Tim, I just used my finger and cleaned up with a paper towle. One time while I
was out ona a cruse, I used sun tan lotion and that worked.
Ray


________________________________

From: watkins@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Tim Keefe
Sent: Thu 11/12/2009 7:12 AM
To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [watkins] Window leaks on a W29




Ray,

How do you go about this?

For example did you just rub Vaseline on the gaskets with a Q-tip or did you
take out the gaskets apply the "jelly" to all sides??

I have 6 ports on my W-27 that need the same treatment.

Thanks,

Tim Keefe (I'm a different Tim than the person that originally submitted the
question)

From: watkins@yahoogroups.com <mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com> 
[mailto:watkins@yahoogroups.com <mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf
Of
Ray Spilsbury
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:04 AM
To: watkins@yahoogroups.com <mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [watkins] Window leaks on a W29

Tim
If the gaskets are not all cracked, you can use a petrolem jelly on them. It
worker on mine
Ray Taketime 25

________________________________

From: watkins@yahoogroups.com <mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com> 
<mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com> on behalf
of Tim
Sent: Thu 11/12/2009 4:10 AM
To: watkins@yahoogroups.com <mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com> 
<mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [watkins] Window leaks on a W29

Hi folks,

I have an 89 W29 with the original cabin windows. Several months ago I cut
all the gasket material off the windows because they were shot. I then
purchased some door insulation material the type with self stick on one side
an applied it around the metal frame of the opening part of the window. It
works however the tie down dogs won't tighten down because the insulation
material is much thinner than the gasket material was. I really don't think
this is a final solution. Has anyone found a way to seal this windows
properly other than ordering new material from the manufacturer. I don't
think the gasket material can be installed with out special equipment so I
think the windows must be sent back to the factory. I don't want to do this.
Has anyone come up with another solution I can do myself.
The tie down dogs screws have frozen in the aluminum frame. Anyone know how
to loosen them. I've tried liquid wrench, but no help.

Thanks,
Tim

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.60/2496 - Release Date: 11/12/09
07:38:00

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The old engine was a 1 cylinder salt water cooled and the new is a 3 cylinder
fresh water cooled. The new engine weighs 50 lbs. less than the old one. I can't
push it hard enough to burn 1 gal. per hour. I would say between 1/2 and 3/4 at
full power. Yes I put in a larger shaft and prop and a drip less stuffing box.
The only original items in the engine compartment are the muffler and the Racor
water separator.
Jim
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: nine_lufts
   To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:52 PM
   Subject: [watkins] Re: Watkins 27 Yanmar 1GM



   Jim,
   Do you recall the differences in engine weight, fuel consumption and whether
or not a you had to change shaft size?

   Bob

   --- In watkins@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <w27sail@...> wrote:
   >
   > I replaced my YSB12G Yanmar with a Perkins M20. Big increase in power. I'm
turning a 3 blade prop. Re powering is expensive (ten years ago it cost me
$8000.00). Where are you located? I can give you prop shop info for Virginia.
Who ever you use will need your boat, engine,and reduction gear info. After all
that you may have to do a trial run and have them change the pitch to fine tune.
If you can't reach max RPM you have to little pitch and if you exceed max RPM
you have to much pitch.
   > Jim s/v Wildest Dream
   > ----- Original Message -----
   > From: brazilian_basics
   > To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
   > Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 5:12 PM
   > Subject: [watkins] Watkins 27 Yanmar 1GM
   >
   >
   >
   > Hello all! This is my first post.
   >
   > I have a 1980 Watkins 27 with the 8hp 1GM. I have had the boat for 6 years
now and the only complaint I have is that the boat is underpowered. My family
has grown, now I have a 2 year old and a 6 month old and I feel I need more
power in case I run into trouble. Has anyone upgraded a W27 from a 1GM to a 2GM?
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   > ----------------------------------------------------------
   >
   >
   >
   > No virus found in this incoming message.
   > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
   > Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.57/2492 - Release Date: 11/09/09
12:11:00
   >
   >
   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
   >






------------------------------------------------------------------------------



   No virus found in this incoming message.
   Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
   Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.59/2494 - Release Date: 11/10/09
07:38:00


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ray,

How do you go about this?

For example did you just rub Vaseline on the gaskets with a Q-tip or did you
take out the gaskets apply the "jelly" to all sides??

I have 6 ports on my W-27 that need the same treatment.



Thanks,

Tim Keefe (I'm a different Tim than the person that originally submitted the
question)



From: watkins@yahoogroups.com [mailto:watkins@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Ray Spilsbury
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:04 AM
To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [watkins] Window leaks on a W29





Tim
If the gaskets are not all cracked, you can use a petrolem jelly on them. It
worker on mine
Ray Taketime 25

________________________________

From: watkins@yahoogroups.com <mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com>  on behalf
of Tim
Sent: Thu 11/12/2009 4:10 AM
To: watkins@yahoogroups.com <mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [watkins] Window leaks on a W29

Hi folks,

I have an 89 W29 with the original cabin windows. Several months ago I cut
all the gasket material off the windows because they were shot. I then
purchased some door insulation material the type with self stick on one side
an applied it around the metal frame of the opening part of the window. It
works however the tie down dogs won't tighten down because the insulation
material is much thinner than the gasket material was. I really don't think
this is a final solution. Has anyone found a way to seal this windows
properly other than ordering new material from the manufacturer. I don't
think the gasket material can be installed with out special equipment so I
think the windows must be sent back to the factory. I don't want to do this.
Has anyone come up with another solution I can do myself.
The tie down dogs screws have frozen in the aluminum frame. Anyone know how
to loosen them. I've tried liquid wrench, but no help.

Thanks,
Tim

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.60/2496 - Release Date: 11/12/09
07:38:00



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tim
If the gaskets are not all cracked, you can use a petrolem jelly on them. It
worker on mine
Ray Taketime 25

________________________________

From: watkins@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Tim
Sent: Thu 11/12/2009 4:10 AM
To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [watkins] Window leaks on a W29




Hi folks,

I have an 89 W29 with the original cabin windows. Several months ago I cut all
the gasket material off the windows because they were shot. I then purchased
some door insulation material the type with self stick on one side an applied it
around the metal frame of the opening part of the window. It works however the
tie down dogs won't tighten down because the insulation material is much thinner
than the gasket material was. I really don't think this is a final solution. Has
anyone found a way to seal this windows properly other than ordering new
material from the manufacturer. I don't think the gasket material can be
installed with out special equipment so I think the windows must be sent back to
the factory. I don't want to do this. Has anyone come up with another solution I
can do myself.
The tie down dogs screws have frozen in the aluminum frame. Anyone know how to
loosen them. I've tried liquid wrench, but no help.

Thanks,
Tim






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi folks,

I have an 89 W29 with the original cabin windows. Several months ago I cut all
the gasket material off the windows because they were shot. I then purchased
some door insulation material the type with self stick on one side an applied it
around the metal frame of the opening part of the window. It works however the
tie down dogs won't tighten down because the insulation material is much thinner
than the gasket material was. I really don't think this is a final solution. Has
anyone found a way to seal this windows properly other than ordering new
material from the manufacturer. I don't think the gasket material can be
installed with out special equipment so I think the windows must be sent back to
the factory. I don't want to do this. Has anyone come up with another solution I
can do myself.
The tie down dogs screws have frozen in the aluminum frame. Anyone know how to
loosen them. I've tried liquid wrench, but no help.

Thanks,
Tim

RJ,
I was thinking of putting a few LED fixtures that need to be replaced in Moriah.
I am going to replace the one in the head and the V-berth. My concern is your
"wife hates them". Why is that? She does not like the way they look as far as
warmth? Has anyone used replacement bulbs? I am interested in saving power also
since when I sail at night the kids love to put lights on down below. Me I just
light the oil lamp and I am fine with that. Your feedback is appreciated. I am
making out my annual West Marine Christmas list and I was going to put the LED
lights on the list.
Regards,
matt
Moriah W25 1987

-----Original Message-----
From: RJ Woodward <rjwoodward@...>
To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, Nov 11, 2009 4:49 pm
Subject: FW: [SPAM] Fw: [watkins] Re: cabin lights






One way I hope to save some power (not $) is switching to LED bulbs. They
are not for everyone. My wife hates them :-)

http://www.sailorsams.com/mall/imtra-bulbs-b15d-LED-incnav.asp

Thanks,

RJ Woodward

_____

From: RJ Woodward [mailto:rjwoodward@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 3:29 PM
To: 'hugh kominars'
Subject: RE: [SPAM] Fw: [watkins] Re: cabin lights

Hello Hugh,

Good luck with the new job.. I still can't find a tumbler that fits the
bill. To match the original shade I need an acrylic tube/tumbler around
4.5" x 2.5" with straight sides and frosted plastic. Not finding any??? If
you could send me your three best lights I'd appreciate it. Let me know how
I can reimburse you for the cost.

Thanks,

RJ Woodward

_____

From: hugh kominars [mailto:hughmkominars@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:08 AM
To: rjwoodward@...
Subject: [watkins] Re: cabin lights

Hello RJ,

I'm sorry for not getting back to you earlier - been very hectic - started a
new job.... I wanted to let you know that I have a total of 6 shades with
fixtures. 4 are in good shape, 1 may have a slight crack and 1 has a longer
crack. please let me know if you decide you want them. the tumbler idea
sound pretty cool.

----- Forwarded Message ----
From: RJ Woodward <rjwoodward@...>
To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, November 9, 2009 7:05:38 AM
Subject: RE: [watkins] Re: cabin lights

Thanks Bryan,

I started searching the internet last night for frosted acrylic tumblers and
found thousands. I just need to find the right dimension; 4.5" x 2.5" or
close and I'll have beautiful new shades!

RJ

From: watkins@yahoogroups .com <mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:watkins@yahoogroups .com <mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of
rick_rew
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 5:46 AM
To: watkins@yahoogroups .com <mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [watkins] Re: cabin lights

This is the winning idea! I knew there was a low cost way to do this. My
shades are ugly too. Think I'll keep my eyes open for appropriate sized,
color drinking cups.

Rick

--- In watkins@yahoogroups <mailto:watkins% 40yahoogroups. com> .com,
capbrian
<capbrian@.. .> wrote:
>
>
> Find cheap plastic drinking glasses in a variety of clear/semi/
translucent types with infinite range of colors - warm yellow works well.
and some have nautical theme patterns , Saw off the bottom of the glass ,
drill holes for the cross bar, .........
>
> Cost ? less than $1 each
>
> Bryan
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Rick,
I went to the web and did most of my research on the folding props and looked at
what lots of folks had to say. About 5 years ago I had attended Sail Expo when
it was at Atlantic city and went to two seminars on props. One was CDI and the
other was Max Prop. The CDI folks had some great info with regard to increase
the diameter over pitch. The issue becomes clearance. The boat yard where I
store Moriah for the winter was also helpful since they have installed many
props on boats. I went with Flex-o-Fold. Feedback from many of the members of
our active racing club also played into my choice. You will need to provide info
to them with regard to the shaft diameter, engine HP, boat info length,
displacement and transmission ratio. As I found out many Watkins boats can have
the same engine but different transmission rations. The webmaster at a great
sister site ( http://www.watkinsowners.com ) Was able to point out to me that
Watkins used what was available at the time which means ratios of transmissions
differ from engine to engine in the same models. Other resources that I found
useful articles about folding props showed uo years ago in Practical Sailor and
Sail magazine. If you would like to contact me please feel free and we can take
this discussion off line. mbd54@...

Regards,
Matt
Moriah W25 1987


-----Original Message-----
From: brazilian_basics <brandon@...>
To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, Nov 10, 2009 11:08 am
Subject: [watkins] Re: Watkins 27 Yanmar 1GM






Thanks, I appreciate the feedback. I was told that the Yanmar 1GM and 2 GM sit
on the same motor mounts and it is a fairly easy swap...

I am going to look into upgrading the prop. With 2 youngin's, the budget is
tight these days, so this may be the best option...You have anyone you would
recommend that knows about sailboat props?

--- In watkins@yahoogroups.com, "rick_rew" <rick_rew@...> wrote:
>
> Hello, and welcome aboard.
>
> I repowered from a 2qm15 - old 2-cyl raw water cooled. To a 2gm20f. Honestly,
the power is about the same for me, but of course the engine is new and will
start when cold:-).
>
> It is certainly possible to repower. You may need to modify your engine beds.
Plan on spending about $10k to purchase and install, unless you install yourself
(not an easy job).
>
> Otherwise, you might look into a different prop to improve your performance. I
cannot recommend a prop, but there are several prop makers with websites that
will assist you in selecting a better alternative for you.
>
> Good luck, and let us know how it turns out for you. Others on the msg board
here will have other suggestions - probably more helpful than mine!
>
> Rick
>
> --- In watkins@yahoogroups.com, "brazilian_basics" <brandon@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello all! This is my first post.
> >
> > I have a 1980 Watkins 27 with the 8hp 1GM. I have had the boat for 6 years
now and the only complaint I have is that the boat is underpowered. My family
has grown, now I have a 2 year old and a 6 month old and I feel I need more
power in case I run into trouble. Has anyone upgraded a W27 from a 1GM to a 2GM?
> >
>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes it was for a 1GM 9HP
Regards,
Matt
Moriah W25 1987


-----Original Message-----
From: brazilian_basics <brandon@...>
To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, Nov 10, 2009 5:13 pm
Subject: [watkins] Re: Watkins 27 Yanmar 1GM






Was this for a Yanmar 1GM?

--- In watkins@yahoogroups.com, mbd54@... wrote:
>
>
> I have posted that I changed my fixed two blade prop for the Flex-o-Fold two
blade and this made a difference under power. The folks from CDI have a prop
they call the "Extendo" which allows you to increase prop diameter by an inch.
>
> I saw that there is a response that did a good job explaining in a nut shell a
recap of prop pitch. My 25 was under pitched. The inexpensive thing to do is
look at the porp and make sure you have a correct pitch installed before
spending thousands on repowering.
>
> My two cents.
>
> Regards,
> Matt
> Moriah, W25 1987
>
> PS. Conrad how are you doing?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rick_rew <rick_rew@...>
> To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tue, Nov 10, 2009 5:57 am
> Subject: [watkins] Re: Watkins 27 Yanmar 1GM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hello, and welcome aboard.
>
> I repowered from a 2qm15 - old 2-cyl raw water cooled. To a 2gm20f. Honestly,
the power is about the same for me, but of course the engine is new and will
start when cold:-).
>
> It is certainly possible to repower. You may need to modify your engine beds.
Plan on spending about $10k to purchase and install, unless you install yourself
(not an easy job).
>
> Otherwise, you might look into a different prop to improve your performance. I
cannot recommend a prop, but there are several prop makers with websites that
will assist you in selecting a better alternative for you.
>
> Good luck, and let us know how it turns out for you. Others on the msg board
here will have other suggestions - probably more helpful than mine!
>
> Rick
>
> --- In watkins@yahoogroups.com, "brazilian_basics" <brandon@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello all! This is my first post.
> >
> > I have a 1980 Watkins 27 with the 8hp 1GM. I have had the boat for 6 years
now and the only complaint I have is that the boat is underpowered. My family
has grown, now I have a 2 year old and a 6 month old and I feel I need more
power in case I run into trouble. Has anyone upgraded a W27 from a 1GM to a 2GM?
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The way I hope to save both money and power is to source the fixtures and lights
separately. I suspect the repackaging and marketing is prime for reseller
profits while this product is still looked upon as newish.

Bob

--- In watkins@yahoogroups.com, "RJ Woodward" <rjwoodward@...> wrote:
>
> One way I hope to save some power (not $) is switching to LED bulbs.  They
> are not for everyone.  My wife hates them :-)
>
>
>
> http://www.sailorsams.com/mall/imtra-bulbs-b15d-LED-incnav.asp
>
> Thanks,
>
> RJ Woodward
>
>   _____
>
> From: RJ Woodward [mailto:rjwoodward@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 3:29 PM
> To: 'hugh kominars'
> Subject: RE: [SPAM] Fw: [watkins] Re: cabin lights
>
>
>
> Hello Hugh,
>
>
>
> Good luck with the new job..  I still can't find a tumbler that fits the
> bill.  To match the original shade I need an acrylic tube/tumbler around
> 4.5" x 2.5" with straight sides and frosted plastic.  Not finding any???  If
> you could send me your three best lights I'd appreciate it.  Let me know how
> I can reimburse you for the cost.
>
> Thanks,
>
> RJ Woodward
>
>   _____
>
> From: hugh kominars [mailto:hughmkominars@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:08 AM
> To: rjwoodward@...
> Subject: [watkins] Re: cabin lights
>
>
>
> Hello RJ,
>
>
>
> I'm sorry for not getting back to you earlier - been very hectic - started a
> new job....  I wanted to let you know that I have a total of 6 shades with
> fixtures.  4 are in good shape, 1 may have a slight crack and 1 has a longer
> crack.  please let me know if you decide you want them.  the tumbler idea
> sound pretty cool.
>
>
>
> ----- Forwarded Message ----
> From: RJ Woodward <rjwoodward@...>
> To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, November 9, 2009 7:05:38 AM
> Subject: RE: [watkins] Re: cabin lights
>
>
>
> Thanks Bryan,
>
> I started searching the internet last night for frosted acrylic tumblers and
> found thousands. I just need to find the right dimension; 4.5" x 2.5" or
> close and I'll have beautiful new shades!
>
> RJ
>
> From: watkins@yahoogroups .com <mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:watkins@yahoogroups .com <mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf Of
> rick_rew
> Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 5:46 AM
> To: watkins@yahoogroups .com <mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [watkins] Re: cabin lights
>
> This is the winning idea! I knew there was a low cost way to do this. My
> shades are ugly too. Think I'll keep my eyes open for appropriate sized,
> color drinking cups.
>
> Rick
>
> --- In watkins@yahoogroups <mailto:watkins% 40yahoogroups. com> .com,
> capbrian
> <capbrian@ .> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Find cheap plastic drinking glasses in a variety of clear/semi/
> translucent types with infinite range of colors - warm yellow works well.
> and some have nautical theme patterns , Saw off the bottom of the glass ,
> drill holes for the cross bar, .........
> >
> > Cost ? less than $1 each
> >
> > Bryan
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

One way I hope to save some power (not $) is switching to LED bulbs.  They
are not for everyone.  My wife hates them :-)



http://www.sailorsams.com/mall/imtra-bulbs-b15d-LED-incnav.asp

Thanks,

RJ Woodward

   _____

From: RJ Woodward [mailto:rjwoodward@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 3:29 PM
To: 'hugh kominars'
Subject: RE: [SPAM] Fw: [watkins] Re: cabin lights



Hello Hugh,



Good luck with the new job..  I still can't find a tumbler that fits the
bill.  To match the original shade I need an acrylic tube/tumbler around
4.5" x 2.5" with straight sides and frosted plastic.  Not finding any???  If
you could send me your three best lights I'd appreciate it.  Let me know how
I can reimburse you for the cost.

Thanks,

RJ Woodward

   _____

From: hugh kominars [mailto:hughmkominars@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:08 AM
To: rjwoodward@...
Subject: [watkins] Re: cabin lights



Hello RJ,



I'm sorry for not getting back to you earlier - been very hectic - started a
new job....  I wanted to let you know that I have a total of 6 shades with
fixtures.  4 are in good shape, 1 may have a slight crack and 1 has a longer
crack.  please let me know if you decide you want them.  the tumbler idea
sound pretty cool.



----- Forwarded Message ----
From: RJ Woodward <rjwoodward@...>
To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, November 9, 2009 7:05:38 AM
Subject: RE: [watkins] Re: cabin lights



Thanks Bryan,

I started searching the internet last night for frosted acrylic tumblers and
found thousands. I just need to find the right dimension; 4.5" x 2.5" or
close and I'll have beautiful new shades!

RJ

From: watkins@yahoogroups .com <mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:watkins@yahoogroups .com <mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of
rick_rew
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 5:46 AM
To: watkins@yahoogroups .com <mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [watkins] Re: cabin lights

This is the winning idea! I knew there was a low cost way to do this. My
shades are ugly too. Think I'll keep my eyes open for appropriate sized,
color drinking cups.

Rick

--- In watkins@yahoogroups <mailto:watkins% 40yahoogroups. com> .com,
capbrian
<capbrian@.. .> wrote:
>
>
> Find cheap plastic drinking glasses in a variety of clear/semi/
translucent types with infinite range of colors - warm yellow works well.
and some have nautical theme patterns , Saw off the bottom of the glass ,
drill holes for the cross bar, .........
>
> Cost ? less than $1 each
>
> Bryan
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks, I appreciate the feedback. I was told that the Yanmar 1GM and 2 GM sit
on the same motor mounts and it is a fairly easy swap...

I am going to look into upgrading the prop. With 2 youngin's, the budget is
tight these days, so this may be the best option...You have anyone you would
recommend that knows about sailboat props?

--- In watkins@yahoogroups.com, "rick_rew" <rick_rew@...> wrote:
>
> Hello, and welcome aboard.
>
> I repowered from a 2qm15 - old 2-cyl raw water cooled.  To a 2gm20f. 
Honestly, the power is about the same for me, but of course the engine is new
and will start when cold:-).
>
> It is certainly possible to repower.  You may need to modify your engine beds.
Plan on spending about $10k to purchase and install, unless you install yourself
(not an easy job).
>
> Otherwise, you might look into a different prop to improve your performance. 
I cannot recommend a prop, but there are several prop makers with websites that
will assist you in selecting a better alternative for you.
>
> Good luck, and let us know how it turns out for you.  Others on the msg board
here will have other suggestions - probably more helpful than mine!
>
> Rick
>
> --- In watkins@yahoogroups.com, "brazilian_basics" <brandon@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello all! This is my first post.
> >
> > I have a 1980 Watkins 27 with the 8hp 1GM. I have had the boat for 6 years
now and the only complaint I have is that the boat is underpowered. My family
has grown, now I have a 2 year old and a 6 month old and I feel I need more
power in case I run into trouble. Has anyone upgraded a W27 from a 1GM to a 2GM?
> >
>

Was this for a Yanmar 1GM?

--- In watkins@yahoogroups.com, mbd54@... wrote:
>
>
> I have posted that I changed my fixed two blade prop for the Flex-o-Fold two
blade and this made a difference under power. The folks from CDI have a prop
they call the "Extendo" which allows you to increase prop diameter by an inch.
>
> I saw that there is a response that did a good job explaining in a nut shell a
recap of prop pitch. My 25 was under pitched. The inexpensive thing to do is
look at the porp and make sure you have a correct pitch installed before
spending thousands on repowering.
>
> My two cents.
>
> Regards,
> Matt
> Moriah, W25 1987
>
> PS. Conrad how are you doing?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rick_rew <rick_rew@...>
> To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tue, Nov 10, 2009 5:57 am
> Subject: [watkins] Re: Watkins 27 Yanmar 1GM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hello, and welcome aboard.
>
> I repowered from a 2qm15 - old 2-cyl raw water cooled. To a 2gm20f. Honestly,
the power is about the same for me, but of course the engine is new and will
start when cold:-).
>
> It is certainly possible to repower. You may need to modify your engine beds.
Plan on spending about $10k to purchase and install, unless you install yourself
(not an easy job).
>
> Otherwise, you might look into a different prop to improve your performance. I
cannot recommend a prop, but there are several prop makers with websites that
will assist you in selecting a better alternative for you.
>
> Good luck, and let us know how it turns out for you. Others on the msg board
here will have other suggestions - probably more helpful than mine!
>
> Rick
>
> --- In watkins@yahoogroups.com, "brazilian_basics" <brandon@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello all! This is my first post.
> >
> > I have a 1980 Watkins 27 with the 8hp 1GM. I have had the boat for 6 years
now and the only complaint I have is that the boat is underpowered. My family
has grown, now I have a 2 year old and a 6 month old and I feel I need more
power in case I run into trouble. Has anyone upgraded a W27 from a 1GM to a 2GM?
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I have posted that I changed my fixed two blade prop for the Flex-o-Fold two
blade and this made a difference under power. The folks from CDI have a prop
they call the "Extendo" which allows you to increase prop diameter by an inch.

I saw that there is a response that did a good job explaining in a nut shell a
recap of prop pitch. My 25 was under pitched. The inexpensive thing to do is
look at the porp and make sure you have a correct pitch installed before
spending thousands on repowering.

My two cents.

Regards,
Matt
Moriah, W25 1987

PS. Conrad how are you doing?


-----Original Message-----
From: rick_rew <rick_rew@...>
To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, Nov 10, 2009 5:57 am
Subject: [watkins] Re: Watkins 27 Yanmar 1GM






Hello, and welcome aboard.

I repowered from a 2qm15 - old 2-cyl raw water cooled. To a 2gm20f. Honestly,
the power is about the same for me, but of course the engine is new and will
start when cold:-).

It is certainly possible to repower. You may need to modify your engine beds.
Plan on spending about $10k to purchase and install, unless you install yourself
(not an easy job).

Otherwise, you might look into a different prop to improve your performance. I
cannot recommend a prop, but there are several prop makers with websites that
will assist you in selecting a better alternative for you.

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out for you. Others on the msg board
here will have other suggestions - probably more helpful than mine!

Rick

--- In watkins@yahoogroups.com, "brazilian_basics" <brandon@...> wrote:
>
> Hello all! This is my first post.
>
> I have a 1980 Watkins 27 with the 8hp 1GM. I have had the boat for 6 years now
and the only complaint I have is that the boat is underpowered. My family has
grown, now I have a 2 year old and a 6 month old and I feel I need more power in
case I run into trouble. Has anyone upgraded a W27 from a 1GM to a 2GM?
>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jim,
Do you recall the differences in engine weight, fuel consumption and whether or
not a you had to change shaft size?

Bob

--- In watkins@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <w27sail@...> wrote:
>
> I replaced my YSB12G Yanmar with a Perkins M20. Big increase in power. I'm
turning a 3 blade prop. Re powering is expensive (ten years ago it cost me
$8000.00). Where are you located? I can give you prop shop info for Virginia.
Who ever you use will need your boat, engine,and reduction gear info. After all
that you may have to do a trial run and have them change the pitch to fine tune.
If you can't reach max RPM you have to little pitch and if you exceed max RPM
you have to much pitch.
> Jim s/v Wildest Dream
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: brazilian_basics
>   To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 5:12 PM
>   Subject: [watkins] Watkins 27 Yanmar 1GM
>
>
>
>   Hello all! This is my first post.
>
>   I have a 1980 Watkins 27 with the 8hp 1GM. I have had the boat for 6 years
now and the only complaint I have is that the boat is underpowered. My family
has grown, now I have a 2 year old and a 6 month old and I feel I need more
power in case I run into trouble. Has anyone upgraded a W27 from a 1GM to a 2GM?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>   No virus found in this incoming message.
>   Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>   Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.57/2492 - Release Date: 11/09/09
12:11:00
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I replaced my YSB12G Yanmar with a Perkins M20. Big increase in power. I'm
turning a 3 blade prop. Re powering is expensive (ten years ago it cost me
$8000.00). Where are you located? I can give you prop shop info for Virginia.
Who ever you use will need your boat, engine,and reduction gear info. After all
that you may have to do a trial run and have them change the pitch to fine tune.
If you can't reach max RPM you have to little pitch and if you exceed max RPM
you have to much pitch.
Jim s/v Wildest Dream
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: brazilian_basics
   To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 5:12 PM
   Subject: [watkins] Watkins 27 Yanmar 1GM



   Hello all! This is my first post.

   I have a 1980 Watkins 27 with the 8hp 1GM. I have had the boat for 6 years now
and the only complaint I have is that the boat is underpowered. My family has
grown, now I have a 2 year old and a 6 month old and I feel I need more power in
case I run into trouble. Has anyone upgraded a W27 from a 1GM to a 2GM?






------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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   Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
   Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.57/2492 - Release Date: 11/09/09
12:11:00


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Been there done that. The only time I have had any engine issues is during
very rough weather when all the old gunk in the bottom of the tank gets
stirred up and sucked into the filter. It is unnerving to the rest of the
crew when you have one of them steer while you change filters and re-prime
the fuel system. I plan to clean the tank this year as well. If a cleaning
every 5 years resolves the problem I think I can keep up with that.



Kevin



~~_/) ~~









From: watkins@yahoogroups.com [mailto:watkins@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
John Myers
Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 10:31 AM
To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [watkins] C.A.V. sediment fuel filter





All,

Additional note about tank cleaning: I mentioned that I drained and
replaced the fuel in my tank every 3-5 years previously. I live in Indiana
and sail predominately in lakes in the States of Ohio, Michigan and Ontario,
Canada. The point being that the water temperature and air temperature are
relatively low. I have a friend who had a Watkins 25 in Florida which he
used in the winter and left on a trailer in the summer (worst possible
combination). He had so many fuel problems, he eventually gave up and
eliminated the tank completely and used two 3 gallon outboard motor portable
tanks. Thus he could change on the fly and always new he had fresh fuel
which he purchased from a gas station and NOT the marina.

The take away then is that how often you need to drain, clean tanks and
filters is dependent on use, average air temperature and humidity. The rate
of bio-growth and chemical reactions in general is temperature dependent and
also moisture dependent. Hot humid climate is much worse than dry cool
climate.

God's Speed,

John Myers

S/V Y KNOT 1986 W25 #68

_____

From: watkins@yahoogroups.com <mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:watkins@yahoogroups.com <mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of
john herraghty
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 6:05 PM
To: watkins@yahoogroups.com <mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [watkins] C.A.V. sediment fuel filter

Now that's a good idea. I live in fear, not of running out of diesel, but
of getting down to the gunky stuff and clogging filters when least expecting
it. Or rough waters stirring up the tank and pushing the gunk into the fuel
system.

john.

--- On Thu, 11/5/09, Jim <w27sail@verizon. <mailto:w27sail%40verizon.net>
net> wrote:

From: Jim <w27sail@verizon. <mailto:w27sail%40verizon.net> net>
Subject: Re: [watkins] C.A.V. sediment fuel filter
To: watkins@yahoogroups <mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com> .com
Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 2:21 PM

John, I think I'm going to start draining my tank every 5 years and starting
with fresh fuel. I hauled out last year next to a sailor who works for
Caterpillar and does that with a wet vac used only for cleaning the fuel
tank.

Jim

----- Original Message -----

From: John Myers

To: watkins@yahoogroups .com

Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 9:45 PM

Subject: RE: [watkins] C.A.V. sediment fuel filter

I have kept detailed records of my fuel additions over my 13+ years of

ownership and after almost 500 hours of engine run time the 1GM10 has

consumed just slightly over one gallon per 7 hours of run time. Obviously

idle is less and full throttle is more but that is the long term average.

Every 5 years or so I drain the tank and start fresh. This is the only

vehicle I have ever owned that I had to throw away fuel because it went

stale before I could use it up. I put about 40 hours on the engine each

year.

John Myers

_____

From: watkins@yahoogroups .com [mailto:watkins@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf
Of

RJ Woodward

Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 9:35 PM

To: watkins@yahoogroups .com

Subject: RE: [watkins] C.A.V. sediment fuel filter

John,

What fuel GPH for the 1GM10? I don't see it published any where in the

manual. It just says .3L/min @1000RPM.

Thanks,

RJ Woodward

_____

From: watkins@yahoogroups <mailto:watkins% 40yahoogroups. com> .com

[mailto:watkins@ yahoogroups <mailto:watkins% 40yahoogroups. com> .com] On

Behalf Of

John Myers

Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 9:39 AM

To: watkins@yahoogroups <mailto:watkins% 40yahoogroups. com> .com

Subject: RE: [watkins] C.A.V. sediment fuel filter

Roy,

I think I had the same unit on my 1986 W25. The unit is just what it says

it is. It is for sediment that settles out to the bottom. It has no filter

element in it.

I replaced mine with a spin on Racor unit that fit in the same space. No

problems after about 6 years of use and one filter change at the 3 year

mark.

See separate email for comments from Paul about spin-on versus internal

elements.

Your old system was working if your engine is running and it did trap some

goo.

The issue with a filter is that you now have to choose a filtration particle

size.

If you choose to small, your filter will plug up in the most inopportune

places.

Remember that your engine has a filter on it. The purpose of the pre or

secondary filter is to separate out the "Big stuff" .

John Myers

S/V Y KNOT 1986 W25

_____

From: watkins@yahoogroups <mailto:watkins% 40yahoogroups. com> .com

[mailto:watkins@ yahoogroups <mailto:watkins% 40yahoogroups. com> .com] On

Behalf Of

papdiddy

Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 9:54 PM

To: watkins@yahoogroups <mailto:watkins% 40yahoogroups. com> .com

Subject: [watkins] C.A.V. sediment fuel filter

Hello,

Does anyone have any info on a C.A.V. type sediment fuel filter? I opened

mine up tonight to discover no element, just black goo. Normal, or is the

element missing? No problems with the engine this summer barring a little

black smoke. Anyone ever replace a C.A.V. with a RACOR? Any advantage in

doing so? Thanks in advance.

Roy

82'W27

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 8.5.424 / Virus Database: 270.14.47/2478 - Release Date: 11/03/09
07:36:00

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello, and welcome aboard.

I repowered from a 2qm15 - old 2-cyl raw water cooled.  To a 2gm20f.  Honestly,
the power is about the same for me, but of course the engine is new and will
start when cold:-).

It is certainly possible to repower.  You may need to modify your engine beds. 
Plan on spending about $10k to purchase and install, unless you install yourself
(not an easy job).

Otherwise, you might look into a different prop to improve your performance.  I
cannot recommend a prop, but there are several prop makers with websites that
will assist you in selecting a better alternative for you.

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out for you.  Others on the msg board
here will have other suggestions - probably more helpful than mine!

Rick

--- In watkins@yahoogroups.com, "brazilian_basics" <brandon@...> wrote:
>
> Hello all! This is my first post.
>
> I have a 1980 Watkins 27 with the 8hp 1GM. I have had the boat for 6 years now
and the only complaint I have is that the boat is underpowered. My family has
grown, now I have a 2 year old and a 6 month old and I feel I need more power in
case I run into trouble. Has anyone upgraded a W27 from a 1GM to a 2GM?
>

Hello all! This is my first post.

I have a 1980 Watkins 27 with the 8hp 1GM. I have had the boat for 6 years now
and the only complaint I have is that the boat is underpowered. My family has
grown, now I have a 2 year old and a 6 month old and I feel I need more power in
case I run into trouble. Has anyone upgraded a W27 from a 1GM to a 2GM?

Thanks John.  It is interesting to see how other sailors manage the power
equation.  Very thoughtful management on your part.

Rick

--- In watkins@yahoogroups.com, "John Myers" <jdmyers@...> wrote:
>
> Rick,
>
> You ask about what charging system I have.  I just installed a heavy duty
> alternator this fall on the engine.  I did this not so much to charge the
> batteries but to allow me to run my air conditioner longer by using a
> combination batteries and engine.  This is just for emergencies when during
> the summer there is the occasional weekend that it is too hot to sleep.  I
> run the system for two hours between about 9PM and 11PM which cools down the
> boat enough to sleep.   Besides the engine which I do not run just for
> charging, I have a 35 watt solar panel.  The panel was sized to fit the
> available space I had on the rear railing between the center mounted ladder
> and the edge of the boat.  The other side of the rear railing is reserved
> for my dinghy outboard.  To run the refrigeration full time it would take at
> least 100 and probably closer to 200 watts of solar power.  My dock where I
> keep my boat when not cruising has no shore power.  So the 35 watt is enough
> to recharge the batteries during the week from a weekend of use.  I
> currently use two low drop diodes to allow charging of both batteries
> independently.  For some reason the larger deep cycle battery will boil out
> enough battery acid in 3 months to need topped up.  I replaced the battery
> under warranty and the new one had the same problem.  Again, batteries do
> not like to share power, going out or in.  The smaller battery is not
> affected as much.  I plan to purchase a solar power regulator for each
> battery and install next summer.
>
> Lou Spagna, another W25 owner, has two 100 Watt solar panels permanently
> mounted above his bimini.
>
> I do not leave my bimini up all the time so this does not work for me.
>
>
>
> Everything is a compromise never is this more apparent as with solar and
> battery storage systems.
>
> To live "disconnected from the grid" in the same way that you do at home
> would require more batteries and solar panels than the boat would hold.
>
> John Myers
>
>   _____
>
> From: watkins@yahoogroups.com [mailto:watkins@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> rick_rew
> Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 10:10 PM
> To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [watkins] Re: Watts per $ - engine, wind, solar
>
>
>
>
>
> John,
>
> That is great information - and a great method for getting the most out of
> your refrigeration - the block of ice is a great idea.
>
> As I spoke with my wife today about the refrig costs, she was astonished.
> Had no idea that the cost could involve so many systemic, costly changes in
> the boat. At that point, ice looked a lot more attractive to her than the
> $3k-$5k worth of electrical upgrades for refrigeration. She thinks we can
> buy a lot of ice for $5k, and I tend to agree! Glad she's a bit flexible
> about the cooling thing, anyway.
>
> I like the way you calculate the cost also. Efficiencies of volume and scale
> really matter with electricity generation, apparently. There is no way we
> can generate power with the efficiency of the power company.
>
> So... I'm a bit unclear about your power system - you have a 2-bank system,
> with just 2 batteries? And it sounds like you use a block of ice like a
> hold-over plate, and use it to bridge between the times when you run the
> fridge.
>
> How does your charging system work out, then? Do you also have solar, or
> just rely on engine charging?
>
> The other thing that bothers me a bit about having refrigeration is the fact
> that you have to be there to facilitate battery charging - unless you can
> completely recharge with solar and wind. That keeps you pretty much chained
> to the boat. The cool prospect about cruising is the exotic places it can
> take you. When you get there, you might want to leave the boat for 3-5 days
> and explore. Not possible if you have to baby sit your refrigerator.
>
> Rick
>
> --- In watkins@yahoogroups <mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com> .com, "John
> Myers" <jdmyers@> wrote:
> >
> > My Two Cents worth:
> >
> > My wife Cindi and I cruise for two weeks every summer somewhere. We often
> > spend up to 4 days at a time away from a dock. Typically we want groceries
> > or the head gets full or we get tired of nature and need some civilization
> > about every 4th or 5th day. I have refrigeration which came with the boat.
> > Rick's estimate of 100 amp hours per day is pretty close. Here is what we
> > do. We run the refrigerator all the time the engine is running. We also
> > run the refrigerator a few hours a day if we did not motor any where. To
> > supplement the refrigeration we put a 20 Lb. Ice block in the bottom of
> the
> > box just before leaving port. We usually have ice left after 4 days when
> we
> > return to port. The 20 Lb. block of ice has the ability to absorb 44
> > Btu/Lb. or 2,880 Btu. A refrigeration unit with a SEER of 5 can generate
> > 5,000 BTU using 1 Kilowatt of power. The point being that ice is about ½
> > the weigh of an equivalent battery in energy capacity.
> >
> >
> >
> > My last job was working for an automotive supplier of electronics for
> hybrid
> > vehicles. Here are some of the things I learned.
> >
> > You cannot parallel two identical batteries. No two batteries are exactly
> > alike. If you put two batteries in parallel and put an ampere meter
> between
> > them, one will start discharging and the other charging. Thus the only
> time
> > you can have your Master Switch set to all is when the engine is running.
> > Hybrid electric cars have 300 to 450 single cell batteries, packaged up
> like
> > "D" cell flash light batteries, all in series. The result is 400-600 volt
> > system. This is why golf carts run on 24 or 48 volts using 6 volt
> batteries
> > all in series.
> >
> > The take away here is that if you want a large battery bank you will have
> to
> > change to a 24 or 48 volt house system and then use 6 volt batteries. This
> > is a very big Endeavour!
> >
> >
> >
> > Rather than talk in ampere hours I prefer watts and kilowatts. It is often
> > hard for folks to warp their mind around battery capacity. Batteries are
> > big and heavy but contain very little power. The very large size deep
> cycle
> > battery for a boat contains about 1 kilowatt if fully discharged (bad
> idea).
> > The typical deep cycle battery for marine use has about 0.8 Kilowatts. I
> > have one of each of these on my boat. Since batteries are to be cycled 50%
> > or less, the net result is I have .9 kilowatts of power available. My
> > utility sells me electricity at the rate of $0.11 per kilowatt. Thus my
> > batteries contain ALMOST 10 cents worth of electricity if fully discharged
> > but less than 5 cents worth of electricity if only 50% discharged. Think
> of
> > your home electric bill last month. Now calculate how long it would take
> > you to use 5 cents worth! Do you see the problem?
> >
> >
> >
> > I prefer conservation and generation to storage for the obvious reasons.
> > You could spend a lot on insulation and high efficiency stuff and still be
> > cheaper than a large battery bank. Similarly generation is expensive but
> in
> > any form it should not need to be replaced in 2-5 years like batteries!
> >
> >
> >
> > FYI, The price of Solar cells is projected to drop in half during the next
> > two years.
> >
> >
> >
> > John Myers
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: watkins@yahoogroups <mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com> .com
> [mailto:watkins@yahoogroups <mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com> .com] On
> Behalf Of
> > rick_rew
> > Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 11:18 AM
> > To: watkins@yahoogroups <mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com> .com
> > Subject: [watkins] Re: Watts per $ - engine, wind, solar
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Bob,
> >
> > I think the choice must begin with your assessment of how much power you
> > need to generate, what region you will be using it.
> >
> > Here's an example: Rew and I are thinking of casting off when I retire,
> but
> > we will do it in our w27, at first anyway. What are the conveniences we
> need
> > power for? Rew cannot live without refrigeration - this is the single
> > biggest power drain we will have. I think one of the new HF radar
> > installations would be good also - not a very power intensive
> installation,
> > though. So, with lights, auto pilot, refrigeration, radio(s), and radar -
> > probably about 100 amp hours useage each day to replace. Since we don't
> want
> > to be stuck charging every day, we want to build in extra capacity. So, we
> > figure about a 500 AH battery bank (minimum 200 AH for daily capacity,
> since
> > discharge below 50 % damages batteries), plus several days of reserve.
> >
> > Recharging 250 AH (half of 500 - not discharging below 50 %) will require
> a
> > combination of solar, wind, engine alternator. And for times with no
> wind/no
> > sun, we will also carry a Honda 1000 or 2000 generator. I don't expect
> > either solar or wind to completely replace all our AH as needed - I think
> we
> > will consistently undercharge the bank, and significantly shorten the life
> > of batteries. All this becomes very expensive - requires monitoring,
> 3-stage
> > voltage regulator, high-output alternator, plus obtaining wind and solar
> > generators and expanding battery bank.
> >
> > Charging batteries with only the engine alternator can mean long daily
> > periods of running the engine - not really a good idea for diesels. It is
> > okay if you are motoring for several hours every day, but simply running
> > them under little load but alternator is not a good idea, resulting in
> > carbon build-up, and shortened life. So, the cost of generating power this
> > way should also include engine wear/replacement somewhere in the equation.
> >
> > I think if it were me alone, or my choice alone, I would forego
> > refrigeration - it really drives up the cost and complexity - but I don't
> > want to go without my wife :-) And, the point she makes is for food safety
> -
> > refrigerator items really need consistent, cold temps (not ice) to keep
> food
> > edible and safe to eat, and I guess she's right on that score. Unless we
> > WANT to learn how to eat without refrigeration, we'd better install it
> when
> > we go.
> >
> > I don't really think I answered many questions, Bob - maybe because the
> > answers aren't that cut and dried. But this gives you a feel for my own
> > struggles with answering the power generation questions.
> >
> > I would read all of the Sailnet.com articles by Don Casey about this. He
> has
> > also published several books that are helpful in working this out.
> >
> > Rick
> >
> > --- In watkins@yahoogroups <mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com> .com,
> > "nine_lufts" <nine_lufts@> wrote:
> > >
> > > This is something I probably wont make a decision on until next summer
> or
> > so, but it keeps eating at the dieing gray matter, and I've not yet
> wrapped
> > the still-living matter around it.
> > >
> > > Bang for the buck with inherent compromises...
> > >
> > > A wind genny with gear is about a grand. Solar ranges from usueless to
> > unlimited, if you're willing to look like a billboard. The cost of these
> > would buy a helluvalot of deisel.
> > >
> > > I understand the engine noise issue vs quiet bliss.
> > >
> > > Does anybody have any links to info about how the different systems
> > payout, and over what time?
> > >
> > > Is this one of those horses that's been been to death so many
> times...that
> > it's now tender?
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Rick,

You ask about what charging system I have.  I just installed a heavy duty
alternator this fall on the engine.  I did this not so much to charge the
batteries but to allow me to run my air conditioner longer by using a
combination batteries and engine.  This is just for emergencies when during
the summer there is the occasional weekend that it is too hot to sleep.  I
run the system for two hours between about 9PM and 11PM which cools down the
boat enough to sleep.   Besides the engine which I do not run just for
charging, I have a 35 watt solar panel.  The panel was sized to fit the
available space I had on the rear railing between the center mounted ladder
and the edge of the boat.  The other side of the rear railing is reserved
for my dinghy outboard.  To run the refrigeration full time it would take at
least 100 and probably closer to 200 watts of solar power.  My dock where I
keep my boat when not cruising has no shore power.  So the 35 watt is enough
to recharge the batteries during the week from a weekend of use.  I
currently use two low drop diodes to allow charging of both batteries
independently.  For some reason the larger deep cycle battery will boil out
enough battery acid in 3 months to need topped up.  I replaced the battery
under warranty and the new one had the same problem.  Again, batteries do
not like to share power, going out or in.  The smaller battery is not
affected as much.  I plan to purchase a solar power regulator for each
battery and install next summer.

Lou Spagna, another W25 owner, has two 100 Watt solar panels permanently
mounted above his bimini.

I do not leave my bimini up all the time so this does not work for me.



Everything is a compromise never is this more apparent as with solar and
battery storage systems.

To live “disconnected from the grid” in the same way that you do at home
would require more batteries and solar panels than the boat would hold.

John Myers

   _____

From: watkins@yahoogroups.com [mailto:watkins@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
rick_rew
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 10:10 PM
To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [watkins] Re: Watts per $ - engine, wind, solar





John,

That is great information - and a great method for getting the most out of
your refrigeration - the block of ice is a great idea.

As I spoke with my wife today about the refrig costs, she was astonished.
Had no idea that the cost could involve so many systemic, costly changes in
the boat. At that point, ice looked a lot more attractive to her than the
$3k-$5k worth of electrical upgrades for refrigeration. She thinks we can
buy a lot of ice for $5k, and I tend to agree! Glad she's a bit flexible
about the cooling thing, anyway.

I like the way you calculate the cost also. Efficiencies of volume and scale
really matter with electricity generation, apparently. There is no way we
can generate power with the efficiency of the power company.

So... I'm a bit unclear about your power system - you have a 2-bank system,
with just 2 batteries? And it sounds like you use a block of ice like a
hold-over plate, and use it to bridge between the times when you run the
fridge.

How does your charging system work out, then? Do you also have solar, or
just rely on engine charging?

The other thing that bothers me a bit about having refrigeration is the fact
that you have to be there to facilitate battery charging - unless you can
completely recharge with solar and wind. That keeps you pretty much chained
to the boat. The cool prospect about cruising is the exotic places it can
take you. When you get there, you might want to leave the boat for 3-5 days
and explore. Not possible if you have to baby sit your refrigerator.

Rick

--- In watkins@yahoogroups <mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com> .com, "John
Myers" <jdmyers@...> wrote:
>
> My Two Cents worth:
>
> My wife Cindi and I cruise for two weeks every summer somewhere. We often
> spend up to 4 days at a time away from a dock. Typically we want groceries
> or the head gets full or we get tired of nature and need some civilization
> about every 4th or 5th day. I have refrigeration which came with the boat.
> Rick's estimate of 100 amp hours per day is pretty close. Here is what we
> do. We run the refrigerator all the time the engine is running. We also
> run the refrigerator a few hours a day if we did not motor any where. To
> supplement the refrigeration we put a 20 Lb. Ice block in the bottom of
the
> box just before leaving port. We usually have ice left after 4 days when
we
> return to port. The 20 Lb. block of ice has the ability to absorb 44
> Btu/Lb. or 2,880 Btu. A refrigeration unit with a SEER of 5 can generate
> 5,000 BTU using 1 Kilowatt of power. The point being that ice is about ½
> the weigh of an equivalent battery in energy capacity.
>
>
>
> My last job was working for an automotive supplier of electronics for
hybrid
> vehicles. Here are some of the things I learned.
>
> You cannot parallel two identical batteries. No two batteries are exactly
> alike. If you put two batteries in parallel and put an ampere meter
between
> them, one will start discharging and the other charging. Thus the only
time
> you can have your Master Switch set to all is when the engine is running.
> Hybrid electric cars have 300 to 450 single cell batteries, packaged up
like
> "D" cell flash light batteries, all in series. The result is 400-600 volt
> system. This is why golf carts run on 24 or 48 volts using 6 volt
batteries
> all in series.
>
> The take away here is that if you want a large battery bank you will have
to
> change to a 24 or 48 volt house system and then use 6 volt batteries. This
> is a very big Endeavour!
>
>
>
> Rather than talk in ampere hours I prefer watts and kilowatts. It is often
> hard for folks to warp their mind around battery capacity. Batteries are
> big and heavy but contain very little power. The very large size deep
cycle
> battery for a boat contains about 1 kilowatt if fully discharged (bad
idea).
> The typical deep cycle battery for marine use has about 0.8 Kilowatts. I
> have one of each of these on my boat. Since batteries are to be cycled 50%
> or less, the net result is I have .9 kilowatts of power available. My
> utility sells me electricity at the rate of $0.11 per kilowatt. Thus my
> batteries contain ALMOST 10 cents worth of electricity if fully discharged
> but less than 5 cents worth of electricity if only 50% discharged. Think
of
> your home electric bill last month. Now calculate how long it would take
> you to use 5 cents worth! Do you see the problem?
>
>
>
> I prefer conservation and generation to storage for the obvious reasons.
> You could spend a lot on insulation and high efficiency stuff and still be
> cheaper than a large battery bank. Similarly generation is expensive but
in
> any form it should not need to be replaced in 2-5 years like batteries!
>
>
>
> FYI, The price of Solar cells is projected to drop in half during the next
> two years.
>
>
>
> John Myers
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: watkins@yahoogroups <mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com> .com
[mailto:watkins@yahoogroups <mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com> .com] On
Behalf Of
> rick_rew
> Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 11:18 AM
> To: watkins@yahoogroups <mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com> .com
> Subject: [watkins] Re: Watts per $ - engine, wind, solar
>
>
>
>
>
> Bob,
>
> I think the choice must begin with your assessment of how much power you
> need to generate, what region you will be using it.
>
> Here's an example: Rew and I are thinking of casting off when I retire,
but
> we will do it in our w27, at first anyway. What are the conveniences we
need
> power for? Rew cannot live without refrigeration - this is the single
> biggest power drain we will have. I think one of the new HF radar
> installations would be good also - not a very power intensive
installation,
> though. So, with lights, auto pilot, refrigeration, radio(s), and radar -
> probably about 100 amp hours useage each day to replace. Since we don't
want
> to be stuck charging every day, we want to build in extra capacity. So, we
> figure about a 500 AH battery bank (minimum 200 AH for daily capacity,
since
> discharge below 50 % damages batteries), plus several days of reserve.
>
> Recharging 250 AH (half of 500 - not discharging below 50 %) will require
a
> combination of solar, wind, engine alternator. And for times with no
wind/no
> sun, we will also carry a Honda 1000 or 2000 generator. I don't expect
> either solar or wind to completely replace all our AH as needed - I think
we
> will consistently undercharge the bank, and significantly shorten the life
> of batteries. All this becomes very expensive - requires monitoring,
3-stage
> voltage regulator, high-output alternator, plus obtaining wind and solar
> generators and expanding battery bank.
>
> Charging batteries with only the engine alternator can mean long daily
> periods of running the engine - not really a good idea for diesels. It is
> okay if you are motoring for several hours every day, but simply running
> them under little load but alternator is not a good idea, resulting in
> carbon build-up, and shortened life. So, the cost of generating power this
> way should also include engine wear/replacement somewhere in the equation.
>
> I think if it were me alone, or my choice alone, I would forego
> refrigeration - it really drives up the cost and complexity - but I don't
> want to go without my wife :-) And, the point she makes is for food safety
-
> refrigerator items really need consistent, cold temps (not ice) to keep
food
> edible and safe to eat, and I guess she's right on that score. Unless we
> WANT to learn how to eat without refrigeration, we'd better install it
when
> we go.
>
> I don't really think I answered many questions, Bob - maybe because the
> answers aren't that cut and dried. But this gives you a feel for my own
> struggles with answering the power generation questions.
>
> I would read all of the Sailnet.com articles by Don Casey about this. He
has
> also published several books that are helpful in working this out.
>
> Rick
>
> --- In watkins@yahoogroups <mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com> .com,
> "nine_lufts" <nine_lufts@> wrote:
> >
> > This is something I probably wont make a decision on until next summer
or
> so, but it keeps eating at the dieing gray matter, and I've not yet
wrapped
> the still-living matter around it.
> >
> > Bang for the buck with inherent compromises...
> >
> > A wind genny with gear is about a grand. Solar ranges from usueless to
> unlimited, if you're willing to look like a billboard. The cost of these
> would buy a helluvalot of deisel.
> >
> > I understand the engine noise issue vs quiet bliss.
> >
> > Does anybody have any links to info about how the different systems
> payout, and over what time?
> >
> > Is this one of those horses that's been been to death so many
times...that
> it's now tender?
> >
> > Bob
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I bought some plastic tumblers at Wal-Mart for 10 cents each.  I think they
had colors and different sizes.

Steve B.
Ripple
   -----Original Message-----
   From: watkins@yahoogroups.com [mailto:watkins@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
RJ Woodward
   Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 7:06 AM
   To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
   Subject: RE: [watkins] Re: cabin lights



   Thanks Bryan,

   I started searching the internet last night for frosted acrylic tumblers
and
   found thousands. I just need to find the right dimension; 4.5" x 2.5" or
   close and I'll have beautiful new shades!

   RJ

   From: watkins@yahoogroups.com [mailto:watkins@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of
   rick_rew
   Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 5:46 AM
   To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
   Subject: [watkins] Re: cabin lights

   This is the winning idea! I knew there was a low cost way to do this. My
   shades are ugly too. Think I'll keep my eyes open for appropriate sized,
   color drinking cups.

   Rick

   --- In watkins@yahoogroups <mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com> .com,
capbrian
   <capbrian@...> wrote:
   >
   >
   > Find cheap plastic drinking glasses in a variety of clear/semi/
   translucent types with infinite range of colors - warm yellow works well.
   and some have nautical theme patterns , Saw off the bottom of the glass ,
   drill holes for the cross bar, .........
   >
   > Cost ? less than $1 each
   >
   > Bryan
   >
   >

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks Bryan,



I started searching the internet last night for frosted acrylic tumblers and
found thousands.  I just need to find the right dimension; 4.5" x 2.5" or
close and I'll have beautiful new shades!

RJ



From: watkins@yahoogroups.com [mailto:watkins@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
rick_rew
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 5:46 AM
To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [watkins] Re: cabin lights

This is the winning idea! I knew there was a low cost way to do this. My
shades are ugly too. Think I'll keep my eyes open for appropriate sized,
color drinking cups.

Rick

--- In watkins@yahoogroups <mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com> .com, capbrian
<capbrian@...> wrote:
>
>
> Find cheap plastic drinking glasses in a variety of clear/semi/
translucent types with infinite range of colors - warm yellow works well.
and some have nautical theme patterns , Saw off the bottom of the glass ,
drill holes for the cross bar, .........
>
> Cost ? less than  $1 each
>
> Bryan
>
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This is the winning idea!  I knew there was a low cost way to do this.  My
shades are ugly too.  Think I'll keep my eyes open for appropriate sized, color
drinking cups.

Rick

--- In watkins@yahoogroups.com, capbrian <capbrian@...> wrote:
>
>
> Find cheap plastic drinking glasses in a variety of clear/semi/ translucent
types with infinite range of colors - warm yellow works well. and some have
nautical theme patterns , Saw off the bottom of the glass , drill holes for the
cross bar, .........
>  
> Cost ? less than  $1 each
>  
> Bryan
>  
>
> --- On Sat, 7/11/09, watkins@yahoogroups.com <watkins@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: watkins@yahoogroups.com <watkins@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [watkins] Digest Number 3095
> To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, 7 November, 2009, 15:14
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> watkinssailboats
>
> Messages In This Digest (5 Messages)
>
>
> 1a.
> Re: W27 - Mounting Depth Transducer From: nine_lufts
> 1b.
> Re: W27 - Mounting Depth Transducer From: rick_rew
> 1c.
> Re: W27 - Mounting Depth Transducer From: nine_lufts
>
> 2.
> Watts per $ - engine, wind, solar From: nine_lufts
>
> 3a.
> Cabin Lights From: Ronald
> View All Topics | Create New Topic
> Messages
>
>
> 1a.
>
> Re: W27 - Mounting Depth Transducer
> Posted by: "nine_lufts" nine_lufts@...   nine_lufts
> Fri Nov 6, 2009 1:20 pm (PST)
>
>
> The wax and clay ideas are creative.
>
> I do want to be forward of the keel. One reason I liked this boat was its
shallow draft, which I hope to make use of.
>
> Maybe a temporary dam could be made to keep the epoxy in place, but that's
just a guess. Fishermen are always upgrading their gear, so I hope to find a
deal on a decent fishfinder, and use it to monitor the depth. Maybe it will even
identify a large covey of lobster...:)
>
> Bob
>
> --- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, "rick_rew" <rick_rew@ .> wrote:
> >
> > Bob,
> >
> > I mounted a transducer from the inside - stuck it to the hull under the
v-berth with silicone, just aft of the water tank. This is a good location for
getting the sensor as far forward as possible - nice to see the shallow water
coming as soon as possible -
> >
> > The drawback is turbulent water at the bow can sometimes does interfere with
the readings, even though the transponder is fairly far down in the water, and
back from the cut-water.
> >
> > My instructions specified gluing to the inside hull with epoxy, but there
was simply no way to get an airtight seal against the hull with plain
unthickened epoxy. Plus, the transducer would slide off the position before it
stuck down well. As it was, I still had to brace the transducer in place until
the silicone cured.
> >
> > Silicone introduces some inaccuracy in the readings, but not significantly
in shallow water, which is where it matters most for me. I figure the transducer
is about a foot below the water line - so those alarming readings in the very
small numbers have a safety factor of about a foot built into them.
> >
> > Rick
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, "nine_lufts" <nine_lufts@ > wrote:
> > >
> > > Who has mounted an in-hull see-thru transducer forward of the keel, and
what method worked best?
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (8)
> 1b.
>
> Re: W27 - Mounting Depth Transducer
> Posted by: "rick_rew" rick_rew@...   rick_rew
> Fri Nov 6, 2009 2:28 pm (PST)
>
>
> The fish finder is actually a good idea, and I was going in that direction
myself when I replaced my depth find this past summer. In fact, I kind of wish I
had done that anyway - you get more information from a fish finder.
>
> Rick
>
> --- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, "nine_lufts" <nine_lufts@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > The wax and clay ideas are creative.
> >
> > I do want to be forward of the keel. One reason I liked this boat was its
shallow draft, which I hope to make use of.
> >
> > Maybe a temporary dam could be made to keep the epoxy in place, but that's
just a guess. Fishermen are always upgrading their gear, so I hope to find a
deal on a decent fishfinder, and use it to monitor the depth. Maybe it will even
identify a large covey of lobster...:)
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > --- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, "rick_rew" <rick_rew@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Bob,
> > >
> > > I mounted a transducer from the inside - stuck it to the hull under the
v-berth with silicone, just aft of the water tank. This is a good location for
getting the sensor as far forward as possible - nice to see the shallow water
coming as soon as possible -
> > >
> > > The drawback is turbulent water at the bow can sometimes does interfere
with the readings, even though the transponder is fairly far down in the water,
and back from the cut-water.
> > >
> > > My instructions specified gluing to the inside hull with epoxy, but there
was simply no way to get an airtight seal against the hull with plain
unthickened epoxy. Plus, the transducer would slide off the position before it
stuck down well. As it was, I still had to brace the transducer in place until
the silicone cured.
> > >
> > > Silicone introduces some inaccuracy in the readings, but not significantly
in shallow water, which is where it matters most for me. I figure the transducer
is about a foot below the water line - so those alarming readings in the very
small numbers have a safety factor of about a foot built into them.
> > >
> > > Rick
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, "nine_lufts" <nine_lufts@ > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Who has mounted an in-hull see-thru transducer forward of the keel, and
what method worked best?
> > > >
> > > > Bob
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (8)
> 1c.
>
> Re: W27 - Mounting Depth Transducer
> Posted by: "nine_lufts" nine_lufts@...   nine_lufts
> Fri Nov 6, 2009 3:44 pm (PST)
>
>
> I've never used one myself, but see a benefit in having a 'picture' of the
bottom.
>
> Mounting the unit itself needs some thought, and also being able to
easily/conveniently stow it inside when off the boat. I'm sure there are
different quality screens, some better in direct sunlight than others, and maybe
needing to be pivoted when past 'x' angle.
>
> Maybe Bubba Joe is getting a newest, bestest model for Christmas and wants to
get rid of his Bass Buster Extreme Magnum Platinum Turbo Extreme unit...
>
> I haven't looked at them, but the trickest units might be the large screen
marine units that overlay charts, gps, radar, sounding, and sat weather...and
maybe even lastest-released movies, too. Wowzers... Bubba Joe don't have one of
these...yet. ..:)
>
> Bob
>
> --- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, "rick_rew" <rick_rew@ .> wrote:
> >
> > The fish finder is actually a good idea, and I was going in that direction
myself when I replaced my depth find this past summer. In fact, I kind of wish I
had done that anyway - you get more information from a fish finder.
> >
> > Rick
> >
> > --- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, "nine_lufts" <nine_lufts@ > wrote:
> > >
> > > The wax and clay ideas are creative.
> > >
> > > I do want to be forward of the keel. One reason I liked this boat was its
shallow draft, which I hope to make use of.
> > >
> > > Maybe a temporary dam could be made to keep the epoxy in place, but that's
just a guess. Fishermen are always upgrading their gear, so I hope to find a
deal on a decent fishfinder, and use it to monitor the depth. Maybe it will even
identify a large covey of lobster...:)
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >
> > > --- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, "rick_rew" <rick_rew@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Bob,
> > > >
> > > > I mounted a transducer from the inside - stuck it to the hull under the
v-berth with silicone, just aft of the water tank. This is a good location for
getting the sensor as far forward as possible - nice to see the shallow water
coming as soon as possible -
> > > >
> > > > The drawback is turbulent water at the bow can sometimes does interfere
with the readings, even though the transponder is fairly far down in the water,
and back from the cut-water.
> > > >
> > > > My instructions specified gluing to the inside hull with epoxy, but
there was simply no way to get an airtight seal against the hull with plain
unthickened epoxy. Plus, the transducer would slide off the position before it
stuck down well. As it was, I still had to brace the transducer in place until
the silicone cured.
> > > >
> > > > Silicone introduces some inaccuracy in the readings, but not
significantly in shallow water, which is where it matters most for me. I figure
the transducer is about a foot below the water line - so those alarming readings
in the very small numbers have a safety factor of about a foot built into them.
> > > >
> > > > Rick
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, "nine_lufts" <nine_lufts@ > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Who has mounted an in-hull see-thru transducer forward of the keel,
and what method worked best?
> > > > >
> > > > > Bob
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (8)
>
> 2.
>
> Watts per $ - engine, wind, solar
> Posted by: "nine_lufts" nine_lufts@...   nine_lufts
> Fri Nov 6, 2009 5:07 pm (PST)
>
>
> This is something I probably wont make a decision on until next summer or so,
but it keeps eating at the dieing gray matter, and I've not yet wrapped the
still-living matter around it.
>
> Bang for the buck with inherent compromises. ..
>
> A wind genny with gear is about a grand. Solar ranges from usueless to
unlimited, if you're willing to look like a billboard. The cost of these would
buy a helluvalot of deisel.
>
> I understand the engine noise issue vs quiet bliss.
>
> Does anybody have any links to info about how the different systems payout,
and over what time?
>
> Is this one of those horses that's been been to death so many times...that
it's now tender?
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (1)
>
> 3a.
>
> Cabin Lights
> Posted by: "Ronald" rjwoodward@...   rj_woody4
> Fri Nov 6, 2009 7:01 pm (PST)
>
>
> To All Captains,
>
> I'm trying to replace the lamp shades on the cabin lights. (12 VDC) I can't
find anything to replace the plastic tube they used as a shade. They are simple
plastic cylinders that Watkins just cut and drilled to make an effective lamp.
Translucent white, 2.5" by 4.5" and about a 1/16" side wall. Can you think of
anything I could use to replace? Really don't want to buy the $50 brass fancy
pants lights.
>
> Thanks in Advance,
>
> RJ Woodward
> S/V Honey's Hope
> 1984 W25 #27
>
>
>
> Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (3)
>
>
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Find cheap plastic drinking glasses in a variety of clear/semi/ translucent
types with infinite range of colors - warm yellow works well. and some have
nautical theme patterns , Saw off the bottom of the glass , drill holes for the
cross bar, .........
 
Cost ? less than  $1 each
 
Bryan
 

--- On Sat, 7/11/09, watkins@yahoogroups.com <watkins@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


From: watkins@yahoogroups.com <watkins@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [watkins] Digest Number 3095
To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, 7 November, 2009, 15:14








watkinssailboats

Messages In This Digest (5 Messages)


1a.
Re: W27 - Mounting Depth Transducer From: nine_lufts
1b.
Re: W27 - Mounting Depth Transducer From: rick_rew
1c.
Re: W27 - Mounting Depth Transducer From: nine_lufts

2.
Watts per $ - engine, wind, solar From: nine_lufts

3a.
Cabin Lights From: Ronald
View All Topics | Create New Topic
Messages


1a.

Re: W27 - Mounting Depth Transducer
Posted by: "nine_lufts" nine_lufts@...   nine_lufts
Fri Nov 6, 2009 1:20 pm (PST)


The wax and clay ideas are creative.

I do want to be forward of the keel. One reason I liked this boat was its
shallow draft, which I hope to make use of.

Maybe a temporary dam could be made to keep the epoxy in place, but that's just
a guess. Fishermen are always upgrading their gear, so I hope to find a deal on
a decent fishfinder, and use it to monitor the depth. Maybe it will even
identify a large covey of lobster...:)

Bob

--- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, "rick_rew" <rick_rew@.. .> wrote:
>
> Bob,
>
> I mounted a transducer from the inside - stuck it to the hull under the
v-berth with silicone, just aft of the water tank. This is a good location for
getting the sensor as far forward as possible - nice to see the shallow water
coming as soon as possible -
>
> The drawback is turbulent water at the bow can sometimes does interfere with
the readings, even though the transponder is fairly far down in the water, and
back from the cut-water.
>
> My instructions specified gluing to the inside hull with epoxy, but there was
simply no way to get an airtight seal against the hull with plain unthickened
epoxy. Plus, the transducer would slide off the position before it stuck down
well. As it was, I still had to brace the transducer in place until the silicone
cured.
>
> Silicone introduces some inaccuracy in the readings, but not significantly in
shallow water, which is where it matters most for me. I figure the transducer is
about a foot below the water line - so those alarming readings in the very small
numbers have a safety factor of about a foot built into them.
>
> Rick
>
>
>
> --- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, "nine_lufts" <nine_lufts@ > wrote:
> >
> > Who has mounted an in-hull see-thru transducer forward of the keel, and what
method worked best?
> >
> > Bob
> >
>



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Messages in this topic (8)
1b.

Re: W27 - Mounting Depth Transducer
Posted by: "rick_rew" rick_rew@...   rick_rew
Fri Nov 6, 2009 2:28 pm (PST)


The fish finder is actually a good idea, and I was going in that direction
myself when I replaced my depth find this past summer. In fact, I kind of wish I
had done that anyway - you get more information from a fish finder.

Rick

--- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, "nine_lufts" <nine_lufts@ ...> wrote:
>
> The wax and clay ideas are creative.
>
> I do want to be forward of the keel. One reason I liked this boat was its
shallow draft, which I hope to make use of.
>
> Maybe a temporary dam could be made to keep the epoxy in place, but that's
just a guess. Fishermen are always upgrading their gear, so I hope to find a
deal on a decent fishfinder, and use it to monitor the depth. Maybe it will even
identify a large covey of lobster...:)
>
> Bob
>
> --- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, "rick_rew" <rick_rew@> wrote:
> >
> > Bob,
> >
> > I mounted a transducer from the inside - stuck it to the hull under the
v-berth with silicone, just aft of the water tank. This is a good location for
getting the sensor as far forward as possible - nice to see the shallow water
coming as soon as possible -
> >
> > The drawback is turbulent water at the bow can sometimes does interfere with
the readings, even though the transponder is fairly far down in the water, and
back from the cut-water.
> >
> > My instructions specified gluing to the inside hull with epoxy, but there
was simply no way to get an airtight seal against the hull with plain
unthickened epoxy. Plus, the transducer would slide off the position before it
stuck down well. As it was, I still had to brace the transducer in place until
the silicone cured.
> >
> > Silicone introduces some inaccuracy in the readings, but not significantly
in shallow water, which is where it matters most for me. I figure the transducer
is about a foot below the water line - so those alarming readings in the very
small numbers have a safety factor of about a foot built into them.
> >
> > Rick
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, "nine_lufts" <nine_lufts@ > wrote:
> > >
> > > Who has mounted an in-hull see-thru transducer forward of the keel, and
what method worked best?
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >
> >
>



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Messages in this topic (8)
1c.

Re: W27 - Mounting Depth Transducer
Posted by: "nine_lufts" nine_lufts@...   nine_lufts
Fri Nov 6, 2009 3:44 pm (PST)


I've never used one myself, but see a benefit in having a 'picture' of the
bottom.

Mounting the unit itself needs some thought, and also being able to
easily/conveniently stow it inside when off the boat. I'm sure there are
different quality screens, some better in direct sunlight than others, and maybe
needing to be pivoted when past 'x' angle.

Maybe Bubba Joe is getting a newest, bestest model for Christmas and wants to
get rid of his Bass Buster Extreme Magnum Platinum Turbo Extreme unit...

I haven't looked at them, but the trickest units might be the large screen
marine units that overlay charts, gps, radar, sounding, and sat weather...and
maybe even lastest-released movies, too. Wowzers... Bubba Joe don't have one of
these...yet. ..:)

Bob

--- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, "rick_rew" <rick_rew@.. .> wrote:
>
> The fish finder is actually a good idea, and I was going in that direction
myself when I replaced my depth find this past summer. In fact, I kind of wish I
had done that anyway - you get more information from a fish finder.
>
> Rick
>
> --- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, "nine_lufts" <nine_lufts@ > wrote:
> >
> > The wax and clay ideas are creative.
> >
> > I do want to be forward of the keel. One reason I liked this boat was its
shallow draft, which I hope to make use of.
> >
> > Maybe a temporary dam could be made to keep the epoxy in place, but that's
just a guess. Fishermen are always upgrading their gear, so I hope to find a
deal on a decent fishfinder, and use it to monitor the depth. Maybe it will even
identify a large covey of lobster...:)
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > --- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, "rick_rew" <rick_rew@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Bob,
> > >
> > > I mounted a transducer from the inside - stuck it to the hull under the
v-berth with silicone, just aft of the water tank. This is a good location for
getting the sensor as far forward as possible - nice to see the shallow water
coming as soon as possible -
> > >
> > > The drawback is turbulent water at the bow can sometimes does interfere
with the readings, even though the transponder is fairly far down in the water,
and back from the cut-water.
> > >
> > > My instructions specified gluing to the inside hull with epoxy, but there
was simply no way to get an airtight seal against the hull with plain
unthickened epoxy. Plus, the transducer would slide off the position before it
stuck down well. As it was, I still had to brace the transducer in place until
the silicone cured.
> > >
> > > Silicone introduces some inaccuracy in the readings, but not significantly
in shallow water, which is where it matters most for me. I figure the transducer
is about a foot below the water line - so those alarming readings in the very
small numbers have a safety factor of about a foot built into them.
> > >
> > > Rick
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, "nine_lufts" <nine_lufts@ > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Who has mounted an in-hull see-thru transducer forward of the keel, and
what method worked best?
> > > >
> > > > Bob
> > > >
> > >
> >
>



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Messages in this topic (8)

2.

Watts per $ - engine, wind, solar
Posted by: "nine_lufts" nine_lufts@...   nine_lufts
Fri Nov 6, 2009 5:07 pm (PST)


This is something I probably wont make a decision on until next summer or so,
but it keeps eating at the dieing gray matter, and I've not yet wrapped the
still-living matter around it.

Bang for the buck with inherent compromises. ..

A wind genny with gear is about a grand. Solar ranges from usueless to
unlimited, if you're willing to look like a billboard. The cost of these would
buy a helluvalot of deisel.

I understand the engine noise issue vs quiet bliss.

Does anybody have any links to info about how the different systems payout, and
over what time?

Is this one of those horses that's been been to death so many times...that it's
now tender?

Bob



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Messages in this topic (1)

3a.

Cabin Lights
Posted by: "Ronald" rjwoodward@...   rj_woody4
Fri Nov 6, 2009 7:01 pm (PST)


To All Captains,

I'm trying to replace the lamp shades on the cabin lights. (12 VDC) I can't find
anything to replace the plastic tube they used as a shade. They are simple
plastic cylinders that Watkins just cut and drilled to make an effective lamp.
Translucent white, 2.5" by 4.5" and about a 1/16" side wall. Can you think of
anything I could use to replace? Really don't want to buy the $50 brass fancy
pants lights.

Thanks in Advance,

RJ Woodward
S/V Honey's Hope
1984 W25 #27



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Messages in this topic (3)



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

For those of you contemplating new boat cushions, the latest issue of "Good Old
Boat" magazine (Nov/Dec 2009) has an article "DIY Boat Cushions" on page 20. All
about doing them up from scratch.



Paul Windt

x-Wendor 1981 W27


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

John,

That is great information - and a great method for getting the most out of your
refrigeration - the block of ice is a great idea.

As I spoke with my wife today about the refrig costs, she was astonished.  Had
no idea that the cost could involve so many systemic, costly changes in the
boat.  At that point, ice looked a lot more attractive to her than the $3k-$5k
worth of electrical upgrades for refrigeration.  She thinks we can buy a lot of
ice for $5k, and I tend to agree!  Glad she's a bit flexible about the cooling
thing, anyway.

I like the way you calculate the cost also.  Efficiencies of volume and scale
really matter with electricity generation, apparently.  There is no way we can
generate power with the efficiency of the power company.

So... I'm a bit unclear about your power system - you have a 2-bank system, with
just 2 batteries?  And it sounds like you use a block of ice like a hold-over
plate, and use it to bridge between the times when you run the fridge.

How does your charging system work out, then?  Do you also have solar, or just
rely on engine charging?

The other thing that bothers me a bit about having refrigeration is the fact
that you have to be there to facilitate battery charging - unless you can
completely recharge with solar and wind.  That keeps you pretty much chained to
the boat.  The cool prospect about cruising is the exotic places it can take
you.  When you get there, you might want to leave the boat for 3-5 days and
explore.  Not possible if you have to baby sit your refrigerator.

Rick

--- In watkins@yahoogroups.com, "John Myers" <jdmyers@...> wrote:
>
> My Two Cents worth:
>
> My wife Cindi and I cruise for two weeks every summer somewhere.  We often
> spend up to 4 days at a time away from a dock.  Typically we want groceries
> or the head gets full or we get tired of nature and need some civilization
> about every 4th or 5th day.  I have refrigeration which came with the boat.
> Rick's estimate of 100 amp hours per day is pretty close.  Here is what we
> do.  We run the refrigerator all the time the engine is running.  We also
> run the refrigerator a few hours a day if we did not motor any where.   To
> supplement the refrigeration we put a 20 Lb. Ice block in the bottom of the
> box just before leaving port.  We usually have ice left after 4 days when we
> return to port.  The 20 Lb. block of ice has the ability to absorb 44
> Btu/Lb. or 2,880 Btu.  A refrigeration unit with a SEER of 5 can generate
> 5,000 BTU using 1 Kilowatt of power.  The point being that ice is about ½
> the weigh of an equivalent battery in energy capacity.
>
>
>
> My last job was working for an automotive supplier of electronics for hybrid
> vehicles.  Here are some of the things I learned.
>
> You cannot parallel two identical batteries.  No two batteries are exactly
> alike.  If you put two batteries in parallel and put an ampere meter between
> them, one will start discharging and the other charging.  Thus the only time
> you can have your Master Switch set to all is when the engine is running.
> Hybrid electric cars have 300 to 450 single cell batteries, packaged up like
> "D" cell flash light batteries, all in series.  The result is 400-600 volt
> system.  This is why golf carts run on 24 or 48 volts using 6 volt batteries
> all in series.
>
> The take away here is that if you want a large battery bank you will have to
> change to a 24 or 48 volt house system and then use 6 volt batteries.  This
> is a very big Endeavour!
>
>
>
> Rather than talk in ampere hours I prefer watts and kilowatts.  It is often
> hard for folks to warp their mind around battery capacity.  Batteries are
> big and heavy but contain very little power.  The very large size deep cycle
> battery for a boat contains about 1 kilowatt if fully discharged (bad idea).
> The typical deep cycle battery for marine use has about 0.8 Kilowatts.  I
> have one of each of these on my boat.  Since batteries are to be cycled 50%
> or less, the net result is I have .9 kilowatts of power available.  My
> utility sells me electricity at the rate of $0.11 per kilowatt.  Thus my
> batteries contain ALMOST 10 cents worth of electricity if fully discharged
> but less than 5 cents worth of electricity if only 50% discharged.  Think of
> your home electric bill last month.  Now calculate how long it would take
> you to use 5 cents worth!  Do you see the problem?
>
>
>
> I prefer conservation and generation to storage for the obvious reasons.
> You could spend a lot on insulation and high efficiency stuff and still be
> cheaper than a large battery bank.  Similarly generation is expensive but in
> any form it should not need to be replaced in 2-5 years like batteries!
>
>
>
> FYI, The price of Solar cells is projected to drop in half during the next
> two years.
>
>
>
> John Myers
>
>
>
>
>
>   _____
>
> From: watkins@yahoogroups.com [mailto:watkins@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> rick_rew
> Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 11:18 AM
> To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [watkins] Re: Watts per $ - engine, wind, solar
>
>
>
>
>
> Bob,
>
> I think the choice must begin with your assessment of how much power you
> need to generate, what region you will be using it.
>
> Here's an example: Rew and I are thinking of casting off when I retire, but
> we will do it in our w27, at first anyway. What are the conveniences we need
> power for? Rew cannot live without refrigeration - this is the single
> biggest power drain we will have. I think one of the new HF radar
> installations would be good also - not a very power intensive installation,
> though. So, with lights, auto pilot, refrigeration, radio(s), and radar -
> probably about 100 amp hours useage each day to replace. Since we don't want
> to be stuck charging every day, we want to build in extra capacity. So, we
> figure about a 500 AH battery bank (minimum 200 AH for daily capacity, since
> discharge below 50 % damages batteries), plus several days of reserve.
>
> Recharging 250 AH (half of 500 - not discharging below 50 %) will require a
> combination of solar, wind, engine alternator. And for times with no wind/no
> sun, we will also carry a Honda 1000 or 2000 generator. I don't expect
> either solar or wind to completely replace all our AH as needed - I think we
> will consistently undercharge the bank, and significantly shorten the life
> of batteries. All this becomes very expensive - requires monitoring, 3-stage
> voltage regulator, high-output alternator, plus obtaining wind and solar
> generators and expanding battery bank.
>
> Charging batteries with only the engine alternator can mean long daily
> periods of running the engine - not really a good idea for diesels. It is
> okay if you are motoring for several hours every day, but simply running
> them under little load but alternator is not a good idea, resulting in
> carbon build-up, and shortened life. So, the cost of generating power this
> way should also include engine wear/replacement somewhere in the equation.
>
> I think if it were me alone, or my choice alone, I would forego
> refrigeration - it really drives up the cost and complexity - but I don't
> want to go without my wife :-) And, the point she makes is for food safety -
> refrigerator items really need consistent, cold temps (not ice) to keep food
> edible and safe to eat, and I guess she's right on that score. Unless we
> WANT to learn how to eat without refrigeration, we'd better install it when
> we go.
>
> I don't really think I answered many questions, Bob - maybe because the
> answers aren't that cut and dried. But this gives you a feel for my own
> struggles with answering the power generation questions.
>
> I would read all of the Sailnet.com articles by Don Casey about this. He has
> also published several books that are helpful in working this out.
>
> Rick
>
> --- In watkins@yahoogroups <mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com> .com,
> "nine_lufts" <nine_lufts@> wrote:
> >
> > This is something I probably wont make a decision on until next summer or
> so, but it keeps eating at the dieing gray matter, and I've not yet wrapped
> the still-living matter around it.
> >
> > Bang for the buck with inherent compromises...
> >
> > A wind genny with gear is about a grand. Solar ranges from usueless to
> unlimited, if you're willing to look like a billboard. The cost of these
> would buy a helluvalot of deisel.
> >
> > I understand the engine noise issue vs quiet bliss.
> >
> > Does anybody have any links to info about how the different systems
> payout, and over what time?
> >
> > Is this one of those horses that's been been to death so many times...that
> it's now tender?
> >
> > Bob
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

My Two Cents worth:

My wife Cindi and I cruise for two weeks every summer somewhere.  We often
spend up to 4 days at a time away from a dock.  Typically we want groceries
or the head gets full or we get tired of nature and need some civilization
about every 4th or 5th day.  I have refrigeration which came with the boat.
Rick’s estimate of 100 amp hours per day is pretty close.  Here is what we
do.  We run the refrigerator all the time the engine is running.  We also
run the refrigerator a few hours a day if we did not motor any where.   To
supplement the refrigeration we put a 20 Lb. Ice block in the bottom of the
box just before leaving port.  We usually have ice left after 4 days when we
return to port.  The 20 Lb. block of ice has the ability to absorb 44
Btu/Lb. or 2,880 Btu.  A refrigeration unit with a SEER of 5 can generate
5,000 BTU using 1 Kilowatt of power.  The point being that ice is about ½
the weigh of an equivalent battery in energy capacity.



My last job was working for an automotive supplier of electronics for hybrid
vehicles.  Here are some of the things I learned.

You cannot parallel two identical batteries.  No two batteries are exactly
alike.  If you put two batteries in parallel and put an ampere meter between
them, one will start discharging and the other charging.  Thus the only time
you can have your Master Switch set to all is when the engine is running.
Hybrid electric cars have 300 to 450 single cell batteries, packaged up like
“D” cell flash light batteries, all in series.  The result is 400-600 volt
system.  This is why golf carts run on 24 or 48 volts using 6 volt batteries
all in series.

The take away here is that if you want a large battery bank you will have to
change to a 24 or 48 volt house system and then use 6 volt batteries.  This
is a very big Endeavour!



Rather than talk in ampere hours I prefer watts and kilowatts.  It is often
hard for folks to warp their mind around battery capacity.  Batteries are
big and heavy but contain very little power.  The very large size deep cycle
battery for a boat contains about 1 kilowatt if fully discharged (bad idea).
The typical deep cycle battery for marine use has about 0.8 Kilowatts.  I
have one of each of these on my boat.  Since batteries are to be cycled 50%
or less, the net result is I have .9 kilowatts of power available.  My
utility sells me electricity at the rate of $0.11 per kilowatt.  Thus my
batteries contain ALMOST 10 cents worth of electricity if fully discharged
but less than 5 cents worth of electricity if only 50% discharged.  Think of
your home electric bill last month.  Now calculate how long it would take
you to use 5 cents worth!  Do you see the problem?



I prefer conservation and generation to storage for the obvious reasons.
You could spend a lot on insulation and high efficiency stuff and still be
cheaper than a large battery bank.  Similarly generation is expensive but in
any form it should not need to be replaced in 2-5 years like batteries!



FYI, The price of Solar cells is projected to drop in half during the next
two years.



John Myers





   _____

From: watkins@yahoogroups.com [mailto:watkins@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
rick_rew
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 11:18 AM
To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [watkins] Re: Watts per $ - engine, wind, solar





Bob,

I think the choice must begin with your assessment of how much power you
need to generate, what region you will be using it.

Here's an example: Rew and I are thinking of casting off when I retire, but
we will do it in our w27, at first anyway. What are the conveniences we need
power for? Rew cannot live without refrigeration - this is the single
biggest power drain we will have. I think one of the new HF radar
installations would be good also - not a very power intensive installation,
though. So, with lights, auto pilot, refrigeration, radio(s), and radar -
probably about 100 amp hours useage each day to replace. Since we don't want
to be stuck charging every day, we want to build in extra capacity. So, we
figure about a 500 AH battery bank (minimum 200 AH for daily capacity, since
discharge below 50 % damages batteries), plus several days of reserve.

Recharging 250 AH (half of 500 - not discharging below 50 %) will require a
combination of solar, wind, engine alternator. And for times with no wind/no
sun, we will also carry a Honda 1000 or 2000 generator. I don't expect
either solar or wind to completely replace all our AH as needed - I think we
will consistently undercharge the bank, and significantly shorten the life
of batteries. All this becomes very expensive - requires monitoring, 3-stage
voltage regulator, high-output alternator, plus obtaining wind and solar
generators and expanding battery bank.

Charging batteries with only the engine alternator can mean long daily
periods of running the engine - not really a good idea for diesels. It is
okay if you are motoring for several hours every day, but simply running
them under little load but alternator is not a good idea, resulting in
carbon build-up, and shortened life. So, the cost of generating power this
way should also include engine wear/replacement somewhere in the equation.

I think if it were me alone, or my choice alone, I would forego
refrigeration - it really drives up the cost and complexity - but I don't
want to go without my wife :-) And, the point she makes is for food safety -
refrigerator items really need consistent, cold temps (not ice) to keep food
edible and safe to eat, and I guess she's right on that score. Unless we
WANT to learn how to eat without refrigeration, we'd better install it when
we go.

I don't really think I answered many questions, Bob - maybe because the
answers aren't that cut and dried. But this gives you a feel for my own
struggles with answering the power generation questions.

I would read all of the Sailnet.com articles by Don Casey about this. He has
also published several books that are helpful in working this out.

Rick

--- In watkins@yahoogroups <mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com> .com,
"nine_lufts" <nine_lufts@...> wrote:
>
> This is something I probably wont make a decision on until next summer or
so, but it keeps eating at the dieing gray matter, and I've not yet wrapped
the still-living matter around it.
>
> Bang for the buck with inherent compromises...
>
> A wind genny with gear is about a grand. Solar ranges from usueless to
unlimited, if you're willing to look like a billboard. The cost of these
would buy a helluvalot of deisel.
>
> I understand the engine noise issue vs quiet bliss.
>
> Does anybody have any links to info about how the different systems
payout, and over what time?
>
> Is this one of those horses that's been been to death so many times...that
it's now tender?
>
> Bob
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Rick,

I appreciate your post. My needs will comme in stages, although I'm trying to
view the big picture so that I don't need to redo things as I go along. The
measure twice - spend once, kinda thing, if that makes sense.

Stage One needs for me will probably be nothing more exciting than
laptop, nav lights, gps/fishfinder, vhf and ssb, and a cabin light or three.

Stage Two will envolve some type of simple refrigeration, and that's where, as
you've said, the power needs take a leep. I've looked at wind gennys, and with a
healthy (subjective)battery bank, I think that might be my main supply for
Bahamas, Caribbean, and Central America conditions. I've briefly looked at the
flexible film solar, and that seems convenient. Even though the regular solar
panels seem popular, I'm still resisting going that route. If the boat were a
Cat, I'd go with propane.

The factory alternator on this engine (YSM8)is 35amp, and I 'think' there is a
55 upgrade available. Another biggy that's still uknown to me is whether or not
this engine will be a keeper, at least for the next few years.

I don't yet know how fast a small gas Honda/Yammy will recharge batteries. They
might be the juice, and a nice solution, or just a waste of money, along with
space taken and additional fuel hassles.

I want the ability to be self sufficient for a couple of weeks at a time.

Stage Three is the radar you've mentioned, along with more lighting. My thoughts
at this time are that I'd go radar when being ready for a windvane and extended
solo sailing - the alarm function, and hopefully sound sleeping. XM Weather also
looks like the bee's knees.

It's all an exercise at this time, and I'm certain some things will change. I
know others have worked themselves through similar mazes, and hope to draw on
their experiences.

When I first bought this boat (still unseen), I had a laundry list a Nmile
long...:) Now, reality kicks in. Just go have some fun...

Bob





--- In watkins@yahoogroups.com, "rick_rew" <rick_rew@...> wrote:
>
> Bob,
>
> I think the choice must begin with your assessment of how much power you need
to generate, what region you will be using it.
>
> Here's an example:  Rew and I are thinking of casting off when I retire, but
we will do it in our w27, at first anyway.  What are the conveniences we need
power for?  Rew cannot live without refrigeration - this is the single biggest
power drain we will have.  I think one of the new HF radar installations would
be good also - not a very power intensive installation, though.  So, with
lights, auto pilot, refrigeration, radio(s), and radar - probably about 100 amp
hours useage each day to replace.  Since we don't want to be stuck charging
every day, we want to build in extra capacity.  So, we figure about a 500 AH
battery bank (minimum 200 AH for daily capacity, since discharge below 50 %
damages batteries), plus several days of reserve.
>
> Recharging 250 AH (half of 500 - not discharging below 50 %) will require a
combination of solar, wind, engine alternator.   And for times with no wind/no
sun, we will also carry a Honda 1000 or 2000 generator.  I don't expect either
solar or wind to completely replace all our AH as needed - I think we will
consistently undercharge the bank, and significantly shorten the life of
batteries.  All this becomes very expensive - requires monitoring, 3-stage
voltage regulator, high-output alternator, plus obtaining wind and solar
generators and expanding battery bank.
>
> Charging batteries with only the engine alternator can mean long daily periods
of running the engine - not really a good idea for diesels.  It is okay if you
are motoring for several hours every day, but simply running them under little
load but alternator is not a good idea, resulting in carbon build-up, and
shortened life.  So, the cost of generating power this way should also include
engine wear/replacement somewhere in the equation.
>
> I think if it were me alone, or my choice alone, I would forego refrigeration
- it really drives up the cost and complexity - but I don't want to go without
my wife :-)  And, the point she makes is for food safety - refrigerator items
really need consistent, cold temps (not ice) to keep food edible and safe to
eat, and I guess she's right on that score.  Unless we WANT to learn how to eat
without refrigeration, we'd better install it when we go.
>
> I don't really think I answered many questions, Bob - maybe because the
answers aren't that cut and dried.  But this gives you a feel for my own
struggles with answering the power generation questions.
>
> I would read all of the Sailnet.com articles by Don Casey about this.  He has
also published several books that are helpful in working this out.
>
> Rick
>
> --- In watkins@yahoogroups.com, "nine_lufts" <nine_lufts@> wrote:
> >
> > This is something I probably wont make a decision on until next summer or
so, but it keeps eating at the dieing gray matter, and I've not yet wrapped the
still-living matter around it.
> >
> > Bang for the buck with inherent compromises...
> >
> > A wind genny with gear is about a grand. Solar ranges from usueless to
unlimited, if you're willing to look like a billboard. The cost of these would
buy a helluvalot of deisel.
> >
> > I understand the engine noise issue vs quiet bliss.
> >
> > Does anybody have any links to info about how the different systems payout,
and over what time?
> >
> > Is this one of those horses that's been been to death so many times...that
it's now tender?
> >
> > Bob
> >
>

Bob,

I think the choice must begin with your assessment of how much power you need to
generate, what region you will be using it.

Here's an example:  Rew and I are thinking of casting off when I retire, but we
will do it in our w27, at first anyway.  What are the conveniences we need power
for?  Rew cannot live without refrigeration - this is the single biggest power
drain we will have.  I think one of the new HF radar installations would be good
also - not a very power intensive installation, though.  So, with lights, auto
pilot, refrigeration, radio(s), and radar - probably about 100 amp hours useage
each day to replace.  Since we don't want to be stuck charging every day, we
want to build in extra capacity.  So, we figure about a 500 AH battery bank
(minimum 200 AH for daily capacity, since discharge below 50 % damages
batteries), plus several days of reserve.

Recharging 250 AH (half of 500 - not discharging below 50 %) will require a
combination of solar, wind, engine alternator.   And for times with no wind/no
sun, we will also carry a Honda 1000 or 2000 generator.  I don't expect either
solar or wind to completely replace all our AH as needed - I think we will
consistently undercharge the bank, and significantly shorten the life of
batteries.  All this becomes very expensive - requires monitoring, 3-stage
voltage regulator, high-output alternator, plus obtaining wind and solar
generators and expanding battery bank.

Charging batteries with only the engine alternator can mean long daily periods
of running the engine - not really a good idea for diesels.  It is okay if you
are motoring for several hours every day, but simply running them under little
load but alternator is not a good idea, resulting in carbon build-up, and
shortened life.  So, the cost of generating power this way should also include
engine wear/replacement somewhere in the equation.

I think if it were me alone, or my choice alone, I would forego refrigeration -
it really drives up the cost and complexity - but I don't want to go without my
wife :-)  And, the point she makes is for food safety - refrigerator items
really need consistent, cold temps (not ice) to keep food edible and safe to
eat, and I guess she's right on that score.  Unless we WANT to learn how to eat
without refrigeration, we'd better install it when we go.

I don't really think I answered many questions, Bob - maybe because the answers
aren't that cut and dried.  But this gives you a feel for my own struggles with
answering the power generation questions.

I would read all of the Sailnet.com articles by Don Casey about this.  He has
also published several books that are helpful in working this out.

Rick

--- In watkins@yahoogroups.com, "nine_lufts" <nine_lufts@...> wrote:
>
> This is something I probably wont make a decision on until next summer or so,
but it keeps eating at the dieing gray matter, and I've not yet wrapped the
still-living matter around it.
>
> Bang for the buck with inherent compromises...
>
> A wind genny with gear is about a grand. Solar ranges from usueless to
unlimited, if you're willing to look like a billboard. The cost of these would
buy a helluvalot of deisel.
>
> I understand the engine noise issue vs quiet bliss.
>
> Does anybody have any links to info about how the different systems payout,
and over what time?
>
> Is this one of those horses that's been been to death so many times...that
it's now tender?
>
> Bob
>

I could use the fixtures as well if you don't think you will use them.

Thanks,
RJ Woodward

   _____

From: watkins@yahoogroups.com [mailto:watkins@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
hugh kominars
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 10:57 PM
To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [watkins] Re: Cabin Lights





RJ - I will look through the box and get back to you regarding how many i
have.  Do you want the fixtures also?

hk

________________________________
From: nine_lufts <nine_lufts@yahoo. <mailto:nine_lufts%40yahoo.com> com>
To: watkins@yahoogroups <mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com> .com
Sent: Sat, November 7, 2009 6:32:03 PM
Subject: [watkins] Re: Cabin Lights


A good plastic tubing supply house should know where it (or similar)can be
found.

Bob

--- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, "RJ Woodward" <rjwoodward@ ...> wrote:
>
> Hugh,
>
> That would be great! I've had no luck finding anything on my own. If you
> have 4 of them I'd be happy to pay the shipping and supply you with a
> complimentary bottle of your favorite adult beverage as well. Or if you're
> a beer drinker I could send some of our finest Samuel Adams Boston Lager!
I
> can pay the shipping by PayPal if you use that service or send a check or
> money order if you prefer.
>
> Thanks,
>
> RJ Woodward
> 5 Strawberry Knoll Drive
> Sutton, MA 01590
> S/V Honey's Hope
> 1984 W25 #27
>
> From: watkins@yahoogroups .com [mailto:watkins@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf
Of
> hugh kominars
> Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 11:53 AM
> To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
> Subject: Re: [watkins] Cabin Lights
> I have a number remaining when i pulled and replaced - let me know = i
send
> if you cover shipping -
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
> From: Ronald <rjwoodward@ ... <mailto:rjwoodward% 40charter. net> >
> To: watkins@yahoogroups .com <mailto:watkins% 40yahoogroups. com>
> Sent: Fri, November 6, 2009 10:01:22 PM
> Subject: [watkins] Cabin Lights
>
>
> To All Captains,
>
> I'm trying to replace the lamp shades on the cabin lights. (12 VDC) I
can't
> find anything to replace the plastic tube they used as a shade. They are
> simple plastic cylinders that Watkins just cut and drilled to make an
> effective lamp. Translucent white, 2.5" by 4.5" and about a 1/16" side
wall.
> Can you think of anything I could use to replace? Really don't want to buy
> the $50 brass fancy pants lights.
>
> Thanks in Advance,
>
> RJ Woodward
> S/V Honey's Hope
> 1984 W25 #27
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]