to do the move but were initially denied it.  With
the diversion for the Don Valley beidge construction, any problems in the
Parliament/Dundas/Broadview areas cause headaches for a few different
routes - 501, 502, 503, 504, 505 - as they are all on Dundas at some point
there.

James K.


----- Original Message -----
From: "tmcca10" <thomasjmccarthy@...>
To: <transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 12:39 AM
Subject: <Transit-Toronto> delay on king car.


> On Wednesday July 3 at about 5:30pm I was stuck for about 10 -20
> minutes on parliament street while riding the king streetcar. Does
> anyone know what was going on as there was a line up of about 10
> streetcars?
>
>
> Also why do they take subways out of service at stations in the middle
> of the line?
>
>
>
>
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> Transit Toronto Website:  http://transit.toronto.on.ca
> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank e-mail to:
>   mailto:transit-toronto-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Currently, Spadina cars run out of Russell.  However, they used to operate out
of Roncesvalles.  With this in mind, is it a good idea for the TTC to
experiment by operating the Spadina car out of both carhouses?  Would this
improve service on the line?  The distance from Russell to Spadina is longer
than from Roncesvalles.  Also, this summer would have been the perfect time to
do this, especially with the construction that is taking place around the Don
Bridge area.  When entering or leaving service, the Spadina car has divert
around the construction area by using King, Parliament, Dundas, Broadview, and
Queen or vice versa.

Michael T.

In my original message, there was a mistake in one of the sentences.  Here is
the correction:

When entering or leaving service, the Spadina car has to divert around the
construction area by using King, Parliament, Dundas, Broadview, and Queen or
vice versa.

Sorry for the mistake.

Michael T.

5 run King, had a broken rope with the pole stuck in the overhead. It took
about ten minutes to get there to pull the pole down with the retriever.
Shit happens...

GD

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Going in to service during this diversion all cars enter service via Dundas,
using the west to north curve at Dundas and Spadina. Running back to the car
house most cars go via King, but some use Queen st. Why they do that I don't
know, we just check the run guides and go where are told!
----- Original Message -----
From: <yu239137@...>
To: <transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 7:48 AM
Subject: <Transit-Toronto> 510 Spadina Streetcar


> Currently, Spadina cars run out of Russell.  However, they used to operate
out
> of Roncesvalles.  With this in mind, is it a good idea for the TTC to
> experiment by operating the Spadina car out of both carhouses?  Would this
> improve service on the line?  The distance from Russell to Spadina is
longer
> than from Roncesvalles.  Also, this summer would have been the perfect
time to
> do this, especially with the construction that is taking place around the
Don
> Bridge area.  When entering or leaving service, the Spadina car has divert
> around the construction area by using King, Parliament, Dundas, Broadview,
and
> Queen or vice versa.
>
> Michael T.
>
>
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> Transit Toronto Website:  http://transit.toronto.on.ca
> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank e-mail to:
>   mailto:transit-toronto-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Changing the carhouse will have no effect on how the Spadina line operates.
As long as each operator has sufficient time to go from one end the line to
the other, the route will operate well.

When the route was switched from Roncesvalles to Russell last year, 5 - 7
minutes was added to the run-in and run-out times.  This change relived a
lot of pressure on the maintenance staff at Ronce, as the carhouse was
overcrowded with vehicles.  The additional cost of running in and out of
service is to be more than offset but greater efficiencies at the carhouses.

Southbound 510 cars leave service via Adelaide, Charlotte and King, etc to
Russell.  Northbound cars (from Queens Quay loop or Union Station) run north
on Spadina and east on Queen.  Apparently it is easier to make the north to
east turn at Queen rather than King.

Jeffrey



>From: yu239137@...
>Reply-To: transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com
>To: transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: <Transit-Toronto> 510 Spadina Streetcar
>Date: Thu,  4 Jul 2002 07:48:58 -0400
>
>Currently, Spadina cars run out of Russell.  However, they used to operate
>out
>of Roncesvalles.  With this in mind, is it a good idea for the TTC to
>experiment by operating the Spadina car out of both carhouses?  Would this
>improve service on the line?  The distance from Russell to Spadina is
>longer
>than from Roncesvalles.  Also, this summer would have been the perfect time
>to
>do this, especially with the construction that is taking place around the
>Don
>Bridge area.  When entering or leaving service, the Spadina car has divert
>around the construction area by using King, Parliament, Dundas, Broadview,
>and
>Queen or vice versa.
>
>Michael T.
>
>
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>To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank e-mail to:
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>
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>
>




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HSR has focussed its new vehicle acquisition on its
> controversial low-floor buses, which have significantly less
capacity
> (about 75% of a regular bus) and which struggle to get up the
> escarpment (15 km/h going up the James/West 5th hill is not
uncommon).

I heard that the HSR has committed to buying no more diesel buses.
Apparently the New Flyer artics are not available as CNG's (due to
some problem with design of the bus) and they ended up deciding to
fix up the old GM artics to get a few more years use.


> Funny how Mississauga and Ottawa are going full strength on the
> artics, but TTC just gave up on them.  Guess it just goes to show
> that first impressions really do count.
>

The 1997 Mississauga low floor artics are starting to look and run
rough already.  Putting those things into use in Toronto on long,
hilly routes jammed full of passengers would likely destroy them in
less than ten years.

--- In transit-toronto@y..., "tmcca10" <thomasjmccarthy@g...> wrote:
> Is it true that they were built to double as rumways in an emergency
> or if airports were distroied?

Apparently not; this is discussed as an urban legend at
http://www.tafkac.org/politics/interstates_and_airstrips.html
and http://www.snopes.com/autos/law/airstrip.htm (the latter site,
www.snopes.com, is the definitive place to look for all those is-it-
really-true questions).

The "defence" component of the Interstate system was to speed the
deployment of equipment, materiel and troops via vehicles. (That's
why it's a HIGHWAY system. If they'd wanted runways, they would have
built an AIRPORT system. But now I'm being snarky.)

http://www.ihoz.com/interstates.html is a great site with information
on the Interstates.

Chip C
SF CA

recently, the station "colours" have all been changed to white with a "t"
inside the circle to indicate that a transfer is required to transfer
between all surface connections.
in cases where 2 subway lines connecect (eg. st. george)two circles outline
the white circle instead of the 1 circle outlining the white circle


>From: "bjhtn" <bjhtn@...>
>Reply-To: transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com
>To: transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: <Transit-Toronto> Sheppard line colours
>Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 01:25:43 -0000
>
>We all know that Sheppard will be identified on maps with a purple
>line...
>
>What about the stations?  (B/D = white, Y/U/S = red, SRT = yellow...
>Sheppard = ?)
>
>Brent
>
>
>=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
>Transit Toronto Website:  http://transit.toronto.on.ca
>To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank e-mail to:
>   mailto:transit-toronto-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




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i'm just wondering why toronto doesn't use double-ended articulated subway
cars.
when i talk to subway operators they always complain about going from the
second last car to the last car just before the terminus of the run.
if the ttc used double-ended articulated subway cars the guard would just
walk to the other end of his/her car to do the same procedure.
this design would also give more standee room because of the articulated
joint.  i got this idea from new york where they had "double articulated
cars" until they were scrapped.  if anyone has any feedback or news don't
hesitate to reply

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Is this normal for a H4 Train #5362 to be out this late at night? I cought
this train at Royal York going eastbound, i was surprised when i saw this,
or is there an event i dont know of that required extra trains to be out?


Daniel Correia
DCHosting Network Solutions
http://www.dchosting.net/
(416) 831 - 6828

Oops, #5362 is suppsed to be #5632

----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Correia" <dcorreia@...>
To: <transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2002 12:18
Subject: <Transit-Toronto> H4 Train @ 10PM Friday July 5 2002


> Is this normal for a H4 Train #5362 to be out this late at night? I cought
> this train at Royal York going eastbound, i was surprised when i saw this,
> or is there an event i dont know of that required extra trains to be out?
>
>
> Daniel Correia
> DCHosting Network Solutions
> http://www.dchosting.net/
> (416) 831 - 6828
>
>
>
>
> =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
> Transit Toronto Website:  http://transit.toronto.on.ca
> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank e-mail to:
>   mailto:transit-toronto-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

the ttc still operates H4 trains? i thought they were all retired but
retained "just in case"


>From: "Daniel Correia" <dcorreia@...>
>Reply-To: transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com
>To: <transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: <Transit-Toronto> H4 Train @ 10PM Friday July 5 2002
>Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 12:18:53 -0400
>
>Is this normal for a H4 Train #5362 to be out this late at night? I cought
>this train at Royal York going eastbound, i was surprised when i saw this,
>or is there an event i dont know of that required extra trains to be out?
>
>
>Daniel Correia
>DCHosting Network Solutions
>http://www.dchosting.net/
>(416) 831 - 6828
>
>
>
>
>=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
>Transit Toronto Website:  http://transit.toronto.on.ca
>To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank e-mail to:
>   mailto:transit-toronto-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




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First, 5362 is a H1 train, which was retired a couple of years ago.

I also rode a H4 train on the Bloor-Danforth line around 11 p.m. last night. I
caught the train at Yonge station, going westbound.  If my memory is correct,
the six H4 trains that I encountered last night were
5632,5633,5656,5657,5594,5595.

Normally around that time of day, the only train types that usually operate on
the BD line are the H6 and T1's.  However, in the past year, I have ocasionally
seen the odd H4 train on the BD line late at night.

From this, I have several questions to ask:

1. Are the H4 trains usually restricted to rush hour use only?
2. How long will the H4 trains be in service?  Does the TTC plan to retire them
or keep them just in case if some of the newer trains (ie. H5,H6,T1) break down?

Thank you.

Michael T.




Quoting Daniel Correia <dcorreia@...>:

>
>
>
>
> Is this normal for a H4 Train #5362 to be out this late at night? I
> cought this train at Royal York going eastbound, i was surprised when i saw
> this, or is there an event i dont know of that required extra trains to be
> out?
>
>
> Daniel Correia
> DCHosting Network Solutions
> <a href="http://www.dchosting.net/">http://www.dchosting.net/
> (416) 831 - 6828

>i'm just wondering why toronto doesn't use double-ended articulated subway
>cars.

Having subway cars arranged in married pairs means the trains are
effectively double ended.   Why are they not articulated?  Articulated
transit vehicles of all vaireties never seem to be as reliable as their
rigid counterparts for whatever reason.

>when i talk to subway operators they always complain about going from the
>second last car to the last car just before the terminus of the run.

The position of the guard with respect to the train is due to the optimum
vantage point - so even if the TTC had articulated cars, the guards would
still be in the same place in the train and would have to walk those 150
feet to the end of the train at the terminal.  Think of those poor NYCT
subway operators.  The drivers are drivers and the conducters are conductors
so at the end of the line the driver has to walk the full length of the
train - which can be up to 600 feet.

>if the ttc used double-ended articulated subway cars the guard would just
>walk to the other end of his/her car to do the same procedure.

The walk would be the same length, but the guard wouldn't have to open two
doors - hardly a big deal.

>this design would also give more standee room because of the articulated
>joint.  i got this idea from new york where they had "double articulated
>cars" until they were scrapped.

New York City only had a very small number of articulated units (122) called
Triplexes that were in use on the BMT lines from 1927-1965.  If you are
interested in those cars click here:
http://www.nycsubway.org/cars/bmt-d.html  They also built a few more
experimental "multisectioned" units toatalling 13 in all.  Eventually, they
settled on the standard married pair arrangement.

I also understand that the RATP (Paris Metro) also has articulated subway
cars now.  Here is an interior shot that looks through the articulartion
joint.  http://www.nycsubway.org/eu/fr/paris/line14/p14interior01.jpg
Sadly, these trains are operated without drivers or guards.

Regards

Rob

I've seen a number of H4 trains lately..

I'm guessing the TTC wants to phase them out in favour of the T1 trains?

Mike



Quoting Michael Tham <mtwizard2002@...>:

> the ttc still operates H4 trains? i thought they were all retired but
> retained "just in case"
>
>
> >From: "Daniel Correia" <dcorreia@...>
> >Reply-To: transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com
> >To: <transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: <Transit-Toronto> H4 Train @ 10PM Friday July 5 2002
> >Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 12:18:53 -0400
> >
> >Is this normal for a H4 Train #5362 to be out this late at night? I
> cought
> >this train at Royal York going eastbound, i was surprised when i saw
> this,
> >or is there an event i dont know of that required extra trains to be
> out?
> >
> >
> >Daniel Correia
> >DCHosting Network Solutions
> >http://www.dchosting.net/
> >(416) 831 - 6828
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
> >Transit Toronto Website:  http://transit.toronto.on.ca
> >To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank e-mail to:
> >   mailto:transit-toronto-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>
>
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>
> =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
> Transit Toronto Website:  http://transit.toronto.on.ca
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>
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> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

--- In transit-toronto@y..., "Michael Tham" <mtwizard2002@m...> wrote:
> recently, the station "colours" have all been changed to white with
a "t"
> inside the circle to indicate that a transfer is required to
transfer
> between all surface connections.
> in cases where 2 subway lines connecect (eg. st. george)two circles
outline
> the white circle instead of the 1 circle outlining the white circle

Can't believe I never noticed this before!  Actually, I probably did,
but didn't realize there was a difference.  Was it introduced on the
current Ride Guide (January) or before that?

I presume the changes had to do with Sheppard -- either because too
many colour combinations, or nothing went with purple, etc.

Also noticed that the legend has been moved to the bottom on the
Rapid Transit strip map, presumably in preparation for Sheppard.

Brent

--- In transit-toronto@y..., yu239137@y... wrote:
> First, 5362 is a H1 train, which was retired a couple of years ago.
>

5362 is one of the last T1 cars to arrive and therefore one of the
newest.  The numbers the H1's (and Montreal and Gloucester cars)
previously had have been re-assigned to the T1 cars.

H4 Trains are usually for Rush Hour only on the Bloor Danforth Line last
time i checked. But i caught it at 10PM which is not normal.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Tham" <mtwizard2002@...>
To: <transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2002 12:34
Subject: Fwd: <Transit-Toronto> H4 Train @ 10PM Friday July 5 2002


> the ttc still operates H4 trains? i thought they were all retired but
> retained "just in case"
>
>
> >From: "Daniel Correia" <dcorreia@...>
> >Reply-To: transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com
> >To: <transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: <Transit-Toronto> H4 Train @ 10PM Friday July 5 2002
> >Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 12:18:53 -0400
> >
> >Is this normal for a H4 Train #5362 to be out this late at night? I
cought
> >this train at Royal York going eastbound, i was surprised when i saw
this,
> >or is there an event i dont know of that required extra trains to be out?
> >
> >
> >Daniel Correia
> >DCHosting Network Solutions
> >http://www.dchosting.net/
> >(416) 831 - 6828
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
> >Transit Toronto Website:  http://transit.toronto.on.ca
> >To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank e-mail to:
> >   mailto:transit-toronto-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>
>
>
> =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
> Transit Toronto Website:  http://transit.toronto.on.ca
> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank e-mail to:
>   mailto:transit-toronto-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Yah 5362 was a typo, its supposed to be 5632 which was the same set you
encountered.
----- Original Message -----
From: <yu239137@...>
To: <transit-toronto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2002 14:13
Subject: Re: <Transit-Toronto> H4 Train @ 10PM Friday July 5 2002


> First, 5362 is a H1 train, which was retired a couple of years ago.
>
> I also rode a H4 train on the Bloor-Danforth line around 11 p.m. last
night. I
> caught the train at Yonge station, going westbound.  If my memory is
correct,
> the six H4 trains that I encountered last night were
> 5632,5633,5656,5657,5594,5595.
>
> Normally around that time of day, the only train types that usually
operate on
> the BD line are the H6 and T1's.  However, in the past year, I have
ocasionally
> seen the odd H4 train on the BD line late at night.
>
> From this, I have several questions to ask:
>
> 1. Are the H4 trains usually restricted to rush hour use only?
> 2. How long will the H4 trains be in service?  Does the TTC plan to retire
them
> or keep them just in case if some of the newer trains (ie. H5,H6,T1) break
down?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Michael T.
>
>
>
>
> Quoting Daniel Correia <dcorreia@...>:
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Is this normal for a H4 Train #5362 to be out this late at night? I
> > cought this train at Royal York going eastbound, i was surprised when i
saw
> > this, or is there an event i dont know of that required extra trains to
be
> > out?
> >
> >
> > Daniel Correia
> > DCHosting Network Solutions
> > <a href="http://www.dchosting.net/">http://www.dchosting.net/
> > (416) 831 - 6828
>
>
>
>
> =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
> Transit Toronto Website:  http://transit.toronto.on.ca
> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank e-mail to:
>   mailto:transit-toronto-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>